The Mail Bag
Tim Cahill AGAIN!!
Comments (69)
Last year I posted a comment about Tim Cahill, the abilities and the downsides of Tiny Tim.
In resopnse to my comments, I got a hot reception the majority of the fans writing in to ToffeeWeb site but I also found that some surpporters agreed with me. In my opinion, last year and many of the years before, I thought that Tim Cahill was a one-trick pony! Before you start to throw your dummies out of the pram, hear me out please.
I had stated that Tim has NO pace, NO passing ability, NO skill in beating a man... Can't tackle for love nor money, and can't play in a four-man midfield. There's no doubt that Tim has the passion of our great club and that he wears his heart on his sleeve plus works his balls off in every single game. I'm not trying to sound like Tony Marsh on this subject but I expect more!!
Yes, he scores goals from time to time but we have strikers who can do that. And the main reason we play 4-5-1 is because of Tim; Moyes knows in his heart of hearts that Tim can't fulfill the roll of most modern midfielders, pass and move with pace vision, tracking back ,and playing that through ball.
I love Tim, I really do ? he has done a good job for the team ? but I think it's time for him to go. You may argue that our other midfielders aren't that great but we all know that. With Tim in the squad, it causes a problem with the formation, why have 4 good strikers at the club with only one place up for grabs!
I know I will be slated for this comment but if you really look at tim you will see he offers very little!!
Sean McKenna, Posted 06/10/2008 at 20:23:27
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You’re not exactly wrong, but just look at our record with him in the side and him not in the side over the last year.
There’s nothing else to debate.
There’s nothing else to debate.
Broken record Sean. Who gives a toss about the limitations. He wins matches for us. What more do you want??
Would have give me left testicle to have him out there on Sunday!!
Would have give me left testicle to have him out there on Sunday!!
Can’t help but add my two cents. I will give you this, Cahill is not a perfectly rounded midfielder. The point is since when was he touted as being that. He has always been an attacking midfielder. As such his goal scoring record speaks for itself.
Saying he offers very little but goals is harsh. He is one of the only players at this club who consistently shows some passion and drive. On numerous occassions Tim has played for Australia in centre midfield and looked great. He has even shown he can send in some great crosses from the wing and create opportunities.
I get your point that he isn’t the complete package, but to have a go at him while the rest of the team is playing like shit is a tad off point.
Saying he offers very little but goals is harsh. He is one of the only players at this club who consistently shows some passion and drive. On numerous occassions Tim has played for Australia in centre midfield and looked great. He has even shown he can send in some great crosses from the wing and create opportunities.
I get your point that he isn’t the complete package, but to have a go at him while the rest of the team is playing like shit is a tad off point.
I?d field 10 ponies and Tim Howard if their one trick was scoring goals.
All (most??) players have their limitations to suggest otherwise would be rediculous but to want rid of a goalscoring midfielder is stupid plain stupid!!
His job in the team is to score goals - his engine allows the team to play almost a ’4-5-2’ formation; ie he can get forward and score goals but can work back and be an integral part of the midfield.
I put it out there that while technically he may not be great, his hard work and endevour rounded off with goals is what makes him a priceless member of the squad.
His job in the team is to score goals - his engine allows the team to play almost a ’4-5-2’ formation; ie he can get forward and score goals but can work back and be an integral part of the midfield.
I put it out there that while technically he may not be great, his hard work and endevour rounded off with goals is what makes him a priceless member of the squad.
I agree that Cahill does have his limitations, but his ability to bag a goal is indispensible. However, I do have serious reservations about him playing in a 4-4-2.
I don’t think our other midfielders are good enough to carry Cahill’s limitations in a 4-man midfield. I think he either needs to be accomodated as a starter in a 5-man midfield, or come off the bench.
A bit off the subject, but what the hell has Castillo done wrong recently? He was one of our better midfielders until he got dropped. Was he biffing DM’s missus?
I don’t think our other midfielders are good enough to carry Cahill’s limitations in a 4-man midfield. I think he either needs to be accomodated as a starter in a 5-man midfield, or come off the bench.
A bit off the subject, but what the hell has Castillo done wrong recently? He was one of our better midfielders until he got dropped. Was he biffing DM’s missus?
Are you on crack?
Why can?t people stop blaming indivdual players, many of who are expected to play out of position or in highly strange formations?
The man to GO is Moyes ? he?s crap and always has been!
The man to GO is Moyes ? he?s crap and always has been!
Tiny Tim's biggest asset is his heart and never-say-die attitude, which normally motivates the players around him, but I have to agree, he is far too one-dimensional. The biggest problem is that Moyes's first two names on his team sheet are Nev and Tim which we saw against Liege is a definite no go. And of course he has to justify his £15 mil signing as well so here we go, 4-5-1 again and it's not a rocket science to work Moyes out.
