The Mail Bag
Hoofball is alive and kicking
Comments (77)
With Villa in freefall, I am so fucking angry at the negative, narrow, one-paced, predictable tactics employed once more by Moyes at Newcastle and Blackburn; two dire teams who were there for the taking. He is literally throwing away a fantastic opportunity to qualify for the Champions League.
Loyal and determined he may be but he is ultra-cautious and tactically inept. Don't blame the loss of Arteta on these recent abysmal performances as he was anonymous for the first half of this season and most of last year. Furthermore, the main reason we aren't conceding goals at present is because we normally have 9 men behind the ball for much of the game.
If he really wanted a top 4 place badly enough he should have thrown down the gauntlet against these poor teams and taken the initiative but as ever with Moyes, caution prevails and who said hoofball was a thing of the past? Totally pissed off.
Steve Ryan, Posted 04/03/2009 at 19:24:10
Comments
Note: the following content is not moderated or vetted by the site owners at the time of submission. Comments are the responsibility of the poster. Disclaimer
Michael Kenrick
Absolutely agree with you, Steve, that was painful in the extreme. Yes. Wiley had been suckered by Allardyce's "clever" pre-match bullshit but we were largely inept against another really poor side.
If Everton were a player they would be Leon Osman.
Terrific when in form but all too often disappointing when it counts.
Frequently failing to show up in big games especially against the Sky 4.
Moments of superb skill but also prone to sloppy play.
Never quite receiving the recogition deserved.
Prone to injuries.
Generally very good but just lacking that little bit extra to step up to great.
Yes, if Everton were a player they would be Osman. Let's just be thankful Everton aren't Jo...
Yawn!! Yawn!!
This is the same regurgitated, re-vomitted stuff over and over again.. So Moyes is inept and dour and horribly negative, he should go back to Oldham!!
But we are 6th (not great admittedly) inspite of a poor summer and start (some of which can e atributed to him, but a large part to the club) and a LOT of injuries to key players.. Todays match had Hibbert, Yakubu, Arteta, Felli, Vaughan, Saha (unfit), Victor, Valente all injured, with Rodwell, Osman and Peanuts just back friom injury.. No this in not an excuse for a performance like today but it does set the tone for this season!!
And all those guys who talk about Bolton and how we played against them, why on earth would Moyes become suddenly all hoofball-ish again.. Insipid.. So when the team plays well, its inspite of Moyes and when bad its because of Moyes!! How stupid is that.. And we played beautifully over the last 3-4 months, so shouldnt that mean thata MOyes and Round are coaching them to pass the ball around? Honestly some people like Kenrick know so much bout football it simply boggles my mind!!
Get in VDM why?? All he did in 3 years is float one cross in.. And that cross was not of too high a quality either (it had evaded all the attacking men like Cahill, Felli) and landed at Gosling,who used immense skill to dig it out and score.. Bring on Jacobsen.. WHAT THE FUCK!! How do we know if he can even run or is simply too soft for EPL.. Its insane this Moyes slagging!! Yes todays game was not good, poor infact but still we got an away point at Blackburn so it cant be too bad.. In Moyes I trust!!
This is the same regurgitated, re-vomitted stuff over and over again.. So Moyes is inept and dour and horribly negative, he should go back to Oldham!!
But we are 6th (not great admittedly) inspite of a poor summer and start (some of which can e atributed to him, but a large part to the club) and a LOT of injuries to key players.. Todays match had Hibbert, Yakubu, Arteta, Felli, Vaughan, Saha (unfit), Victor, Valente all injured, with Rodwell, Osman and Peanuts just back friom injury.. No this in not an excuse for a performance like today but it does set the tone for this season!!
And all those guys who talk about Bolton and how we played against them, why on earth would Moyes become suddenly all hoofball-ish again.. Insipid.. So when the team plays well, its inspite of Moyes and when bad its because of Moyes!! How stupid is that.. And we played beautifully over the last 3-4 months, so shouldnt that mean thata MOyes and Round are coaching them to pass the ball around? Honestly some people like Kenrick know so much bout football it simply boggles my mind!!
Get in VDM why?? All he did in 3 years is float one cross in.. And that cross was not of too high a quality either (it had evaded all the attacking men like Cahill, Felli) and landed at Gosling,who used immense skill to dig it out and score.. Bring on Jacobsen.. WHAT THE FUCK!! How do we know if he can even run or is simply too soft for EPL.. Its insane this Moyes slagging!! Yes todays game was not good, poor infact but still we got an away point at Blackburn so it cant be too bad.. In Moyes I trust!!
Varum, less of the insults you cretin. Every club gets injuries and our team last night was close to being our best eleven. This is not a knee jerk reaction; it's a case of not settling for second best as you appear to be doing. We should have wiped the floor with Newcastle and Blackburn and if Moyes had taken a more attacking approach (we are safe from relegation after all) we would have been 2 points behind Villa and above Arsenal. Unfortunately, because of his negative tactics that opprtunity has gone.
I’m sorry Steve, but I am with Varun on this one.
The quality of our football took a beating the moment Arteta’s knee popped, and it will not get any better soon.
You say Moyes is "ultra-cautious and tactically inept." I don’t know about tactics, so I will refrain from commenting upon it. But it’s not fair to say that Moyes was ultra-cautious: Saha did come on for the last 20 minutes in place of a defensive midfielder. This is something the Moyes of old wouldn’t dream of doing, not for an away game; I’ll venture to say that had Saha been fitter, he may have featured more heavily in the game.
This leads me to another point: Moyes’ hands are tied. I don’t fancy his position. He has a long injury list to contend with, and I give him credit for not moaning about the situation.
The quality of our football took a beating the moment Arteta’s knee popped, and it will not get any better soon.
You say Moyes is "ultra-cautious and tactically inept." I don’t know about tactics, so I will refrain from commenting upon it. But it’s not fair to say that Moyes was ultra-cautious: Saha did come on for the last 20 minutes in place of a defensive midfielder. This is something the Moyes of old wouldn’t dream of doing, not for an away game; I’ll venture to say that had Saha been fitter, he may have featured more heavily in the game.
This leads me to another point: Moyes’ hands are tied. I don’t fancy his position. He has a long injury list to contend with, and I give him credit for not moaning about the situation.
Stephen , I am in no way a Moyes apologist and indeed I have criticised him in the past for what you are accusing him of now. But come on mate, how many teams in the PL have lost a 20 goal striker and their most creative Midfield player? It would be bad enough losing just them 2 but we have had Vaughan and now Anichebe ruled out for long periods. Jo and Saha should not and would not be at Goodison in normal circumstances (you can blame the board for those 2 i.e. lack of real money). Everyone said at the start of the season that we had missed Carsley ,because we were shipping goals, Moyes reverts to what he knows works and since Man U at Goodison we have picked up points with great regularity - if not in the style that we would all like - we find ourselves in 6th place and in the QF of the FA Cup and many are still not happy!
Since Christmas we have taken an average of 1.9 points a game and beaten Liverpool and Villa in the cup.
Moyes has also stated that he was not happy with the performance or the result tonight so he is not unaware of the need for 3 points in these games.
SAF would have his managerial credentials severly tested given the spate of injuries we have suffered.
On the subject of the FA Cup who is to say that all 3 remaining Sky 4 teams will get to the Semis, each one of the ties has the potential for an upset. It could end up with Hull, Fulham, Coventry and us or Boro in the Draw on Sunday night and Leon might score the winner in our match.
Better take the rest of those tablets as I’m starting to hallucinate again.
Since Christmas we have taken an average of 1.9 points a game and beaten Liverpool and Villa in the cup.
Moyes has also stated that he was not happy with the performance or the result tonight so he is not unaware of the need for 3 points in these games.
SAF would have his managerial credentials severly tested given the spate of injuries we have suffered.
On the subject of the FA Cup who is to say that all 3 remaining Sky 4 teams will get to the Semis, each one of the ties has the potential for an upset. It could end up with Hull, Fulham, Coventry and us or Boro in the Draw on Sunday night and Leon might score the winner in our match.
Better take the rest of those tablets as I’m starting to hallucinate again.
I agree, it was a poor performance. And yes, it was very cautious. But I agree with that approach. We had 4 shots on target, which given the circumstances is not bad. On a different day, one or two would have gone in (a la West brom). Also another clean sheet away from home, against a side battling for their lives.
How can the loss of our best player, not be a justifiable reason for a lack of creative football? Look at Arsenal without Fabregas, Liverpool without Gerrard. I dont see how it is unacceptable the standard of football goes down, when your best player is out. This is without taking into account the loss of Yakubu, Hibbert, Vaughan & Anichebe, and the fact that so many of our players are playing with injuries. To say we are patched up even falls short of the reality. The squad is completely decimated. But to some, that cannot be used as an excuse for playing conservatively. I dont understand why people cannot take into account mitigating factors that dictate how effective our football is.
The only area where blame could possibly be attributed for me, is to the Fitness Department. Are we really just unlucky with injuries, or can some of them be avoided? I dont have enough knowledge to make a genuine assumption about it to be honest.
But I can speak for the team. And when you have a defence that has conceded only 5 goals in the last 17 matches (all of which scored by teams above us), it demonstrates that you have a team very hard to beat. Moyes now has a solid back four that will be there for a few years. Now if we can raise funds to buy a pedigree attacking playmaker and a decent winger, then my friends I think Moyes will have cracked it. I think everybody can see just how close we are now. The progress regarding raising the ability of the squad has been painfully slow, but the future seems so bright right now.
