The Mail Bag
O Captain! My Captain!
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The qualities of a captain : "it is considered an important choice for the manager of a football club: the captain is in fact expected to be the manager's correspondent on the pitch. The relationship between a manager and a captain is a crucial one. Crucial qualities of a club captain include determination and stamina, being able to get along with everybody, and being an intelligent, tactically minded player"
So where does our Phil sit with that quote? As a leader of men I would doubt him as he does not motivate on the pitch; as the interpreter of his manager's tactics I doubt that he could ever understand the confused and confusing selection processes and strategies that Moyes undertakes; as far as stamina and determination - I would give him the doubt but I would counter that by saying that he is, week in week out, Everton's worse player; as far as being intelligent and tactically ware? A simple no will suffice.
Giving a 30-year-old United reject not only the captain's arm band but a 4-year contract is the worst managerial decision Moyes has made. Not only was it against the club's policy of 1 year contracts for players aged 30 year plus but it risked alienating the much vaunted team spirit.
What did the senior players make of Carsley's departure when we kept Neville and also made him captain! With the captaincy comes responsibility and while he continues to make the right noises in the media he does not inspire on the pitch. I never thought I'd say it but now Hibbert is back Neville should be at very best a reserve on the bench where his "versatility" and experience would be best suited.
Moyes must realise that having Neville as captain and therefore pencilling his name on the team sheet first for every game restricts his selection choices and therefore his tactics. If Neville was one of our better players or was as inspirational as Gerrard I could understand the choice but he is far from being either of those.
My suspicion is that the decision to give Neville the captaincy and the extended contract has caused a failure of team spirit and is one of the major reasons for Everton?s failings this season.
Vin Ferguson, Posted 03/10/2008 at 13:55:35
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Nice post Vin, I would argue that it would be very easy to promote Moyes’s tactics this season because every opposition manager we have come up against has sussed them. A simple shout over to the defenders not to cross the half way line and another shout of "hit the strikers" when the defence has the ball is all it really seems to be. Granted, last night it was not hoofball until the last minutes of the game, but it was all too little too late. The midfield is constantly changed around to accomodate the lack of any balance or passing ability in the team while a capable looking ball playing midfielder watched from the touchlines (Castillo) in the last few games. Mr Neville is the media frontman for Everton, he talks a great game but when it comes to being out on the pitch he is gash. Lets face it the guy is a joke of a footballer albeit he works hard (so does but as captain he will play every game. Mr moyes cannot be blind or as completely demented as Mr Dodd, if he is going to play then surely he has to play right back as that is the only position where he can get away (more often than in the middle of midfield) with playing loose balls. We are stuck with this bloke for another 4 years, maybe he is being groomed for the coaching staff! Christ alive.
It’s a disgrace quite frankly to have him as captain, in no way does he represent where anyone would like our club to be. Right back maybe, captain or midfield absolutly not.
Lets just hope that his substitution on Thursday might pave the way for someone else to take up the armband
Lets just hope that his substitution on Thursday might pave the way for someone else to take up the armband
O.K. here goes - Kenwrong out; Moyes out and Neville out....that feels more complete somehow....:0)
"He’s just a shit Gary Neville, shit Gary Neville... He’s just a shit Gary Neville"
I agree Neville is the cause for our defeat last night.....no wait wasn’t it Arteta and we should sell him?
They were all not good enough and pinpointing Pip is pointless, he is the same as Hibbert, defensively, they are solid enough but are about as usefull as a castrated pornstar going forward.
Simply put we cannot expect anything from him, that is why the liege players would give him as much space as he wanted, just like Fiorintina last season however it is the others who are passing to him and not moving for the simple pass. He cannot beat a man and his team mates know that so they should show for him when he has the ball.
They were all not good enough and pinpointing Pip is pointless, he is the same as Hibbert, defensively, they are solid enough but are about as usefull as a castrated pornstar going forward.
Simply put we cannot expect anything from him, that is why the liege players would give him as much space as he wanted, just like Fiorintina last season however it is the others who are passing to him and not moving for the simple pass. He cannot beat a man and his team mates know that so they should show for him when he has the ball.
Tony Williams wrote: "I agree Neville is the cause for our defeat last night..... no wait wasn?t it Arteta and we should sell him?"
