... And if ya know yer 'istory...

1962-63 Inter-Cities Fairs' Cup
1963-64 European Cup
1964-65 Inter-Cities Fairs' Cup
1965-66 Inter-Cities Fairs' Cup
1966-67 European Cup-Winners' Cup

I'm afraid the great Harry Catterick still edges it...

True, Michael... And they actually won trophies as well: the Championship in 62-63 and the Cup in 66.

What exactly has Moyes won?

My God, Stephen Stuart ? are you daring to question the Moyesiah? I should warn you to be prepared for the name calling cause you see on this website anyone who dares say a bad word about our manager gets called all kind of names under the sun. I have been a victim of this and Tony Marsh is a regular receiver of this. So watch out is all I can say.

Stephen, You have only got 5 more weeks to ask that question...

Stephen and James, I agree 100%. I too yearn for those heady days in the late 90s when we spent this time of the year wondering if Cambridge away would offer an exciting challenge in the coming season. When we saw adept passing and tactical acumen of Scott Gemill and Mark Pembridge teaming up as the driving force in midfield. How we oooed and ahhhed when Unsworth launched another mortar onto the head of Paul Rideout. Oh for another Wimbledon last day escape or Gareth Farrelly and Vialli saving us against Coventry.
THIS QUALIFICATION FOR EUROPE AND TOP 6 MEDIOCRITY MUST END.
Who wants to see Arteta and Felliani team up with Cahill and Pienar in a midfield that doesn?t spend most of it?s time with a stiff neck from watching those long balls go over them. Bring back Walter, bring back Walker and bring back agent Johnson. Moyes out I want Angel and Barlow back in attack. I want Ginola and Gazza, Paul Holmes and Michael Branch. Mike Milligan, Stephen Hughes, Carl Tyler and Mitch Ward were are you when we are crying out for a hero. I for one will not be watching the coming FA cup final out of protest at the managerial ineptitude that has took away our place as THE laughing stock of English football.

But there is hope. We might be able to tempt Mike Ashley to buy the club as it looks like he is trying to get out of Newcastle. We could build our future on the Geordie model and before we know it it?ll be back to the good old days. Or maybe we could tempt Peter Ridsdale...

Ha ha, David Ush. Well played........funny

Dave Ush, spot on mate. There seems to be a contingent on here who think we?re a bunch of idiots for liking our manager and being pleased with the job he?s done. Stephen and James... flippin? ?eck.

Dave Ush, totally agree but how dare you leave out Marc Hottiger and Mikel Madar from the list of gods whose underachievements we should worship,

And by the way, Sean, even if we win the FA Cup the likes of Stephen, James and Tony Marsh will still tell us it wasn?t good enough for seven years in charge, Catterick did better, Kendall did better and we?re a bunch of idiots, or maybe not real blues, because we?re happy with the mediocrity of one trophy in that time.

We?ll be told that Everton will never be a great club whilst supporters like us accept this, and we?ll be told that Kenwright is shit, Moyes is shit, Osman and Hibbert are shit... etc. etc. We?ll especially be told how it doesn?t really count, because United fielded a weaker team in the semi, maybe because Chelsea were tired if they play in the Champions League final on the Wednesday before or some other reason they?ll come up with that fits the view they already hold.

Until we win the league with an unbeaten record, someone will be on here moaning about something trying to bring the rest of us down because they can?t bear the idea that not everyone shares their wretched, negative outlook. For people like that, nothing is good enough. If they were Man Utd fans they?d moan everytime they dropped a point or Ronaldo didn?t score.

Mike, well said

Why do the likes of Ush et al always compare the current side and manager to the likes of the Walker and Smith’s sides?? Did we have any managers before that we could compare with??? You might start with Mr Kenrick’s post, and the side referred to in the original post.