I have to completely disgaree with berating Moyes for not having the vision and ability to take this club forward. Until we have the ability to go forward and break teams down effectively, I fully support playing cautiously and picking up points away from home, and keeping clean sheets.
How can the loss of our best player, not be a justifiable reason for a lack of creative football? Look at Arsenal without Fabregas, Liverpool without Gerrard. I dont see how it is unacceptable the standard of football goes down, when your best player is out. This is without taking into account the loss of Yakubu, Hibbert, Vaughan & Anichebe, and the fact that so many of our players are playing with injuries. To say we are patched up even falls short of the reality. The squad is completely decimated. But to some, that cannot be used as an excuse for playing conservatively. I dont understand why people cannot take into account mitigating factors that dictate how effective our football is.
The only area where blame could possibly be attributed for me, is to the Fitness Department. Are we really just unlucky with injuries, or can some of them be avoided? I dont have enough knowledge to make a genuine assumption about it to be honest.
But I can speak for the team. And when you have a defence that has conceded only 5 goals in the last 17 matches (all of which scored by teams above us), it demonstrates that you have a team very hard to beat. Moyes now has a solid back four that will be there for a few years. Now if we can raise funds to buy a pedigree attacking playmaker and a decent winger, then my friends I think Moyes will have cracked it. I think everybody can see just how close we are now. The progress regarding raising the ability of the squad has been painfully slow, but the future seems so bright right now.
I have to completely disgaree with berating Moyes for not having the vision and ability to take this club forward. Until we have the ability to go forward and break teams down effectively, I fully support playing cautiously and picking up points away from home, and keeping clean sheets.
Osman. Osman, Osman, Osman... I simply cannot believe he is still a starter for us. Paperweight. That touch he had going back to goal looked like a schoolboy's (like Anichebe?s last season in a game I can?t recall who our opposition was).
Jo is just sad. (I pray he will get better with match play; not holding my breath).
Midfield is a shambles. No steel.
How?s Jacobsen not getting a run? He couldn?t be worse than Jags on the flank.
Yobo looks rusty (as you can imagine) had his thumb up his ass as Richards went on the break.
Moyes is a defensive genius but he is old school and in a game like this, A MUST WIN game, where we can keep up with Arsenal and put more pressure on Villa, you?ve got to go for it and TAKE it. We did not and now we can kiss away any hopes of Champions League.
Thanks Moyes... mwaaah!
Jo is just sad. (I pray he will get better with match play; not holding my breath).
Midfield is a shambles. No steel.
How?s Jacobsen not getting a run? He couldn?t be worse than Jags on the flank.
Yobo looks rusty (as you can imagine) had his thumb up his ass as Richards went on the break.
Moyes is a defensive genius but he is old school and in a game like this, A MUST WIN game, where we can keep up with Arsenal and put more pressure on Villa, you?ve got to go for it and TAKE it. We did not and now we can kiss away any hopes of Champions League.
Thanks Moyes... mwaaah!
Our team was close to the best??? Are you kidding me?? Without Yakubu, Arteta, Hibbert, a fit Felli and Saha.. Hoow can that be our best 11?
Again why do we presume its his negative tactics, so he says play beautifully against Bolton, Boro, Pool, Arsenal and suddenly discovers oh shoot, we must play HOOFBALL!!! We simply lacked that midfielder who will link with the defenders. Rodwell is learning, Neville is not good at that. So whom does he replace them with?? Castillo? Who else? I am again not defending a poor game, but why should we slag off our team at the first available chance. Can't it also be put down to tired players, mentally fatigued or so many other reasons. I know they are paid to win games, but they are also human. They might be simply too tired!!
Finally can't it simply be that we lack that class to break a dogged midfield? Just as teams play against the Big 4.
Again why do we presume its his negative tactics, so he says play beautifully against Bolton, Boro, Pool, Arsenal and suddenly discovers oh shoot, we must play HOOFBALL!!! We simply lacked that midfielder who will link with the defenders. Rodwell is learning, Neville is not good at that. So whom does he replace them with?? Castillo? Who else? I am again not defending a poor game, but why should we slag off our team at the first available chance. Can't it also be put down to tired players, mentally fatigued or so many other reasons. I know they are paid to win games, but they are also human. They might be simply too tired!!
Finally can't it simply be that we lack that class to break a dogged midfield? Just as teams play against the Big 4.
Chris are you in La-la land.. Midfield has no steel??? We have not conceded in 4 game, how can our midfield be lacking steel? We may not have the creativity but IMHO that is down more to players or lack of fit players..
Jo is slow and sad, but he is on loan... Saha is not fit, others are injured, so he is doing a good job filling in... And we did not create any chances for him to finish off, so why slag him?
Yes, Yobo is rusty and useless, but we didn't concede, so he did his job overall, didn't he? Finally, how the HELL do you know that Lars is better than Jags, have you ever seen him play?? Insane TWer's fascination with our fringe squad...
Jo is slow and sad, but he is on loan... Saha is not fit, others are injured, so he is doing a good job filling in... And we did not create any chances for him to finish off, so why slag him?
Yes, Yobo is rusty and useless, but we didn't concede, so he did his job overall, didn't he? Finally, how the HELL do you know that Lars is better than Jags, have you ever seen him play?? Insane TWer's fascination with our fringe squad...
Varun my friend, fine we haven?t conceded in 4 but we were bossed in the middle of the park and that was the difference in the game IMO. The best spell we had was when we brought on Saha. We had about a 90 second boost where we actually looked like a team.
Listen, we didn?t concede so we didn?t lose, fine. But where was the driving force going forwards? There was nothing, no imagination and way too often we resort to this type of football which keeps us in the top half of the table but not pushing the top 4 like we should be at this point. I was just hoping Moyes evolved a little after 7 years, maybe not.
Of course I love what he?s done with the team but these types of games are the one?s that we need to keep the ball on the floor and out class them and show them who?s the better squad. When we did that (for about 10 minutes out of 90) we were the superior side.
And please don?t say Jo?s doing a good job filling in. He looks like a silly toothpick jogging around while other?s work their asses off. And enough with the claps to teammates when you fucked up a good ball, I saw enough of that with AJ! (I won?t even mention that pass/shot/dribbler to the goalie.) 18 million pounds? Really?
And finally, why are we accommodating Yobo?s return when we have a Danish international on the bench who could play in his natural position? (thus moving jags from his position) You and me as center backs could?ve kept them out today. They are pathetic. But not as pathetic as the offensive display we put on.
Which team are we? I ask that because sometimes we play with inspiration and purpose and sometimes we play with hoof.
Listen, we didn?t concede so we didn?t lose, fine. But where was the driving force going forwards? There was nothing, no imagination and way too often we resort to this type of football which keeps us in the top half of the table but not pushing the top 4 like we should be at this point. I was just hoping Moyes evolved a little after 7 years, maybe not.
Of course I love what he?s done with the team but these types of games are the one?s that we need to keep the ball on the floor and out class them and show them who?s the better squad. When we did that (for about 10 minutes out of 90) we were the superior side.
And please don?t say Jo?s doing a good job filling in. He looks like a silly toothpick jogging around while other?s work their asses off. And enough with the claps to teammates when you fucked up a good ball, I saw enough of that with AJ! (I won?t even mention that pass/shot/dribbler to the goalie.) 18 million pounds? Really?
And finally, why are we accommodating Yobo?s return when we have a Danish international on the bench who could play in his natural position? (thus moving jags from his position) You and me as center backs could?ve kept them out today. They are pathetic. But not as pathetic as the offensive display we put on.
Which team are we? I ask that because sometimes we play with inspiration and purpose and sometimes we play with hoof.
Usual completely unrealistic nonsense. We are missing key players and probably have at least half the team on the pitch carrying injuries or not match fit. We are also playing against sides desperately fighting to stay up - not teams who are "there for the taking" (a[apart from the spineless West Brom perhaps).
The only real point to make about last night is: our squad is far too small to consistently compete at the level we are competing at. Apart from that, we are struggling on and keep getting points. Get real.
The only real point to make about last night is: our squad is far too small to consistently compete at the level we are competing at. Apart from that, we are struggling on and keep getting points. Get real.
Varun the reason we haven’t conceded in last four games has been down to Lescott and Jagielka defending as centre halves and when that pairing is changed down to the woodwork and Tim Howard. If the team can’t keep hold of the ball in midfield it’s only got one direction to go; right back at Howard.
Explain the "positive" of why Everton for every set piece for the last god knows how many years have 11 men in our own box? If a ball is cleared then 9 times out of 10 it’s again coming right back again, that defensive mentality is down to the manager and coach. The buck stops with them.
A lot of ifs and buts and far too much hoofball meant the midfield last night was pointless, it was evident in Jo’s second game he is useless as a target man for hoofball yet we still play it - again dont tell me that is down to the players and not Moyes.
Explain the "positive" of why Everton for every set piece for the last god knows how many years have 11 men in our own box? If a ball is cleared then 9 times out of 10 it’s again coming right back again, that defensive mentality is down to the manager and coach. The buck stops with them.
