The Mail Bag
We need English-based players
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Let me start off with the fact that I am a South African and very proud of Steven Pienaar. The thing is, every time I look at the all the transfer gossip, I hope and pray Everton is going for an English-based player.
Why? Well, Liverpool lost out on the title race because they did not have the fight in them, why would the Spanish National team run themselves into the ground for the EPL title?
I believe Man Utd is always doing well due to the fact that the core of the team is English-based. We beat Liverpool in the FA Cup with 8 English-based players on the field, while they had one left at the end of the game.
Barcelona was excellent because the majority of the team was Spanish-based players.
I maybe wrong, but I always feel that you can count on the English players to fight for the team until there is nothing left. I suppose it sounds silly for a South African / Everton supporter to say this, but I really hope Moyes will bring in English-based players for the new campaign.
Please do not get me wrong, the foreign players in the Everton side are doing great, but the first thing I do, when I look at the team sheet, is to count how many English-based players we have on the field.
Machiel Barnard, Posted 10/06/2009 at 03:39:38
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I agree with you on most of that Gordon, the AFCoN is a concern, especially as it looks like Yobo will be ever present if Lescott moves. I don?t agree with Machiel about the attitude of English players (in fact I?m uncomfortable with the overtones of his post), but I do think it helps morale and team spirit when most of the team can speak the same language. That said, I crave quality for EFC above all else, so where they come from is secondary in my book, Mouthino for Lescott anyone?
What a contradiction. The non-English are doing well, but you want English players.
Talk about hedging your bets.
Hopw about this. I want the best players for Everton... and the best players are invariably not English.
I also couldn?t give two shíts about the English national team... They are not the best in the world, and belong were they are. Also rans.
Talk about hedging your bets.
Hopw about this. I want the best players for Everton... and the best players are invariably not English.
I also couldn?t give two shíts about the English national team... They are not the best in the world, and belong were they are. Also rans.
The foreigners are doing well, but you want English players? Sorry, but I want the best players.
Strange thread.
Strange thread.
I think it’s more a question of character than nationality & Moyes seems to have a good record in signing players with the right character, wherever they’ve come from. Although there is always the exception that proves the rule ......VDM!
I see we were linked with Fabian Delph very strongly this morning. He is meant to have great potential.
The problem with buying British is the price. When you see Bentley chaging hands for £14million and Jenas quoted at £12million when Moutinho moght be available for £10million it makes no business sense to buy British. Last summer Arsenal beat us and others to sign Ramsey for £5million. He has played about 10 games! I am not saying he won’t be good in a couple of seasons, but if his name was Ramze and he had come from some small Bundesliga club the price would have been a tenth waht was paid to Cardiff.
The problem with buying British is the price. When you see Bentley chaging hands for £14million and Jenas quoted at £12million when Moutinho moght be available for £10million it makes no business sense to buy British. Last summer Arsenal beat us and others to sign Ramsey for £5million. He has played about 10 games! I am not saying he won’t be good in a couple of seasons, but if his name was Ramze and he had come from some small Bundesliga club the price would have been a tenth waht was paid to Cardiff.
I think we have a very good mix of English and foreign through our squad, but you wouldnt say the english lads put more effort in than the others for Everton. You may well see more inter-england/britain soon because the pound is so weak and you end up paying over the odds from europe (take the Kaka transfer, only a world record from this country, not europe)! I think Moyes is looking to the future and getting the best youth he can, where thats from makes no odds really.
I don't see it as a strange thread, Ciaran. I?m an affirmed luddite when it comes to my football ? I don't want us to end up like Arsenal etc with a team full of foreigners or like the RS with a youth academy of Spaniards. I?m a huge fan of Arteta/Cahill etc but I like the fact that we have lots of Brittish players and I also like it when we have local lads in the squad ? to me it makes us feel more like a "proper" football club. Not rational, just how I feel.
Pienaar is not going to the African Nations Cup, they did not qualify..... A loan for Mancienne could be a good shout ? cover right and centre back, good young player or could we get him on the cheap???
You don’t see it as strange Damian?
Fair enough. I however find it very strange that some of our fans don’t want the best players at Everton - and sacrifice the notion of perfection in favour of some misguided notion of jingoism.
Nil satis Nisi English? Na, no thanks.
Fair enough. I however find it very strange that some of our fans don’t want the best players at Everton - and sacrifice the notion of perfection in favour of some misguided notion of jingoism.
Nil satis Nisi English? Na, no thanks.
For me the biggest plus in lots of English players is that we?re less likely to struggle if the EPL/Uefa introduce quotas. I can remember some years ago when Man Utd were struggling to juggle a squad full of ?foreigners? to keep within allowed limits for a European game.
Not jingoistic merely old fashioned. The thing I love about the current squad is that they come over as a decent bunch of lads (home-based and foreign) and a real team rather than some of the other wankers that we see in the division.
I’m certainly not suggesting that there are no Brittish wankers or that foreigners are prima donnas blah blah but I do believe that a core of Brittish players helps to create the team spirit.
More importantly, for me being a fan is about being able to identify with my team - I find it easier to identify with a side that has players from my own country (otherwise why not go the whole hog and support Real Madrid or AC Milan).
I can admire the current Arsenal side and wish that we could play like them but if they were all at Everton I would find it hard to identify with the team - and if you lose the connection with your team, football just becomes a product - which is why I never watch matches that dont involve Everton. its also why I dont want us to be taken over by a billionaire and turned into everything I despise in the Sky4
Finally, I think the "notion of perfection" is meaningless, so nothing for me to sacrifice there.
I’m certainly not suggesting that there are no Brittish wankers or that foreigners are prima donnas blah blah but I do believe that a core of Brittish players helps to create the team spirit.
More importantly, for me being a fan is about being able to identify with my team - I find it easier to identify with a side that has players from my own country (otherwise why not go the whole hog and support Real Madrid or AC Milan).
I can admire the current Arsenal side and wish that we could play like them but if they were all at Everton I would find it hard to identify with the team - and if you lose the connection with your team, football just becomes a product - which is why I never watch matches that dont involve Everton. its also why I dont want us to be taken over by a billionaire and turned into everything I despise in the Sky4
Finally, I think the "notion of perfection" is meaningless, so nothing for me to sacrifice there.
In fact I?m so unjingoistic that I can't even spell 'British' right...
Damian ¨that's more of a BNP (British jobs for British workers) type affirmation than a Luddite one (an English movement for sure ? English is not a dirty word ? but one that was against, in lay terms, technology replacing jobs).
For me I can see where the original post is coming from, but I don't agree with a quota system or that having a predominantly English side is anything other than a frivolous throw-away ice breaker down the pub: "Yeah, you might have finished 2nd laa, but we got 8 English lads ey, so who's the better really?!!.... ah shut up and get the round in knobhead".
