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Well, well, well... who would've believed it??? Hibbert and Osman costing us a match...
Last week, I was slaughtered for having a go at these two Championship players and yet all the chickens came home to roost today. Alex Ferguson saved them from a roasting at Wembley with his team selection; Mark Hughes wasn't so kind today.
I did warn that playing Tony and Leon in the same team on the right flank was a disaster waiting to happen. Well, now it's happened. It is devastating to see Everton players with so little talent getting a shirt week-in, week-out ? no matter how bad they play. Yobo was just as bad.
My aritcle last week Decision Time for Moyes had 97 comments ? most of which had personal attacks in them: Tosser, Gobshite, etc... "go and crawl under a stone"...
Well I hope the 97 will come out today and tell me I know nothing about football now I have been exonerated by today's dismal showings.
Osman was crap at Wembley, so was Hibbert. Osman was crap at Chelsea and was crap again today. In fact, he has been crap all season. Waste of a blue shirt every game. When will the manager and some fans wake to who the slackers are at this club???
Osman and Hibbert must go and never be played in the same side again. The right flank resembled Rourke's Drift today and you can't say I didn't see it coming. I hate seeing those two in an Everton kit and the way they folded up today proves me right all along.
Please come on, boys and girls, and give me both barrels again. I can't wait for the Osman and Hibbert excuses to come flooding in. Giving a 100% doesn't qualify you as a good player. I would give a 100% if I got picked but I would still be shite.
Tony Marsh, Posted 25/04/2009 at 13:53:53
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Anyway, the result's not the important factor here, if we?ve lost Jags for the Final that?ll be the real loss.
Although i do agree Osman was at his very worst today.
Poorest team we have lost to all season possibly? City were not good, they just wanted it a bit more in the first half.
Howard - Should have got hold of their first goal, can?t be faulted for the second one. 6
Hibbo - Horrid first half, slightly improved in the second. 5
Baines - Very good first half, not quite so good in the second. 7
Jags - Our best player until he got injured. 7
Yobo - Really poor game by his standards. 5
Neville - Put in another decent shift. 6
Pienaar - Hot/cold 6
Castillo - Started brightly, but faded away. 5
Osman - Never got into the game 4
Fellaini - Pisspoor in the first half, got subbed just when it looked like he was getting into the game. 5
Saha - Oh no! 4
Vaughan - Can?t fault him for effort, but not looking the biz. 5
Gosling - Nice goal 6
Cahill - Never really got into it. 5
I think we should defintely sign Castillo and maybe not Saha. Excellent goal from Gosling, who should be given some more game time and Given very lucky not to be sent off. Poor day in the office but no disaster.
Without doubt he has done his knee ligaments. I can't believe the luck of our club - we are effectively without our best three players before our biggest game in 15 years. Too gutted to even think about how shite Hibbert and Osman are.
Moyes is more than happy to let the lads have a day off. The worrying thing is the injury to Jags ? hopefully not another ?won?t play again this season?.
It?s bad enough that we collapse at home and lose what should have been a winnable game that would have taken us above Villa, but I hate it when I see Evertonians write that. However, it is par for the course that Tony?s salvo would cause the apologists to fire back with this weak lilly-livered capitulation bullshit.
We are Everton. Have some pride! Everton will NEVER be great again while fans can still come out with lines like that.
Yes, it?s disappointing. Yes, it?s a game we could have won and one that we should have been looking to win.
Unfortunately, we had an off day. The fact that some people are able to be rational and philosophical about it doesn?t mean that they are happy that we lost the game. It just means that they can see past one defeat (3 in 24 games for gods sake!) and be a little realistic.
Hibbert has played a part in some of best results and performances recently as has Leon Osman, but because the team lost today, those two should be hung, drawn and quartered?
God give me strength!
Osman is very much average a late-game substitute at best, but on some rare days he is decent.
Hibbert I think just had a bad day. His crossing and movement forward has been getting noticeably better and he’s still solid as a rock at the back.
You can understand why, particularly in the context of Moyes?s conservatism. Hibbert, on his day, is one of the best defensive full backs in the Premier League ? Moyes tolerates his frustrating weakness going forward for his defensive attributes.
Osman is a workhorse. He tracks back and badgers people and can, on his day, be valuable going forward, either with important goals or link-up play. Unfortunately, there has been precious little of that this season and he has become a passenger from an attacking sense. His touch has deserted him and he?s too slow in making up his mind what to do with the ball when he has it.
I think Gosling has been due a start in place of Osman for a while now and, as already stated above, he did more in 20-odd minutes than Osman has done in the last 300 minutes. He brings the kind of youthful precociousness that Vaughan brings up front and I?m pretty sure that with Castillo and Neville in the same line-up, Moyes could be a bit less cautious when it comes to Osman versus Gosling.
Having said all that... while Hibbert and Osman may have contributed to the reasons why we didn?t score at one end [Let?s face it, they rarely do contribute to goals], they are not the direct reasons why we conceded at the other. Both goals came from gaping holes in the back as City counter-attacked. For the second, Hibbert was stranded up field.
But our right side is a problem. Whereas our left flank buzzes with creativity and skill and invention, our right side can be depressingly flat and open to exploitation by the opposition. I still don’t think Gosling is the answer though, and I’m more likely to get a game than Shandy. It’s a tricky one for Moyes, for sure, but Osman hasn’t ’arf stunk the place out at times this year. Not quite enough to make me daydream about Simon Davies, but still pretty bad.
You need patience my friend. We are STILL in a transitional period and not the finished article. In time the pair will have to improve or be replaced. Right now they have played their part in an excellent season and deserve more praise than criticism.
They have earned the reward of a chance to prove their worth even if they are tired!
We lost, so what, it doesn?t make our season.
Jagielka?s injury is my only concern!
Jacobsen was injured again ? Hibbo came in and he didn?t disappoint, he had 3-4 decent crosses and 3-4 bad ones just what you expect from him.
Osman was anonymous and jaded and should have been rested, however Yobo made a crucial mistake for their first goal and the central defenders were caught out of position for the second so I cant see how Osman and Hibbert cost us the game. Saha was pretty ineffective as was Fellaini and Osman in the first half
The response the players showed with 2-0 and a man down was marvellous and there are a lot of positives to be taken, its no coincidence that GP was rocking towards the end of the game, the spirit and the application were top notch ? pity that we left it so late and lost though.
The Jags injury is the main concern from today ? we couldn?t get 4-th we will overtake Vila for fifth but we will miss Jagielka big time, Yobo is very good defender ? fast, pacey athlete with good reading of the game but he is too prone to lapses of concentration and mistakes in crucial games and in the final Chelsea will punish every mistake we make in defence.
Although he looked like improving since his return, Hibbert infuriates me more than any. His asset is a strong tackle.... but in terms of positioning, distribution and anticipation he?s a very weak link in an otherwise gelled back line and today was god awful (at least before the web-link died).