Yes things are better than under Smith. Yes Moyes has had more time and more money to spend. Yes we are better off with Europa Cup footie and a final to look forward to rather than a relegation fight. But Moyes is not infallible. Kendall had won 2 league titles, an FA Cup and a European trophy, plus bogged off to Spain all in the same time Moyes has had. Sssshhhhhh. There, I can compare sides too...

Let me set the record straight. My comment 1st off was sarcastic. There are good things about Moyes. He is as good as anyone in the League at motivation. However, I am still not convinced tactically. Maybe if we win the FA Cup then Moyes will open up and become more attack-minded.

I wasn?t blind to our performance at Stamford Bridge the other night which was very good. Equally I wasn?t blind to the fact that we had a dreadful start to this season, conceding goals left, right and centre while playing terrible football. The problem with so many of you is if one of us dares to have a bad word to say about Moyes, Kenwright or your favourite player Osman you all go throwing tantrums like we are bullies.

You are the same people who call Tony Marsh every name under the sun. Downright hypercritical I think. You do not need to shove down my throat that Moyes is better than Smith... but equally, please accept that he is not yet worthy of being called a great manager. Good ? yes. Great ? No. If we win the Fa Cup then I will hold my hand up and admit he fully deserves Manager of the Year. Until then, I will not be blind to his faults.

Knowing your history is a simple matter of education, or good manners if you like.

The Guardian?s stats team tried to answer the question as to whether EFC?s route to Wembley this year was the toughest ever. Using ?history?, they could show that MU, the Arse and the RS had had it harder.

But that meant that only the RS and the Arse had beaten 2 of the Sky4 teams since PL/CL all began in 1992 to lift the cup.

When we make it 3 out of 4 that will be a new era record.

The reason Moyes has fuck all to show for regarding trophies (until May 30th that is) is because the gap between the big fish (Sky 4) and the rest is so much bigger than anytime before. I think that is particularily the case in England compared to other European leagues. Why are 3 English teams in the Champions League Semis and none in the Uefa Cup? Why did the FA Cup Semis consist of ourselves and 3 of the Sky 4? The answer is obvious. Winning a trophy in this country is fucking hard if you are anybody other those select 4.

Moyes has done an amazing job with so little cash at hand. Is he perfect? Certainly not. But even if he were, the likes of Stephen, James and Tony would still find something to complain about.

I am sure it was you Stephen who made some off-colour remarks after we beat the shite and were all celebrating Gosling?s goal. Should we win the Cup on May 30th, can we expect the same kind of attitude from you? I bet my left nut we can.

COYB! Get well Jag!

Haha, let?s just see about that Matthew. I am really sure that if we win the Cup on May 30th there will be people whinging. It might not stop Moyes bashing in the long run but at the time it will sure as hell die down while we are having the time of our lives. If only you lot weren?t so ignorant and would take what we say about Moyes on the chin. He has gone up in my estimation but I am still not overly fond of the bloke. But I hope to god he proves me wrong in 5 weeks time.

See about what James? Us winning the Cup or me losing my left nut? :D

COYB! FTRS!

See about how us lot react.
COYB FTRS

James,
What’s with this ’you lot’ and ’us lot’?

In all seriousness and in answer in part to Joeynkoo I will concede Catterick and Kendall achieved far more and the only way Moyes will deserve to be ranked alongside other Everton legends is to win something. Silverware is needed and until delivered you all have every right to question and probe and prod and pick on the decisions the manager.

Whilst I disagree with much of the Moyes bashing on here, I agree that we should aspire to be the best we can be. I have a grudging respect for James and Tony Marsh as he obviously fully believes 100 %in the club motto ?nsno.?

I respect your right to pick holes because the only way we can reach the top is to aspire to be the best. Sometimes though we need enjoy what we have at the moment.

(Can?t believe I forgot Marc Hottiger and Michael ?the new Cantona? Madar also John ?the new Ryan Giggs? Oster.)

