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Touting

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I am desperately trying to secure 4 tickets for some blues who are not eligible for one via the club. As such I have been scouring the internet and through various sources came across a guy in London who was selling 4 seats together.

I contacted him and asked if he would sell 4 for the £1000 that they were prepared to pay. His response to me was that £1000 was face value and he had been offered £2400 ? could I beat it? I said yes and agreed to pay £2500.

Now the fun part ? I abhor touts and their ways. Neither I nor my friends have any intention of paying this money and I am basically stringing him along on the proviso that we meet up next Wednesday in the smoke to do the transaction. He can?t do it any later as the poor bloke is flying to New York on the Thursday.

My dilemma is this ? when do I tell him that I am not going through with the transaction? I think next Wednesday so he struggles to get rid of them but my moral compass is telling me to stop being so moralistic, let it go and tell him now.

Who is in the wrong here? Me for filling him with shite when I knew he was charging way more than we were prepared to pay or him for blatantly making £1500 without batting an eyelid?

Some blue thoughts would be appreciated and obviously if anyone wants to pay the £2500 please let me know.

PS - As a side note he did finish his last email with his company website so "If you want to check me out you know I'm not some tout" !
Gareth Humphreys, Formby     Posted 20/05/2009 at 15:22:46

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Ged Alexander
1   Posted 20/05/2009 at 20:41:15

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In theory, he is committing an offence. Inform the FA and challenge them to set up a sting. Otherwise, keep your options open to the last minute.
Simon Dunne
2   Posted 20/05/2009 at 20:46:29

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I doubt you are the only one telling Porkies. Going to New York? Ya right.. If not done by Wed he will look elsewhere. I?m sure he has a few on stand by..
Micky Norman
3   Posted 20/05/2009 at 21:08:50

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Meet up. I know a copper in London who would love an easy collar. Tout scumbag deserves it.

PS Google cup final tickets and see what you get. Can the FA/police not do this?

Joeynkoo Ludden
4   Posted 20/05/2009 at 21:29:45

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Do a MacIntyre job on him, turn up with a hidden camera and get it all on tape.

This guy though is just the street dealer, we should really go after the suppliers... oh that's the FA... hhmm..
Kev Sparke
5   Posted 20/05/2009 at 21:54:46

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Turn up with a couple of heavies, pay them £500 each; beat the shite out of him and rob the tickets... Of course you can't do that because it?s illegal ? but isn?t touting also illegal?
Phlip Bunting
6   Posted 20/05/2009 at 22:32:05

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String him along... FA have a lot to answer for! Wankers.
Charlie Percival
7   Posted 20/05/2009 at 23:34:42

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Firstly: There were touts posing as Everton fans on the Berkshire Blues website offering tickets but the BB caught on and ignored ther emails.

Secondly: there is an issue around Club Wembley. If the FA encourage the sale of long term seats in Club Wembley, One of the benefits for Club Wembley Seat owners is that they can leagally sell their tickets back to Wembley, who will then sell them on the ticket holders behalf and re-imburse the debenture holder the full price for that match. I?m sure touts must get hold of those tickets for Wembley to guarantee reimbursement in full. They do this to sell Club Wembley seats. I?m not sure if FA Cup Finals are on the list of Club Wembley games but if they?re not then the Club Wembley seat owner would have an option to buy which he probably does and then sells at a profit.

Thirdly: it is naive to think that you can get rid of ticket touts. You need to understand macroeconomics (the big picture as opposed to microeconomics) but, part of economics is the black market. If someone WANTS TO SELL at a price and someone WANTS TO BUY at a price how can it be policed? It can?t.

Four: I think ticket touts serve a great purpose. Many events are stitched up by club's associations and hangers on. It?s not fair that we have to pay over the odds but at least they give the opportunity for people who don?t fall into those categories to buy a ticket.

The FA are naive if they think they can shut down websites. Who in their right mind after buying a ticket from a tout at a price are going to report them to the FA. Touts serve a need because organisations like the FA are totally incompetent and cannot fairly distribute tickets to the real hardcore supporters. It?s those who they ignore and exploit that make the FA?s very existence even remotely possible. Don?t blame the touts. Blame the FA.
Gavin Ramejkis
8   Posted 20/05/2009 at 23:42:16

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It’s not beyond the realms of possibility that there might be a few big lads who do this and give the touts a good hiding and take the tickets for nothing or vice versa some poor sod turns up at some hole in the smoke with a pocket full of readies and gets ripped off by some big lads waiting for another mug.
Chris Matty
9   Posted 21/05/2009 at 00:04:26

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It is to my eternal shame that even now I am laughing out loud at Kev Sparke?s sugggestion. I hold these touts in utter contempt, worse than vermin and in the pecking order of honour above only the FA in ths sorry business.

