I just wanted to make a very hyopthetical post to analyse how good the youngsters in our senior squad are. I've decided to analyse youngsters as players under 21. Which of these youngsters could be permanent fixtures making up the core of our first 11 over the next 5 years? This is just based on how I have seen them at present and the past. Here's my list: Rodwell, Fellaini, Gosling, Baxter and Vaughan.
So it could well be said that players who are in the current squad could, and probably will stay for 5 years, so that they might be in the team. There's also a possibility that some of the youngsters might leave too. But the thing is this is hypothetical and I believe those 5 players mentioned up there are good enough to make the first team constantly in 5 years time ? if they stay, that this.
Firstly, with Rodwell, he definitely has the most potential. I see him as centre-back because I see him being the next Rio Ferdinand and I think Moyes does too.
Secondly, Fellaini, second player with the most potential. I can see him getting the positional sense to play him in a centre midfield role, he has all the attributes to do it, just positional play and tackling needs to be sorted.
Thirdly, Gosling. I have been quite impressed with him, especially in his first appearances, but I don't see him as a winger. I think Moyes is doing a Wenger-Nasri tactic, which is blood them in the wing and eventually they'll be strong and fast enough to be in the middle. Somebody posted on here that Gosling could be a hard working central midfielder, and I completely agree.
Next, Baxter. I think this boy has undoubted potential. He looks class, very skillful, good shot, and I can see him causing problems just behind the front man, very similar to how Rooney plays, except maybe a tad more skillful, and a bit less physical. I'm obviously not saying he's gonna be as good as Rooney, but you get my point.
Finally, Vaughany. He has some critics but I, like many Evertonians, like him. He's very raw, but from what I've seen from him, he has pace, he's strong, he's good in the air, and at times is a decent finisher. Pretty good attributes for a good striker I think. Though now all I ever see him do is run like a headless chicken on the pitch. I think after a run of games either with us or on loan somewhere, he'll turn class. Just have to hope he doesn't get a serious injury again...
That's my opinion, and to sum up, it looks very bright. 5 potential first teamers in the next 5 years sounds good to me. And other players might even make it, possibly Coleman, Anichebe (though I doubt it) and this new German guy we jus bought, you never know!
This should be interesting....
Ben Jones, Posted 22/05/2009 at 13:03:40
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Interesting too that you wanted to put them in fixed positions within an 11-player line-up, yet it is now very much a squad game, and Moyes has surely demonstrated this is not how he thinks; he wants players who can play in many different positions, and he keeps moving them around accordingly, even during the match. So the idea of fixed players in fixed positions is bogus. (And aside from that, it's a pain from me to format!!!)
1 Posted 22/05/2009 at 17:23:38
Rodwell shows flashes but I would say Cadamarteri showed more at the same age and look where he is now! Let Rodwell develop at his own pace and if he makes even another Leon Osman, it will be a bonus. The gap between promising youngster and long term Premier League player is huge and we forget that sometimes when we are building up Rodwell or demonising Osman/Hibbert.
Gosling is like an eager young foal, lots of bounding around but little awareness or composure. (120th minute v Liverpool the exception of course!) He may turn into a decent performer though. Baxter is way too young to form an opinion about.
Fellaini.........? He has hardly impressed me at all and I think many Evertonians make excuses for him only because he plays for us. But... something tells me he is an unpolished diamond and may turn out to be something quite special, though I see evidence mainly to the contrary.
2 Posted 22/05/2009 at 17:34:49
3 Posted 22/05/2009 at 17:30:47
Rodwell as a centre-back? Very long term perhaps (or sooner in an emergency), but he haas the potential to become a cultured and powerful midfielder over the next couple of seasons. And wasn’t Dan the Goose acquired as a full-back?
The Moyes coaching machine marches on.
4 Posted 22/05/2009 at 17:52:06
Now look at us. 5th in the league, Cup Final on the horizon AND talking about the kids we wanted to assassinate !!
Fickle supporters - you bet
5 Posted 22/05/2009 at 17:53:38
6 Posted 22/05/2009 at 18:16:48
I love the fact we have some really promising youngsters coming through, I got quite excited after hearing about the signature of the highly regarded young german lad Mustafi. Ever the optimist I?m hoping the American lad Peterlin could be a late developer and force his way into the first team.