I blame Vinny Samways, Stuart Barlow, Claus Thomson, Brett Angell, Alex Nyarko, Andy Van Der Meyde, Danny Williamson, Richard Wright, Espen Baardsen, Per Krøldrup, Stephen Hughes, John Spencer, Tony Thomas, Mark Hottiger and many more as it can?t be the fault of St. David of Moyes, the Lord Almighty Kenwright or any of the current disciples in the team........
I blame Vinny Samways, Stuart Barlow, Claus Thomson, Brett Angell, Alex Nyarko, Andy Van Der Meyde, Danny Williamson, Richard Wright, Espen Baardsen, Per Krøldrup, Stephen Hughes, John Spencer, Tony Thomas, Mark Hottiger and many more as it can?t be the fault of St. David of Moyes, the Lord Almighty Kenwright or any of the current disciples in the team........
I am stuck in the middle of a desert but did try and get the game visually online for a split second; the image I received was Neville passing the ball across the halfway line with the ball stopping so easily at a Liege players feet; pathetic!
Don’t get me wrong PN has all the off field attributes as an experienced captain; he talks the talk, has a great CV with experience abroad and has shed loads of England Caps!
But as a football player he is fucking shite; always has been and always will be; I can’t actually remember a moment he has actually contributed positively while playing for us. In my opinion he will be one of downfalls of Moyses’ reign.
Don’t get me wrong PN has all the off field attributes as an experienced captain; he talks the talk, has a great CV with experience abroad and has shed loads of England Caps!
But as a football player he is fucking shite; always has been and always will be; I can’t actually remember a moment he has actually contributed positively while playing for us. In my opinion he will be one of downfalls of Moyses’ reign.
Well it seems that we may be forced to see how things go against the geordies without our captain. This according to the evertonfc site.
"Captain Phil Neville is the manager?s biggest doubt after he picked up a hamstring problem in Thursday?s game against Standard Liege."
Personally I?m extremely happy with this as last nights performance against Liege saw him wasting loads of time getting the ball, looking confused as to what to do with it and then knocking it back.
Let's maybe start attacking sides and see what can happen, who knows we might even end up scoring goals. Though the worry is now that Saha will be out through injury too.
"Captain Phil Neville is the manager?s biggest doubt after he picked up a hamstring problem in Thursday?s game against Standard Liege."
Personally I?m extremely happy with this as last nights performance against Liege saw him wasting loads of time getting the ball, looking confused as to what to do with it and then knocking it back.
Let's maybe start attacking sides and see what can happen, who knows we might even end up scoring goals. Though the worry is now that Saha will be out through injury too.
So who will be captain then if Nevilles out (Please God)!
I would go for Phil Jags; even in a poor side over the past few weeks I think he has been pretty solid.
I would go for Phil Jags; even in a poor side over the past few weeks I think he has been pretty solid.
A captain should be one of, if not the best player in the squad. If you look at all of the top teams in the world you will see this:
Chelsea: Terry
Liverpool: Gerrard
Madrid: Raul
AC MIlan: Maldini
They are 4 brilliant players, who are also brilliant captains. Sadly our Captain is neither.
Chelsea: Terry
Liverpool: Gerrard
Madrid: Raul
AC MIlan: Maldini
They are 4 brilliant players, who are also brilliant captains. Sadly our Captain is neither.
Oh god - not again. again. again. again.
Neville is a good player and doesnt deserve half the crap he gets from people that are still blinded by his past colours. For the player he is though... he is an even better captain. He is also moved around at will, never complains, never hides and never quits. So far then its been Moyes fault, BK, Neville and Arteta... who’s next? Keep ’em coming. But for gods sake - have some faith.
Neville is a good player and doesnt deserve half the crap he gets from people that are still blinded by his past colours. For the player he is though... he is an even better captain. He is also moved around at will, never complains, never hides and never quits. So far then its been Moyes fault, BK, Neville and Arteta... who’s next? Keep ’em coming. But for gods sake - have some faith.
O whingers! Our whingers!
Phillip Neville cost us the win yesterday?! He was certainly no joy to watch, but here’s a breaking newsflash: everyone in a blue shirt sucked eggs last night.
Phillip Neville cost us the win yesterday?! He was certainly no joy to watch, but here’s a breaking newsflash: everyone in a blue shirt sucked eggs last night.
First of all, Ped, I wish Neville would hide then maybe we could retain a bit more of the ball rather than watch that useless sack of shit lump it around everywhere, and then scream his ead of at any other player who dares to follow his example.