A lot of ifs and buts and far too much hoofball meant the midfield last night was pointless, it was evident in Jo’s second game he is useless as a target man for hoofball yet we still play it - again dont tell me that is down to the players and not Moyes.
Gavin - we have only one player who can "consistently keep hold of the ball in midfield": Mikel Arteta. That is is the dreadful truth. Now, maybe Moyes should have signed up more Mikels and he deserves criticism for that. But expecting Rodwell, Neville, Osman and Pienaar to play a sharp midfield passing game (especially with no fit strikers to aim at) - just not realistic.
Anyway, the one team we played recently who play a nice passing game - West Brom - we beat. And they are losing to everyone. The two who play with more defensive organisation and play hoofball - Newcastle and Blackburn - we couldn’t beat. Go figure.
Anyway, the one team we played recently who play a nice passing game - West Brom - we beat. And they are losing to everyone. The two who play with more defensive organisation and play hoofball - Newcastle and Blackburn - we couldn’t beat. Go figure.
With Arteta gone we desperately need other ball players to step up.
That being the case then lord save us if we have to rely on little Leon Osman plus little and even punier Pienaar.
Neither of them can kick a hole in a wet Echo or keep their feet when an opponent is anywhere in their vicinity.
Shamefully, I found myself hoping that Leon’s injury was not serious yet sufficient to require a sub.
Fellaini may have his share of critics but he is years younger, not fully fit and unlike the other two, gets into the thick of things.
That being the case then lord save us if we have to rely on little Leon Osman plus little and even punier Pienaar.
Neither of them can kick a hole in a wet Echo or keep their feet when an opponent is anywhere in their vicinity.
Shamefully, I found myself hoping that Leon’s injury was not serious yet sufficient to require a sub.
Fellaini may have his share of critics but he is years younger, not fully fit and unlike the other two, gets into the thick of things.
Yes we were poor - but I can’t help feeling that if we beat Boro half of the moaning gits here will log in under different names and sing Moyes’ praises. We don’t lack steel ... Neville, Rodwell and the entire back four are solid enough... we just need to start passing accurately and holding the ball when challenged - too many players are easily ’bumped off’ ... Osman, Fellaini, Jo, Pienaar, Gosling ... I just hope Saha can start against Boro ... with Fellaini and Cahill just behind and Osman and Pienaar out wide we may pose more of a threat... stop whining - one loss in 16 games isn’t the worst run of form... COYB... all the way to Wembley!!
Another thread slagging off Yobo! It’s amazing - the guy is top class for 6 and a half seasons, then he gets injured, Jags and Lescott form an amazing partnership and suddenly he’s useless!
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again: Yobo is a much better player than Jags or Lescott will ever be. Unfortunately his lack of concentration and mental aptitude mean that he is prone to the odd blunder. And no doubt, Jags’s form this season has been superb - he is our player of the year, no question. But how people can slag Moyes off for bringing in someone who has been virtually rock solid ever since he came to the club is beyond me!
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again: Yobo is a much better player than Jags or Lescott will ever be. Unfortunately his lack of concentration and mental aptitude mean that he is prone to the odd blunder. And no doubt, Jags’s form this season has been superb - he is our player of the year, no question. But how people can slag Moyes off for bringing in someone who has been virtually rock solid ever since he came to the club is beyond me!
This was on the cards...two defensive midfielders in the centre of the park..splitting the centre half partnership up to put jags at righ back where he is useless...
and don’t get me started on Osman...
At least Pienaar was trying but he continues to concede possession far too easily.
All in all...pish poor, but expected.
and don’t get me started on Osman...
At least Pienaar was trying but he continues to concede possession far too easily.
All in all...pish poor, but expected.
My only comment about last night is what the F...k do we see in Rodwell, he is not a midfielder and never will be.
Moyes following the West Brom game stated he knew what Evertojn needed to do to sort out the problem of Arteta, I knew what he meant immediatly, it was Rodwell playing a simple passing game in midfield, to which he shown last night he was not capable of.
Please someone tell me whta I am missing with this kid as its not blindingly obvious.
Dont throw age or fitness at me as that is utter bollocks, good enough , old enough if your playing then your fit, if not stay at home.
Everton’s problems lie clearly in the central midfield, the defense play hoofball because no one in midfield is coming to them and asking for the ball, we need a rethink and part of that answer is to revert with what we have available to 451 for the rest of the season as I can see no other formation that will work for us.
Moyes following the West Brom game stated he knew what Evertojn needed to do to sort out the problem of Arteta, I knew what he meant immediatly, it was Rodwell playing a simple passing game in midfield, to which he shown last night he was not capable of.
Please someone tell me whta I am missing with this kid as its not blindingly obvious.
Dont throw age or fitness at me as that is utter bollocks, good enough , old enough if your playing then your fit, if not stay at home.
Everton’s problems lie clearly in the central midfield, the defense play hoofball because no one in midfield is coming to them and asking for the ball, we need a rethink and part of that answer is to revert with what we have available to 451 for the rest of the season as I can see no other formation that will work for us.
Paul, can’t believe you really believe your comments on Rodwell. He was - I think - the youngest player on the pitch last night and showed more composure than virtually anyone else. As far as Jo is concerned if he does’nt getthe service he won’t score. Simple really ain’t it ?
Playing hoofball is one of the worst things you can do against Blackburn, and the really disappointing part about it is that it didn’t suprise me at all..
For a 5 minute period when Saha came on and Cahill dropped to centre midfield we played some decent football on the floor... but then we just start bypassing the midfield again. Why can’t the players, and more importantly Moyes, see this!?
For a 5 minute period when Saha came on and Cahill dropped to centre midfield we played some decent football on the floor... but then we just start bypassing the midfield again. Why can’t the players, and more importantly Moyes, see this!?
I knew this morning that there would be lots of comments along the lines of ’injuries, good away point, in moyes we trust etc etc’ which to be fair i’m a little tired of now.
Yes I acknowledge that the loss of Arteta has blown a huge hole in our creativity but there have been a couple of games now that have been there for the taking and Moyes has failed in creating the environment for them to be taken!!! It seems to me that he has no idea how to change a game that appears to be a stalemate after 60-70 minutes. He is an example, towards the end of the second half last night we were getting some very good possession and progress down the left flank with Pienaar and Baines working very nicely indeed. The Sky team suggested that the half time break came at the wrong time for us because we were building up that momentum. Osman on the right, on the other hand, had yet another absolute stinker and I think everyone saw this. So what does Moyes do? He switches Osman and Pienaar (something he regularly used to do with Arteta and Pienaar, his only tactical switch?) which has the effect of completely nullifying Baines as an attacking force!!! Osman kept coming inside leaving Baines exposed and he hardly got forward in the second half. Pienaar played okay on the right but why not leave him on the left and bring on Gosling to play right? It didn’t need to be VDM although it wouldn’t have hurt for twenty mins would it? Why have a bench if you are not going to use it? You want to strive for 4th then try SOMETHING?
West Ham are 6 points behinds us right now with the other teams very close to that. I would hate for us to settle for these cheap away points and lose 6th or even go out of the cup.
Yes I acknowledge that the loss of Arteta has blown a huge hole in our creativity but there have been a couple of games now that have been there for the taking and Moyes has failed in creating the environment for them to be taken!!! It seems to me that he has no idea how to change a game that appears to be a stalemate after 60-70 minutes. He is an example, towards the end of the second half last night we were getting some very good possession and progress down the left flank with Pienaar and Baines working very nicely indeed. The Sky team suggested that the half time break came at the wrong time for us because we were building up that momentum. Osman on the right, on the other hand, had yet another absolute stinker and I think everyone saw this. So what does Moyes do? He switches Osman and Pienaar (something he regularly used to do with Arteta and Pienaar, his only tactical switch?) which has the effect of completely nullifying Baines as an attacking force!!! Osman kept coming inside leaving Baines exposed and he hardly got forward in the second half. Pienaar played okay on the right but why not leave him on the left and bring on Gosling to play right? It didn’t need to be VDM although it wouldn’t have hurt for twenty mins would it? Why have a bench if you are not going to use it? You want to strive for 4th then try SOMETHING?
West Ham are 6 points behinds us right now with the other teams very close to that. I would hate for us to settle for these cheap away points and lose 6th or even go out of the cup.
I have my fair share of criticising Moyes in previous games. This round I find it harsh to fault him given the dire situation. Most critical posts can’t even offer suggestions on who else to play. Lets hope for the best.
Given injuries squad size options and fitness, plus the start we had to the season where do we think we will finish this campaign ?
Option 1 - 4th for that we would have to make up 8 points on Villa and Arsenal in the last 10 games, possible but doubtful except with all out attack almost caution to the wind.
Option 2- 7th for that we would have to drop 7 points again possible but doubtful except with all out attack caution to the wind.
Option 3-6th Set up for not losing first , be ultra cautious settle for a point per game and hope for a win if possible, this is the most likely option and ensures we are in europe next season .
I for one would love to be competing in the champions league next year but realistically our squad size and in truth our bench says we couldn’t do it .
So back to the blackburn game , a team that has beat us twice this season home and away, a team that ANYBODY who knows football and big sam will be very hard to break down, a team scrapping for premiership survival and we’re away. A point was ok, with options available we didn’t look worth the 3 points and where outmuscled in the centre , 3 little uns and a kid, and in slowjo a player who’s 2nd touch is always a tackle, our biggest ? threat was Baines, Peanuts hasn’t got a final ball . Defense fine as always, crap game but a point away.
