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You don't need that much money.
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Barca's thrashing of Man Utd last night was a joy to watch. What a way to play football, and how I'd love Everton to play that way. This from a team that cost around £70m ? around £15m more than the Everton side.
So how do they do it? Youth system, that's how. There is no reason whatsoever for Everton's Youth system not to produce the likes of Iniesta, Messi and Xavi (all small players who would have been told in England that they were too small to make it ). All that's needed is the correct footballing philosophy and the will.
Roll on Saturday, this our year and I predict a 2-0 win.
COYBs.
Tommy Coleman, Posted 28/05/2009 at 08:41:52
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Michael Kenrick
Excellent observation, Tommy. I just can't see the likes of Alan Stubbs teaching them to pass the ball so crisply... As you say, it's the footballing philosophy that is worlds apart.
Ahh I can see it now, in ten years time someone will be saying "you don’t need the billions of Man City, when the likes of the European Champions Everton have a youth system that produces the likes of Rodwell and Baxter..."
Worlds apart and the fact that Barca were known as one of the biggest clubs in the world so Messi et all would want to go there, it?s a bit different when we are talking of a club in debt to the tune of how many million and have won nothing for over a decade.
It?s sounds good, get em young and we will prosper... but the youth players are still going to go to the Man Utds and Arsenals of this world, look at that young lad from Cardiff (forgot his name) said he would love to come to us and then shoots off to Arsenal.
If life was a simple as, "I?ll take that one please"
And Michael, Stubbs would be teaching then to tackle and their positional sense, I can hardly see him as a midfield coach can you?
It?s sounds good, get em young and we will prosper... but the youth players are still going to go to the Man Utds and Arsenals of this world, look at that young lad from Cardiff (forgot his name) said he would love to come to us and then shoots off to Arsenal.
If life was a simple as, "I?ll take that one please"
And Michael, Stubbs would be teaching then to tackle and their positional sense, I can hardly see him as a midfield coach can you?
Er....we had Rooney Young.
(well we DID!)
(well we DID!)
"but the youth players are still going to go to the Man Utds and Arsenals of this world..."
That may had been true, but it seems we have made some inroads into that area with signings like Shkodran Mustafi. His comments to me sounds like the club is really going all out to bring the young talents in.
That may had been true, but it seems we have made some inroads into that area with signings like Shkodran Mustafi. His comments to me sounds like the club is really going all out to bring the young talents in.
If you're good enough, you're tall enough.
You’ve said it, Tom: "the correct [I read this as necessary] footballing philosophy." Honestly, I don’t see how the English game is conducive to Barca’s style of play.
Keep in mind that they stick to it even if they are one, two, or three goals down. I can’t imagine how English fans would be happy with this. They would bay for blood; and the first thing that comes to their minds? "No commitment to the cause!"
Keep in mind that they stick to it even if they are one, two, or three goals down. I can’t imagine how English fans would be happy with this. They would bay for blood; and the first thing that comes to their minds? "No commitment to the cause!"
70 million to buy players who would not sign with us.
Even if they did sign with us ... Messi is paid £160,000 per week.
£160,000 per week.
£160,000 per week.
We cannot afford that. It’s not just the cost of buying players you have to consider. We need more money, much more money, to do what Barca do.
Even if they did sign with us ... Messi is paid £160,000 per week.
£160,000 per week.
£160,000 per week.
We cannot afford that. It’s not just the cost of buying players you have to consider. We need more money, much more money, to do what Barca do.
It will take 10 years of success before we are first choice for the majority of youth players to want to join us first.
Cáceres 16.5
Piqué 7.5
Márquez 5.0
Guðjohnsen 12.0
Eto’o 24.0
Henry 24.0
Keita 14.0
Milito 20.5
Alves 35.0
Hleb 14.0
Abidal 15.0
Touré 9.0
total: ?196m
Most of those players had additional amounts depending on games etc, so probably well over ?200m.
Piqué 7.5
Márquez 5.0
Guðjohnsen 12.0
Eto’o 24.0
Henry 24.0
Keita 14.0
Milito 20.5
Alves 35.0
Hleb 14.0
Abidal 15.0
Touré 9.0
total: ?196m
Most of those players had additional amounts depending on games etc, so probably well over ?200m.
With a wage bill of about 14m each month!
Over simplification at its most extreme. If it’s that easy, how come no club, never mind Everton, has gone out and done it.
Joe Barnes - You?ve missed the point, I?m talking about the starting 11 last night, they only cost around £50m (I?d accidently included Alves originally).
