The Mail Bag
Touting
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I am desperately trying to secure 4 tickets for some blues who are not eligible for one via the club. As such I have been scouring the internet and through various sources came across a guy in London who was selling 4 seats together.
I contacted him and asked if he would sell 4 for the £1000 that they were prepared to pay. His response to me was that £1000 was face value and he had been offered £2400 ? could I beat it? I said yes and agreed to pay £2500.
Now the fun part ? I abhor touts and their ways. Neither I nor my friends have any intention of paying this money and I am basically stringing him along on the proviso that we meet up next Wednesday in the smoke to do the transaction. He can?t do it any later as the poor bloke is flying to New York on the Thursday.
My dilemma is this ? when do I tell him that I am not going through with the transaction? I think next Wednesday so he struggles to get rid of them but my moral compass is telling me to stop being so moralistic, let it go and tell him now.
Who is in the wrong here? Me for filling him with shite when I knew he was charging way more than we were prepared to pay or him for blatantly making £1500 without batting an eyelid?
Some blue thoughts would be appreciated and obviously if anyone wants to pay the £2500 please let me know.
PS - As a side note he did finish his last email with his company website so "If you want to check me out
you know I'm not some tout" !
Gareth Humphreys, Posted 20/05/2009 at 15:22:46
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PS Google cup final tickets and see what you get. Can the FA/police not do this?
This guy though is just the street dealer, we should really go after the suppliers... oh that's the FA... hhmm..
Secondly: there is an issue around Club Wembley. If the FA encourage the sale of long term seats in Club Wembley, One of the benefits for Club Wembley Seat owners is that they can leagally sell their tickets back to Wembley, who will then sell them on the ticket holders behalf and re-imburse the debenture holder the full price for that match. I?m sure touts must get hold of those tickets for Wembley to guarantee reimbursement in full. They do this to sell Club Wembley seats. I?m not sure if FA Cup Finals are on the list of Club Wembley games but if they?re not then the Club Wembley seat owner would have an option to buy which he probably does and then sells at a profit.
Thirdly: it is naive to think that you can get rid of ticket touts. You need to understand macroeconomics (the big picture as opposed to microeconomics) but, part of economics is the black market. If someone WANTS TO SELL at a price and someone WANTS TO BUY at a price how can it be policed? It can?t.
Four: I think ticket touts serve a great purpose. Many events are stitched up by club's associations and hangers on. It?s not fair that we have to pay over the odds but at least they give the opportunity for people who don?t fall into those categories to buy a ticket.
The FA are naive if they think they can shut down websites. Who in their right mind after buying a ticket from a tout at a price are going to report them to the FA. Touts serve a need because organisations like the FA are totally incompetent and cannot fairly distribute tickets to the real hardcore supporters. It?s those who they ignore and exploit that make the FA?s very existence even remotely possible. Don?t blame the touts. Blame the FA.
But Gav Ram has a point as well: there is a nasty underbelly to touting which means some of our lads might also get ripped off by a tout accompanied by a couple of biffos.
My view is not to meet him, but string him along anyway.
I dislike ticket touts too, but he has 4 tickets to a Cup Final and is trying to sell them for over 10x what they are worth ? if someone pays that price then he is a good business man. This tout obviously isn?t an Evertonian or maybe even a football fan, he gets his hands on something and sells on for a higher price. It's basic business and although you may find his tactics undesirable e.g. demanding excessive amounts, tell lies about flying to New York, it has nothing to do with you ? it?s none of your business. He has made you an offer; you take it or leave it.
You sound like quite a devious character, I?d rather know a successful business man (tout), than someone who is seeking encouragement to plan an orchestrated assault/robbery on someone trying to flog a ticket.
?but my moral compass is telling me to stop being so moralistic?. (classic)
Just remember, if you buys these tickets in some underhand way, the seller knows exactly where you?ll be (which 4 seats) on Saturday 30th May if he wants to take some revenge!!! Beware!! Particularly if he?s not going to New York and has other tickets for himself and burly friends!!
In the words of Les Denis... if this "tout" turned up with the tickets, I?d give you the money myself.
You complete imbecile ? your apology is accepted.
Has anyone actually seen what a Cup Final ticket looks like yet as I’m still waiting for the club to send mine despite taking the money 2 weeks ago and it showing on my eticketing for 10 days!!!
Makes it harder to spot a forgery doesn’t it when you never see an original !!!!
?Successful businessman? my arse ? opportunist parasite is my definition. Successful businessmen work within the law and build respect, whilst the earn their corn ? touts are working outside of the law and should be, pursued, caught prosecuted.
And Gareth... wind your neck in, Poirot.
If he works for an intenet based agency then it is entirely legal for him to sell these tickets on the proviso he informs you of face value. It is the trading on street corners which is illegal.
He is trying to sell tickets that you have no official right to, so how dare you do him out of thousands other people are willing to pay.