James, your comment timed 20:12:28 is exactly the problem that I am trying to respond to. The ?Moyes Bashers? seem to be of the opinion that the ?Moyes Backers? will not accept any fault with him, think every decision he makes is brilliant, and in general have some kind of stupidity that only you guys are immune to. This simply is not the case. I disagree with many of Moyes?s decisions, would certainly have done lots of things differently had I been in charge, but that doesn?t change the fact that he has done an excellent job at Everton and should be praised for it.

It's also not true that we only compare him to Walter Smith, but the fact of the matter is that that is what Everton were like when Moyes took over. The previous managers were Kendall, Royle and Walker, who could only dream of doing what Moyes has done. From where we were, where we are now is outstanding, every other club in the league has had the same seven years in which to make progress, but we are ahead of all but 4 of them, all 4 of whom started ahead of us.

It is also the case that since the Champions League and the huge gulf in income th,at that tournament has produced, it is much harder to win a trophy. The era in which Howard Kendall took Everton to all those trophies was an era in which Nottingham Forest were twice European champions, and Catterick?s era was one in which we were the equivalent of a Sky 4 club.

We would happily take ?what you say about Moyes on the chin?, if it seemed fair and balanced, but the way it usually comes across, especially from Tony Marsh, is ridiculous. Also, using phrases like ?your favourite player Osman? and accusing ?us? of throwing tantrums is ridiculous. We back Osman up, despite our own reservations, because we don?t like the tone and harshness with which he is criticised, especially as much of it is highly inaccurate (see Tony Marsh?s comments on another thread), and the ?tantrums? if we?re calling them that, are the emotional reactions of Everton supporters defending their club/team/manager.

For those of us who remember the last 20 years, the current Everton team, manager and overall situation is one to savour, enjoy and be thankful for. It's horrrible to have people come on here and try to bring us down, in effect telling us we can?t enjoy it because of this, that and the other that isn?t quite perfect. If fans of other clubs, who would give the aforementioned left nut to be in our position, could see the comments you make, they would be flabbergasted. The question, as always posed and always ignored, is what the hell could we reasonably be expected to do better than we are at the moment?

Reading the above letters, I can?t help but think how we are expecting too much to soon. Let's look outside the club to other so called "big clubs".

Newcastle:- woefully mismanaged for years, a squad that has been assembled from 4 different managers over 12 months, mediocre players on high paying long-term contracts; if they do go down, most of the so-called stars (mercenaries) will bail leaving an empty shell ? next stop Div 2.

Man City:- loads of cash, shit manager, going nowhere.

The rest:- Spurs, West Ham, Wigan, Blackburn etc all lack something which money cannot buy. That is the self-belief and long term goals to build a successful club.

Success at the start of DM?s reign was to stay up. Followed by re-building with youth and younger players, mixed in with experience. Far as I can see he has done that, let us not forget the relegation battles of mid-90s. I would rather have a squeaky bum from a final or the like, than relief that we stayed up, dreading the start of next season like a blind Newcastle fan dreaming of glory, glory is just around the corner.

Let?s just put a couple of points regarding Catterick. He was undoubtedly a great Everton manager, but he took over a good footballing team when Moores sacked Carey. Young, Labone, Vernon, Harris, Collins, Gabriel, Ring, Parker and Temple were all at the club when The Cat arrived. Compare that lot with the team Moyes inherited.

Mike Allison, while I 100% agree that Moyes is better than Walker, it is debatable as to whether he is better than Royle. You see when Royle took over we were bottom of the league and had just stayed up by the skin of our teeth the previous season. He went onto to lift the Cup and in his first full season we finished 6th. He didn?t have huge chunks of money to spend either.

As for Kendall, don?t you ever imply that Moyes is better than our greatest ever manager ? that is downright insulting. Okay, Kendall's 2nd and 3rd reigns weren?t massive successes but here a few things to look at.

Firstly, at the start of his 2nd we were in the relegation zone. And we had dropped off a fair way since he had left in the 1st place. We didn?t have a great load of cash and he had to sell the likes of Beardsley and Keown to get in funds for Dion Fucking Dublin.

