The Mail Bag
Well it worked before!
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When Lee Carsley bid farewell at the end of last season, everyone wished him well; some felt he was no more than a journeyman and he would soon be forgotten. Others knew better, they had long since recognised Carsley's value. Although unspectacular, he was brave and saw danger very early; his ability to snuff out danger gave us a sort of assurance. The better footballers were given a freedom they can only dream about now.
Two years ago, Davey Moyes confined Alan Stubbs to the scrap heap selling him to Sunderland. Everton quite simply fell apart. The football community, especially the gobshites, fell about laughing when Moyes brought Stubbsy back, but, incredibly it worked. Stubbsy, having got the deal he wanted, steadied the ship and Moyes was given a further couple of seasons to sort his defence out.
Moyes quite clearly didn't learn from his error: before you unload any key player, you need to replace him. I wonder what price I'd get for a Carsley return in the January window... ???
Dave Wilson, Posted 07/10/2008 at 19:09:16
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"Moyes clearly didn?t learn from his error" ... shock horror, there's a turn up for the book, nobody saw that one coming. When he is finally (soon I hope) called to be sentenced, he will ask for 47 previous offenses to be taken into consideration.
Lee Carsley wanted a two year deal, we only offered a one year deal, that?s why he left. A catastrophic error, penny-pinching at its worst.
Or maybe we could get a younger, better version of Carsley?
I think it’s quite obvious that we haven’t replaced him, alot of it is down to all the farce in the summer. We had some many problems that we ended up loaning a Ecaudorian midfielder from Serbian football and wanted him to replace Carsley. It doesn’t look like it’s going to happen.
Castillo must have been well down the list, Fellaini wasn’t first choice either. Just shows what a shambles we are, we can’t even replace Carsley.
I think it’s quite obvious that we haven’t replaced him, alot of it is down to all the farce in the summer. We had some many problems that we ended up loaning a Ecaudorian midfielder from Serbian football and wanted him to replace Carsley. It doesn’t look like it’s going to happen.
Castillo must have been well down the list, Fellaini wasn’t first choice either. Just shows what a shambles we are, we can’t even replace Carsley.
Connor
I like that idea, a younger better version tha Carsley. Who did you have in mind mate? Someone who would :
A) be available?
B) be affordable?
C) would actually want to play for us?
Moyes has proved with Stubbsy, Manny + Tommy Grav that h'es more than happy to return to the devil he knows
Don't discount a Carsley return.
I like that idea, a younger better version tha Carsley. Who did you have in mind mate? Someone who would :
A) be available?
B) be affordable?
C) would actually want to play for us?
Moyes has proved with Stubbsy, Manny + Tommy Grav that h'es more than happy to return to the devil he knows
Don't discount a Carsley return.
Dave Wilson,
I think we could all name a few players, It’s up to Moyes though. I’d like to see who we get linked to, then I’ll have a better idea of what where looking at.
Your right about Moyes going for ex players, it wouldn’t suprise me at all. If I could I’d take Carsley and Fernandes back right now.
Hopefully Castillo and Fellaini step up though, that would the best option.
I think we could all name a few players, It’s up to Moyes though. I’d like to see who we get linked to, then I’ll have a better idea of what where looking at.
Your right about Moyes going for ex players, it wouldn’t suprise me at all. If I could I’d take Carsley and Fernandes back right now.
Hopefully Castillo and Fellaini step up though, that would the best option.
I was surprised that Castillo didn’t get a run out for the reserves last night. He’s supposed to be the one earmarked for the Carsley role and needs games. Moyes would have loved to keep Carsley, but it was clear that non-footballing reasons were behind the move. Say what you like about Moyesey but there’s no reason the likes of Yobo, Cahill, Arteta and Lescott would sign extended deals and reaffirm their committment to the club if they doubted him at all and they’re closer to it than we are.
Whatever happened to Shandy Andy?? Was playing well pre-season games, looking fitter, slimmer and eager, but went off with hamstring injury. Don’t know much about sporting injuries but how long does a hamstring injury normally last?