But Gav Ram has a point as well: there is a nasty underbelly to touting which means some of our lads might also get ripped off by a tout accompanied by a couple of biffos.

My view is not to meet him, but string him along anyway.
Joe Barnes
10   Posted 21/05/2009 at 00:03:38

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So, you want four tickets (that you are not entitled to), you then turn to the black market and find a tout who tries to rip you off. This is what you expected, but now you plan to trap this ?criminal? for your own gains on the assumption that two wrongs make a right. And you?re wondering about whether you?re on morally good ground? Gareth Humphreys; you are an idiot.

I dislike ticket touts too, but he has 4 tickets to a Cup Final and is trying to sell them for over 10x what they are worth ? if someone pays that price then he is a good business man. This tout obviously isn?t an Evertonian or maybe even a football fan, he gets his hands on something and sells on for a higher price. It's basic business and although you may find his tactics undesirable e.g. demanding excessive amounts, tell lies about flying to New York, it has nothing to do with you ? it?s none of your business. He has made you an offer; you take it or leave it.

You sound like quite a devious character, I?d rather know a successful business man (tout), than someone who is seeking encouragement to plan an orchestrated assault/robbery on someone trying to flog a ticket.

?but my moral compass is telling me to stop being so moralistic?. (classic)

Matthew Salem
11   Posted 21/05/2009 at 00:18:35

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He may very well have some big lads with him to give you a hiding and take your money. If not, bring your mates bash the cunt for being such a filthy opportunist.
Ryan Sloan
12   Posted 21/05/2009 at 00:46:56

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Have you never thought that he might not look on ToffeeWeb looking for other prey and stumble upon your article? There's no way he'll give you them cheaper when he knows someone else will pay.
Rob Smith
13   Posted 21/05/2009 at 01:02:56

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Is this CSI Liverpool or something??
John Roberts
14   Posted 21/05/2009 at 02:40:08

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Gareth,

Just remember, if you buys these tickets in some underhand way, the seller knows exactly where you?ll be (which 4 seats) on Saturday 30th May if he wants to take some revenge!!! Beware!! Particularly if he?s not going to New York and has other tickets for himself and burly friends!!
Dave Wilson
15   Posted 21/05/2009 at 05:35:16

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Difficult to work out who is the most gullible here, people who want to do illegal face-to-face transactions involving thousands of pounds want to do it now, today. Trust me, these things are not arranged by 2:45 appointment some time next week.

In the words of Les Denis... if this "tout" turned up with the tickets, I?d give you the money myself.
Gareth Humphreys
16   Posted 21/05/2009 at 07:30:55

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Joe Barnes, I suggest you have another read of the article and ask yourself at what point I have stated I want to "trap this ciriminal for my own gain" The questions I asked is, "At what point do I not tell him I?m not going through with the transaction?" ? NOT "Do I have the people's ok to turn up and rob him?"

You complete imbecile ? your apology is accepted.
Gary Hegarty
17   Posted 21/05/2009 at 07:55:27

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Hang on....are those my tickets he’s selling???

Has anyone actually seen what a Cup Final ticket looks like yet as I’m still waiting for the club to send mine despite taking the money 2 weeks ago and it showing on my eticketing for 10 days!!!

Makes it harder to spot a forgery doesn’t it when you never see an original !!!!
Kev Sparke
18   Posted 21/05/2009 at 08:20:55

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Just to clarify, my post was very much tongue in cheek; and I am in no way advocating that any supporter should commit an act of violence on anyone ? even against a low life thieving piece of pond filth like our ticket tout.

?Successful businessman? my arse ? opportunist parasite is my definition. Successful businessmen work within the law and build respect, whilst the earn their corn ? touts are working outside of the law and should be, pursued, caught prosecuted.
Tony Williams
19   Posted 21/05/2009 at 08:54:46

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Gary, my mates picked our group's tickets up from Goodison yesterday. He doesn?t trust Royal Mail and actually saved the extortionate £4.50 delivery charge in doing so... so they do exist.

And Gareth... wind your neck in, Poirot.
Tony Lynch
20   Posted 21/05/2009 at 09:25:54

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Gareth you need to have a word with yourself and stop being a sneaky little grass. I?d rather have a bevvy with this tout than with you. Jarg bizzie snitch.
Nick Entwistle
21   Posted 21/05/2009 at 10:12:39

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Gareth, you?re a smug self righteous supposed do-gooder.

If he works for an intenet based agency then it is entirely legal for him to sell these tickets on the proviso he informs you of face value. It is the trading on street corners which is illegal.

He is trying to sell tickets that you have no official right to, so how dare you do him out of thousands other people are willing to pay.