Option 1 - 4th for that we would have to make up 8 points on Villa and Arsenal in the last 10 games, possible but doubtful except with all out attack almost caution to the wind.
Option 2- 7th for that we would have to drop 7 points again possible but doubtful except with all out attack caution to the wind.
Option 3-6th Set up for not losing first , be ultra cautious settle for a point per game and hope for a win if possible, this is the most likely option and ensures we are in europe next season .
I for one would love to be competing in the champions league next year but realistically our squad size and in truth our bench says we couldn’t do it .
So back to the blackburn game , a team that has beat us twice this season home and away, a team that ANYBODY who knows football and big sam will be very hard to break down, a team scrapping for premiership survival and we’re away. A point was ok, with options available we didn’t look worth the 3 points and where outmuscled in the centre , 3 little uns and a kid, and in slowjo a player who’s 2nd touch is always a tackle, our biggest ? threat was Baines, Peanuts hasn’t got a final ball . Defense fine as always, crap game but a point away.
Here’s a thought....
Could we afford to compete in the champions league next year?
After all - certain people would have to be seen to be providing some funds for a champions league campaign if it had actually happened..
Now it isn;t going to happen ..im sure certain people are breathing a huge sigh of relief!
By the way before anyone starts this is not a grassy knoll conspiracy theory.
Could we afford to compete in the champions league next year?
After all - certain people would have to be seen to be providing some funds for a champions league campaign if it had actually happened..
Now it isn;t going to happen ..im sure certain people are breathing a huge sigh of relief!
By the way before anyone starts this is not a grassy knoll conspiracy theory.
The weekend had us 10 points off Villa, now we’re 7. Fine by me... though I only saw the MOTD highlights so wasn’t subjected to this performance for too long.
Why was VDM not brought on for a final 10 minutes?? If Moyes doesn;t like him, why put him on the bench?
Why was VDM not brought on for a final 10 minutes?? If Moyes doesn;t like him, why put him on the bench?
How can you have a sensible football debate when in the opening piece he says "Don’t blame the loss of Arteta on these recent abysmal performances"??
Why? He is the sole reason our notoriously hoofball orientated defenders (yobo/hibbert/jag/Nev) have started passing the ball!! because they trust him with the ball and he starts almost ALL of our passing moves.
Its as simple as this, we know with a full strength side we are a good team, we are a good team even missing certain players but he is without a doubt the biggest loss our team could suffer.
But saying that, no-one is bigger than the team and we have seen bigger and btter players come and go before, DM just needs to find a way to win games without him to sustain our momentum till end of season. I dont care if we hoof it, pass it or any other variation on the game as long as we win some or most of our upcoming games.
Why? He is the sole reason our notoriously hoofball orientated defenders (yobo/hibbert/jag/Nev) have started passing the ball!! because they trust him with the ball and he starts almost ALL of our passing moves.
Its as simple as this, we know with a full strength side we are a good team, we are a good team even missing certain players but he is without a doubt the biggest loss our team could suffer.
But saying that, no-one is bigger than the team and we have seen bigger and btter players come and go before, DM just needs to find a way to win games without him to sustain our momentum till end of season. I dont care if we hoof it, pass it or any other variation on the game as long as we win some or most of our upcoming games.
This was a tricky game, and one that even when we played crap, we still got a point. Over the last 2 games we have narrowed the gap to fourth from 10 points to 7, and that is likely to be further reduced in the next 3 games when we take on Stoke, Portsmouth and Wigan as opposed to Tottenham, Liverpool and Man U. A little patience is required here.
Just to pre-empt a question.....if I was in charge! (ha ha)
I would drop one of the two defensive midfielders, probably Rodwell and bring Fellaini back to play in a more advanced midfield role. I would persist with Peanuts and Ossie down the sides. I would also reunite Jags & Lescott in the middle and give Lars his chance at right back, I’m a bit cheesed off that MOyes has broken that partnership up through Loyalty to Yobo. The front role is Saha’s if fit for the time being.
I would drop one of the two defensive midfielders, probably Rodwell and bring Fellaini back to play in a more advanced midfield role. I would persist with Peanuts and Ossie down the sides. I would also reunite Jags & Lescott in the middle and give Lars his chance at right back, I’m a bit cheesed off that MOyes has broken that partnership up through Loyalty to Yobo. The front role is Saha’s if fit for the time being.
Andy, in the same way you "knew" there would be the ready made excuses I "knew" there would be regulars doing the rounds with overused "tactically inept" and "too defensive" comments.
We had 6 defenders on the pitch "due to injuries" and a defensive midfielder coming on in Fellaini.
I would love to see the great flowing football we have witnessed of late but guess what our rosetta stone, Arteta, is not playing and surprise surprise we are no longer passing it well through the middle of the park, hence the Rhinoesque passes from Pip and the triple teaming of Pienaar, our only other really skillful player.
The "ready made excuses" are valid....this time.
As that now infamous news article once said, "You can throw glitter on a turd but it will still be a turd"
We had 6 defenders on the pitch "due to injuries" and a defensive midfielder coming on in Fellaini.
I would love to see the great flowing football we have witnessed of late but guess what our rosetta stone, Arteta, is not playing and surprise surprise we are no longer passing it well through the middle of the park, hence the Rhinoesque passes from Pip and the triple teaming of Pienaar, our only other really skillful player.
The "ready made excuses" are valid....this time.
As that now infamous news article once said, "You can throw glitter on a turd but it will still be a turd"
Fellaini? A defensive midfielder?
Got any evidence for that assessment?
Other than Fellaini saying it?
The ready made excuses are not valid. Because that suggests that the players on show last night cannot play any better...Which is simply not true.
It was a piss poor perfomance by the players on the pitch...and injuries to players who are not on the pitch is utterly irrelevant. End of story.
Got any evidence for that assessment?
Other than Fellaini saying it?
The ready made excuses are not valid. Because that suggests that the players on show last night cannot play any better...Which is simply not true.
It was a piss poor perfomance by the players on the pitch...and injuries to players who are not on the pitch is utterly irrelevant. End of story.
Varun, why would Moyes go "back to Oldham" ? Has he been there before?
We aren’t Man U and we can’t win every game. Simple as. Sometimes we’ll play shit and we should accept it.
My main criticism is Moyes signing that fucking waste of space Fellaini, that is why we’re lacking creativity.
My main criticism is Moyes signing that fucking waste of space Fellaini, that is why we’re lacking creativity.
It was a truly dreadful game. Losing Arteta and our entire forward line has made us toothless but we should try to compensate and I believe we do have the players to at least get back to playing half decent football.
Playing hoofball to a) Jo who is useless at it and b) two giant Blackburn central defenders is just plain stupid. And playing Jags at right back when he is blatantly crap going forward there is just bad managerial skills.
So the team I would have picked yesterday is:
Howard
Neville - Jags - Lescott - Baines
Gosling - Rodwell - Osman - Pienaar
Fellaini
Cahill
Havent bothered with Lars as Moyes obviously doesn’t rate him. If he did would put him at right back and put Neville in place of Fellaini, so pushing Osman further up the pitch. This all means that people are playing in their natural positions and Osman is not out on the wings where he is crap. Put him in the centre and if he is rubbish you have the choice of Fellaini (who I definitely think is playing with an injury - he looks a lot less mobile that earlier in the season).
Yeah we have got injuries and any team would struggle losing their top play maker and striker. But that doesn’t mean we cant get the maximum out of what we have left. and can we honestly say that we have done that over the last number of games?
Playing hoofball to a) Jo who is useless at it and b) two giant Blackburn central defenders is just plain stupid. And playing Jags at right back when he is blatantly crap going forward there is just bad managerial skills.
So the team I would have picked yesterday is:
Howard
Neville - Jags - Lescott - Baines
Gosling - Rodwell - Osman - Pienaar
Fellaini
Cahill
Havent bothered with Lars as Moyes obviously doesn’t rate him. If he did would put him at right back and put Neville in place of Fellaini, so pushing Osman further up the pitch. This all means that people are playing in their natural positions and Osman is not out on the wings where he is crap. Put him in the centre and if he is rubbish you have the choice of Fellaini (who I definitely think is playing with an injury - he looks a lot less mobile that earlier in the season).
Yeah we have got injuries and any team would struggle losing their top play maker and striker. But that doesn’t mean we cant get the maximum out of what we have left. and can we honestly say that we have done that over the last number of games?
’Go back to Oldham’ Varun? That lends credibility to your posts doesn’t it?
"and injuries to players who are not on the pitch is utterly irrelevant. End of story"
There really is nothing much I can say after that, may aswell try and talk to an orange. Of course it is relevant. The easy pass to Arteta to allow our team to move forward has gone, the players panic and hoof it. It is simple, if no-one shows for the ball what do defensive minded players do? Get rid.
So therefore the injured players...who are not playing, make one hell of a difference and therefore are entirely relevant.
Injuries effect teams morale and the way they, it’s not rocket science.
If you watched the game last night it was easy to see that when our next most skillful player Pienaar received the ball he has three players around him, even Arteta wouldn’t have been able to do much with that kind of marking.
