Having just watched the Uefa cup game I'm gutted with the result, but maybe not surprised. Don't get me wrong, I'm not a serial moaner (enough of them posting already), but can any of us honestly say that we deserved to progress at the expense of St Liege?

For me what hurt the most was the Belgians attitude. They were quite prepared to concede possession and territory in the belief that we were not good enough to break them down, did not have the tactical know-how, and did not have the players with the necessary ability to beat them. Where they wrong?

Time and time again Everton looked devoid of ideas when they got to the final third. Moyes insists on handicappin the team by playing Neville in midfield when everyone can plainly see that the guy struggles to pass the ball. Two quality strikers up front starved of possession unless they manage to win one our signature long balls. And no width whatsoever. Fact: We tried, we lost, we deserved to. Let's hope Moyes and the boys can turn things around starting with the Newcastle game because we desperately need to.

This team is sick, it's unwell, below par, not firing on all cylinders.

We haven't quite got to the Norwegian Blue stage yet., but Old wifey Moyes's traditional remedies and a Capn Pip "snap yourself out of it," will no longer help...if they ever did at all. So it's off to Doctor Football for a course of School of Science antibiotics. For, if left untreated, this hoofball virus can turn, before we know it, into a case of relegation pneumonia. and the next stop is the Leeds, Nottingham, Hospice before you can say Seffield Wednesday, Paging Dr. Football, paging Dr. Football....Is there a Doctor in the house???

Little over a year ago, after growing up a typical American kid watching baseball and our form of football, I decided to research the EPL and "pick a team." As a life-long Boston Red Sox fan I wanted a team not in the top 4. I’d suffered my whole life - as well as watching my Father and Grandfather pass without ever seeing a Red Sox Championship team - so I wanted a team that was well run, stable, and could possibly reach the summit. But I did not want to latch on to a team like the Shite or Man U who had a history of winning. Too easy, I hate bandwagon jumpers, and I can say from personal experience the greatest road to travel is the one strewn with thorns - cause when it turns to gold there is so much satisfaction and joy. In short, Everton was the only team for me.
Latching on to Everton was like St Paul getting smote by God - it was an epiphany and I’m totally hooked and love the Blues. I’d walk through Hell in a gasoline suit to see them prosper.
Last year was total joy. A team that left it all on the field, a superb manager, great fans - I simply loved the entire season. I sincerely thought I was nearing the road paved in gold.
I now realize I’m back on the thorny path. I will never yield in my loyalty or stop grasping at hope. I truly love watching the beautiful game, and more importantly the Blues.
But it’s painful to watch the Blues currently. They lack inspiration, hustle, creativity, et al. They seem devoid of all desire - listless and complacent.
Brighter days will follow, but tough, suffering times seem upon us.
Hold to hope. It took me 35 years to see my beloved Red Sox take home a championship. When it happened it was magical. I woke up 2 of my 4 sons at midnight to see the final out on October 27th, 2004.
Although things are currently very bleak and the sun ceases to shine, someday I hope to have the same moment with my sons, and maybe their sons, when Everton has the moment a well run, well supported team / club aspires to.

CYOB!! Get it together. At a minimum, they play with spirit and heart.
So enough of the background and poetic story-telling. Neville is clearly a Moyes’ favorite, but must take a supporting role. The back four is horrid lately and must find the brick-wall ways of last season. And can we please stop it with the hoof-ball - we did better keeping it on the carpet tonight - but that’s not too hard to do when they lay back and basically say "you stink and can’t beat us. we’ll start milking our first leg lead from the get-go b/c you can’t beat us." Arteta was not impressive as he usually is. If the usual suspects are going to be rather complacent and have no heart, let’s go back to the Everton pups we started the season with so we can at least see some effort out there.
I didn’t give my heart to this team to see a bunch of overpaid men go through the motions.
Someone stick a firecracker in someone’s arse. Enough of the woe is me attitude. These boys need to get to it, or they should be booed off the pitch at Goodison until they show true spirit and desire.