If it was 10% above that of face value would that be enough to dismiss your abhorance of the situation?

It is not he, but the FA who need to look at this, and if some blues spend thousands (because they can afford it!) on an amazing day when you cannot, why screw things up for a fellow blue and have him go to the final instead ?cos you had a little scam you can boast about to your mates down the pub feeling the warmth of your own smarm...

Is this post to ask advice and opinion or to massage your smug sense of self-satisfaction?

I?m sure you?re really nice though.
Joeynkoo Ludden
22   Posted 21/05/2009 at 10:54:54

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I can?t believe the amount of defense for this tout. I think Gareth?s motives are selfless, but this is TW and I?ve never seen one thread where we don't have polarised opinions.

"Successful buisnessman" ? I guess we can class drug dealers as such too then?

£2500 for 4 tickets to a football match is indefensible, cannot be rationalised and should be abhorent to all of us ? whether this guy is a legit online agency or not. I considered buying a Club Wembley seat, knowing I could make my money back easily on occasions just like this but it?s amoral.

The real problem is the FA, the ludicrous Club Wembley scheme they delivered for a quick immediate cash injection, and the thousands upon thousands of tickets going to the football family which will end up being touted to both sets of blues before 30th May. There's something badly wrong when we don't all agree that both clubs should have received a least 40,000 tickets each.
John Jones
23   Posted 21/05/2009 at 10:45:42

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Well it ?s like this and I?ll be brutally honest. If I had obtained 4 FA Cup Final tickets for say a Manure v Chelski final and I had paid face value say £200 for the lot ....... then some London ?ticket agency? comes along and offers me £2,000 for them then, I?m afraid I?d take the money and run! How many of us wouldn't?

I wouldn't do it to my own family and mates of course but fact is we don't care about them and they certainly don't care about us! Get real!!!
Neil Pearse
24   Posted 21/05/2009 at 11:06:04

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The problem is 100% the FA. If you give tens of thousands of tickets to people who basically don’t want them, they will sell them on at a huge mark up to people who desperately do want them. As sure as night follows day.
Ben Chambers
25   Posted 21/05/2009 at 11:44:52

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At the end of the day, Gareth, for you to expect to get a ticket for £250 ? no, 4 tickets in fact at that price, you're mental lad!!!

About £500-ish is the going rate if you wanna be there. You have the choice to say no and watch it in the boozer because you're not getting any tickets for £250 a pop FULL STOP.

There is blue?s that will pay £500 for a ticket, maybe more, and the money means nothing to them because they have it, that means there is 4 more of us in the final.

I have been a season ticket holder since day dot and go everywhere with them, what makes you think you can pick up a ticket for a shitty £250? If I knew I could get £600 more my ticket and club wembley backs this, why the fuck would I sell it to you for £250 just because you're a "fellow blue"???

For me to miss that game, it would take something pretty fucking special and the price PS3 wont do it!!! Get a grip lad!!!!!!!!!!!!! Tell him now and let 4 others in the ground instead of getting him nicked!!
Anthony Hawkins
26   Posted 21/05/2009 at 11:53:12

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Whilst the issue probably is largely due to the FA?s distribution policy, it?s also a natural law of supply v demand. The Supply is low and the Demand is high therefore the price will go up.

Who in their right mind would turn down an offer of 10 times the official issue price? Let?s face it, you made an offer and the "tout" stated he could get more so you offered more.

No one complains when they purchase a replica kit at £40 when the factory sells it to the retailer at considerably less. Same principle.
Gareth Humphreys
27   Posted 21/05/2009 at 12:46:43

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I think some people are missing the point here:

(1) He is not a tout, he is a Club Wembley member selling his own seats.
(2) I have no intention of "grassing" him up at all.

All I am doing is making it as awkward as possible for someone trying to make a quick buck off the back of football fans. If that's a crime ? shoot me.

Tony Williams
28   Posted 21/05/2009 at 13:15:54

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Gareth, I get where you are coming from but look on the flip side, you are potentially stopping 4 ardent fans who are prepared to pay the scandalous amount for the tickets from going to our biggest game in 14 years.
Nick Entwistle
29   Posted 21/05/2009 at 13:32:25

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He is not a tout, he is a club wembley member selling his own seats?

Jeez, Gareth... so he?s not even a tout, he owns these seats himself?

Let it go. Stop trying to be a moral authority. Your actions won't change anything.
Rob Smith
30   Posted 21/05/2009 at 13:37:01

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Ok I will get my gun!
Joe Barnes
31   Posted 21/05/2009 at 13:30:43

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Gareth Humphreys, you sound like a proper miserable bastard. My advice would be act as soon as possible with the tickets before he flies to NY!!