Carsley eh... one man saviour of a football club, Unsung hero (even though his praise has been over the top for years) and all things to all men..
Here?s what Carsley was... an average midfielder who couldn?t pass, score or dribble, but who could put in a decent tackle on the edge of our box..
WOW.... apparently losing such a limited player has resulted in us becoming so inept in all areas of the pitch.... including goalkeeping!
Or is it a case of psychologically looking for every excuse under the sun?
The major fuck up we made was missing our on Diarra who cost Pompey a miserable 5million pounds. Losing Carsley is not the problem... the whole behind-the-scenes keystone cops attitude and the mistakes of individual players is.
Here?s what Carsley was... an average midfielder who couldn?t pass, score or dribble, but who could put in a decent tackle on the edge of our box..
WOW.... apparently losing such a limited player has resulted in us becoming so inept in all areas of the pitch.... including goalkeeping!
Or is it a case of psychologically looking for every excuse under the sun?
The major fuck up we made was missing our on Diarra who cost Pompey a miserable 5million pounds. Losing Carsley is not the problem... the whole behind-the-scenes keystone cops attitude and the mistakes of individual players is.
Is that Lassana "decent offer and I?ll be off" Diarra. Undoubtedly a useful player; however, I?d really have concerns at his commitment and discipline. As for Carsley, he?s literally a white Makelele and Real Madrid found out to their cost what happened when they got rid of him when he wanted parity.
Ciar’an... its simple, just check the results with Carsley in the team and then when he’s not in the team.. you don’t have to be too bright to work it out. I think the penny has finally dropped with Connor at last!
I posted a similar message on TPF the other day and was told in no uncertain terms that Carsley left purely for family reasons (and that I was blind and stupid). However, I?m pretty sure that he would have stayed if offered a two-year deal. I don?t care how sad it is that we are relying on a 34-year-old Championship player to steady the ship, let's just try and prise him back, we need him!! The biggest benefit is that he wouldn?t take 6 months to bed into our patterns and style of play.
Ah Mark!...but you do have to be bright - (well at least willing to rationalise) to realise that contributing those results to Carsley is a non-sequitur.
We were absolutely crap in the last third of last season; by your logic,that's Carsley?s fault as well!
We didn?t buy (I doubt both Fella?s and Castillo?s credentials in that position) and are not playing with a competent defensive midfielder at the moment - that is the problem - not that Carsley is some sort of god who was irreplaceable!
And Connor is not accepting that line of reason... in fact he is right in line with the rational approach that there are various factors at play - not least the fact that we didn?t replace him!
Mark,
Carsely, the white Makelele?
behave yourself!
We were absolutely crap in the last third of last season; by your logic,that's Carsley?s fault as well!
We didn?t buy (I doubt both Fella?s and Castillo?s credentials in that position) and are not playing with a competent defensive midfielder at the moment - that is the problem - not that Carsley is some sort of god who was irreplaceable!
And Connor is not accepting that line of reason... in fact he is right in line with the rational approach that there are various factors at play - not least the fact that we didn?t replace him!
Mark,
Carsely, the white Makelele?
behave yourself!
Ciaran
How did Diarra play at Eastlands a couple of weeks ago ?
Just for the record Carsley, scored more goals than his counterparts at chelsea + Liverpool -was it 20 million the shite payed for him ? - He took a better free kick that Arteta, won more headers than the hole of the current midfield put together ever willl. his major strength though was his ability to spot danger in its infancy while the likes of Yobo and Lescot were in a coma
He couldnt dribble and wasnt a prolific scorer, but thats not the function of the guy who occupies that position - Name me a defensive midfielder in world football who does those things ?
I warned people who called him average how quickly they’d realise his value and how much it would cost to replace him - by the way, who would you replace him with ? -
Carsley is not your exotic south american and he didnt come with an astonomical price tag, but average ?
You were’nt watching the same games as me mate
How did Diarra play at Eastlands a couple of weeks ago ?