Feel better now.

Did anybody see Moyes face at the end, he stood there for ages like he was about to cry, as if he had to make the biggest decision of his life, he looked like a man ready to leave the club!

Could be wrong but lets see what happens after the barcodes game.

Jamie.

I take inspiration to what you have just written. Absolutely wonderful to read something like that.

COYB!!

What was the story with Castillo? How come he didn’t get a start? How come he didn’t even come off the bench? Why was Yobo brought on for Neville instead of Castillo or even Rodwell?
We had no idea on how to break them down. Central midfield let us down again.

On the positive side, I though Jags was excellent again. Good to see Pienaar back.
Tough times ahead.

Jamie,

Very poignant piece. I too am a Red Sox fan (grew up in Cambridge... Mass, not England) and a huge Blues fan as well. I feel your pain! Its so sad what’s going on you almost want to cry.

Not to go off on a rant but the saddest thing is that it seems like ancillary things are the problem at the club...and it’s seeped onto the field. Stuff out of the players hands. You can’t win with bad management (ask the Raiders, ask the Knicks, hell, ask the Bruins; flip side, Red Sox, Patriots, and Celtics all have great owners and allow their teams to thrive.) The club is rotten from the inside out. Bottom line, it’s criminal to us the fans.

but nonetheless, COYB!

Great post Jamie. I too looked at the EPL a few years ago trying to pick a team to follow. Everton played in the same colours as the club I played for, had an Australian, a great history were progressing on the pitch. We are a club that will have to earn our success rather than buy it, and that?s what I wanted.

We are all pissed off at the moment watching the hard fought progress we have made in recent years go down the toilet. I imagine Moyes is feeling the same. We all know our team is low on confidence and big names. The thing that is gets under my skin is there are players that simply aren?t giving a 100% effort and others who seem to have forgotten the very basics. Living in Australia I can?t get to the games, but as fans there are only two things we can do to make an impact. One do a Newcastle to force some change or two create an atmosphere like Liege did to inspire the players to lift. I know creating an atmosphere like that can?t come out of nowhere, but I?m afraid booing isn?t going to help this team at the moment.

I said it the other day and i’ll say it again, if we lose to newcastle at home we are really in serious trouble.

Moyes gave his out of jail key away.

He gave it to Birmingham City.

before a ball was kicked I knew we would lose. Moyes face a few mins before KO said it all.
Nervous, worried and nothing up his sleeve to change things.

We have lost a key player in Carsley and only know do we realise what a job he did in protecting our back four.

Midfield is awful at the moment, Neville and Osman need to go. Arteta and Cahill need to perform more consistantly.

Up front Saha and Yak have potential but they were fed nothing from the back or midfield.

This is going to be a long tough season.

I remember coming out of Goodison in October 1983 after a 1-0 loss to Luton and a display from a Blues team totally lacking in any confidence. If anyone had told me that 6 months later 10 of those players would be winning the FA Cup at Wembley I would have said they were in need of some type of therapy !! All is not lost - there is a lot of football between now and May. Only 2 years after winning the league and Dixie Dean scoring those 60 goals the team were relegated!!!Perhaps the rollercoaster of emotios is part of the Evertonian DNA !!!!
There’s a lot of football between now and May. Things can change a lot. KEEP THE FAITH!!!!!

The things that stuck out of last nights performance for me was, possibly the worst substitutiion ever. Liege were struggling to cope with the three forwards, we score and what does Moyes do, takes a forward off for a midfielder when we were having our best spell of the match.
Another frustration is defenders turning their back on shots. Jagielka was responsible for this last night in the build up to their first goal. These players need to realise a ball in the face doesnt hurt that much, stand up to the shot and let it hit you instead of being a shithouse and ducking out the way.
Finally if anybody was in any doubt that Phil Neville is shit, last night most definately proved this point.

Good peice Si, I totally agree.

