The Mail Bag

Recognition for Jags

Comments (28)

There is a report over on Football 365 that Jags has recieved a lot of support from his fellow professionals and could be in the running for Player of the Year.

http://www.football365.com/story/0,17033,8652_5097988,00.html

This is great news. Jags has been tremendous again for us this season and it's nice to see it hasn't gone unnoticed.
Dean Williamson, Liverpool     Posted 25/03/2009 at 08:25:09

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Brett Bradshaw
1   Posted 25/03/2009 at 13:32:06

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I was talking to a mate of mine who is a RS fan and he had A LOT of good things to say about him.

He pointed out that Jags had Torres in his pocket for the whole game the other week, a rather different story to how well Vidic performed against him. Torres is without doubt a world class player and Jags didn’t give him a sniff.

To hear this and to have this conversation, particularly with one of the darkside, was a truely great feeling to say the least.

Tony Williams
2   Posted 25/03/2009 at 14:20:37

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As one of the comments on the articles has suggested, he won’t win it as he is not in a team that is possibly pushing for the title. I actually think the talk of Giggs getting it is a bit of a piss take, as he has not exactly been a regular this season has he?

It will not doubt go to Stevie Mee Laaa, even though he is now a proven thug.
Anthony Dyer
3   Posted 25/03/2009 at 15:00:46

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He would be my choice as Everton’s player of the season.
He hasn’t missed a game and has made very few mistakes.
But in all likelyhood Stevie Mee will get the award , despite missing games and being arrested sorry rested for part of the season.
James Boden
4   Posted 25/03/2009 at 15:07:17

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Jagielka should be in the running for Player of the Year but that?s the thing ? he won?t. It?s done on reputation. The year we finished 4th surely Cahill should have been up for the award but nope not a mention. When we finished 5th Lescott had a tremendous season and was top-scoring defender in the supposed world?s best league. Did he get mentioned? ? did he shite. So although he may be deserving to be in the running for this award do not be shocked if he isn?t.

However I would be suprised if he doesn?t win the Everton award. As for footballer of the year I would probably say Vidic but I fully expect Darling Stevie to win it because we shouldn?t forget what a wonderful professional he is!
COYB FTRS

Tony Marsh
5   Posted 25/03/2009 at 15:33:23

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Are you mad, Dean? Player of the Year status is only afforded to Man Utd players or players from teams who finish above the Mancs. Jagz and Everton do not fit the bill mate.
Neil Humphrey
6   Posted 25/03/2009 at 15:54:52

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Just checked - the last non Sky 4 player to win it was fucking Ginola, in 1999. Jags deserves it but has zero chance.
Tim Wardrop
7   Posted 25/03/2009 at 15:56:24

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What is it with Everton fans and conspiracy theorists?! I?d love to see Jags (or any Everton player for that matter) get Player of the Year, but just because he won?t doesn?t mean there?s a conspiracy against players who don?t play for Man Utd!

A few points:

1) it?s very tough for a defender to win the award ? no defender has won the Football Writer?s Award for fucking ages and only Terry and Paul McGrath have won the PFA title in the Premier League era. This is because goalscorers get all the limelight.

2) Players from outside the top clubs do and can win the award(s): Ginola won it when at Spurs in ?99.

3) As Evertonians we generally only watch Everton "Live", so at best we get to see the opposition players in the flesh twice a season. The journos and the pros see every club several times, or have a more informed opinion (in terms of the players) as to who has been the best opponent they?ve come up against.

So - I don?t think there?s any sort of conspiracy. The winner should probably be Vidic and (much as I hate to say it) I?d have Gerrard up there.

If I was voting I?d probably have a shortlist of

Vidic
Gerrard
A Young
Van Persie
Jagielka

Jags would probably be bottom of that pile.
Ciarán MacGiolla Eoin
8   Posted 25/03/2009 at 16:16:24

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Spot on Tim.

