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Arteta's loss is a massive blow ? no two ways about it. Gutted is the only word I could use when I saw him go off. But the blow was last week, there is nothing that can be done... we have a lot to play for and there is no reason we can not contuine are fine form. We are not a one-man team.
I fully agree, Arteta is instrumental in much of the good stuff this season, but this does not mean we will fall apart without him. The reason we are where we are is the team ethic that has been instilled, everyone works for each other.
Injuries have been a major issue this season; I don't know of any other club who could have achieved what we have with the injuries we have suffered, yet we are in the last 8 of the FA cup, and 6th in the leauge... not too shabby in my book.
All this after games against Liverpool, Arsenal, Man Utd, Chelsea & Villa ? we can look at the fixture list and be very optimistic of a good run of results.
The players available for Saturday's game with West Brom is good enough to win, and not just win, but out-play them. Osman, who has not hit form yet this season, is back... as is Pienaar, who on his day can be a real threat. Fellaini has talent, Rodwell has been a revelation, as has young Gosling. With Saha back, a solid back four, and players such as Jo, Neville and even Van der Meyde there, I am very positive of a good run-in to the end of the season!!
COYB!!
Si Harwood, Posted 26/02/2009 at 09:59:36
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Before last night’s match I was hoping that we would avoid the Hammers in the QF but now I’m not so sure. Boro despite their lowly league position look a difficult side to break down. That is the problem we are going to face between now and the end of the season. We may dominate games but will find it hard to score the goals that Arteta in the main supplied to the team.
I was confident that we would for the first time in Moyes’ tenure have a decent end to the season , but without Mikel pulling the strings we may just about hang on to our sixth place berth. On the other hand if the returning players find their best form quickly and apply themselves to the cause you never know. COYB
I was confident that we would for the first time in Moyes’ tenure have a decent end to the season , but without Mikel pulling the strings we may just about hang on to our sixth place berth. On the other hand if the returning players find their best form quickly and apply themselves to the cause you never know. COYB
good for you
Im glad we got Boro, I think we will be far too strong for them at home, and if I was to choose 1 of those two to play ’on their day’ it would be Boro!
It’s time for Fellaini to step up as a central midfielder.
That’s what we smashed our transfer record for, someone who can dictate the play from the centre of the pitch. Yes he’s done well supporting the attack in recent months, but it was his shortcomings in midfield what tempted Moyes into moving Arteta to the center.
It was understandable that Fell took time to settle, but nows the time for him to step up and West Brom at home is the perfect place to start!
That’s what we smashed our transfer record for, someone who can dictate the play from the centre of the pitch. Yes he’s done well supporting the attack in recent months, but it was his shortcomings in midfield what tempted Moyes into moving Arteta to the center.
It was understandable that Fell took time to settle, but nows the time for him to step up and West Brom at home is the perfect place to start!
Paul,
I wouldn’t say it was Fellaini’s short comings that tempted Moyes to put Arteta in there it was the whole team’s, including Arteta drifting around out wide.
While clearly Arteta was rejuvenated in the centre, it was also the fact that we stuck with him in the centre for a number of games. This gave the team some stability as prior to that point the selection for the middle of the park was all over the place.
You are right that he has done well in some matches playing in support of the front man, but for me Fellaini’s 2 stand out performances have been from central midfield.
The first was the second half against Utd at home when he was the best player on the pitch and the other was playing in CM alongside Arteta in the Villa league game. A match where we showed more dominance than we did in the much vaunted cup victory.
I’ve no doubts that once he recovers from playing with a cracked rib he will prove more than able in filling the CM role.
Of course we have to play slightly differently, as while Fellaini is technically sound, he doesn’t have the same natural game of linking up the play as Arteta does.
I still expect us to keep the ball on the deck, but there may be a more physically robust approach at the same time.
I think also the time has come for Pienaar to hopefully rediscover the form of last year.
He too has been hampered by injuries, right from before the first game, but hopefully he’s over those now.
A strong, robust CM in the shape of either Neville, Fellaini and Rodwell should be able to provide enough service to either Pienaar, Ossie, Gosling and maybe 5 mins of VDM.
With Cahill off either Jo or Saha we should have enough to beat the vast majority of our remaining opponents. Of course beating seriously good opponents will be very difficult, but then again, if your name’s on it......
COYB
I wouldn’t say it was Fellaini’s short comings that tempted Moyes to put Arteta in there it was the whole team’s, including Arteta drifting around out wide.
While clearly Arteta was rejuvenated in the centre, it was also the fact that we stuck with him in the centre for a number of games. This gave the team some stability as prior to that point the selection for the middle of the park was all over the place.
You are right that he has done well in some matches playing in support of the front man, but for me Fellaini’s 2 stand out performances have been from central midfield.