I will support the blues through thick and thin but will never understand Moyes wasting of transfer money.
COYB!!!!!!!!
They used to say David Platt offered nothing if he didn?t score goals and I thought that was nonsence. Only a fool gets involved with a fools argument so I don?t know why people should spend time justifying Cahill.
Have to agree with Michael Kenrick, he scores goals and wins game. Look back through the games Tiny has scored and see if him not scoring would have changed the result. I think you’ll find we need him even if he only pops up now and then.
David Platt built an entire England career on just scoring goals and 3 big moves around Italy, I only wish genius Moyes would realise that if we build a team around getting the ball to Yak and Tim as often as possible in the box it means goals, not hoof the thing down the channels or give it to Neville and Hibbert to try and clear the top balcony.
Cahill offers nothing but goals??? Thats a damn sight more than Arteta, Osman,Neville, Felliani and the rest of the midfield are offering. Give me Cahill and goals any day above Neville and Arteta wasting the ball.
Sean, you say in your original post we have strikers who are scoring goals, can you tell me who they are?
Sean, you say in your original post we have strikers who are scoring goals, can you tell me who they are?
You?re having a laugh aren?t you? If Timmy had been playing on Sunday against the Barcodes I think he would have scored and we would have ended up getting 3 points instead of 1. That game was made for his type of play. Yeah, I know it?s his own fault he wasn?t playing.
I love him. Gives his all to Everton.
I love him. Gives his all to Everton.
"Scores goals from time to time", is that the 1 every 3 games ratio that Cahill contributes, probably only bettered in return by Lampard and Gerrard. Tim Cahill has as you know endured a horrible spell on the sidelines due to recurrent metatarsal injuries, the guy kept coming back too soon from his rehab because he loves the Club and his presence is sorely missed when he?s out. To me Cahill is a ?legend?.
Think its pretty clear that this post is utter rubbish, our results are much better when Cahill is in the side, and he is the only one player who actually gets goals against the ?big 4? for Everton and doesn't go missing like some of our others!
Cahill is an old-fashioned ?inside-forward? ? in there to support the midfield and get a few goals. He fulfills the role perfectly and was always most effective in a 4-4-1-1 formation, with Carsley covering the defence's arse. Moyes fucked up big-time when he let the little fellow go.
Maybe some of you should re-watch the second Liege game to see what Cahill does to a four-man midfield...
And to be honest, no-one can say that Cahill is more of a goal threat than Saha...
So if it's a choice of a 4-5-1 with Cahill and a 4-4-2 with Saha... Saha gets the nod every time for me.
Timmy is a luxury that a team like ours can?t really afford.
And to be honest, no-one can say that Cahill is more of a goal threat than Saha...
So if it's a choice of a 4-5-1 with Cahill and a 4-4-2 with Saha... Saha gets the nod every time for me.
Timmy is a luxury that a team like ours can?t really afford.
Although Arteta is skillful, who would you bet to score a crucial goal when we need it? Arteta or Cahill? When the team are down, who would be more of a Captain ? Arteta or Cahill ?
If Cahill regularly took corners that didn?t get past the first defender when we need goal then he would get far more criticism than Arteta. And has Arteta ever scored a better goal than Cahill?s goal at Chelsea?
Cahill provides the team with spirit, character and plenty of goals. Judge players by how he performs against the bigger teams and his record stands out. A goal in each of his 3 league games against the sky 4 last year and a goal each season gainst the shite. There are one or two strikers who are considered legends who never scored once against them.
True, Cahill has never had the all round game to play in a midfield 4. In his 4 full seasons since Cahill was signed, maybe the manager may have put the right midfield together to make this work.
True, Cahill has never had the all round game to play in a midfield 4. In his 4 full seasons since Cahill was signed, maybe the manager may have put the right midfield together to make this work.
If Stephen Hawkins scored as many as Tim I would have him in the starting line up every game, simple as that!
We have a name for people like you in australia
Yeh but if we play 2 upfront and drop Cahill, what’s the midfield four goin to be? The central midfielders wouldn’t be good enough. Osman looked ok the other day, because we were only playing against a poor Newcastle side, but playing Fellaini and Osman there on a regular basis would struggle against most teams. Osman is far too lightweight to be playing in a two man partnership in the middle and if you were to play someone else alongside Fellaini like Castillo or Neville, we’d have no creativity. The best option for 4-4-2 would be Fellaini and Arteta in the middle with Pienaar on one side and we’d need to sign another good wide player in my opinion to have a good enough midfield quartet.
I think all it boils down to what a successful team needs. Do you want a group of players whose skills complement each other and produce a good standard of attacking football or do you want a team that has to be setup in such a way that brings the best out of one individual but detracts from the overall quality of play?
When Cahill was at Millwall they played a diamond formation with two up front and Cahill just behind. Never understood why Moyes never tried it. Arteta and Pienaar would be more central and involved...they only problem is Neville or hibbert would see the ball more often on the wings.
