The Mail Bag
Time to go, Jô?
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Am I alone in thinking that Jô isn't really the type of player we could splash this summers money on?
At Sunderland, in my opinion, he lacked ALL the qualities that a target centre-forward should have. He can't hold the ball up well, he has shown his finishing abilities but yesterday his one shot of note nearly hit the corner flag. He lacks grit, determination, spirit, sometimes skill too.
We'll have the Yak back and hopefully Vaughany can stay injury free coupled with Big Vic etc ? I don't think Jo has a place with us.
Matt Kay, Posted 04/05/2009 at 13:09:10
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Yes, you are alone, certainly in your appraisal of Jo yesterday.
Can?t hold the ball up? What nonsense. He held it up expertly plenty of times. The problem, too often, is that there?s insufficient support due to the way we play. He gets left isolated as he?s a lone striker. This improved a lot 2nd half.
Oh yes, he also made Pienaar?s goal with classy turn & pass. "He has shown his finishing abilities" ? I agree. I thought you were slagging him off.
"yesterday his one shot of note nearly hit the corner flag". Are you really serious? The shot you refer to missed the post by a foot as it came on his left foot. Sure, he might have done better (like score), but man your eyesight (or memory) need attention.
"He lacks grit, determination, spirit, sometimes skill too." ? We are obviously watching different players.
In all seriousness we can?t afford Jo, or more to the point our midfield is in more desperate need of reinforcements than our attack. But he?s a very young quality player who puts in a shift (and did so in Russia), has a lot of skill and is getting use to our team. My only criticism at him directly (rather than how we leave him isolated sometimes) is he?s very left footed.
I like the kid a lot. In fact I?d go so far as to say he & Yakubu would be powerful as a direct result of Jo?s mobility, intelligence & awareness. He suits 4-4-2 way more than he suits 4-5-1.
Can?t hold the ball up? What nonsense. He held it up expertly plenty of times. The problem, too often, is that there?s insufficient support due to the way we play. He gets left isolated as he?s a lone striker. This improved a lot 2nd half.
Oh yes, he also made Pienaar?s goal with classy turn & pass. "He has shown his finishing abilities" ? I agree. I thought you were slagging him off.
"yesterday his one shot of note nearly hit the corner flag". Are you really serious? The shot you refer to missed the post by a foot as it came on his left foot. Sure, he might have done better (like score), but man your eyesight (or memory) need attention.
"He lacks grit, determination, spirit, sometimes skill too." ? We are obviously watching different players.
In all seriousness we can?t afford Jo, or more to the point our midfield is in more desperate need of reinforcements than our attack. But he?s a very young quality player who puts in a shift (and did so in Russia), has a lot of skill and is getting use to our team. My only criticism at him directly (rather than how we leave him isolated sometimes) is he?s very left footed.
I like the kid a lot. In fact I?d go so far as to say he & Yakubu would be powerful as a direct result of Jo?s mobility, intelligence & awareness. He suits 4-4-2 way more than he suits 4-5-1.
He will only get better.
Right now he is not the player to take us forward but he is a clinical goalscorer.
However at (possibly) £12 million there are better options out there and other positions that need attention so if he has to go...
I hope Moyes sells Anichebe and uses some of the money to take him on loan for the season because he has and will continue to do a better job for us... and he?s a converted blue!
Right now he is not the player to take us forward but he is a clinical goalscorer.
However at (possibly) £12 million there are better options out there and other positions that need attention so if he has to go...
I hope Moyes sells Anichebe and uses some of the money to take him on loan for the season because he has and will continue to do a better job for us... and he?s a converted blue!
Indeed Andy Gray who knows a thing or two about centre forward play praised Jo against Sunderland. Whether we?ll sign him or not is anyones guess. I think Moyes may be being a bit coy on this one. If we don?t sign him then he?s been a very astute loan signing and if there?s the chance we do sign him it?s highly unlikely to be for anywhere near what City paid for him.
I think they?ve got other signings in mind and don?t want to keep him but who on earth will give them anywhere near £18m for him? He?s a raw talent, pretty much like Fellaini so if Moyes wants him and we can do a deal i think it would be a highly structure deal, the type that EFC favour!
