The Mail Bag
Is Jo the new Manny?
Comments (44)
Just a thought on Jo, who started slowly but appears to be running into form just at the right moment (damn him being cup-tied).
He has a great first touch (which is always an indicator of someone with top class ability), finishes well, has pace, skill and appears to like playing here.
He's on loan yet you can already imagine the calls for us to sign him up. BUT, he's gonna be expensive, at least £10mil, and other clubs will be interested.
Could this be the start of another Manny saga?
Fran Mitchell, Posted 05/04/2009 at 21:14:10
Comments
Note: the following content is not moderated or vetted by the site owners at the time of submission. Comments are the responsibility of the poster. Disclaimer
At this moment, I would say that we should indeed do a Manny Part II and sign Jo on loan for another season.
He likes to run back to collect the ball and go wide to stretch the defence. That would allow the Yak and Saha play in their natural position down the middle. I don’t think we can afford him though.
I can only see Jo getting better as his match fitness improves, and with increased strength, both physically and mentally which is required when new to the Premier League, he will be a great assett. No-one can doubt his ability, go to You Tube and see him knocking them in at Moscow from all angles, both feet, distance, tap-ins, headers, even off the floodlights! You could question the standard of defending, but these were precision finishes and you have to hit the target to rack them up
His stock rises weekly and I can only expect an extended loan as we cannot afford him and City will not want an unhappy player there. What surprises me is that Jo states he is happier at Everton than City, yet he has Brazilian teamates there ? that says something about Everton, and maybe some bigger problem at City.
A great performance yesterday, lads... COYBs.
His stock rises weekly and I can only expect an extended loan as we cannot afford him and City will not want an unhappy player there. What surprises me is that Jo states he is happier at Everton than City, yet he has Brazilian teamates there ? that says something about Everton, and maybe some bigger problem at City.
A great performance yesterday, lads... COYBs.
From what I see, he flatters to deceive. If he manages to actually do it against top notch opponents he could actually be a good buy. But as usual, nothing is quite as straightforward when you support the Toffees...
Fran, I couldn’t agree less.
His first touch is awful. He has no work rate, he’s not brave and I don’t think David Moyes will go anywhere near him in the summer. He is nothing more than a stop gap signing.
His first touch is awful. He has no work rate, he’s not brave and I don’t think David Moyes will go anywhere near him in the summer. He is nothing more than a stop gap signing.
Good first touch?
Pace?
His goal tally is flattering to decieve. But then again that?s what strikers are for.
He?s the sort of player I could see going on a very long goal drought. Usually holds on to possession too long, dives, has a very weak shot and isn?t very aware of other players...
I don?t think I would be happy if we paid more than £5 mill.
Pace?
His goal tally is flattering to decieve. But then again that?s what strikers are for.
He?s the sort of player I could see going on a very long goal drought. Usually holds on to possession too long, dives, has a very weak shot and isn?t very aware of other players...
I don?t think I would be happy if we paid more than £5 mill.
Jo started slowly you say? If he got 2 goals on debut, I can?t imagine if he?d started at the pace you expect...
Jo is a class player, I really hope we buy him. Straight swap for the Yak maybe. Would City take that deal?
I like Jo but I wouldn’t swap him for the Yak.
I don?t think he will be playing for us next season anyways. So arguing whether he is good enough or not is a waste of time. Hughes has already been quoted as saying he wants him back and even if he was up for sale, I seriously doubt us being able to afford him. So let's just enjoy his goals whilst we can.
I don?t think Jo is playing a major part in Hughes?s plans, and in any case, what odds Hughes still being manager by the end of the summer? The story about City being ready to offer Jo to us in part exchange for two of our top players gives a better insight to their real intentions. They don?t want to appear too eager to off-load him, so they can jack up the price.
If you have doubts about Jo, check out some of the action (there?s lots) of him on YouTube from CSKA days. Bearing in mind this is a young kid a long way from home, very different country & climate.
Pay particular attention to his first touch, work rate and pace. All can be seen in abundance.
Personally I don't think we can afford him, so almost a waste of time debating. But he is still only a kid and has the ability to be a top player. Contrary to the suggestions of some here, the freely available EVIDENCE is that he works hard & is a real footballer.