6 of the 11 had come through their youth system. If a club has a great youth policy kids will want to develop there, become Evertonians and want to win trophies with Everton.
6 of the 11 had come through their youth system. If a club has a great youth policy kids will want to develop there, become Evertonians and want to win trophies with Everton.
Brendan - I don’t honestly know. Brazil and Holland for example have acedamys where kids play 20 hours per week football while getting their education. In England they only play 5 hours per week with separate education.
My guess is they don’t want to risk investing money in kids that may offer no return, but when it does work out, as in Barca’s example, just think how much money has been saved.
My guess is they don’t want to risk investing money in kids that may offer no return, but when it does work out, as in Barca’s example, just think how much money has been saved.
Barca, without doubt a massively wealthy club who can spend accordingly, haven’t achieved their present success simply as a result of this - as Tommy is quite right to point out.
Moyes turned our fortunes round with a combination of a well-oganised defence and Marcus Bent running his socks off, but we have gradually become a passing team which the likes of Rodwell and Gosling can slot into. This is real progress and seems to be - let us hope at least - part of a grand plan.
Moyes turned our fortunes round with a combination of a well-oganised defence and Marcus Bent running his socks off, but we have gradually become a passing team which the likes of Rodwell and Gosling can slot into. This is real progress and seems to be - let us hope at least - part of a grand plan.
And the height thing -
Messi is 1.70m (about 5ft 7 in old money), the same as both Pienaar and Baines, the best left-side combination in the PL. Arteta is 1.75, Cahill 1.78m (about 5ft 10) and, again, we don’t hear too many complaints about their contributions. Leon Osman, at 1.73m, comes in for most criticism for being muscled off the ball, and I wonder if he could use more leg strength to overcome this.
I don’t know how the Academy works, but if you want to teach the kids how to pass the ball, shouldn’t people like Arteta be giving master classes?
Messi is 1.70m (about 5ft 7 in old money), the same as both Pienaar and Baines, the best left-side combination in the PL. Arteta is 1.75, Cahill 1.78m (about 5ft 10) and, again, we don’t hear too many complaints about their contributions. Leon Osman, at 1.73m, comes in for most criticism for being muscled off the ball, and I wonder if he could use more leg strength to overcome this.
I don’t know how the Academy works, but if you want to teach the kids how to pass the ball, shouldn’t people like Arteta be giving master classes?
Tommy Coleman: [[ Joe Barnes - You?ve missed the point, I?m talking about the starting 11 last night, they only cost around £50m (I?d accidently included Alves originally). ]]
Tommy, I’m afraid you’re missing the point. The team last night is irrelevant. They needed that expensive SQUAD to make the final in the first place. Without the depth provided by their hundreds of millions worth of players they would not in all likelihood have been able to compete on all fronts.
If the next Messi is in Argentina now, and we identify him at 12 years old playing for Newell, but Man U, RS, Barca, Real and Inter contact him as well, where will he sign?
To a degree it’s chicken and egg (you need the success to attract the young players; you need the young players to provide the success) but ultimately they have a staggering amount of money compared to us and that’s the difference. Yeah we can make a youth system a point of focus but so do they and they have a pedigree to attract young players and the money to pay them -- we don’t. Look at Ramsey -- Moyes was tracking him for a while but as soon as the Gunners call he’s gone. We knew he was good but what can you do?
Their SQUAD is hundreds of millions and their wage bill is likely far more than we can afford.
Tommy, I’m afraid you’re missing the point. The team last night is irrelevant. They needed that expensive SQUAD to make the final in the first place. Without the depth provided by their hundreds of millions worth of players they would not in all likelihood have been able to compete on all fronts.
If the next Messi is in Argentina now, and we identify him at 12 years old playing for Newell, but Man U, RS, Barca, Real and Inter contact him as well, where will he sign?
To a degree it’s chicken and egg (you need the success to attract the young players; you need the young players to provide the success) but ultimately they have a staggering amount of money compared to us and that’s the difference. Yeah we can make a youth system a point of focus but so do they and they have a pedigree to attract young players and the money to pay them -- we don’t. Look at Ramsey -- Moyes was tracking him for a while but as soon as the Gunners call he’s gone. We knew he was good but what can you do?
Their SQUAD is hundreds of millions and their wage bill is likely far more than we can afford.
I agree with Brendan, this is over simplification, and to be honest I’m getting a little tired of the Barca love-in.
They currently have a great team. Probably the best exponents of the artistry in football. Keep the ball well and have vastly improved without the ball under Pep Guardiola. However, they haven’t always had this dominance and everyone cannot aspire to play that way as there simply aren’t enough players with the quality to really make it work consistently.