This is the lowest ive ever felt as a Evertonian. My mate said he read somewhere on the BBC website there was a rumour that if we won last night Moyes would stay, if not he was signing at the toon. Cant say i saw it myself but sadly i think there could be a ounce of truth in it. If he cant progress then he’s going to go somewhere where he can.

Cris Kelly, what do you mean ALOMOST crying....

David Moyes, statesman-like, ala Gordon Brown PM, believes he is the best man for the job and therefore isn’t leaving (yet) despite being the main reason Everton are in the footballing mess they are in.

What a fuckin’ hero! The man is a loser, dour, negative, tactically inept - how many more times do these things need spelling out?? Why doesn’t he accept responsibility and clear his desk before someone big enough comes along and says -YOU’RE FIRED!

Will someone tell Yakubo to move his fat arse a bit...I am sorely disappointed in him of late. Seems he has taken to trying to fall over in the penalty area instead of getting the ball between the posts.

I am still 100% behind Davey Moyes and we will pull this miserable start out of the bag and prosper - believe me. They don’t call me mystical Mavis for nowt!!

Moyes had no choice last night other than to play Neville in centre midfield. Castillo is nowhere ready to play in that role . He basically marks space , he doesn’t yet close people down and he doesnt speak English to issue orders . He is undoubtedly a better ball player , passer than Neville ,but at the stage were at we need cover in front of the back 4, and castillo doesnt do it.

We cannot play 4:4:2 with Cahill in the centre , total waste of time , his best role is behind the forward in the 4:4:1:1system (its not 4:5:1) . Moyes after 20 mins pushed him wide and brough Arteta into the middle to provide creativity , but we had no width or pace to exploit it.

We will look better with Arteta and Pinnear wide and I suspect Felliani and Neville in the centre , until the day arrives and Castillo shows he can do that role.

Until then Neville is there as no-one can fulfill that ex- Carsley role.

I maybe being optimistic here, which is going against the grain I know and there have been some pretty spineless performances recently, but I saw some evidence of recovery last night. I thought the defence looked more confident than for a while and I would like to see Baines given a consistent run instead of being shunted in and out , which lets face it is no way build a players confidence. Saha got another game under his belt and Piennar looked lively when he came on. Also, I think Jags is beginning to show leadership qualities and it is more of his type of attitude that is required at the moment. Lets build on the positives and get a good performance and result on Sunday.

Howard Neville Baines Lescott Jagielka Fellani Osman Arteta Piennar Yakubu Saha. 2-0 Blues

The problem now is that losing starts to be become a habit...and a hard one to break at that.

The barcodes on Sunday now is an even more pivotal game for both sides...lets hope its not one that they end up kick starting their season with!!!

NSNO

What makes me feel so annoyed and upset is that WE HAVE THE PLAYERS. Everton have the team to match most other teams but this season they simply don?t appear to have what it takes.

There is a lethargy, listlessness, lack of desire and no sense of urgency. Not one of the players appears to want it anymore.

Originally I wondered if it was something to do with a change in diet since Steve Round became coach, but the last 5 minutes saw Everton playing as we should have started and played the WHOLE game.

Watching the game, the only player who appeared to show any continued level of commitment was Phil Jagielka. He was there, stalwart and putting tackles in. Even Osman showed brief signs of it. Most others saw the attackers coming, tracked for a while then appeared to think - "oh, someone will get them now..." WHAT???? DON?T STOP, WHY ARE YOU BACKING AWAY???

If you can, watch the match back again - a player tracks back so far then stops and lets the next line tack it up - WTF???? If you?re on a many - STAY ON THE MAN. if that means you?re tracking the whole length of field - DO IT!!

There?s so much space between each of our players and there was no understanding. Various flicks and passes to where players SHOULD have been, but weren?t.

I have no idea where our season is headed from here and I guess Newcastle on Sunday is another key game of the season. At the moment, I take heart from the fact we are not out of pace with the league as far as our current position however another few bad results and we?ll be down with Spurs and Newcastle. I hold comfort but not much hope.

