The Mail Bag
Small Club Tag Sticking To Toffees
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Here follows an extract from Martin Samuel's column in today's Daily Mail; I must admit I don't have a lot of time for him or his newspaper, but this is how we are percieved by many in the media:
'In recent weeks, there has been much talk of Ferguson's successor at Manchester United, sparked by Rio Ferdinand's endorsement of Jose Mourinho. The reaction to that has been the championing of a domestic candidate, most popularly the impressive David Moyes, manager of Everton. Therein the conundrum: how can the career of a manager punching above his weight at a small club prepare him for the Premier League's upper echelons?'
We may not have the money of the super-rich, but this description of us as a small club is beginning to grate. The only way to put an end to this state of affairs is to get that last CL place and WIN the FA Cup. Let's show them exactly how small we are when we parade the Cup in the most successful football city in the country by a mile.
If David Moyes has any sense he will realise tha,t if we was offered the job at United or any other BIG club, he would be setting himself up for a fall. Stay where you are, David, and make Everton the force we know that we can be.
Bill Kenwright and the marketing department please take note ? we will not enhance our new found reputation by moving to a small town!
Anthony Dyer, Posted 17/03/2009 at 23:00:24
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Don’t encourage them by buying their rags, all they are is tomorrow’s fish and chip wrapping.
The conversation turned to who was going to get fourth, and guess what team didn?t get a mention? Thats right: us. Houghton was saying he thought Arsenal would go on to claim fourth, fair enough they will be favourites now with the 4-point advantage and players coming back, but then in the same breath he was saying how Aston Villa will have made progress by finishing fifth.
There was not one mention of Everton just four points behind either and with a much better recent record than the other two teams.
I would love to sneak into the fourth and stop the media love-in of Arsenal and especially Villa.
Though to be honest, I?m not too bothered about the media not licking our arse because look at Villa now. Bet all thoses journo?s who said Villa were easily going to break the top 4 feel right muppets now.
I?ll take being last on Match of the Day everytime if it means our good form continues, beacuse who knows... If we had the media up our arse we may not have gotten to were we are, unlike a certain Aston Villa who are now realising that having the papers behind you isn't a guarantee for success.
A good example of "Sports Writing" recently is the Amir Khan fight, and I quote, "Khan completely outclassed him". He (Khan) had butted the guy in the first round, cut him, had blood in his eye for three rounds, then the ref stopped it, the man could not see!
Do not get wound up by clowns such as these, we will show them all by the end of season, although I must admit, the Pompey game is to me, a very crucial part of our season, win that and who knows. COYB
To me that appears that he is using the term small club as financially small, and compared to the regular top 4 we can?t really argue about that. We can however as somebody has already suggested go a long way to changing our financial position by making a determined effort to grab one of the Champions League places.
Does Martin Samuel bother me? No not really, but losing points to Portsmouth on Saturday will ruin my weekend.
We are a ?small club? in comparison to the likes of Arsenal, United etc at present without experience of big transfer budgets, regular CL games and winning trophies. I don?t see the problem with this, anybody can see we don?t compare with Utd at present.
The main reasons Moyes won?t manage Man U are:
He?s never won anything, in fact this is only his 2nd semi-final.
He?s never managed a club in the CL. Moyes?s European record is poor.
Man U will not accept Moyes?s style of football. These same journalists who are touting Moyes for Fergie?s successor ruled out Mourinho because he was too defensive!
There is no way Moyes will work with Rooney.
Paper columnists have to keep coming up with stories. It?s relatively quiet in the football world at the moment so they?ve not much else to write about. That fat twat Samuel is probably just paying Everton and Moyes a backhanded compliment.
Nearly fell off my chair when I read this.
In the 3 seasons of playing in Europe, he has lost 5 games, 2 against Villarreal, CL semi-finalists, Bucharest away, after a demoralising defeat by a dodgy ref, Fiorentina away and Standard Liege away.