At least Jacobsen has shown some promise moving forward and deserves a crack ahead of Hibbert before he decides to pack his bags this summer... don?t think he was available today because of a knock though.
As much as we all want to see our academy and local lads do well, and appreciate the effort they put in, Everton will not move forward while rewarding poor performance with a place in the team. We?re not exactly spoiled for choices in RB but there are some hungry lads on the bench who?d love Ossie?s cup final place... there?s little to loose in the league run in.
Here?s to good news on Jagielka. COYB
Having said that, one of the most consistent complaints on these threads has been against Osman. Whether you think he is terrible always or merely knackered, he really should be dropped at least for the next couple of games. It is a squad game and we have a ready made replacement in Gosling. He should have started at least today and that is the manager?s fault.
I?m not saying that Moyes is a bad manager but he still does these bloody annoying things that confuse and piss me off.
Fingers crossed on Jags. I simply cannot believe our luck. Now injuries put at peril the defensive rock of our team. I am completely gutted and don?t know what to say. Please show me another team that has suffered such misfortune. We need to excavate the Goodison turf, because we surely play on top of a Gypsy burial ground.
As for Hibbert and Osman, the Right Mid position must be addressed this summer. Also, I don?t see Jacobsen in training, but he certainly offers more going forward from the right full-back position, with Neville being able to easily slot back to cover when things go awry. Whatever Hibbert offers in defence, he brings nothing when probing forward. Maybe Coleman will pan out.
As many others have noted, the right side needs some serious revamping. Sparky had us totally sussed, and that is embarrassing in itself. Moyes cannot allow loyalty to blind himself to the very obvious deficiencies of our team.
Now onto the Jagielka watch.
Nobody can convince me that Hibbert is Everton material. You could argue that Osman does have the odd good game. Might well be that there will be replacements for them both come summer
Arsenal, United and Chelsea don?t carry passengers; even Liverpool. Right through their team, they have strength in depth. So, we need to consider a strategy of strengthening in the right places if we want progress. Harry Rednapp has managed to do this at Spurs and I for one would like us to copy.
It?s not a case of sitting on our laurels ? we need to sign a right-sided attacking midfielder; personally I?d like to see a player in the Arshavin mold ? fat chance of that though, we just don?t have that type of cash.
This is the killer every time ? we all know the type of player we need but, unless a significant amount of money is made available to Moyes, not only will we not make progress ? we have a good chance of going back to the way we were two seasons ago? we need to look at stuff laterally.
We are doing better than I thought possible this season but I always think how much better it would've or could've been without Leon wasting his shirt every week.
Let's say Osman was put up for sale ? who do you think would buy him?My guess he would head down a division to a Championship top 10 side. In that case, he is not good enough for us.
Jacobsen for Hibbo, maybe not; one of the kids for Osman, yep it?s probably time!
Gosling? Too young, maybe next season Moyes will play him more. I?m guessing that Moyes does recognize Osman?s limitations and tried to sign a right winger on loan (was it Obinna?) in the summer but the deal fell through, that?s why Osman continues to play.
I disagree that Hibbert is poor. He is a good defender and is part of a back four that has been regularly solid over the seasons. How many right-backs would you rate above Hibbert? Bosingwa? Glenn Johnson? Sagna? Good... now how much do you think Hibbert cost compared to them?
Money-for-value-wise, Hibbert has been very good. Has he lost us a lot of games? Maybe if you could list out some of his ?contributions to defeats? to convince us...
And Tony, I think you?re understating the value of giving 100%. Would you rather have a Robinho-version of Hibbert i.e. not turning up for 50% of the matches despite being world-class, or having a bad day for say 2-3 matches per season, but being part of a solid back four that has kept us joint-sixth in the goals-against column, which is a fair reflection of our position, no?
I really struggle to understand why others attempt to defend him. He?s selected to play out wide and totally abandons his position, leaving the full-back position totally exposed. He?s been doing this for weeks and yet there are some who will actually come on and claim he?s had a good game. I won?t resort to calling people idiots, which sadly seems to be their only line of defence; however, I do sometimes wonder if they are living in some kind of parallel universe.
Although he has been poor for a long time, Osman is being singled out for what was generally a poor performance all round today. I thought Yobo was equally as useless. No matter who we play against, he always looks like he will make a mistake at some point.
He has had 7½ years, and he is still doing the same irritating things, like not dropping his little favourites. In my book, that's bad managing.
When Moyes starts to rest valuable players like Cahill or Lescott it requires that the other ?first eleven? players step up to the mark which inevitably exposes them. These two have always been weak, and are increasingly being exposed.
Compare and contrast the right side of our team with the left side ? Baines and Pienaar are both solid defensively as a unit but they are also the source of about 90% of our creativity and chance creation. Hibbert and Osman create err.... Precisely. And it was no accident that most of the threat from Man City came down or from their left-hand side. Other clubs target them I?m absolutely sure.
As for Saha ? I?m not sure his problem is just fitness as his body language is appalling.
I stand by what I said. Moyes ain't a bad manager (hell even SAF gets things wrong and he isn?t shite) and that's why it's the simple things like the Osman question that annoys the hell out of me. He has done a good job given that now we are regular European contenders rather than relegation fodder.
BUT there have been a number of flaws over the years, primarily hoofball, the failure to play Baines down the left (the man has always been quality and I?m damn glad he is showing it) and now Osman and to a lesser extent Hibbert. It shows a conservative streak in him which will I suspect mean he will always be good... but not the best.
Osman has been without doubt shite for a while now and should be replaced, especially as there is a ready made replacement. Hibbert is more of a problem especially as I am given to understand that Jacobsen was injured / unwell today. The only alternative would be to put Pip at RB and bring in Rodwell... but as we all know that was never ever going to happen. And would I have done it? To be honest, probably not.
Both Osman and Hibbert are squad players and make the right side of Everton an attacking non-entity: defensively a bit better but, with Osman constantly going awol, even thats starting to look dodgy. I think Gosling has got a bright future at Everton and will be a future RB/RM (he did play at Plymouth at RB, correct?): I would like to see that all happen now.
Each year we target a weak link and each year we sell them for more than expected. Osman is good enough for the Fulham?s and Sunderland?s. Next season expect him to be an impact sub or one of theirs!
Osman is a professional, English, Evertonian who has a future at our club in some capacity so I would prefer it if we kept him.
Makes me glad to know that we have improved so much that the quality expected throughout the team is now top 6 or sold.
It shows Tony that in these cynical times Moyes is getting it right, and we know how much you admire him!
Enjoy your night.
Did anyone else think that the triple substitution was a bit strange? All our height upfront went when Fellaini and Saha were taken off. With Lescott not playing we had no aerial threat at all. Cahill is a run into space type player not an out and out target man.
I think a result like this was always on the cards after our recent exertions. So now onwards and upwards, just hoping Jags will be ok.