IMWT as far as summer signings go. He already looks to be adding to the younger base with the likes of Peterlin and possibly this 17-year-old defender from Hamburg. I think a couple of fairly big signings and the return of some of the established players like Yak and Arteta and we?ll be moving forward.
I would love to get him on a season-long loan with an option to buy
He was actually the butt of many a joke at SOL on Sunday, I haven't heard that since Biffa played. >Sometimes I think we forget how old these foreign kids are, yes they get paid the big bucks, but do people really expect them to come to different countries, where half the time they don't even speak the lingo and immediately start firing on all cylinders? Jo?s a different player at home to the lad who plays away, that speaks volumes. Hypothetical anyway ? we don't have the dosh
Jason Broome ? Still having your little digs at Big Vic? It?ll cost about £2 million to get Jo for another season... asked yourself if this: If Vic is as crap as you say he is, why would anyone pay £2-3 million for him? especially when he hasn't even recovered yet.
ps: Jo?s shot did just miss the post, but it almost hit the corner flag too, that's what happens when you shoot from an angle.
Jason Broome ? Still having your little digs at Big Vic? It?ll cost about £2 million to get Jo for another season... asked yourself if this: If Vic is as crap as you say he is, why would anyone pay £2-3 million for him? especially when he hasn't even recovered yet.
ps: Jo?s shot did just miss the post, but it almost hit the corner flag too, that's what happens when you shoot from an angle.
I think Jo adds a completely different dimension when he plays. He always offers himself for the ball, holds it up well and brings other players in to play. The two games he hasn?t played ? City and the Semi Final ? we have been distinctly lacking in the final third. I think we will miss him a huge amount in the cup final.
ps: We can?t afford him which is a real pity.
ps: We can?t afford him which is a real pity.
If Newcastle drop then I?m thinking Moyes could run the rule over Martins and shape him into something decent. He?s always seemed out of place at Newcastle... Now, if only we could get him to hit the target...
No Go Jo, if he can reach the same level as at CSKA then we want him, but if he reaches that level then we can?t afford him. Either way he won't be coming. Kevin Kurani is Moyes's top striker target, along with the young winger we missed out on last season, the one who couldn?t get a permit.
The big point people seem to be missing is we have a number of crocks who are out of contract / end of loan this summer and will leave the squad even smaller than now, so I would be suprised if we didn?t go for cheap promising talent rather than big players who will cost a pretty penny. Look to the play-off losers for who, ie Eagles, Ledley etc etc.
Last word on Jo: decent loan signing.
I wouldn't mind signing him up but not for anywhere near the kind of cash City would want for him! The only reason he?s become any kind of good is because of playing for us!
Jo is decent but ultimately not the player to help us break into the top 4. Given that’s our aim, he’s not good enough.
Is he as good as Torres, Rooney, Van Persie or Drogba? Obviously not.
The challenge is to find someone that is as good as those players (e.g. Yak scored 21 last season so his goalscoring is comparable) so that we CAN break into the top 4.
Jo is good enough to break into the top 8 or top 6 and thus is not what we need
Is he as good as Torres, Rooney, Van Persie or Drogba? Obviously not.
The challenge is to find someone that is as good as those players (e.g. Yak scored 21 last season so his goalscoring is comparable) so that we CAN break into the top 4.
Jo is good enough to break into the top 8 or top 6 and thus is not what we need
One thing though, I really do think Moyes should give more game time to either Saha or Vaughan in the last 3 games because Jo can't play in the Cup Final. And although I know we probably need to be careful with Saha a bit so he doesn't get injured, I think his match fitness could let him down on the big Wembley pitch so we should play him as much as possible ? definitely for more than 10 minutes!
Moyes prefers a 4-5-1 formation, so next season, with the Yak, Vaughan (although he’ll be injured for most of it again), big Vic and Saha on the books I can’t see Moyes prioritising a striker this summer, especially with our right wing desperately needing attention. In addition, if Moyes did want a striker, Owen on a free versus the millions for Jo? I think Moyes would go for the english option personally.
You have to wonder sometimes if you’ve watched the same match.
I was at Sunderland and thought Jo had one of his best games for Everton, certainly his best away showing. He provided us with exactly the sort of pivotal centre-forward play we don’t get with any of our other forwards.