The problem I see with having an all English or predominantly all English line up is why stop there? We are from Liverpool, so should the majority of English players we have hail from the city too? Where does it stop?? I suggest here: "Let me start off with the fact that I am a South African and very proud of Steven Pienaar." And stop. COYB!
For me I can see where the original post is coming from, but I don't agree with a quota system or that having a predominantly English side is anything other than a frivolous throw-away ice breaker down the pub: "Yeah, you might have finished 2nd laa, but we got 8 English lads ey, so who's the better really?!!.... ah shut up and get the round in knobhead".
The problem I see with having an all English or predominantly all English line up is why stop there? We are from Liverpool, so should the majority of English players we have hail from the city too? Where does it stop?? I suggest here: "Let me start off with the fact that I am a South African and very proud of Steven Pienaar." And stop. COYB!
Do they come over as a bunch of decent lads because they’re English? Well obviously not..because they’re not all English.
As for Arsenal...they are reknowned for their team spirit...I’d say team spirit is more to do with the ethos of the club and the manager.
Regarding identifying with the team - I can’t buy that for a second. If you really rely on the sum of the parts to identify with everton, rather than the institution itself - then that’s a sad state of affairs. Everton is Everton FC..the team we all unconditionally love - irrespective of who it employs.
P.S ’perfection’ may be a meaningless phrase in football...’the notion of perfection’ however has a slightly different meaning...
As for Arsenal...they are reknowned for their team spirit...I’d say team spirit is more to do with the ethos of the club and the manager.
Regarding identifying with the team - I can’t buy that for a second. If you really rely on the sum of the parts to identify with everton, rather than the institution itself - then that’s a sad state of affairs. Everton is Everton FC..the team we all unconditionally love - irrespective of who it employs.
P.S ’perfection’ may be a meaningless phrase in football...’the notion of perfection’ however has a slightly different meaning...
Don?t really agree with your argument. Sure being English we want to see English payers as the core of English football but the obsession with most Prem clubs seems to be that buying foreign makes the team more ??attractive?? on paper and they can also attract players from less affluent countries who pay very low wages. Just look at all the South American players who now play in Europe?
The die is cast and we English have to live with an International football league but I disagree that the non-English players give less that 100% in all games. Some older, wiser players will pace themselves and don?t run hell for leather for 90 minutes so it may appear they are not trying when in fact their final contribution may be just as effective.
"Everton is Everton FC... the team we all unconditionally love ? irrespective of who it employs."
Disagree with you Ciaran. I used to love football full stop. I now dislike what football has become ? things change and you re-evaluate feelings accordingly.
However, I still have my love for Everton. We are obviously a part of the modern game and have changed in many ways. However, I can still recognise the essence or the soul of the Everton I fell in love with as kid and also the Everton that my dad talks about from his childhood.
If we became like, for example, Chelsea with the (even more) obscene levels of pay, the arrogance, the behaviour after the Barcelona game, the ticket pricing etc for me that soul would be gone, I wouldn't still love us and I would have no further interest in football.
I love my wife dearly but I love her for who she is. If she had a personality transplant and became someone else I wouldn't necessarily still love her.
By the way, Joey, careful re the BNP accusations, it's really not where the debate was going ? you?re surely bright enough to realise that.
Disagree with you Ciaran. I used to love football full stop. I now dislike what football has become ? things change and you re-evaluate feelings accordingly.
However, I still have my love for Everton. We are obviously a part of the modern game and have changed in many ways. However, I can still recognise the essence or the soul of the Everton I fell in love with as kid and also the Everton that my dad talks about from his childhood.
If we became like, for example, Chelsea with the (even more) obscene levels of pay, the arrogance, the behaviour after the Barcelona game, the ticket pricing etc for me that soul would be gone, I wouldn't still love us and I would have no further interest in football.
I love my wife dearly but I love her for who she is. If she had a personality transplant and became someone else I wouldn't necessarily still love her.
By the way, Joey, careful re the BNP accusations, it's really not where the debate was going ? you?re surely bright enough to realise that.
English *speaking* you could make an argument for (this doesn’t mean native to an English speaking country, just fluent enough to not miss out on team spirit); English nationality seems irrelevant.
Cahill, Yobo, Yak, Arteta, Howard, Pienear...
Silly Article..
Silly Article..
Fair enough on your point about re-evaluation Damian...I simply don’t think i’d ever be capable of such a contrived decision on my relationship with Everton...even if they had an employee like Drogba.
Perhaps thats part of the enigma. That I don’t really understand the affinity.
Perhaps thats part of the enigma. That I don’t really understand the affinity.
Whilst I don't agree with your statement wholeheartedly, I do believe that signing English will benefit us when the English quota comes in. Our squad stock will rise sharply I would suspect, something the pragmatist moyes must be aware of even if signing English is already his prerogative...
Damian ? no accusation being made on my part, I had a fucking BNP flyer through my door recently and its main slogan was "British jobs for British workers".
You wrote: I'm an affirmed luddite when it comes to my football ? I don't want us to end up with a team full of foreigners, we have lots of British players in the squad ? to me it makes us feel more like a "proper" football club.
I'm not accusing you of anything; I just see a marked correlation between the 2 quotes above. Firstly, you made mention of the Luddite movement ? in my opinion erroneously, as their fight was nothing to do with "British jobs for British people", theirs was a fight for British jobs for people (i.e. not machines).
Secondly, you made reference to a team without foreign players (or at least with as few as possible) makes you feel that that team is a proper club, as if to say a club with a foreign contingent wouldn't be a "proper club" ? precisely and only because of that reason.
I guess I know what your sentiment is, and that having an Everton side populated with homegrown players who are up for the cause, maybe even blues themselves, is somewhat of an achievement given the way the EPL is setup and how the game works today. However, the way you worded it was pretty close to the wind in my opinion, which is why I made comment, not accusation.
My feelings are if you are good enough, then you are good enough. Whether it be a 17-year-old scouser breaking through the academy, or a 30-year-old seasoned veteran from Argentina. It's up to the manager to pick the side, on merit, and not on nationality.
I also think that if Chelski had never happened, and by default fecked it up, Evertonian's would have been happy to have been bought out by a billionaire and become a team of Galacticos. It's just now, no-one, rightly so, wants to follow the Chelski mould. Moreover, I think we are all liking the way our side has a backbone of homegrown talent with a liberal sprinkling of top quality international imports, and perhaps this thread and posts merely underlines that we want that format to continue.
You wrote: I'm an affirmed luddite when it comes to my football ? I don't want us to end up with a team full of foreigners, we have lots of British players in the squad ? to me it makes us feel more like a "proper" football club.
I'm not accusing you of anything; I just see a marked correlation between the 2 quotes above. Firstly, you made mention of the Luddite movement ? in my opinion erroneously, as their fight was nothing to do with "British jobs for British people", theirs was a fight for British jobs for people (i.e. not machines).