Terrible today for the following reasons -
Osman is simply not a winger. He drifted inside too much and didn?t/couldn?t stay tight on the wing.
Castillo is unable to pick a pass forward. The lad is simply not good enough for this level.
Substitutions. How many times have we torn our hair out over a lack of subs until the 87th minute? I thought ?good on you? for making the changes and it was misfortune that Jags got injured. Don?t expect Moyes to make a treble subsitution anytime soon...
An inability to play the ball well on the ground. We fell into the trap of hoofball in a hurry to grab an equaliser that never came.
That fucking ref. Enough said.
I do think Tony has a point about Osman though. Time to give Gosling a go. He simply can?t be any worse on the right than Osman. He scores goals - simple as. One off the bench against Sunderland, the cup game against the shite and today.
Expect a tough game next week atthe Stadium of Light. They?re fighting for their lives and last season we were far from convincing there.
Get well soon Jags.
Having said I am not a Hibbo/Ossie lover, you can't blame them for today's defeat.
I was there, as I expect you were. The crowd was quiet, most of the team was quiet. There was sod all closing down when not in possession and naff all movement when we had the ball. Don't blame the guy who passed for not finding a blue, blame the others for not giving him any options. Stayed the same until it was too late.
Remember tonking spurs away last season? We played like they did that day but not quite as bad.
Maybe the cause was a mix of fatigue, knowing there is nothing to play for in the Prem, and not wanting to get injured ahead of the cup final... I don't know. Personally I want to win every game. The crowd did nothing to wake up the team today, until it was too late, so we fans are not blameless either.
No convenient scapegoats here.
Paul Hardcastle, you made a fair point but I was responding more to someone who said that the game had ruined their day which I thought was over-dramatic.
With a fully fit squad there is no way Osmen would get in the first team. Gosling would offer so much more for the remainder of the season, he has much more energy and enthusiasm, and I like his positive forward approach always busting a gut to get in the box.
He has a knack of getting in the box at the right time; I can see him getting 10-15 goals a season from midfield in time if played regular, he would definitely contribute much more than Osman that is for sure and he is no were near his prime, unlike Osmen.
Why rest players? We don't play 'til next Sunday for crying out loud! It's not as if Cahill has had a long weary season and as for the three subs leaving us in shit street, sorry Davie, you fucked up big time today IMHO.
As for Hibbert, he has never been up to the job, I am afraid. Definitely not PL class and yet, when fit, he is a certain starter. Between the pair of them, they are holding the side back and as I have said the right flank is virtually non-existent in terms of defence or productivity.
It's time to bed some more youngsters in while we have a chance. I remember how much James Vaughan was messed about the past few seasons. I think Rodwell, Gosling and Vaughany should get ago. I mean, what harm would it do to try Rodwell wide right for half a game or so as he looks very accomplished to me.
Hibbert at least tried to create stuff going forward. But I get the feeling you’re overlooking the worst thing from today which was Our Big Phil’s injury. That’s an 8-month lay-off at best with an ACL injury - and absolutely rotten luck for him. Not to mention ours - we need to water the pitch more as it’s clearly too hard for our players jumping for the balls as they’ breaking their feet or doing their knees in on it.
On my way round to duff him up now.
We all have different opinions, and that's great. My only objection is the insults at people on our own side. If it wasn't for these, I would be a fan of yours. As I've said before, you are a free-thinker who isn't afraid to zig when everyone else is zagging, which is great for us fans as a whole. If only you could always make your points in the right way ? like you just did.....
Sorry again. Frustration.
Coyb
Today there wasnt a result to hide his shortcomings. He is in the team as a creative player so I will ask again ? like i did last week and again after Chelsea ? How many shots, crosses or key passes did he make. The answer to all is none.
A good squad player at best, he must be left out against Sunderland. He wasn't the only reason why we lost today but he is a big reason why we wont get top 4. Osman & Hibbert must be improved on first if we are to challenge for CL position.
I didn?t see today?s game so I?ll fix on your statement to the effect that Osman "has been crap all season. Waste of a blue shirt every game". Since you judge Osman on his performances in one week, I thought it equally ?fair? to judge you on a single statement. Let?s judge you on that statement eh?
Well Tony, it doesn?t take much consideration before concluding that you?re clearly talking nonsense, and so I?m bound to discount everything else you say.
On 5th April the Telegraph (long highly regarded for its sports journalism) printed the headline ...
"Leon Osman inspires Everton to Wigan demolition." The strap line said: "Quicker than David Bentley, more reliable than Aaron Lennon, yet Leon Osman is not even mentioned in dispatches when potential heirs to David Beckham are considered. After he single-handedly orchestrated a ruthless demolition of Wigan, perhaps it is time for Fabio Capello to take note."
Quoting DM it continues...
?Leon was probably the best player on the pitch today, and that?s because he?s had a full two weeks training, ... We were pushing to get him into the England squad but this season the most important thing is for him to train as much as he can. At times he has only been able to do one day?s training a week and he says himself he gets rusty. But he wasn?t rusty today.?
Before going to another source, I?ll conclude with this para from the journo...
"Osman was at the heart of everything. The right-wing berth which Moyes increasingly grants him is, perhaps, not the role he would choose for himself, but he is allowed to roam infield, working cleverly in the tight spaces in which he thrives"
And now to The Independent on 11 April; one article?s strapline runs... "A star from Everton?s academy, Leon Osman has been key in the club?s march towards the FA Cup and Europe."
It continues... "Moyes has been rich in his praise for the way (Osman) has played on almost continuously through niggles and strains in Everton?s desperately depleted squad this season. From October to December, Osman half resembled Ledley King, limiting his training to a single session on the day before a game, just to be fit to play."
Nah, forget all that. Osman IS indeed "crap" and a "waste of the shirt every week".
He wasn?t a waste of the shirt when he scored the only goal that kick-started our march of conquest in the F.A. Cup.
Watch: http://videos.sapo.pt/wWOurfLRK9gWndNZmBRu
Let's hope we get another good game out of Leon next season, eh mate. I mean he does play every game so one decent performance a year isn't too much to ask, is it?
DM has built an amazing team spirit within Everton but the other diehard superior players ? Arteta etc ? will eventually get fed up of having to carry the likes of Osman and Hibbert. The spirit of camaraderie alone won?t see us win silver ? it requires great players in all positions.
A few years ago Barcelona had a problem with a number of players suffering serious (mostly knee as I recall) injuries at the Nou Camp or on their training ground. I believe something was done re the texture / type of grass used and, lo and behold, the injuries stopped.
Now, we don’t know how badly Jags is hurt yet but the circumstances today looked very similar to Arteta and I will not be at all surprised if he’s done his knee ligaments and is out for months.
You might say it’s just incredibly bad luck, but such injuries are very rare and for it to happen twice in a season to the same team is almost unheard of. If you throw in Yak rupturing his achilles on our pitch as well, maybe something is wrong that needs to be rectified...?
