The Mail Bag
Founder members
Comments (27)
Wondering if anyone can answer these little teasers, as I'm too lazy/busy (delete as appropriate) to research it for myself?..
With Burnley and Wolves joining the top flight for next season, that's a total of 7 of the Football League's founder members occupying spaces in the top division (ourselves, Villa, Bolton, Blackburn, Burnley, Stoke and Wolves)
Questions are:
1) When was the last time all twelve were in the top flight together?
2) Is 7 the record since the Premier League started in 1991?
No prizes apart from the satisfaction of being cleverer than me.
Cheers!
David McGrain, Posted 18/06/2009 at 10:39:04
Comments
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I think world cup winning nations have little gold stars on their shirts to denote their wins.
European cup winners the same.
For a long time, I’ve felt all the founder members should have something denoting our status.
Nothing too outlandish obviously.
Maybe the letters ’FM’ in subtle six-inch high gold lettering on the left breast of the shirt.
Or even better the word ’ORIGINALS’.
It’d be fun in Derbies.
Tim could could point to it and say to Stevie G "You wouldn’t be here if it wasn’t for us you shower of mongrels" etc.
Scoring against Chelsea and pointing to it in front of their fans I’d like to see as well.
Most importantly, I’m sure it would irritate ’them’ (which is reason enough for doing anything).
Another thing I’d like (while we’re here) is a little...erm... symbol denoting our Cup winners Cup win.
Maybe a star...but three times the size of the Champions League one.
Or even better six little stars in a line.
COYFM’s!!!
European cup winners the same.
For a long time, I’ve felt all the founder members should have something denoting our status.
Nothing too outlandish obviously.
Maybe the letters ’FM’ in subtle six-inch high gold lettering on the left breast of the shirt.
Or even better the word ’ORIGINALS’.
It’d be fun in Derbies.
Tim could could point to it and say to Stevie G "You wouldn’t be here if it wasn’t for us you shower of mongrels" etc.
Scoring against Chelsea and pointing to it in front of their fans I’d like to see as well.
Most importantly, I’m sure it would irritate ’them’ (which is reason enough for doing anything).
Another thing I’d like (while we’re here) is a little...erm... symbol denoting our Cup winners Cup win.
Maybe a star...but three times the size of the Champions League one.
Or even better six little stars in a line.
COYFM’s!!!
Eugene ? many a true word spoken in jest.
I?m afraid it's too late for the Cup Winners? Cup, but Founder Member will never go away. We quite properly have 1878 up there, so why not something about ?Founders - 1888? as a scroll (or whatever its called) below the badge (like the RS have "A Cheesy Song From A Naff Musical" over the non-copyrighted Liver Bird).
Thinking about the CWCup accolade - it would have to be sizable to include the phrase: "Extra time, penalties and cheating goalkeepers not required."
I?m afraid it's too late for the Cup Winners? Cup, but Founder Member will never go away. We quite properly have 1878 up there, so why not something about ?Founders - 1888? as a scroll (or whatever its called) below the badge (like the RS have "A Cheesy Song From A Naff Musical" over the non-copyrighted Liver Bird).
Thinking about the CWCup accolade - it would have to be sizable to include the phrase: "Extra time, penalties and cheating goalkeepers not required."
The last season all 12 founder members were in the top flight was 1892/93.
Stoke came back after their season away and it was only when Accrington were relegated that the ’originals’ were broken up.
This original Accrington club refused to play in the second division and went bust a few years later. They were nothing to do with Accrington Stanley so there is no chance of all the founder members ever playing together again in the top flight.
Stoke came back after their season away and it was only when Accrington were relegated that the ’originals’ were broken up.
This original Accrington club refused to play in the second division and went bust a few years later. They were nothing to do with Accrington Stanley so there is no chance of all the founder members ever playing together again in the top flight.
Nice item David. Doubt the established media will pick up on the fact (according to Gergo) we have a record number of FM?s in the Premier League this season, as it omits completely the Sky 4 lot. As for Eugene?s suggestion, I?m in agreement! Can?t we get "Founder Members" stitched under the badge (like you get on Cup Final day)?? And what about a nice big banner at GP showing we were League Champions before that lot were even formed....
In the spirit of taking this seriously, would it be that hard to get Founder Members put on the shirts? I think it's a really good idea... especially after having put up with all the gloating Chelsea glory supporters at Wembley!
Surely we?d only have to convince the other founder members to do it as well... and they?d probably be up for it. A petition should be started I say.. or at least a Facebook group!