Secondly, you made reference to a team without foreign players (or at least with as few as possible) makes you feel that that team is a proper club, as if to say a club with a foreign contingent wouldn't be a "proper club" ? precisely and only because of that reason.
I guess I know what your sentiment is, and that having an Everton side populated with homegrown players who are up for the cause, maybe even blues themselves, is somewhat of an achievement given the way the EPL is setup and how the game works today. However, the way you worded it was pretty close to the wind in my opinion, which is why I made comment, not accusation.
My feelings are if you are good enough, then you are good enough. Whether it be a 17-year-old scouser breaking through the academy, or a 30-year-old seasoned veteran from Argentina. It's up to the manager to pick the side, on merit, and not on nationality.
I also think that if Chelski had never happened, and by default fecked it up, Evertonian's would have been happy to have been bought out by a billionaire and become a team of Galacticos. It's just now, no-one, rightly so, wants to follow the Chelski mould. Moreover, I think we are all liking the way our side has a backbone of homegrown talent with a liberal sprinkling of top quality international imports, and perhaps this thread and posts merely underlines that we want that format to continue.
All this talk about ?English Quota?s? seems to suggest that it is a done deal. It isn?t.
A quota on foreign players would be contrary to freedom of movement pillar of European law... and possible freedon of services and establishment. Fifa and Uefa are already sailing dangerous close to the wind with the transfer window.
In my opinion, there is no way the commission will allow this silly quota rule anyway...and they?ve already suggested as much to Blatter and Platini.
The idea that the English will suddenly become the best in the world is a pile of bollix anyway. It will not make English players any more talented. In fact, i?d suggest it will be counterproductive...by decreasing the level of quality in the Premier League you decrease the level which players aspire to..
A foreign or domestic quota system will never have any legs were European players are concerned.
A quota on foreign players would be contrary to freedom of movement pillar of European law... and possible freedon of services and establishment. Fifa and Uefa are already sailing dangerous close to the wind with the transfer window.
In my opinion, there is no way the commission will allow this silly quota rule anyway...and they?ve already suggested as much to Blatter and Platini.
The idea that the English will suddenly become the best in the world is a pile of bollix anyway. It will not make English players any more talented. In fact, i?d suggest it will be counterproductive...by decreasing the level of quality in the Premier League you decrease the level which players aspire to..
A foreign or domestic quota system will never have any legs were European players are concerned.
Joey - thanks for the clarification. I was maybe a bit touchy as hate the idea of being associated in any way with that scum. Re Luddites, you?re right re precise definition but the term is generally used these days to refer to a resistence to change in practice.
I don't like the all-seater stadia, playing music to celebrate goals, half-time entertainment... chunter, chunter. I?m also nostalgic of the days when players were "of the people" i.e. were part of the same class, area, outlook as the fans ? that's more what I meant by a "proper" club.
Ciaran - totally with you about the enigma. While I believe what I wrote on a rational level, I have no idea how I would react on an emotional level if it ever came to pass. Also agree that quotas are nonsense. Re Drogba, dont get me started...
Arsenal renowned for their team spirit? Was that meant to be sarcastic?
Arsenal are the least spirited team in the division, performing below their talents on a consistent basis. Gallas?s sit down protests, Bendtner?s attitude in general, Fabregas? arrogance...
By whom are Arsenal renowned for their team spirit? I would say the exact opposite is true, which is why they never get anywhere near winning anything despite their talent.
As for the main argument there are two things here, one is that I identify more with English, then British and English speaking players than with ?foreigners?. (This is a natural way to feel, as they are more representative of me, and I?d love to get called jingoistic, BNP or something else for that because if you knew me you?d find it hilarious). You want to feel as though the players playing for your club care, and they?re MORE LIKELY to if they can understand the history and the fans which is helped by speaking the language perfectly. To this extent Dutch players and Scandinavians often understand our football and culture very well (VDM being an unfortunate exception).
The other is in who we?re buying, I?d always be more in favour of someone who already lives in this country and has played their football here, and would definitely be biased in their favour as they are a known quantity and lower risk. Each player needs to be weighed up on a number of factors, such as injury proneness, adaptability, personality, willingness to fit in and others, not just footballing ability.
I think the main point being made is that domestic players are MORE LIKELY to score highly on all the extra things that are important when we sign players. Footballers are individuals though, so there?s no point using an individual example of a ?bad? domestic attitude (Bentley) or a ?good? foreign one (Arteta) as they don?t prove or disprove anything about a generalisation.
Arsenal are the least spirited team in the division, performing below their talents on a consistent basis. Gallas?s sit down protests, Bendtner?s attitude in general, Fabregas? arrogance...
By whom are Arsenal renowned for their team spirit? I would say the exact opposite is true, which is why they never get anywhere near winning anything despite their talent.
As for the main argument there are two things here, one is that I identify more with English, then British and English speaking players than with ?foreigners?. (This is a natural way to feel, as they are more representative of me, and I?d love to get called jingoistic, BNP or something else for that because if you knew me you?d find it hilarious). You want to feel as though the players playing for your club care, and they?re MORE LIKELY to if they can understand the history and the fans which is helped by speaking the language perfectly. To this extent Dutch players and Scandinavians often understand our football and culture very well (VDM being an unfortunate exception).
The other is in who we?re buying, I?d always be more in favour of someone who already lives in this country and has played their football here, and would definitely be biased in their favour as they are a known quantity and lower risk. Each player needs to be weighed up on a number of factors, such as injury proneness, adaptability, personality, willingness to fit in and others, not just footballing ability.
I think the main point being made is that domestic players are MORE LIKELY to score highly on all the extra things that are important when we sign players. Footballers are individuals though, so there?s no point using an individual example of a ?bad? domestic attitude (Bentley) or a ?good? foreign one (Arteta) as they don?t prove or disprove anything about a generalisation.
"I think the main point being made is that domestic players are MORE LIKELY to score highly on all the extra things that are important when we sign players"
Care to offer and explantion for this presumption? Personally I think it?s nonsense.
As for your dismissing of Arsenal?s team spirit ? You only have to watch them before a match and their interaction during a match, to see that they want to do well for each other. Failing that... do a quick Google with the words ?arsenal? and ?team spirit?. Then you see by ?whom? they are regarded as having a good team spirit... essentially the entire sports media.
Care to offer and explantion for this presumption? Personally I think it?s nonsense.
As for your dismissing of Arsenal?s team spirit ? You only have to watch them before a match and their interaction during a match, to see that they want to do well for each other. Failing that... do a quick Google with the words ?arsenal? and ?team spirit?. Then you see by ?whom? they are regarded as having a good team spirit... essentially the entire sports media.