Mike Oates,

Castillo is clearly nowhere near ready to play defensive midfield...He’s only been the onyl competent player in that position this season..

Utter tripe mate. TRIPE!

I'm a natural pessimist and as hard as I try to be more positve I find it difficult. Some of the posts on here are full of optimism and are refreshing to read. However, we never had hard luck last night, the better team went through.

We can't play 442 with the players we have they can only do a job in a 5. I've said it before and Ill come in for some stick, but Leon Osman is nothing more than a very average squad player, how he continues to be a major player for us is totally beyond me.

I'm hurting but the main thing which sticks in my mind is how a team that finished fifth and looking to ?push on? can be so mis-managed over the summer whereby in October that was the best team we could put out. I'll get over it like we always do but I'm gutted.

Ciaran - if you watched the 1st leg Liege, the 1st half vs Hull and the 1st half vs Blackburn Carling Cup you?ll realise that Castillo was hopeless. He didnt know what to do or how to pick up runners. He was that bad Moyes took him off in the last 2 games at half-time. You must have been watching with rose tinted spectacles if you think he?s ready.

OK MIKE!

The irony of suggesting I have rose tinted spectacles while accepting the veracity as Neville as a rational choice in midfield... is really quite laughable.

Arteta’s corner in the last minute summed it up for me, we had everyone in the box including Howard. Their keeper couldn’t catch cold & what does he do, takes 2 steps backwards & delivers we weakest corner i’ve ever seen. I think it bounced before before it reached the defender infront of the near post!

Absolutly pathetic!!!

Someone please stop him taking these shite set-pieces!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Ciaran

I, equally as much as you, do not wish to see Neville in midfield. The problem so far is that, whilst you're conceding 2-3 goals a game, our defence needs the type of cover Carsley gave it, and UNFORTUNATELY the only player capable of doing it at the moment is Neville. I wish to god that Jags and Lescott can work together as a unit and hopefully won't need full time protection.

In my opinion, Neville isn’t capable of giving adequate cover...so thats were our opinions depart.

If looking angry, mistiming tackles, positional ineptiutude and shouting at ball boys was a measure of his ability to perform the defensive midfield role then he’d be a diamond.

Castillo may not have learnt to close down effectively yet - but you would have noticed that for the majority of the game last night that role was not required as they were standing off us anyway!

Ok it’s all good saying Castillo isn’t good enough, but if Moyes is so great why didn he sign a player who is not good enough??!! If Phil Neville is honestly, hand on heart a better centre mid than Castillo then why did Moyes sign him, he must be awful if he is back up for Neville! Every Everton fan saw problems ahead of us before the season started (no wide players and no-one to replace fernandes) so why the hell didn’t Moyes see this and do something about it??!! That’s what he’s being paid for! His decision to go into the season with Rodwell and Jagielka as first choice cente mids stank and then the idiot didn’t start signing players until after the season began, meaning our new 15 million pound star was cup-tied! Thanks Moyes you fool! And don’t get me started on Moyes’ hero, Mr Untouchable (can’t pass a ball midfielder) Phil Neville. It’s a load of bollocks for Moyes and the players to say we can finish top four this year, when Neville is playing centre mid. Osman and neville aren’t of a good enough standard to be first choice and Cahill is only any good in a 4-5-1. Atleast Pienaar is back-the one player in our team with a bit of pace!!!

I couldn?t face posting anything last night as I was severely depressed by our premature UEFA Cup exit, and thought an unbalanced, knee-jerk reaction would be regretted come the morning (there were enough of those posted last night anyway).

It was always going to be a tall order, but I had faint hopes of perhaps an ?against the odds? win to kick start the season ? especially when I saw we were going for 4-4-2, giving Baines a go on the left and swapping Lescott for a faltering Yobo. Moyes was never going to drop Neville (I?ve given up hoping there), but my hope was that his presence in the ?Carsley? role might shore-up our defence to a greater extent, even if it put the burden of midfield attacking creativity on the shoulders of Cahill, Arteta and Osman.