When Cahill was at Millwall they played a diamond formation with two up front and Cahill just behind. Never understood why Moyes never tried it. Arteta and Pienaar would be more central and involved...they only problem is Neville or hibbert would see the ball more often on the wings.
Personally i believe its time to strip Neville of his captaincy for Cahill to skipper the side! Time for a change and should bring a much needed lease of life into the team!
Making Cahill captain means playing him in every match....and considering he only plays well in a 451...then that means alwasy playing a 451..
not a good choice in my opinion.
not a good choice in my opinion.
As a second striker he’s an asset, as a midfielder he shouldn’t be anywhere near the team.
I like him but I’ve always agreed with those who’ve said he’s one dimensional. He needs players around him to succeed. He needs someone to create for him, he needs someone defending behind him and he needs a striker to play off.
He’s a decent target man and a goal poacher, a very good goal poacher actually. But can he score 20 goals a season? Yakubu and Saha can and they’ve proved it.
What happens if they kick off a partnership? Where would Cahill fit in? I certainly wouldn’t want him in the middle on a regular basis.
The Arteta v Cahill comment is laughable to be honest. Cahill is given a free role, Arteta plays as a disiplined midfielder. Arteta has to cover his fullback, he has to create and he has to get on the ball and control.
Cahill can score a goal and not do anything for 80 minutes. He’s then supposedly had a good game.
Arteta is far more valuable, without him Cahill would struggle. Without Cahill Arteta would be exactly the same, he’d still have an impact. Arteta creates more goals than Cahill scores, if you combine there goal ratio and assist ratio together Arteta always comes out on top, he contributes more.
Our record with Cahill is good because we used to struggle in a 4-4-2. We had players like Carsley who could only play in one formation so we had to adapt. Cahill made the 4-4-1-1 as he could play that second strker role. If he was injured we’d revert to 4-4-2 and we’d look poor because we didn’t have the players to play that formation.
Cahill is a good player but he’s not amazing and he isn’t a must in the team. We have different attacking options this season, different players will suit different games. It’s always good to have options.
I like him but I’ve always agreed with those who’ve said he’s one dimensional. He needs players around him to succeed. He needs someone to create for him, he needs someone defending behind him and he needs a striker to play off.
He’s a decent target man and a goal poacher, a very good goal poacher actually. But can he score 20 goals a season? Yakubu and Saha can and they’ve proved it.
What happens if they kick off a partnership? Where would Cahill fit in? I certainly wouldn’t want him in the middle on a regular basis.
The Arteta v Cahill comment is laughable to be honest. Cahill is given a free role, Arteta plays as a disiplined midfielder. Arteta has to cover his fullback, he has to create and he has to get on the ball and control.
Cahill can score a goal and not do anything for 80 minutes. He’s then supposedly had a good game.
Arteta is far more valuable, without him Cahill would struggle. Without Cahill Arteta would be exactly the same, he’d still have an impact. Arteta creates more goals than Cahill scores, if you combine there goal ratio and assist ratio together Arteta always comes out on top, he contributes more.
Our record with Cahill is good because we used to struggle in a 4-4-2. We had players like Carsley who could only play in one formation so we had to adapt. Cahill made the 4-4-1-1 as he could play that second strker role. If he was injured we’d revert to 4-4-2 and we’d look poor because we didn’t have the players to play that formation.
Cahill is a good player but he’s not amazing and he isn’t a must in the team. We have different attacking options this season, different players will suit different games. It’s always good to have options.
Yet again Connor you talk absolute garbage. How on earth can you say that Cahill, as a midfielder, shouldn’t be anywhere near the first team. I never thought you could surpass yourself but that is probably the most ludicrous statement ever to be made on any Everton website. Ironically, you constantly praise Arteta and Osman who are more easy on the eye but who, for the past 5 seasons, have played one decent game in five and never, ever perform against the top teams. Your knowledge of the game leaves alot to be desired.
Steve,
That’s not what he said...the suggestion that Cahill is not good in a 442 is not a new one...
Perhaps a cursory glance at the liege game will confirm that this is indeed the case.
That’s not what he said...the suggestion that Cahill is not good in a 442 is not a new one...
Perhaps a cursory glance at the liege game will confirm that this is indeed the case.
Its been a while since I was as wound up as I am readin your post.
Now I understand that in tough times, everyone has to take a bit of critisicm but Tim is an athletic, & talented footballer who is commited, very rarely gives ball away makes very very intelligent runs, has a good first touch & as stated by all people with a brain he is a prolific scorer from midfield.
He is a fantastic player, who in my opnion can play as equally well in a 4-4-2 or a 4-5-1 contrary to what some people say. He adpats his game & still gets in goalscoring positions. IMO I would make him team captain as he is the only player in the current squad who deserves the armband of this great club, leads by example, is a born winner & seems to genuinly love it here.