Here we go.. I made a facebook group! Let's see how far we can take this!
http://www.facebook.com/groups/edit.php?gid=93156303761#/group.php?gid=93156303761
If you have a facebook account sign up for this and send the link to your other founder member supporter friends (not just Everton but all the others as well).
http://www.facebook.com/groups/edit.php?gid=93156303761#/group.php?gid=93156303761
If you have a facebook account sign up for this and send the link to your other founder member supporter friends (not just Everton but all the others as well).
Brilliant idea re the Founder Member recognition and, while we?re at it, bring back the bird!!! Not the cartoon Liver duck our country cousins use but the one on the City?s coat of arms and our early strips and medals
Slightly off topic but I recall, as a youngster, being allowed to go to numerous away games as there were so many Lancashire teams in the First Division. In 62-63, for instance, ourselves, the other lot, Man City, Man Utd, Burnley, Blackburn, Blackpool and Bolton... Wolves was an easy journey, as well.
Eugene- lovely idea. Mark Jardell, see you on Facebook !
Phil - I wish you were right, but I think there is no solid evidence for the badge you’re thinking of. This could change, of course.
Merchant Taylors of Crosby probably gave their colours to FC Barcelona, but again, pinning down the real historical evidence has so far proved to be impossible. Mind you, in these ’enquiries’ there is usually someone else trying to prove you wrong to further their own cause.
So we don’t give up.
Merchant Taylors of Crosby probably gave their colours to FC Barcelona, but again, pinning down the real historical evidence has so far proved to be impossible. Mind you, in these ’enquiries’ there is usually someone else trying to prove you wrong to further their own cause.
So we don’t give up.
Once again, I’ve decided to take this even further and set up an online petition... so you can join the facebook group as well as put you name down on here! If there’s enough signatures we can send this to the clubs... if only one of them goes for it straight away the others will all follow!
http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/footballleaguefoundermember
http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/footballleaguefoundermember
I can?t see the Football league Founder Members being particularly recognised seeing as we are no longer members. "Modern" history began less than 20 years ago with the breakaway to form the Prem & those are the only Founder Members that may get any recognition.
Tim could could point to it and say to Stevie G "You wouldn?t be here if it wasn?t for us you shower of mongrels" etc.
"shower of mongrels" - thank you for that, kind sir. I’ll soon finish cleaning my screen. Priceless.
"shower of mongrels" - thank you for that, kind sir. I’ll soon finish cleaning my screen. Priceless.
Keith...I’m on the case with help from the David France Collection
Don’t forget the other Founder Members that are not in the Premier League. They should have the right to include it on their badge too.
Thanks everyone for your enthusiastic and knowledgeable responses to the original questions. I’m all for the campaign to recognise the Founders too, so good on you for going the extra step Mark.
I hate to be the negative one but Dennis has made an important point. What are the seven clubs founder members of exactly? The football league.
I’m afraid we no longer play in the football league, we signed up to a breakaway league that compromised and reached a promotion/relegation agreement with the football league.
For any of this to happen officially would mean the 1992-93 clubs being the ’founder members’ of the Premier League, so all the Sky 4 would get to wear it (as would Swindon if memory serves).
I’m afraid we no longer play in the football league, we signed up to a breakaway league that compromised and reached a promotion/relegation agreement with the football league.
For any of this to happen officially would mean the 1992-93 clubs being the ’founder members’ of the Premier League, so all the Sky 4 would get to wear it (as would Swindon if memory serves).
Keith...here’s a link with a bit more info
http://www.toffeeweb.com/season/07-08/comment/mailbag/mailbagitem.asp?submissionID=5313
and Mike, you’re right but seeing as how football was invented in 1992, I wouldn’t object to something like FM 1888 FM 1992 on the shirt...as long as Pienaar could still run with the extra weight
http://www.toffeeweb.com/season/07-08/comment/mailbag/mailbagitem.asp?submissionID=5313
and Mike, you’re right but seeing as how football was invented in 1992, I wouldn’t object to something like FM 1888 FM 1992 on the shirt...as long as Pienaar could still run with the extra weight
I’m noticing a bit of negativity regarding something being put on the shirts of the founder members. I know that the premier league was started in 1992 and therefore we no longer play in the football league... but Liverpool put 5 stars on their shirt and 4 of those are from the old European league... Man Utd and Liverpool went on about winning 18 titles.. how many of them are from the old league? If we’re gonna start over again as of 1992 that would make Chelsea a bigger club than us!
The Premier League is just a name given to the top divison in 1992 by a TV company... Everton are founder members of the group of teams that created association football.. if it wasn’t for those 12 clubs the premier league, FA Cup, Champions leauge and everything else never would have happened
The Premier League is just a name given to the top divison in 1992 by a TV company... Everton are founder members of the group of teams that created association football.. if it wasn’t for those 12 clubs the premier league, FA Cup, Champions leauge and everything else never would have happened
Mark I don’t disagree with anything you say, I was just thinking in terms of the guys who run the Premier League allowing the acknowledgement when, as Phil says, they want us to think that football started in 1992.