My explanation for this ’presumption’ is my own experience of watching football in this country for the last 20+ years. Ask Harry Redknapp for one, its remarkable how he now buys so many English players having gone through the likes of Paolo Futre and Marco Boogers. Its only a generalisation, and isn’t quantifiable in any meaningful way, but I don’t think those of us who believe in it have made it up out of thin air. If I was in Spain supporting a Spanish team I’d want Spanish speaking players with experience of Spanish football, the same would be true anywhere (its easier in Spain as South Americans speak Spanish and the Portuguese speaking Brazilians pick it up generall quite well)
And Arsenal’s team spirit? You’re joking right? I just did Google it, there were two articles where Arsenal players and managers claim to have a good team spirit (doesn’t everyone?) one result talked about Everton’s team spirit (it was on the Arsenal website) and there were numerous examples of where Arsenal’s ’famous team spirit’ was ’sadly lacking’.
Again I say, Arsenal have possibly the worst team spirit in the Premier League, which is why they never get anywhere near winning anything despite their talent. A lot of their players also seem keen to leave every summer.
I welcome everyone else reading to Google Arsenal Team Spirit and see what comes up.
And Arsenal’s team spirit? You’re joking right? I just did Google it, there were two articles where Arsenal players and managers claim to have a good team spirit (doesn’t everyone?) one result talked about Everton’s team spirit (it was on the Arsenal website) and there were numerous examples of where Arsenal’s ’famous team spirit’ was ’sadly lacking’.
Again I say, Arsenal have possibly the worst team spirit in the Premier League, which is why they never get anywhere near winning anything despite their talent. A lot of their players also seem keen to leave every summer.
I welcome everyone else reading to Google Arsenal Team Spirit and see what comes up.
The idea that fans do not identify with players is the most ridiculous thing I’ve heard in a long time.
Whilst wanting the best team we can possibly get, the idea that the team should share some of the identity of the club is not a bad thing. Ask Barcelona, with a team and youth set up full of Catalans. It binds the team and the fans even more. Is that wrong?
Nobody (I think) wants a team full of token scousers. It’s not that we shouldn’t recruit players from anywhere in the world, it’s just that we should try a bit harder to develop our own crop from an early age (whether they are from Walton, Winchester or Western Samoa).
As for the notion that espousing such a wish is tantamount to supporting the BNP, I don’t see that in the article’s message and frankly such sick notions have no place here.
Whilst wanting the best team we can possibly get, the idea that the team should share some of the identity of the club is not a bad thing. Ask Barcelona, with a team and youth set up full of Catalans. It binds the team and the fans even more. Is that wrong?
Nobody (I think) wants a team full of token scousers. It’s not that we shouldn’t recruit players from anywhere in the world, it’s just that we should try a bit harder to develop our own crop from an early age (whether they are from Walton, Winchester or Western Samoa).
As for the notion that espousing such a wish is tantamount to supporting the BNP, I don’t see that in the article’s message and frankly such sick notions have no place here.
Not only is it ?not quantifiable?....it?s a ludicrous proposition.
To suggest that foreigners may be somewhat lesser than domestic players in the areas of "injury proneness, adaptability, personality ?&? willingness to fit in and others"...is simply absurd.
Even the case on adaptability is debatable in the extreme...considering the amount English players who fall flat on their face in the Premier League.
The language barrier may be your only point of merit. But considering that English is taught as a second language in the majority of European countries (and sometimes to a much higher standard) -this also seems a somewhat wreckless presumption.
Arsenals ?famous team spirit was sadly lacking? - so, it?s famous, is it?
Everton team spirit - 54k hits
Arsenal team spirit - 320k hits
Not exactly science...but gives you a general hint that there may be something in it.
To suggest that foreigners may be somewhat lesser than domestic players in the areas of "injury proneness, adaptability, personality ?&? willingness to fit in and others"...is simply absurd.
Even the case on adaptability is debatable in the extreme...considering the amount English players who fall flat on their face in the Premier League.
The language barrier may be your only point of merit. But considering that English is taught as a second language in the majority of European countries (and sometimes to a much higher standard) -this also seems a somewhat wreckless presumption.
Arsenals ?famous team spirit was sadly lacking? - so, it?s famous, is it?
Everton team spirit - 54k hits
Arsenal team spirit - 320k hits
Not exactly science...but gives you a general hint that there may be something in it.
By the way..
Who do you reckon is the fans most celebrated player this season?
I’d say it’s that Moroccan-Belgium immigrant who made a fortune for wig makers all over Merseyside.
Who do you reckon is the fans most celebrated player this season?
I’d say it’s that Moroccan-Belgium immigrant who made a fortune for wig makers all over Merseyside.
Funnily enough this is a topic I discussed with an Arsenal season-ticket holder a couple of weeks ago. He was bemoaning the lack of fight and togetherness at Arsenal at the moment ? especially compared to the Arsenal sides of a few years ago who would never have lain down like this seasons team did against Utd and Chelsea.
He was also really chuffed with having a couple of english players (Gibbs and Walcott) playing and wanted Wilkshire to get in as well - most Arsenal fans I know feel the same way about the lack of british players even with the success and the fantastic football.
He was also really chuffed with having a couple of english players (Gibbs and Walcott) playing and wanted Wilkshire to get in as well - most Arsenal fans I know feel the same way about the lack of british players even with the success and the fantastic football.
Re web hits, 320,000 hits will include articles many years old that have no relevance now and could just as well be articles criticising Arsenals team spirit as praising it
Thats the danger of statistics, 89% of all people automatically believe them if you state them confidently.
Thats the danger of statistics, 89% of all people automatically believe them if you state them confidently.
Ciaran
Just because more people google Arsenal than Everton in respect to team spirit does not mean Arsenal have more of it! Or even possess it at all. It could, in fact, mean precisely the opposite. It could mean that Arsenal supporters are googling like mad trying to find evidence that it actually exists!
Just because more people google Arsenal than Everton in respect to team spirit does not mean Arsenal have more of it! Or even possess it at all. It could, in fact, mean precisely the opposite. It could mean that Arsenal supporters are googling like mad trying to find evidence that it actually exists!
It's clearly not a ?ludicrous proposition? as it appears to be quite a commonly held one.
It is also not ?simply absurd? to say that foreigners may be less adaptable or willing to fit in (I never meant ?personality? or injury-proneness to be included in the foreign/domestic debate, that was sloppy of me) there is reams of circumstantial evidence for it and a number of players who?ve sunk without trace having failed to adapt, most of the names end up being forgotten as they don?t have an impact: Marco Boogers, Paolo Futre, Agustin Delgado, Ali Dia are the ones I can think of off the top of my head (as well as Van der Meyde). A player who already lives in England and knows English culture and English football culture is more likely to settle and adapt and play well at his new club, I simply don?t understand why you think this is ridiculous or absurd.
What amount of English players who fall flat on their face in the Premier League?
What reckless presumption have I made?