Jo is young and this is his first season in England. Clearly Moyes is better at managing him that Hughes. Jo has his weaknesses, but overall I think it was a good move in January. I doubt we’ll sign him in the summer, the cost will be prohibitive.
I was at Sunderland and thought Jo had one of his best games for Everton, certainly his best away showing. He provided us with exactly the sort of pivotal centre-forward play we don’t get with any of our other forwards.
Jo is young and this is his first season in England. Clearly Moyes is better at managing him that Hughes. Jo has his weaknesses, but overall I think it was a good move in January. I doubt we’ll sign him in the summer, the cost will be prohibitive.
Jo is a very talented player and has done an excellent job at Everton. Sure, he has faults as many strikers do but leading a line on your own for most of the time is extremely difficult but he has done well. Forget how much he cost City. Transfer fees are crazy anyway. I would take him back on loan again but I suspect City will want him back now.
I thought Jo had his best game for the blues at Sunderland and he was still shite. No pace, no confidence, hasn?t got a tackle in him, no strength and amazingly he has now added to his list of inabilities a complete lack of knowledge regarding the offside rule. Get rid as soon as the Fulham game has gone.
If you look at the price he was bought for (£19 million), you would expect City to be looking at recouping a good portion of that; however, having seen him play for us, how much would you pay for him? At this point, I start to struggle to put a price on him, and I?m afraid I would not go much higher than £5 million, therefore, no deal ? I think!
His away form is starting to improve, his performances against Chelsea and Sunderland were miles better than any of his other away games.
It is all irrelevant anyway as Moyes has already said we can?t afford him, he has done well as a loanee but that is all he will ever be for us.
It is all irrelevant anyway as Moyes has already said we can?t afford him, he has done well as a loanee but that is all he will ever be for us.
I like him, and have to disagree about his hold up play... it?s the best bit of his game... even though he lacks basic awareness at times...
It?s just a pity he has a shot like a girl.
It?s just a pity he has a shot like a girl.
Why do people go on about a player's price tag? A person's value is only what someone will pay. Where one might pay £10 mil another could baulk at £1 mil. Players are like chattels in a bazaar, they have no control over prices.
Dick,
Price tags are important because if for example City would sell him to us for £5M, I’d say buy. But if it’s £10M I’d say look elsewhere
Our budget is probably £20M AT BEST. Probably half that. Hence, would you make him the major signing for next season?
Price tags are important because if for example City would sell him to us for £5M, I’d say buy. But if it’s £10M I’d say look elsewhere
Our budget is probably £20M AT BEST. Probably half that. Hence, would you make him the major signing for next season?
There?s no doubt that Moyes would never blow the kitty, or even a big chunk of it on Jo.
But Dick?s quite right with his economic theory ? if City want their millions back for him they are going to have to find someone to pay the bill. They could, of course, demand his return but I suspect that Hughes would see this as embarrassing, needing another manager to show him how to use his own player. Then again, will Hughes still be in charge there?
My guess is that if Moyes wants him then ways and means will be found to keep him, and I think this is what will happen.
But Dick?s quite right with his economic theory ? if City want their millions back for him they are going to have to find someone to pay the bill. They could, of course, demand his return but I suspect that Hughes would see this as embarrassing, needing another manager to show him how to use his own player. Then again, will Hughes still be in charge there?
My guess is that if Moyes wants him then ways and means will be found to keep him, and I think this is what will happen.
Matt, I couldn?t disagree with you more! Jo had a really good game against Sunderland and apart from Baines and Pienaar was our best player by a mile.
I agree that he needs to toughen up but I would love him here next year with a fit Yak.
Compared with our ?Centre Forward? from the previous week, Jo made intelligent runs and provided a great ball for the vital breakthrough.
As for Victor, well... for me, it's time we sold him on and got some cash for him.
I agree that he needs to toughen up but I would love him here next year with a fit Yak.
Compared with our ?Centre Forward? from the previous week, Jo made intelligent runs and provided a great ball for the vital breakthrough.
As for Victor, well... for me, it's time we sold him on and got some cash for him.
The current selection of forwards that Everton have under contract Yakubu, Saha, Anichebe, and Vaughan all have question marks over their availability for next season.
Yakubu : Will he be able to perform after such a serious injury. Also will his historic nomadic tendancies return?
Saha : Not a long term prospect and injury recovery times are only going to increase as he gets older.
