The Mail Bag
Players' Valuations
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I am not advocating that we sell our best players ? in fact, I do not want to sell any of our squad, being the size it is at the moment. However, I do not understand how media gossip on players' valuations are so different when it is for our players. Let me give you some examples.
Today Valencia may move for £16M+ and F Campbell from Man Utd for £6M. while the rumours have Lescott going to Man City for £12M, Arteta to Arsenal for £12M...
How is it clubs seem to get top dollar for players except Everton? It is a joke how little the media or in fact the buying clubs think our players are worth!
Rob Lyons, Posted 07/06/2009 at 11:39:39
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The sales of Johnson and McFadden were daylight robbery, £18m for those two was a great deal.
We didn?t get good money for Wayne Rooney ? the £10M up-front, £10M 12 months later, and £7M depending on trophies won etc...
It’s all media speculation. Until a deal is done, don’t believe it anyway.
As much as I enjoy reading all the "gossip" I don?t believe a single word of it until it?s "true"!
As to Lescott... that all depends which piece of garbage you read... one report states £18m which is a bit better but to be honest I will be absolutely gutted if he leaves! I don?t care how much we get for him (and Micah Richards as a swap... you kidding me??)!
And whilst we?re on the subject.... can I say that the one rumour (yes, I know... a rumour only!) is Nistlerooy from Real Madrid for £1.25m?? Yes please! (And not Owen!)
Lescott should not be sold for anything less than 25 mil it is not as simple as take 18 mil and buy two players for 9 mil. That money may not go sraight back into the transfer kitty and it could give a message to the rest of the squad that we are not as ambitious and determined as they thought and at worst it could spark an exodus of alot of our better players to richer clubs ie spurs and city and ruin our image as the best placed club to break the top 4 (to us anyway) so only sell Lescott for 25 mil+ or the effects could be disastrous
Please let that Van Nistlerooy rumour be true!! £1.25 mil is an absolute steal for him!
I must admit that those figures are way lower than I have heard. Arteta for £12m was last summer, before he switched positions and probably went up in value by another £8m. I wouldn?t even sell him for £20m, though.
I heard £20m for for Lescott but I would not be surprised if we were offered Jo + Richards for Lescott. I wouldn?t accept this either, unless they added the £20m as well!
I am not sure I would take Van Nistelrooy. I like Owen and he is younger, cheaper and understands the club a lot better than Van Nistelrooy.
I heard £20m for for Lescott but I would not be surprised if we were offered Jo + Richards for Lescott. I wouldn?t accept this either, unless they added the £20m as well!
I am not sure I would take Van Nistelrooy. I like Owen and he is younger, cheaper and understands the club a lot better than Van Nistelrooy.
I do think City got a good deal getting Barry for £12million even though he only had 1 year on his contract.
To be honest, the people involved with the transfers out derserve a fooking knighthood or should be done for daylight robbery. A few names spring to mind:
Marcus Bent, bought for less than half a million, sold after a season of titty lipping for £2.5m.
AJ, bought for £8.6m sold for over £10m
And whoever dealt with the Fadds deal needs to get himself a cell next to Ronnie Biggs.
Marcus Bent, bought for less than half a million, sold after a season of titty lipping for £2.5m.
AJ, bought for £8.6m sold for over £10m
And whoever dealt with the Fadds deal needs to get himself a cell next to Ronnie Biggs.
Alasdair, Owen is more interested in breeding racehorses that he is in football these days. A move to Everton would be a dream for him as it's only an hour's drive to his home and stables.
As for wages, well if Owen loved football as much as he says he does, he would play for his boyhood team for a nominal salary. I reckon it would feel so good for Michael to give something back to the game after the untold wealth it has brought him.
I mean he doesnt' need to bleed another football club dry while he lies on the physios bed does he?
As for wages, well if Owen loved football as much as he says he does, he would play for his boyhood team for a nominal salary. I reckon it would feel so good for Michael to give something back to the game after the untold wealth it has brought him.
I mean he doesnt' need to bleed another football club dry while he lies on the physios bed does he?