Pay particular attention to his first touch, work rate and pace. All can be seen in abundance.
Personally I don't think we can afford him, so almost a waste of time debating. But he is still only a kid and has the ability to be a top player. Contrary to the suggestions of some here, the freely available EVIDENCE is that he works hard & is a real footballer.
Nick ? any idea who those ?two top players? might be? We can?t afford to swap two for one given the size of the squad, let alone anyone halfway decent. Shandy Andy and Ruddy maybe?
Gareth Humphreys, If Moyes doesn?t rate Jo, why would he start him yesterday above Saha?
Saha started at Pompey and hence is fit. The League is a priority so he?s not saving Saha for the cup
So, why (if Moyes doesn?t rate him), start Jo instead of Saha???
Saha started at Pompey and hence is fit. The League is a priority so he?s not saving Saha for the cup
So, why (if Moyes doesn?t rate him), start Jo instead of Saha???
I always find that You Tube is a much better analysis tool than actually watching him play full live games.
I’m still unsure about Jo, I know goals are what count but I still don’t think he’s done enough to warrant what City want us to pay for him. If we could get another season long loan out of him, I’d be happy.
Kase Chow I?m not debating whether Moyes rates either of them above one another, I think he?s glad to have a choice but the very simple answer to your question about why play Jo instead of Saha is that we have an FA Cup semi against the manure in a couple of weeks, in which Jo can't play, and let's face it King Louis is more delicate than a newborn baby!
Kase, make no mistake about it, we have qualified for Europe next season. As such it would be nice to win something this season and that is in the FA Cup. Why you would think the league is a priority is beyond me as we will finish either 5th or 6th.
I have said it before and I will say it again. Jo has no confidence, no pace, no strength doesn?t like a tackle and hasn?t got a shift in him. We desperatley needed a striker in the window and he was available because he couldn?t get a sniff at City ? mainly due to the reasons I have stated above. Anyone who is comparing him to Yakubu needs to have a word with themselves.
Please don?t be fooled by his home goals tally ? 1 was a penalty, and 2 were keeper errors. I hope he keeps scoring them though but he is about as far from a David Moyes player as I can think of.
I have said it before and I will say it again. Jo has no confidence, no pace, no strength doesn?t like a tackle and hasn?t got a shift in him. We desperatley needed a striker in the window and he was available because he couldn?t get a sniff at City ? mainly due to the reasons I have stated above. Anyone who is comparing him to Yakubu needs to have a word with themselves.
Please don?t be fooled by his home goals tally ? 1 was a penalty, and 2 were keeper errors. I hope he keeps scoring them though but he is about as far from a David Moyes player as I can think of.
Poor first touch? Like for his first goal yesterday? His very good first touch made that goal.... and that goal was a carbon copy of one he scored not so long ago.
Or maybe people think he has a poor first touch because of the one he pulled out of the air with his back to goal before hitting the back of the net? I think I?ve been watching different games to some of you.
Admittedly I don't think he has great pace, but then hes not slow either and his technique/positioning seems to give him the yard he needs to get a shot in. To me his left foot looks very good and I actually think his finishing is comparable in quality to Saha/Yak.
That all said I?ve no idea whether he will be here next season. I?d like to think Moyes will be given the cash to fund him(or keep him on loan), and I think Jo/Saha/Yak and Vaughan would be among the best set of strikers in the league.
However, I think we are probably more in need of a creative wide player, so I?d expect that is where our transfer money will end up.
Or maybe people think he has a poor first touch because of the one he pulled out of the air with his back to goal before hitting the back of the net? I think I?ve been watching different games to some of you.
Admittedly I don't think he has great pace, but then hes not slow either and his technique/positioning seems to give him the yard he needs to get a shot in. To me his left foot looks very good and I actually think his finishing is comparable in quality to Saha/Yak.
That all said I?ve no idea whether he will be here next season. I?d like to think Moyes will be given the cash to fund him(or keep him on loan), and I think Jo/Saha/Yak and Vaughan would be among the best set of strikers in the league.
However, I think we are probably more in need of a creative wide player, so I?d expect that is where our transfer money will end up.