Wouldn?t it be fantastic, if in a year or two we could put out a side of Under-23s in the League Cup and have a real run. like Arsenal do?
The future's bright, the future's blue!
7 Posted 22/05/2009 at 19:18:07
8 Posted 22/05/2009 at 19:36:17
9 Posted 22/05/2009 at 19:37:33
10 Posted 22/05/2009 at 19:27:48
A guy I know spoke up at the same time I did and was asked NOT to contribute to the site as he was warning the doom and gloomers to take it easy. Spoke to him a couple of weeks ago, by the way he did as requested by Mr Kenrick and has remained silent, says he will hold his tongue and let his words speak for him.
Isn?t it great to say, "I told you so." Regardless to the result at Wembley, all you arseholes should hang your heads in shame.
11 Posted 22/05/2009 at 19:42:26
12 Posted 22/05/2009 at 19:25:58
To avoid the risk of MK brandishing another yellow card, for my "obnoxious arrogance" for stating facts, let me ask the following questions. If the rest of them have promise and Vic doesn?t.
Why Has he scored more goals for Everton than the rest of them?
Why has he also made more goals for Everton than the rest of them put together?
why has he played more times for his country?
This kid has taken dog's abuse on these pages, even when the article is supposedly positive like this, you wax lyrical about nearly of all of our youngsters (some of whom are ordinary and have already had their finest hour) yet there?s an underlying need to single him out. Why ?
If you don't rate him why mention him?
Something doesn't add up here.
13 Posted 22/05/2009 at 20:18:22
14 Posted 22/05/2009 at 20:57:30
15 Posted 22/05/2009 at 23:00:02
16 Posted 23/05/2009 at 02:05:12
Seen him 3 times for England U16?s and is a ?shoe-in? to make it. Just what we need as well, a ball playing/winning hard as nails scouser in the centre of the park -" remember the name "
Here a piece on the Echo on him from last September -
ROSS BARKLEY follows in the footsteps of young Everton stars Jack Rodwell and Jose Baxter when he makes his debut for England against Northern Ireland at Ballymena on Friday night.
Before graduating to the Everton first team squad, Rodwell and Baxter both played for England under-16s in the Victory Shield when they were both leading lights of the Academy.
Wavertree 14-year-old Barkley, who joined the Blues at 11 and now plays for the under-16s, said: ?I was absolutely made up to be picked. About 40 of us went for a final trial and it is a real honour.
?Everton have been absolutely fantastic and I would like thank my coach Sean Lundon and academy manager Ray Hall for all the help they have given to me. I actually found out I had got in from another coach, Paul Tait.?
Although he scored 31 goals for the Blues under-14s last season, two of the midfielder?s most memorable goals came at Anfield in front of Rafa Benitez.
Captaining school team Broadgreen in the Echo Cup final, he smashed home the strikes which help beat All Saints 3-1, receiving the man of the match award and the Echo Cup from the Liverpool boss.
Academy Manager Ray Hall said: ?Everyone at the club is delighted for Ross.
?It would be quite an achievement if he was named captain ? it would mean that we will have supplied the England Under-16 skipper for the last three seasons. Jose and Jack both did the job.
?He deserves this honour and it is great for both him and his family. His selection shows how hard everyone works at the Academy to develop young local talent.?
Broadgreen team manager Andy Cawley said: ?Both the kids and staff in school are delighted that Ross has been selected. He conducts himself well on and off the field. I think that Everton have been a good influence on him.?
17 Posted 23/05/2009 at 03:22:06
And Matt Bone... fair enough... it is a bit obvious, but many different people have different opinions regarding any one of those players... I just wanted to see the reaction and create a little light-hearted Evertonian debate, that?s all... I mean surely... that?s what these threads are about?
