The Mail Bag
What ever happened to JPK?
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Just a quick post guys to ask what everyone thinks about little John Paul Kissock being released? Now I may be mistaken but there were murmurings on here and in the press that this boy was going to be a decent footballer and certainly one that we would be watching in the Royal Blue of Everton.
As I say, a while ago, I remember Kissock being linked with Chelsea and a reported fee In excess of the hundreds of thousands was being touted as an attempt to un-settle one of our most promising youngsters. Does anybody else think it is slightly strange that this lad has gone?
As I understand it, his stature and strength were being questioned with regard to him being able to handle the rough and tumble of the Premier League (at this stage of his career) but Moyes gave Ozzy the chance to build up and ready himself for it; did he not view Kissock with the same regard?
For me this actually poses a couple of questions:
- Firstly, is this about getting the wage bill down just that little bit more so we can afford to build the first team? If so, this could be seen as another damning indictment of the terrible financial situation we face at Goodison.
- Secondly, could this be viewed as an 'Everton on the up' scenario? It may be that Moyes already has real quality players lined up to bolster our ranks (I live in hope) and he didn't want to squander the the talent of a young footballer that he wouldn't be able to promise first team football to for the foreseable future; again, given our recent financial plight, I can't see that being too plausible!
I always read with pleasure the posts on here so here is one of my own, I leave it open for discussion.
Luke Berry, Posted 14/06/2009 at 18:58:45
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Michael Kenrick
My goodness, what a fertile imagination. I believe at one stage they thought he was going to be good enough to make the grade... turns out, after a poor season and a dismal loan spell, they have effectively written him off. It happens eventually to something like 95% of the Everton Academy players. C'est la vie...
I doubt John Paul Kissock?s wages made any impact on the club's financial status... so therefore you're right ? the standard of our team has gone up. I view this as good news as Moyes is taking a more active role in youth development, investing in world as well as domestic talent.
At each level of the club, only those capable of breaking into a top 4 side will survive the chop. I wish the boy well and who knows, he might be back in a few years... never say never.
At each level of the club, only those capable of breaking into a top 4 side will survive the chop. I wish the boy well and who knows, he might be back in a few years... never say never.
He?s gone because we have better youngsters coming through and nobody else wanted to take him.
Sad... but he?s had his chance now it?s somebody elses time.
He may well go on to develop elsewhere and then we will probably BUY him back as we did with Jags and Baines if he shows merit...
I for one am still waiting for the incoming squad re-inforcements that we have been promised and I will definitely NOT be happy if these include the likes of Owen and Smith, who are well past their best. I don't want us becoming a retirement home for has beens.
I feel that we tend to play brinkmanship every season and seeing players go without any transfer movements in makes me a bit nervous. I would prefer to see players arriving before departures are allowed to go... it seems sensible to bed new players in and see how they fit in before letting the likes of Valente etc depart the club.
I really hope we don't end up in the state we were after the USA trip last season when our bench resembled a super market creche. Our squad is tiny and with the extra commitments of Europa Cup football this season, we really need a sizeable influx of new blood to bolster and hopefully improve our team. COYB
It?s not necessarily the end of the line for him... many discarded Toffees have popped up later at other clubs and been successful. Daniel Fox looks like a player worth in excess of £2 million already. Good luck to JPK.
I saw him play (if I remember correctly) in the friendly at PNE last summer, and he didn’t look all that. Echoing what others have said, I don’t think he is good enough to be challenging for a first team berth with us, so has been released to try elsewhere.
A quick note on squad numbers, etc.: whilst it is glaringly obvious that we need reinforcements, of all the players released, only 1 has had any serious first team action this season, and that was Castillo, who did not look the business for my money. With more youngsters coming through, and 3 or 4 players through the ’in’ door, I am confident we will have the squad needed for next season.
A quick note on squad numbers, etc.: whilst it is glaringly obvious that we need reinforcements, of all the players released, only 1 has had any serious first team action this season, and that was Castillo, who did not look the business for my money. With more youngsters coming through, and 3 or 4 players through the ’in’ door, I am confident we will have the squad needed for next season.
Sorry for transgressing but does anybody have an update on the progress of Jose Baxter? Another one of our ’hot’ prospects who did quite well in pre-season last year, but has since disappeared off the radar a little.