If it was 10% above that of face value would that be enough to dismiss your abhorance of the situation?
It is not he, but the FA who need to look at this, and if some blues spend thousands (because they can afford it!) on an amazing day when you cannot, why screw things up for a fellow blue and have him go to the final instead ?cos you had a little scam you can boast about to your mates down the pub feeling the warmth of your own smarm...
Is this post to ask advice and opinion or to massage your smug sense of self-satisfaction?
I?m sure you?re really nice though.
"Successful buisnessman" ? I guess we can class drug dealers as such too then?
£2500 for 4 tickets to a football match is indefensible, cannot be rationalised and should be abhorent to all of us ? whether this guy is a legit online agency or not. I considered buying a Club Wembley seat, knowing I could make my money back easily on occasions just like this but it?s amoral.
The real problem is the FA, the ludicrous Club Wembley scheme they delivered for a quick immediate cash injection, and the thousands upon thousands of tickets going to the football family which will end up being touted to both sets of blues before 30th May. There's something badly wrong when we don't all agree that both clubs should have received a least 40,000 tickets each.
I wouldn't do it to my own family and mates of course but fact is we don't care about them and they certainly don't care about us! Get real!!!
About £500-ish is the going rate if you wanna be there. You have the choice to say no and watch it in the boozer because you're not getting any tickets for £250 a pop FULL STOP.
There is blue?s that will pay £500 for a ticket, maybe more, and the money means nothing to them because they have it, that means there is 4 more of us in the final.
I have been a season ticket holder since day dot and go everywhere with them, what makes you think you can pick up a ticket for a shitty £250? If I knew I could get £600 more my ticket and club wembley backs this, why the fuck would I sell it to you for £250 just because you're a "fellow blue"???
For me to miss that game, it would take something pretty fucking special and the price PS3 wont do it!!! Get a grip lad!!!!!!!!!!!!! Tell him now and let 4 others in the ground instead of getting him nicked!!
Who in their right mind would turn down an offer of 10 times the official issue price? Let?s face it, you made an offer and the "tout" stated he could get more so you offered more.
No one complains when they purchase a replica kit at £40 when the factory sells it to the retailer at considerably less. Same principle.
(1) He is not a tout, he is a Club Wembley member selling his own seats.
(2) I have no intention of "grassing" him up at all.
All I am doing is making it as awkward as possible for someone trying to make a quick buck off the back of football fans. If that's a crime ? shoot me.
Jeez, Gareth... so he?s not even a tout, he owns these seats himself?
Let it go. Stop trying to be a moral authority. Your actions won't change anything.
And people who go our their way to specifically waste someone?s time do deserve to be shot, yes.
Everyones a winner then I say.
COYB
As I understand the law, it is the act of reselling without permission which is illegal. Viagogo is one of the few entities that is actually permitted legally to resell tickets.
Is the price of resold tickets actually controlled? The FA make plenty of noise about touts but price elasticity and the laws of Supply and Demand are clearly a lot stronger then their mealy mouthed pontifications.
The real double standards here belong firstly to the FA, who create the situation (as discussed to death on these pages) and then by the fans themselves, who on the one hand bemoan paying inflated prices for tickets but then do exactly that because they believe it is the only way they can get to attend the game.
I’m not in any way blaming the fans as they really have no choice, other than to forego what is a unique experience unrivaled on the domestic calendar. If the FA wants to be so precious about touts, reselling, and price gouging, they must know it is they who need to do far far better.
"How many have you got says the Blue?" and this soft get pulled out about 20. Cue mayhem, the Blue landed one staright on his beak and his minder started to move in, just as at least 20 scousers piled on top of him. The arsehole minder bricked it and was on his toes. When everyone legged it, a copper walked over shaking his head and calling the lad all the stupid barstewards under the sun. "You?ve got 30,000 scousers looking for tickets you stupid git, and you get a handful out!!" One fell into my lap from thin air, by the way!
Now I?d never go to a concert out of principle if it is over £30 in total... and don?t get me started on how it was down to Madonna that any band can now charge £60 for a concert and think it's fair...
He makes himself believable by saying he wants to sell via E-BAY. And then the really sneaky bit is his Paypal is out of action so you have to pay by Western Union cash transfer and he will then send the tickets.
A fake e-mail from E-Bay is sent to you making it all seem real. But it’s a scam! It’s from somebody called Tim Donnelly in Manchester ( if that’s his real name ) and the money goes to him via Western Union and you’ll never see a ticket.
I thought it was too good to be true and it is. Luckily I didn’t go through with it, but it was clever enough to fool some people. I just hope no Evertonians have fallen for it.
I’m all for Kev Sparke’s solution as it goes. These people aren’t businessmen, they are thieves and scumbags and a good kicking is what they need. Just remember to wash your shoes after!
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1 Posted 20/05/2009 at 20:41:15
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