On a post, quite recently, I made the point that we were lucky in having players and a coach who didn't cheat. There were some robust respones and I was accused of having a 'holier than thou' attitude.
However, I believe strongly that there is something I believe to be "The Everton Way". It is why we are supporters and it is what it makes us different from Benitez and his divided side. Here's a question. Would you have one of our players blatantly dive to win us the Cup Final? More importantly, would you have one of our players dive to save us from relegation?
My own view, soft as it might seem, is that I'd rather see us relegated than cheat. Look at the men who have been before. Dean, Lawton, Young... Diving? They wouldn't know what it meant.
In my opinion, we have the most honest squad in the league, and Phil Neville has played a huge part in that.
Andy Crooks, Posted 18/05/2009 at 19:23:16
Note: the following content is not moderated or vetted by the site owners at the time of submission. Comments are the responsibility of the poster. Disclaimer
1 Posted 19/05/2009 at 03:00:47
I can see where you are coming from but your questions are totally bizarre.
"Would I have one of our players blatantly dive to save us from relegation... or to win the cup final?"
Frankly, against Chelsea... I would trip the bastards myself.
WBA tried to play honest football and got relegated while Stoke used every opportunity to survive. What is the difference?
Ask their bank managers!
The culture of our club is built on both morality and honesty but in a one off situation - fuck Chelsea.
When they are running around parading the FA Cup would you feel comfortable saying... "Well at least we played fair!"
Jagielka should've been sent off in the semi-final but kept his mouth shut... now we face Chelsea, was that honest?
I don?t care how we survive relegation or win the cup... as long as we do.
2 Posted 19/05/2009 at 03:47:14
Of course I want Everton to win clean and 99% of the time we do, but I won’t be worried if we win the cup off a dubious pendalty so long as we take home the cup. Actually I think a penalty against a team like Chelsea would be somewhat poetic considering how many instances the refs have ignored clear fouls against us in the past
3 Posted 19/05/2009 at 07:38:13
4 Posted 19/05/2009 at 08:18:33
5 Posted 19/05/2009 at 09:04:47
A West Ham supporting friend dispises many of his players. Dyer and Bellamy when he was there, and a few others that were on his most hated list before they transferred to the Hammers.
I guess the emphasis by Moyes to concentrate on charater means there’s less of this cheating in our squad.
Jo took a dive and won a penalty on his debut, he hasn’t done it since. Maybe Moyes had a word.
People say its part of the game, but not my game, and thankfully not Everton’s.
6 Posted 19/05/2009 at 09:18:27
7 Posted 19/05/2009 at 09:07:54
Should we be awarded a penalty in the Final due to a blatant dive, I would want the taker to put it wide on purpose, in the style of the Corinthian Casuals. I expect Chelsea to do the same!
8 Posted 19/05/2009 at 09:27:00
9 Posted 19/05/2009 at 10:20:09
I would be cheering the fact that we have got a penalty against Chavski and fully expect the taker to do his upmost to score it.
Nick the reason the "Limpar response" always turns up is due to the absolute massive implications it had against the Wombles.
10 Posted 19/05/2009 at 10:35:00
11 Posted 19/05/2009 at 10:41:15
What I’m trying to say is that there are levels of cheating that we (as fans) consider to be immoral vs levels that are moral. And it seems to me as though fans only dislike the snidey side of cheating - the diving and the feigning of injury, or "showing a card" to the ref to try and get an opponent booked. But when players make a strong tackle but deliberately follow through on the opponent in order to "let them know they’re there" it is seen as fine.
I’m not suggesting I have all the answers, but if we were trying to get high and mighty about this then we would frown on all types of cheating. But we don’t. Therefore I think it’s best summed up like this: if we win a penalty because someone has dived and win the cup as a result I will still celebrate, but it will leave a slightly bitter taste in the mouth. But if Howard saves a pen to win us the cup by jumping 5 yards off his line (cheating) I will not care one jot. Like I say, it’s because some forms of cheating are considered to be moral and others are seen as immoral, when really they are one and the same.