Unbeaten at home in the Uefa Cup apart from pens, beat the legue champions from Russia, Norway and became the first team to beat someone at home (can?t remeber the team) in the history of the competition.
Yeah, his record is shite isn?t it? Almost forgot, most wins in Europe in one season, even more that the ECWC team.
Just enjoy what is turning out to be a brilliant season considering all of the injuries we have. No team makes more effort than Everton. We do not have semi-articulate players like Rooney mouthing off nor shameful cheats like Ronaldo associated with the club. Football players can?t really ?earn? their money but Everton players could not work harder for theirs.
Tony, think about it. The reason he has more wins than losses is because it’s not a league system Moyes has played in i.e. you lose and you’re out.
The reason we have more wins than the ECWC season is purely due to the amount of games we played against shite like Larissa, Nuremburg (who were relegated), SK Brann and AZ Alkmaar. These are fucking no mark teams. We beat Zenit but were helped largely by the ref.
Think about how far we’ve actually progressed in European competition. Villareal - knocked out. Beaucharest - embarrassingly knocked out. Fiorentina - knocked out well before the serious part of the competition. Standard Liege - knocked out in the first round.
So Tony, do you think that’s a good European record? Most people would disagree, probably even Moyes himself. Get back on your chair mate.
That season though, we didn't have the team really to compete in Europe. After that we've had one good campaign and one poor one, about par for the course at the moment I?d say.
Why do people get worked up about the TV/press etc. Who cares ? taking offence at every perceived slight just makes us whiners. Nothing that anyone writes changes our league placing/cup status etc etc. Just be happy that we are Evertonians
Do you think Moyes has done enough to really make Man U take a chance on him? I’m happy with Moyes, I’m not complaining but from a Man U perspective he’s not ever won anything and hasn’t really come close to winning anything. Ferguson had won domestic honours and a European cup with Aberdeen when he took over. I just don’t think we need to worry about Moyes leaving regardless of what the press write.
Modern day success with Everton will be an achievement.
With the size of our squad I would give the young players another season before even considering success in Europe.
We would never have been able to maintain the domestic level in the league and cup this season if we had played lots of games in Europe. We do not have enough top class players to fill in for injuries. It has been hard enough coping with the league and cup.
Reality is that we will build slowly towards a reasonable European run because we can’t spend another £40 million to boost the squad. It’s a better problem than avoiding relegation.
Otherwise we would all be sitting ithat stadium across the park with a bunch of gobshites and glory hunting Norwegians, waving stupid flags and singing ridiculous songs for the media. Enough said.
Would this be the AZ Alkmaar team that are the runaway leaders of the Dutch League Alan?
The arguement isn?t that he can?t be more adventurous given appropriate resources, just that the track record of managers like Sam Allardyce at Newcastle and Curbishley at West Ham suggests that managers struggle to adapt their style easily when in charge of a bigger club.
He also goes on to comment that maybe it is also Benitez?s problem, coming from a smaller club like Valencia meant that he has a naturally cautious approach.
People (Everton supporters particularly) get hung up on this big / small club thing, but in this case he?s right. Man Utd supporters turn up expecting their team to roll over all opposition convincingly and with style, whereas Everton at present don?t automatically take the 3pts for granted and are more concerned about winning.
Just ignore it, rise above it with "class and dignity", we are Everton, end of!
And look at them objectively.
Villarreal, CL semi finalist that year and it took one of the dodgiest decision to finally kill us off in that game.
Bucharest ? Hang over from the game with the dodgiest decision.
Fiorentina ? Naive in Italy, dominant at Goodison, went out on the lottery of pens
Standard Liege ? Champions League qualifiers, just about beaten by the RedShite and half our team hadn?t played together/become match fit before the match, too good for us.
You may call me a Moyes apologist but I couldn?t give a monkeys but the defeats were explainable, we just aren?t good enough.
You counteract my points on why I feel Moyes has done OK in Europe but your own points are contradictions as Damien and Ian pointed out.