And people who go our their way to specifically waste someone?s time do deserve to be shot, yes.
Ian Smith
32   Posted 21/05/2009 at 13:44:49

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I suggest you reinvest your time and look for another option. You're probably just another ticketless Evertonian and I very much doubt this guy will be really that arsed with you.
Franny Porter
33   Posted 21/05/2009 at 15:31:38

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I suggest turning up with loads of those plazzy twenty pound notes with the Yak’s head on you can get outside the ground.

Everyones a winner then I say.
Stewart Oakes
34   Posted 21/05/2009 at 16:14:22

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In light of all the articles on this site with reference to people making money out of tickets for the final, how can you carry an advert for Viagogo which sells tickets at above face value?

COYB

MIchael Kenrick
35   Posted 21/05/2009 at 20:52:41

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Stewart Oakes accuses ToffeeWeb of "double standards" regarding this thorny issue of reselling match tickets above face value.

As I understand the law, it is the act of reselling without permission which is illegal. Viagogo is one of the few entities that is actually permitted legally to resell tickets.

Is the price of resold tickets actually controlled? The FA make plenty of noise about touts but price elasticity and the laws of Supply and Demand are clearly a lot stronger then their mealy mouthed pontifications.

The real double standards here belong firstly to the FA, who create the situation (as discussed to death on these pages) and then by the fans themselves, who on the one hand bemoan paying inflated prices for tickets but then do exactly that because they believe it is the only way they can get to attend the game.

I’m not in any way blaming the fans as they really have no choice, other than to forego what is a unique experience unrivaled on the domestic calendar. If the FA wants to be so precious about touts, reselling, and price gouging, they must know it is they who need to do far far better.
jamie mcnally
36   Posted 21/05/2009 at 21:43:54

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Sorry,but he who dares wins..........isnt that right Rodders!!!
Tony Marks
37   Posted 21/05/2009 at 22:28:14

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In ?86 I went to Wembley without a ticket (drove a coach actually). As soon as I parked up, I was off and looking for tickets. "Any spares" ? that?s all you could hear. About 20 yds in front of me another Blue was doing the same, when this cockney walked up to him. The bloke said, "Yeh, I?ve got tickets, how many do you want?"

"How many have you got says the Blue?" and this soft get pulled out about 20. Cue mayhem, the Blue landed one staright on his beak and his minder started to move in, just as at least 20 scousers piled on top of him. The arsehole minder bricked it and was on his toes. When everyone legged it, a copper walked over shaking his head and calling the lad all the stupid barstewards under the sun. "You?ve got 30,000 scousers looking for tickets you stupid git, and you get a handful out!!" One fell into my lap from thin air, by the way!

Nick Entwistle
38   Posted 21/05/2009 at 23:06:33

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Bit off topic, but when Ticketmaster introduced pre-sale access for a charge, I was annoyed, especially as their booking fees are atrocious anyway. Now, they have their own partner site they refer you to that you can speak to or go online for with ?agency prices? and on top of that, have a set number of tickets for each event of an ebay style bidding set-up.

Now I?d never go to a concert out of principle if it is over £30 in total... and don?t get me started on how it was down to Madonna that any band can now charge £60 for a concert and think it's fair...

Karl Masters
39   Posted 21/05/2009 at 23:26:13

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As was pointed out yesterday don’t fall for the turd who has an advert on the Internet saying he is working in Northern Ireland, but has4 tickets and will DHL them to you for £200 each.

He makes himself believable by saying he wants to sell via E-BAY. And then the really sneaky bit is his Paypal is out of action so you have to pay by Western Union cash transfer and he will then send the tickets.

A fake e-mail from E-Bay is sent to you making it all seem real. But it’s a scam! It’s from somebody called Tim Donnelly in Manchester ( if that’s his real name ) and the money goes to him via Western Union and you’ll never see a ticket.

I thought it was too good to be true and it is. Luckily I didn’t go through with it, but it was clever enough to fool some people. I just hope no Evertonians have fallen for it.

I’m all for Kev Sparke’s solution as it goes. These people aren’t businessmen, they are thieves and scumbags and a good kicking is what they need. Just remember to wash your shoes after!
Paul Martin
40   Posted 22/05/2009 at 08:18:39

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Nobody likes touts, but its a simple case of supply and demand. What say if any of you were able to get tickets for last year's final Pompey V Cardiff and some Pompey die-hard was waving £1000 at you for a £60 ticket. How many would say, "No mate, ill only take face value coz I'm morally opposed to touts"? Not many...
Carl Jones
41   Posted 22/05/2009 at 12:00:46

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Would be cheaper if you just bought a season ticket and didn’t go the game.

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