Also he at least gave us a few wins over The Shite and our only Old Trafford win since the inception of the Premier League. I believe his premier record at Old Trafford is 50%. Moyes in 7 years is about 2 points I think.

Now onto his 2nd reign. You talk about how Moyes had things hard well have you forgot about what Kendall had to deal with? He had to sell his best assets to be replaced with no-marks from lower divisions. He wasn?t backed financially at all really. He was in a worse position than Moyes has ever been in.

And as for his 1st reign well again he had to make the funds available himself. He swapped a bright spark in McMahon for Steven, signed a Red Shite reserve, a few crocks and few no marks from nowhere and put them into Everton?s greatest ever side. His later reigns he suffered from being a victim of his own expectation and that Everton hadn?t recovered from you know what.

As for Catterick, the era he was in charge of Everton was an era in which the following had their arguably their greatest ever sides: Man United, Liverpool, Tottenham, Leeds, West Ham, Man City. Also a decade in which 8 different teams won the title which although might prove to be more open it also proves how you were up against truly great sides.

Now onto Osman. Let?s see. Well he has scored 2 goals in about 6 months. 1 of which was a tap in and the other against Macclesfield. He continually gets caught in possesion, cannot head, has the first touch of an elephant, very slow, cannot cross, always fades away against the good sides. He is a liabilty and could you iamgine the field day Chelsea with have against him in the final. A big powerful side against this small, incredidlby lightweight player.

Gosling has been slagged off before. Well considering since he made his Everton debut he has scored more goals than Osman in about half as many games as the former and is only 19, I fail to see how you can be so defensive of Osman yet you negative about Gosling.

Finally onto Moyes. I have already listed positive and negative points about him. I did an article several weeks back on Moyes which I thought was quite balanced but for some that simply wasn?t good enough. I had the gaul to actually make a negative remark about him and loads were onto me like a rash. I mean how dare I ever say one negative word about our manager ? the greatest manager we have had in x amount of years, blah blah blah.

To finish off with Kenwright. I am not fond of the bloke. He comes across as a liar and a hypocrite. However, I will give him some credit for keeping stability at this club even if I am not entirely a fan of him or Moyes.

There you go, are you satisfied now?

James,

Thanks for taking the time to respond in such detail. I appreciate much of what you say but don’t see a lot of it as contradicting what I’ve said.

I’m a little worried that you seem to think I’ve said some things that I just haven’t. Obviously, I have no criticism of Kendall in his first spell, but I really remember how depressing it was by his third.

Osman, again, I recognise the limitations of the player, but I just feel the criticism is too harsh, and his positive contributions overlooked or dismissed.

Moyes frustrates me, particularly tactically, and I don’t think blowing the budget on Fellaini was the right move, but I just go by what he’s done. Our team have constantly exceeded my expectations in the last five years under him, and continue to do so.

Finally, I’ve never said anything negative about Gosling (seriously, you can check), this isn’t a Gosling vs Osman debate as far as I’m concerned and I’m happy to see him given a go. I would say, however, that in a few years time, I can easily see Gosling coming in for stick from the same people giving it to Osman now.

Basically, I just wish you enjoyed supporting Everton a bit more, and let us all do the same. I’m sure your proud to be a blue, but reading some of your posts (and I’ll be honest, James, you’re suffering from lining yourself up with the ultra-negative Tony Marsh in this) it just seems like you prefer moaning about stuff to enjoying the good bits.

Mike Allison it’s nice we could clear things up however I shall let you know I do not prefer moaning to enjoying good bits. 1 week ago I was walking 10 feet tall but now I like many Evertonians are despondant about Jags injury. I am in the same vein as Tony Marsh where I wiol be honest and give credit where it is due. If I do not believe credit is due then I will not give someone unwarranted praise. Several fans complained of name calling towards certain players then proceed to do the exact same thing to Tony Marsh. Well sorry but you can’t have it both ways I’m afraid. However on the upside at least we have kind of come to a conclusion.