The Mail Bag
Famous in our own Backyard
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I visited the fantastic new Liverpool 1 last week. The first time I've been down for a proper look round. The only drawback of that place is that there is a huge dirty great big LFC store with all sorts of shite for sale. Walking past (on my way to HMV) it was clear to see it was quite busy and they must have been doing a good trade.
I get to HMV and notice they sell boxes and boxes of Torres ladyboy and other Liverpool related posters. Even worse they sell these on every floor. Strategically placed by every escalator. I was browsing through the DVD section and noticed a large selection of LFC DVDs ? ones about Gerrard's best 100 penalty shouts etc, etc... Then in one tiny section there is a single collection (literally about 10 copies) of Everton DVDs. I curiously looked to see if there was any of interest, but to no avail. They were all the same ? entitled "Everton get off to a flyer 2006". It was amateurishly styled and looked very unprofessionally published.
This was too much. FFS ? are we serious? "Everton get off to a flyer 2006" what a load of bullshit. Would that even interest an Evertonian? Is that our total contribution? I went to get a coffee shortly after and almost every other table appeared to have at least one LFC Liverpool 1 store carrier bag under it. It seemed almost everyone was buying from that fucking shop.
My general experience of Liverpool 1 was good, but I thought that a visitor to the city would only think there was only one team. We seriously have a marketing problem. I know it?s been said lots before ? but we really aren?t even famous in our own backyard. We have the commercial presence of Tranmere Rovers in our own city. That isn?t an exaggeration either. I was totally disgusted.
Why don?t we publish some DVDs about Tim Cahill, Dixie Dean, Alan Ball, or Graeme Sharpe? Surely we have interesting and entertaining content that would sell. "Everton get off to a flyer 2006" is almost comical. It reads like we only covered the first part of the season ?cos we were shite the rest of the it.
I really hope when the pathetic (Wyness driven) JJB tie-in deal closes we get a store in Liverpool 1. I hope we get some imagination and thoughts behind our merchandise and we push it ? in our own stores and in others. We need to give people a choice: Liverpool or Everton. At this moment in time there is no alternative to Liverpool as we are so poorly marketed.
I am thinking of sending a complaint to EFC asking why we are so poorly represented. But what?s the point they won?t give my thoughts/opinions two seconds. After all, I?m just a loyal prick who buys tickets, shirts and other crap because I was brought up to support EFC. They know they?ve got me anyway...
Phil Martin, Posted 30/03/2009 at 08:25:02
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I don’t know personally but he swears he got replies every time he put that in.
We asked 3 people, including a policeman, where this store was and no-one could tell us, so no sale there then. But he did buy his daughter, a Liverpool supporter a Gerrard shirt, because they were everywhere. Something's very wrong if you can?t find the sodding shop in the city centre.
We asked 3 people, including a policeman, where this store was and no one could tell us, so no sale there then.
But he did buy his daughter, a Liverpool supporter a Gerrard shirt, because they were everywhere. Somethings very wrong if you can’t find the sodding shop in the city centre.
I have just read that the Foreign Office are using LFC as a blueprint for controlling supporters on European trips. Ironic isn’t it!
For someone with the imagination to create top theatre productions it?s a pity he doesnt apply the same vision to EFC.
I have gone on for some time about the poor commercial income we get compared to other top prem clubs.
Spurs (albeit a London club) get around £40 million to our pitiful £2 million a year and for us to have no commercial presence in the city is pathetic.
Guaranteed this summer we will go through the usual bollocks of being linked with top players. And maybe Billy Bullshit will give his "yes, Moutinho is one I can say we are looking at" crap and people will again fall for his bullshit.
We will probably sell one of our top names and deplete an already painfully thin squad but then again Yakubu and Vaughan will be like having a new signing!!!!!!!!!!!
Kenwright is an arsehole of ernormous proportion and gets away with it each year. Someone will say ooo we bought Fellaini for ?15 million, but we sold Johnson for £12M and McFadden for £5M and personally don't think he's worth it although I hope he proves me wrong.
A few years ago, there were many accusations that the Club could not run a merchandising operation and that it should stick to football and retail professionals should be brought in.