On the subject of divers in our squad, I do generally believe we are one of the better teams for not diving. However, I have seen Yakubu and Anichebe both dive this season (one at home to Liverpool, the other away), whilst I also believe that Pienaar goes to ground far too easily, as does Cahill sometimes. I wouldn’t call either of these players divers, but they come pretty close.
12 Posted 19/05/2009 at 11:01:29
As stated everyone cheats to a certain extent, it is the blatant diving cheats that make my blood boil.
Gerrard has his flailing swan dive down to a tee, especially the swift turn of the head to look at the ref as he is going down. The you-tube video, Steven Gerrard - The Hipocrite is hilarious.
Yak, Peanut, Arteta and sometimes Cahill do go down too easy sometimes and I cringe when I see it happen but if Cahill does his best Platoon impression to win a pen to win the Cup, I am more than prepared to overlook it on that one occassion.
13 Posted 19/05/2009 at 12:28:45
14 Posted 19/05/2009 at 12:35:48
If Everton took to playing like cheats on a regular basis, I’d stop watching them. Such a team would not merit my support. End of.
There is no more point to winning by cheating than winning by simply having more money than anyone else, and being able to buy a player for £20m+ and have him on the bench (SWP) so he can’t play for anyone else.
I would always rather play honestly against a stacked deck and then, whenever a win could be secured against such odds, all the sweeter it’d be.
Winning by cheating is not winning, it is simply self-delusion and cheapens our great club.
15 Posted 19/05/2009 at 12:43:00
I would rather we were known as the School of Science and playing in the lower leagues than be a School for Scandal in the Premiership.
16 Posted 19/05/2009 at 12:57:23
Whilst I respect your viewpoint, what's the point when you won't be acknowledged anyway? Whilst I thought Di Canio v us years back was brilliant and admire him for it, if it was relegation on the line, there's no doubt I'd be more than happy to cheat to keep my beloved Everton in the Premier League!
17 Posted 19/05/2009 at 12:59:35
Even worse than diving for me is the shit that Liverpool got up to in the FA Cup derby. It happened on a number of occasions most notably by Torres when he was dispossessed by Jagielka. He went down like a sack of spuds. Jagielka laid the ball off to Arteta on the right who flicked the ball past two static redshite players and had a free run on goal down the right flank. The two redshite ran after him shouting (I think one of them was Carragher) and pointing to the dying Torres. Arteta put the ball out of play and immediately he did so Torres jumped up and trotted to the halfway line (he was lying prone about 10 yards outside the Everton area)
That would be the sort of behaviour I would find it hard to tolerate from Everton players and as far as I am concerned I have never seen it happen.
Arteta and Peanut do not dive as such but Arteta especially will make sure he goes down if there is a hint of a foul and sometimes he does get the occasional free kick he may not really be entitled to. Liverpool got quite a few points this season as a result of Gerrards dives in and into the area. That is something we don’t do and neither is it something I would like us to do habitually.
But I wouldn’t cry too much if we did it once and won the cup as a result!
18 Posted 19/05/2009 at 13:19:49
19 Posted 19/05/2009 at 14:05:04
...next up: Some say it’s a part of the modern game and that it’s all a piece of entertainment and sportsmanship and getting the upper hand. Years ago we had players like The Chopper and players who would only come on to take a player out! Most teams had one. It’s been outlawed now but it was seen as part of the game.
These days diving is on the rise and only video replays will remove it from the game.
20 Posted 19/05/2009 at 14:11:36
We’ve all waited 14 YEARS for a cup final - to cheat to "win" will simply ruin it all!
21 Posted 19/05/2009 at 13:27:30
I do think though our team is as honest as they come, and that is reflected in both the manager and the captain. When fouled they get straight up, there is no surrounding the referee, and they generally go about their business in the right way.
I think the respect Moyes gets from his peers not only takes into consideration the results but the way the team approaches the game as well.
22 Posted 19/05/2009 at 15:09:46
I would love to say that we don't do this but lately I have seen Cahill and Jo roll around like they habe been shot in an attempt to gain an unfair advantage.
I think the players should look at Steven Pienaar?s goal against Sunderland and learn from that. He could have easily gone down but chose to stay on his feet and score.