To seize on the word ?famous? is ridiculous. For all I know, the writer was being sarcastic. Even if he wasn?t the use of the word could mean anything, it could be a reference to the fact that Arsenal?s players talk about it a lot.
You?re ?number of hits? comparison makes you look silly. I?ve already mentioned that some of those articles are about Arsenal failing to display team spirit. There could be so many results on it because it is such an issue for them and they feel compelled to talk about or defend it (as one of the links I clicked on was). There?s also the simple fact that Arsenal get written about a lot more than we do. So no, it doesn?t give you a general hint that there may be something in it at all.
And Fellaini is ?celebrated? precisely because of his hair. That tells you nothing about this general debate.
It is also not ?simply absurd? to say that foreigners may be less adaptable or willing to fit in (I never meant ?personality? or injury-proneness to be included in the foreign/domestic debate, that was sloppy of me) there is reams of circumstantial evidence for it and a number of players who?ve sunk without trace having failed to adapt, most of the names end up being forgotten as they don?t have an impact: Marco Boogers, Paolo Futre, Agustin Delgado, Ali Dia are the ones I can think of off the top of my head (as well as Van der Meyde). A player who already lives in England and knows English culture and English football culture is more likely to settle and adapt and play well at his new club, I simply don?t understand why you think this is ridiculous or absurd.
What amount of English players who fall flat on their face in the Premier League?
What reckless presumption have I made?
To seize on the word ?famous? is ridiculous. For all I know, the writer was being sarcastic. Even if he wasn?t the use of the word could mean anything, it could be a reference to the fact that Arsenal?s players talk about it a lot.
You?re ?number of hits? comparison makes you look silly. I?ve already mentioned that some of those articles are about Arsenal failing to display team spirit. There could be so many results on it because it is such an issue for them and they feel compelled to talk about or defend it (as one of the links I clicked on was). There?s also the simple fact that Arsenal get written about a lot more than we do. So no, it doesn?t give you a general hint that there may be something in it at all.
And Fellaini is ?celebrated? precisely because of his hair. That tells you nothing about this general debate.
"England cricket good team" 121 million hits
"Australia cricket good team" 3 million hits
Wow, we’re so much better than them.
Hmm, getting a bit random now. I wish today and my hangover were over. Time for a lie down.
"Australia cricket good team" 3 million hits
Wow, we’re so much better than them.
Hmm, getting a bit random now. I wish today and my hangover were over. Time for a lie down.
Some of this debate is going a bit off the rails.
It is perfectly defendable to say that British players and those that already play in England are more likely to fit in. That is because the current culture of Everton is most influenced by English culture. This includes assumptions of the correct way to behave. English culture is not better than other cultures - but it is different. And it is a lot easier to fit in and feel part of the team if you can understand the culture.
So players that have experienced this culture (or similar cultures such as other parts of Britain, Ireland, Australia etc) are statistically more likely to fit in.
Also if you swamp the squad with players from other cultures the overall culture of the team will change. As the Everton culture seems to have a very positive effect at present any change is likely to have a negative effect.
I am sure if pushed I could dig up any number of studies conducted by Harvard Business School to back up this theory.
On a historical point I once read that it was Sunderland who first started recruiting players from outside their immediate vicintiy - and this caused a certain uproar at the time (the 1890s)
In the 1970s I remember my Dad often bemoaning that the Everton team did not really represent Lancashire because most of their players came from outside the region.
12years ago I remember a debate on Lyndon’s Realm of Everton what it would be like to support a team with a majority non-British element. Seems all a bit dated now.
It is perfectly defendable to say that British players and those that already play in England are more likely to fit in. That is because the current culture of Everton is most influenced by English culture. This includes assumptions of the correct way to behave. English culture is not better than other cultures - but it is different. And it is a lot easier to fit in and feel part of the team if you can understand the culture.
So players that have experienced this culture (or similar cultures such as other parts of Britain, Ireland, Australia etc) are statistically more likely to fit in.
Also if you swamp the squad with players from other cultures the overall culture of the team will change. As the Everton culture seems to have a very positive effect at present any change is likely to have a negative effect.
I am sure if pushed I could dig up any number of studies conducted by Harvard Business School to back up this theory.
On a historical point I once read that it was Sunderland who first started recruiting players from outside their immediate vicintiy - and this caused a certain uproar at the time (the 1890s)
In the 1970s I remember my Dad often bemoaning that the Everton team did not really represent Lancashire because most of their players came from outside the region.
12years ago I remember a debate on Lyndon’s Realm of Everton what it would be like to support a team with a majority non-British element. Seems all a bit dated now.
Just seen the YouTube clip of Delph and suddenly really want him at Everton. He looks like a really good player.
Alan ? as I?m the only one to have mentioned that particular group, I assume the last sentence in your post is directed toward me. Let?s be clear. I am not accusing anyone of supporting any political party in either of my posts, please re-read my above 2 posts and outline to me where I have put forward the notion, as you put it ?that espousing such a wish is tantamount to supporting the BNP?such sick notions have no place here.? The closest I came was stating: ?that’s more of a BNP? type affirmation than a Luddite one?? which is technically accurate, as the Luddite movement had nothing to do with nationalities. Notice I do not actually commit any political stand point to any poster or comments.
Sensing Damian?s immediate distaste with possible inferences from my original statement, I moved to clarify my meaning, to which I think, by Damian?s subsequent response he accepts and that I was not making accusations. Then you come wading in with your size 12?s spouting ?sick notions? and ?have no place on here?. Don?t try and score points off me, I am careful as to what I post on here when it comes to other posters, so please do the same.
Football is an area of employment and comes under UK and EU law. It is not justifiable to place one nationality above another. It?s a quagmire I know. On one hand, it?s the English league, we need English players at top level so they can represent the national side and it would be great to have an Everton XI consisting of eleven top international level scousers. On the other hand, it is 2009, that old game of football doesn?t exist anymore, and we live in a multi-cultural cosmopolitan UK. The EPL is officially UEFA?s top league, and so by default, the world?s best league. It?s the most lucrative football league on the planet. Compare with pre 1992. I?m not saying it?s perfect, I?m not saying Everton have it better now (i.e. top 4 finish now is so difficult) but the international mix with the fast English game has got the world watching, and we are receiving more money for a 5th place finish now than ever before. Let?s not muck it up, let?s build on it. COYB.
Sensing Damian?s immediate distaste with possible inferences from my original statement, I moved to clarify my meaning, to which I think, by Damian?s subsequent response he accepts and that I was not making accusations. Then you come wading in with your size 12?s spouting ?sick notions? and ?have no place on here?. Don?t try and score points off me, I am careful as to what I post on here when it comes to other posters, so please do the same.