We played poorly and will continue to do so until we either have a) Arteta back or b) A replacement that is as good as him.
It’s a terrible thing to admit our team is not as good as we wished it was but simple fact is that Arteta was the linchpin of our mid season recovery but he is now gone.
There really is nothing much I can say after that, may aswell try and talk to an orange. Of course it is relevant. The easy pass to Arteta to allow our team to move forward has gone, the players panic and hoof it. It is simple, if no-one shows for the ball what do defensive minded players do? Get rid.
So therefore the injured players...who are not playing, make one hell of a difference and therefore are entirely relevant.
Injuries effect teams morale and the way they, it’s not rocket science.
If you watched the game last night it was easy to see that when our next most skillful player Pienaar received the ball he has three players around him, even Arteta wouldn’t have been able to do much with that kind of marking.
We played poorly and will continue to do so until we either have a) Arteta back or b) A replacement that is as good as him.
It’s a terrible thing to admit our team is not as good as we wished it was but simple fact is that Arteta was the linchpin of our mid season recovery but he is now gone.
The thing is, we won’t concede many so we’ll nearly always be heading for a nil-nil. The hope is we nick one and win 1-0. This may yet see us climb the table and challenge 4th or even win the cup.
Tony Williams talks the most sense and it’s totally unrealistic to expect anything else.
Tony Williams talks the most sense and it’s totally unrealistic to expect anything else.
Tony,
I’ll explain it slowly so you might grasp the point...INJURIES TO PLAYERS WHO ARE NOT ON THE PITCH, HAS ABSOLUELY NO BEARING ON THE PERFORMANCES OF THOSE WHO ACTUALLY ARE ON THE PITCH...
Do you understand?
I’ll explain it slowly so you might grasp the point...INJURIES TO PLAYERS WHO ARE NOT ON THE PITCH, HAS ABSOLUELY NO BEARING ON THE PERFORMANCES OF THOSE WHO ACTUALLY ARE ON THE PITCH...
Do you understand?
I don’t see why we did not launch a full out attack on both Newcastle and Blackburn, surely we could have won at least one game out of the two, so we would have been at least one point better off. I agree to a certain extent in that DM’s cover bet, is he would rather not lose than play open expansive football. We are crying out for some pace down either wing and a midfield general who can grab a game by the scruff of the neck and drive us forward, more of last night to come till the end of season. We have been unlucky with injuries but now is not the time to start bickering, lets get behind the boys and drive us into Europe. Away fans have been correct Goodison this year has been quieter than a church!
Have to agree with Nick Dommett’s team suggestion, and would imagine that will be the starting line up on Sunday.
Who’d have thought we would all be really missing Tony Hibbert as an attacking force! Jags should only be played at centre half, or he will be in danger of losing the player of the year title to Cahill.
If Gosling starts, it also gives Moyes less options as legs get tired. This is the time VDM could be effective, and may see him given a chance to put one of his famous crosses in.
All in all, last night was an abysmal game, as I think we all expected it to be. Whoever picks the Sky games should be for the high jump, as I dont see the Portsmouth game being any different.
Who’d have thought we would all be really missing Tony Hibbert as an attacking force! Jags should only be played at centre half, or he will be in danger of losing the player of the year title to Cahill.
If Gosling starts, it also gives Moyes less options as legs get tired. This is the time VDM could be effective, and may see him given a chance to put one of his famous crosses in.
All in all, last night was an abysmal game, as I think we all expected it to be. Whoever picks the Sky games should be for the high jump, as I dont see the Portsmouth game being any different.
I was at the game last night sitting with the home fans beside the Everton Dugout.
A highly frustrating evening, however throughout the game Moyes was contstantly telling Howard and the Defence to launch the ball forward and bypass the midfield. He must have spent half the game pointing high and forward.
Yes the midfield was missing Arteta but when we actually got it down we looked much the better side. Unfortunately too little and too infrequently.
And Wiley , to be fair, was awful to both sides. His only consistency was that he gave every decision to one side over the other for about 10 minutes then gave every decision to the other for 10 minutes.
At least ’Boro will be down after their defeat last night so the Cup semi is beckoning. COYB.
A highly frustrating evening, however throughout the game Moyes was contstantly telling Howard and the Defence to launch the ball forward and bypass the midfield. He must have spent half the game pointing high and forward.
Yes the midfield was missing Arteta but when we actually got it down we looked much the better side. Unfortunately too little and too infrequently.
And Wiley , to be fair, was awful to both sides. His only consistency was that he gave every decision to one side over the other for about 10 minutes then gave every decision to the other for 10 minutes.
At least ’Boro will be down after their defeat last night so the Cup semi is beckoning. COYB.
Ciaran, I will explain it more slowly to get past that ingrained stubborness of yours. Injuries of influential players DO effect the psyche of players and those around them.
Hibbert will not look the same player when he comes back, as he doesn’t have Arteta showing for the short pass and therefore route one footy again from Tony.
Pip will believe that he will have to be more creative, like when it was him and Cars, hence the Rhinoesque floating balls to no-one yesterday.
Pienaar will be looked at to carry the torch and will try more but as last night shown he will be double or sometimes tripled marked.
The defence will not have anyone showing for the ball from then, next thing HOOF.
That is just one player missing, you then add no forwards and injured players having to step up to play.
As I said not rocket science and it is, as shown above, completely relevant to the way a team plays.
Look at Arsenal without Fabregas, Liverpool without Torres and Gerrard, Chelsea without Drogba and Essien.
Slow enough for you?
Hibbert will not look the same player when he comes back, as he doesn’t have Arteta showing for the short pass and therefore route one footy again from Tony.
Pip will believe that he will have to be more creative, like when it was him and Cars, hence the Rhinoesque floating balls to no-one yesterday.
Pienaar will be looked at to carry the torch and will try more but as last night shown he will be double or sometimes tripled marked.
The defence will not have anyone showing for the ball from then, next thing HOOF.
That is just one player missing, you then add no forwards and injured players having to step up to play.
As I said not rocket science and it is, as shown above, completely relevant to the way a team plays.
Look at Arsenal without Fabregas, Liverpool without Torres and Gerrard, Chelsea without Drogba and Essien.
Slow enough for you?
Yobo is guilty of the long ball we all hate - immediately conceding possession.
But whos decision was it to switch him for Jags?
Why is Osman getting a shirt?
Why is Van der meyde never getting a run out?
Why won’t Jo be given more support - he can’t play the lone striker!
Question Moyes will never answer I’m afriad.
Villa effectively gained two points on us last night, and Arsenal 3.
But whos decision was it to switch him for Jags?
Why is Osman getting a shirt?
Why is Van der meyde never getting a run out?
Why won’t Jo be given more support - he can’t play the lone striker!
Question Moyes will never answer I’m afriad.
Villa effectively gained two points on us last night, and Arsenal 3.
Oh right, so the bad performances last night are not actually the players fault....as you can conveniently absolve them of their individually bad performances with a clever reference to players who are not on the pitch...
There may be a case for a slight case for an effect on team moral, which is where Moyes comes in...There is certainly NOT the case for absolving players of their abysmal performances on this basis.
Whether you repeat this slowly or quickly it is nothing but excuse making.
Those players on the pitch last night can play a hell of a lot better. They didn’t. Simple really.
There may be a case for a slight case for an effect on team moral, which is where Moyes comes in...There is certainly NOT the case for absolving players of their abysmal performances on this basis.
Whether you repeat this slowly or quickly it is nothing but excuse making.
Those players on the pitch last night can play a hell of a lot better. They didn’t. Simple really.
Tony Williams has it down to a tee. You watch our centre midfield when our full backs receive a pass from lescott or Yob... Nobody will show for the pass, so the fullback finds the winger who eventually runs into trouble. Totally reliterates how importamt Mikel is to everything Everton, he maniplates space to via composure and skill to give the other players time and also upsets the oppositions bank of two 4’s. Very simple. With the exception of set pieces, i fail to see where our goals will come from without the touch of guile only Pienaar and baines may be capable off.
Hopefully our toothless attack can find there way past boros shambolic defence.
Hopefully our toothless attack can find there way past boros shambolic defence.
I think the criticism is largely unjustified. Most of our 1st choice team is injured or coming back from injury/unfit. We’ve lost our entire strikeforce to injury, playing cahill in a new role and relying on a loan striker to make do.
In addition our most gifted player and our creative force is injured. Arteta is largely responsible for the passing game we played when he was moved to the middle, being always available and able to switch the play or pick a forward pass, as well as providing a lot of chances/goals via set plays and creating space for others when teams double up on him. How people can discount his ommission is entirely beyond me.
I dont see what else Moyes could have done yesterday to be honest. Maybe keep yobo out and bring jacobsen in? Dont see how that would have improved our chances going forward.
At the end of the day, we’ve had 2 away games at teams that are not that easy to play against on current form, not played brilliantly, but not conceeded and picked up a couple of points which keeps us ticking over. We’re closer to both teams ahead of us than we were a couple of weeks ago.
I honestly dont see what some people expect moyes to do with the players he has.
In addition our most gifted player and our creative force is injured. Arteta is largely responsible for the passing game we played when he was moved to the middle, being always available and able to switch the play or pick a forward pass, as well as providing a lot of chances/goals via set plays and creating space for others when teams double up on him. How people can discount his ommission is entirely beyond me.