18 Posted 23/05/2009 at 03:25:45
19 Posted 23/05/2009 at 03:37:51
20 Posted 23/05/2009 at 04:32:32
Dave, your obnoxious arrogance was not related to stating facts but citing your opinions as definitive truth, because that was what you saw when you were at the game, and thinking that this granted you the ability to denigrate others on these pages who had a different perspective. These pages are for the exchange of opinions, not the exchange of abuse, and that is pretty much the only thing, Nick Lees and friend, that I ask people not to contribute.
And regarding those supposedly ?fickle? opinions, during the pathetic start to the season, when we were languishing in the bottom half of the table for 2½ months (lest you have forgotten), there were plenty who were quite correctly critical of pitful performances by the team and the manager that saw us unable to secure a home win until NOVEMBER!
Nick, if you are so smart that you could forsee the excellent improvement in form demanded at the time by me and my fickle followers (as if!), perhaps you could take time out to calculate exactly where we would be now if Moyes had knuckled down in the the close season and been doing his duty as Everton manager from Day One of the season, instead of having a crisis of confidence and looking for another job, before he gave up on that and finally resumed the wonderful journey of the last seven years.
We crap on collectively about breaking into the top four... well, if those lousy results you and your kin lambasted us for daring to criticise had been a bit more in line with what Moyes is supposed to be doing, we?d be there now. And that has been the story for much of the last seven years.
Moyes cannot do the business consistently for a full season. Going through a bad patch is what lets us down each and every time it seems. Yet his apologists refuse to countenance valid criticsm of his failings as and when they occur and instead bleat smugly about his limited achievements... after all, irrespective of the success that has even the hypercritical media swooning, he has still not won anything.
I sincerely hope that changes next weekend. For all of us.
21 Posted 23/05/2009 at 07:45:07
Could it be that while doing a job at RM (and s/times LM) Gosling is learning the attacking skills to be a RB in the Baines mold?
Just a thought
22 Posted 23/05/2009 at 05:51:51
You seem to be having difficulty telling the difference between peddling ignorance and opinion.
Example: Not long ago a guy penned an article telling us all why we should prioritise a certain competition next year, he gave us 6-7 reasons why, nearly all the reasons he gave were factually inaccurate, but his ability to string a few words together camouflaged his ignorance. Are you suggesting that such ignorance should go unchallenged in the interest of harmony? If that's the case then the yellow card you waved at me last week will be turning red soon enough.
I have ? as you may have noticed ? had enough of people spouting nonsensical stats about one of our young players, I believe these lies sometimes mask something a little more sinister than just not rating him. So I pick up the Gauntlet and despite being undecided about this kid myself, I bite every time.
There are certain things in this game that are fact; sure, how the team or an individual performs is always open to interpretation, a matter of opinion, but who scores the goals or who makes them is 99.9% of the time not open to debate ? Saha scored two last week, fact, but how did he play?
When I see a player create or score a goal with my own eyes I feel pretty comfortable presenting this as fact. And if somebody then disputes this fact with an "I don't remember it, so it didn't happen" argument, I get a little impatient.
Arrogance you calls it, superior knowledge I say.
23 Posted 23/05/2009 at 07:41:47
A recent quote from Mustafi (who by many is considered the best German defensive prospect) "Everton came to see me several times, and were very interested", that swayed his decision to join Everton. It is apparent from this, that we have quite an expansive scouting network, and we are very stealth in our targetting.
Also nobody mentioned Orenuga, the lad bought from Southend; he was supposed to be sensational for his age group, it will be interesting what our colleagues who watch the juniors think of this boy when he puts on the blue shirt for us in July.
Another great signing would be Smithies from Huddersfield, this goalkeeper is supposed to be one of Moyes's targets, the feedback on the websites is that this lad is one hell of a keeper in the making, and a future England cert.
Potentially, very exciting times ahead.
24 Posted 23/05/2009 at 09:46:12
I for one quite like Gosling, I think he has started off quite brightly and believe he deserves more time to progress. As for Baxter, it will be interesting to see how he progresses and let?s hope he is as good as we have been hearing.
As for this kid, Ross Barkley, I do hope the person who mentioned him is not blowing things out of the water and that he really is going to be a fabulous player. In terms of young players for Everton this must be the best days we have had in a few decades. But then again wasn?t Billy Kenny gonna be a great player and look where he turned out, so I suppose these things can bite you on the arse.