Been excellent at home, but gone missing away from home, verdict still out on him. If we have any spare dosh I would go for Vagner Love in the summer!
His all around play leaves lots to be desired and it's not worth discussing his purchase until he shows what he can do for the rest of his loan period. Lets see him do his stuff at Wembley against Man Utd before anyone starts championing his cause as a good buy.
I really don't think we have any top class strikers by world class standards on the books!! Yak scores but does nothing else!! None have real pace and ball control... Saha has the best ball control of who we have... The Yak and Anichebe have the strength but are either inconsistent or lazy... I'm afraid that Jo is still not proven to me as his workrate is not good, he is inconsistent and lacks pace.
I reckon everyone is jumping too quickly and should wait and see what Jo?s worth and in any case... he may well be out of our reach.
Presumably as always we?ll be short of cash in the summer, it's not so much is Jo worth it (he?s made a good start and looks better by the game as well) but what our biggest priority is in the summer. With the Yak back next season I think our biggest priority should be a big money midfielder, somone with the class of Arteta to help feed the Yak. And I?d rather have that than sign Jo.
Trevor the only "stuff" he will do at Wembley is sitting on his arse watching the game from the stands. He is cup tied.
He has a good left peg but the rest of him is powder puff but we are in the business of results and goals so long may it continue........or at least until the end of the season anyhow!!
He has a good left peg but the rest of him is powder puff but we are in the business of results and goals so long may it continue........or at least until the end of the season anyhow!!
Poor first touch? Surely a joke.
He don't have AJ?s pace, but he aint slow a la Beattie.
Moaning because he scores tap-ins... well, even Pele sored tap-ins; if you score you score. AJ and Beattie never scored tap-ins, mainly because their reading of the game and runs in the box were not timed well.
Tim Cahill scores a tap-in and it's down to genius timing. Jo does and it's because of a mistake. Well, most goals generally result from a mistake, it's good players who take advantage of mistakes.
And he don't have AJ?s workrate, or Marcus Bent's, but he's a far superior player to them. It ain't like he?s Berbatov on a period.
Critiano Ronaldo doesn't have a fantastic workrate, generally the best attacking players don't (unless a centre-mid) because they save their energy, wait for the hard-working players to get the ball to them, and bang!
Football is about mixing it up; for years, Everton have been hard-working, one-dimensional but effective (as moaned about to great extent on here). A player like Jo, especially if Arteta was feeding him, and an improved Fellaini, would guarantee goals.
You think Jo will go on goal droughts... really? What a surprise, a bit like Rooney, Torres, Berbatov, Drogba, Anelka, Tevez, Adebayor and every striker has done this season, and always will.
He is worth far more than £5 million, maybe not 19mil yet like City payed, but £10-12 million definitely (AJ cost £13mil with add-ons, Robbie Keane £19mil, Bellamy £13mil).
The main problem will be keeping him; City won't sell on cheap and I?m sure clubs in Spain like Athletico, Valencia (after selling Villa) and Italy ? Inter (who are gonna lose Adriano, Crespo and Cruz), Juve etc would all be interested. I doubt a 2nd loan will be viable, especially as City will look at us a rivals next season.
I see him as the new Manny as we will all want him come the end of season (he will probably be our season top scorer ? currently Cahill and Felliani with 7 each).
He don't have AJ?s pace, but he aint slow a la Beattie.
Moaning because he scores tap-ins... well, even Pele sored tap-ins; if you score you score. AJ and Beattie never scored tap-ins, mainly because their reading of the game and runs in the box were not timed well.
Tim Cahill scores a tap-in and it's down to genius timing. Jo does and it's because of a mistake. Well, most goals generally result from a mistake, it's good players who take advantage of mistakes.
And he don't have AJ?s workrate, or Marcus Bent's, but he's a far superior player to them. It ain't like he?s Berbatov on a period.
Critiano Ronaldo doesn't have a fantastic workrate, generally the best attacking players don't (unless a centre-mid) because they save their energy, wait for the hard-working players to get the ball to them, and bang!