Football is an area of employment and comes under UK and EU law. It is not justifiable to place one nationality above another. It?s a quagmire I know. On one hand, it?s the English league, we need English players at top level so they can represent the national side and it would be great to have an Everton XI consisting of eleven top international level scousers. On the other hand, it is 2009, that old game of football doesn?t exist anymore, and we live in a multi-cultural cosmopolitan UK. The EPL is officially UEFA?s top league, and so by default, the world?s best league. It?s the most lucrative football league on the planet. Compare with pre 1992. I?m not saying it?s perfect, I?m not saying Everton have it better now (i.e. top 4 finish now is so difficult) but the international mix with the fast English game has got the world watching, and we are receiving more money for a 5th place finish now than ever before. Let?s not muck it up, let?s build on it. COYB.
So team spirit is now being measured by way of Google hits?...thats a new one to me. Ludicrous logic being applied here, as previously mentioned the likes of William Gallas, Bendtner and also Adebayor and Van Persie are hardly what one would describe as true exponents of "Team Spirt"...spoilt brats more like. It’s hard to look beyond our own bunch as the most spirited team in the league.
Did anyone else notice that the fourth Google result for "Arsenal team spirit" is an article about team spirit from Arsenal’s own website. Funny thing is ... it’s talking about Everton’s great team spirit ...
http://www.arsenal.com/news/news-archive/-they-have-spirit-a-never-say-die-attitude-
http://www.arsenal.com/news/news-archive/-they-have-spirit-a-never-say-die-attitude-
This is the sort of 1950’s education that we are taught, and it continues in football despite being taken out of the rest of society.
In the 1950s and earlier (probably later too, but on a lesser scale) English schoolchildern were taught that becasue of the Hot weather, people from foreign countries were ’naturally lazy’, while brits, used to cold weather, have become natural hard-workers over years of evolution i.e work hard because its cold. So british people are harder working than foreign.
This was often used as reasoning to justify imperialism and the growth of the empire, and taking control of other nations. We were helping them, becasue of their natural laziness, and they wouldnt develop otherwise. (spanish empire/ portuguese/ ottoman/ roman/ greek/ persian etc never seemed to have a problem with the weather)
Lazy Foreigners...Tevez, what a lazy bastard, Kuyt ditto, Vidic jesus what a drama queen, Fabregas, Park, Flamini, Mascherano, Tugay, Skrtl, Hangeland, Essien...........
Along with those british workhorses...Owen, Pennant, Wright-Phillips, Jeffers, Bentley, Richardson, Dyer, Koumas...
Having lots of english players is good for media recognition, meeting future fifa quotes and if you get them young generally being cheaper and lower wages
In the 1950s and earlier (probably later too, but on a lesser scale) English schoolchildern were taught that becasue of the Hot weather, people from foreign countries were ’naturally lazy’, while brits, used to cold weather, have become natural hard-workers over years of evolution i.e work hard because its cold. So british people are harder working than foreign.
This was often used as reasoning to justify imperialism and the growth of the empire, and taking control of other nations. We were helping them, becasue of their natural laziness, and they wouldnt develop otherwise. (spanish empire/ portuguese/ ottoman/ roman/ greek/ persian etc never seemed to have a problem with the weather)
Lazy Foreigners...Tevez, what a lazy bastard, Kuyt ditto, Vidic jesus what a drama queen, Fabregas, Park, Flamini, Mascherano, Tugay, Skrtl, Hangeland, Essien...........
Along with those british workhorses...Owen, Pennant, Wright-Phillips, Jeffers, Bentley, Richardson, Dyer, Koumas...
Having lots of english players is good for media recognition, meeting future fifa quotes and if you get them young generally being cheaper and lower wages
Just asked my mum and dad (b. 1944 and 1945 respectively) if they ever got the hot weather and ?naturally lazy? lesson at school. They never. Don?t know what school you went to, Fran.
Arsenal don?t have team spirit, they have a ?clique? and it stinks. Everton, on the other hand, seem to have an openness about them which is not just a Liverpool thing. Nigerian, Spanish, French Polynesian... come one, come all!
As long as they will ride the same bus as the fans to the match. I don?t want none of this foreign aloofness...
Arsenal don?t have team spirit, they have a ?clique? and it stinks. Everton, on the other hand, seem to have an openness about them which is not just a Liverpool thing. Nigerian, Spanish, French Polynesian... come one, come all!
As long as they will ride the same bus as the fans to the match. I don?t want none of this foreign aloofness...
I’d buy that until I watched the FA Cup Final. Hibbert and Osman didn’t turn up, our best players were foreign.
If you’re a player, you want to be at the best and at the top, getting into Europe. Yes there are mercenaries but you could argue England has its fair few. Old Owen, Duff, Nolan and co didn’t put much effort in up at Newcastle did they?
If you’re a player, you want to be at the best and at the top, getting into Europe. Yes there are mercenaries but you could argue England has its fair few. Old Owen, Duff, Nolan and co didn’t put much effort in up at Newcastle did they?
It all sounds like xenophobia to me.
Fran Mitchell, what are you on about? Have you read the previous posts?!
What a load of (sadly predicable) crap being spouted on here in response to what Ii took to be a harmless post giving one Everton Fans own view (and wishes).
Ideally all Everton players would be from within the city bounderies - ok we might accept a player from Kirkby if he is good enough but gone are those days...
Failing this idealistic and unrealistic view we should be allowed to wish for the majoriy of our players to be English or perhaps British as, after all, we are a team based in England and are playing in the English league however There is a current dearth of British players good enough to fill the 92 professional teams currently playing in England. This is why most fans will be happy with foreign players running out for their teams.
With all the money now in the game and with global audience success is paramount for teams.
?Foreigners? are brought into the English leagues for 2 reasons: one, because often they are better than what we can produce; and secondly as some foreigners are cheaper than Brits.
The number one reason to sign a player is ability, followed by attitude and the economics (transfer fee and wages). It shouldn't ever come down to where a player is born or the colour of his skin.
Even my post touches on xenophobia and my long winded post was supposed to be criticising the fact that an innocent post created so much crap and accusations.
Ideally all Everton players would be from within the city bounderies - ok we might accept a player from Kirkby if he is good enough but gone are those days...
Failing this idealistic and unrealistic view we should be allowed to wish for the majoriy of our players to be English or perhaps British as, after all, we are a team based in England and are playing in the English league however There is a current dearth of British players good enough to fill the 92 professional teams currently playing in England. This is why most fans will be happy with foreign players running out for their teams.
With all the money now in the game and with global audience success is paramount for teams.
?Foreigners? are brought into the English leagues for 2 reasons: one, because often they are better than what we can produce; and secondly as some foreigners are cheaper than Brits.
The number one reason to sign a player is ability, followed by attitude and the economics (transfer fee and wages). It shouldn't ever come down to where a player is born or the colour of his skin.