The fact is Osman is nowhere near good enough for a team looking to break into the top four. That's his point and in fairness to Tony, he watches Osman in every game where your newspaper sources don?t.
Re the Man City match, the source of all this gnashing of teeth, the main problem was the lack of creativity in central midfield. Well as Neville and Castillo played at Chelsea, they are not going to create chances ? especially when Saha & Osman are firing blanks. I think Saha is a worry ? when is he ever going to achieve full fitness & put together the form of his Fulham & early Man U days?
Just pissed off at our rotten luck with injuries this year. I daresay, after last season, if you’d asked me to name 3 players I really didn’t want us to lose to long-term injuries, I’d have said Yak, Arteta and Jags, and now look what’s happened. Given the tone of some of the comments above, would people be less bothered if Hibbert or Osman had been stretchered off today?
There may only be 4 Prem games left now, but we can ill-afford to be without Lescott, Pienaar, Cahill, Howard and Baines on 30 May. Wrap all 5 in cotton wool I say!
Methinks you do us a disservice. Our motivation was not to prove Tony Marsh wrong ? far from it, I generally agree with him on Osman; Hibbert... not so much.
As we stated elsewhere, his post was withheld primarily because of the timing and it’s central theme which was Osman and Hibbert must not play. No matter how convinced Tony was of that, it was simply the wrong post to make 3 days before such a massive game ? one which most Evertonians knew for certain those two players would indeed be playing the full game. We did it in a (perhaps mistaken) effort to help preserve some semblance of unity of purpose amongst Evertonians ahead of such a massive challenge.
Tony had stuck his neck out on the expectation that Hibbert and Osman would have been roasted down our right side had Rooney and Ronaldo played. You only have to look at what happened inside Old Trafford this evening to know that his fear was 100% correct.
Saha, as useless as he was on Sunday... FFS, Moyes, give Vaughan a shot, he at least looks arsed...
And Yobo with his usual 50p head and trying to cover in corners leaving the middle wide open for the unmarked Stephen Ireland who must have thought he had developed the power of invisibility today as no fucker in blue went anywhere near him until Cahill came on.
Shite match, twat of a referee who had no intention of listening to his linesman, we deserved a point but little more. Osman is either right in it or so anonymous as to be useless; had to feel sorry for Pienaar who ran his arse off but if/when he finally looks up and there?s no one to pass to, what more can he do?
Fellaini should have stayed on too as he was causing their defence all kinds of problems yet when he came off we still got high balls punted straight at the Harlem Globe Trotter Man Shitty defence, and I?m furious that Given didnt get a straight red for the elbow to Gosling?s throat but to say it was only him that should have seen red for Shitty would be an understatement.
We must spend on the right side in the summer. We need a right back similar to liegton baines and a right winger with pace and good delievery.
You have to think though, they have played 3 games in 6 days. They're bound to be knackered. That showed today. Hopefully they will be refreshed for Sunday and they bounce back with 3 points.
The thing is that if you spout enough negative shite, then eventually you’ll get something right. Law of averages and all that.
So the last 20 matches, where we lost once, with Hibbert and Osman playing how many together? That was luck. You’re right tho, they been found out. Took 20 matches, but finally they’ve shown their true colours.
(By the way, I think Hibbert and Ossie need to be squad players if we want to break the top 4, but TM’s constant fucking whingeing despite the facts speaking against him gets on my tits).
Moyes messed up with his substitutions as well, should have brough on Cahill and Vaughan and waited a while for before bringing on the third ? always a risk of making 3 subs that early that you could end up playing the game out with 10. It was a frustrating afternoon and now made worse with the news Jagielka is out for the season ? great! It just gets better and better!!
And those dirty antics from Robinho and Elano topped it off with Wiley giving every bleeding decision there way!!!
While the rest of us lament a poor result and the disaster of losing our best player for our biggest game in 14 years (not to mention the remaining league games), you are totally focused on your pet hate.
Today showed us how quickly things can all turn sour. Losing Jags is a massive dent to our hopes of winning the cup, and I’ll tell you one thing, picking ourselves up from this setback won’t be helped with recriminations and vitriol. Hopefully Moyes will react to the performance today and make changes. He’ll have to keep the moral up as I’m sure the team will be gutted for Jags.
Saha for me is just not at the races either. I don’t know whether it’s lack of fitness, confidence or both but he is a passenger.
A day to forget for Everton. Pick ourselves up and go again.
COYB!!
"Oh Sorry, Chris, my mistake. Osman has had a good game this season as you rightly point out ? the Wigan game. That makes a grand total of 2 good games in 18 months. .... Let?s hope we get another good game out of Leon next season, eh mate. I mean he does play every game so one decent performance a year isn?t too much to ask, is it?"
Well, to argue further with you, and point-up the crassness of your assertion he has now had 2 good games in 18 months... Try going to the football pages of a broadsheet?s website and type his name into their search panel. This is a selection of what comes up for THIS SEASON for Osman, the comments covering a number of games:
"Leon Osman strike shows Everton?s class gap" 4 January
"Leon Osman rescues point for Everton" 21 September
"Leon Osman injury adds to Everton?s problems
... has been in ... excellent... form... Osman has flourished..." December
"Leon Osman keeps Everton in hunt for fourth" April
"Osman sends Everton on their way" 11 August
I?m sure I could find more but somehow I think you?d only ignore them...
And just to add my tuppence worth to the point of Tony?s article, Hibbo does, and generally does very well, what he is primarily paid to do ? defend down the right. Robhino was in a class above everyone else in that area today ? Ronaldo included. My view has always been that Leon is too small to be included in a side together with Pineaar (and certainly too small if Arteta is also there), and yes he was ineffective today.
Well until we're taken over by a billionnaire, I'd just like to point out they're our right side who cost us nothing and was up against their £32million player...
But besides that, a lot of people on here are being very very hypocrytical, you complain Osman gives the ball away too easy and call for him to be replaced by Gosling, who does exactley the same thing, running into players, McFadden-esque style.
Yes, he's still young, but if your going to complain about Osman giving the ball away, why do you want him replaced by someone who does the exact same thing when he plays? Just because he scored vs Liverpool doesn't automatically make him an amazing player... (He may grow into a good one however...)
Osman gives the ball away a lot because he looks to play it on the ground; when we have no movement, people coming to give him an outlet, isn't the whole team to blame? So why not hurl abuse at them too?
Also, Ossie is a very skillfull player, why do you think as soon as he gets the ball he has 2/3 players immediately hounding him? He is lightweight at times and that's his main problem, I think we do need a better midfielder, and he will probably take Ossie's place in the first team, but he is the best we've got for now, and he definitely doesn't warrant the abuse he gets.