Football is about mixing it up; for years, Everton have been hard-working, one-dimensional but effective (as moaned about to great extent on here). A player like Jo, especially if Arteta was feeding him, and an improved Fellaini, would guarantee goals.
You think Jo will go on goal droughts... really? What a surprise, a bit like Rooney, Torres, Berbatov, Drogba, Anelka, Tevez, Adebayor and every striker has done this season, and always will.
He is worth far more than £5 million, maybe not 19mil yet like City payed, but £10-12 million definitely (AJ cost £13mil with add-ons, Robbie Keane £19mil, Bellamy £13mil).
The main problem will be keeping him; City won't sell on cheap and I?m sure clubs in Spain like Athletico, Valencia (after selling Villa) and Italy ? Inter (who are gonna lose Adriano, Crespo and Cruz), Juve etc would all be interested. I doubt a 2nd loan will be viable, especially as City will look at us a rivals next season.
I see him as the new Manny as we will all want him come the end of season (he will probably be our season top scorer ? currently Cahill and Felliani with 7 each).
And we probably won't get him, unfortunately, as he will probably be in Brazil's World Cup squad ? and that would be nice having a Brazilian World Cup International in our squad. Long way from days of Beattie for sure.
Trevor Lynes - Jo can?t play at Wembley against Man Utd because he his cup tied. Just like he was against Villa and Middlesbrough so it might be difficult for him to prove his worth in that particular game.
He is a bit hit and miss at the moment, however, he is only 21 and in different country playing a totally different style of football to what he is used to. You always need to give foreign lads a good season to settle in. Look at people like Henry and Bergkamp.
Oh and people who have been having a go at Felli all season long. That?s what ? 7 goals for him now. He? s going to end up as our top goal scorer this season. Not bad in your first season.
He is a bit hit and miss at the moment, however, he is only 21 and in different country playing a totally different style of football to what he is used to. You always need to give foreign lads a good season to settle in. Look at people like Henry and Bergkamp.
Oh and people who have been having a go at Felli all season long. That?s what ? 7 goals for him now. He? s going to end up as our top goal scorer this season. Not bad in your first season.
Vagner Love, No No No No No.
He?ll cost more than Jo, he?s older than Jo, he hasnt had the customary 1 year of adapting to English football that south american players require unlike Jo, he?s average, would be more like Alfonso Alves.
He has more pace and thats it. Leave him to City, he?ll be a flop.
Jo aint the finished article, not by a long way, he?s only 21, considering Anichebe is 20-21 you can see Jo?s quality. He is only just getting match-fitness, and just beginning to fit into Everton's system. But you can see his raw talent, he could be moulded into a great Everon player.
Arteta in his first half season was ok, a bit off the pace, needed to bulk-up a bit, couldn't really hack it as a centre mid, lacked match fitness and confidence. Now we build our team around him.
He?ll cost more than Jo, he?s older than Jo, he hasnt had the customary 1 year of adapting to English football that south american players require unlike Jo, he?s average, would be more like Alfonso Alves.
He has more pace and thats it. Leave him to City, he?ll be a flop.
Jo aint the finished article, not by a long way, he?s only 21, considering Anichebe is 20-21 you can see Jo?s quality. He is only just getting match-fitness, and just beginning to fit into Everton's system. But you can see his raw talent, he could be moulded into a great Everon player.
Arteta in his first half season was ok, a bit off the pace, needed to bulk-up a bit, couldn't really hack it as a centre mid, lacked match fitness and confidence. Now we build our team around him.
Not sure on him to be honest, big risk I reckon...
I am split about Jo. Some games he is none existent, clumsy and has the touch of Brett Angell. Others he is busy and involved, skillfull and his touch is that of a brazilian. He seems especially out of games away from home. His goals tally against weaker teams is good, but we have not seen him against the top teams. In short it is hard to make a snap decision.
I remember Adebayor at Arsenal in his firs couple of seasons being a similar sort of player, inconsistent and liable to score against the weaker teams. Adebayor bulked out with muscle considerably and is now a pretty handy front man. Granted he is not perfect and a different player in may ways to Jo, but the point I am trying to make is Jo is young and it would be nice to try to bring him on and develop him. However, for £10 million + that is a lot of a gamble. Not sure it is a luxury we could afford.