Guess what? The Club listened! It signed up a commercial agreement with JJB who at the time were the biggest sports retailer in the land and were expanding at an impressive rate. When the news broke nobody (and I mean nobody) criticised the move and instead it was openly welcomed as a positive move forward.
At the time nobody could have foreseen the turbulent times ahead for the economy in general and JJB in particular. JJB is now not even a pale shadow of its former glorious self. Unfortunately its demise has had a direct effect on our ability to generate both profile and revenue. But as I said, nobody complained at the time, because it was seen to be the right move.
I would guess that the Club is tied into some sort of legally binding agreement regarding its commercial (retail) activities and until that runs its course it is powerless to do anything different.
Now is not the time to judge the Commercial department, that will come as and when the agreement with JJB concludes. I guess this won’t stop people whinging because that is all some are interested in. Remember, don’t let truth or reason get in the way of a good moan.
Now there is a reason for this. Espanol fans are famously anti-catalan and frequently fly the flag of Franco just to annoy their city neighbours, they also only make up less than 3% of the city’s football supporting population.
What is Everton’s excuse then?
The problem at EFC is no-one wants to do anything from the part-time chairman to the fully stretched CEO and the minions below.
It requires some leadership from the top and 4 CEOs in 8 years does not make an easy Job for Elstone who is probably spending all his time getting to the bottom of the mess that Wyness created. Take Elstone out and there is nobody else to champion any initiatives.
THAT lack of leadership and business acumen is the nub of the problem.
The other year I went toBarcelona. I thought I’d get myself an Espanyol top, nothing, just Barca everywhere. It was like they didn’t exist.
We are Espanyol!!!
JJB’s Everton ’connection’ started as a half-arsed, badly managed, imbalanced operation that aspired to reach mediocrity.
It then went downhill
I can understand (although that wasn’t the deal) that we’d have buggar-all presence in JJBs Blackburn, Burnley or Carlisle but Runcorn, Chester, Warrington? there they had more Chelsea and Arsenal gear - Everton were reduced to a spec at the back with the odd golf shirt and baby’s bib
The only quality, innovative Everton stuff stuff seems to come from private, entrepreneurial sources where none of the profits or kudos go to the club
Fitst thing Elstone should do is get himself and minions on an Appreciating and Ensuring Quality course
As you clearly know more about the internal workings of EFC than any of the rest of us, pray tell us of your information and sources that Robert Elstone and his team are NOT doing the things that you highlight to improve matters.
I am really interested in you providing a link to your criticism four years ago when the JJB arrangement was agreed. What’s that? You don’t have it to hand. Oh well, never mind!
Well perhaps we should leave it to the current lads and lasses at the Club to extracate the Club from this arrangement and to improve the situation instead of regurgitating criticism of the decisions of a former regime. You never know, if you give them enough oxygen (breathing space), then you may well be pleasantly surprised. I can’t believe that they aren’t as frustrated as the rest of us.
That's how a club shop should be run, everything the fan wants and every size kit in stock, it's a blueprint for us to follow because, let's face it, our club megastore is shit and is always out of stock of everything you want ? it's a joke, but the thing is I'm not laughing.
Wyness sold EFC?s presence in Liverpool City Centre for an extra £1M. I find ridiculous when you consider Chelsea, Liverpol and the rest are opening stores across the world. We closed all ours down.
It isn't always about attracting tourists to part with their cash. The fact is I (and probably most other fans) would pop in to an EFC megastore to have a look and potentially buy something. With a pathetic choice of merchandise on offer only at a JJB store this is less likely.
Stores aside we lag behind LFC in the merchandise dept. I specifically mentioned two examples of posters and DVDs... it's a total shambles and it explains why we dont even compete with Spurs, Villa or Newcastle financially.
As regards the commercial set up, as I recall, the club were actually losing so much money running the commercial operation (some hundreds of thousands of pounds, Ithink) that the deal with JJB did represent progress. But it’s a great shame that the effort expended by the CEO & Board on the Kirkby proposal hasn’t been targeted at our commercial operation. If it had maybe we’d be already making strides towards the £6million extra profit they hope to make after the move, perhaps we could even generate that much & more from a successful commercial operation!