As for Hibbert, no he isn't the best right back in the world, he's a good defender and again he's pretty much our only option, so for him to give 100% every game even though he gets a lot of stick, I'm glad he still puts in 100% and tries his best. Again if we got a better player in im sure hed be out, but we have to make do with what weve got.
And lastly, this is a team game, Ossie and Hibbert have been a part of that team most of the year, and few would argue that this is turning out to be a very good year, surely they must be doing something right. They give what they've got, it might not be world class, but they do their jobs and get on with it.
Why hurl abuse to them for the sake of it? Nothing will happen in the short term, unless you want untested/unproved Jacobsen to start in one of the biggest games we've had in a long time. Moyes sees him every day in training, and I trust his judgement, not yours.
a) Yakubu suffered his injury at White Hart Lane.
b) Arteta suffered his injury at St James’ Park.
c) Jagielka suffered his injury at Goodison.
So, 1 in 3. Engage your brains, chaps.
Given that all 4 of these players plus Castillo started against Man City, it is little wonder that we lost at home today.
The news on Jags is both sickening for the player and his supporters. I wish him well in a speedy recovery, but for a club to suffer 3/4 injuries of the same nature in the same season, begs the question ? is it down to pure bad luck?
Or even A N Other times two...
Castillo and Neville. This is just back to the future, read Carsley and Neville, both doing the same job, get the ball give a simple pass, BUT WHO TO??.... well there?s Pienaar and... er... Pienaar.
Anybody? ANYBODY? willing to put their hand up and say Osman and Hibbert had good games?
And the point isn?t that everyone else had poor game as well so they are excused under the bad day at the office rule and that, on that form with the sun on his back, Robino will see off better than Hibbo.
Too many times, Osman put in awful crosses and balls, not just missing by feet and inches for the perfect ball, but by 10 or 15 yds and Hibbo wasn?t much better. Again to go on about Baines and Pienaar, they at least try to vary it and play it in to feet for the one two on the floor, why play to people's strengths? Richards, Dunne, Kompany... must have thought it was their birthday.
The one, the only, plan A, work it to Hibbo wide and cross..
He, Osman, seemed better after a two-week lay off, albeit versus a piss-poor Wigan and he has been playing, so we are told, with a strain of some sort that restricts his training.
Give him 4 weeks off and give Dan the man a go. As someone else said God Help us if Tim gets crocked.
Speak as you find, as is said... well I also found Hibbo and Osman less than fit for the purpose ? and Saha for that matter.
Tony Hibbert is shite. He is the worst player I think I've seen wear the Royal Blue jersey. I?m 24 so you can imagine some of the shite I have seen over the years. But from the Nyarko?s to the Danny Williamsons, I really think this lad takes the biscuit. Maybe it?s because he?s playing in a better team than I've seen and sticks out a little more... or that on the left we have, in my opinion, the best fullback in the league currently in Baines ? but that still won't change my opinion. Now to justify it, I?m going to explain his all-round game and I really am interested to hear the replies.
His crossing is shite. I mean, as a Sunday League player who plays right back, not even I make that many bad crosses. It's not like they're easily headed away the way a looping cross can be ? they're always either completely over-hit or just pea roll along the floor for the first man to clear with ease.
To justify this point, do you EVER feel confident of a good cross when he?s about to? And the 1 or 2 times in his carrier when he has done it, I bet ? like me ? you?re like ?fucking hell? in shock. How can that be for a Premier League footballer when one of his main priorities is to cross??!
Secondly, his forward movement is just appalling. He never looks to get in behind the other team, just stands static, jogs forward every now and again, and just returns the ball were ever it came from or inside. Look at the way Baines charges forward ? there?s no flair or skill involved in it, it?s just his determination to get in behind. Hibbert never does this and it?s frustrating.
Now we all agree, his passing is piss-poor so no need to go on about that. On to his defending. Now this has become the most annoying aspect of this argument in my opinion. Tony Hibbert is fucking shit defensively. The argument ?he?s a solid player? or ?he never gets beaten? ? do these people actually watch the games I watch? What Hibbert likes to do is stand about 3 yards off whoever is attacking him. Now by doing this he is never going to get beat because the attacking player doesn?t need to beat him ? he just moves the ball a yard to the side and whips it in.
Seriously, next time he plays, note that if you don?t believe me. He doesn?t even dictate to the player were he?s showing them (ie inside or outside etc) but lets them dictate to him while he just stays his 3 yards off. Just look at the joy other teams have on the right hand side and how many goals come from it.
There was an incident in the 1st half where I think Robinho played a 1-2 and all Hibbert had to do is track his man as someone was going to Robinho (it was what led to Howard saving the Robinho shot). Nothing more, just track a man. He still managed to fuck that up. He?s also shit in the air to; in fact, I honestly don?t think he has a good side to his game at all.
I think one of the reasons I feel this was is because, when I first saw him coming through, I really liked him and saw potential but he hasn?t developed ? he?s gone horribly backwards in fact. Now I know our defense has a good record but that is because we had Jags, Lescott, Baines and Howard ? all exceptional in my eyes. Not because we had Hibbert there.
What summed him up was that instance when the ball was fed out to him in the 1st half and it rolled under his foot. And if anyone believes he?s a good player, that?s your opinion. But you are kidding yourself. This isn?t a reaction to our performance today, I just saw today as the last straw.
On an end note, all the best to Jags ? gutted for you mate. It's typical we now have our best striker, our best midfielder and our best defender on long term injuries isn?t it? That?s like United having Rooney, Ronaldo and Rio out, just to put it in context. Just hope that the lay-off doesn?t carry on massively into next season ? you will be missed.
Your a fucken broken record lad, it's the end of April and it's the first time you?ve seen both of these guys in a side thats actually been beaten, does that not tell you something?
You were claiming the Mancs played their reserve team last week, but what a team Everton are ? some of the best teams in Europe can't beat us, even though we are missing our best players and according to you we keep playing them with 9 men.
These two may not be top notch, but they are a fucken sight better than you claim they are, they?ve done a tremendous job for this club and when they are eventually replaced we?ll all owe them a debt of gratitude.
Ossie was awful too and has been for a while. The sooner the transfer window opens the better! We need competition! If Arteta and Yak we?re both fit, Osman would be dropped.
I know I have slagged them both off but in the main, I have to say, for most of the season I have been spot on. They are not consistent enough though!
As far as Osman is concerned I would agree that he gives the ball away. However, to do that you actually have to be in there to win or lose the ball. He is a committed player who never hides and is one of the few players who can still make a killer pass that we have left in the side who is fit. A contributor has quoted all manner of newspaper articles, from journos with no axe to grind, who consistently support the view that Osman?s overall contribution is significant and warrants his inclusion in the side. You can?t ignore this just because it doesn?t suit your argument; especially when it is pointed out to you.