Anichebe : Victor did not appear to have progessed as quickly as we had hoped after his glorious form last season, especially in the UEFA Cup. I hope the injury is only a temporary set back.
Vaughan : Can this lad’s body stand up to any more serious damage. The qualities hopefully will outnumber the injuries.
The other options in the Club are untried at the highest level. I would rather DM take a punt on a tried and tested Premiership option, which Jo now is, rather than take a risk on any of the many players the media will try to select for him.
Yakubu : Will he be able to perform after such a serious injury. Also will his historic nomadic tendancies return?
Saha : Not a long term prospect and injury recovery times are only going to increase as he gets older.
Anichebe : Victor did not appear to have progessed as quickly as we had hoped after his glorious form last season, especially in the UEFA Cup. I hope the injury is only a temporary set back.
Vaughan : Can this lad’s body stand up to any more serious damage. The qualities hopefully will outnumber the injuries.
The other options in the Club are untried at the highest level. I would rather DM take a punt on a tried and tested Premiership option, which Jo now is, rather than take a risk on any of the many players the media will try to select for him.
Sounds like most of us like Jo then, but are not prepared to fork out over £10 mill for him... now, what does a good striker cost these days then? I say go for it, he's going to get better. Think you might be sick as a pig (oops! another swine joke !!) if we let him go...!!
If we can keep this same strikeforce (including Jo) healthy next year, I think we’ll be very strong in that area. We are slowly getting the strength in depth that we need.
Jo is a top striker and we will be lucky to have him at this club next season. £9-10 mill a bargain, simple as...
I think everyone?s pretty spot on here... he is good, I like him. People say he has no strength is just plain weird... his hold up play is good against Sunderland. He?s decent in pace, skill... but finishing could improve. He?s definitely our best striker at the moment, as Saha only seems to be an impact player.
But then again, midfield is priority. Right winger is a first. Holding midfielder second. Striker third. I do have a feeling Kurnayi might go... he?d suit the lone striker role just fine.
Jo gives us another attacking dimension, for my money I’d have Jo in front of Saha, Vaughan and even Yak based on his performances before he picked up his injury.
It’s the guys first season in English footy and he’s chipped in with his fair share.
My main concern is that people keep mentioning Vaughan as a potential future or even current option. Even with our injury concerns James Vaughan is not and will never be good enough to lead the line. He can’t hold the ball up, isn’t too clever in the air and perhaps most worryingly of all doesn’t seem to have a decent shot in his locker. He’s a squad player at best - taking Yak, Jo, Saha and Big Vic into consideration, Vaughany is most definitely bottom of my list. Sorry James.
But hey, prove me wrong son.
Cheers
It’s the guys first season in English footy and he’s chipped in with his fair share.
My main concern is that people keep mentioning Vaughan as a potential future or even current option. Even with our injury concerns James Vaughan is not and will never be good enough to lead the line. He can’t hold the ball up, isn’t too clever in the air and perhaps most worryingly of all doesn’t seem to have a decent shot in his locker. He’s a squad player at best - taking Yak, Jo, Saha and Big Vic into consideration, Vaughany is most definitely bottom of my list. Sorry James.
But hey, prove me wrong son.
Cheers
IMHO, he is quality. His positioning and link up play is excellent - that?s why we created so many chances at Chelsea. Would have been nice if he (or Cahill) finished one off!
Completely different player to the Yak who is more your out-and-out striker & poacher. If we had the money, I?d say definitely buy him. If we only have the money for one big signing then you?d have to say that there are other areas (MF) that are more urgent.
Maybe a more interesting Q might be, if you had the choice of Yak or Jo, who would you go for?
Yak everytime, there’s no comparison. For me the point of having a striker is to score goals and Yak is the first striker since Beardsley to get 20 goals in a season for us and considering he only turned up half fit at the start of last season for us, that’s a hell of an achievement.
People have short memories when they slag Yak off. Jo is completely one footed, he lacks a turn of pace, he can’t head the ball and he is not prolific in front of goal and someone thinks we should pay more than £5 million just because he can hold the ball up every now and then? There’s a lot better talent out there for that price but preferably not another African like Martins as suggested who’ll disappear for all of January.
