The Mail Bag
Europa league play-off
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Everton now find themselves in the play off stage of the Europa league, the same qualifying stage as Aston Villa, having finished above them and having reached a major cup final. This round will include 76 other teams some very good ones but most of which even Wikipedia would not have heard of, we will then progress to the group stages with 48 teams, and then to the knock out stage with 32 teams.
It seems a bit unjust that Aston Villa will be on the same level as us, and in actual fact there far too many teams in the comp, and it's far to long. It will also be difficult for DM to get funding for the size of squad required, on the basis we could progress or be knocked out in the play-off round, which would leave about a week left in the transfer market. I hope We get through just for the midweek games, but the revenue that came to Villa last year was not great. Over to you, Mr Kenwright.
Will Brown, Posted 03/06/2009 at 08:47:47
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I thought Villa have to play an extra quali game than us? Has that changed? As for fixtures, simply opt out of the FA Cup next year, no point reaching the semi or final given the ticket allocations!!
Based on past europe draws, the projections are as follows. Villa will play the Andorran Fireman’s five-a-side select XI and Everton will play Athletico Madrid. After much acrimony following the inevitable round one defeat, we’ll do better in the league as a result of spilling the Europa/uefa cup poison chalice all over our brand new kit. Fulham will be semi-finalists.
:D
:D
I doubt whether you will hear anything off Kenwright for quite a while, Will, now the Cup Final is over.
Derek Turnbull, did you get my E-Mails?
Derek Turnbull, did you get my E-Mails?
If you check out the Europa League format on UEFA site you’ll see that we do come in on the Play-Off round - the one before the league as 5th Placed in our Association. Villa as 6th Placed cone in the round before so have to play an additional round (if they can be bothered turning up that is!). Shouldn’t always believe what’s in Wikipedia. Only 17 games to win it!
My understanding of it is that, of the three places available to English clubs, the ’FA cup’ place and the ’5th placed finish’ place are both equal (i.e. both allow straight entry into the playoffs). The other entrant (the league cup winner) must play an extra qualifying game.
As we earned 2 places (5th place and the FA cup runner up), this means that the other, ’equal’ place is passed down into 6th. This is why Villa qualify at the same stage.
Meanwhile, Fulham have to play an extra game as they take the ’league cup slot’ which has been passed down to 7th due to the better scenarios of the top 6 teams.
As we earned 2 places (5th place and the FA cup runner up), this means that the other, ’equal’ place is passed down into 6th. This is why Villa qualify at the same stage.
Meanwhile, Fulham have to play an extra game as they take the ’league cup slot’ which has been passed down to 7th due to the better scenarios of the top 6 teams.
The sooner we go out, the better. There is no point staying in it because the financial side is a joke. Players hate it, managers hate it, and fans don't even know what it is.
Take this season's Uefa Cup final in Instanbul. Shatawotsit took 5,000 fans and Werder thingy took 7,000 fans... the gate was 50.000 as Uefa gave the rest of the tickets to locals on a freebie. Just about sums up this competion for me.
The longer we are in, the lower we will finish in the Prem that's for sure so I say a couple of nice away trips for the fans then thank you very much but no thanks.
Take this season's Uefa Cup final in Instanbul. Shatawotsit took 5,000 fans and Werder thingy took 7,000 fans... the gate was 50.000 as Uefa gave the rest of the tickets to locals on a freebie. Just about sums up this competion for me.
The longer we are in, the lower we will finish in the Prem that's for sure so I say a couple of nice away trips for the fans then thank you very much but no thanks.
Further to my above comment, I wanted to emphasise that Everton and Villa would have both qualified for the playoffs even if they’d finished 5th and us 6th or 7th (us for the cup, them for the league).
As it is, they benefit from us being more successful than them!
As it is, they benefit from us being more successful than them!
There is still the possibility that we may by-pass the Play-Off round and go straight into the League. This is because there is an automatic place for Shaktar (as they won it) but they have qualified for the CL. UEFA may still decide to add in another team to take their place, and if they do, we would go straight into the Group Stages. This is all according to Wiki.
Well done Paul Turton for introducing the facts into a tedious thread. One would think the author might have checked before he launched this one. Villa do indeed start 3 weeks & 1 round before us.