Stig, this is not a knee-jerk post but rather one written by a man who, like the rest of us, has watched Neville be consistently shit since he?s come to this club.
Stig, this is not a knee-jerk post but rather one written by a man who, like the rest of us, has watched Neville be consistently shit since he?s come to this club.
Same old, same old.
The team loses and Phil Neville is the scapegoat.
A player with many medals and international caps who’s played a large number of games in the top flight over a long time, under one of the best - if not the best - managers in the gane, and he just can’t play football, has no ability whatsoever, etc , etc...
This ill-informed Phil Neville moanathon has become tedious beyond belief now. Please pack it in and get over your own ignorance about football and footballers in general. Go and ask Alex Ferguson what he thinks about Phil Neville and his "lack of ability". Or David Moyes, or numerous England managers......
The team loses and Phil Neville is the scapegoat.
A player with many medals and international caps who’s played a large number of games in the top flight over a long time, under one of the best - if not the best - managers in the gane, and he just can’t play football, has no ability whatsoever, etc , etc...
This ill-informed Phil Neville moanathon has become tedious beyond belief now. Please pack it in and get over your own ignorance about football and footballers in general. Go and ask Alex Ferguson what he thinks about Phil Neville and his "lack of ability". Or David Moyes, or numerous England managers......
Castillo must wonder what the fuck's going on, he?s good on the ball, constantly makes himself available to defenders who don't want the ball and has already scored as many as Neville.
Like Pip or not, you would have to have sympathy for Castillo, it must be a real kick in the bollocks to be kept out by Neville at the moment.
Like Pip or not, you would have to have sympathy for Castillo, it must be a real kick in the bollocks to be kept out by Neville at the moment.
I would like to ask if anyone would put Yakubu as a winger for the next game? No? Why is that? Because he cannot play there? Phil Neville is an adequate right back for Everton because we only have Hibbert and a crocked Dane instead. As I stated above this is where he must play. How good do you really have to be to pass the ball 10 metres sideways to Giggs, Beckham, Scholes, Cantona or Keane who could all pick a pass, run at the opposition and take the game to the them? We do not possess anyone who has the ability to do this except on the rare occasion Artteta who is woefully short at the moment of form. Lets face it, Neville didn’t take the game to anyone at Man Utd was never captain and hardly got a sniff when everyone else was fit, ask Ferguson why sell him if he was THAT good John.
Vin, shite article I?m afraid. If in doubt blame Neville. It's all so bloody boring.
You say the decision to give Neville the captaincy and the extended contract has caused a failure of team spirit, but Neville has been captain for 3 seasons more or less now, including the two when we finished 5th and 6th. I also find it hard to believe that his team mates have thought, "long contract for Neville, that?s it I?ve had enough I?m not trying anymore"
Believe it or not, our failures this season are don to much more than just one player.
You say the decision to give Neville the captaincy and the extended contract has caused a failure of team spirit, but Neville has been captain for 3 seasons more or less now, including the two when we finished 5th and 6th. I also find it hard to believe that his team mates have thought, "long contract for Neville, that?s it I?ve had enough I?m not trying anymore"
Believe it or not, our failures this season are don to much more than just one player.
Phil Neville has allways been crap, end of. Now and again he gets a great cross in but when we go behind he starts going round like a headless chicken and gets himself booked. He points here there n everywhere, but when it comes to passing anything more than 10 yds it goes nowhere. I am sure hes a great pro and man but as a footballer hes crap. Moyes should appoint another captain.
A stratigic injury if I ever saw one!
Neville is crap-we all know he’s crap-but because the Mighty moyes signed him he must be good. Bollocks.
Neville is crap-we all know he’s crap-but because the Mighty moyes signed him he must be good. Bollocks.
Just woke up after a much needed sleep following my trip to Liege. My head still hurts and nothing can take away the pain.
When the players came over to applaud the fans, my reaction said how I felt. I was screaming at Neville and made a number of hand gestures, I wasnt alone. Believe me they got the message but what will it do?
We travelled a long way, spent lots of money, had 8 YES 8 fans stabbed (you won't hear that in the paper), police cleraed an Irish bar full of Everton fans... I heard tear gas was used. And then had to watch that shite.
It was like 1 step forward and 3 steps back and the fans got behind the team as we do but for what?
Fuck off, Everton, you have ripped my heart out again and don't come out and say we owe it to the fans this Sunday.