I also think some are getting a bit ahead of themselves by criticising individuals in this way. I am still amazed that a team that was still in transition this season, had such an awful start and then had key players injured for extended periods of the season will finish sixth and play in the FA Cup Final. The point is, we continue to be greater than the sum of all our parts (as all great teams should) and both Osman, Hibbert and others are all playing their part although none is by any means perfect.
Gosling has to start for Osman, what else can the kid do? Anyone heard how well McFadden is doing at Brum?? There were those slating anyone who had a go at him on here, and he isn?t setting fire to the Championship. McFadden was better than Ossie!
Saha is a sub at best. Cannot afford to start with him. Either play the 4-6-0 or start with Vaughan upfront. If Jo (still not convinced) or the Yak were playing yesterday, we?d have got our necks infront before they scored.
Without Jags, things look scarey. Two wins in the remaining four games should secure 6th (but I badly want 5th), then let's hope Chelski lose a few bods in their Champions League endeavours, or at least make the final and are hung over come 30 May. COYB!
Everything has been pretty much said, but here goes again.
First of all, you are largely picking a fight with people who agree with you. No one in this site that I am aware of thinks that Osman and Hibbert are our best players. They have their points - Hibbert’s man-to-man defending (usually), and Osman’s passing interplay with Arteta especially - but, WE ALL AGREE they are not Premiership worldbeaters.
We perhaps disagree with you (but then this is perhaps where your emotions get the better of you and you go a bit mental) that Osman and Hibbert are excellent squad players. They are.
Of course also Tony, in your fantasy world of the Mersey Millionaires you don’t manage to exist very close to reality. WE DON’T HAVE ENOUGH MONEY TO HAVE A SQUAD FULL OF ARTETAS!! So, if you get your way and Osman and Hibbert were sold to Plymouth or someone (actually they would certainly be snapped up by bottom half Prem clubs) - who would you have in the squad to replace them? Okay, you could play Jacobsen and Gosling in the first team. But who would be their squad back-ups with them gone? Do you think they would be better than Hibbert and Osman?
Finally, for the Fantasy Football Rmantic purists on this site who would like us to play like West Brom - one of the big reasons Moyes plays Osman is that he is an excellent defensively covering midfielder. In the Moyes style (I know you hate it Tony and would rather we were West Brom, even if we were relegated) all midfielders must put in a strong defensive shift. Leon always does. One of the reasons for sure that VdM never gets a game is because he would not do this.
Osman and Hibbert are true professionals, always put in a full shift, fit very well into the Moyes style, have excellent games every now and then, and at the minimum are fantastic squad players given what we can afford (and we can ill afford to lose them). You are not even close Tony to understanding what is going on here, and are just like a prophet of gloom wailing in your own desert.
He is too small and shite most of the time but he has good patches. But this ain't good enough for Premier League. All the fans who think Osman should play every week mustn't want us to improve becuase he is not consistent enough, therefore not good enough.
I totally agree that the two boys aren?t going to get us in the top four but I don?t see a lot of other options. (Before you ?give Shandy Andy a go? boys start, the answer is No!) At the start of the season, after only bringing in Fellaini and a few loan signings in the summer, if you were to say to me, we will lose our best player and play maker and our biggest goal threat (feed the Yak) and still get into Europe and be in the FA Cup Final I would've pissed my pants. My point being Football is a team game and the team (with Hibbo and Ossie in it) have done us proud.
Let's hope the Board can find Davey some funds in the summer so we can strengthen and push for the Champions League.
We are not bottom half any more, therefore they need replacing. I don't like getting on any player?s case, but these two are in the prime of their career and don't match the standard of the rest of the squad.
I would hope ? and expect ? that our right hand side will be Moyes?s main priority in the next transfer window, and also ? I fear ? Hiddink?s main target in the Cup Final.
Both are very limited and I agree that both have struggled over the last 3 matches... but neither cost us a penny and neither would be on mega wages. If we can afford to replace them I’m sure we will but I’d hope they’ll still be in the squad as both can offer something when required.
Hibbert is solid. Nothing more, but he doesn’t let you down provided you don’t expect miracles from him. He’s shut down some of the best wingers in the league this season.
Osman is a ball player. Weak, yes. Slow, yes. But when Everton were unable to keep possession over the last few years he was invariably the one who took some responsibility for getting hold of the thing. A right midfielder he is not, every defender knows what he will do (come back or inside) and his lack of pace means he can’t buy space when defenders know exactly where he’s going.
When he plays wide right, he constantly tucks in & abandons his position, which makes it harder for Hibbert ? as when he recieves the ball he?s invariably got no-one ahead of him on the right hand side and he?s forced to hump it forward.
Osman?s been off form for weeks and is due a spell on the sidelines ? I?m not sure what game Moyes was watching yesterday when he chose to leave him on ? he had a total mare.
As for Tony the Shoe ? Baines's magnificent recent form is exposing Tony?s weaknesses more & more ? everything we do that?s creative comes down the left flank with Peanut & Baines linking brilliantly.
Moyes needs to bring in a top quality right back and a right winger this summer ? a fact I?m sure he?s already aware of.
With regards to Tony Hibbert, I think we have looked a more balanced outfit in the side when he has been playing. When Arteta was fit and we actually had a midfielder willing ask and receive the ball, I thought our dear old right-back was a million times better. Instead of endless hoofs down the line he actually had an option and used it well.
Hibbs and Ozzie are clearly positionally aware, hardworking and tend to make the right decisions in a team game. Gosling is not ready to start on the right and, from what I have seen this season, he tends to give the ball away in the wrong areas. The boy has great potential, but as yet it remains that and I don?t think we can trust him for 90 minutes.
They are clearly way more than Championship players ? I understand their limitations and they aren?t "top 4" players, but I would take them over and above the right side of all the teams below us. Whilst I understand Mr March?s frustrations, and share them to an extent, I wish he would stop the endless hyperbole. There is room for a discussion here and by no means does he not have a point, but the way the argument is presented is verging on the offensive; only serving to undermine the argument.
As for potentially getting roasted by Rooney and Ronaldo; they are two of the world?s best players (and, yes, my keyboard did get stuck in my throat typing that) and I think many players in world football have had that dubious pleasure. I think it would cost a hell of a lot of money to find players to do that...
Perhaps, now that other areas in the side are covered, our right-side does become a priority. Let?s face it with Obinna, Moyes did attempt to bring in some one down that side.
Still, I applaud Leon and Tony in their constant commitment to Everton ? whilst they will never be world-beaters, they are two good Premier League players who would give anything for the club I love and they are never a waste of a blue shirt.
(Apologies for the rather confused post, which rates and slates the pair, but I?m genuinely not as against them as some seem to be but I?m aware of their limitations ? although I remain unconvinced that many other teams offer anything better).