Sean the reason you got shot down last time & thistime is cos your point is shite mate.
Now I understand that in tough times, everyone has to take a bit of critisicm but Tim is an athletic, & talented footballer who is commited, very rarely gives ball away makes very very intelligent runs, has a good first touch & as stated by all people with a brain he is a prolific scorer from midfield.
He is a fantastic player, who in my opnion can play as equally well in a 4-4-2 or a 4-5-1 contrary to what some people say. He adpats his game & still gets in goalscoring positions. IMO I would make him team captain as he is the only player in the current squad who deserves the armband of this great club, leads by example, is a born winner & seems to genuinly love it here.
Sean the reason you got shot down last time & thistime is cos your point is shite mate.
Utter Garbage
Let’s get rid of a true goal scoring midfielder who wears the shirt with pride and heart and then we can be left with a midfield of Osman, Neville, Pienaar and Fellaini.
The rest of the Premier League will be quaking in their boots.
Let’s get rid of a true goal scoring midfielder who wears the shirt with pride and heart and then we can be left with a midfield of Osman, Neville, Pienaar and Fellaini.
The rest of the Premier League will be quaking in their boots.
’can play equally well in a 442’?
’very rarely gives ball away’?
’has a good first touch’?
he may have a good first touch when scoring goals...but outfield that isn’t the case.
the rest of your points (especially the one about him playing equallty well in a 442) are, how do I put it....shíte mate.
’very rarely gives ball away’?
’has a good first touch’?
he may have a good first touch when scoring goals...but outfield that isn’t the case.
the rest of your points (especially the one about him playing equallty well in a 442) are, how do I put it....shíte mate.
I decided after the Liege game I wasn’t going to post on any websites again such is my apathy towards Everton at the moment.
BUT Connor, that is the biggest load of shite I have ever read on this or any other site. Utter utter rubbish. I’ve read rubbish from Dodd and Marsh and other people (myself included) but that is utter garbage mate. Just count how many points we’d have if Cahill hadn’t played at all this season - 4 points. How many points have Saha’s goals earned us?
I suggest you give up posting as well Connor because you and Sean clearly don’t know what you’re talking about.
BUT Connor, that is the biggest load of shite I have ever read on this or any other site. Utter utter rubbish. I’ve read rubbish from Dodd and Marsh and other people (myself included) but that is utter garbage mate. Just count how many points we’d have if Cahill hadn’t played at all this season - 4 points. How many points have Saha’s goals earned us?
I suggest you give up posting as well Connor because you and Sean clearly don’t know what you’re talking about.
I can’t believe some of you are slating Arteta and Cahill!!!
We have a mangaer on the side lines who is clearly limited in his abilities and it is that position which needs IMPROVING.... not changing for changes sake.
But go on, slate our most talented player who is being ruined by Moyes dour tactics of hoofball along with Mr Everton Cahill himself.
What planet are some of you on?
We have a mangaer on the side lines who is clearly limited in his abilities and it is that position which needs IMPROVING.... not changing for changes sake.
But go on, slate our most talented player who is being ruined by Moyes dour tactics of hoofball along with Mr Everton Cahill himself.
What planet are some of you on?
I can’t remember Alan Ball scoring many headers from corners or Tommy Wright scoring many goals. Stop going on about what the lad doesn’t do/isn’t his strengths and praise his strengths - which are greater than any weaknesses in his game.Tim Cahill - one of our BEST ever signings.
A lot of people seem to be eagerly missing the point here...this is not a popularity contest - it is an appraisal how to get the best from our team.
i think I remember this crap from you last season. What I don’t understand is why you think Cahill should leave the club? It’s fair enough saying we should look at other ways of playing, and Tim shouldn’t be an automatic starter (although this is totally wrong). However, it’s quite something else to say "I think it’s time for him to go".
Sure Cahill has his (numerous) flaws, but to sell our second best goal threat, who offers something no one else in the squad can, and is the only one who always plays with passion? You’re not right Sean.
Sure Cahill has his (numerous) flaws, but to sell our second best goal threat, who offers something no one else in the squad can, and is the only one who always plays with passion? You’re not right Sean.
A lot of people seem to be eagerly missing the point here...this is not a popularity contest - it is an appraisal of how to get the best from our team.
This should have been one of the shortest debates, as the first two responses pretty much sum it all up.
He scores goals and our points ratio with him in team is far better than when he is not.
QED really
He scores goals and our points ratio with him in team is far better than when he is not.
QED really
I don’t see this as being about Cahill, but about how the whole team is set out to play.
Start from the beginning. How should a team which aspires to become establshed in the top four play football? We all have our views but mamy Everton supporters would agree with something like the following:
1. You should play a prediminantly passing game.
2. All players should be comfortable on the ball.
3. You need some defensive steel in the cntre of midfield and a good passer.
4. You need some pace and trickery out wide.
5. You need effectively a ’forward four’ (like Man Utd, Chelsea, Arsenal) who can rotate positions in the game and make it hard for marking defenders.