I would only take Owen on a low basic wage contract with a pay as you play deal built in. I think Owen has a point to prove and with the world cup around the corner I am sure he will be itching to get back to in the England squad, but could we afford another injury prone striker with Saha and Vaughan?
Everyone has a price. imagine if you where offered £5k for your car and you knew you could get another one just the same for £4k or a better one for the £5k. You’d sell it. So if Moyes reckons £ X for Lescott is a good deal then he will let him go, if he doesn’t then he wont. As for getting decent prices for players Johnson, Mcfadden , Jeffers !!!
I wouldn’t want to sell Lescott BUT if we can improve the whole of the team with the money then so be it , i can think of other players i’d rather keep than him, Jags for one
I wouldn’t want to sell Lescott BUT if we can improve the whole of the team with the money then so be it , i can think of other players i’d rather keep than him, Jags for one
Guys,
please stop bandying around figures of £20 million+ for any of our players.
Its embarassing, and I’m cringing. None of our players are worth £20+ million.
Please, look at the markets and what are paid for players, and particularly from non-top-4 clubs/european teams.
The reason for this is that top 4 clubs have to pay a shed load for players from other top european clubs because they cant rely on their gravitas of the player simply desperate to play for them, and top clubs dont want to sell. In addition, the top european players have pedigree, and experience of CL football which adds an enormous amount.
In our case, if a top 4 club want someone like arteta or lesscott, the players will say yes please and the deal will easily be done for 10-15 million, tops, as the players will force the issue. Please. Its not rocket science...
A good example is that vidic is apparently about to be bid for, for 18-20 million. You cannot seriously tell me that lescott is in the same league or has the same gravitas.
Arteta cant even get in to the spanish squad, so he isnt an international.
We’ve got good players. We dont have top-end international players who are worth £20+ million...
please stop bandying around figures of £20 million+ for any of our players.
Its embarassing, and I’m cringing. None of our players are worth £20+ million.
Please, look at the markets and what are paid for players, and particularly from non-top-4 clubs/european teams.
The reason for this is that top 4 clubs have to pay a shed load for players from other top european clubs because they cant rely on their gravitas of the player simply desperate to play for them, and top clubs dont want to sell. In addition, the top european players have pedigree, and experience of CL football which adds an enormous amount.
In our case, if a top 4 club want someone like arteta or lesscott, the players will say yes please and the deal will easily be done for 10-15 million, tops, as the players will force the issue. Please. Its not rocket science...
A good example is that vidic is apparently about to be bid for, for 18-20 million. You cannot seriously tell me that lescott is in the same league or has the same gravitas.
Arteta cant even get in to the spanish squad, so he isnt an international.
We’ve got good players. We dont have top-end international players who are worth £20+ million...
Tony Marsh:
Owen has actually fucked most of that untold wealth of his into the hands of bookies round the country. Other than that I agree.
Owen wouldn’t give a shit about everton, not at all, basically he will go to club that offers highest wages, so expect him to go Aussie or somewhere and visit his mate Fowler.
He does not give a toss about football anymore, he is a gambler, he owns numerous racehorses, but spend most of his money gambling it all away.
He stays in football to fund his gambling problem, i’d rather James Vaughan get the game time than sign Owen.
As for valuations, they are media bullshit. Based on who is hot at the moment, i.e. Valencia 25mil+ in January, he was in abit of good form so his so-called vaulation rockets, its gonna be about 15/16 in total (thats including add-ons). Bassong at 15mil???joke surely.
If any accurate ones do come out from the media (a big IF), its gave to them via agents/sources who have info on what price would be accepted, with our players I imagine Moyes and co are true to their word and have not gave a valuation that they would be tempted by (not that they wouldnt be tempted by a big bid, they just wont iniatate it) thus no media source to provide details.
Owen has actually fucked most of that untold wealth of his into the hands of bookies round the country. Other than that I agree.
Owen wouldn’t give a shit about everton, not at all, basically he will go to club that offers highest wages, so expect him to go Aussie or somewhere and visit his mate Fowler.
He does not give a toss about football anymore, he is a gambler, he owns numerous racehorses, but spend most of his money gambling it all away.