Even as it stood, the midfield was always likely to be outnumbered (especially with Liege at home and able to sit on a draw), and it would always need Neville to still push the play forward promptly and have Baines and Hibbert pushing up the flanks on counter-attacks to provide enough outlets as well as width to feed our two strikers. All well and good, but all this strategic and tactical talk and Davey?s best-laid plans do require something quite fundamental?.every player needs to ?turn up? for the game!

I?m not a Moyes apologist. His role in our current depressing situation cannot be underestimated, despite my feelings towards the board following this summer?s inactivity. The contract farce, his dour demeanor, his tactical conservatism, his loyalty to certain players or formations, some recent signings (and lack of them) etc. However, in all honesty, taking this game on its own merits and screening out what?s gone on before, I can?t think that the team and formation that was put out last night would have been too different from the one most of us would have chosen if we?d been in his shoes (with the probable exception of Castillo in midfield and Neville back at Right Back). For once I think the players deserve the lion?s share of the criticism ? as there were some well-paid individuals out on that pitch that failed to deliver the performance necessary.

Howard ? I couldn?t fault him unduly, although I still think his command of the box is weaker than last year.
Hibbert ? A limited player, just coming back from injury. Caught out of position a few times and it was sad to see him ?nugmegged!?
Lescott ? Looked more comfortable centrally, but some dreadful passing and little attacking potential compared to when he?s on the left
Jagielka ? One of the few to put in an honest shift, and while his distribution can be a bit unsubtle, his opportunist goal summed up his involvement well. I?d make him captain at present.
Baines ? Still yet to prove his worth in defence and attack. I?m still not convinced by him. Although by the letter of the law he touch the ball before making full contact with the Liege attacker, it was always going to be likely a penalty would result given his positioning
Neville ? Fairly dreadful. Sat too deep, gave no forward impetus to the team, inconsistent tackling, insipid passing and needs to realize that leading by example as a captain inspires team mates more than just shouting. Can?t believe why he?s been signed for another 4 years!
Cahill ? The last few years we?ve had a debate about his inability to play in a 4-4-2 because he is not the dominant creative, skillful midfielder needed, but more of a ?fox in a box? semi-attacker better suited to 4-5-1. Last night he was a bit of a luxury again.
Osman ? Once again looked lightweight and while his work rate couldn?t be faulted, his passing and running was unfocussed and far from incisive. Still looks like a squad player holding a position until Piennar returns.
Arteta ? The best of a pedestrian and uninspired midfield, but still playing nowhere near the level he is capable of. No great creativity in his passing or running game, and while his lofted deliveries were slightly better than in recent games, he fluffed a few as well (not least that late shot at goal). Seems unable to dictate a game single-handedly and the burden on his shoulders seems to be reflected in his on-field demeanor.
Saha & Yakubu ? With the lack of service our strikers received from midfield, you could almost excuse their ineffectiveness, but I felt their contribution was still underwhelming, especially from the Yak. Liege shephered them well, but even so, both lacked a spark last night.

I honestly thought Moyes?s substitutions were understandable in principle as he moved to even more attacking mode (although he had little choice). The relatively early introduction (by Davey?s standard) of Anichebe did shake things up, and Victor looked quite sharp. However, for me the highpoint of the night was to see Piennar?s return. I?m biased about the influence of this guy, but the creative width he suddenly gave us on the left, his support of Arteta when Mikel came into the centre, and the confidence of his ball touches, showed everyone what we might have been missing so far this season (and gives me some hope for the rest of the season). Yobo?s introduction to free up Lescott to go forward (Neville off ? hooray!) was a last throw of the dice and sadly led to no last minute heroics.

So, there we are, on a Friday morning, with Evertonians either dazed and depressed, or calling for the head of Davey on a plate. Well, I don?t know how much of that performance can be put down to player confidence, training, formations and tactics ? all of which does land on Davey?s doorstep ? and how much the players just didn?t raise their game against a competent, well-organised, but also beatable Standard Liege team.