If you agree with this, I’m not sure what role Cahill has. ’Getting on the end of things’ is not enough because it’s an indicator that we are playing the wrong type of football. Lampard ’gets on the end of things’ but offers so much besides. I don’t think Cahill is the right type of midfield player for the type of side we should be trying to become.
Start from the beginning. How should a team which aspires to become establshed in the top four play football? We all have our views but mamy Everton supporters would agree with something like the following:
1. You should play a prediminantly passing game.
2. All players should be comfortable on the ball.
3. You need some defensive steel in the cntre of midfield and a good passer.
4. You need some pace and trickery out wide.
5. You need effectively a ’forward four’ (like Man Utd, Chelsea, Arsenal) who can rotate positions in the game and make it hard for marking defenders.
If you agree with this, I’m not sure what role Cahill has. ’Getting on the end of things’ is not enough because it’s an indicator that we are playing the wrong type of football. Lampard ’gets on the end of things’ but offers so much besides. I don’t think Cahill is the right type of midfield player for the type of side we should be trying to become.
I don’t see this as being about Cahill, but about how the whole team is set out to play.
Start from the beginning. How should a team which aspires to become establshed in the top four play football? We all have our views but mamy Everton supporters would agree with something like the following:
1. You should play a prediminantly passing game.
2. All players should be comfortable on the ball.
3. You need some defensive steel in the cntre of midfield and a good passer.
4. You need some pace and trickery out wide.
5. You need effectively a ’forward four’ (like Man Utd, Chelsea, Arsenal) who can rotate positions in the game and make it hard for marking defenders.
If you agree with this, I’m not sure what role Cahill has. ’Getting on the end of things’ is not enough because it’s an indicator that we are playing the wrong type of football. Lampard ’gets on the end of things’ but offers so much besides. I don’t think Cahill is the right type of midfield player for the type of side we should be trying to become.
Start from the beginning. How should a team which aspires to become establshed in the top four play football? We all have our views but mamy Everton supporters would agree with something like the following:
1. You should play a prediminantly passing game.
2. All players should be comfortable on the ball.
3. You need some defensive steel in the cntre of midfield and a good passer.
4. You need some pace and trickery out wide.
5. You need effectively a ’forward four’ (like Man Utd, Chelsea, Arsenal) who can rotate positions in the game and make it hard for marking defenders.
If you agree with this, I’m not sure what role Cahill has. ’Getting on the end of things’ is not enough because it’s an indicator that we are playing the wrong type of football. Lampard ’gets on the end of things’ but offers so much besides. I don’t think Cahill is the right type of midfield player for the type of side we should be trying to become.
I sort of understand your frustrations Sean but to leave Timmy out or worse, to sell him would be crazy.
As soon as I started to think about Timmy the overhead kick came to mind at Chelsea!
Enough said...............
As soon as I started to think about Timmy the overhead kick came to mind at Chelsea!
Enough said...............
Broken Record of wins with and without him.
There’s nothing more dependable than our Tiny Tim!
Whenever you need a game saved, drawn or won.
He is number one! :) seven ;)
There’s nothing more dependable than our Tiny Tim!
Whenever you need a game saved, drawn or won.
He is number one! :) seven ;)
All together now.....Timmy Cahil.......Timmy Cahill......Timmy Cahill......Timmy Cahill!
Goal records don’t lie
Our piss weak, out-muscled by a nursery school, midfield is the problem , not Tim Cahill.
He reminds me of Scholes - easy to criticise, great attitude, managers dream, wins matches.
Our piss weak, out-muscled by a nursery school, midfield is the problem , not Tim Cahill.
He reminds me of Scholes - easy to criticise, great attitude, managers dream, wins matches.
Put Cahill on free transfer(hyperthetically) and eighteen of the premiur clubs would NOT, get this right NOT show any interest in signing him only Stoke long ball throw and maybe be WBA otherwise he would not create much interest.
Sean you have got this thread almost spot on but i think he would make a good impact player for Everton coming off the bench last thirty minutes or like Phil a squad player.
I realise now under Moyes rein an Evertonians expectations is limited in good quality of football played.
Sean you have got this thread almost spot on but i think he would make a good impact player for Everton coming off the bench last thirty minutes or like Phil a squad player.
I realise now under Moyes rein an Evertonians expectations is limited in good quality of football played.
Pass the crack pipe Gary!!
Are you off your head? If you seriously think only those 2 teams would be interested, then I would suggest you know nothing about football mate!
I just asked an Arsenal fan, a Newcastle fan and a Chelsea fan and they all said they’d love Cahill at their clubs. Now I know they’re not the ones making the decisions but surely that says something?!