Just for the record Carsley, scored more goals than his counterparts at chelsea + Liverpool -was it 20 million the shite payed for him ? - He took a better free kick that Arteta, won more headers than the hole of the current midfield put together ever willl. his major strength though was his ability to spot danger in its infancy while the likes of Yobo and Lescot were in a coma
He couldnt dribble and wasnt a prolific scorer, but thats not the function of the guy who occupies that position - Name me a defensive midfielder in world football who does those things ?
I warned people who called him average how quickly they’d realise his value and how much it would cost to replace him - by the way, who would you replace him with ? -
Carsley is not your exotic south american and he didnt come with an astonomical price tag, but average ?
You were’nt watching the same games as me mate
Ciarán - I’m amased at your lack of apreciation for Lee Carsley. You either don’t go to many matches, or just never saw what he did for the team.
Yes, he might be an oversung ’unsung hero’, but he got better and better with each season he played for us and was a leader in midfield (which we seem to lack now). All the players loved him, and he was a vital part of the dressing room (if you’ve ever seen some of his interviews, they’re dead funny). So I think its obvious to most Evertonians (with half a footballing brain) just how hard it would be to replace him.
Having said that, I certainly wouldn’t want Moyes to sign him on a 5 month deal in Jan - we need to fill that position with a hard working player with real leadership skills and stay for the next 5 years.
Yes, he might be an oversung ’unsung hero’, but he got better and better with each season he played for us and was a leader in midfield (which we seem to lack now). All the players loved him, and he was a vital part of the dressing room (if you’ve ever seen some of his interviews, they’re dead funny). So I think its obvious to most Evertonians (with half a footballing brain) just how hard it would be to replace him.
Having said that, I certainly wouldn’t want Moyes to sign him on a 5 month deal in Jan - we need to fill that position with a hard working player with real leadership skills and stay for the next 5 years.
I see your still ignoring the rational argument...and presenting the case that everything going wrong is simply due to carsley going.
Im afraid if that’s the level of your reasoning then no-one can present a case against it.
Im afraid if that’s the level of your reasoning then no-one can present a case against it.
Spot on Dave Wilson... the best players in the world in that position are the likes of Gatusso, Makalele and possibly Hargreves (debatable)... but the point is that none are the type to pick that killer pass. They’re there to win tackles and play it simple... and of course keep defensive shape within the team. If they do their job well, the centre halves won’t get pulled all over the place.
Carsley was one of the best in the Prem at this job, I don’t think there’s anyone in our squad who could come close... we need to buy that man in Jan (but not Carsley - lets look forward).
Carsley was one of the best in the Prem at this job, I don’t think there’s anyone in our squad who could come close... we need to buy that man in Jan (but not Carsley - lets look forward).
’He’s dead funny’?
Well that certainly swings it.
Duncan,
Just because there’s no-one in our team who can do Carley’s job, doesn’t mean that losing him is the single reason why this season has went to shít...I find it more appropriate to suggest not replacing him IS A CONTRIBUTORY factor in that connundrum!
In my opinion, he was overated and would have been easy to replace with a superior player given a bit of money...but we didnt do that...even though we purported to have bought two players of that ilk...it seems we bought none!
And in my opinion Carsley couldn’t do the simple things that you praise those other players for...let alone having the speed of a dead elephant.
Well that certainly swings it.
Duncan,
Just because there’s no-one in our team who can do Carley’s job, doesn’t mean that losing him is the single reason why this season has went to shít...I find it more appropriate to suggest not replacing him IS A CONTRIBUTORY factor in that connundrum!
In my opinion, he was overated and would have been easy to replace with a superior player given a bit of money...but we didnt do that...even though we purported to have bought two players of that ilk...it seems we bought none!
And in my opinion Carsley couldn’t do the simple things that you praise those other players for...let alone having the speed of a dead elephant.