Could the reason for the accolade going to a top four team, possibly be that they have the best players who play the best football consistently?

Jags has been superb for long periods this season. Unfortunately this has been interupted by periods when he has been played out of position and played rather poorly.
Jonny Roberts
9   Posted 25/03/2009 at 16:18:08

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How on earth do people think Vidic is more worthy than Jags?!?!?!

Vidic plays for the Mancs who get attacked a few times a game, when Jags plays for us and actually has to defend most fo the 90 minutes!!

As people pointed out, Jags had Torres in his pocket for 270 minutes, yet Vidic couldnt cope with him for 30 seconds.

If you put Jags in the Manc side he would be considered a god in my opinion.

Manc defenders are over rated, cos when do they ever have any defending to do?!?!?!
Ciarán MacGiolla Eoin
10   Posted 25/03/2009 at 16:36:25

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Here?s a thought... if Jags played for another team, would you really advocate him for the award?

Especially whenever his offensive game consists of hoofing it?

I don?t think we?d be so charitable.
Paul Holmes
11   Posted 25/03/2009 at 16:44:09

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Jags is a great defender (stopper); Tony Hibbert is similar in that he is good defensively. But to win awards like this you need to be able to pass the ball with accuracy and to fellow players at a wide range of distances ? something both of them need to improve upon. If jags could improve in that department he would be some player.
Dave Wilson
12   Posted 25/03/2009 at 17:28:40

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This website is bombarded with complaints about us playing hoofball. Now you guys want the most persistent offender to be named Player of the Year? WTF?

Jags is a good stopper, but surely the Player of the Year has to actually be able to play?

Anthony Dyer
13   Posted 25/03/2009 at 19:14:25

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Dave Watson was not the most creative defender we?ve ever had but nobody says that he didn?t have what it takes to be a legend. If you want a no-nonsense defender who reads the game well then look no further than Jags. If you want consistentcy of performance look no further than Jags. To blame the Jags for us playing hoofball is silly, we have been playing hoofball for seven years and he?s only been here for 2 or so.

It was in one of yesterdays newspapers that Jags was linked with the PFA player of the year award.

Marco Bonfiglio
14   Posted 25/03/2009 at 19:04:41

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The PFA player of the year is voted by the PFA members, so alternative explanations for the result are:

Trade union members, who do the job week in, week out, are the best judges of their peers’ efforts or;
the PFA vote is an exercise in back-scratching and log-rolling, with the biggest squads voting for a team-mate, hence the Sky4 ten-year stranglehold.

Discuss.

Interesting to compare it to the LMA award, which cold, hard logic suggests should go to whichever of the purple-nosed, gum-chewing, selectively-myopic, implausibly-goateed, preening denizen of the top four places has accumulated the most trinkets in a given season. Except Mr Moyes has lifted it twice, suggesting that his peers are applying some kind of co-efficient to their votes. Which suggests to me that if the PFA applied the same kind of co-efficient, Phil Jagielka would be a candidate, (taking being played out of position into account). So would Arteta (strong season cut short through no fault of his own). And Martin Turner (sterling performances for a team currently in freefall). And Scott Carson (shipping shedloads of goals, but making shedloads of saves behind a defence that’s been on holiday since September).

Anyone who gets to play football for a living, and whose weekly salary comes in five or six digits, and who worries about getting another trinket from his mates has self-esteem problems that Freud, Jung and Frazier Crane would run a mile from. Remind you of anyone? Those kind of problems could land a guy in court ...
Dave Wilson
15   Posted 25/03/2009 at 20:23:18

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Anthony, Nobody is blaming Jags for us playing hoofball, he?s not the only one who does it, but he is the most persistent offender by a country mile.

I?ve read a hundred post?s slaughtering Everton's hoofball tactics at Portsmouth, I can remember Jags putting his foot through the ball at least 4 times at Fratten Park, he was unmarked or unchallenged every time, on one occasion he even volleyed the ball from his own half straight out of play for a goal kick.

