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Respect?

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When we lose or draw at Fulham, fans on here go mad about losing points to such a small club. As we do when we lose or draw against Blackburn, Portsmouth etc.

Fans of those clubs would be angry and call us disrespectful.

John Terry, as Captain of Chelsea MUST believe that they are the BEST team in the country, so any draw at home would be considered points dropped and costly. Any points dropped to a team with no money, lots of injuries, a team that hasn't won anything in 14 years or a league in 23, is gonna be points dropped.

FFS, we consider them a great result so they are obviously a better team. We're still gonna stick it to them; however, ask non-Everton fans and most expect Chelsea to win FA Cup, of course they do.

What did you expect when Utd played City last week? or when Utd play Villa? or Chelsea play Villa? We all say, of course they are gonna win. is that ?disrespect??

This whole "short man's syndrome" that a few people have developed on here is getting a bit annoying. Searching every comment by everyone in football demanding that we are shown ?respect? (it reminds me of that white guy in The Wire who wants to be a drug dealer... if you don't watch it, you really should).

Do we show Chelsea respect? NO, we call them Chelski, only get success cos of money, a rich man's toy ? not a football club.

Do we show Liverpool respect? No, they are the SHITE, with an arrogant fat Spanish waiter as manager and only succeed due to 2 players and we chant "the baby's not yours".

Do we show United respect? NO, they are dirty mancs, a club that has stripped football of its sole, the Starbucks of the football world. Ronaldo is a dirty, whinging diver, Rooney is a dirty scumbag and recieves a torrent of abuse.

Yet, everytime a slight mention of Everton is made, unless they are saying great things like they are the next team to reach the top-4, you go mad. Even if Villa and City are mentioned as the next team, you go mad. But they both have loads of money, and we also say we will never be a top 4 team consistantly without that investment. So essentially you agree with the comments but you still go on a rage, screaming "look at me, look at me, like me, please like me".

Football isn't about respect (up to a point... there are limits of course), it's about fans and players of Everton saying we are the best, and every other clubs fans doing the same for our club.

I want us to win the Cup for US, then we can show the rest of the world we're coming, we're gonna be the best. We can stick it to that overrated cheating John Terry by showing our defense is better, and Vaughan is gonna give Terry nightmares. I also wanted this to happen yesterday, his comments are to justify why HE hasn't helped them win the league AGAIN.

JUST like we say we would have finished 4th if for the Villa, Arsenal, Blackburn, Newcastle etc games.
Fran Mitchell, Liverpool     Posted 16/05/2009 at 11:33:22

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Michael Kenrick
Good Post, Fran. Worth a thread of its own. The tribal nature of football often promotes a brain by-pass when it comes to footy.
Tony Williams
1   Posted 16/05/2009 at 21:50:33

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I am not too sure what this post actually means but I agree with it wholeheartedly.
Robert Jones
2   Posted 16/05/2009 at 22:43:39

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Completely agree, the "us against the world" attitude is ridiculous.
Ken Buckley
3   Posted 16/05/2009 at 22:18:13

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Good post Fran. I tend to take each game as it is played out. Expect the unexpected. Delight in a win, remorse in a defeat. The problem being we have no idea which game will bring delight or remorse. The games we fear most sometimes end in a win and delight; games we expect to win sometimes end in a loss and remorse.

I think at the end of the day, we all crave consistency from a well put together team that is challenging for honours on all fronts. How to get there and stay there ? not only for our club but all clubs ? is the life blood of the game... All want to be there,; when they are, all is rosy and bragging rights abound, and when they are not, then someone or something has to be blamed.

Football should be recognised as an imprecise sport that can can invoke highs and lows, what-ifs and if-onlys... but at all times enjoyed for its shear nationwide thought-provoking by fans, media, players and those who tell us what to think.

Today, Man Utd fans will be cock-a-hoop on winning the league. I crave the day we are in a similar position but until then I reserve the right to critisize, laud and question all who steer our club; also to boo, hiss and cheer until such time as we win something substantial and then continue to challenge for all honours year on year.

I may never see it in my lifetime but wishing and hopeing is the lifeblood of all football fans ? and long may it continue. May 30th may well be a good time for EFC to make a breakthrough ? we can but hope! I bet though if we ever did the treble of League, Cup and Champions League, we would all still have something to moan about. Ain't that just football??? Don?t yer just love it.

Gerry Morrison
4   Posted 17/05/2009 at 02:15:29

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I would be disappointed if we won the treble and Liverpool didn’t get relegated. Them staying up would take some of the shine off it for me.
Scott Robinson
5   Posted 17/05/2009 at 01:59:01

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Fran, fair play mate but your post really sums up the verý argument you are trying to argue against ? short man or ?tall poppy? syndrome. Please tell me one reason why we shouldn?t respect Liverpool or United. After all, they have won 36 PL titles between them.