I remember Adebayor at Arsenal in his firs couple of seasons being a similar sort of player, inconsistent and liable to score against the weaker teams. Adebayor bulked out with muscle considerably and is now a pretty handy front man. Granted he is not perfect and a different player in may ways to Jo, but the point I am trying to make is Jo is young and it would be nice to try to bring him on and develop him. However, for £10 million + that is a lot of a gamble. Not sure it is a luxury we could afford.
He’s done alright for us at Goodison. No more than that. For those of you who say he has some great stuff on YouTube, I’d say what does that prove? James Beattie scored some great goals at Southampton but never cut it in a blue shirt. There are countless other examples.
He’s a decent player but he won’t cut it against the better teams and he is definitely overpriced.
He’s a decent player but he won’t cut it against the better teams and he is definitely overpriced.
And I, like many, find that slagging off all & everything makes people yawn with mind numbing boredom.
It’s crap, he’s crap, they’re crap, were crap, bla bla bla. 5 goal in 7 games clearly not good enough for someone’s world of perfection & cynicism.
Too busy in business to go to Russia to see Jo. Hence YouTube. Dreadful service YouTube don’t you think? Can’t trust anything you see. I mean, clearly the last 7 games are far more relevant than the preceding 3 years.
Seen anything you like recently? or is there simply no limit to your dissatisfaction.
Can anyone recall anything ever posted on TW by this guy that didn’t slag off or insult someone or something?
It’s crap, he’s crap, they’re crap, were crap, bla bla bla. 5 goal in 7 games clearly not good enough for someone’s world of perfection & cynicism.
Too busy in business to go to Russia to see Jo. Hence YouTube. Dreadful service YouTube don’t you think? Can’t trust anything you see. I mean, clearly the last 7 games are far more relevant than the preceding 3 years.
Seen anything you like recently? or is there simply no limit to your dissatisfaction.
Can anyone recall anything ever posted on TW by this guy that didn’t slag off or insult someone or something?
He does have a good touch and he is intelligent but he’s still not used to the pace or closing down of this League, he’s not used to having a 6ft plus defender on his back every time he receives the ball with his back to goal. He also takes too long thinking about what he?s doing, it does happen with new players.
It?s quite obvious he still needs to adapt for me, he?s got potential but he?s inconsistent and still learning the League. Once he does he could be a very useful player in this League. I wouldn?t spend big on him, we simply can?t afford too but a loan would be perfect.
If Hughes doesn?t rate him and no one comes in with a reasonable bid that might be possible, we?d be able to see him over a full season and see how he adapts.
It?s quite obvious he still needs to adapt for me, he?s got potential but he?s inconsistent and still learning the League. Once he does he could be a very useful player in this League. I wouldn?t spend big on him, we simply can?t afford too but a loan would be perfect.
If Hughes doesn?t rate him and no one comes in with a reasonable bid that might be possible, we?d be able to see him over a full season and see how he adapts.
I think that?s a fair assessment of him Conor. But the problem is... in order to see him over a full season ? we either have to drop Yakubu, or buy midfielders who allow us to use a 4-4-2...
This summer could be interesting if Moyes signals about early signings is a shot over Kenwright's bow; however, it could equally be a repeat of last year's shenanigans.
This summer could be interesting if Moyes signals about early signings is a shot over Kenwright's bow; however, it could equally be a repeat of last year's shenanigans.
Even having him around would be useful, he’s always an option. With Saha and Vaughan we know there going to get injuries, Victor is only effective on the right wing and Yakubu is only just coming back from a serious injury, one that’s hard to recover from.
He might not play week in week out (who knows?) but I think with the Europa cup (hopefully) we’ll have enough games to see him and see what he’s about.
In terms of formation I think in Arteta we now have a central midfielder who can help us play 4-4-2, no problem. We just need a pacy winger and I think where set.
He might not play week in week out (who knows?) but I think with the Europa cup (hopefully) we’ll have enough games to see him and see what he’s about.
In terms of formation I think in Arteta we now have a central midfielder who can help us play 4-4-2, no problem. We just need a pacy winger and I think where set.