His contract was up and they weren't going to offer him another probably in the knowledge that he wasn't going to make it, Blackpool, Stockport or Chester will probably take him on and he will drift about the lower leagues. Moyes usually doesn't get these things too wrong. We need to get someone signed up soon though, I can't stand another summer like last one.
Hmm. I think Michael Kenrick speaks for the majority. Some make it, some don?t. At some stage a decision has to be made. What?s not to understand?
This action poses no questions whatsoever. There is no mystery or subtext. Our financial position is well documented & irrelevant. If he was deemed good enough by the people that know & matter then he would be still be here.
Such is football & such is life. This really is a nothing story.
This action poses no questions whatsoever. There is no mystery or subtext. Our financial position is well documented & irrelevant. If he was deemed good enough by the people that know & matter then he would be still be here.
Such is football & such is life. This really is a nothing story.
I watched him warm up a couple of times last season and to say that he is diminutive would be an understatement. The Premier League is full of power houses in the form of monsters like Essien, thankfully Jack Rodwell has the strength and stature that will hopefully see him continue to develop into the finished article.
Richard Clark, Baxter was on the bench for the FA Cup Final. He was playing early in the season then got injured.
I don't think you can compare Osman and JPK. Osman is by far the better player and for those that might remember was a huge hit when he went on loan, particularly with Derby (Championship at the time) ? they were desperate to sign him full time. JPK hasn't cut the mustard at Gretna nor Macclesfield, and hasn?t shown the level Osman is capable of (at times!!).
I think Baxter was injured for about 3-4 months mid-season and has really only recently come back into the reserves. According to Ray Hall (Youth Development Manager) recently, he still sees Baxter and Rodwell as virtually equal potentials. So hopefully Baxter will come through next year... and maybe Wallace?
I think Baxter was injured for about 3-4 months mid-season and has really only recently come back into the reserves. According to Ray Hall (Youth Development Manager) recently, he still sees Baxter and Rodwell as virtually equal potentials. So hopefully Baxter will come through next year... and maybe Wallace?
Thanks guys. I’ve been at sea for the past 3 months so have just been catching up on things.
Can anyone confirm whether John Irving got released or not ? seen his name mentioned on some lists and not on others.
The same happened with Mark Hughes as well...who I thought was developing into a cracking centre half..
and Vidarsson (who i think Moyes bought)..and what about scott spencer..
Our academy is a mystery to me.
and Vidarsson (who i think Moyes bought)..and what about scott spencer..
Our academy is a mystery to me.
The senior squad midfield listed on the OS now consists of 9 players. This includes Mikel (Nov/Dec?) and James Wallace.
Kissock’s departure must mean that to get back to the 12 we had last season at least 3 have to arrive, 4 if we discount Mikel for the moment (and Steven has to get home safely yet). If Moyes is going to expand the squad this means 5 ’new’ midfielders have got to appear from somewhere.
Kissock’s departure must mean that to get back to the 12 we had last season at least 3 have to arrive, 4 if we discount Mikel for the moment (and Steven has to get home safely yet). If Moyes is going to expand the squad this means 5 ’new’ midfielders have got to appear from somewhere.
Joey Barton on loan!
Talking about youngsters, my mate plays for Leeds and he tells me Delph is deffo coming to us. I cannot name the player in question but it's all done and dusted.
One person?s mystery is another?s reality. As to why our academy should prove a mystery to anybody? Well, that is a bloody mystery. It exists with one purpose in mind. I won?t insult anyone?s intelligence by mentioning what it is.
At every stage of our young players? involvement, and certainly at the end of every season, an appraisal will of course be done as to their rate of development against the physical and mental demands of top class football. It?s a simple but necessary triage. It?s business. If they are not regarded as potential contenders by the age of 18/19 then it?s in nobody?s interests to keep them at the club with little or no chance of first team activity.
By the simple law of averages, many more will fail than will succeed, unless of course a very unusual crop of kids emerges (e.g. Man Utd 15 years ago). Rather than be mystified by our academy, I see it as one of our strengths. We appear to bring forward many more players than the vast majority of EPL clubs.
