The Mail Bag
Founder Member Petition
Comments (19)
Some of you may know there has been a bit of chat in the mailbag recently regarding "Founder Member" being printed on the shirts of the 12 founder members of the Football League. I created an online petition regarding this, which reads as follows (I'm forwarding the same message to all the of fanzines of all 12 teams in the hope that if one goes for it they all will!):
Next season in the Premier League marks the first time 7 of the founder members of the Football League being present, which is a record! They are Everton, Aston Villa, Bolton Wanderers, Blackburn Rovers, Burnley, Stoke City and Wolverhampton Wanderers. Therefore I think there should be a petition to have "Founder Member" printed on the shirts of all those teams. Here is an online petition that you can sign. There?s a Facebook group to join as well!
The 12 football league founder members are:
- Accrington
- Aston Villa
- Blackburn Rovers
- Bolton Wanderers
- Burnley
- Derby County
- Everton
- Notts County
- Preston North End
- Stoke City
- West Bromwich Albion
- Wolverhampton Wanderers
So anyone who is a supporter of one of the clubs above, or any team for that matter who agrees, sign up for this and send the link to other fans and fan websites etc as well. Then click on this link and sign the petition. Once we have enough signatures I'll send it to the clubs and see what they say!
For those of you who have not already signed up to this, do so now!
Mark Jardell, Posted 19/06/2009 at 14:45:02
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Ahhh that?s lovely, Mark. I?m sure it will be a big success. all the best.
...
Hang on though... I can see this converstaion occurring up and down the land:
"Founder Members" ? Hmmmm... Founder members of what?"
"The Football League!"
Alrite.. cool. But weren?t there more than seven?
"Yes, there were 12! [flashes aforementioned list] and now 7 are back in the Premier League... isn?t it exciting?"
"What about teams like Man Utd, Arsenal, Chelsea, Liverpool, Spurs... I think you?ve forgotten them."
"Ah no, that?s the whole point: those Johhny-come-latelies were not Founder Members!!!"
"Are you sure? I seem to remember back in the 1990s there was a big hoopla about them founding the Premier League... and look what a fantastic success it has been for them."
"No, no, no.... The Football League!!"
"Yea... the Premier League, right?... "
"No, they?re different."
"Alrite... so the Football League is now called The Championship. And you?re clebrating the fact that these seven teams are now not in the Championship? I don?t get it."
"No, we?re celebrating the fact that we were founder members of the Football League."
"... which is now The Fizzy Pop Championship, where the deadbeats also-rans like Newcastle go to hibernate and disappear... why exactly would you be celebrating that?"
"Well... err ?"
"So bottom line: you?re celebrating being founder members of a league you are no longer members of? In fact, that you would absolutely HATE to be members of... All because seven of you are now in the Premier League ? where you all really wannabe??? You?re barmy, mate."
...
Hang on though... I can see this converstaion occurring up and down the land:
"Founder Members" ? Hmmmm... Founder members of what?"
"The Football League!"
Alrite.. cool. But weren?t there more than seven?
"Yes, there were 12! [flashes aforementioned list] and now 7 are back in the Premier League... isn?t it exciting?"
"What about teams like Man Utd, Arsenal, Chelsea, Liverpool, Spurs... I think you?ve forgotten them."
"Ah no, that?s the whole point: those Johhny-come-latelies were not Founder Members!!!"
"Are you sure? I seem to remember back in the 1990s there was a big hoopla about them founding the Premier League... and look what a fantastic success it has been for them."
"No, no, no.... The Football League!!"
"Yea... the Premier League, right?... "
"No, they?re different."
"Alrite... so the Football League is now called The Championship. And you?re clebrating the fact that these seven teams are now not in the Championship? I don?t get it."
"No, we?re celebrating the fact that we were founder members of the Football League."
"... which is now The Fizzy Pop Championship, where the deadbeats also-rans like Newcastle go to hibernate and disappear... why exactly would you be celebrating that?"
"Well... err ?"
"So bottom line: you?re celebrating being founder members of a league you are no longer members of? In fact, that you would absolutely HATE to be members of... All because seven of you are now in the Premier League ? where you all really wannabe??? You?re barmy, mate."
Michael.........
I don’t often find myself agreeing with you, but I was about to type almost word-for-word exactly what you have submitted above!
Thanks for saving my typing fingers.
I don’t often find myself agreeing with you, but I was about to type almost word-for-word exactly what you have submitted above!
Thanks for saving my typing fingers.
You’re right... might as well take 1878 off the badge and put 1992... stop singing if yer know yer history... we may as well even move to another stadium right outside the city and start all over again!
I actually currently live in France and here’s a conversation I keep having to put up with..
"Hello"
"Hello"
"Where are you from?"
"I’m from Liverpool"
"Liverpool... great.. do you like football"
"Why, yes I do!"