Good First XI Starters (my order of strength): Arteta, Jagielka, Lescott, Cahill, Baines, Howard, Yakubu, Pienaar, Fellaini, Neville
Good Squad Players (my order again): Yobo, Vaughan, Hibbert, Osman, Rodwell, Gosling, Anichebe
No problem if they go (weakest first): VdM, Saha, Jacobsen, Jo
What this shows is what we all know. We have a pretty good first XI if (if!!) everyone was fit. But even then we lack a class right back and right mid. Yes indeed, Hibbert and Osman (relatively) are our weakest link. We actually don’t need Tony to tell us this, we all know it. So I am sure does Moyes (why do you think we play so much of our football down the left?).
This also shows that our squad is nowhere near big enough. To assume that Osman and Hibbert should go you have to assume that Moyes is going to be able to go out and buy around half a dozen better players better than them this summer. Which means you are either not paying attention to the situation at our football club or enjoy indulging yourself in pleasant fantasies.
My response to Tony, however, is simple. You seem to have got what you wanted. For the last couple of years now I?ve been reading your posts (not quite true actually as I?ve pretty much given up doing that) but the ?headline? you?ve given yourself pretty much sums up your attitude. You always seem to be waiting for someone at Everton to fail.
It comes across that when Everton do well, you?re frustrated because you?re not able to moan about your favourite hobby horses, Kenwright, Moyes (unbelievably), Osman and Hibbert. Finally this week you get what you want, Osman and Hibbert have poor games and we lose (in a game that was actually pretty irrelevant, although I know it doesn?t feel like that when you?ve paid your money and gone the match).
Well here?s my defence, the two lads have given their all this season (don?t stop reading!) and in Osman?s case especially this week. Osman has played well last Sunday and on Wednesday, and I was screaming for him to be subbed against Chelsea. He?s knackered, he had nothing left to give, and in starting him again yesterday, I think Moyes has made a mistake (he does do this, and I?ll admit it when it happens). Gosling should have been given the start.
Your assessment that he was crap against Chelsea simply isn?t true, I?ll stop short of giving you a philosophy lecture on objectivity/subjectivity and the notions of truth that come with it, but the simple version is that you (and in this I mean people generally, and particularly you Tony) see things the way you want or expect to see them, and often a combination of both. This means that when Osman does something good, you don?t think much of it, and when he does something bad you take this as absolute proof of your previously held belief.
Osman is a decent player, I agree that he is limited, and his being lightweight makes him frustrating, but in a hopefully expanded squad next season, I would see him as a good cover player or impact sub. Hibbert I have long believed is not really good enough to play for Everton, but you have to fair and accept that he has done well this season.
We?re the sixth best team in England, and that puts us up there as one of the best in the world, and he?s played his part in that. You?re not really qualified to come on and slag him off after his bad game when you haven?t come on and praised him after the ten or so decent shifts he?s put in recently. As I say, it smacks of you waiting for him to fail so that you can put the boot in.
So there it is, hopefully nothing that can be taken as personal abuse, apart from the observation that you have a very negative outlook, and are willing to overlook positive contributions from these two players in order to focus on the negative.
Most people when they see an Everton shirt on a guy (especially one who?s come through our own youth system and therefore understands the club in a way a ?better? mercenary never will) are willing to do the opposite, and look for the positive.
This is especially important for football fans because it can even be self-causing, if you tell an average player he?s crap for long enough he starts to believe it and becomes crap, if you tell him he?s good and he starts to believe it he performs well. This simple fact, well understood by the majority of fans, seems to have passed you by.
This is why people slag you off so much (that and the fact that you slag some of them off) because the thought that Everton players are playing without the support of Everton supporters really winds some of us up.
This is a more important point than the one that I actually agree with you on, that neither Osman nor Hibbert should be in our first choice line-up, that?s not really the issue given what?s happened this season.
PS: Bad luck Phil, I hope the players see this as an extra incentive for the Cup Final, if they needed one.
This should not surprise you if you read my response to your previous post but I agree that Hibbert & Osman were crap. But they were not the only ones. As stated in my response to your last posting I don?t think that they are slackers, it?s just that Everton has outgrown them.
Yesterday was bloody awful and most of the team were crap.
I would not have played Osman yesterday but see no viable alternative to Hibbert at the moment as I rate Jacobson even less. Until we have alternatives they will continue to play as probably the best option we have until we buy some alternatives ? who would you buy if you were the manager?
Although I am agreeing with you I don?t think you should be celebrating being correct when our team are suffering as it is as though you think more of yourself being right than the team being victorious.
I love this team second only to our 85 Gods. Even though they lost a (is that 3 in 30?) game I still love them. These two players are vital parts of this team. Your efforts and undoubted talents are appreciate here lads.
Ossie: I saw that turn inside three at Chelsea and inch perfect pass to put Jacobson away leading up to Pienaar?s late shot. I saw that back-heel flick to tee up Cahill too.
Hibbert: you've been outstanding at the back all season. I know you won?t let anyone down at Wembley when you help us win the cup. Don?t expect any credit from any of these whoppers though.
PHIL JAGIELKA: No, not because he converted the decisive penalty for Everton in their FA Cup semi-final victory over United on Sunday but because he has played superbly all season. Everton have had a number of unsung heroes this season ? Tim Howard, Joleon Lescott, Tim Cahill, even the vastly under-rated Leon Osman ? but Jagielka really has been top-class.
But what I find most interesting is the fact that Ossie is singled out for praise. Again.
I think it's safe to say that Ossie has his limitations, as does Hibbert, but the Marshite bashings of these 2 is getting a bit old now.
OK, they wouldn't play for any of the sky-4. They aren't the kind of players that are going to give you that something special to push you into the Champion's League spots. But they've been a massive part of the 'relative success' at Everton over the past 3 years.
We are the best side outside of the Sky-4, only Villa come close, but they haven't been top-6 for the last 3 years on the trot, haven't made a semi-final in the cup for the last 2, let alone a final. Osman and Hibbert have been integral to the level of performance over that period.
So yes, I'd love to see Moyes sign Messi and Sergio Ramos to play down our right, but right now we don't have world class players to take over from these two. We should always want improvement at Everton and we should never expect to be content with anything less than top spot. We can enjoy the small glimpses of relative success that Moyes and his squad have brought us, but we don't have to settle for it.
But expecting improvement and giving important players, whether you think they're up to it or not, a hard time at this point in a season which has seen an unprecedented run of results and our best cup run for 14 years is stupid and counter-productive.
Support whichever XI go out there. Next time Hibbert fluffs a cross, I would suggest that encouragement from the crowd to get it right is far more productive than a barrage of abuse.
Firstly, it is my opinion Tony that you go overboard with this. But also neither are ?Championship players?. The problem for Tony and Leon is that they are mid-level Prem players at best but Everton have gone on to become a Top 6 side with aspirations of challenging the Top 4. Neither Hibbert nor Osman would get into any of the sides in the Top 6 with us.
Now that is where I agree with you, that they aren?t good enough for where we want to go. The problem we have with this is where is the money to replace them? We don?t have it to replace both as starters and indeed nothing we can do now with the transfer window fun.