Moyes?s recent activity acquiring the young German & American guys suggests a more internationalist / Wengeresque approach to our youth strategy to augment the local/national work we already do. Our standards are increasing all the time. There?s a message there.
Incidentally, JPK was not in the academy he was in the senior squad. Thus the Academy had done its job in developing the kid & getting him into the senior squad. After 1 year there, it was decided (not by the Academy) that he may not be good/strong enough.
Two last things, both very important.
The first team squad as was (before the current departures) had no less than 14 players who either came from the academy or were bought as young players to be developed (such as Gosling). Only 14 out of a squad of 29! FInd the mystery in that.
And those who find fault with the fact that Everton might reject a player at 18, only to spend a few million to buy him back when he?s 24 or so (i.e. Jags) are as usual completely missing the point. Unless of course their point is that our academy should keep players until their mid 20?s on the basis that they may be late developers (as some clearly are).
Mystery my arse. Our Academy, like most things at the club, is doing just fine.
At every stage of our young players? involvement, and certainly at the end of every season, an appraisal will of course be done as to their rate of development against the physical and mental demands of top class football. It?s a simple but necessary triage. It?s business. If they are not regarded as potential contenders by the age of 18/19 then it?s in nobody?s interests to keep them at the club with little or no chance of first team activity.
By the simple law of averages, many more will fail than will succeed, unless of course a very unusual crop of kids emerges (e.g. Man Utd 15 years ago). Rather than be mystified by our academy, I see it as one of our strengths. We appear to bring forward many more players than the vast majority of EPL clubs.
Moyes?s recent activity acquiring the young German & American guys suggests a more internationalist / Wengeresque approach to our youth strategy to augment the local/national work we already do. Our standards are increasing all the time. There?s a message there.
Incidentally, JPK was not in the academy he was in the senior squad. Thus the Academy had done its job in developing the kid & getting him into the senior squad. After 1 year there, it was decided (not by the Academy) that he may not be good/strong enough.
Two last things, both very important.
The first team squad as was (before the current departures) had no less than 14 players who either came from the academy or were bought as young players to be developed (such as Gosling). Only 14 out of a squad of 29! FInd the mystery in that.
And those who find fault with the fact that Everton might reject a player at 18, only to spend a few million to buy him back when he?s 24 or so (i.e. Jags) are as usual completely missing the point. Unless of course their point is that our academy should keep players until their mid 20?s on the basis that they may be late developers (as some clearly are).
Mystery my arse. Our Academy, like most things at the club, is doing just fine.
Well thanks for clearing that up Alan. Never has one man taken so many words to say so little.
Perhaps your infinite wisdom could explain the Vidarsson or Scott Spencer ?mysteries?...
Perhaps your infinite wisdom could explain the Vidarsson or Scott Spencer ?mysteries?...
Ciaran, as pointed out by others, players who are not thought good enough don?t make it. As MK points out, 95% do not make the grade, not just at EFC but across the PL. I read G Hoddle saying it is the worst job in football, at the end of each season, to tell the young players they were being released.
Yes Rob. I get that bit.
Just seems a bit perplexing whenever the player being booted out was touted as the next best thing (JPK)... or, in some of our cases, we actually brought the player for a large fee (Vidarsson)... or even the case where the player has already been in the first team.
Mark Hughes (not him!) was the big mystery for me; he?d actually started some first team games and looked really comfortable on the ball... and a decent defender.
Anyway, this is not a witch hunt... obviously the club and coaches have their reasons, whether we can appreciate them or not.
Just seems a bit perplexing whenever the player being booted out was touted as the next best thing (JPK)... or, in some of our cases, we actually brought the player for a large fee (Vidarsson)... or even the case where the player has already been in the first team.
Mark Hughes (not him!) was the big mystery for me; he?d actually started some first team games and looked really comfortable on the ball... and a decent defender.
Anyway, this is not a witch hunt... obviously the club and coaches have their reasons, whether we can appreciate them or not.
These players are being / have been released because they are not considered good enough to play for Everton Football Club. It’s not rocket science.
Move them on and bring through the next batch of youngsters.
Move them on and bring through the next batch of youngsters.
Trevor Lynes: "I for one am still waiting for the incoming squad re-inforcements that we have been promised>"
I don?t recall us being promised anything... do you work in the media by any chance?