As for managers and players hating it, erm, sorry but Appy Arry and MON do not manage Everton & I don’t give a toss what they think about anything. Managers with vision and ambition such as Moyes and Hughes do not indulge in such ridiculous cherry picking at the expense of challenging for an important European trophy.
As for the longer we are in the worse our league performance will be. Hmm. The evidence is to the contrary, so this, Tony, is subjective speculation & nothing more. In 1985 we almost won 3 trophies using about 15 players. In 2007 our UEFA performances help sustain our league performances and, interestingly, it was only after losing in the UEFA QF that our league performances suffered.
You will find both management and players at EFC embracing the Europa just as they did the UEFA. We are in it to win it and that is how it should be.
The only trophy that should be down-played is the Carling cup. It is an anomalous throwback to the ’60’s to give smaller clubs a chance of Wembley. if you win it you qualify for the qualifying stages of the Europa. We should play our youth & fringe players in this to give them valuable match practice. That is its only value.
It’s League, Europa & FAC, in that order. I believe DM shares that approach. Next season’s final is in the Hamburg Arena. Should we make it then you will find rather more than 5,000 making the trip to our twin city to see the boys. I will be one of them.
As for managers and players hating it, erm, sorry but Appy Arry and MON do not manage Everton & I don’t give a toss what they think about anything. Managers with vision and ambition such as Moyes and Hughes do not indulge in such ridiculous cherry picking at the expense of challenging for an important European trophy.
As for the longer we are in the worse our league performance will be. Hmm. The evidence is to the contrary, so this, Tony, is subjective speculation & nothing more. In 1985 we almost won 3 trophies using about 15 players. In 2007 our UEFA performances help sustain our league performances and, interestingly, it was only after losing in the UEFA QF that our league performances suffered.
You will find both management and players at EFC embracing the Europa just as they did the UEFA. We are in it to win it and that is how it should be.
The only trophy that should be down-played is the Carling cup. It is an anomalous throwback to the ’60’s to give smaller clubs a chance of Wembley. if you win it you qualify for the qualifying stages of the Europa. We should play our youth & fringe players in this to give them valuable match practice. That is its only value.
It’s League, Europa & FAC, in that order. I believe DM shares that approach. Next season’s final is in the Hamburg Arena. Should we make it then you will find rather more than 5,000 making the trip to our twin city to see the boys. I will be one of them.
Alan Kirwin the games moved on i n 25 years mate.No doubt those 15 players you mention did so well eating Steak and drinking Lager as well.To compare 1985 Everton side with the top sides of today is totally ridiculous.
Andy Gray and Riedy played the whole season one legged and Pat Van Den Hauwe was a pisshead.Do you reckon anyone would get away with that in this day and age?
Andy Gray and Riedy played the whole season one legged and Pat Van Den Hauwe was a pisshead.Do you reckon anyone would get away with that in this day and age?
My interpretation of the qualifications actually support the author here meaning I think Paul Turton and Alan Kirwan are both wrong.
http://www.uefa.com/competitions/uefacup/news/kind=2097152/newsid=788326.html
They are wrong because Villa have not taken the ’N6’ place despite finishing 6th. They have taken the ’N5’ place and we have the ’CW’ place. As this link shows, CW and N5 enter at the same stage (PO).
http://www.uefa.com/competitions/uefacup/news/kind=2097152/newsid=788326.html
They are wrong because Villa have not taken the ’N6’ place despite finishing 6th. They have taken the ’N5’ place and we have the ’CW’ place. As this link shows, CW and N5 enter at the same stage (PO).
Alan
Agree with eveything you say apart from the bit about Aston Villa. They’re starting in the same round as us and Fulham are starting earlier.
Sixth place only starts in the previous round if the FA Cup winners had come from outside the top 6.
See you in Hamburg hopefully!
Agree with eveything you say apart from the bit about Aston Villa. They’re starting in the same round as us and Fulham are starting earlier.
Sixth place only starts in the previous round if the FA Cup winners had come from outside the top 6.
See you in Hamburg hopefully!
The 5th place finish has more merits than just our place in the Europa League.
The extra cash (£1m for each higher place) is not to be sniffed at. And, according to the League positions, we are closer to the top 4 than Villa, Spurs or any of the other pretenders. Its not a bad argument if you are trying to convince a high quality player to join the club versus the any counter-offers from ’appy ’arry or Mad Martin.