Ciaran
the article is about Carsley. No one claimed his leaving was the cause of ALL our problems, only you said that,
Even you cant deny replacing him is a problem
Strange how all the people who describe him as average, dont seem to be able to name a viable, affordable alternative
Still, the challenge is out there if anyone can
the article is about Carsley. No one claimed his leaving was the cause of ALL our problems, only you said that,
Even you cant deny replacing him is a problem
Strange how all the people who describe him as average, dont seem to be able to name a viable, affordable alternative
Still, the challenge is out there if anyone can
Cia’ran.. there’s none so blind as those who cannot see.. I think you’ve dug your heels in so far on this one that your determined not to see.
Alou Diarra, Sean Davis, Rio Mavuba, Nigel De Jong, Scott Parker etc.
Long term and short term players who would do a job at this club in the Carsley position.
Long term and short term players who would do a job at this club in the Carsley position.
Ciarán - retreat gracefully, you’re wrong that he could have been easily replaced. Simple as that.
And quoting the bit I mentioned about him being ’dead funny’ as an argument is childish. It just shows that you’ve got no strong argument, but just want to be a pain in the arse!
And quoting the bit I mentioned about him being ’dead funny’ as an argument is childish. It just shows that you’ve got no strong argument, but just want to be a pain in the arse!
Mindless cliches now as well!
Dear christ.
A bird in the hand and all that...
Anyway, back to the merits of the point in hand..
There are plenty of replies to the article (and on this and other sites in general ) suggesting and implying that losing Carsley is the source of all our woes..in fact the article itself categorically states that it was an error to let him go...(I DON’T THINK IT WAS) , another post even suggests that he was the white makelele..and a further one asks us to accept the non-sequitur in comparing our results when carsley was here against results when he wasn’t!!
So, your wrong - people are suggesting his absence as the source of our problems...and im entitled to address that opinion if I have one that’s contrary to it..
I named a viable alternative in my first post...and i’m sure there’s hundreds all over the continent....can i name one that would cost a fiver...probably not.
And of course I’m not denying not replacing him is a problem..But thats completely different from stating that not having Carsely himself here is the problem.
P.S As for the person who suggests I have dug myself into a position I do not agree with or cannot validate.
catch a grip.
Dear christ.
A bird in the hand and all that...
Anyway, back to the merits of the point in hand..
There are plenty of replies to the article (and on this and other sites in general ) suggesting and implying that losing Carsley is the source of all our woes..in fact the article itself categorically states that it was an error to let him go...(I DON’T THINK IT WAS) , another post even suggests that he was the white makelele..and a further one asks us to accept the non-sequitur in comparing our results when carsley was here against results when he wasn’t!!
So, your wrong - people are suggesting his absence as the source of our problems...and im entitled to address that opinion if I have one that’s contrary to it..
I named a viable alternative in my first post...and i’m sure there’s hundreds all over the continent....can i name one that would cost a fiver...probably not.
And of course I’m not denying not replacing him is a problem..But thats completely different from stating that not having Carsely himself here is the problem.
P.S As for the person who suggests I have dug myself into a position I do not agree with or cannot validate.
catch a grip.
Connor
Two not affordable
FOUR not good enough - are you seriously suggesting Sean Davis ?
And the other ones got a worse attendance record than Saha
Two not affordable
FOUR not good enough - are you seriously suggesting Sean Davis ?
And the other ones got a worse attendance record than Saha
Duncan,
Strange logic.
The fact that you brought up that Carsely is considered ?dead funny? somehow detracts from my argument?
It was ridiculed - and rightly so... it has no place in a serious discussion and quite frankly neither do puerile dilalectics like ?retreat gracefully?.
Strange logic.
The fact that you brought up that Carsely is considered ?dead funny? somehow detracts from my argument?
It was ridiculed - and rightly so... it has no place in a serious discussion and quite frankly neither do puerile dilalectics like ?retreat gracefully?.
Dave Wilson,
Do we actually know how much money we have? How do we know how much these players would cost.
We don’t which is why I said realistically we should wait until we actually get linked to someone of that ilk.
What’s wrong with Sean Davis? He’s a decent player, he’s disiplined and he gets stuck in. I’m sure he could fill that role. Portsmouth fans certainly appreaciate him.