The league does not lie either. Let?s not lower ourselves to such demeanour when we all know that deep down, such teams are stronger than us, even if it is down to a stronger financial position.

Having said that, what makes me proud to be an Evertonian is that we bust our gut beyond the call of duty and still end up competing against the Sky 4. Moyes respects them, so why should not we? Let?s lose our immaterial prejudices against our competition and focus on Everton FC.

Ste Blundell
6   Posted 17/05/2009 at 03:30:57

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So you want the Mancs to stay up then Gerry?
Call yourself an Evertonian?
Giles Larkman
7   Posted 17/05/2009 at 05:42:56

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It comes down to how it is said. It?s respectful to call another club ?smaller? (if they are), but to call any club in the Premier League "small", is disrespectful and downright retarded. That is on the premise that Premier League clubs are are usually, the biggest clubs in the nation. I'm well aware of Leeds, Newcastle, etc.

My proof, when that Spanish waiter called us a ?small? club, you know EXACTLY what he meant.
Ajay Gopal
8   Posted 17/05/2009 at 06:09:48

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Thought provoking article!

I think that all sensible managers genuinely respect all other football clubs in the Premier League. Even SAF, I don?t think when he sees West Brom next up thinks "Heh, heh, 3 points in the bag".

I am sure all teams when they see Everton on the schedule think: "Ooof, not Everton please". Harry Rednapp said last week that he was pleased to get a point against us. Isn?t that respect ?

I am sure Guus Hiddink is spending time and effort plotting ways to overcome us in the Final. It is not going to be easy for them, and they know it.

IMO, public statements made by coaches and players before and after a match are just for psychological morale boosting for the troops, or to get the crowd on your side. Ditto, Benitez?s class-less "small club" jibe. More to cover up his own frustrations/deficiencies.
Tony Cheek
9   Posted 17/05/2009 at 06:17:50

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Good one, Fran. It can get a bit "whingey" in here sometimes. We love our club, but every football fan thinks their club is best . That's just how it is.

Respect is a word you dont see too often on TW. I, for one, would like to see more of it amongst supporters. We are not alone and chasing that carrot (top 4 position, FA Cup) is what keeps us going.

Could you imagine a Premier League without United or Liverpool? ... I couldn?t .

We?ll get there one day and it will be great ... the ball is rolling now. COYB ... all the best at Wembley lads!!!

Iain Love
10   Posted 17/05/2009 at 10:03:01

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Fran it?s not the other clubs or players that ires me, it?s the media bias towards the Sky 4 and Spurs, Villa and even the Magpies at the start of the season ? and guess what: they are all below us... AGAIN!
Barry Kingham
11   Posted 17/05/2009 at 10:12:44

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Football fans are notoriously fickle - Everton?s included. One week Moyes is God, the next he should be sacked.

Accept that and move on.
Ryan Sloan
12   Posted 17/05/2009 at 11:05:21

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I totally agree with you, Iain. I was watching the Sunday Supplement this morning and it made me cringe as overpaid annoying journos sit round a table predicting the top 4, laughing as if it's obvious as if no-one's going to gatecrash their beloved top 4. Have they forgotten that we did it 4 years ago with a much less talented squad than now? Not that I'm suggesting we will next season but we should be in with a shout. If it's not us, I'd like to see someone else do it just to crack this monopoly.
Trevor Lynes
13   Posted 17/05/2009 at 11:21:20

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Fully agree Fran... I however think that Liverpool's 18 title wins were a better achievement as money was not a factor and all players in the old first division days were British and more or less every team in the league had a chance of winning the league.

I had a few punts on EFC and won a good few quid when they won it in ?85. We had won the league more times than United and not one of the media pundits ever mentions the fact that United went 27 years without winning the league title.

Nowadays, the title is won by any of four clubs and probably even less. Our Premier League is now becoming more and more like the Scottish league with only Rangers and Celtic having any real chance of honours.

I really enjoy being entertained by foreign stars but it has been at the expense of competition. I still prefer the days when I could have a bet on EFC winning the title and teams like Ipswich could spring surprises and win league titles. In all honesty I dont rate title wins as highly nowadays as money power has taken the REAL competition out of the equation.

Our city has the best record of title wins with 27 between EFC and Liverpool and all achieved when competition was much more equal. However, I must agree with Fran's sentiments and just blindly hating any other team diminishes us as fans.

Ben Jones
14   Posted 17/05/2009 at 12:08:26

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I think Gerry said they’d love it if Liverpool went down.... I wouldn’t be so thrilled. Then the Derby days will be gone... and those are the most anticipated, exciting matches of our season. My mate who is a Sunderland fan doesn’t really want Newcastle to go down for the same reason.
Paul Walsh
15   Posted 17/05/2009 at 12:05:45

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Fran I can see where you?re coming from. I?m not bothered what others think right now. All of us know that we?ve done nothing yet to justify the indignation some feel at perceived slights.