He stays in football to fund his gambling problem, i’d rather James Vaughan get the game time than sign Owen.
As for valuations, they are media bullshit. Based on who is hot at the moment, i.e. Valencia 25mil+ in January, he was in abit of good form so his so-called vaulation rockets, its gonna be about 15/16 in total (thats including add-ons). Bassong at 15mil???joke surely.
If any accurate ones do come out from the media (a big IF), its gave to them via agents/sources who have info on what price would be accepted, with our players I imagine Moyes and co are true to their word and have not gave a valuation that they would be tempted by (not that they wouldnt be tempted by a big bid, they just wont iniatate it) thus no media source to provide details.
Lescott is a star, he is one of the best defenders in the Premier League and therefore the world. He will be an England player for years to come, will get better and he is on a long term contract. I put his value at £30mil. If the rumours are true and City make a realistic offer then every player has a price. We have backup with Yobo & Jags and I think Rodwell will eventually be a central defender.
Van Nistlerooy for 1.25? WTF that is a laugh. I would take him over Owen in a second.
While we are all pipe dreaming - anybody know any truth to Joe Cole, Tom Huddlestone or Diego Forlan being in the mix toward an EFC switch?
It would be a pity if we let Lescott go. Check that. It would be stupid.
While we are all pipe dreaming - anybody know any truth to Joe Cole, Tom Huddlestone or Diego Forlan being in the mix toward an EFC switch?
It would be a pity if we let Lescott go. Check that. It would be stupid.
What people need to realise is that transfer fees don’t just reflect a player’s ability. They reflect a whole load of other factors.
For instance, the reason Barry was sold for £12m this summer and not £18m last summer wasn’t because he had suddenly lost 2/3 of his ability over this past season. If you ask Villa fans, most will probably tell you that last season was his finest in a Villa shirt. The reason was that he only had a year remaining on his deal. How this relates to Everton probably has a lot to do with Moyes and the board tying down all the important players to 5 year deals as soon as the last ball was kicked: it doesn’t stop them leaving, but it means we can hold out for a much higher fee if they do want to go.
Another factor is potential. I don’t think anyone’s going to argue for Fraizer Campbell seriously being a £6m player. Point is he has the potential to develop into a handy striker. If we’re bringing this back to Everton, I’d imagine we’d get less, or roughly the same amount of money for Big Vic now as we would if we’d had an offer when he first broke through a couple of seasons ago. The reason his value hasn’t really gone up is because although he’s older, he hasn’t really developed into the player he possibly could’ve been. Similarly, I remember people raising eyebrows at Moyes spending £6m on Baines. But now we’ve seen that he’s quickly cementing his place as Cole’s successor as England’s LB, would anyone argue with £6m? Doubt it.
Timing of the deal is also crucial. Fellaini is a good player who will (in time) develop into a great one. But the reason we paid (reportedly) up to £15m for him wasn’t because he had a long contract or because he had great potential (although he does), it was because we started negotiating roughly 2 days before the window closed. Liege knew not only that we were desperate for a new mid, but that we needed some sort of positive end to a shambolic pre-season. Hence the £15m fee.
For instance, the reason Barry was sold for £12m this summer and not £18m last summer wasn’t because he had suddenly lost 2/3 of his ability over this past season. If you ask Villa fans, most will probably tell you that last season was his finest in a Villa shirt. The reason was that he only had a year remaining on his deal. How this relates to Everton probably has a lot to do with Moyes and the board tying down all the important players to 5 year deals as soon as the last ball was kicked: it doesn’t stop them leaving, but it means we can hold out for a much higher fee if they do want to go.
Another factor is potential. I don’t think anyone’s going to argue for Fraizer Campbell seriously being a £6m player. Point is he has the potential to develop into a handy striker. If we’re bringing this back to Everton, I’d imagine we’d get less, or roughly the same amount of money for Big Vic now as we would if we’d had an offer when he first broke through a couple of seasons ago. The reason his value hasn’t really gone up is because although he’s older, he hasn’t really developed into the player he possibly could’ve been. Similarly, I remember people raising eyebrows at Moyes spending £6m on Baines. But now we’ve seen that he’s quickly cementing his place as Cole’s successor as England’s LB, would anyone argue with £6m? Doubt it.