The first was the second half against Utd at home when he was the best player on the pitch and the other was playing in CM alongside Arteta in the Villa league game. A match where we showed more dominance than we did in the much vaunted cup victory.
I’ve no doubts that once he recovers from playing with a cracked rib he will prove more than able in filling the CM role.
Of course we have to play slightly differently, as while Fellaini is technically sound, he doesn’t have the same natural game of linking up the play as Arteta does.
I still expect us to keep the ball on the deck, but there may be a more physically robust approach at the same time.
I think also the time has come for Pienaar to hopefully rediscover the form of last year.
He too has been hampered by injuries, right from before the first game, but hopefully he’s over those now.
A strong, robust CM in the shape of either Neville, Fellaini and Rodwell should be able to provide enough service to either Pienaar, Ossie, Gosling and maybe 5 mins of VDM.
With Cahill off either Jo or Saha we should have enough to beat the vast majority of our remaining opponents. Of course beating seriously good opponents will be very difficult, but then again, if your name’s on it......
COYB
Like others I too am not as pessimistic as some. I believe we have 3 to 4 players who if they can stay fit and continue playing could help soften the blow of Arteta’s absence. Fellaini is possibly the key figure and is rightly mentioned by Gareth. I posted on another thread that Fellaini is one of only a few in the side excluding our defenders who can not only match the top opposition but outplay them. If he can regain his fitness and return to his rightful midfield birth he will give us all sorts of options. He’s a box to to box player and with Rodwell alongside him I believe they could be a great combination.
Cahill just behind Jo poses a real threat, its not just his ability to arrive late he is very good at holding up the play and showed a great understanding with Jo on his debut. I think these two will be a real handful. Pienaar has such quick feet and plays the ball so early if he and Jo can get on the same wavelength that relationship to could be very rewarding indeed.
Saha whom I’ve always rated very highly is not just a striker but an extremely talented footballer and has shown some wonderful touches but sadly breaks down all to often regrettably. I’m not sure how well he’d would link up with Jo. However he is quite versatile though and if we really do get stretched he could potentially be considered an option as a creative midfield player. If nothing else he’d certainly be a step up from Osman in that department.
Cahill just behind Jo poses a real threat, its not just his ability to arrive late he is very good at holding up the play and showed a great understanding with Jo on his debut. I think these two will be a real handful. Pienaar has such quick feet and plays the ball so early if he and Jo can get on the same wavelength that relationship to could be very rewarding indeed.
Saha whom I’ve always rated very highly is not just a striker but an extremely talented footballer and has shown some wonderful touches but sadly breaks down all to often regrettably. I’m not sure how well he’d would link up with Jo. However he is quite versatile though and if we really do get stretched he could potentially be considered an option as a creative midfield player. If nothing else he’d certainly be a step up from Osman in that department.
I don’t know why so many are broken hearted over Arteta. For the first time in years the lad strung together a couple of good games and all at once the mob howled for him to be picked by Spain. The mob did the same with Lescott and Jagielka for England and neither covered themselves with glory when that opportunity did arise.
Hibbert and even Osman have been touted as international candidates, usually after a few good performances.
In Artetas case he has never shown the consistency expected from a truly great player. there has been a tendency to over state his importance to the team effort. I wish I had a dollar for the times when he has needed to be more involved or stuffed up attacking opportunities.
Similarly the mighty Alex Young could go AWOL with little impact on some games.
Alex, unlike Mikel, would always turn it on against top sides.
Note the competition on which Martin O’Neil places his priority. If anything less than a top four spot.is not good enough for Villa it should definately not be good enough for Everton.
If we are to achieve that target it will be neccesary to demand from Mikel and a few others a higher and more consistent standard than what we have so far seen.
Hibbert and even Osman have been touted as international candidates, usually after a few good performances.
In Artetas case he has never shown the consistency expected from a truly great player. there has been a tendency to over state his importance to the team effort. I wish I had a dollar for the times when he has needed to be more involved or stuffed up attacking opportunities.
Similarly the mighty Alex Young could go AWOL with little impact on some games.
Alex, unlike Mikel, would always turn it on against top sides.
Note the competition on which Martin O’Neil places his priority. If anything less than a top four spot.is not good enough for Villa it should definately not be good enough for Everton.
If we are to achieve that target it will be neccesary to demand from Mikel and a few others a higher and more consistent standard than what we have so far seen.
Good post Dick.Spot on about Alex Young.I have to disagree on one point,however. Martin O’Neil does not prioritise ,he treats each game as a winnable game and ,therefore ,builds confidence in his squad.He was gutted when we put them out of the cup.
Leon Osman ,freshened after a break,must take on Arteta’s role.Otherwise David Moyes must be bold enough to give a chance to the second most gifted player at the club,yes,AVDM.