"I love Liverpool.. especially Steven Gerrard!"
"Ah, well actually, I’m an Everton fan"
"Everton... but aren’t you from Liverpool?"
"I am from Liverpool.. and so are Everton.. in fact Everton are the origional team from Liverpool"
"Oh really? I thought Everton were from London!"
And then I see people walk past in Chelsea tops
I actually currently live in France and here’s a conversation I keep having to put up with..
"Hello"
"Hello"
"Where are you from?"
"I’m from Liverpool"
"Liverpool... great.. do you like football"
"Why, yes I do!"
"I love Liverpool.. especially Steven Gerrard!"
"Ah, well actually, I’m an Everton fan"
"Everton... but aren’t you from Liverpool?"
"I am from Liverpool.. and so are Everton.. in fact Everton are the origional team from Liverpool"
"Oh really? I thought Everton were from London!"
And then I see people walk past in Chelsea tops
Michael,
That was indeed a conversation recited from people best described as ignorant. I posted a comment on similar thread to Mark re the connection with the ?Football League?. The problem in explaining is down to the fact they chose to call it the Football League, which makes semantics difficult.
When we celebrate our Founder Member status, we are not just celebrating being Founder Members of the Football League, we are celebrating being Founder Members of the first and original Football League. The world?s oldest football competition, which ultimately spawned the Premier League. Now our league is called the Premier League, and yes we all broke away, and we are Founder Members of that too, but the Premier League is just a modern interpretation and an example of a football league, of which, Everton Football Club, along with 11 other sides, composed the first ever such league. The first in the world. If that isn?t worth celebrating, what is???
In addition, we may no longer play in the Football League, but we were part of the foundation of professional football, the Football League is connected to the Premier League via promotion, relegation, parachute payments, laws of the game including transfer regulations, so how exactly are we no longer a part of that competition?? Of course we are, as is the Premier League. Only a muppett would argue that we are celebrating being associated with the Coca Cola Championship? and I figure those that do mostly wear red?.
Mark ? I live in Birmingham, and had a similar conversation with ?an associate? when I told them I was going to Wembley to watch the Cup Final?. ?Oh, who?s playing??, ?The mighty Everton, we are playing Chelski?, ?Oooh it?s a London derby then?. I spent the next few minutes trying to convince a total dickhead that I spend my weekends going to Liverpool and not London. It?s still illegal to shoot people.
That was indeed a conversation recited from people best described as ignorant. I posted a comment on similar thread to Mark re the connection with the ?Football League?. The problem in explaining is down to the fact they chose to call it the Football League, which makes semantics difficult.
When we celebrate our Founder Member status, we are not just celebrating being Founder Members of the Football League, we are celebrating being Founder Members of the first and original Football League. The world?s oldest football competition, which ultimately spawned the Premier League. Now our league is called the Premier League, and yes we all broke away, and we are Founder Members of that too, but the Premier League is just a modern interpretation and an example of a football league, of which, Everton Football Club, along with 11 other sides, composed the first ever such league. The first in the world. If that isn?t worth celebrating, what is???
In addition, we may no longer play in the Football League, but we were part of the foundation of professional football, the Football League is connected to the Premier League via promotion, relegation, parachute payments, laws of the game including transfer regulations, so how exactly are we no longer a part of that competition?? Of course we are, as is the Premier League. Only a muppett would argue that we are celebrating being associated with the Coca Cola Championship? and I figure those that do mostly wear red?.
Mark ? I live in Birmingham, and had a similar conversation with ?an associate? when I told them I was going to Wembley to watch the Cup Final?. ?Oh, who?s playing??, ?The mighty Everton, we are playing Chelski?, ?Oooh it?s a London derby then?. I spent the next few minutes trying to convince a total dickhead that I spend my weekends going to Liverpool and not London. It?s still illegal to shoot people.
If my own experience is anything to go by I would say that 95% of the UK do not identify Everton with the city of Liverpool.
Here in Oz that figure is probably 100%.
After countless explanations about who we are and how we got our name I have come to the conclusion that the KEIOC slogan definately loses something when it has to be continuously explained what city we are talking about.
Here in Oz that figure is probably 100%.
After countless explanations about who we are and how we got our name I have come to the conclusion that the KEIOC slogan definately loses something when it has to be continuously explained what city we are talking about.
In my earlier post I digressed from the original topic that I think is a marvellous idea. The Uniteds and RS of this world can go on to win any number of tin cups but they nor unlimited Roubles or Arab cash can buy the honour of being one of the original 12 founders of the world game. There should be something on our shirts to publicise that fact and I am amazed it has taken so long for it to be discussed.
I?m in St Augustine, FL, on Wednesday. Have to go see a lady who runs a small business. Never met her. Of course the minute she opens her mouth I know she?s English. I ask her, "Where you from?"
She says, "Derby."