Timing of the deal is also crucial. Fellaini is a good player who will (in time) develop into a great one. But the reason we paid (reportedly) up to £15m for him wasn’t because he had a long contract or because he had great potential (although he does), it was because we started negotiating roughly 2 days before the window closed. Liege knew not only that we were desperate for a new mid, but that we needed some sort of positive end to a shambolic pre-season. Hence the £15m fee.
Some sense from Jeremy Benson. We haven?t got a £20 million player. Does anyone think we have a chance of Jo for another year on loan? I really can?t see him getting a game at City.
Unlike Michael Kenrick and Tony Marsh, I see nothing wrong with FM threads... unfortunately, though, I fear another close season like last year. What a positive signal it would send out if we could bring in a couple of players early in July and have a decent pre-season.
Jeremy Benson -
"Please, look at the markets and what are paid for players, and particularly from non-top-4 clubs/European teams."
David Bentley, Blackburn to Spurs: £20million
Gutieerrez, Mallorca to Newcastle: £12 Million
Alves, Dutch Club to Boro: £12million.
Are Our Artetas and Jagielkas really worth the same as these players?? Surely not.
"Please, look at the markets and what are paid for players, and particularly from non-top-4 clubs/European teams."
David Bentley, Blackburn to Spurs: £20million
Gutieerrez, Mallorca to Newcastle: £12 Million
Alves, Dutch Club to Boro: £12million.
Are Our Artetas and Jagielkas really worth the same as these players?? Surely not.
Simon, this is my point to writing the article; I often feel that our players have prices put on their heads that are far to low. Lescott is worth £20M+ due to potential to get better and comparison to Rio's price. Arteta, although not an international, is worth a lot more because the 4 that are stopping him playing for Spain are the best players in the world, well Xavi and Iniesta anyway. So, if we were going to sell, then it should be in line with what everyone else gets.
On the flip side, you could say we also don't seem to buy anyone at bargain price, although once Moyes has done with them, they seem bargains.
Apart from Jagielka, Arteta and Cahill who were cheap but we have developed, we never pick up quality for a good price. I would snap Villa's hand off for Barry at £12M and Van Nistelroy for £1.25M ? yes please! And Owen for free, worth the gamble, I think.
Apart from Jagielka, Arteta and Cahill who were cheap but we have developed, we never pick up quality for a good price. I would snap Villa's hand off for Barry at £12M and Van Nistelroy for £1.25M ? yes please! And Owen for free, worth the gamble, I think.
We sold Gary Naysmith for £2million and James Beattie for £5million to Sheffield United a few years back, which was tidy buisness. Marcus Bent for £2.5million as well. I would sell Lescott if they made a bid around £20million. We could do a lot with that money. I think Anichebe would be worth around £4million considering F Campbell as gone to Hull for £6million. I think if we kept hold of Jacobsen for a year or two, we could make a profit on him.
I agree with the consensus that we shouldn't sell unless we need to... OR a player asks to leave.
I?d turn down any City bid for Lescott (up until £30M, which would be crazy money) unless Lescott himself asked to leave. In that case his head is turned (by unlimited cash not trophies). In that situation, you have to sting City (or whoever) for as much as possible. i.e. Richards + Jo + £10M. Sure Lescott ain't world class (yet) or worth £25-30M but a replacement would likely cost most of that cash.
Again with Arteta, he?s irreplacable for anything less then £30M. He isn't worth that but given a suitable replacement would cost the majority of that cash. We would demand such a fee.
As above, if Toon think Gutierrez is £12M then Arteta is at least twice as good. Bentley went for £20M, that is today?s crazy prices!
Our beloved Daily Mail is reporting that Steven Pienaar is being tracked by Atletico Madrid ? as he hasn?t been offered a long terms contract.
Could we really let him go? For my money, he?s been terrific for us.
Jeremy Benson - I have to disagree.