Leon Osman ,freshened after a break,must take on Arteta’s role.Otherwise David Moyes must be bold enough to give a chance to the second most gifted player at the club,yes,AVDM.
I have to say I disagree with your point Dick. I understand what your gettin at but Alex Young played with a better calibre of players i.e Roy Vernon, Tony Kay, Jimmy Gabriel etc.......
Mikel does not have the same sort of quality around him but I cant remember a game since he has moved back into the centre where he has not shown consistency
Mikel does not have the same sort of quality around him but I cant remember a game since he has moved back into the centre where he has not shown consistency
Dick - I think the reason why so many are "broken hearted" about the loss of Arteta is because he has been at the heart of all the good football we have played recently. He has been nothing short of majestic of late, and the fear is that the quality of football we will produce between now and the end of the season is going to suffer greatly.
Perhaps he’s not irreplacable, and I do believe we still have a team that can produce results, but whether you think Arteta is great or just good - you can’t mistake the fact that he is the heartbeat of this team.
Do we have a player to adequately fill his boots? I’m not so sure. I live in hope that someone will step up to the plate and take their opportunity to fill the void.
Expect a little less creativity, ingenuity, flair and carpet football from here on in. Unfortunately, Arteta is the main facilitator of this style of play. I really hate to say it, but I feel a little more "hoofball" coming soon to a football pitch near you!
Perhaps he’s not irreplacable, and I do believe we still have a team that can produce results, but whether you think Arteta is great or just good - you can’t mistake the fact that he is the heartbeat of this team.
Do we have a player to adequately fill his boots? I’m not so sure. I live in hope that someone will step up to the plate and take their opportunity to fill the void.
Expect a little less creativity, ingenuity, flair and carpet football from here on in. Unfortunately, Arteta is the main facilitator of this style of play. I really hate to say it, but I feel a little more "hoofball" coming soon to a football pitch near you!
I fear the same as you Jimmy that hoofball will very much be on the agenda from now on. Jo, Fellaini and Cahill all pose a big threat in the air (more so than with the ball at their feet in the latter 2’s cases) and I dont think Mr Moyes will even contemplate playing football.
That said, I cannot blame him if he does resort to this as it is results which matter now until the end of the season and not performances, with the only real playmaker injured it makes sense to resort to a system which has got results, although not pretty.
If we dabble with who could fill in here and who could play there before you know it 3 games have passed with 3 0-0’s. percentage hoofball is on it’s way guys.
That said, I cannot blame him if he does resort to this as it is results which matter now until the end of the season and not performances, with the only real playmaker injured it makes sense to resort to a system which has got results, although not pretty.
If we dabble with who could fill in here and who could play there before you know it 3 games have passed with 3 0-0’s. percentage hoofball is on it’s way guys.
Dick, I take your point about Arteta but the Arteta who flitted in an out of games was a winger. The Arteta who has been restored to his natural central midfield position is a totally different animal. I haven’t seen a midfield general in a blue shirt since Peter Reid. Arteta had become a midfield general, not just a ball winner like Carsley or Parkinson, but a genuine all round midfielder able to dictate a match & control the tempo. His loss is a disaster as we have no one remotely capable of filling the void. Hopefully we will adapt just like we have when losing all our strikers but I fear this is just one loss too many.
Andy Crooks, for Villas EUFA cup game O’Neil rested 8 first team regulars is that not a clear indication of what competition he considers to more important.
Sean McNally, I disagree that Young had a better class of team mates. Of those you mentioned only Kay was outstanding, the others were good but not that good.
Jimmy Rimmer, I agree with your sentiments about route 1 but if that is our only option why not develop it into a fine art. At the same time I cannot see Rodwell, Goose or Fellaini playing that way.
Sean McNally, I disagree that Young had a better class of team mates. Of those you mentioned only Kay was outstanding, the others were good but not that good.
Jimmy Rimmer, I agree with your sentiments about route 1 but if that is our only option why not develop it into a fine art. At the same time I cannot see Rodwell, Goose or Fellaini playing that way.
I have a scene of Arteta’s injury repeatedly playing in the back of my mind. Anyone who’s also suffer long term injuries from footie can relate: it’s a long and lonely road back to fitness, with a drop of uncertainty on whether he’ll ever be back 100% (shit happens).
IMHO Arteta does brings a more palatable style of play to our side and he’s irreplaceable in that dept. Nevertheless, we play to our strengths and that’s a solid back four, Neville marshalling in front of them, and Little and Large (Cahill, Fellaini) up front as are new terror duo. If we try to play through midfield (where are best midfielder is not playing!) we’re not forcing the opponents to play to our strengths and that is just plain daft.