I think Neville is unfairly being made a scapegoat here. He has by no means been our worst player this season, there have been several others who, in my opinion, should shoulder more of the blame. Case in point being Arteta - what has he done this season other than hit the first man at set pieces and go missing for large periods of every game?
Let’s face it - the players have had a bad start to the season and confidence must be low in the squad. But picking out Neville as the root of all our problems on the field is just lazy and short-sighted, I’m afraid the problems run much deeper.
Let’s face it - the players have had a bad start to the season and confidence must be low in the squad. But picking out Neville as the root of all our problems on the field is just lazy and short-sighted, I’m afraid the problems run much deeper.
Phillip Neville made eight thousand passes that went nowhere. You know who else did that?
Everyone in a blue shirt!
The guy isn’t the problem.
Everyone in a blue shirt!
The guy isn’t the problem.
Andrew Laird,
Alex Ferguson saw fit to give Phil Neville 263 "sniffs" for Manchester United. They must have had a hell of a lot of injuries during Neville’s time there !!
I’m sorry but the evidence is overwhleming in favour of Neville’s ability as a top flight footballer. If you can’t or won’t accept this in light of the professional opinion of several top class football managers , then I can only assume you are clueless about football or one extremely arrogant individual.
Of course, if you have six Premiership winners medals, 3 FA cup winners medals, etc., then you have my unreserved apologies.
Bet you don’t though. do you ?
Alex Ferguson saw fit to give Phil Neville 263 "sniffs" for Manchester United. They must have had a hell of a lot of injuries during Neville’s time there !!
I’m sorry but the evidence is overwhleming in favour of Neville’s ability as a top flight footballer. If you can’t or won’t accept this in light of the professional opinion of several top class football managers , then I can only assume you are clueless about football or one extremely arrogant individual.
Of course, if you have six Premiership winners medals, 3 FA cup winners medals, etc., then you have my unreserved apologies.
Bet you don’t though. do you ?
Was Neville on the grassy knoll ? cos he gets the blame for everything else on this site, now he’s to blame for team spirit. Maybe the lack of team spirit might be caused by players annoyed by the lack of effort of Arteta but the fans still sing his name or maybe Lescott beleives the hype it could be anything we dont know but its easy we’ll blame Neville yawn. Change the record please
John Martin,
Whipping Arteta seems to be your particular song these days - consider his position in midfield, where he is, in the absence of Castillo, the only ball-playing midfielder out there.
In a 4-man midfield with Cahill, Osman, and Neville, what options does he have? I mean, WTF! He can’t be very confident in that disastrous line-up, and that’s going to affect his form.
Perhaps Moyes will get creative, and find the right midfield mix, then we can change the record to Blue Moon!
Whipping Arteta seems to be your particular song these days - consider his position in midfield, where he is, in the absence of Castillo, the only ball-playing midfielder out there.
In a 4-man midfield with Cahill, Osman, and Neville, what options does he have? I mean, WTF! He can’t be very confident in that disastrous line-up, and that’s going to affect his form.
Perhaps Moyes will get creative, and find the right midfield mix, then we can change the record to Blue Moon!
Spot on post Vince. I’d go for Jagielka as captain with Cahill as vice captain, because they are both good experienced players who I think have a good influence and set an example for the players around them with their passion and commitment to playing for Everton and they are also worthy of a place in the starting 11 in contrast to Phil Neville which raises doubts.
Now I?ve had a few bevvy?s after writing this so apologies if it doesn?t make sense, but how many of these Phil Neville supporters can actually name a game where people have said ?yeah, Neville had a good game??
I can?t for the life of me ever recall saying a quote along those lines. And this is our friggin captain who is supposed to set an example and lead from the front. This obviously leads to me questioning the manager by trying to understand his reasons for making such an appointment, plus a bumper deal, and is something I?m still to get my head around. I?m 100% for jags as captain as this fella will bleed blood for us and manages to be consistent in a difficult time.
I can?t for the life of me ever recall saying a quote along those lines. And this is our friggin captain who is supposed to set an example and lead from the front. This obviously leads to me questioning the manager by trying to understand his reasons for making such an appointment, plus a bumper deal, and is something I?m still to get my head around. I?m 100% for jags as captain as this fella will bleed blood for us and manages to be consistent in a difficult time.
It is said that we couldn’t afford Owens wages. we should have given him Neville’s and come of Moyes cash it would have been a better option
Are we ever gonna get rid of that piece of crap called Neville?