Even my post touches on xenophobia and my long winded post was supposed to be criticising the fact that an innocent post created so much crap and accusations.
Just because a manager has all their players high-five each other before a game doesn?t mean they have great team spirit, Ciaran ? just ask Gallas, or look at Bendtner/Adebayor fighting or Arshavin moaning at his manager's team selection. I?d argue, especially away from home, if they played as more of a team, they?d have done a lot better last season.
All this is ridiculous. It?s a matter of upbringing. Oriental, Anglo, Hispanic, etc. If the kid?s raised correctly he?ll put 100% effort in. He?ll latch on to the cause and pour his heart into it. Plain and simple.
This thread is a joke and frankly stupid.
If a British fan wants more British players in the squad, that?s his / hers prerogative. It?s a tribal game and wanting to see players of a similar background achieve is human. It?s displacement in a psychological sense. That doesn?t mean players from a different culture don?t have the same attributes and can take your beloved team to the pinnacle.
Get over it.
Don?t be simple, and don?t in the same breath fail to recognize the power of psychological association.
This whole post is inane.
Over 40 years ago a dozen or so guys from Govan conquered Europe, even back then when the world was a much bigger place this was a staggering achievement, probably the most remarkable by a British club thus far.
The Sellic fans are immensely proud of that and rightly so. their boys were’nt all world class, but even the less talented brought something vital to the Squad, they were in every sense, a team.
We’re lucky enough to see some of the worlds greatest players in the Prem, but I kinda agree with the article, unless they have been at their respective clubs long enough to form some sort of affinity, they very often act and feel no more than a hired hand.
Imagine we were the "Barca-ton" Alan Kirwin speaks of ? a club every local boy not only dreamed of playing for, but one they wanted to spend their career at.
I would give my right arm for every top class player to come out of this city to make playing for "Barca-ton" his Raison D’Etre.
Am I xenophobic ? am I failing to recognise the power of Psychological association ?
I’m not entirely sure I know what it means, but I hope not . . . .I think
The Sellic fans are immensely proud of that and rightly so. their boys were’nt all world class, but even the less talented brought something vital to the Squad, they were in every sense, a team.
We’re lucky enough to see some of the worlds greatest players in the Prem, but I kinda agree with the article, unless they have been at their respective clubs long enough to form some sort of affinity, they very often act and feel no more than a hired hand.
Imagine we were the "Barca-ton" Alan Kirwin speaks of ? a club every local boy not only dreamed of playing for, but one they wanted to spend their career at.
I would give my right arm for every top class player to come out of this city to make playing for "Barca-ton" his Raison D’Etre.
Am I xenophobic ? am I failing to recognise the power of Psychological association ?
I’m not entirely sure I know what it means, but I hope not . . . .I think
The title of this thread refers to buying English based players and perhps the word 'young' needs to be inserted. If the rumours of EFC trying to buy delph are correct this shows that Moyes is trying to do the right thing. We cannot afford to buy top class players, English or otherwise so we go for the younger perhaps unfinished articles with potential.
If these young players are from overseas it takes them longer to settle in and adjust to our game therefore the need to buy young English or British based players is more prominent. If we buy players from overseas they could take longer to settle in ? approx a season, by which time they are already a third of the way through their contract.
The Big Fella struggled to begin with but actually settled in very quickly in comparison to others.
Alright, Arsenal are definetly not reknowned for their team spirit..and never have been...I made it up.
As for the google thing...That was a response to Mike asking ’who’ thought arsenal had good team spirit...the google list gives various sports media who agree with the assertion (irrespective of anecdotal opinion on which arsenal players are knobs)....you also might notice the bit were I said....’it’s hardly science’.
Mike,
Many ludicrous ideas are commonly held. The fact that you retracted some of your original post, kind of supports my assertion.
As for players British players falling flat on their faces...either on footballing merit or disruptive behaviour - nugent, bale, bellamy, bentley, barton, heskey, jeffers, cadamateri, ...i could go on.
As for Mr Ellis’ suggestion that swamping with other cultures is contrary to English culture...
Perhaps you could support this (with Harvard journals or not) by simply defining English culture....?
I think you’ll realise that English culture is already the mongrel that you suggest would undermine it.
As for the google thing...That was a response to Mike asking ’who’ thought arsenal had good team spirit...the google list gives various sports media who agree with the assertion (irrespective of anecdotal opinion on which arsenal players are knobs)....you also might notice the bit were I said....’it’s hardly science’.
Mike,
Many ludicrous ideas are commonly held. The fact that you retracted some of your original post, kind of supports my assertion.
As for players British players falling flat on their faces...either on footballing merit or disruptive behaviour - nugent, bale, bellamy, bentley, barton, heskey, jeffers, cadamateri, ...i could go on.
As for Mr Ellis’ suggestion that swamping with other cultures is contrary to English culture...
Perhaps you could support this (with Harvard journals or not) by simply defining English culture....?
I think you’ll realise that English culture is already the mongrel that you suggest would undermine it.
I’m not sure what ludicrous notions are commonly held, although I’ll accept that popularity doesn’t make something correct. Debating that something is incorrect is a very long way away from debating if its ’ludicrous’ though.
As for the British players you’ve mentioned, funnily enough I’ll only accept the three who came through the Everton youth system, Jeffers, Cadamarteri and Barton. Of the others, Bale and Nugent are still young and have time on their side, Bellamy might be horrible but has scored goals and added to his team wherever he’s gone, Bentley’s had one bad season and Heskey is England’s current first choice centre-forward. They have may have failed to live up to hype and expectation at times but its hardly their fault that the hype is generated.
I didn’t ’retract’ any of my original post, I cleared up a slightly sloppy scope issue. If you’re saying its ’ludicrous’ that a domestic player be less injury prone then sure, but I can’t see that any of the rest of it comes anywhere near ’ludicrous’.
As for the British players you’ve mentioned, funnily enough I’ll only accept the three who came through the Everton youth system, Jeffers, Cadamarteri and Barton. Of the others, Bale and Nugent are still young and have time on their side, Bellamy might be horrible but has scored goals and added to his team wherever he’s gone, Bentley’s had one bad season and Heskey is England’s current first choice centre-forward. They have may have failed to live up to hype and expectation at times but its hardly their fault that the hype is generated.
I didn’t ’retract’ any of my original post, I cleared up a slightly sloppy scope issue. If you’re saying its ’ludicrous’ that a domestic player be less injury prone then sure, but I can’t see that any of the rest of it comes anywhere near ’ludicrous’.
Yeah, Bellamy added to team spirit by treating Riise as a golf ball.
All blanket statements based on nationality are somewhat ludicrous.
Personality?
Willingness to fit in?
National traits that only the British/English possess?
Absurd.
All blanket statements based on nationality are somewhat ludicrous.
Personality?
Willingness to fit in?
National traits that only the British/English possess?
Absurd.