Now that's the Everton Way!
23 Posted 19/05/2009 at 15:13:50
If players like Barton and Nolan are around kicking the shit out of the more talented players then diving is just self-protection. I’m not justifying all diving but if Essien or Terry spend 90 minutes kicking Pienaar and Osman and one of them takes a dive for a penalty then I’ll be celebrating and sticking 2 fingers up at Chelsea.
24 Posted 19/05/2009 at 15:35:18
AJ went down easily too, remember. But if it takes one of the team shooting his gran to beat Chelski then that will do for me!!
25 Posted 19/05/2009 at 15:42:23
For those who remember the infamous Wimbledon game, well for me the biggest cheat of the match was by Hans Segars when he gladly rolled his arm back in and let us score and keep us up. Or how about the night before when some of our own supporters set the Dons coach alight at a service station!!! Just a bit of sportsmanship I guess.
How about Drunken Duncan coming on the pitch as a sub and strangling our opponents' players or just a little dig to the solar plexus. We have been no strangers to all of this crap but I will take a helping hand from the ref in the final and then at least the press can?t blame us.....
26 Posted 19/05/2009 at 16:27:08
Diving is despicable, as is the simulation of injury to stop the game to your advantage (see Dave Roberts?s example of RS cheating above), and our lads do this far far less than most others. This doesn?t mean never, but we can be quite properly proud of the way they they play.
27 Posted 19/05/2009 at 16:34:25
I agree with the above that it should indeed be the referee’s job to "police" whether a player dives or not, but it is clear to see that it is not working.
Putting a penalty wide on purpose was a joke, as hoping Chelsea do the same..well, the stars would fall out of the sky first. Those fans that would happily accept a dive from an Everton player for a Cup win, however, are simply condoning the cheating antics of the Drogba’s, the petulance of the Ballack’s, and the (insert your paragraph here) of the Ronaldo’s. You should have no complaints when Drogba manages to put one over the referee on Saturday next.
Hey, if it works...
28 Posted 19/05/2009 at 17:02:57
There’s not much love in these parts for Slim Boy Rooney, but I suggest that one thing you can say in his favour is that he plays the game ’hard but fair’ as they used to say. Terrible mistimed tackles are part of his game, but they aren’t ’cheating’.
For all his faults he was brought up well as a footballer.
29 Posted 19/05/2009 at 18:23:57
Yes, I guess we can allow the pantomime villain that is Wayne Rooney that much.
But no more, mind.
30 Posted 19/05/2009 at 18:55:10
31 Posted 19/05/2009 at 19:21:39
32 Posted 19/05/2009 at 20:10:16
"It?s part of the game" is the run of the mill excuse just like running after the ref like Drogba & Ballack did is part of the game, just like fans shouting abuse at players is part of the game. And fans such as ourselves condoning it is part of the game and we wonder what?s wrong with the game. I?m off to watch some snooker...
33 Posted 19/05/2009 at 20:21:27
34 Posted 19/05/2009 at 20:19:56
Mikel Arteta grew up in a football world where possession of the ball is everything. The laws of the game enshrine this - you are allowed to put your body between your opponent and the ball if it is under your control. We sometimes call it ’shielding the ball’.
In this position, if the other bloke pushes or kicks you, he is in the wrong. And, what’s more, stupid bastard, its his fault if you fall over and a free kick is awarded - sometimes alled ’inviting the foul’, although I rate this as a no brainer..
Cheating happens when someone like Gerrard hits the deck when nobody has touched him, usually in the box.
Incidentally, referees award free kicks to players like Mikel outside the box, but not inside. They let players like Carragher get away with murder inside the box which might even be carded outside it.
Funny old game.
35 Posted 20/05/2009 at 10:19:07
We have our fair share of dodgy characters, including one of out most favoured players!
Cahill is one of the most manipulative players in the league..closely followed by Yakubu and Vic. Arteta uses the system well..and Fellaini doesn’t know the rules of the game.
You should’ve taken the advice from your first article....’hollier than thou nonsense’.
36 Posted 20/05/2009 at 13:13:15
whatever gave you that impression?