The extra cash (£1m for each higher place) is not to be sniffed at. And, according to the League positions, we are closer to the top 4 than Villa, Spurs or any of the other pretenders. Its not a bad argument if you are trying to convince a high quality player to join the club versus the any counter-offers from ’appy ’arry or Mad Martin.
FAO Colin Potter: no here’s my email address again in case it went to a bemused chap of the same name! derek.turnbull@emailaccount.com (nb full stop between first and last name!)
Tony are you comparing us to Shoddywerst and Weird Lineup? I can guarrantee you that if we were to get into the final we would easily sell our allocation, we would probably buy all the tickets given the chance.
However as already said, Villa and Fulham will face some Siberian Farmers whilst we get Villarreal again so it will all be pointless anyway
However as already said, Villa and Fulham will face some Siberian Farmers whilst we get Villarreal again so it will all be pointless anyway
O yea all of little faith! So It’s Champions league or nothing is it?Until we can beat the top 4 teams then what hope do we have in the Champions League when most other leagues have their top 4 teams in also. With what we have and no real prospect of some big money investment we may be best to settle for Europa and use it as a learning curve for when we do get into Champions league.
And we have 5 officials
http://www.uefa.com/uefa/keytopics/kind=524288/newsid=835399.html
http://www.uefa.com/uefa/keytopics/kind=524288/newsid=835399.html
http://www.xs4all.nl/~kassiesa/bert/uefa/seedel2009.html
This is the guy with all the knowledge, even to the extent that UEFA.com directs you to his site.
We and Villa come in the last knockout round before the group stages. There is NO direct into the group stages. Fulham come in the round before. At the moment we are 14th seeds - but given that last year we were 13th seeds and ended up with Standard Leige, then that means nothing!
Aiden is right, Fulham and Villa will play some team of no-hopers, and we get the best team in Europe who are in the unseeded teams.
It is the pain for being Everton
This is the guy with all the knowledge, even to the extent that UEFA.com directs you to his site.
We and Villa come in the last knockout round before the group stages. There is NO direct into the group stages. Fulham come in the round before. At the moment we are 14th seeds - but given that last year we were 13th seeds and ended up with Standard Leige, then that means nothing!
Aiden is right, Fulham and Villa will play some team of no-hopers, and we get the best team in Europe who are in the unseeded teams.
It is the pain for being Everton
Derek Turnbull,
Sorry about the mix up, I forgot the full stop. Let me know if it arrives...
Sorry about the mix up, I forgot the full stop. Let me know if it arrives...
Thanks Phil, there is no direct entry into the Europa league, which is what I said in my post, but will Kenwright release a Transfer kitty when we could be killed off after 1 game, it would leave about a week before August Transfer deadline to accumulate the extra squad players, assuming the deadline is Monday 31st of Aug, Everton love the last min deadline stuff as we already know, and guess what that day is a bank holiday, so Mr Kenwright could be uncontactable in his caravan in Skegness.
Does this really matter?
As has already been pointed out, we have to win many matches to win the actual tournament. Debating over where its 15 or 16, 16 or 17, is like debating which flea to remove off your dog first.
I know its the closed season and we’re all bored already - but there’s plenty of ridiculous transfer speculation to ease your troubled minds...
As has already been pointed out, we have to win many matches to win the actual tournament. Debating over where its 15 or 16, 16 or 17, is like debating which flea to remove off your dog first.
I know its the closed season and we’re all bored already - but there’s plenty of ridiculous transfer speculation to ease your troubled minds...
"For me, I really want to play European football. As players we really want to play in Europe and its an opportunity for us," he said.
"We have to work so hard. It would be a really good feeling for me to be back in training, playing in Europe and the league."
That’s a quote from the Yak. Top players don’t just want to grind out high league places each season, they want European football and the chance to win a trophy.
"We have to work so hard. It would be a really good feeling for me to be back in training, playing in Europe and the league."
That’s a quote from the Yak. Top players don’t just want to grind out high league places each season, they want European football and the chance to win a trophy.
Who gives a shit about Villa? What’s the problem with them going in at the same round as us? Who cares?