I don?t recall us being promised anything... do you work in the media by any chance?
Saw JPK at the semi-final, I thought he was looking like somebody with an uncertain future. Was not surprised to see him released. We demand that Everton FC aim to be a top 4 team so the fans will be wanting big-money buys; not much chance for young players when the fans on these pages want more and more signings and then more signings.
Aah Ciaran. An Evertonian Dan Brown. A man who sees mysteries where there are none, and ignores information that doesn?t match his mystery.
What?s the deal with Spencer & Vidarsson? WIll you simply keep on naming ex-Academy players until you run out of vaccuous red herrings?
I guess the main question is, will Dan Brown ever solve the mystery of Everton?s Academy..???
What?s the deal with Spencer & Vidarsson? WIll you simply keep on naming ex-Academy players until you run out of vaccuous red herrings?
I guess the main question is, will Dan Brown ever solve the mystery of Everton?s Academy..???
I agree with Ciaran about Hughes in a way... he did look quite promising... but saying that, he was good, he?d be playing for a better team than Northampton Town at the moment!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finch_Farm
That link contains a list of former academy players and their current clubs.
That link contains a list of former academy players and their current clubs.
Mike Oates, sorry have to pick you up on the JPK didn?t make it at Gretna statement, I saw him play for them in the SPL whilst he was on loan as I work up in Scotland and he was their best player hands down, they didn?t pick him up as they went bust.
At the time Osman was called back from Derby, who were desperate to sign him, we had a painfully thin squad and little if any fit and healthy midfielders to play a game; sounds familiar to our squad towards the tail end of last season.
At the time Osman was called back from Derby, who were desperate to sign him, we had a painfully thin squad and little if any fit and healthy midfielders to play a game; sounds familiar to our squad towards the tail end of last season.
As many have pointed out, we don?t know what goes on during training but someone at Everton has decided ? right here, right now ? he won?t add enough to the club to stay. If he develops and we end up buying him back, then we buy him back; if he doesn?t, we don?t.
"What ever happened to JPK?"
It was the second shooter on the grassy knoll ...
It was the second shooter on the grassy knoll ...
I’ll take that as a ’no’ then Alan, shall I.....?
By the way, the ’Evertonian Dan Brown’...I like that. Especially from someone who tortures the writen word to the point of pretentsion.
I’ll look forward to you next installment.
By the way, the ’Evertonian Dan Brown’...I like that. Especially from someone who tortures the writen word to the point of pretentsion.
I’ll look forward to you next installment.
Sorry Ciaran, did I miss an insightful question of yours?
What are you saying "no" to on my behalf?
What are you saying "no" to on my behalf?
JPK didn?t look like a player, didn?t impress Moyes enough and neither did Hughes etc. All this ?touted as the next big thing? lark is pure nonsense. Wayne Rooney, Michael Owen etc were touted as the next big thing. JPK was maybe mentioned as a kid who could mature into a decent player and that's the height of it.
Hmmm... Concise, succinct and to the point...... What have you done with the real Alan Kirwin?
Question? Yes, indeed.... That would be the one you repeated in your response -yet failed to answer in preference of a high browed dismissal...
I?ll repeat it in full format - so you can scoff at it in its entirety: Do you not think there?s something mysterious about an Academy system which scouts and spends significant amounts of money on players who they subsequently turf out?
Question? Yes, indeed.... That would be the one you repeated in your response -yet failed to answer in preference of a high browed dismissal...
I?ll repeat it in full format - so you can scoff at it in its entirety: Do you not think there?s something mysterious about an Academy system which scouts and spends significant amounts of money on players who they subsequently turf out?
@Alan Kirwin -- spot on.
@Ciaran -- Can you please name a single academy system in the world at the top level that doesn’t operate in the same way ours does?
I’m absolutely mystified at your questions.
@Ciaran -- Can you please name a single academy system in the world at the top level that doesn’t operate in the same way ours does?
I’m absolutely mystified at your questions.
Mark,
I guess I don?t really expect players who have been bought for decent money (rather than merely brought through) by the Academy, to be turfed out two years later...
I guess I don?t really expect players who have been bought for decent money (rather than merely brought through) by the Academy, to be turfed out two years later...
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