His best position is as the only defensive midfielder in a 4-5-1 or 4-3-3 formation. He’d be an ok short term solution.
Or does the player have to world class and a big name? I don’t think so, someone who is disiplined and natural to that position would do a job.
Do we actually know how much money we have? How do we know how much these players would cost.
We don’t which is why I said realistically we should wait until we actually get linked to someone of that ilk.
What’s wrong with Sean Davis? He’s a decent player, he’s disiplined and he gets stuck in. I’m sure he could fill that role. Portsmouth fans certainly appreaciate him.
His best position is as the only defensive midfielder in a 4-5-1 or 4-3-3 formation. He’d be an ok short term solution.
Or does the player have to world class and a big name? I don’t think so, someone who is disiplined and natural to that position would do a job.
Connor,
We don't know how much we have, we both have a good idea though
and your right again, we don't know how much the players on your list would cost, but again we could assume that in the current climate the wont go for less than what their respective clubs have paid for them.
Its curious that Two Pompey players are put forward.
Even given our defensive woes, do you really believe we?ll concede more than them this year, or than West Ham for that matter.
And yes, I agree again, a disciplined player would "do a job" but I believe Carsley more than did a job, and any of your alternatives would cost us a lot more without being as good.
I thinK you underestimate the importance of this position, generally the better the Defensive MF player, the better the team.
We don't know how much we have, we both have a good idea though
and your right again, we don't know how much the players on your list would cost, but again we could assume that in the current climate the wont go for less than what their respective clubs have paid for them.
Its curious that Two Pompey players are put forward.
Even given our defensive woes, do you really believe we?ll concede more than them this year, or than West Ham for that matter.
And yes, I agree again, a disciplined player would "do a job" but I believe Carsley more than did a job, and any of your alternatives would cost us a lot more without being as good.
I thinK you underestimate the importance of this position, generally the better the Defensive MF player, the better the team.
I think Carsley was underrated and while the team needs to adapt confidence has ebbed away through bad results. Moyes will figure it out, he always does.
"Even given our defensive woes, do you really believe we?ll concede more than them this year, or than West Ham for that matter"
I’m sure Portsmouth kept more clean sheets than us last year Dave, I could be wrong but I remember looking at the list of clean sheets last season, we where 6th behind them in 5th.
Anyway, I’m willing to give the new boys time like Carsley got when he joined. Hopefully with a more settled team Castillo could fill in the position.
We’ll have to wait and see.
I’m sure Portsmouth kept more clean sheets than us last year Dave, I could be wrong but I remember looking at the list of clean sheets last season, we where 6th behind them in 5th.
Anyway, I’m willing to give the new boys time like Carsley got when he joined. Hopefully with a more settled team Castillo could fill in the position.
We’ll have to wait and see.
Anyone remember that Monty Python sketch "is this the right room for an argument?"... well Ciarán reminds me very much of the character played by John Cleese!!!
Duncan.
Ad-hominem is the word for that approach.
Nevermind the dellusion of thinking you are addressing your adoring masses.
Ad-hominem is the word for that approach.
Nevermind the dellusion of thinking you are addressing your adoring masses.
Getting Carsley back is an absolutely, horrifically, appalling idea.
He was limited and one-dimensional. Did a great job for us and was clearly a top bloke but not the sort of player that should be in our side.
I think there’s little doubt the results this season would have been better if Carsley was still with us but that’s no reason to consider resigning the guy.
He was limited and one-dimensional. Did a great job for us and was clearly a top bloke but not the sort of player that should be in our side.
I think there’s little doubt the results this season would have been better if Carsley was still with us but that’s no reason to consider resigning the guy.
If he was that good, why couldn't he play in a 4-man midfield? I'm sorry but if we can't replace Carsley then we really are in the shit.
We really are in the shit... if you haven't noticed,
the teams that came up are doing pretty well. Normally you would expect that at least two of them will go down again but at the moment they don?t look as though they will... Do you think Spurs and Newcastle will go down? I don?t think so and that could well leave us in the mix for the drop.