I dont see what else Moyes could have done yesterday to be honest. Maybe keep yobo out and bring jacobsen in? Dont see how that would have improved our chances going forward.
At the end of the day, we’ve had 2 away games at teams that are not that easy to play against on current form, not played brilliantly, but not conceeded and picked up a couple of points which keeps us ticking over. We’re closer to both teams ahead of us than we were a couple of weeks ago.
I honestly dont see what some people expect moyes to do with the players he has.
Gonna throw my tuppence in here. There has been a safety first attitude by Moyes in both the Newcastle and Blackburn games BECAUSE of the injuries.
Playing Jags at RB is a defensive move, as he is not as mobile as Hibbert and generally gets into fewer crossing positions. I am not saying Hibbert is a great attacking full back but there is no doubt we have more balance down the right when we play a proper RB. Jags produced one dangerous cross for Peanuts which forced a save in the first half but after half-time we very rarely threatened down the right.
Arteta’s absence ofcourse hurts the most and has been well debated. In addition, with an unfit Saha and an out of sorts Jo we just don’t have the attacking options.
Consequently we end up with a lop-sided look to the team which is clearly safety first.
So what were the alternatives? Could we have started Jacobsen and used another mid-fielder e.g. Castillo?
On balance, I struggle to believe that either player could have made much more of an influence. Jacobsen has played something like 10 league games in two years and was, in my opinion, not worth signing. Castillo has looked out of sorts when he has played as well.
These two players are only bench warmers, adding very little additional quality. Were they worth signing - I would say yes if they are going to be used more than they have been.
However, if Moyes reverts to a safety first approach whenever he loses first choice players then I think he is wasting wages on these two players.
Conclusion? Moyes has made magnificent strides crafting a good first 11. Resources prohibit him crafting as a good a squad. However, there is no doubt that the reversion to a defensive approach means we probably don’t make as good a use of the squad players we do have as we really should. Starting Jacobsen, AvDM and Castillo may or may not have cost us a point last night. In the scheme of things, it would take a horrendous run for us not to finish in the top 6. Why not take the gamble?
Playing Jags at RB is a defensive move, as he is not as mobile as Hibbert and generally gets into fewer crossing positions. I am not saying Hibbert is a great attacking full back but there is no doubt we have more balance down the right when we play a proper RB. Jags produced one dangerous cross for Peanuts which forced a save in the first half but after half-time we very rarely threatened down the right.
Arteta’s absence ofcourse hurts the most and has been well debated. In addition, with an unfit Saha and an out of sorts Jo we just don’t have the attacking options.
Consequently we end up with a lop-sided look to the team which is clearly safety first.
So what were the alternatives? Could we have started Jacobsen and used another mid-fielder e.g. Castillo?
On balance, I struggle to believe that either player could have made much more of an influence. Jacobsen has played something like 10 league games in two years and was, in my opinion, not worth signing. Castillo has looked out of sorts when he has played as well.
These two players are only bench warmers, adding very little additional quality. Were they worth signing - I would say yes if they are going to be used more than they have been.
However, if Moyes reverts to a safety first approach whenever he loses first choice players then I think he is wasting wages on these two players.
Conclusion? Moyes has made magnificent strides crafting a good first 11. Resources prohibit him crafting as a good a squad. However, there is no doubt that the reversion to a defensive approach means we probably don’t make as good a use of the squad players we do have as we really should. Starting Jacobsen, AvDM and Castillo may or may not have cost us a point last night. In the scheme of things, it would take a horrendous run for us not to finish in the top 6. Why not take the gamble?
Ciaren,
Your statement defies belief, are you that thick?
I?ll explain it slowly so you might grasp the point (though I think it?s beyond you).
Injuries to key players affects our performance as the players who replace them aren?t as good. Also, it disrupts the flow of the team.
You say INJURIES TO PLAYERS WHO ARE NOT ON THE PITCH, HAS ABSOLUELY NO BEARING ON THE PERFORMANCES OF THOSE WHO ACTUALLY ARE ON THE PITCH. Incredible.
If Arteta is playing, others around him play better. Pienaar for example likes to play football and will link up well with Arteta, Arteta will influence his game, build his confidence up. If he has to link up with Rodwell (not even close to Arteta in terms of ability), if he gets balls that aren?t as good, this could land him in trouble, etc, etc. Therefore injuries to players off the pitch does affect performances on it.
Possibly the most ridiculous statement EVER.
Your statement defies belief, are you that thick?
I?ll explain it slowly so you might grasp the point (though I think it?s beyond you).
Injuries to key players affects our performance as the players who replace them aren?t as good. Also, it disrupts the flow of the team.
You say INJURIES TO PLAYERS WHO ARE NOT ON THE PITCH, HAS ABSOLUELY NO BEARING ON THE PERFORMANCES OF THOSE WHO ACTUALLY ARE ON THE PITCH. Incredible.
If Arteta is playing, others around him play better. Pienaar for example likes to play football and will link up well with Arteta, Arteta will influence his game, build his confidence up. If he has to link up with Rodwell (not even close to Arteta in terms of ability), if he gets balls that aren?t as good, this could land him in trouble, etc, etc. Therefore injuries to players off the pitch does affect performances on it.
Possibly the most ridiculous statement EVER.
Ciaran, of course it doesn’t absolve them from poor performances, Osman, just back from injury, was appalling and the one part of his game that is usually excellent, his control, was missing.
However the thread was about hoofball and I offered my reason to why I think it happened last night and will no doubt appear more often in the closing stages of the season.
You introduce hoofball and everyones all round game alters, invariably for the worse.
However the thread was about hoofball and I offered my reason to why I think it happened last night and will no doubt appear more often in the closing stages of the season.
You introduce hoofball and everyones all round game alters, invariably for the worse.
Another game against a poor team below us and again more fucking shite from the Blues. We were also lucky on Saturday against West Brom by the way...
Anyway, to the point: Mr Moyes really fucking does my head in ? Why the fuck play your player of the season Jags out of position when it clearly didn't work in his last game against the Barcodes? Why bring the Lars fella in if he?s shit and you dont rate him? Why not put Pip back to right back? What the fuck does anybody else in the squad got to do to get a game before Ozzy as he is shit, when did he last have a good game?
The only reason we have been playng well this year is through luck. When we got all the injuries we went to 4-5-1 which worked, it also worked because finally Arteta went to his best position, centre mid. It's only took Moyes how long to find this out? He done the same with Manny, brought him in, then played him as a winger, and that's only when he gave him a game.
Baines only started getting a game because Yobo got injured and he hasn?t looked back, but he wouldn?t have got a game otherwise to prove himself. The way I see it with Moyes, either your face fits or you're fucked with a sore arse and a year older.
Tony,
I think you’ve made some decent points on what we can expect without Arteta in the team...But this canot extend to mitigating for individual mistakes....simple things like short passing etc
That was simply the point I was making..
In regards to your point about unwillingness to move for the ball... I even noticed this when it came to throw ins last night...the team from midfield forward just didn’t play as well as they can...but then again I don’t think the team that Moyes picked was designed to try and win the game.
I think you’ve made some decent points on what we can expect without Arteta in the team...But this canot extend to mitigating for individual mistakes....simple things like short passing etc
That was simply the point I was making..
In regards to your point about unwillingness to move for the ball... I even noticed this when it came to throw ins last night...the team from midfield forward just didn’t play as well as they can...but then again I don’t think the team that Moyes picked was designed to try and win the game.
Err . . .It was a match between two teams managed by Moyes and Allardyce.
Neither felt they could afford to lose.
Anyone who was expecting entertainment must spent the last 6 years wearing ear plugs and tied up in a bag, that had been placed in a box, which had been locked in a soundproofed wardrobe, that furnished a very dark dungeon, in the basement of a remote castle built on a deserted island in the middle of nowhere
SHOCKING NEWS :MOYSE AND ALLARDYCE SERVE UP UGLY BORE DRAW ! ! !
Stop whining, you knew this would be the case a week ago.
Do you think the supporters of Man U, The Shite, Chelsea or Arsenal are worried about how they are playing ?
Only results count at this stage of the season, how you get over your injuries doesnt count, just as long as you get over them.
Were still in the race and we’re still in the cup, that’ll do for me
Neither felt they could afford to lose.
Anyone who was expecting entertainment must spent the last 6 years wearing ear plugs and tied up in a bag, that had been placed in a box, which had been locked in a soundproofed wardrobe, that furnished a very dark dungeon, in the basement of a remote castle built on a deserted island in the middle of nowhere
SHOCKING NEWS :MOYSE AND ALLARDYCE SERVE UP UGLY BORE DRAW ! ! !
Stop whining, you knew this would be the case a week ago.
Do you think the supporters of Man U, The Shite, Chelsea or Arsenal are worried about how they are playing ?
Only results count at this stage of the season, how you get over your injuries doesnt count, just as long as you get over them.
Were still in the race and we’re still in the cup, that’ll do for me
Big Sam got it right last night.. he suckered Wiley into focussing on Tiny Tim and neutralising his effect because he knew he was a big threat.
Then he played 4-3-3 pushing right up on the full backs preventing them from getting forward. Preventing us from playing the ball out and building.
He knew we were toothless with TC unable to jump, no creative midfield and no alternative to Hoof ball straight at his massive centre backs..