The fall-out from this game hasn?t occurred yet, especially whether it signals the closing of the DM-era or not. My heart still wants to stick with him, even if my head is increasingly saying otherwise. With some tough EPL fixtures coming up, a win against the Toon on Sunday would appear to be essential ? and I hope for once the players can start doing their (albeit flawed) manager some justice on the pitch. They owe it to us and themselves at least.

Another point I’d like to make is the sale of Andy Johnson. I know he wasn’t happy with being second fiddle to the Yak, but he’d have caused them loads of problems last night with his pace when they were defending high up the pitch and he’d have put their defenders under pressure and forced them into mistakes not like Saha and Yakubu. it would have been nice to see us bring in another pacey player to help replace him.

Were so predictable, Arteta’s corners and free kicks are awful, he should be shot for that corner at the end, had no effort at all but what was worse it I said to everyone who I was with this won’t beat the first man. He takes every free kick! how many has he scored? it can’t be more that one a season so why does he the only one who takes them? probs cos there is no one else good enough?
Bullard to use as an example, I remember him coming back from injury for the last 8 games of the season for Fulham last season, seem to remember him scoring about 3 free kicks, corners and delivery absolutely brilliant and dragged the team through when they needed it. Now I am not for one minute saying buy Bullard I am just using him as an example of what a midfield player should bring to the team, and Arteta is blessed with much more skill and quality than Bullard, this is a player once of Barcelona youth and PSG!! Whats gone wrong I can’t remember the last time I seen him beat a man.

Another point is we are so scared when we are actually passing the ball on the floor to each other. What do they practice in training? they have no imagination, in fact their penalty came again from us having the ball Jags brought it all the way to the half way line, he had at least 3 players Nev, Arteta and Osman in the centre wide open but he tried a clever through ball to Saha who had 3 defenders round him, they immediatly counter attacked leaving Baines running over to cover Jags being out of position!! Now this is basic schoolboy stuff, you don’t try a 40 yard pass along the floor when a player is marked!!!I
Other quick points I’m with Colin Malone if he means Mcfadden, I feel he is a loss as he was a good option, one of the most technically gifted at the club and can unlock doors, if you look at alot of our turning points over the last few seasons he has scored when we needed to Sheff Wed away in first round league cup, Metalist and Charlton last minute to get valuable points.
Also hoofball worked last season or we got away with it more cos we had AJ chasing down lost causes, the Yak or Saha aint gonna do that.
And finally we need two wingers on each side who can beat people, were so predictable everything is through the middle.

I’d be happy just to see an Everton Striker get the opportunity to miss a shot on goal these days.

How many times did an Everton striker get presented with a clear cut opportunity last night? Not many, if any.

Its very rare for this team to create a chance through good play. We scored a well worked goal at Hull but that is the exception to the usual fare.

You could have Pele up front and he wouldnt score many in this team. Moyes’s tactics have always been geared to being destructive rather than creative.

Yes, a Moyes team has always been hard to beat (well usually) but We lack pace, width and creativity. The Liege boss knew that and set his team out accordingly...thats why they won, and good on them, they are a better team and deserved it (even if the ref was crap).

(Oh and Neville, I take it he doesnt play poker much because they way he telegraphs where and when he is going to play a pass is amazing...i lost count the amount of times a liege player stepped in front of Cahill and Arteta to cut the pass out)

sorry Lee, i meant Carsley, if you go back when ever Carsley was injured, we struggled big time, ie when we finished just the relegated teams on goal difference. Neville in midfield? i,d rather have Robbie savage, HONEST