When smaller clubs with smaller attendances make millions... I can only assume a great level of incompetence was a big factor in EFC deciding to outsource to JJB. Typical EFC of recent years.
Barcelona, one of the biggest clubs in the world, known all around the world with a consistant history of being one of the best in the world.
Liverpool - (as much as I hate to say it) same as above - (5 European Cups in3 of the last 4 decades)
Everton - A very loyal and committed fanbase from local area however not known world wide. Moments of being successful in histroy but not consistant enough and never winning the European Cup.
A hypocritical notes also derives from this. Consistantly on this site Liverpool fans are criticised for being foreign, but that the very reason for their increase in selling of mechandise. Foreign Tourists come to liverpool and buy liverpool shirts etc like they buy Beatles Memorabilia, they go home and with souvenirs of the citys most successful band and sports team, they aint gonna go back with everton stuff and echo and the bunnymen posters are they!
Yes the quality of the products in the everton store is low, but thats due to the lack of investment put into it, less investment is put into it when it is goin to struggle to break even never mind make a profit. Just like the coffee sold in the local ’caff’ down the road is gonna be a heck loads cheaper than in a posh coffee shop.
However its also a note to those who say, why bother playing in the uefa (micky mouse) cup?
When we played liege i saw hundreds of belgiums buying everton stuff at jjb, if we continue to play in europe - no matter what level - we will get recognised, but wasting money on something that will only lose money - especially noe and with our debt - is hardly the right thing to do.
What we must put with as Evertonions is that Liverpool are the richer, more successful and well known than Everton.
Were like the single guy who works at bargin booze, still lives at home and liverpool is brother whos is married, successful, better looking and has a beach house in spain. Unfortunately, we have to live with it.
The only way to be successful is to look at best practice and apply the same principles that are found in EXCELLENT clubs.
LFC were not much bigger than Tranmere and had an inferior stadium before Shankly went there in the late 50s and early 60s.
It was only the success of the 70s and their reinvestment in the stadium and the brand that made them the commercial success thay are today (despite the millions they waste on players and owners).
Spurs are no Barcelona nor Liverpool but make significantly more than us on commercial activities.
That is the thing with successful marketing you spend time and money developing the brand not making excuses for not having any.
For our chairman to say "Only Newcastle supporters buy shirts" is nothing short of dereliction of duty.
While we think like a second rate club we will remain a "second rate" club.
The recent change in CEO did not change the culture NOR plans that were already laid down by the board and remains IMO a totally disastrous course.
We remain headlong on a course to Kirkby with poor marketing and merchandising plans with a yes man for CEO.
I remember popping into an Everton store in the city around 3 years ago, whilst in Liverpool for a week due to work.
The shop was empty and no one approached me with a smile or an offer to help. There was just crap in there. Miserable staff piss me off, so feck it I refused to buy anything due to the moddy staff.
You are right though ? there?s no sign that Everton belong or play in Liverpool.
Everton as a Liverpool entity worthy of support exists only in the hearts and minds of its own fans. Any link the club has with the city is slowly but surely eroding. I am sick and tired of telling people where and in which city and part thereof that our home ground lies. A move to a new home inside the city boundary won?t change that.
Can you imagine the confusion in trying to explain why our ground is in Toxteth or wherever and nowhere near the district of Everton.. I don?t claim to know the answers but does anyone?
The mere fact that the area is called Liverpool 1 speaks for its self. So why would anything Everton want to be associated with that title? Its just another cock up by whoever is responsible for the promoting the image of our great club.
No-one said we could predict the future with the JJB connection - no-one moaned at it’s inception because we didn’t know what would happen
Apply the truth and reason standards you keep advocating and you can’t fail to see how badly this deal worked for EFC in terms of placement, volume, standard and availablity of quality Everton-related products
It’s not moaning, it’s stating the bloody facts
Its pathetic, I too saw the stack of Liverpool FC memorabillia everywhere in HMV and the like.
When I eventually met back up with the family I had to admit that the videos they were clutching probably had more shots of Everton players than anything else I had seen all day.