I say, "My apologies, you were relegated last year."
She says, "Oh, we don?t pay much attention to that now that we?re here [United States], but we cared about it a bit back home, and we did support Derby County" [I paraphrase....]
I say trying to make conversation, "Well, I?ll give you one guess who iI support. I?m of Irish decent and I?m Catholic."
She says, "Well, I?d have to guess Liverpool then."
I said, "WRONG! I support the Blue side!"
I think she wet herself.
I have to say, anything said with conviction simply startles you Brits. So damn proper! At least says the "bloody" American.
FTRS COYB!!!
She says, "Derby."
I say, "My apologies, you were relegated last year."
She says, "Oh, we don?t pay much attention to that now that we?re here [United States], but we cared about it a bit back home, and we did support Derby County" [I paraphrase....]
I say trying to make conversation, "Well, I?ll give you one guess who iI support. I?m of Irish decent and I?m Catholic."
She says, "Well, I?d have to guess Liverpool then."
I said, "WRONG! I support the Blue side!"
I think she wet herself.
I have to say, anything said with conviction simply startles you Brits. So damn proper! At least says the "bloody" American.
FTRS COYB!!!
To be fair to Michael, I do feel he has just posted his comment to create some kind of discussion from my post, which is essentially is an advert for my petition.
Basically what he?s written suggests that anything before the Premier League has no value in the eyes of the modern football fan... so essentially saying our 9 league titles and our European Cup Winners Cup victory counts for nothing.
At least that's how I?ve interpreted it.
If Liverpool can gloat and harp on about having won 18 leagues prior to 1992 then we can go on about having invented the Football League prior to 1992.
Basically what he?s written suggests that anything before the Premier League has no value in the eyes of the modern football fan... so essentially saying our 9 league titles and our European Cup Winners Cup victory counts for nothing.
At least that's how I?ve interpreted it.
If Liverpool can gloat and harp on about having won 18 leagues prior to 1992 then we can go on about having invented the Football League prior to 1992.
Mark
I share your pain about telling people who you support. I live in the great city of Rotterdam, and everyone I talk to, as soon as I mention I come from near Liverpool (they don’t know where Chester is, bless ’em), they go off about Dirk Kuyt and Steven Gerrard and the like, and I have to constantly repeat that actually, I support the original team in Liverpool, Everton.
At least the Dutch are slightly more knowledgeable than Joey’s bunch of Brummie no-hopers, and actually know Everton is in Liverpool. Still absolutely maddening, though.
I share your pain about telling people who you support. I live in the great city of Rotterdam, and everyone I talk to, as soon as I mention I come from near Liverpool (they don’t know where Chester is, bless ’em), they go off about Dirk Kuyt and Steven Gerrard and the like, and I have to constantly repeat that actually, I support the original team in Liverpool, Everton.
At least the Dutch are slightly more knowledgeable than Joey’s bunch of Brummie no-hopers, and actually know Everton is in Liverpool. Still absolutely maddening, though.
I kinda love this idea but Michael makes some valid points, if it’s to be done it needs to have plenty of marketting along with it to explain what it is or it needs to be clear enough so that questions don’t arrise, like has already been said it needs 1888 writing there, maybe "FLFM 1888" (Football League Founder Members 1888
I’m not entirely sure this is something that should go on a shirt indefinately. Maybe for the anniversaries something should be done, 125 years being the next big one in 2013, for that season the 12 or 11 remaining members or whatever there is should have something on their shirts and a mini summer tournament should be set up between the sides, make it into a celebration, the Emirates cup & Wembley cup are going on this summer with some pretty big sides in, they’re playing 4 games over 2 days at the Emirates & Wembley has 2 games on a Friday & 2 on the Sunday. Maybe we could do a tournament along similar lines, choose 2 or 3 locations, those being the grounds of the founder members, have a few games on each day and handicap things a bit by making teams play once against someone of similar standard and once against a higher/lower standard team, I don’t know how to keep an 11 teams tournament short enough for the summer but I’m sure someone can figure it out. I think a joint celebration is important to something like this, if we all individually say yeah, we’ll support it then be left to our own devices to kick some celebrations off it might be a bit lame. A day when fans from different clubs, who all know their ’istory, can come together and celebrate those pioneers, world leaders from 1888.
You guys are doing a great job and I’m about to go off and join the facebook group, this is relevant & anyone who says it’s not doesn’t know their history, this very relevant, someone would have created a league of some sort sooner or later but who knows how it would have turned out, you could say that about anything I guess but we could be playing slightly different rules right now because the ground was broken by another country where the rules of football hadn’t been translated quite right from those that spread the game around the world, we could have a play off system like in Rugby league where you play out a league all year then basically have a weighted cup to find the winner.. the goal mouth could be huge or whatever.
Of course it’s also another great victory for the North, or at least the "Not South" anyway and that’s always good in my book.