Moyes used the Uefa cup as a good way of playing the youngsters last time. Anichebe got a lot of vital playing time. It’s worth entering it and trying to win and if we have other priorities during the season we bin it. I do think there’s a point to competing in it because we hit top form when we’re competing in a cup.
Moyes used the Uefa cup as a good way of playing the youngsters last time. Anichebe got a lot of vital playing time. It’s worth entering it and trying to win and if we have other priorities during the season we bin it. I do think there’s a point to competing in it because we hit top form when we’re competing in a cup.
Here Tony, the players don’t hate it,
Sure the Yak says he loves it.
Sure the Yak says he loves it.
to be honest id rather we play villareal or athletico over the siberian farmers of andorras firefighters 5 a side team select XI (I loved that!!) because we always play better when playing quality teams. Its dam good experience and will boost morale if we beat these teams for the league.
There’s some decent teams in the Europa League: Ajax, PSV, Lazio, AS Roma, Valencia, Galatasaray, Rapid Wien.
You cant tell me these teams arent worth playing....
You cant tell me these teams arent worth playing....
Yes, it is one hell of a long haul to win this trophy and some fans may think it is a waste of our resources to give our best in the competition.
I still reckon it will be very difficult to get a ticket for the away games and those fans that are denigrating the competition now will be first in the queue to get a ticket or sqawking the loudest if they don?t get one. I?m up for it and would rather us play 17 games or so to win than the relatively few to win the Carling Cup.
Everton players have gone on record stating that they thought we played better in the league when we had our Uefa Cup run and they really missed it this season after losing to Standard Liege. COYB
I still reckon it will be very difficult to get a ticket for the away games and those fans that are denigrating the competition now will be first in the queue to get a ticket or sqawking the loudest if they don?t get one. I?m up for it and would rather us play 17 games or so to win than the relatively few to win the Carling Cup.
Everton players have gone on record stating that they thought we played better in the league when we had our Uefa Cup run and they really missed it this season after losing to Standard Liege. COYB
It is also noticeable that after we made it to 4th and drew the eventual semi-finalists in the pre-qualifyer and lost - the players were mentally gutted and it took us until Christmas to get off the bottom of the table.
Then we scraped through against a "bunch of no-hopers", won all 5 games in the qualifier and were storming in 4th until a penalty shoot out knocked us out and we finished 5th.
Then we ended up playing in the qualifiers a team who lost in the 118th minute (as opposed to us who won in the 118th minute) to a CL QF team and again we struggled to impose ourselves on the league for a number of months.
Conclusion - we love playing in Europe, but we do seem to suffer a lot when we get knocked out.
Then we scraped through against a "bunch of no-hopers", won all 5 games in the qualifier and were storming in 4th until a penalty shoot out knocked us out and we finished 5th.
Then we ended up playing in the qualifiers a team who lost in the 118th minute (as opposed to us who won in the 118th minute) to a CL QF team and again we struggled to impose ourselves on the league for a number of months.
Conclusion - we love playing in Europe, but we do seem to suffer a lot when we get knocked out.
5th Spot in the League is a spot for the qualifying round of the Europa League.
England?s other 2 spots are for the 2nd qualifying round and awarded based on the winners of the Carling Cup and the FA Cup.
Becauase Man Utd won the Carling Cup, that spot goes to 6th place finishers in the league (Aston Villa) as Man Utd are already in the Champs League.
Because Chelsea won the FA Cup, that spot goes to the 7th place finishers in the league (Fulham) because Chelsea are already in the Champs League.
Cup runners-up do not get the European spot, it goes to the league.
So Everton qualified via the league 5th place spot... nothing to do with runners-up in cups...
I for one hope they take this competition seriously as it builds up our co-efficient for when we eventually break into that top4 and start qualifying for the Champions League..
England?s other 2 spots are for the 2nd qualifying round and awarded based on the winners of the Carling Cup and the FA Cup.
Becauase Man Utd won the Carling Cup, that spot goes to 6th place finishers in the league (Aston Villa) as Man Utd are already in the Champs League.
Because Chelsea won the FA Cup, that spot goes to the 7th place finishers in the league (Fulham) because Chelsea are already in the Champs League.
Cup runners-up do not get the European spot, it goes to the league.