It boils my piss
Frankly, even if it lost money they would be worth it for having that presence.
p.s. JJB in general do a good job of advertising us, genius! having the Crest in that walkway sitting proudly above and looking down on the RS store and the manequins in the doorway are always dressed in Everton shirts - and inside they not only sell the kits, but wallpaper, balls, DVD’s and a lot more - of course they have to sell Manc/Chelsea RS kits because they are a National Company, and they recognise the more diverse kits you sell, the more money you make. Note: you can ONLY buy RS kits in JJB none off the other "extras"
The reason being our address will be.
Everton 2
Liverpool 1
Liverpool
Merseyside.
Funny but true!!
I?m sorry but your arguments are poorly thought out. I said in my previous posts that "we dont even compete with Spurs, Villa or Newcastle financially". I never mentioned Barcelona and would never compare EFC with them.
My entire point is that when people complain about the media coverage LFC get. Complain about the Devon/Irish/Essex reds wearing their RS replica jerseys. We have to realise we don't even represent ourselves properly in our own city, let alone rest of the UK or god forbid a different continent.
Kev Clark, I can honestly say I didn't notice any EFC gear in W H Smith. The fact is to a visitor or casual shopper in the city they will see the numerous LFC stores and possibly notice several JJB stores. If they enter the JJB stores they will see EFC, LFC and other clubs? merchandise. The wouldn't even notice a secondary EFC crest on the wall. We don't even get any more shelf space then Liverpool do ? and JJB are supposed to be our only retail outlet.
I disagree that we shouldn't be represented in Liverpool 1 because its called ?Liverpool? -otherwise (based on that logic) why even be based in a city called ?Liverpool?.
I also disagree that we can't market ourselves because we aren't named after a city. Arsenal don't seem to suffer. Also West Ham, and Tottenham are areas of London ? like Everton is to Liverpool. Yet we lag behind these clubs too.
All this gets away from the basic point anyway... EFC can't raise its own profile in a city it's been based in for 130 years. It doesn't bode well for the future.
That is until, God forbid, we become ?... the Only Premier League Club in Kirkby?
Spurs have a very rich owner, always have had one so can afford the inital outlay in advertising space, production costs etc. Things like this take a while to become profitable, we have never had such an owner or that amount of money. Spurs are also from London - a big big help.
Villa are the biggest and most successful team from their region, aswell as having a billionaire owner - which helps as sky will constantly big up villa as the ’only challenges’ for the sky 4 (more to do with backhanders than the fact people like Martin O’Neill) while ignoring us.
You cannot compare evertons strategy to Barcelonas or Liverpools. Fine you say Liverpool are ’lucky’ because its all based on success starting in 70s from and liverpool were inferior before then, ok, true, however that was a period when you could win the league one season and be relegated the next. That was in the 50s not 2009, when money means everything.
If I opened a business with the business model McDonalds - big building, lots of staff, constant production of foods, lots of advertising - I would go bust in a week, simple. A key word noone has used so far is BUSINESS.
Do you honestly believe that the people working for the club have never studied business, or do you believe they have and thought "you know what, we could make loads of money by doing this, but feck it, I enjoy my monthly meetings with the bank manager"
I am not Pro Kenwright, I am very much aganst him, however to make Everton a brand requires lots of money.
How would you feel if in the summer we didnt sign anyone, but BK came out and said, "dont worry guys, we have just opened a store in the city centre that gonna cost millions to run, but maybe, just maybe in 5-6 years it’ll break even (maybe longer, especially with a recession that looks to last 10+ years, and Liverpool is a city that will suffer alot during this period) and a few extra guys from Germany will have an Everton shirt"
As we dont have money, we have to go on the success first route - just like Liverpool did.
How does being from London help a club open up a few more club shops? Surely the sheer number of other London clubs would increase competition and therefore restrict your target market based on this alone?
We are in a two team city and you (and BK) are suggesting we cannot run a club shop in our own city centre.
Forget building a brand, lets just start with a basics -having a real fkn presence in our own city centre. Surely it doesnt cost millions to rent a store in the city centre. It isnt the same as running your own business like the example you gave. How many businesses have almost 30,000 subscribing/paying fans? The market is there and we need to be seen to be competitive. I’m not fussed about visitors to the city who buy a shirt and never return again.