Brian
A better question would be how many times has Neville been subject to the pathectic abuse that?s come his way on here since the Liege game, this season. Answer - none.
Reason - because he has actually been one of our better players in this dismal start to the season.
But as soon as he has a bad game - which he did Thursday, although by no means was he on his own - the bile starts again.
Let's try and look beyond blaming just one player for all our ills.
A better question would be how many times has Neville been subject to the pathectic abuse that?s come his way on here since the Liege game, this season. Answer - none.
Reason - because he has actually been one of our better players in this dismal start to the season.
But as soon as he has a bad game - which he did Thursday, although by no means was he on his own - the bile starts again.
Let's try and look beyond blaming just one player for all our ills.
Hear, hear. Football is an entertainment business. Does Neville actually entertain anyone? Well, perhaps yes, the opposition are laughing their bollocks off. He may be a good talker and comes out with inspirational messages. So, give him a job as an after dinner speaker ? cos he certainly does not walk the walk.
Yes he has pedigree ? but only because he was surrounded at Man U by 10 other top class players; in an average team he looks below average. But for him to relinquish the captaincy, then another has to step up; there seems a dearth of confident leaders in his present squad ? shrinking violets ? so he who shouts loudest gets the vote.
But to us he certainly is not a Gerrard or inspirational ? I never see any kid with ?Neville? on his back - that?s the sad part for an Everton Captain.
John Taylor,
I personally do not think that 263 games is a high percentage of appearances considering the amount of games that Man Utd were involved in for the 11 seasons he was there! A fact that your Wikipedia trawling did not mention (Champions League qualifers, group stages, later rounds, FA Cup, League Cup and Premier League for which they have a very high success rate in). As I don?t have any medals of FA recognition, obviously according to your ridiculous post I am not allowed a valid argument which begs the question: do you? Let's face it you question my knowledge about football and yet you are the one saying that Neville is a good player!!
I personally do not think that 263 games is a high percentage of appearances considering the amount of games that Man Utd were involved in for the 11 seasons he was there! A fact that your Wikipedia trawling did not mention (Champions League qualifers, group stages, later rounds, FA Cup, League Cup and Premier League for which they have a very high success rate in). As I don?t have any medals of FA recognition, obviously according to your ridiculous post I am not allowed a valid argument which begs the question: do you? Let's face it you question my knowledge about football and yet you are the one saying that Neville is a good player!!
No wonder Kinnear was swearing... Facing Everton and counting on Pips slick passing game assisting his midfield, he sees this on the Everton website:
"Captain Phil Neville is the manager's biggest doubt after he picked up a hamstring problem in Thursday's game against Standard Liege"
Stephen, the reason I slate Arteta is because he is supposed to be our best player; Neville isnt, yet Neville gets slaughtered for poor performances. Yet when Arteta does, excuses come out such as yours (there aren't any other ball-playing midfielders in the team). True quality players do it for themselves: Gerrard, when surrounded by a poor midfield, inspired a CL triumph. Can you imagine Arteta producing a performance when needed because I can't. I defend Neville because almost everybody else blames him ? it should be our so-called star players getting us out of this mess but they are not.
As I have said ad infinitum on here, Neville is described as a utility player. Lord knows what this means but I think it means he is crap in every position he plays in.
We have a big problem currently as all our players are playing badly at the same time and if the Yak doesn?t score, we have had it. I think Cahill has lost the plot too. Howard deserves to be dropped as he makes too many mistakes and is costing us goals in nearly every game.
Moyes is starting to resemble a prick-teaser in the way he keeps going on about his contract.
We have a big problem currently as all our players are playing badly at the same time and if the Yak doesn?t score, we have had it. I think Cahill has lost the plot too. Howard deserves to be dropped as he makes too many mistakes and is costing us goals in nearly every game.
Moyes is starting to resemble a prick-teaser in the way he keeps going on about his contract.
John Martin,
I knew a John Martin growing up, in Orrell Park - are you the same?
I knew a John Martin growing up, in Orrell Park - are you the same?
Phill Neville was a good signing when we had the Champ League qualifiers. I thought his experience with Man Utd in the CL could benefit us. 3 years on and he has only got worse; however, he has a new 4-year contract, the captain's arm band and a place in centre midfield! Truly shocking.
No
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1 Posted 03/10/2008 at 15:51:03
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