So Everton qualified via the league 5th place spot... nothing to do with runners-up in cups...
I for one hope they take this competition seriously as it builds up our co-efficient for when we eventually break into that top4 and start qualifying for the Champions League..
As stated far above, it’s UEFA’s fault.
When they started letting 3rd & 4th place jokers into what is supposedly the ’Champion’s League’; then did away with the CWC, swamping the UEFA Cup; then made it a ridiculous format; and even then allow Champions League teams who’ve been knocked out, to get another bite at the cherry.
Then the media start dissing it, and it doesn’t generate as much money as the £10 mil a year for qualifying Champs League.
I for one remember the 80s and the old European formats, and it was about prestige back then, money isn’t the be-all-and-end-all, but UEFA have done their best to make it that way.
They’ve created a vicious circle, particularly in the Premier League, and Platini and his cronies will do nowt to change it.
When they started letting 3rd & 4th place jokers into what is supposedly the ’Champion’s League’; then did away with the CWC, swamping the UEFA Cup; then made it a ridiculous format; and even then allow Champions League teams who’ve been knocked out, to get another bite at the cherry.
Then the media start dissing it, and it doesn’t generate as much money as the £10 mil a year for qualifying Champs League.
I for one remember the 80s and the old European formats, and it was about prestige back then, money isn’t the be-all-and-end-all, but UEFA have done their best to make it that way.
They’ve created a vicious circle, particularly in the Premier League, and Platini and his cronies will do nowt to change it.
I agree with Tony Marsh. Let’s not play any football at all next year and this way we are guaranteed 6th place based on the alphabet. We also minimise the risk of incurring any injuries and won’t get knocked out of any cups.
Those fools who actually like watching football and testing our team against teams we don’t usually play can just do one.
Those fools who actually like watching football and testing our team against teams we don’t usually play can just do one.
Nice one Joe that made me laugh, couldnt have put it better myself. I just can’t bring myself to read anymore of Tony ’told you so’s comments they’re so full of negativity and hindsight.
No point entering a competition unless we want to win it. Why spend all year fighting for a European place to then throw it away without a second thought. If Everton get to the Europa Cup Final there?ll be more than 30,000 Blues in Hamburg. We at least will take it seriously.
In his otherwise excellent post above, Neal makes the familiar complaint (on here at least) that Champions League ’failures’ should not be given a second chance.
This is reasonable on the face of it but imagine the situation where Everton achieved 4th place next season and then lost a very difficult game (as it is bound to be) in the qualifying round.
Under the present system our consolation would be direct entry into the group stages of the Europa League and I would say that is fair. Why should teams who finished below us in the League be able to look forward to a season of European football when we would be left with nothing?
Of course I would prefer it if we won the qualifying match but I can see why the safety net of the Europa League is there. It’s not a second bite at the same cherry.
This is reasonable on the face of it but imagine the situation where Everton achieved 4th place next season and then lost a very difficult game (as it is bound to be) in the qualifying round.
Under the present system our consolation would be direct entry into the group stages of the Europa League and I would say that is fair. Why should teams who finished below us in the League be able to look forward to a season of European football when we would be left with nothing?
Of course I would prefer it if we won the qualifying match but I can see why the safety net of the Europa League is there. It’s not a second bite at the same cherry.
I?m guessing all the anti-Europe fans didn?t want us to be in the Cup Winners Cup in 84-85 then?
As the last couple of seasons have proved, winning games and staying in tournaments will galvanise your league performance ? look at our downturn in form following Fiorentina/Liege, upturn with the FA Cup run, and similar situations for other clubs (Villa)
Joe ? hilarious!! But we?d actually finish 8th (2 promoted clubs start with ?B?).
As the last couple of seasons have proved, winning games and staying in tournaments will galvanise your league performance ? look at our downturn in form following Fiorentina/Liege, upturn with the FA Cup run, and similar situations for other clubs (Villa)
Joe ? hilarious!! But we?d actually finish 8th (2 promoted clubs start with ?B?).
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1 Posted 03/06/2009 at 15:03:23
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The idea though is that the second tier of teams in the Eurpoa League/UEFA Cup do not catch the teams in the Champions League as they want all the money to themselves.
So don’t come on here slating the Europa League, it’s the Champions Lerague that’s the problem.