Who up next, Man Utd and Arsenal... Oh happy days. We could well be in the bottom three after we?ve played them. It's not just Lee Carsley who is under estimated, it's also that vital ingredient... confidence. Who said no more boom and bust? Was it Gordon Brown or David Moyes. I wish someone with a load of dosh would hurry up and buy the club, I?m getting pissed off with this.
Steve,
I share your concerns but no team with Yakubu in it will be relegated it is too early to judge but I think the teams for the drop are Stoke, Bolton and Fulham with maybe West Brom slipping down there after Christmas. Everton don?t do relegation.
I share your concerns but no team with Yakubu in it will be relegated it is too early to judge but I think the teams for the drop are Stoke, Bolton and Fulham with maybe West Brom slipping down there after Christmas. Everton don?t do relegation.
Jesus... Steve... stop being so negative! We are not going to get relegated.. stop being ridiculous! I do agree that Carsley was a hell of a player.. and him going is ONE of the reasons why we are not playing as well.
But you can tell this is clearly not our season. I think by christmas time, Fellaini and Castillo will be playing better, and I’m sure by the end of the season, Fellaini will probably play that role better than Carsley once he’s settled in.
We didnt do very well in the transfer front for this season, and we got two very good players central/defensive midfielders, but it’s gonna take them ages to adapt properly. Moyes should have got someone else more experienced and disciplined, to play that role.
Saying that, I might be kicking myself saying that, because by next season, I think Fellaini will be one of our key players.
Do you reckon maybe the loss of Jacobsen might be a reason? He could have easily slotted in at right back.
But you can tell this is clearly not our season. I think by christmas time, Fellaini and Castillo will be playing better, and I’m sure by the end of the season, Fellaini will probably play that role better than Carsley once he’s settled in.
We didnt do very well in the transfer front for this season, and we got two very good players central/defensive midfielders, but it’s gonna take them ages to adapt properly. Moyes should have got someone else more experienced and disciplined, to play that role.
Saying that, I might be kicking myself saying that, because by next season, I think Fellaini will be one of our key players.
Do you reckon maybe the loss of Jacobsen might be a reason? He could have easily slotted in at right back.
I don’t think we will be relegated but I fear that unless confidence improves we could well flirt with relegation. Who would have even considered it at the end of last season, certainly not me. I do think there is every chance that we could be in the bottom three after the next two games but there is a long way to go. Don’t know if I’d have Fulham in the final bottom three. A lot of players have come in there. The managers very experienced and I don’t think he’s anyone’s fool. I think Moyes has got to persist with Fellaini and just drill him into that defensive midfield role... for 15m you would think he would be the ready made job! Could’nt really comment on Jacobsen, we’ve not exactly seen a lot of him but I don’t like players with an injury record. I know there are the exceptions (Ried and Grey) but generally speaking your better of steering well clear.
It is all about opinions mate and a wise man once said ?an opinion can never be wrong? but Fulham just scraped home last season and personally speaking I can't stand them as a club ?maybe I am letting my heart rule my head in tipping them to fall out the trap door... fingers crossed!
Why not bring back Barry Horne just like Joe Royle tried.....shit....look what happend to him!
Sean,
Keep your hair on, I was only offering my opinion. As a matter of fact I hope Fulham go down as well, I’m fed up getting beat by them at the Cottage! I thought we’d seen the back of them last year but worst luck. No matter how bad they are playing they always turn us over.
Keep your hair on, I was only offering my opinion. As a matter of fact I hope Fulham go down as well, I’m fed up getting beat by them at the Cottage! I thought we’d seen the back of them last year but worst luck. No matter how bad they are playing they always turn us over.
Steve Edwards
The fact we were a far better team that got far better results with Carsley in the team means less than the opinions of a few people on here.
I watched Lee Carsely home and away for years. I have spoken to several current and ex-players about Everton and they all raved about him and what he did on and off the pitch. I have spoken to Lee Carsley himself and you will never meet a more straight and honest fella.