Amazing the amount of wannabe footy managers on Toffee-web, everyone seems to know how to do things better, when to do it, who to buy, who to sell etc etc. Right down to how bad the tea lady is at making Tea....From my perspective i think things will start to pick up, i mean did we really play that bad agaist Liege, in the first leg yes, the first half was terrible but the second we had a lot of the ball but just didnt get the breakthrough, as for the second leg again we dominated but failed creativly to open them up. With the return of Pienaar who i think is a very intelligent, quick footballer along with Arteta and Ossie we could turn things round. I was actually encouraged by the display of the team, to me it didnt look like the heads had dropped the team was trying. Lescott and Jags need to be full time centre halfs, Yobo needs dropped too accident prone and hoofs the ball too much. Cahill seems only to suit as an attacking mid but i look the like of 3 upfront. Caused all sorts of problems and i feel it may well suit Felliani to play this way.....Diff to me against Liege...They came to Goodison and played 3 upfront as their play with confidence we generally play 1 upfront home & away...This needs to change.
About time we started to support more and not be over critical at the slightest things, sooner or latter the papers will pick up on how the fans are acting and blow this into a full scale crisis...which i dont feel it is.

We need radical changes through the team. In defence leave out Yobo as he is weak. Stick with Baines, he links well with Pienaar. Bring in Baxter and Vaughan. We need their enthusiasm and verve. We need to hussle and get stuck in. Arteta needs to go into the middle. But we can have players on the bench who are going to give us a plan B.

Osman needs a rest as does Cahill. The Yak doesn’t need a rest; he needs a kick up the arse. We must stop being predictable.

Last night’s game confirmed that in their current demoralised state Everton got precisely what they deserved. The sadness lay in the fact that they were an embarrassment. Their pathetic attempts to retain possession and pass accurately and make PROGRESS show clearly the appalling level of coaching at the club from start to finish and to have it paraded before a wider audience is unforgivable. It is thrown into sharp relief by having watched the masters of such a passing game earlier in the week, namely Arsenal. Before we hear that "Oh well they have top players etc" they were not born so. Mr Wenger and his staff nurture their players from the youngest age in the necessary skills, attitudes etc so that when you have the privilege of seeing them play you have to admire the obvious thought and hard work that has gone into their training, the standards demanded and the level of response and progress shown by the players. Last night showed that quite simply there is something "rotten in the state of Goodison" at present. Having watched Everton for over 50 years and the game generally I know the signs of serious decline when I see it and this is it. Early in the game Hibbert’s four attempts to control the ball before letting it pass over the touchline was a clear example of this appalling lack of standards (How long has this lad been PLAYING professional football?)But the many contributers to this site have long seen this and all the other obvious issues surrounding Neville, the failure of the talented Arteta to assume the lead role demanded of him, the often bizarre recruitment policy/practice etc, etc. Even basic levels of fitness seem to have gone by the board, as Baines, of whom I had high hopes, looked out on his feet towards the end of 90 MINUTES- God knows what would have happened if it had gone to extra-time! I have had great respect for Mr Moyes as a person and for what he has done for the club and of course I am not party to any of the truths of "behind the scenes" issues but this IS a shambles and he must hold his hands up and accept his share of the responsibility. leaving aside the reasons for the none-signing of a renewed contract etc, a blind man could see that it’s symbolic value is crucial. It is not simply the odd poor individual performance or an off-day at the office by the team that we are talking about, this is serious decline and a very genuine threatened freefall unless some authority is introduced at all levels.

* Philip Bunting
Posted 03/10/2008 at 12:41:49

It’s posts like this that make me despair. This nonsensical, naieve supposition that you can’t support this goddam team and at the same time be critical of it is bollocks.

I’ve been watching the posts throughout the day and it seems to me that Everton FC and David Moyes in particular are getting away with murder here. Most people are expressing displeasure at what has happened and putting it into context. Then along comes sonnyjim and says everything will be okay if we just keep believing. This is a sign of the maddening evangelical nonesense spouted by Dodd and others.

The fans, many for years and years, have followed this club around the world. Some even have a stake in the club as shareholders. Yet the management here treat us all like idiots. They are only interested in our money. They have very little respect for us as people or as supporters. It’s about time these idiots felt the whole expression of our displeasure. But, no doubt, everyone will be at Goodison to watch Newcastle turn this poor excuse of a team over and continue to hope for the best. I, for one, will not step foot at an Everton match again until Moyes goes.