25 Posted 23/05/2009 at 11:27:28
So I think it?s you Dave who maybe need to review your facts. I have absolutely no problem with Anichebe, and you have to admit more people have slagged him off (during the supposed Moyes-Anichebe row for one) than I have. I do think he might make it, but in my opinion, he?s not as good as any of the younger ones mentioned in my post... that?s all.
26 Posted 23/05/2009 at 13:23:37
27 Posted 23/05/2009 at 12:51:40
Some fortunate changes wre forced on him and he has turned the season round. Now he is being fairly praised. It?s not being fickle, it?s being a realistic supporter. Blind devotion is not necessary.
28 Posted 23/05/2009 at 13:59:44
Rather than spend all this time ignorantly arguing about a subject you clearly know nothing about, go and spend 10 minutes watching Highlights of the Villa game. When you have seen for yourself that it was Vic who powered past 4 players to earn the penalty for the one of our goals, and that it was also Vic who crosses for Cahill to score, You?ll realise your argument is gone in just a single match. Then if you want to be educated further, come back and I?ll tell you the other matches to watch for Vics other assists this season ? there's actualy 5 not 4 ? I might even tell you about the free kicks he?s won that we have scored directly from too.
Hopefully we will then have established the difference between your what you think you know and facts I refer to.
29 Posted 23/05/2009 at 15:26:08
Rodwell ? absolute star. Future England and Everton captain. So composed, confortable on the ball, great passer. His biggest attribute though is his mentality. He can handle anything and plays like he is 25, not at teenager. His position is deffo centre-mid. Rio Ferdinand isn't a composed passer. Rodwell is more like Carrick than Ferdinand.
Baxter ? I've never seen him play.
Fellaini ? Overpriced target man. All this guy is capable of doing is scoring and winning headers. Yes, he has a big impact on our side... and yes, he scores goals... and yes, he is great in the air... but apart from that he has got nothing. He is worth £5mil not £15mil. Tim Cahill is miles better than him.
Personally, I'd like to see the class of Rodwell holding, the class of Arteta pulling the strings, and then Cahill being the one breaking into the box and causing mayhem.
Gosling ? absolute pile of shite. This guy is bollocks. He is crap, end of. He scores a few goals but apart from that he is useless (and what attacking winger doesn't score a few goals?). The guy is out of his depth and belongs in League 1. Just cos he scored the winner in the derby, everyone loves him... but remember Danny Cadamarteri???
30 Posted 23/05/2009 at 16:14:36
You mention Liverpool, presumably where he won a free-kick from which Cahill scored, but the kick was taken by Arteta. Or did you mean the Cup game a week later, when Anichebe won the corner from which Cahill scored, but it was Pienaar who took it?
Your rabid defence of any comments against Anichebe is becoming somewhat Pavlovian... except for the sinister overtone of moral superiority you are also injecting. I could be mistaken but it seems you?re bursting to play the race card, which would be sad. The overwhelming opinion is that Anichebe has not been all that good when he has played this season. Your endless reiteration of dubious "facts" are not going to change that.
31 Posted 23/05/2009 at 17:44:15
Fellaini: this guy will be a good player. Though he can be clumsy at times, his touch looks impressive. We will be singing his praises next year.
Baxter: I hope he comes good. He looks to have potential to be really good but we have yet to see it really for the first team, his goal against Forest apart. I hope he doesn't become an injury statistic and that we really bide our time with him to give him the optimum chance of making it.
Gosling: I have been quietly impressed with him. He scored a few goals. I seem to remember him scoring in the FA Cup against some team or another... I think he could become a dependable asset.
Vaughan: I hope to god his career isn't blighted by the constant injuries that have marked his early career because when fit and firing he can be a devastating natural striker. He is a handful.
Anichebe: has had his moments. I am careful not to get carried away with comments that he isn't a trier. He seems a bit like Heskey in that he can buldoze through players one game and then fall over a fairy cake in other games. He has had an impact on the wing and got quite a few assists considering the little gameplay he has had in that position. I think he is worth keeping.