Are you off your head? If you seriously think only those 2 teams would be interested, then I would suggest you know nothing about football mate!
I just asked an Arsenal fan, a Newcastle fan and a Chelsea fan and they all said they’d love Cahill at their clubs. Now I know they’re not the ones making the decisions but surely that says something?!
I happen to completely disagree with Sean. I actually think that tim has rarely played in a 4 man midfield to settle there. In those games where he has played just behind the front man and we have had to revert to a 4 man midfield, I have thought that Tim looks better suited to that. The problem as been that he and Carsley or he and Neville cant play in a 4 man midfield because the latter 2 have no pace.
I think he looks better coming on to the ball and dictating the game from behind the play. He supports well, gets behind the ball quick, gets forward quick and yes he can pass and create. We have rarely seen his start games in this position. Recently we are judging him on his return to fitness when he isnt at his sharpest. I would give him a go with Screech or Castillo as the holding players and let him play behind Saha and Yakubu for 10 matches and I am sure he will show how good he really is.
But as Michael says; he scores goals, enough said! Make him skipper!
I think he looks better coming on to the ball and dictating the game from behind the play. He supports well, gets behind the ball quick, gets forward quick and yes he can pass and create. We have rarely seen his start games in this position. Recently we are judging him on his return to fitness when he isnt at his sharpest. I would give him a go with Screech or Castillo as the holding players and let him play behind Saha and Yakubu for 10 matches and I am sure he will show how good he really is.
But as Michael says; he scores goals, enough said! Make him skipper!
I’d be interested what players those chelsea and arsenal fans would be willing to sacrifice to bring in Cahill...I also notice that you said ’at their clubs’...and not ’in their teams’...
@Ciaran
"so if it's a choice of a 4-5-1 with Cahill and a 4-4-2 with Saha... Saha gets the nod every time for me.."
What do you base your decision on?? This formation is going really well at the minute??
"so if it's a choice of a 4-5-1 with Cahill and a 4-4-2 with Saha... Saha gets the nod every time for me.."
What do you base your decision on?? This formation is going really well at the minute??
"NO pace, NO passing ability, NO skill in beating a man"... I think the same can be said about a certain Frank Lampard, one of the most influencial midfielders in World Club Football. Like Frank, I think its hard to put your finger on what they offer the team, apart from how sorely they are missed when they're not playing.
Well spotted, Ciaran. I didn't go so far as to ask who they would drop to use him, but that's not really the point is it?
You have to draw the line somewhere, and to say that Cahill?s only good enough for Stoke & WBA is just bollocks (I think it was Stoke?)
You have to draw the line somewhere, and to say that Cahill?s only good enough for Stoke & WBA is just bollocks (I think it was Stoke?)
I base this on 4 years of noticing that Cahill has absolutely no creativity as a provider from midfield.
Did you notice the actual decent passing football in the first half on Sunday?
I happen to think that we are actually capable of good incisive flowing football... but to do that the importance of the central role cannot be overstated... Cahill simply can?t make the pass that this role demands... and he can?t hold the ball up or dribble either.
Sunday was the first time we?ve played the 4-4-2 without either Neville or Cahill in the side...and it was telling.
So, to suggest that formation is not working when that?s the first time we?ve played it - is more than unfair.
Did you notice the actual decent passing football in the first half on Sunday?
I happen to think that we are actually capable of good incisive flowing football... but to do that the importance of the central role cannot be overstated... Cahill simply can?t make the pass that this role demands... and he can?t hold the ball up or dribble either.
Sunday was the first time we?ve played the 4-4-2 without either Neville or Cahill in the side...and it was telling.
So, to suggest that formation is not working when that?s the first time we?ve played it - is more than unfair.
Regardless of whether Cahill is good or not, I can’t honestly recall ever seeing Cahill consistently complete a string of decent passes so Im not sure how everyone is basing their argument on his midfield capabilities.
One of the worst footballers Ive ever seen was Pat Van Den Hauwe but at the time you didnt really care because he was a good defender and kicked the crap out of everyone. I suppose this is how Cahill will be remembered...’he was a bit crap really but he knew where the net was and always gave 100%’
One of the worst footballers Ive ever seen was Pat Van Den Hauwe but at the time you didnt really care because he was a good defender and kicked the crap out of everyone. I suppose this is how Cahill will be remembered...’he was a bit crap really but he knew where the net was and always gave 100%’
Yes, James it is bollocks... I certainly agree with that...
But, I think in our over-estimation of him ? we tend to ignore his limitations and the effect they have on our formations..
The people who are calling for him to be captain and the first name on the team sheet... really should evaluate his contribution to our style in certain situations.
He is a great player in what he does... but that hardly warrant a starting place for all situations... especially if we want to play passing and controlling football.
But, I think in our over-estimation of him ? we tend to ignore his limitations and the effect they have on our formations..