He’s no better than Marcus Bent, where at least Bent could huff and puff and put himself about a bit against a strong Centre Half, Jo hasn’t got that ability. Also, his snatched shot, when unchallenged in the first half at Portsmouth was so poor he could of been playing Third division in the Wirral Junior league. You can see why he couldn’t hold down a place at Shitty. But I suppose as long as he is wearing the blue jersey I will get behind him. I hope he does prove me wrong - In Moyes we trust. COYB
I would not spend any of the transfer budget on Jo. He?s nowhere near as good as some of the people on this site are suggesting; however, he is not as bad as others have said. He would definitely be worth taking on loan again for the season but if City are unwilling we need to cut our losses.
We won?t have much money to spend in the summer so that priority has to be a wide player and a central midfielder. I think Moutinho should be a priority before he sets his sights on Champions League football.
Marcus Bent scored 8 goals in 44 starts for Everton, Jo has 5 goals in 7 starts for Everton. A massive difference to be honest.
Both Jo and Fellaini seem to be from the same mould. Brilliant one minute, especially at home and then clumsy and inneffective another, especially away from home.
However, I am pleased to see Moyesy is getting away from the one-trick (granted, it?s a good trick to have) ponies who will run around and tackle hard all day, but offer little else.
When you think back and you compare Fellaini to the likes of Pembridge and Kilbane and you compare Jo to the likes of Beattie and Ferguson you can see that for all the tenacity and 100% effort those players gave us, their skill levels were way behind these two. Jo took that first goal superbly yesterday and Fellaini was all over the show.
We are evolving nicely as Moyesy is maturing into a cleverer and more thoughtful Manager. It?s slower than it might be with BK in charge, but it?s going the right way.
However, I am pleased to see Moyesy is getting away from the one-trick (granted, it?s a good trick to have) ponies who will run around and tackle hard all day, but offer little else.
When you think back and you compare Fellaini to the likes of Pembridge and Kilbane and you compare Jo to the likes of Beattie and Ferguson you can see that for all the tenacity and 100% effort those players gave us, their skill levels were way behind these two. Jo took that first goal superbly yesterday and Fellaini was all over the show.
We are evolving nicely as Moyesy is maturing into a cleverer and more thoughtful Manager. It?s slower than it might be with BK in charge, but it?s going the right way.
In Moyes we trust, gentlemen!!
Pace?
You have to be joking?
You have to be joking?
Yes but, Connor, the team is more important than idividual stats. We finished 4th with Bent in the team, he helped to get the best out of Cahill and the team as a whole. Remember Gary Lineker scored lots of goals too but he didn't help us win the league.
Good on ya Karl, summed it up nicely mate!!!
This team has evolved ever so well, slowly slowy, the class is building to the point supporters expect us to be top 4.
Kudos Moyes and the players he’s brought in....including Jo!! :)
This team has evolved ever so well, slowly slowy, the class is building to the point supporters expect us to be top 4.
Kudos Moyes and the players he’s brought in....including Jo!! :)
Does anyone know if Jo can play against Man City in 3 weeks or is it one of those rules like when Tim Howard could not play against United the year he was on loan?
The cliche goes the second touch is a tackle, with Jo it?s a header. Moyes would have to be a fool (which he?s not) to spend his entire budget on a striker when he?s Yakubu and Vaughan to start next seaon with Saha. To even enter negotiations with the names Arteta and Lescott (as was mentioned in last week?s Echo) on the table would be lunacy. Jo helped us out of a hole as we did for him.
Also, where does all the affection for Fernandes (sorry, Manny) come from. He?s an average showboater that caused as many problems for our defence as the opposition?s in the twenty something games he played for us. He then betrayed us, crawled back out of desparation and performed pathetically for the rest of his time here. Why is he spoken of with such affection by some? I?d categorise him with Kenny Sampsom, Jesper Blumqvist and David Ginola in that their Everton career?s are barely memorable.
© ToffeeWeb
-sm.jpg)
-sm.jpg)
-sm.jpg)
1 Posted 06/04/2009 at 01:31:05
Report abuse
Interesting how a partnership of Yak and Jo will turn out.