He out played Moyes. Tactically.
What could Moyes have done?
1. Not split up the best defensive centre back pairing in the Premiership. Jags is NOT a full back. Yobo leaked and nearly cost us dear.
2. Drop Cahill back into midfield from the start him in the middle. With Pinny and Neville outside and play Rodwell behind the midfield as a stopper.
3. Saha up front with Cahill coming through to assis and Rodwell filling the hole Tim leaves behind.
4. That leaves the option of two up front and or using VDM with Neville dropping back to full back.
We are short on class in midfield but we are short in tactics too. We couldn’t cross for toffee and as for the crosses from Baines of late ...
Bypass the midfield and look for the 2nd phase.. seems to be the sum total of attacking tactics. Painful.
Then he played 4-3-3 pushing right up on the full backs preventing them from getting forward. Preventing us from playing the ball out and building.
He knew we were toothless with TC unable to jump, no creative midfield and no alternative to Hoof ball straight at his massive centre backs..
He out played Moyes. Tactically.
What could Moyes have done?
1. Not split up the best defensive centre back pairing in the Premiership. Jags is NOT a full back. Yobo leaked and nearly cost us dear.
2. Drop Cahill back into midfield from the start him in the middle. With Pinny and Neville outside and play Rodwell behind the midfield as a stopper.
3. Saha up front with Cahill coming through to assis and Rodwell filling the hole Tim leaves behind.
4. That leaves the option of two up front and or using VDM with Neville dropping back to full back.
We are short on class in midfield but we are short in tactics too. We couldn’t cross for toffee and as for the crosses from Baines of late ...
Bypass the midfield and look for the 2nd phase.. seems to be the sum total of attacking tactics. Painful.
I think I know what Osman and Alan Wiley were laughing about together last night during the game -
Osman said to Wiley - Can you belive I actually get paid for doing this , and in the premiership too HAHA HA HA
Wiley to osman - I know how you feel Moyes Junior . Im a big windy bag of shite that gets paid for this too, and in the premiership HA HA HA HA
Osman said to Wiley - Can you belive I actually get paid for doing this , and in the premiership too HAHA HA HA
Wiley to osman - I know how you feel Moyes Junior . Im a big windy bag of shite that gets paid for this too, and in the premiership HA HA HA HA
I think there are a lot of walking wounded ON the field for us never mind off it. Too many players are ’returning to full fitness’: Jo, Pienaar, Osman, Saha, Rodwell, Yobo, Fellaini. Others too would surely be rested if we could afford it. This squad is horrendously stretched - what do people expect with the patched-up personnel we have available? Total football? With Jo and Cahill up top and two defensive midfielders in the middle surely the best bet is to lump it forward and try to keep it up there. I expect a few more games like this until key players regain match sharpness. Still only lost one match, against United, since the beginning of December.
chris kelly: [[ Listen, we didn?t concede so we didn?t lose, fine. But where was the driving force going forwards? ]]
He’s in a Spanish hospital mate.
He’s in a Spanish hospital mate.
Going back to a good point Andy Brittenden made the question still hasnt been answered. Why DID osman stay on the pitch last night? He really played poorly and by moving him onto the left when peanuts and baines were doing reasonably well mystified me completely. The obvious counter here is "who do you bring on?" Well first choice for me would have been Gosling then VDM but why not one of the youngsters he had on the bench. Osman was contributing nothing last night and indeed his move to the left meant that he had a negative impact on another which makes taking him off the only LOGICAL choice.
WE are without Arteta for the rest of the season and we have to get over that and get on with it and find another way to play. Surely that’s what moyesy gets paid 65 grand a week for isnt it?
On another note I thought Cahill looked quite good when he dropped back a bit last night. Played some neat passes, now there’s a conundrum!
WE are without Arteta for the rest of the season and we have to get over that and get on with it and find another way to play. Surely that’s what moyesy gets paid 65 grand a week for isnt it?
On another note I thought Cahill looked quite good when he dropped back a bit last night. Played some neat passes, now there’s a conundrum!
I think we will play better on Sunday because we will be forced to play 4-5-1 and that system works for us. I wouldn?t have started with Jo last night as he is crap. It would be good if Fellaini started to show why we paid all that money for him.
If everyone was as level headed as Tony Williams we wouldn’t have much of a discussion, but I agree with every single thing he said.
You’re spot on Tony... some others seem to let their anger and frustration cloud the reality of the situation.
You’re spot on Tony... some others seem to let their anger and frustration cloud the reality of the situation.
Mike,
I can’t remember Osman being substituted in one game this season...and he has been poor in most of them..
Certain players don’t get substituted - no matter what...that is something that has been a feature of the Moyes era..and something that drives any right minded Toffee nuts...
I can’t remember Osman being substituted in one game this season...and he has been poor in most of them..
Certain players don’t get substituted - no matter what...that is something that has been a feature of the Moyes era..and something that drives any right minded Toffee nuts...
I was thinking that as I wrote the post ciaran. I don’t know why that is. Osman does have a reasonable amount of skill but he only seems to show it sporadically which is so frustrating. I’m not even sure what his best position is, wasn’t he a striker for the youth team?
Osman is not a wide player and unfortunately he is the closest we have to Arteta so we should put him in that position Arteta was playing, it was no suprise we did perk up a bit last Sunday when he came on into that position, he gets found out against the strong sides but luckily we have played nearly all of them twice.
I just could not understand him putting him out wide last night, we are basically stuck with what we have and the season is going to be grinding out results now and playing him in the middle is the best of the few options we have and chopping and swapping is not going to help the cause.
I just could not understand him putting him out wide last night, we are basically stuck with what we have and the season is going to be grinding out results now and playing him in the middle is the best of the few options we have and chopping and swapping is not going to help the cause.
The reason Ossie rarely gets subbed off is because he’s one of the fittest in the squad. Over the years we have won / saved more than our fair share of games with late goals, and a lot of that comes down to fitness. He has a much higher fitness level than Pienaar who doesn’t respond well to knocks and gets heavy-legged late on.
BTW - I think Ossie is getting far too much stick here. I don’t think he’s in very good form, but he was one of our better players in the first half of the season (home v Blackburn, home v Fulham, away v Hull and away v Arsenal spring to mind as being very good Ossie performances where he either scored, created a goal or generally looked effective for 90 minutes).
BTW - I think Ossie is getting far too much stick here. I don’t think he’s in very good form, but he was one of our better players in the first half of the season (home v Blackburn, home v Fulham, away v Hull and away v Arsenal spring to mind as being very good Ossie performances where he either scored, created a goal or generally looked effective for 90 minutes).
There is no doubt there is nobody better than Mikel Arteta at not losing the ball and therefore he is a big miss.
There is no doubt that Moyes is a good honest manager who is doing well by us.
However and I said the same after the Newcastle game injuries do not excuse playing players out of position and creating an ultra cautious unbalanced side.
Newcastle and Blackburn were there for the taking.
Newcastle because they were down to 10 men and Blackburn because they are rubbish and with a rookie keeper were a cert for 3 points if we’d have put pressure on them.
As always happens when you pick an ultra defensive line up most of the players stay in their own half.
I feel really sorry for Jo and Tiny.
They get balls lobbed up to them and are expected to control and hold the ball in the face of at least 4 opposition players with no support from their team mates who were concentrating on marking space in their own half.
What is wrong with VDM, Jacobsen and Gosling that they cant even get 10 minutes on the park?
There is no doubt that Moyes is a good honest manager who is doing well by us.
However and I said the same after the Newcastle game injuries do not excuse playing players out of position and creating an ultra cautious unbalanced side.
Newcastle and Blackburn were there for the taking.
Newcastle because they were down to 10 men and Blackburn because they are rubbish and with a rookie keeper were a cert for 3 points if we’d have put pressure on them.
As always happens when you pick an ultra defensive line up most of the players stay in their own half.
I feel really sorry for Jo and Tiny.
They get balls lobbed up to them and are expected to control and hold the ball in the face of at least 4 opposition players with no support from their team mates who were concentrating on marking space in their own half.
What is wrong with VDM, Jacobsen and Gosling that they cant even get 10 minutes on the park?
The thing is we don’t have any wide players at the club at all...thats is apart from the impressionable My van Der Meyde.
Gosling looks far more comfortable when he plays through the middle, Pienaar was always a central player in the days when he looked a world beater...and Osman, well enough said...
Personally I’d give Pienaar his wish and let him play in the middle alongside Rodwell..allow cahill and fella to roam and maybe make VDM earn his wages for once.
We are unbalanced...That is the problem...and there’s no easy way around it.
Gosling looks far more comfortable when he plays through the middle, Pienaar was always a central player in the days when he looked a world beater...and Osman, well enough said...
Personally I’d give Pienaar his wish and let him play in the middle alongside Rodwell..allow cahill and fella to roam and maybe make VDM earn his wages for once.
We are unbalanced...That is the problem...and there’s no easy way around it.
Robbie Muldoon .... Personally I am more worried about West Ham catching us up, than us catching up Arsenal or Aston Villa. Let?s be realistic, the best we can hope for is 5th or 6th place. I think Arsenal will go on to take 4th place and Villa will drop to 5th or, if they are going through a bad patch, and we stay fairly consistent, we might be 5th and them 6th but that is only a mere woman?s view!!