I couldn’t have really cared less about who won last night, but I do believe that Scumchester are capable of beating Barca, they just didn’t turn up.
I don’t like the mantra "We play the game the way it’s supposed to be played". What a load of bull crap. Granted, they are usually entertaining and score a lot of goals but nobody deserves to win a game unless they score more goals than the other team, as per the rules of the game.
Trying to say that Barca have done this on the cheap is utter bollocks IMO. Others have stated above about wages and indeed exactly what they have spent on the team. I agree that they are a good model in many ways for how to develop youth, but the idea that everyone can play that way and have the same club structure is ridiculous.
We’re not doing so bad with the "Everton Way" so I’m not looking to copy anyone. Let’s give the Barca jizz fest a rest and concentrate on Saturday.
COYB!!!
They currently have a great team. Probably the best exponents of the artistry in football. Keep the ball well and have vastly improved without the ball under Pep Guardiola. However, they haven’t always had this dominance and everyone cannot aspire to play that way as there simply aren’t enough players with the quality to really make it work consistently.
I couldn’t have really cared less about who won last night, but I do believe that Scumchester are capable of beating Barca, they just didn’t turn up.
I don’t like the mantra "We play the game the way it’s supposed to be played". What a load of bull crap. Granted, they are usually entertaining and score a lot of goals but nobody deserves to win a game unless they score more goals than the other team, as per the rules of the game.
Trying to say that Barca have done this on the cheap is utter bollocks IMO. Others have stated above about wages and indeed exactly what they have spent on the team. I agree that they are a good model in many ways for how to develop youth, but the idea that everyone can play that way and have the same club structure is ridiculous.
We’re not doing so bad with the "Everton Way" so I’m not looking to copy anyone. Let’s give the Barca jizz fest a rest and concentrate on Saturday.
COYB!!!
You know something, Everton would have beaten Barcelona last night. We?d have defended deep with two lines of four. Barcelona, as huge favourites, would have been frustrated and had a man sent off. They?d have hit the woodwork several times and Tim Howard would have had the game of his life. In injury time, Phil Neville would have scored a header from a Gosling corner.
Who says the drugs don?t work? We will win the FA Cup, though, of that I am certain.
Who says the drugs don?t work? We will win the FA Cup, though, of that I am certain.
I was in Spain recently and went to a match, it was strange to listen to the crowds reaction to the game. The thing that most infuriated them was losing possession, whether by a poor pass or a long punt upfield that lost the ball.
In this country, we cheer an attack or a crunching tackle and long punts are accepted as part of our game, our football is more exiting, it?s faster and there are more talking points, but technically we are way behind.
I played in a 5-a-side match years ago and this young lad was brilliant but slight of build; I asked him why he wasn?t playing professionally. He said Leeds had let him go because basically he got kicked off the ball and wasn?t considered strong enough...0 shame he might have been a Messi or a Xavi in the making. I bet if he was Spanish he would be a professional.
I wonder if Barca could play like that at Hull or Stoke on a freezing cold mid week match in December.
I used to watch the kids at Everton and L’pool when I lived in L’pool and I thought they was excellent... until I went to see the kids at Barca a few years ago, worlds apart even at 7 years old.
Really, you have to go and see it for yourself, the kids are very unbelievable, not just in touch and technique but in strength, awareness and determination too.
We need the very best coaches with the youth to truly compete in the future.
Just to go of track, did we really sign Pienaar for £2m? I’m still dreaming I think, I’ll pinch myself after the final :)
Really, you have to go and see it for yourself, the kids are very unbelievable, not just in touch and technique but in strength, awareness and determination too.
We need the very best coaches with the youth to truly compete in the future.
Just to go of track, did we really sign Pienaar for £2m? I’m still dreaming I think, I’ll pinch myself after the final :)
Did anyone read that cringeworthy interview with Kenwright about the youth players? I read it on teamtalk. He heaps praise on Baxter and how he scored at Forest for the reserves in pre-season and described the weather as terrible.
He obviously didn’t go because it was a lovely summer’s evening and it was a first team fixture not the reserves. I also ended up sat near the director’s box with my Forest supporting father-in-law and there was no sign of Bullshit Bill.
Anyway the future’s bright but not because Kenwright says it is.
He obviously didn’t go because it was a lovely summer’s evening and it was a first team fixture not the reserves. I also ended up sat near the director’s box with my Forest supporting father-in-law and there was no sign of Bullshit Bill.
Anyway the future’s bright but not because Kenwright says it is.
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