I know what the PFA player of the year award is, I also know Jags won't be getting it. My point is, it doesn't make sense for anyone to come on TW and declare their hatred for hoofball to then advocate Jags for such a prestigious award.

Jay Harris
16   Posted 25/03/2009 at 22:25:56

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Some of the best centre-halves this country has ever seen hoof the ball up the field or even out of play sometimes. It?s called letting your team mates know they haven't made themselves available and therefore you?re playing safe by getting it out the way so you are not caught in possession. Jags has made one or two forays up the field as well as his ability to hoof it out of danger.

Having said that, I much prefer it when we play a passing game and we look a lot better for it but we are not the professionals they are and a centre-half's primary job is to keep the opposition from scoring. Something he has done extremely well this season and I for one put him head and shoulders above Vidic who has to resort to fouling people to get the better of them.
Paul Holmes
17   Posted 25/03/2009 at 22:22:35

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At last somebody who talks sense; take a bow, Dave Wilson. To understand what Dave means, just remember the last England game: Jags started and was taken off at half-time (we know the reason why). He?s a great stopper, but the other part of his game needs to improve if he is to play regularly for England.
Tom Pepper
18   Posted 25/03/2009 at 23:01:50

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Come on everybody... it's a no-brainer. It will be without any question the chief thug & top diver "Stevie Laar Mee"... (if only for the the way he kissed the camera picture of himself). Truth is while we hate him he has had a fantastic season & I wish he was Blue... The BASTARD.
Marco Bonfiglio
19   Posted 25/03/2009 at 23:37:46

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Tom Pepper; if he were still a Blue, I’d be severely embarrassed.
Marco Bonfiglio
20   Posted 25/03/2009 at 23:40:44

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Actually, make that utterly ashamed.
Ben Jones
21   Posted 26/03/2009 at 00:37:18

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I?m sorry, why agree with Dave Wilson?! He?s a bloody defender, he?s not there to pass and create opportunities... he?s there to DEFEND... I'm sorry it?s just bloody common sense.

And another thing: if Jagielka played for a top 4 club, he would pass. Jagielka does not pass because he has no-one to pass forward to, the only thing he can do is pass across, pass back to goal or hoof it. If our midfielders created space for Jagielka, he?d pass it!!

Think of Utd? Carrick, Fletcher, Scholes and Anderson all do it for them! Think of the shite? Alonso and Mascherano! Think of Chelsea? Deco, Ballack, Mikel, Lampard! Think of Arsenal? Song, Denilson, Diaby, Fabregas (when fit!!)

The only player we have is Arteta, and at certain times Cahill, who could do this. It?s not Jagielka?s fault, it?s the midfielders who don?t allow space for the centre backs to pass it to them!

Now people who applaud Dave Wilson are not looking at this properly; surely people see that Lescott, Yobo or Jagielka when playing centre back have no choice but to hoof it?! There?s no link between centre back and centre mid since Arteta left!!
Dave Wilson
22   Posted 26/03/2009 at 07:08:54

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Ben Jones
I understand the reason why we play hoofball. I wrote a whole bloody article on the subject on this site last year, saying exactly what you are saying now, I think I even entitled it "Hoofball"

But it's you my friend who doesn't understand the situation: even when we did get the ball down and play in the middle of this season, Jags struggled to come to terms with it. Baines Lescot and even Hibbert embraced it, but you would still see Arteta occasionally beat his sides in frustration when Jags launched one over his head.

The Jag is a brilliant defender, he?s very quick, very strong and very brave, but it takes a different sort of bravery to hold on to the ball that split-second longer when you're the last line of defence, that split-second sometimes makes the difference between a nice easy pass or aimlessly hoofing the ball up the park. playing football, or hoofball.