I will say I hope Moyes spends money in the summer on a quality right sided player in midfield, if it means another season with Hibbert first choice right back due to money, so be it for me.
Both players have a future at Everton, they do give 100% and I respect both hugely. Both have had excellent games in their Everton careers, but I do hope that they become squad rather than first choice. I will say I think Leon has had a poor season by his own standards, and Hibbert, perhaps injury has held him up a bit, though he never been a shining light going forward.
On the day today though, I think Hibbert should be our right back here and now, though I would like to see young Gosling playing the right side in midfield.
So there you go Tony, I agree and disagree, I believe though by constantly bashing these two players, you're standing yourself up a bit. They should be commended for what they do but it should also on the other hand be accepted that these are players with limitations. But those limitations are not that they are Championship players at best, I feel that is an insult to both.
Regarding Hibbo, I think he?s an excellent fullback and any defender is going to struggle a little when one of the most expensive Brazilians ever has a blinder of a game. If we really love EFC with a big final coming up we really all should rally round and try to ignore any negatvie stuff. Well done TW for not posting Mr. Doom & Gloom 'til after the semi.
But I think it?s a bit unfair on Tony Hibbert because, like you said in your earlier article, he doesn?t get the protection he should get from Osman. He also didn?t get the protection he should have got from his manager against Villa because as soon as he got booked against the diving Young he couldn?t put a tackle in and was on a hiding to nothing and should have been replaced straight away.
Talking of the manager, yet again he made an elementary mistake in bringing on 3 subs instead of 2 so early in the second half and when Jags got injured we were down to ten men. This is not hindsight ? it was pointed out by several supporters at the time. And why bring Castillo off when he needs games and wasn?t playing that bad when Osman was clearly a spent force?
EXACTLY!! and thats the whole point, they aren?t even as good as Baines and Pienaar.
For an attacking midfielder Osman rarely strikes the ball cleanly (or hard). Osman does occassionaly have a decent game but it?s far too infrequent. Hibbert?s distribution is terrible. Good tackler but a good fotoballer should be able to pass. However, I can appreciate until we are able to afford to replace them then we have to make do.
If Everton are to progress, these areas would have to be improved.
Tony Hibbert is a good defender who like most players has good days and occasionally bad ones, you only ever mention the bad ones. Ossie has is limitations, but on form has done us proud over the last few years. I would have rested him Saturday as he looked knackered at the end of the Chelsea game and I think playing him was a mistake as he still looked knackered against City. For goodness sake put things in perspective occasionally.
I think both are reasonable squad players but there is no way that they should both be on the pitch at the same time. You look at the way Baines and Peanuts link up on the left and they more often than not look a threat, whereas Ossie and Hibbert offer very little.
From what I?ve seen of Jacobsen I like him, he was suspect defensively against Portsmouth but had a very good game against Chelsea. It could be time to have a look at him and Danny Gosling and see how they work as a partnership. Unfortunately, I just can't see Moyes trying it.
On the left, Baines is excellent going forward but he is not the best defensively, yet the cover he gets from the superbly hardworking Pienaar helps to cover his deficiencies.
With a more combative central midfielder and a right winger replacing Osman,Tony Hibbert wouldn?t have to press so far forward and could concentrate on his defence. I have no defence for Osman and, for the life of me, I can?t see how he?s keeping Gosling out of the team.
I refer of course to the much maligned Tony Hibbert and Leon Osman.
At one time or another, Phil Neville, Screech, Yobo and of course the "terrible two" have been the target for the boo boys... even, last season Jags himself. My point is that everton could not and cannot afford to carry passengers, David Moyes would not allow it. And while Tony Hibbert may have his faults, ie: distribution etc... nobody could doubt his ability to defend...
again with Osman, he can look lightweight and be muscled off the ball, but he has the ability to see a pass and always tries to avoid "hoofball", something for which he gets no credit.
Everton's success is based on teamwork, the sum of all the parts, not on having 11 £30,000,000 players on the pitch, but 11 players with heart and fight who leave everything out on the field. Yes, of course some will shine more than others from game to game but that should not detract from the contribution of the guys who may not be "man of the match" performers. Everybody plays a part... sometimes a small one... I dont see any use or good in directing what can only be seen as HATRED towards our own.
Another vital player bites the dust and we need the fans behind the team more than ever... not just your favourites, but all the team... because ? let's face it ? they all count.
"David Moyes would not allow it" ... Haha LOL ? who are you trying to kid? Moyes is the one who persists with playing HIS favourites! And that’s the problem. Both Hibbert and Osman are very limited players and there is unfortunately plenty of weight behind the case that they are indeed holding us back ? you just have to watch them on the rare occasions when Everton are in possession and attacking down their right side to realise the problems with these two are endemic and are not going to go away any time soon. The number of moves I have counted that end with Osman and a bad ball or poor decision-making are simply beyond number.
"Everybody plays a part"... but the part these two play is simply not good enough. Calling that HATRED because you don’t want to accept it is simply ridiculous. As Tony suggested in his original post, Moyes needs to make some tough decisions if Everton are to end this season with something more than qualification for another debilitating, energy-sapping run in the second-rate European competition.
"I mean, what harm would it do to try Rodwell wide right for half a game or so as he looks very accomplished to me. "?
Is it worth trying to engage in debate about the game of football with someone who understands the game so little?
Osman and Hibbert have been and will continue to be extremely important cogs in the Everton wheel. When we can afford to buy more talent, they will drop down the pecking order. The fact that people on here are talking about Osman’s inability to take people on and whip in crosses again shows a lack of understanding of the various critical elements of the modern game.
But we are used to that I suppose.
It is typically pretty miserable to be an Everton fan, little to cheer about....but hey, even when things are better than they have been for about..erm 14 years (even though, by rights - or money - they really should not be), let’s complain, bitch and moan, and drag everyone into our pit of unhappiness.....
Moyes, you don’t know what you are doing.
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Still gotta take you to task over this line though: "Osman and Hibbert must go and never be played in the same side again." ? No matter how 'right' you believe your assessment of these two to be, that is just a ridiculous statement to make in the circumstances. Moyes both believes in and loves these two: they are going NOWHERE, so try to behave yerself, please, Tony!!!
Now.... open up them floodgates!
[But please, no abuse... under which I now include (a) accussing Evertonians of being closet kopites or anything along those lines; (b) making personal sleights, point-scoring, questioning people's motivations etc (c) advising Evertonians that they should consider supporting a different team; (d) questioning or boasting re one's supposed "knowledge of football"; hopefully you get the picture... please, just discuss the merits or otherwise of the issues raised.
Any comments containing personal abuse will not be edited: they will simply be deleted. YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED!!!]
ps: If you have a problem with what's being discussed here and want to discuss something else, why not click "Have your say" at the top of the page and submit your own mailbag thread.