I’m not entirely sure this is something that should go on a shirt indefinately. Maybe for the anniversaries something should be done, 125 years being the next big one in 2013, for that season the 12 or 11 remaining members or whatever there is should have something on their shirts and a mini summer tournament should be set up between the sides, make it into a celebration, the Emirates cup & Wembley cup are going on this summer with some pretty big sides in, they’re playing 4 games over 2 days at the Emirates & Wembley has 2 games on a Friday & 2 on the Sunday. Maybe we could do a tournament along similar lines, choose 2 or 3 locations, those being the grounds of the founder members, have a few games on each day and handicap things a bit by making teams play once against someone of similar standard and once against a higher/lower standard team, I don’t know how to keep an 11 teams tournament short enough for the summer but I’m sure someone can figure it out. I think a joint celebration is important to something like this, if we all individually say yeah, we’ll support it then be left to our own devices to kick some celebrations off it might be a bit lame. A day when fans from different clubs, who all know their ’istory, can come together and celebrate those pioneers, world leaders from 1888.
You guys are doing a great job and I’m about to go off and join the facebook group, this is relevant & anyone who says it’s not doesn’t know their history, this very relevant, someone would have created a league of some sort sooner or later but who knows how it would have turned out, you could say that about anything I guess but we could be playing slightly different rules right now because the ground was broken by another country where the rules of football hadn’t been translated quite right from those that spread the game around the world, we could have a play off system like in Rugby league where you play out a league all year then basically have a weighted cup to find the winner.. the goal mouth could be huge or whatever.
Of course it’s also another great victory for the North, or at least the "Not South" anyway and that’s always good in my book.
Michael, I?d ask why Liverpool wear stars depicting wins in a compettion that no longer exists?
Coming out of the ground recently some supporters were going on about Howard?s record.
"What record?" I asked.
"Most ever clean sheets in a season for Everton, you ignoramus."
"Sorry, lads... that?s held by Gordon West innit? 21 in 69-70."
Following current Sky1992 reasoning, Liverpool and Everton have never been champions... it?s weird.
Joeynkoo Ludden: "The world?s oldest football competition..." ??!! We?ve just been in the Final of the world?s oldest football competition, also the world?s oldest knock-out competition, apparently.
No, but it is the world's oldest football league/association which I assume is what he meant.
Can’t we do the German trait and put a 1. in front of our name to indicate that we were in fact the 1st Club in the city :- )
After 5½ years in New Zealand, I?ve got my lines better organised than Laurence Olivier on an opening night of the "Scottish Play".
It?s dead easy and it works like this -
Rule 1 - if a British / European / South American / African footy fan asks who I support then the response is "I support the Blue half of Liverpool"
Rule 2 - if, during a conversation about ?soccer? an Antipodean, North American or Asian person asks where I?m from then the response is "I am from Everton".
Try it, either reponse avoids having to listen to how great ?Steeviee Gee? is and, therefore, avoids any unnecessary violence.
It?s dead easy and it works like this -
Rule 1 - if a British / European / South American / African footy fan asks who I support then the response is "I support the Blue half of Liverpool"
Rule 2 - if, during a conversation about ?soccer? an Antipodean, North American or Asian person asks where I?m from then the response is "I am from Everton".
Try it, either reponse avoids having to listen to how great ?Steeviee Gee? is and, therefore, avoids any unnecessary violence.
Sorry Dennis, you are of course correct, I meant to type "oldest such competition", ie. league format.
Sorry to barge in on your blue / red identity crisis, just some bloke from Stoke here, found the link on the Oatcake (our fanzine site).
In response to Michael Kenrick?s point about what is being celebrated here: It is not about the formation of the CCC or Divs 1 & 2, or the Premier League. It is about being a founder member of the first football league in the world. It is the the point at which a game of hoofing a pigs bladder started to evolve into the world?s best and most popular sport.
I am proud that my team were part of that. I am sure you are proud that Everton were part of that. I quite like the idea of fans around the world (not that we travel much outside of pre-season) should know that they owe us and the other eleven a debt of gratitude.
I?ll sign your petition.
In response to Michael Kenrick?s point about what is being celebrated here: It is not about the formation of the CCC or Divs 1 & 2, or the Premier League. It is about being a founder member of the first football league in the world. It is the the point at which a game of hoofing a pigs bladder started to evolve into the world?s best and most popular sport.
I am proud that my team were part of that. I am sure you are proud that Everton were part of that. I quite like the idea of fans around the world (not that we travel much outside of pre-season) should know that they owe us and the other eleven a debt of gratitude.
I?ll sign your petition.
It would be better for the 3 Founder Members of Both to have something on the shirt.
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1 Posted 19/06/2009 at 20:47:03
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My neighbours are from Grenoble - but we’re all here in Catalunya. Int tinternet wonderful.