Phil tried to play a couple of times early in the season, unfortunately he got his fingers burnt. He seems to have been scarred by that but, until he finds the confidence to hold on to the ball a split-second longer, he will never be considered a ball-playing defender. Now, if your happy to think "he?s not there to pass" ? fine, that's your opinion... but don't then complain when we play "hoofball".

One more thing, Ben. I was with a mate from Southsea on Saturday, I sat in that pokey little stand to the left of our fans, the first time the Jag launched it, Pienaar was in acres of space calling for the ball and when the Jag volleyed it straight for a goalkick, Pienaar was jumping up and down screaming for it; the Pompey supporters around me fell about laughing.

Yes, you're correct, the midfield players DO need to make themselves available, but it's a two-way thing and defenders have to trust their own ability to find them.

Tony Williams
23   Posted 26/03/2009 at 10:00:10

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A little off topic but still with the thrust of the topic, substitute jags with Hibbert’s name and you have what I have been arguing for about two seasons. He is there to defend so judge him on his defensive skills, just like Jags. He won’t win it but he is still a cracking player and is ours so fuck what the uppity voters say.
Ben Jones
24   Posted 26/03/2009 at 12:44:26

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Sorry to seem a bit agressive there, Dave Wilson, you seem quite a knowledgable person, but I still disagree with you. Lescott and Hibbert are similar to Jagielka in the hoofball situation. I can’t see how you think Jagielka is solely to blame, as I blame all the defense and the midfielder rather than just poor Jagielka.

You still did not respond to my post with the top 4 situation, I reckon most of the defenders in the top 4 (probably expect Ferdinand and Vidic) would do exactly the same as Jags if they played for Everton. There’s never a midfielder looking for space for them, and we need to work on that.

And by the way, I do complain about hoofball as much as everyone does, but I blame the management rather than players, because the players know they can pass the ball, just the management are obviously not training them well enough to pass from defense to midfield.
Dave Wilson
25   Posted 26/03/2009 at 14:07:40

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Ben

I disagree about the top four too, Chelsea play hoofball everytime Drogba plays, Hypia and Carragher are happy to give it the big boot too, Liverpool?s keeper has four assists in the last two matches alone, in fact when Alonso isn't playing they are worse than us for knocking it long.

The pace of the EPL does not afford central defenders the luxury of developing their ball playing skills thats why England have struggled, people like Carragher, John Terry, and dare I say it, the Jag are terrific defenders but top international football requires slightly more, thats why England will always get found out, no matter how many Rooneys or Gerrards are in the team.

With the exceptions of Arsenal, Man United and WBA, every team in in the Prem plays hoofball to varying degrees, of course it helps when you have players of the calibre of Scholes or Carrick looking to take responsibility from their defenders and I?d like to see how Man U would cope with them two out injured, especially the much vaunted Rio.

Anyway like most Evertonians, I only care about Everton and let's be honest, we do launch it more than neccesary. I didn't seek to single Jags out, but the article is actually about him.

Brian Waring
26   Posted 26/03/2009 at 15:10:48

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Tony Hibbert is a solid defender, but gets absolutely slated on here because of his ball distribution.
Why then should Jags be exempt from criticism for his woeful distribution?
paul holmes
27   Posted 26/03/2009 at 18:32:45

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With 3 Everton players being,in and around the England set up,their play will improve,especially with an Italian coach (they like to keep the ball,keep possesion).If for any reason they continue to play ’hoofball’ after training with the international team,then my worse fears are that Moyes is telling them to play this way-wait and see!
Tom Pepper
28   Posted 26/03/2009 at 22:25:14

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Marco.. Dont? get upset ?? I never said I want him to win it.. I detest him. But you certainly will not get any worthwhile odds against him doing so... And I find it difficult to accept that you or any other Evertonian would be even remotely embarresed if he was playing for us... Be honest ? he would be an idol... He is a very good all-round footballer (though it appears an absolute arrogent shit of a person).

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