We?re at a precipice as I see it, knocking on the glass ceiling that separates us and the big four. We?re skint, patched up and, despite all the adversity, working like demons to smash through the glass. We play better ball than we did last year but still don?t keep it as well as we could. We?re short on pace overall in the front six but we adapt. It?s all very fragile.

We?ll win the Cup not because we?re better than Chelsea technically or athletically. We?ll win it because our desire collectively ? on the day ? will be be stronger than theirs. Terry understands this and he?ll be trying to galvanise his men to counter us in that respect. I just feel the momentum is with us. We?ll win the Cup and see where we are then. However, that will be the first time we?ll feel entitled to bridle at negative opinion.

Nick Entwistle
16   Posted 17/05/2009 at 12:29:04

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I’m not a fan of the word ’respect’. Respect in the sense of shell suit wearing chavs saying it.

’Are you disrespecting me?’

Fuck off.

Kinda thing people who will raise their fists say if you look at them wrongly.
Comes from a lack of self confidence...
Alex Naylor
17   Posted 17/05/2009 at 13:52:13

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Sometimes I am embrassed by some of the posts put up on here, yours Fran is perceptive, thought provoking and encouraging that most of the fans on here have a lot of common sense.
Adam Doyle
18   Posted 17/05/2009 at 14:28:33

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I find it very insulting you compare Everton to the idiotic Ziggy Sobotka on The Wire.
Shane Corcoran
19   Posted 17/05/2009 at 18:05:39

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This site and football fans in general are remarkable. We?ve had a couple of debates about respecting players which I think should be the case. Then you get the other side saying "I?m sure their big sarly will make up for it" or "I?ve paid my money so I?ll shout what I want". Yet Fran has made this intelligent post and none of such people reply to it. Perhaps it?s over their head? Good one, Fran. Be as passionate as you like but keep it in perspective. 'Tis only a game, albeit a beautiful one.
Derek Thomas
20   Posted 18/05/2009 at 03:11:13

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Yeah nice one fran. We, well most of us, know deep down that it IS only a game. But as has been said on here before we are a bit schizo and able at the drop of a hat to indulge in any amount of double think when it suits us.

There are times when we right down to the core, agree with Shankly’s tongue in cheek life and death comment and there is the whole crux of the matter, WAS he tongue in cheek? I think he knew the double think option and I think it’s about time we admit it, if only to our selves.

As for respect, it’s earned and for every decent fan you talk to, ours or others there are plenty of tossers, so pick and choose, but I don’ think you can judge all by one or two.

So don’t take it too serious after all it is more important than life or death, but not that much.
Will Leaf
21   Posted 18/05/2009 at 05:45:07

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I’m with Trevor on this one.

For me respect has become a bankrupt concept in the most recent Premier league era. Do I really care what some tosser journos think about Everton, when all they spout on about is the Top 4, and where they will finish in their small Group of four teams. Certainly no.

Do I respect Liverpool...no. Not what they are now. Last week they fielded a team of no English players for the first time in their history. I do respect Gerrard as a player, however, and if I am honest with myself, if I could pick one player to be on my team it would be him. I did respect what Liverpool did in the 70’s and 80’s. They had remarkable teams that were not simply built by financial bullying.

How can anyone respect Man Utd, this economic juggernaut that is essentially incapable of finishing outside the top 4. They have eaten football.

Chelsea, well what needs to be said.

Arsenal at least go on about things in a rational manner, though Wenger can certainly be infuriating at times. And what now is the main journo attack on Arsenal? They are not spending enough.

For me, I simply have a disgust for the Premier League as I feel that the game has been stolen from us. As above, we are Joe’s Cafe that has had a bloody Starbucks open next door and they are driving us to abject extinction. We cannot compete unless we too sell our souls...and even then.

Some are happy to have the best players in the world playing on these shores. I don’t think I am being insular by preferring the days when the sides comprised British/Republic players and the idea of Ardiles/Villa was a downright novelty. That is what made the World Cups extra special, because you would see all these exotic players as a rarity. European nights would also be that more interesting. And back then, I believe fans were generally proud when British teams did well in Europe. What do we have now? You sit there and fear for all the prize money the Sky 4 are winning and will bring to bear the next season.

For me, respect is best given to the Stoke’s and the Reading’s, who face a much larger challenge than the Top 4 finishing in the top 4.
Trevor Payne
22   Posted 17/05/2009 at 16:40:43

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.....even though it's from Piers Morgan!

OK, it might not be much but at least it's a start. In the Sunday Mail, Piers Morgan has rated Tim Howard and Phil Jagielka to be in the Premier League team of the season.

Top marks for Piers to notice the consistency and talents of these two players over the season.

America and Britain does have talent!


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