What about the younger more local kids who maybe dont have parents who actively follow a team or even football? If little Johnny decides to start playing football, and watch it on TV, and buy a shirt. What choices does he have? They’ll see LFC shite many times before possbily some EFC gear.
I dont see how opening a few stores around the north west is going to cost millions and millions -especialy if they’re selling. Maybe BK and his team need to look at their own business acumen if they cant even build a successful company with an estimated UK fanbase of 250,000.
Believe it when I see it...
City Population
London 7.2 Million
Birmingham 992000
Leeds 720000
Glasgow 560000
Sheffield 512000
Bradford 467000
Edinburgh 450000
Liverpool 440000
Manchester 420000
Bristol 380000
Wakefield 316000
Cardiff 310000
Coventry 305000
Nottingham 285000
Leicester 280000
Sunderland 280000
Belfast 280000
Newcastle upon Tyne 259000
Should we compare our marketing and merchandising strategy against our fellow city inhabitants and or the flag ships of merchandising in the football world? Noooo course not. Lets not try and do better ey.
There are plenty on this site that will tell you what a wonderfull thing it will be for EFC when we move to the Tescodome in Kirkby, even our chairman and CEO are well up for it so where's the problem?
Kenwright and his lapdogs have promised us another 10,000 fans once we move and corporate types will come flooding in... Why do we need a high profile bang in the middle of the city center when we have the promised land to look forward to?
Thanks Bill ? you're a real pal.
On a side note with the close links BK is forming with Tesco why not sign-up for them to promote and sell EFC gear in their stores.
The thought of just that scares the shit out of me.
"Everton FC the pride of Knowsley"
We all know that Kendall moving on and Heysel put an end to our future dominance but what is happening now is a disgrace to the club and the city... BK is a prick who dreams too much and never spends time with the diehard Toffees from Liverpool who could make him understand that Kirkby is the end game. The missed opportunity to get down the docks has cost us the chance to push all of this red shite glory hunting crap, right into the background of the Liverpool scene.
If you give me the choice of a 3-0 win over Chelsea in the FA Cup Final or Everton being refused Kirkby... well let's put it this way... I am happy with the history we have now.
I'm sure most of us get the obligatory Dad's EFC pint glass for Father's Day but that's where it ends. Let the RS live in the crass rip-off commercial world ? all the Limerick Reds and Sons of Shankly from Stoke. We don't need all that crap.
Get a pint and the occasional pie, watch the blues, have another pint and thank your lucky stars that we are real and grounded and in it because it's our heritage and not because Setanta says so. Matalan clothes with crap badges sewn on are for kopites ? get yourself a pair of Y3?s and a Belstaff. COYB!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
If I buy a part for my classic car from Rimmer Bros I don’t pay VAT!! COZ VAT ONLY APPLIES TO INTERNAL UK SALES.
Would the sell more overseas with a better pricing model. They seem to be inbed with Tesco when it siuts them why not follow their business model of stack it high sell it cheap
a) shows why this club can't financially compete with so-called lesser clubs.
b) excuses the gross incompetence displayed by the board, marketing dept, and PR team at our club.
Get with the times and realise that if you dont push the club commerically then you get left behind.
Like a mistreated abused dog we crawl on our belly to the bastards, hoping for just one small token of their respect. Lickspittle is not part of my makeup Tony but if that is your wont then lap it up.
An Everton 2 store next to Liverpool 1 would be perfect - just a shame it wasn’t bthyere for the Capital of Culture year with all the tourists.
You can blame Fatty Wyness for that one whilst BK must take some blame for allowing the blubbery Scot to throw away conrol of our destiny for a n extra million pounds from JJB.
JJB’s own demise recently should also act as a cautionary tale for those saying Sports Retail is easy. Certainly next season is going to be quite a commercial shock for some Clubs. £40 for a nylon shirt? Not any more in these hard pressed times. I’m not expecting prices to be halved or anything too drastic, but £5 - £10 off current prices would be a sensible move.
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1 Posted 30/03/2009 at 15:06:14
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Those who understand need no explanation. Those who don?t, could someone please phone the club and tell them...