We are missing Carsley badly, and if he was going to be so easy to replace with a yard dog from the First Division WHY THE FUCK WASN’T HE SO EASILY REPLACED?
Perhaps if Lee Carsley was better on Championship Manager then a few more fans would rate him for what he did for us. I don’t hear Chelsea and Real Madrid fans slagging off Makelele for not scoring or dribbling.
The fact we were a far better team that got far better results with Carsley in the team means less than the opinions of a few people on here.
I watched Lee Carsely home and away for years. I have spoken to several current and ex-players about Everton and they all raved about him and what he did on and off the pitch. I have spoken to Lee Carsley himself and you will never meet a more straight and honest fella.
We are missing Carsley badly, and if he was going to be so easy to replace with a yard dog from the First Division WHY THE FUCK WASN’T HE SO EASILY REPLACED?
Perhaps if Lee Carsley was better on Championship Manager then a few more fans would rate him for what he did for us. I don’t hear Chelsea and Real Madrid fans slagging off Makelele for not scoring or dribbling.
I wish I had hair to keep on!
No, we can't let them go down until we win at Craven Cottage... and ? what do you know ? it is the last game of the season. We can seal their fate with an away win courtesy of a Johnson own goal in the 90th minute.
No, we can't let them go down until we win at Craven Cottage... and ? what do you know ? it is the last game of the season. We can seal their fate with an away win courtesy of a Johnson own goal in the 90th minute.
What I don't understand is that Moyes said he didn't buy Fellani to replace the Carsley role, which would mean Castillo is Carsley?s replacement! But he's not playing? So I just dont understand what midfield system we're playing. Also Castillo looked ok in his first few games, but is no longer getting a chance! I really don't understand what's going on unless someone else comes in in January.
Ciaran, Do you ever agree with anything that anybody says on here ?
Nick Armitage,
Because we didn’t spend anything on replacing him, we loaned an Ecaudorian who Moyes openly admitted he’d never seen play before.
If we’d have spend money and got a proven player we’d be fine, please stop trying to pretend that the man was unreplaceable. That is far from the case, we just didn’t replace him.
It’s just like me saying if he’s so good why is he playing in the Championship, why did I see him struggling in his first game of the Championship season? He did a job for us, we adapted to a system that he fit into and as a now we have bought in anyone who can do a job.
People have there own eyes and there own opinions, I never rated Carsley because he was limited. He was a good defender yes but he never ever showed for the ball in possession, he never gave our defenders an outlet and he was only useful in one formation.
It’s got nothing to do with not being able to dribble, it’s the fact that he couldn’t do anything bar tackle, block and intercept. The modern day defensive midfielders needs more than that, if you watch Makelele play off the ball you’ll see the difference. He’s constantly showing for ball, moving into intelligent positions and made simple but effective passes.
We miss Carsley because we have no one else, not because he was a world class, world beating midfield player. Not at all.
Because we didn’t spend anything on replacing him, we loaned an Ecaudorian who Moyes openly admitted he’d never seen play before.
If we’d have spend money and got a proven player we’d be fine, please stop trying to pretend that the man was unreplaceable. That is far from the case, we just didn’t replace him.
It’s just like me saying if he’s so good why is he playing in the Championship, why did I see him struggling in his first game of the Championship season? He did a job for us, we adapted to a system that he fit into and as a now we have bought in anyone who can do a job.
People have there own eyes and there own opinions, I never rated Carsley because he was limited. He was a good defender yes but he never ever showed for the ball in possession, he never gave our defenders an outlet and he was only useful in one formation.
It’s got nothing to do with not being able to dribble, it’s the fact that he couldn’t do anything bar tackle, block and intercept. The modern day defensive midfielders needs more than that, if you watch Makelele play off the ball you’ll see the difference. He’s constantly showing for ball, moving into intelligent positions and made simple but effective passes.
We miss Carsley because we have no one else, not because he was a world class, world beating midfield player. Not at all.