Ciaran, in all honesty, do you think we’d have won if we’d played Gosling and VDM last night? I don’t.
Christine, I don’t think Allardyce got it right last night otherwise he’d have won. Blackburn played very very defensive considering the draw wasn’t much use to them. In the first half Warnock broke into our half and he was at least 30 yards ahead of the next Blackburn player. The reason our full backs made little impression was because there was a wall of Blackburn players in front of them. They tripled up on Pienaar which shows how defensive they were. Unfortunately without Arteta we had no other way of breaking them down.
Christine, I don’t think Allardyce got it right last night otherwise he’d have won. Blackburn played very very defensive considering the draw wasn’t much use to them. In the first half Warnock broke into our half and he was at least 30 yards ahead of the next Blackburn player. The reason our full backs made little impression was because there was a wall of Blackburn players in front of them. They tripled up on Pienaar which shows how defensive they were. Unfortunately without Arteta we had no other way of breaking them down.
Alan I have to disagree.
Blackburn were allowed nay encouraged to push up on us because we had few attack minded players on the pitch.
VDM or Gosling even for 15 to 30 minutes would have pushed them back and meant we played in their half instead of ours.
Instead we want to keep Yobo happy by playing Jags in a position that is clear to all supporters neither he nor Yobo is capable of playing in and leave 2 full backs on the bench!!!
Blackburn were allowed nay encouraged to push up on us because we had few attack minded players on the pitch.
VDM or Gosling even for 15 to 30 minutes would have pushed them back and meant we played in their half instead of ours.
Instead we want to keep Yobo happy by playing Jags in a position that is clear to all supporters neither he nor Yobo is capable of playing in and leave 2 full backs on the bench!!!
Some people on here dont seem to be able to understand the game.
If your best players are missing you're not going to get the best results.
if your best footballers are missing your not going to play great football. I can't understand why some on here seem to think that, once we lost Arteta, Moyes decided to tell everyone to stop playing football.
The reason we aren't playing good football is because we can't, when only 3 or 4 in the side can retain possession and are comfortable on the ball, only so many players in the team can be carried at a time.
Without Arteta and a few other big losses, then the balance to the side is lost.
If your best players are missing you're not going to get the best results.
if your best footballers are missing your not going to play great football. I can't understand why some on here seem to think that, once we lost Arteta, Moyes decided to tell everyone to stop playing football.
The reason we aren't playing good football is because we can't, when only 3 or 4 in the side can retain possession and are comfortable on the ball, only so many players in the team can be carried at a time.
Without Arteta and a few other big losses, then the balance to the side is lost.
I don't think you can criticise the lads out there or the manager's tactics last night; quite simply we did not have the quality in central areas to open them up.
You can?t get blood out of a stone and I actually thought Blackburn pressed the ball really well last night.
You can?t get blood out of a stone and I actually thought Blackburn pressed the ball really well last night.
John Charles
At last, somebody see’s it for what it is
At last, somebody see’s it for what it is
You so called fans make me laugh. We have been going fantastically well for the last 2 or 3 months and as soon as we draw as couple of games you get right back to slagging the team off. Be a proper supporter and get behind the team like the word "supporter" suggests.
VDM must surely be given a chance against Boro ? He has some pace though hardly electrifying but enough to pull defenders out of positionand he can certainly cross a ball - admittedly that statement is based on having hardly seen him ! But until DM gives picks him.......Criticism of Jo is a bit rich. He’s playing a lone striker role and how many decent passes has he received in any game ? He looks capable - again he’s only been here five minutes - but like Beattie and AJ he needs service and additionally you can’t expect him to run from one end to the other for 90 minutes; that’s not his role. I appreciate that we have nobody to replace Arteta but even against Blackburn when we did try to play it on the ground we looked better, though we were plainly incapable of doing so all the time.
Whilst on the subject of midfield maestros I hear that Valencia are in all sorts of financial trouble with numerous players unsettled by it all and wanting away. What about Manny coming back to us in the summer break?
My god!!!! It?s fuckin obvious without Arteta the quality of the football goes down, what do people expect!!!! What should Moyes do? What the fuck can he do??? Maybe Peanuts in the centre, really thats about it.
As for players' performance, anyone who has played not watched and talked about it in the pub etc but played even basic level knows when in possession you want an option; if no option you, either go on a run with it or, if being closed down, you hoof it.
As for players' performance, anyone who has played not watched and talked about it in the pub etc but played even basic level knows when in possession you want an option; if no option you, either go on a run with it or, if being closed down, you hoof it.
??? Can’t agree at all with this post.
As I did not see David Moyes giving the ball away at every opportunity or hoofing it up the pitch or not supporting Jo when he pulled another useless punt down the field out of the sky.
Some supporters on here blame Moyes for the credit crunch or the ozone layer etc however he has us 6th in the league and in the quarter finals of the FA Cup. I agree with the performance it was awful and worse than Newcastle if that’s possible. I too was frustrated but its the players that somehow come out of this without any criticism which makes me wonder .
This is how I saw the performance of some players ... Jags (out of position a chief hoofball merchant last night yet amazing centre half) Lescott ( Hoof ball itis but generally done ok) Yobo - Shocking , Baines - excellent as usual, Pienaar - not involved enough, Osman - too weak should have been replaced, Neville - done ok, Rodwell - not in the game , Cahill - worked hard but ineffectual, Jo - isolated but did not work hard enough. Now if we win on sunday and play great football will moyes be getting all the credit for the way we passed the ball around ??? I don’t think so. So why is he criticised when the players fail to perform ??? He said after the game he was disappointed with the way we played.
My gripe with the manager is why he moved Jags to accomodate Yobo ? If Yobo can’t play right back then tough but leave Jags with Lescott.
The simple facts are that Moyes and the Players have done really well to even be in with a sniff of 4th place after the first 3 months debacle that took place. We need to accept that this season we’ve lost Hibbert, Pienaar, Cahill, Vaughan, Yakubu, Fellaini, Arteta, Anichebe, Saha and even Shandy and Jacobssen for a significant period of time and a squad as small as ours should not be able to cope many wouldn’t and I include the SKY4 in that.
Now if your looking to blame someone for squad size then step forward bullshit Billy and his statues otherwise known as the board !!!!! .
As I did not see David Moyes giving the ball away at every opportunity or hoofing it up the pitch or not supporting Jo when he pulled another useless punt down the field out of the sky.
Some supporters on here blame Moyes for the credit crunch or the ozone layer etc however he has us 6th in the league and in the quarter finals of the FA Cup. I agree with the performance it was awful and worse than Newcastle if that’s possible. I too was frustrated but its the players that somehow come out of this without any criticism which makes me wonder .
This is how I saw the performance of some players ... Jags (out of position a chief hoofball merchant last night yet amazing centre half) Lescott ( Hoof ball itis but generally done ok) Yobo - Shocking , Baines - excellent as usual, Pienaar - not involved enough, Osman - too weak should have been replaced, Neville - done ok, Rodwell - not in the game , Cahill - worked hard but ineffectual, Jo - isolated but did not work hard enough. Now if we win on sunday and play great football will moyes be getting all the credit for the way we passed the ball around ??? I don’t think so. So why is he criticised when the players fail to perform ??? He said after the game he was disappointed with the way we played.
My gripe with the manager is why he moved Jags to accomodate Yobo ? If Yobo can’t play right back then tough but leave Jags with Lescott.
The simple facts are that Moyes and the Players have done really well to even be in with a sniff of 4th place after the first 3 months debacle that took place. We need to accept that this season we’ve lost Hibbert, Pienaar, Cahill, Vaughan, Yakubu, Fellaini, Arteta, Anichebe, Saha and even Shandy and Jacobssen for a significant period of time and a squad as small as ours should not be able to cope many wouldn’t and I include the SKY4 in that.
Now if your looking to blame someone for squad size then step forward bullshit Billy and his statues otherwise known as the board !!!!! .
"Don’t blame the loss of Arteta on these recent abysmal performances as he was anonymous for the first half of this season and most of last year"
So I assume its conincidence that we’ve played crap recently when he’s injured and crap end of last season and start of this season when he was anonymous?
If Arteta plays well, Everton have a chance of playing well. Cant remember too many good footballing performances when Arteta didnt play or didnt play well.
So I assume its conincidence that we’ve played crap recently when he’s injured and crap end of last season and start of this season when he was anonymous?
If Arteta plays well, Everton have a chance of playing well. Cant remember too many good footballing performances when Arteta didnt play or didnt play well.
John Cotton you are dead right. But you also have missed out the point that makes me more angry. When Moyes is forced into decisions he generally falls lucky. He only started to plat Lescott because of injury, he only put Arteta back in the middle because there was no one else.
When he voluntarily makes a decision it is usually wrong. Jags into midfield, Jags at right back when he has been the best centre back in Britain all season. People say how Beattie and Johnson were flops and how Jo already could be but how many chances do our forwards actually get.
Our football is dire to watch, it usually is and the only time it has got better is when he was forced into putting Arteta back in the middle. He has taken us up the league but I think that just shows how poor the league really is. And before anyone says about me being glass half empty, don?t. I am just being a realist. DM is just too conservative and naive to take us any further.
© ToffeeWeb
-sm.jpg)
-sm.jpg)
-sm.jpg)
-sm.jpg)