Too many players looked either fucked or couldnt give a fuck last night.

Time to roll out some of the enthusiatic youngsters who actually want to cross the white line in a Royal Blue jersey.

Hopefully this will give those who seem to be treading water a kick up the arse they so richly deserve....however I guess when then massive salaries arrive in their offshore accounts each week they really couldnt care that much!

Stephen Stuart - now whose being pathetic - with that attitude its a good thing you won?t be be stepping a foot inside Goodison again until Moyes goes, and I for one, hope he remains as Manager for a good few years yet.

I haven?t read all these posts, to many, but I was at the game last night and the negetive vibes amoungst the fans, compared to last season was depressing in its self, we all watched the game and we all have an opinion on the tactics, players and the low confidence. But I just think Moyes has been found out again this season, yes we have had two back to back decent seasons, built on hard work and loads of heart, but as team playing football we are not improving and basically you cant go on for ever being an hard working team, with out the skill, you have some decent manager who will just suss our play out and combat it, Moyes to me is a decent manager with limited tactical knowledge and also inept at coaching his teams to pass the ball and then move, look at the derby we was passed off the park, for me Moyes will always be a kick and hope manager with a hard work ethic, but sometimes you have got to find that little bit more and for me Moyes fails to deliever in that.

Patty, its you that is being pathetic for accepting this crap that Moyes is putting out for us to watch, and all the others who agree with you. I watched Everton get relegated in 1950, and we played much better football than we do now, and throughout the three seasons it took us to get promoted, we were always known as the school of science. This clown we have now, attempting to manage us, is utterly clueless, and should have decency to resign after last night. Heaven preserve us if he signs this contract, Kenwright should withdraw it immediately, and save us from another 5 years of dithering and hoofballing misery!

* Patty Beesley
Posted 03/10/2008 at 14:14:53

I resent being called pathetic. It’s the only way I can protest that makes a difference - they are not having anymore of my money! What are you doing by going along with all of this rubbish??

Colin - I too was around watching EFC in the 50?s and I don ?t think they were a better team than the one we have today - more physical yes.

Stephen S ... Sorry if I upset you. Wouldn?t want to spoil your weekend when you won?t be watching Everton.
Cheer up chuck - we will pull it around.

Patty, at least they earned the nickname School of Science... with Moyes in charge, this team will never have that privilege. He should walk now.

Who the fuck does Moyes thinks he is holding the club to ransom over the terms of a contract? Kenwright should call his bluff and withdraw the offer at once.

Jamie,

A couple of years ago we were walking around Boston with our Patriot adoring, Sox loving friend who now lives in southern CT. Surrounded by New York surbubanites where he lives, he took one look at the people on the streets, turned to us and said "these are MY people".

Jamie, you are one of OUR people.

Yes, our road is always one of thorns, yes we always get the wrong side of everything. Could we draw a 3rd division side at home, no a Premiership side away. Could we get the no hopers, no we get the Belgian Champions. Could we get 118th minute winners when the other team had hit the post and had shots cleared off the line, no we get own goals and dodgy penalties against us.

But we will survive. We will continue to support and the glory days will come one day. Our friend was 42 when at last the Patriots won the Superbowl. He had not given up hope but a great manager, a well run organisation and the signing of a nobody who turned out to be one of the players of his generation. OK, so we blow hot and cold on the first, we need the second and we sold the third - but then again was he?

He was 44 when the Sox laid the ghost and I sit here now in my 2007 Champions sweatshirt hoping I am going to get the 2008 version for Christmas.

When you make it you stay there - but only for a while.

Form is temporary and class is permament. We are Everton - We have class.

Patty

I?m not upset - and I won?t have my weekend spoilt, in fact got lots to do, don?t patronize me - the evangelism doesn?t work.