People have short memories when they slag Yak off. Jo is completely one footed, he lacks a turn of pace, he can’t head the ball and he is not prolific in front of goal and someone thinks we should pay more than £5 million just because he can hold the ball up every now and then? There’s a lot better talent out there for that price but preferably not another African like Martins as suggested who’ll disappear for all of January.
Have to be quick here. Agree with the author and given the choice between Jo and Yakubu, well despite how critical I am of him I would have to say the Yak. He wouldn?t have missed all the oppurtunities Jo had.
However I will say this now ? we will be signing Jo in the summer. City will want to flog him and if they had bid over £100 million for one player do you really believe they would care if they binned someone for a couple of quid. I highly doubt it.
The fact is when Jo does not play we look very poor with Saha starting the 90 mins. We have an FA Cup Final first to win & I feel it is Vaughany who we will need to get match practice, not Saha!
If you look at the stats when Saha starts, he does not score; as a sub for the last 20 mins he has been most effective & gained us many vital points.
I would like Vaughany to be given a good run out in the last three gapbr />As for next season... let's win the FA Cup first!
If you look at the stats when Saha starts, he does not score; as a sub for the last 20 mins he has been most effective & gained us many vital points.
I would like Vaughany to be given a good run out in the last three gapbr />As for next season... let's win the FA Cup first!
We watched a different game Matt. I thought Jo did well on Sunday, his ball to Pienaar for the first goal ? sheer class.
It?s all been said though ? he?s young with obvious potential, he?s here and getting used to our style and will have a pre-season if he stays. I think he can only get better under Moyes BUT then there?s the price.
City are going to spend crazy money in the summer and I don?t think they?ll want him. No-one but no-one is going to give them their £18 million back so it?s just a question of how much they can get and who else wants him. With the kind of figures being touted where City are concerned ie the failed £90 million bid for Kaka and rumoured £150 million for Messi, is a £10 million or so loss on Jo that significant to the Abu Dhabi backers?
Maybe some kind of structured deal starting at £5 million and rising to £8 million or so with appearances etc might be acceptable to all parties. I?d certainly go for it.
It?s all been said though ? he?s young with obvious potential, he?s here and getting used to our style and will have a pre-season if he stays. I think he can only get better under Moyes BUT then there?s the price.
City are going to spend crazy money in the summer and I don?t think they?ll want him. No-one but no-one is going to give them their £18 million back so it?s just a question of how much they can get and who else wants him. With the kind of figures being touted where City are concerned ie the failed £90 million bid for Kaka and rumoured £150 million for Messi, is a £10 million or so loss on Jo that significant to the Abu Dhabi backers?
Maybe some kind of structured deal starting at £5 million and rising to £8 million or so with appearances etc might be acceptable to all parties. I?d certainly go for it.
Jo is shite, simple as that. He is slow, can't finnish and can't stay onside... plus he is a big woman.
James Boden, are you daring to be the first one to definitely say who we’re going to sign this summer?
Can I join in in that case? I heard through my next door neighbour’s ex wife’s new husband’s old brother-in-law, who incidentally is a Villa fan but lives in Valencia that we will be signing Ashley Young and David Villa this summer. Oh and Riquelme.
Mark Cassin will confirm this!
Can I join in in that case? I heard through my next door neighbour’s ex wife’s new husband’s old brother-in-law, who incidentally is a Villa fan but lives in Valencia that we will be signing Ashley Young and David Villa this summer. Oh and Riquelme.
Mark Cassin will confirm this!
Alan Clarke I wasn?t actually being sarcastic ya know. You see City do not see anything in Jo and considering they are going to try and sign superstars this summer why would they want him? Hughes hasn?t seen anything special in him and neither have I but I believe City would be willing do business for maybe £6 million which I believe Moyes would accept.
I can’t see us signing him. Moyes needed a striker desperately in January and from all the other stories that came out after the transfer deadline passed, Jo was about the 4th or 5th choice. He’s done a job but I still think we’re very short on money and although £6 million is short change to City, it’s a massive amount for us. There’s more talent out there than Jo.
3 players that we could get for under 2 million each in the summer that would be good solid squad additions???
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1 Posted 04/05/2009 at 23:58:16
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Still, nice pass for Peanuts yesterday and he’s done enough for it to register as a good loan move by Moyes - but still, no way Jose should we be signing him.
We won’t.