I don?t think there is a hard and fast rule about how much a player is worth. Any player is worth what the buying club is prepared to pay for him. If the buying club is Man City, then I?d set the price at £25M minimum and they can take it or leave it. Maybe they?ll say no, but then we get to keep Lescott. If they really want him and we won?t budge, then they?ll pay the money.
Why should we say Lescott is only worth £2.5M so there you go?
There have been plenty of deals which indicate to me that Lescott is worth more than £10-15M. Robbie Keane to Liverpool? AJ to Fulham?
Lescott is on the fringes of the England team and will be a regular there barring injury. He has 3 years left on his contract and 6 - 7 years left at the top again barring injury.
Barry went for £12M, would have been free in 12 months and is older than Lescott and he made it clear that he wanted to leave Villa. I don?t consider Barry to be vastly ahead of Lescott ability-wise, so why shouldn?t we expect a premium for Lescott.
I would prefer to hold on to Lescott, but sod it; if it?s £25M or no dice, then we can get a lot of player for that.
I don?t think there is a hard and fast rule about how much a player is worth. Any player is worth what the buying club is prepared to pay for him. If the buying club is Man City, then I?d set the price at £25M minimum and they can take it or leave it. Maybe they?ll say no, but then we get to keep Lescott. If they really want him and we won?t budge, then they?ll pay the money.
Why should we say Lescott is only worth £2.5M so there you go?
There have been plenty of deals which indicate to me that Lescott is worth more than £10-15M. Robbie Keane to Liverpool? AJ to Fulham?
Lescott is on the fringes of the England team and will be a regular there barring injury. He has 3 years left on his contract and 6 - 7 years left at the top again barring injury.
Barry went for £12M, would have been free in 12 months and is older than Lescott and he made it clear that he wanted to leave Villa. I don?t consider Barry to be vastly ahead of Lescott ability-wise, so why shouldn?t we expect a premium for Lescott.
I would prefer to hold on to Lescott, but sod it; if it?s £25M or no dice, then we can get a lot of player for that.
I do think some supporters go out of their way to take offence at Everton?s media coverage. Getting upset about hypothetical valuations on hypothetical transfers ? get a grip!
"Please, look at the markets and what are paid for players, and particularly from non-top-4 clubs/European teams". Errmmm... didnt we sell a player for £20m+ about 5 years ago? I can't remember his name, but he was an ugly fucker.
I completely disagree with the original poster - there are only a small handful of players that are touted around for hilarious amounts of money. The market is flooded with deadbeats at this time of year, and anything above £10m for a defender is good money.
English players, consistently do not sell for the same amount as foreign ones, and Arteta (as your example) is a top player at Everton, but is he an International? No. Has he played at the top level in Europe? No.
As our American cousins might say - you do the math.
English players, consistently do not sell for the same amount as foreign ones, and Arteta (as your example) is a top player at Everton, but is he an International? No. Has he played at the top level in Europe? No.
As our American cousins might say - you do the math.
The key thing about the potential Lescott to City link ? and for my money there must be something in it as it refuses to go away ? is the position of the buying club.
City have shitloads of cash, farcical short-term league ambitions and a shite defence. Any other club that he would even consider going to would have to offer something we don?t at the moment ? i.e. Champions League football. City would just have to offer more millions, making him in my opinion a genuine £20m player to them.
That said, don?t think he?ll go, especially as we?ll be without Jags for the first few months. Another quick point, do we really want Rodwell to be a Central Defender? So much more valuable as a centre mid, no?
James, I think you will find the only reason Arteta is not an international is because he is Spanish! If he were from anywhere else, he would be and he is of international class, Xavi and Inesta are worth £40-odd million that's why he can't get in, so therefore Arteta does not necceserily take a value of £10m just because he is not as good as these two! Anything above £10m is good, it's a bloody good job your are not in charge of our club then!
I take it all back; having done my research, I found we got £½ mil for Mark Pembridge, what a deal! And over £2 mil for Marcus Bent!!!
I take it all back... top dollar!!!
I take it all back... top dollar!!!
The worst one is Valencia for £16 million? He?s a good player, but not that good what has he done this season to reflect that price? And going slightly off the point, why is he suddenly made out to be a world-beater with him being a top target for Man United and Real Madrid? Steven Pienaar has had a much more productive season so what must he be worth... £20M+? No, he?s barely worth half that, according to the rumours spread in the media.