I think by 2008, every Evertonian far and wide recognised the importance of Lee Carsley. Especially after 3 years of him being widely reported in national press as our ?most underrated player?. Not least DM. He left, though, to move back to Brum to be closer to his family.
Can’t be bothered reading all of the above, so regrets if it’s already been noted - I watched Birmingham v QPR on the box last w/end. Cars was playing for Brum for a while, then was subbed. He looked no better or worse than anyone else going around - in other words, on that show at least, Championship level.
Sad to see some of the coments on here considering Carsley never hid and always put in a full shift. I'm a great believer in a balanced side and I happen to think he done his job. Now surround Carsley with skill, determination and guile instead of hoofers etc and and he's one-eleventh of a very good team. I believe a team needs to be made up of the right blend of players so I would suggest our deficiencies lay in the lack of skill in other departments.
Nick,
First seven games of this season and last seven games of last seven..... Carsley in the team.... Carsley not in the team... Exactly the same points.
Put your little theory about us being better with Carsley in the team into a little doubt!
John Andrews,
I think you?ll find that several people agree with me on this thread... surely that?s agreement?
Or perhaps you?d like everyone to succumb to the status quo (even though there?s little reasoning for it) just to keep things simple?
First seven games of this season and last seven games of last seven..... Carsley in the team.... Carsley not in the team... Exactly the same points.
Put your little theory about us being better with Carsley in the team into a little doubt!
John Andrews,
I think you?ll find that several people agree with me on this thread... surely that?s agreement?
Or perhaps you?d like everyone to succumb to the status quo (even though there?s little reasoning for it) just to keep things simple?
I know what you’re trying to say Ciarán - about Carsley not being irreplaceable, and to an extent you’re right... but there are so few players out there (that don’t play for the BIG European sides) who can do his defensive role and pass the ball, that I’m not surprised we haven’t filled that slot yet.
On a separate note - I think if you didn’t appear so patronising in your comments, your main point would get through much clearer.
Cheers
On a separate note - I think if you didn’t appear so patronising in your comments, your main point would get through much clearer.
Cheers
Duncan
Good point about Ciaran. I’m sure he’s a nice young man really. I think he said he’s only twelve. Imagine what an argumentative twat he will when he grows up... after he’s been practicing on here.
Good point about Ciaran. I’m sure he’s a nice young man really. I think he said he’s only twelve. Imagine what an argumentative twat he will when he grows up... after he’s been practicing on here.
Hopefully Stubbs on his re-return will sort out the problem of centre backs being in some far-off corner of the penalty area when a goal is conceded. Weir, Stubbs & Carsley were the bedrock, even if the midfield was second class and the style boring.
I notice also that we have conceded more than any other team after 7 games. Incredible.
If Davey spent 20 years playing in the back four at a high level, why can’t he organise people to watch the ball? They may be faster than David Weir, but if you’re 3 yards behind the opponent, so what?
If Davey spent 20 years playing in the back four at a high level, why can’t he organise people to watch the ball? They may be faster than David Weir, but if you’re 3 yards behind the opponent, so what?
Steve Edwards,
What a well reasoned argument.
What a well reasoned argument.
Thats the problem with you matey.. its not supposed to be an argument. You want to turn everything into an argument... instead you should start by thinking in terms of a discussion with fellow Evertonians and maybe people will then allow for your age and lack of experience... I stopped arguing with with kids in the playground a long time ago.
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Carsely’s contract was up and he wanted to go back to Birmingham for family reasons. If a player has decided to leave under these circumstances there is not much Moyes can do. As soon as Carsely’s decision was made clear the club should have been after a suitable replacement.
I don’t think Moyes should shoulder all the blame for this. He gave the board a list of targets as soon as the window opened. While Bill claimed the money was always available the way we spent it suggests otherwise. It was the big question all summer did we really have money or was Billy bull shitting us again. From Moyes glum mood and repeated claims that he wanted at least 6 or 7 new players and Bill?s claims at the EGM that Everton can?t continue like this, its my guess we did have access to money all summer (Ramsey bid) it was very limited until the last second.