If we are guna be anal about things, the title of this thread is about "english based players". I think I’m right in saying every single one of our players is based in england, and the north west no less, and any foreign players we bring in, I am sure wont commute from the continent either, but make themselves based over here. Everyone should be happy.
I think the premise of the article should be about shrewd management...you know the kind of stuff - doing your research, judging character, avoid recruiting dickheads..and not buying George Weah’s cousin.
I think that is a general footballing philosophy that everyone could agree on.
I think that is a general footballing philosophy that everyone could agree on.
If we are to survive The Prem, Fa Cup, Carling Cup and UEFA cup next season then we need English based players to survive.
In effect we could be playing up to 70 games next season, we’ll prob lose players to the African cup and we need players who can fill those gaps.
In effect we could be playing up to 70 games next season, we’ll prob lose players to the African cup and we need players who can fill those gaps.
Question? Would it really be the end of the world if Lescott went to Man City and we received Micah Richards and 8-10M? If Lescott actually wants to go then maybe he should, because money is clearly more important to him than what we are building.
When Richards first burst on the scene we would have taken him in a heartbeat ? he was everything you wish for in a defender - powerful, quick and a goal threat at set pieces to boot, but he has gone off the boil at a club where defending has never been a fine art.
He is a full England international and could achieve much with us if he has the heart for doing the work required to learn both his craft and the Everton way. 8-10M to spend on the right hand side (noting that Richards can play right back) would not go astray and we have Rodwell coming through as a centre-back.
A return of £3-5M pounds and a young England international on top of what we paid 3 years ago is real profit and not to be sneezed at when you are short of a quid ? whether you like to admit your lack of money to yourself or not.
Telegraph suggests today that Sporting Lisbon want Nani back, and could offer Moutinho in a cash plus player exchange.
If there is any truth here, if nothing else it shows that they are prepared to let him go. With Ronaldo off I cannot see them selling Nani as well so who knows where Moutinho could end up...
We MUST, MUST, ensure that we get a RIGHT BACK this year.
It seems a shame that so many people here are so disparaging regarding Arsenal?s so-called lack of team spirit and this debate about team spirit and foreign/British players.
Of course, by their own exhilarating standards of their great double winning teams, they are currently undergoing something of a "crisis" (did they finish fourth?). But it would be important to note that, although they did indeed play without British players from time to time, Mr Wenger brought many of these foreign players to the club as youngsters and then on through the ranks at Arsenal.
In other words, he "enculturated" them into his and Arsenal?s way of doing things ? and what a joy they were to behold in their glory days. Remember that even the great Henry did not come to Arsenal as a ready made jewel.
It may well be that the crucial element in team spirit (besides the adrenalin of being successful!) is the time needed to nurture players into the right frame of mind/approach/identity with club, locality etc and to bond them together within the whole culture of the club. It would seem that this can be done with players of any nationality so long as the other factors are in place, most noticeably the football acumen of the manager and the coaching staff.
Foreign or not, experienced or not, there would be few players at Arsenal who were/are not immeasurably better for their time with Mr Wenger, who as a European may well have been better placed than many to communicate his thoughts etc to his squad.
Of course, it would be common sense to suggest that generally a base of British players in most cases makes sense for obvious reasons of speed of communication both in training/coaching terms as well as on the field of play itself as Everton seem to have proved so well in these more recent seasons. It could be that one of the factors in Everton?s loss to Chelsea in the final was the absence of Jagielka at the back and the subsequent loss of his organisational ability etc that he so often communicates so well to his partner centre-back and defenders and which was sadly missed at crucial stages of that match.
On a personal level, after watching Everton for 55 years, I still find it amazing that we are unable to unearth and nurture far more talent from the vast Merseyside/NW amateur football reservoir than we have done in the past. Do not underestimate the power and the joy of being able to watch home grown lads ably perform for their home town club. It is still worth aspiring to and striving for.
Christ - give the man a break. He had a small point that he aired and some want to send him to a Klu Klux Klan reunion do. I’d like a team of Rooney’s but it ain’t gonna happen - why? - because there ain’t enough old hookers dressed in rubber anymore. Believe me I’ve looked...
Yeah!!
Fran Mitchell, I advised your parents not to send you to the Nick Griffin Preparatory School. Pity they didn?t listen...
Back to the real world:
...of transfer gossip. Fabian Delph looks class, although admittedly I’ve not seen a right lot of him.
I did get to go to the Championship Play-Off final though, and Kyle Naughton (and Kyle Walker for that matter) looked absolutely class. We should sign one of them to play right back (I’m not sure which is which, but they’re 18 and 19 and both right footed attacking full backs). We could even try to sign both and play them in tandem on the right.
...of transfer gossip. Fabian Delph looks class, although admittedly I’ve not seen a right lot of him.
I did get to go to the Championship Play-Off final though, and Kyle Naughton (and Kyle Walker for that matter) looked absolutely class. We should sign one of them to play right back (I’m not sure which is which, but they’re 18 and 19 and both right footed attacking full backs). We could even try to sign both and play them in tandem on the right.
Well well, by the time I got to the end of that, I had to go back and read the original post again cos I’d forgotten what the point was!!...
I kind of see where the OP is going, and kind of agree myself that a good base of British players, and foreigners who are established Premier League players, is the way forward. For example, do we not all think that Fellaini will be a lot better once he has cracked the language? And by this, I mean in the way he fits into the team (before some idiot questions how a player can have more ability cos he speaks English).
I have a question in relation to this post - would you be happy if Everton had a foreign manager (lets assume the man can’t speak English when he takes the helm?) I personally would feel that we would lose some of our identity, but it’s just my opinion. I think your answer to this would see which side of the fence you sit on with regard to the original topic of debate.
I kind of see where the OP is going, and kind of agree myself that a good base of British players, and foreigners who are established Premier League players, is the way forward. For example, do we not all think that Fellaini will be a lot better once he has cracked the language? And by this, I mean in the way he fits into the team (before some idiot questions how a player can have more ability cos he speaks English).
I have a question in relation to this post - would you be happy if Everton had a foreign manager (lets assume the man can’t speak English when he takes the helm?) I personally would feel that we would lose some of our identity, but it’s just my opinion. I think your answer to this would see which side of the fence you sit on with regard to the original topic of debate.
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There is another facet to this arguement, however: Whenever I read transfer rumours linking us with the likes of M?Bia (again), Obinna (again), I hope and pray they turn out to be tabloid space fillers, purely because I don?t think we have a large enough squad to carry a sizeable African contingent.
Before you jump in, this isn?t a mentalist BNP "Send 'em all home!" rant. This January / February coming, we stand to lose the Yak, Pienaar, Joey Yobo, and young Victor for anything up to 2 months to AFCoN. This is bad enough, without exacerbating the problem by buying more players that we know will be away for 10% of their playing time with us.