The people who are calling for him to be captain and the first name on the team sheet... really should evaluate his contribution to our style in certain situations.
He is a great player in what he does... but that hardly warrant a starting place for all situations... especially if we want to play passing and controlling football.
Ciaron - stop jumping on bandwagons & trying to ram your point down everyone's neck, mate. Watch the games that he has played him, note how many times he gives the ball away, watch him receive passes in tight situations, then watch him score some massive goals as he done so many times for us.
Some of the best football we played under DM came when Tim, MIkel, Pienaar & Yak were all on the pitch last season. He?s difficult for opposition to mark, he's just top drawer ffs!!
Some of the best football we played under DM came when Tim, MIkel, Pienaar & Yak were all on the pitch last season. He?s difficult for opposition to mark, he's just top drawer ffs!!
Frank Lampard... no passing ability?
Surely not!!!
Surely not!!!
Ciaran - I actually agree with you, Cahill?s a pretty poor player in many respects, but the fact remains that he will win us games.
I just asked the Arsenal fan again and he said he?d like him but they would only ever use him as a sub.
Cahill?s link play is shit, his passing is crap and he cant tackle, but selling him would be mental ? he may well be an impact player and I DO think we should play 442.
I just asked the Arsenal fan again and he said he?d like him but they would only ever use him as a sub.
Cahill?s link play is shit, his passing is crap and he cant tackle, but selling him would be mental ? he may well be an impact player and I DO think we should play 442.
How exactly am I ?jumping on a bandwagon??
I?m merely offering an opinion... and it?s an opinion which is backed by quite a lot of evidence.. starting with the last two games!!!!!!!!!
However, you?re not obliged to agree with it...
I?m merely offering an opinion... and it?s an opinion which is backed by quite a lot of evidence.. starting with the last two games!!!!!!!!!
However, you?re not obliged to agree with it...
As I suspected with the Arsenal fan... and I would assume the same with the Chelsea fan..
I completely agree with your last post.
I completely agree with your last post.
Right,
So the word according to Moyes, or some pundit... precludes everyone else from having an opinion?
O.K then... I?ll meekly accept that Neville is god after all!
So the word according to Moyes, or some pundit... precludes everyone else from having an opinion?
O.K then... I?ll meekly accept that Neville is god after all!
Steve Ryan and Alan Clarke, if you disagree with my points argue against them. I’d love to here what you have to say on the matter.
I stated he’s an asset in a 4-4-1-1 formation, I stated he’s not our best option in a 4-4-2 as he doesn’t have the creativity and passing ability needed to be our "attacking midfielder".
Ofcourse he can do a job in there, it’s not his best position though nor is he our best option.
I don’t agree with selling him either, he’s a good player to have around the team. There is no doubt about that.
I stated he’s an asset in a 4-4-1-1 formation, I stated he’s not our best option in a 4-4-2 as he doesn’t have the creativity and passing ability needed to be our "attacking midfielder".
Ofcourse he can do a job in there, it’s not his best position though nor is he our best option.
I don’t agree with selling him either, he’s a good player to have around the team. There is no doubt about that.
Fuck me Connor, you paint a more dense picture of yourself every time you post!
I’ve counter-argued you with asking how many points we have with Cahill and how many we have with Saha, like your suggestion.
I think you and Ciaran are trying to make out you have some superior knowledge of the game by declaring Cahill as a weak link, almost like you’ve spotted things no-one else has about him. Look at the amount of posts on here telling you what crap it is. They’re all wrong are they and you’re right? Have a word mate.
I’ve counter-argued you with asking how many points we have with Cahill and how many we have with Saha, like your suggestion.
I think you and Ciaran are trying to make out you have some superior knowledge of the game by declaring Cahill as a weak link, almost like you’ve spotted things no-one else has about him. Look at the amount of posts on here telling you what crap it is. They’re all wrong are they and you’re right? Have a word mate.
Cant believe what I?m reading here. Saha 20 goals a season, how long ago was that? Talk of recent performances. Saha was the invisible man in last week's game, he was totally inept, truly awful. Cahill is not only exceptional at arriving in the box but has a better understanding with Yakubu than anyone else at the club and created many of the openings which enabled Yakubu to notch up a healthy goal return last term. He?s one of the few players who can actually tackle.
The reason we?re we?re forced into 4-5-1 is simple: Osman is next to useless in a 4-4-2 formation. Fellaini had to work his ass off on Sunday to bail him out. If Cahill had played, we?d have won it comfortably. We are a much better team with Cahill playing and as others have pointed out our results show it.
Haven't you seen how many times Timmy has won games for Australia two. Don;t you remember him scoring 2 goals against Japan in the 81st minute and 83rd. Also in the Asian cup he scored in the 90th minute to keep us in the Championship.
With Tim in the side we provide a greater goal threat. When the chips are down and up against the top4, the other ’midfielders’ go missing. Says it all really.