Personally I’d be very happy with the FM 1888 and FM 1992 embroidered somewhere on the shirt, there wouldn’t be many clubs with both (only us and Villa?) but it would require the Premier League guys to acknowledge something they often seem reluctant to acknowledge.
Personally I’d be very happy with the FM 1888 and FM 1992 embroidered somewhere on the shirt, there wouldn’t be many clubs with both (only us and Villa?) but it would require the Premier League guys to acknowledge something they often seem reluctant to acknowledge.
Mike - there are 3 founder members of the football and premier leagues, us, Villa and Blackburn.
Plus, I disagree with your comment: "What are the seven clubs founder members of exactly? The football league...I¡¯m afraid we no longer play in the football league". The founder member status points to not just us being founder members of the ’football league’, but the first football league in england, of which, the Premier League is an example of. I know we all broke away, but we should champion our status as founders of the first professional football league in England and the oldest football competion in the world.
Plus, I disagree with your comment: "What are the seven clubs founder members of exactly? The football league...I¡¯m afraid we no longer play in the football league". The founder member status points to not just us being founder members of the ’football league’, but the first football league in england, of which, the Premier League is an example of. I know we all broke away, but we should champion our status as founders of the first professional football league in England and the oldest football competion in the world.
The ’comment’ is a factually correct statement. The Football League (as I should have written it before) has been a continuous entity, separate from the FA, since 1888. It continues to exist, and we don’t play in it. Newcastle will next year.
I agree that we should champion our status as founding members of professional league football in England, all I’m saying is that the guys at the Premier League are not the same as the guys at The Football League and may not want the acknowledgement on the shirts as they are from a different, if not quite rival, organisation.
We could, of course, just put it on anyway, I don’t know if there are any regulations against this, but we’d look a bit odd if the others didn’t all join in.
I agree that we should champion our status as founding members of professional league football in England, all I’m saying is that the guys at the Premier League are not the same as the guys at The Football League and may not want the acknowledgement on the shirts as they are from a different, if not quite rival, organisation.
We could, of course, just put it on anyway, I don’t know if there are any regulations against this, but we’d look a bit odd if the others didn’t all join in.
"Founders 1888" tastefully embroidered under the badge would be excellent. If the ignorant sods who follow other clubs question what it means - or its significance - they could be politely told and put firmly in their place.
Phil - Ta, I’ll catch up as up asap.
Phil - Ta, I’ll catch up as up asap.
Just to follow on from Mike’s last point... does the Premier league in fact have a say in what goes on a shirt? Surely its up to the club... we didn’t use to have 1878 on the badge and no one stopped us from putting that on.
I think if it was an emblem showing another competition then yes, I’d think they’d object... but if its something which could be seen as being part of the kit which all 12 clubs adopt the surely the premier league can’t stop it. the 12 clubs cover not only the premier league but other divisions as well!
I’ve been writing to the other club’s fanzine sites by the way, as well as other Everton ones linking the petition I set up, which is this again if you’ve not already signed it!
http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/footballleaguefoundermember
I’m hoping that like I say, if one club goes for it then all the others will follow just like how the world cup winners started putting them on thier shirts after Brazil did it!
I think if it was an emblem showing another competition then yes, I’d think they’d object... but if its something which could be seen as being part of the kit which all 12 clubs adopt the surely the premier league can’t stop it. the 12 clubs cover not only the premier league but other divisions as well!
I’ve been writing to the other club’s fanzine sites by the way, as well as other Everton ones linking the petition I set up, which is this again if you’ve not already signed it!
http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/footballleaguefoundermember
I’m hoping that like I say, if one club goes for it then all the others will follow just like how the world cup winners started putting them on thier shirts after Brazil did it!
Cheers, Keith
This link shows some of our winners? badges with the Liver bird...on the left is the 1914/15 Champions medal which also depicts the red rose of Lancashire
http://www.toffeeweb.com/club/stuff/france/status.asp
This link shows some of our winners? badges with the Liver bird...on the left is the 1914/15 Champions medal which also depicts the red rose of Lancashire
http://www.toffeeweb.com/club/stuff/france/status.asp
All of Everton’s league opponents in October are fellow founder members.
Mark - You seem to have forgotten Grand Old Team so I?ll post it for you.
© ToffeeWeb
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1 Posted 18/06/2009 at 17:12:49
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2. Yes, it’s a record.