Rob - you clearly havent read my post properly mate. The reason Arteta is not an International is not because he’s Spanish, its because he’s not good enough to get in the Spain team (unless thats what you meant?). You’ve missed my point entirely, Rob - Arteta is not worth as much because he is NOT an International, whether you think he’s good enough isn’t the point - the fact that Xavi & Iniesta are the best 2 midfielders in the world in his position is nothing to do with it per se, the point is that he has never played at that level and will never be able to establish himself at that leve, thus meaning his fee is lower - gettit?
I didnt say he was only worth £10m, I said a decent defender like Lescott is worth £10m and any price around that is a good price - its only the top teams and top International (of which Lescott is not one) will command a high fee. He has only played a handful of games for England and is lucky to make the bench - as a result, his fee (like Arteta’s) is lower.
It’s not rocket science, nor is the fee a player commands based on what supporters of his club think he is worth.
I think you have the wrong end of the stick in a big way, Rob - I’m being realistic.
I didnt say he was only worth £10m, I said a decent defender like Lescott is worth £10m and any price around that is a good price - its only the top teams and top International (of which Lescott is not one) will command a high fee. He has only played a handful of games for England and is lucky to make the bench - as a result, his fee (like Arteta’s) is lower.
It’s not rocket science, nor is the fee a player commands based on what supporters of his club think he is worth.
I think you have the wrong end of the stick in a big way, Rob - I’m being realistic.
@James Marshall - I think it’s you who has the wrong end of the stick.
£10m for Lescott (thank god you are not in charge of the transfers at Goodison) - is a joke. Of course there is no yardstick as to measure the value of a player, but certain attributes must be taken into consideration.
1) He’s a very good defender - £8m in todays market.
2) Has England caps - +£2m
3) Scores goals + £3m
4) We dont want to sell him + £3m
5) IF City are involved + £4m
If he does get sold, I am confident the club would be able to generate at least £15/ 16m for him. Personally I hope he stays.
Geddit James?
Matt, saved me writing a lot back there thanks! James, no i dont have the wrong end of the stick, i have an opinion and thats what makes theses forums so interesting.
Thanks for yours by the way.
Thanks for yours by the way.
Matt - your logic smacks of a kid playing too much Fantasy Football on his Playstation!
I feel somewhat embarrased by your response - where did you get those figures from? Is that how football clubs are run then is it?
Somehow I think you and Rob are a little deluded but then its all about opinions and you’re welcome to yours, despite me thinking its wrong.
You cant rate a player at £8m then tab on another £2m for sitting on the bench with England, followed by £3m ’because he scores goals’, that would be incorporated into how highly he’s rated as a player surely? Thats like saying Ronaldo is worth another £5m because he can do step-overs!
This is all very childish.
Lets just stick to our opinions, because we’re never going to change each others minds.
Have a nice day, gents.
I feel somewhat embarrased by your response - where did you get those figures from? Is that how football clubs are run then is it?
Somehow I think you and Rob are a little deluded but then its all about opinions and you’re welcome to yours, despite me thinking its wrong.
You cant rate a player at £8m then tab on another £2m for sitting on the bench with England, followed by £3m ’because he scores goals’, that would be incorporated into how highly he’s rated as a player surely? Thats like saying Ronaldo is worth another £5m because he can do step-overs!
This is all very childish.
Lets just stick to our opinions, because we’re never going to change each others minds.
Have a nice day, gents.
Sorry James, never had a Playstation, and if my post embarrased you, you should have stopped reading it.
I love the way you sum your post up by descibing it as ’childish’ - I agree, calling people names (deluded) is childish.
P.S I’ve had a great day.
I love the way you sum your post up by descibing it as ’childish’ - I agree, calling people names (deluded) is childish.
P.S I’ve had a great day.
Matt - your post embarrased you, not me mate!
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1 Posted 07/06/2009 at 15:44:38
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Have we sold someone without any of us know?
I kinda remember getting a decent wedge for Johnson!