Can?t believe some of the criticisms of Tim Cahill. EVERY player has his weaknesses, there isn?t a footballer who has played the game who was/is good at every aspect of the game. Neville Southall great keeper - but how many goals did he score? A silly fact? Yes! But the point is let?s stop talking about what Cahill can?t do and rejoice in what he can do. He may not be a "ball winning" midfielder as Lee Carsley or Peter Reid but he is a fine attacking midfield player.
Blimey, Kevin Sheedy couldn?t tackle his way out of a papar bag ? but he was in the team to be a creative midfield player. Tim is in the team to be an attacking midfield player primarily. Just as Lescott?s first job is to be a defender. Howard?s is to keep goal etc. Get off Cahill?s back. We have a real diamond of a player here ? about time some of you realised that.
Alan Clarke,
I give my opinion and I expect people to disagree with it or agree with it. If they disagree with it then I?d like to hear their points. Is there anything wrong with that, that?s what Toffeeweb is all about isn?t it? Giving your opinion and discussing Everton.
On your Saha v Cahill point, Saha has only just joined us and isn?t fit. That is quite obvious, he?s also trying to learn a partnership with Yakubu which doesn?t always click straight away.
What I?m doing is saying he?s a quality player capable on his day of breaking the Yakubu-Cahill partnership depending who?s on form. Whether that?s Yakubu or Cahill?s place who knows, he does have a lot of ability though.
Our record with Cahill is good in a 4-4-1-1 or a 4-5-1, I?ve said time and time again he is an asset in that formation. If we go 4-5-1 he?s a must in the team.
I?m always open to options though, I like to see different combinations and I like to see competition for places. In Yakubu, Saha and Cahill we have that.
If we go 4-4-2 though I don?t see where Cahill fits in, Can you see where he fits in? I?m just basing this from what I?ve seen in a 4-4-2. Inconsistent performances, a lack of positional sense and a player who at times looks a little one dimensional in that position. He?ll chip in with goals from set pieces yes but in terms of all round play from that POSITION he doesn?t offer enough in my opinion.
Some people seem afraid to admit this, Steve Ryan is one of them. He thinks Cahill?s god, a must in the team. I don?t agree with that, no one bar probably the wide players (because we don?t have any others) should be a must in the team.
I give my opinion and I expect people to disagree with it or agree with it. If they disagree with it then I?d like to hear their points. Is there anything wrong with that, that?s what Toffeeweb is all about isn?t it? Giving your opinion and discussing Everton.
On your Saha v Cahill point, Saha has only just joined us and isn?t fit. That is quite obvious, he?s also trying to learn a partnership with Yakubu which doesn?t always click straight away.
What I?m doing is saying he?s a quality player capable on his day of breaking the Yakubu-Cahill partnership depending who?s on form. Whether that?s Yakubu or Cahill?s place who knows, he does have a lot of ability though.
Our record with Cahill is good in a 4-4-1-1 or a 4-5-1, I?ve said time and time again he is an asset in that formation. If we go 4-5-1 he?s a must in the team.
I?m always open to options though, I like to see different combinations and I like to see competition for places. In Yakubu, Saha and Cahill we have that.
If we go 4-4-2 though I don?t see where Cahill fits in, Can you see where he fits in? I?m just basing this from what I?ve seen in a 4-4-2. Inconsistent performances, a lack of positional sense and a player who at times looks a little one dimensional in that position. He?ll chip in with goals from set pieces yes but in terms of all round play from that POSITION he doesn?t offer enough in my opinion.
Some people seem afraid to admit this, Steve Ryan is one of them. He thinks Cahill?s god, a must in the team. I don?t agree with that, no one bar probably the wide players (because we don?t have any others) should be a must in the team.
Alan,
Nice use of dismissive arrogance while accusing someone else of that very thing..
I hear there?s a word for that.
You?re suggestion that Saha is not the better option is flawed by the very fact that he has played sod all football...
Connor provides reasoning...you provide...?Cahill?s fúckin brill?...and just because the majority seem to be of the same ilk of you, doesn?t necessarily indicate you are right!
Behave.
P.S Nevermind footballing nous, if you think cahill can play effectively in a 4-4-2 - then its your eyesight that is in question - not your footballing acumem.
Nice use of dismissive arrogance while accusing someone else of that very thing..
I hear there?s a word for that.
You?re suggestion that Saha is not the better option is flawed by the very fact that he has played sod all football...
Connor provides reasoning...you provide...?Cahill?s fúckin brill?...and just because the majority seem to be of the same ilk of you, doesn?t necessarily indicate you are right!
Behave.
P.S Nevermind footballing nous, if you think cahill can play effectively in a 4-4-2 - then its your eyesight that is in question - not your footballing acumem.
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For that reason, and for that reason alone, he merits his place.