We have not had as many good youngsters as this since the team that went on to achieve so much in the 80s. The future's no longer orange, it's blue! Roll on May 30... roll over Chelsea.
32 Posted 23/05/2009 at 19:02:34
As for waving a race card, WTF ? I defend Hibbert and Osman just as vigorously against lies and inaccurate stats and will defend Rodwell and Baines in exactly the same way ? because, trust me, it's coming their way ? At the start of the season I wrote an article about the way many people treat our local lads, of course it didnt changed anything, they?ve continued to take abuse all season and I cant help biting.
33 Posted 23/05/2009 at 21:55:32
82? Goal! West Ham United 1, Everton 1. Joleon Lescott (Everton) header from the centre of the box to the bottom left corner. Assisted by Louis Saha with a cross.
85? Goal! West Ham United 1, Everton 2. Louis Saha (Everton) right footed shot from the centre of the box to the bottom left corner. Assisted by Victor Anichebe with a cross.
87? Goal! West Ham United 1, Everton 3. Louis Saha (Everton) right footed shot from outside the box to the bottom right corner. Assisted by Tim Cahill.
I make that one assist to Anichebe... plus two in the Cup against Villa makes a total of 3. You need to find one or two more to prove that you yourself are not an unfortunate victim of "inaccurate stats".
34 Posted 24/05/2009 at 00:18:28
35 Posted 24/05/2009 at 02:07:24
And Michael, whatever arguments me and Dave have had, and whatever reasons Dave has for vigorously defending Anichebe... he isn?t waving a race card... I think you do know, as you help create this site, that this site has way more credibility than that.
36 Posted 24/05/2009 at 01:12:16
Also I don't know where the 5 assists come from this season. Why not just humour us and name the 5 of them?
Plus who has he scored more goals than? Fellaini got 9 goals and three assists in the Prem this season ? Anichebe hasn't got that in the Prem in three seasons.
PLUS Fellaini has 15 full international caps while Anichebe has only 4... yet you claim he has played more for his country than any of the players Ben listed.
Maybe you should check your own stats mate as you are starting to look a bit silly.
37 Posted 24/05/2009 at 04:55:13
I could never get my stats wrong, simply because I don?t use them, I hate them, they are misleading and inaccurate. I prefer to go by what I?ve seen, facts.
I told you about his chase back to win possession against West Ham leading to us scoring. I remembered the goal in Belgium and decided to add that to the four I?d already mentioned. He came off the bench and won us the corner, when the corner came in his threat panicked their hitherto calm goalkeeper into turning juggler for the Jag to score. Now these two goals along with the one against Villa - you know, when he beat 4 men to win a penalty - will have you stattos clutching at straws and claiming these assist were not conventional, unlike the crosses he put in for Saha and Cahill. They won't be in your record books, so according to you they didn't happen. But without his contribution ? his assist ? they couldn't/wouldn't have been scored.
You ask who has Vic scored more goals than. The answer is every one of the players mentioned in the article FACT
Your Stats tell you Fellaini has 9 prem goals, your your stats are wrong: That's another FACT.
Vic has got 10 goals for Everton, Fellaini has 9: FACT
Of the two Fellaini has had the most starts FACT... whose looking silly now?
I didn't say he had more caps than ALL of the above, I said he had more caps and he does have more caps than 5 of the six mentioned.
Anyway I?m done with Guinness book of record Stattos and their inaccuracies, I?m off to Fulham to accumulate even more knowledge.
38 Posted 24/05/2009 at 22:38:05
My stats are not wrong. Fellaini has 9 prem goals like i said, in one season. Vic has 6 in three seasons.
You said Vic had more interntiaonal caps. wrong again.
Anyway hope you enjoyed the win at Fulham!
39 Posted 25/05/2009 at 18:18:51
stop embarrassing yourself lad, Fellaini has 8 goals in the Prem thats a fact, his other was in the Cup. Vic had more international caps than six of the players, Fact. Stop embarrassing yourself again by claiming I compared his caps to Fellaini's, just scroll back and see you are wrong
I did however say Vic has scored more than ALL the others, that's another fact and you trying to exclude certain competitions can't change that.