Don?t get me wrong I know we are still still learning in Europe but to say his record is poor is a bit too much for me.
Did you not hold Moyes even slightly responsible for those inept displays against Liege? I?m not Moyes bashing, I want him to stay for a good while longer but if you think he?s got an impressive European record, your specs have been tinted far bluer than mine.
However, all of that said, his record in Europe (at the moment) is poor I?m afraid. We can use all the excuses we like about coming up against difficult teams like Fiorentina and Liege; however, being able to overcome teams of this ilk is what enables a manager to go and actually have a good European record.
Unfortunately so far David hasn?t managed to do so and consequently his overall Euro record is poor. I?m sure he?ll turn it round eventually though. Trust in Moyes.
Our squad has never looked so good under Moyes IMO and we have more players that have been there before. A good run and hopefully a piece of silverware from the FA Cup run this season and our boys will feel a lot more confident in Europe?s knockout games? success breeds success.
As for managing Man Utd, I have to admit, I think the main reason it wouldn?t happen is because of Rooney. He has the ability to manage them, that I?m sure of, but as said before here, the patience of the Man Utd supporters would be minimal and whoever takes over from Fergusson is destined to fail, even though it was the patience given to Ferguson that gave him the ability to succeed.
I think the main reason Big Sam and Alan Curbishley didn?t succeed was due to the small amount of time given to them to build their own team. Moyes has had that at Everton and it's beginning to pay off for us. Both Curbishley and Big Sam inherited other people?s teams and were expected to be successful overnight; it was never going to happen.
The way transfers happen would mean any new manager would need a couple of seasons or ridiculous amounts of money e.g. Chelsea, to really influence their new club. Due to our lack of funds, Moyes has done well because he has been given the backing and time needed to shape his team, unfortunately maybe not as quickly as he would have liked.
Winner without ’Big’ 4 (scoff)
Everton - 3.35 (bit better than 9/4 in old money)
Put your money where your mouth is, I have, even if we don’t do it, the price will come down when Villa lose a few times over the next couple of weeks and we catch them up so you can lay your bet off again and make a profit whatever happens.
They think buying a few over-priced foriegn players and hiring a non-English-speaking manager is an instant recipe for success. I wonder if they will back Spurs next season, with ?arry at the helm and continue to ignore Everton, regardless of where we finish.
PS we aren?t a small team either, at present we are a smallER team than Manure.
Greed is good is the mantra that him and idiots like Scudamore espouse as fans are priced out of going to the game and fewer and fewer matches take place on a Saturday afternoon.
I really hope the credit crunch that is affecting the real world ? our world takes down a couple of these so-called big teams who exist on a bubble of credit.
God I feel better for that!
My other bet was on the handicap where all teams are 15/1 to win and are given a ?start? of a certain number of points. Ladbrokes gave Everton 26 points and the current standings are :-
Hull 83 points
Wigan 82
Stoke 79
A Villa 78
Fulham 78
Bolton 77
West Ham 76
EVERTON 74
Sunderland 72
Liverpool 70
The stake was again £5 EW and I think the place is definitely on. Winning it is a much longer shot and unfortunately I think the main danger is coming from across the park. The only team definitely out of the running is, of course, Tottenham to whom the bookies, in their wisdom, only gave 20 points.
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1 Posted 18/03/2009 at 04:59:19
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We all know that Everton are one of the biggest clubs in the land. It does piss me off that many journalists seem to forget we actually qualified for the champions league before, but manage to remember that Spurs nearly made it. It seems many journalists are more excited about budgets and potential new transfers then remembering where teams have finished in recent years.
Its obvious but the best way to fix that is to win things. The fact is we haven’t won anything in recent years so we are right to focus on the job at hand. At least that?s better than being a Spurs or Newcastle supporter who is deluded enough to be convinced every year that they are a huge club and will surely make to top 4 with a few new players.