IMHO Arteta does brings a more palatable style of play to our side and he’s irreplaceable in that dept. Nevertheless, we play to our strengths and that’s a solid back four, Neville marshalling in front of them, and Little and Large (Cahill, Fellaini) up front as are new terror duo. If we try to play through midfield (where are best midfielder is not playing!) we’re not forcing the opponents to play to our strengths and that is just plain daft.
Expect to be surprised how well Everton actually play without Arteta.
Other players cant hide, they will be in the spotlight and I think they will take the mantle and play better than you ever thought they could.
It's a great loss to lose Arteta, but a great, great opportunity for the younger players to express themselves and therefore improve to the benefit of the squad when injured players return
The future bright, the futures BLUE...
Other players cant hide, they will be in the spotlight and I think they will take the mantle and play better than you ever thought they could.
It's a great loss to lose Arteta, but a great, great opportunity for the younger players to express themselves and therefore improve to the benefit of the squad when injured players return
The future bright, the futures BLUE...
Does anybody know for sure whether Ossie & Peanuts are fit to play this weekend ?
I believe they are not (comments from Neville last week) - ’Osman and Pienaar should return within a few weeks’.
And not sure if Fella has recovered from a cracked back bone (or rib, depending on what you read).
I believe they are not (comments from Neville last week) - ’Osman and Pienaar should return within a few weeks’.
And not sure if Fella has recovered from a cracked back bone (or rib, depending on what you read).
While I agreed that Arteta’s level of consistency and skill level will never see him walk into the Top 4 teams, he is still our best player. And the fact that he has been playing winger(when it is obviously not his forte) and later central creative midfielder(with Osman as the only possible replacement) only highlights our lack of creative options in these areas. For the remaining games, I expect the team would become more defensive-minded, more hoofballs and more goal-less draws (and a few 1-0 wins, hopefully).
The loss of Arteta is a serious blow but not the end of our season by any stretch. I watched all of the Newcastle game on TV and despite the fact that we couldn’t break them down, I saw much to be encouraged by in the overall performance of the team.
We are now passing the ball across the back four and we moved forward with purpose.
I see nobody howled Andy Crooks down for suggesting that Andy Van Der Myde be given a chance. I think Andy is spot on - if I was Davey Moyes I would give him a start against West Brom. I’d put Fellaini in the middle and play Andy out wide on the right. With Saha and / or Jo up front and the True Blue back in the squad and Baines on the left side of the field I think we might see something very special.
We are now passing the ball across the back four and we moved forward with purpose.
I see nobody howled Andy Crooks down for suggesting that Andy Van Der Myde be given a chance. I think Andy is spot on - if I was Davey Moyes I would give him a start against West Brom. I’d put Fellaini in the middle and play Andy out wide on the right. With Saha and / or Jo up front and the True Blue back in the squad and Baines on the left side of the field I think we might see something very special.
I would beg to differ Laurie. As soon as Arteta went off the team lost a lot of its shape.
Yes we did pass the ball across the back four but there was no penetration and I would have to disagree that we moved forward with any sort of purpose. Mind you I may have missed the purposeful bit.
I would regard the result as points lost. We were playing ten men and did not show the necessary guile to open Newcastle up.
That is what happens when you lose your best player.
Yes we did pass the ball across the back four but there was no penetration and I would have to disagree that we moved forward with any sort of purpose. Mind you I may have missed the purposeful bit.
I would regard the result as points lost. We were playing ten men and did not show the necessary guile to open Newcastle up.
That is what happens when you lose your best player.
John Andrews is correct. We had no discernible shape or pattern of play against the Magpies; we lacked penetration and that final killer pass which puts the ball on a plate for the striker unlike the previous few games. I have to disagree with Dick. Young was supreme but prone to disappearing but he played with some great men; what about Vernon, Labone, Gabriel,Parker, Kay, Scott and the irrepressible Morrissey - great guys, great team. Talking of the loss of Arteta what would’nt I give for a Martin Dobson now !
John & Tony I may have to bow to men of greater footballing discernment than I:) However I could see something in the Newcastle performance and what I am suggesting is that now that Arteta is out if Moyes comes up with the correct mix from the players he has left we may all be surprised at the outcome. Having supported the blues since the early sixties two things a for sure - I always look for the best in them come what may and secondly as my dear old dad (God rest his soul) always told me - "we will be great again". It is great to see Johnny Morrisey getting the recognition he deserved in the recent posts. Footnote - who provided the killer pass to Dan Gosling in the game against the unmentionables :)
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1 Posted 26/02/2009 at 15:54:43
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Looking across to the right on this very site I think if we can consolidate 6th and keep the gap open between us and Wigan / Fulham and the Hammers I will take that.
I think we should be favourites to beat Boro in the cup but anything after that may be a step too far.
COYB