My PE teacher was in charge of the school team for 30 years until my class won the Southport 5-a-side tournemant.

He was a big fan of pass and move. Ahead of his time, shame he was crap at his job.

OK, it takes SAF 7 years to finally win a cup with Man U and doesn?t look back since, and it will be Moyes?s 7th anniversary at Everton soon. So, being Moyes?s ?good friend? and mentor, hopefully, he will give Moyes some advice to win the FA Cup this year ....

Adolf, Ferguson joined United in November 86, and had won the FA Cup by May 1990. Thats 3½ years mate, not 7.

By 7 years he had won the league 3 times, the FA Cup, League Cup, UEFA Cup Winners Cup and the UEFA Super Cup.

Not that I?m nit-picking mind....

Whatever the answer to the original question, one thing you can be sure of is that Moyes will beat that record out of sight.

Chris - the full list is as follows:

Theo Kelly - 2 years 52 days and no trophy
Cliff Britton - 7 years 156 days and no trophy
Ian Buchan - 2 years 145 days and no trophy
John Carey - 2 years 177 days and no trophy
Harry Catterick - 11 years and 359 days and 3 trophies - the first, the 1963 League championship came after 2 years and 24 days as manager
Billy Bingham - 3 years 227 days and no trophy
Gordon Lee - 4 years and 121 days and no trophy
Howard Kendall - 6 years and 17 days and 4 trophies - the first, the 1984 FA Cup, came after 2 years and 353 days as manager
Colin Harvey - 3 years and 134 days and no trophy
Howard Kendall (2nd time) - 3 years and 29 days and no trophy
Mike Walker - 305 days and no trophy
Joe Royle - 2 years and 137 days and 1 trophy - the 1995 FA Cup won after just 191 days as manager
Howard Kendall (3rd spell) - 1 year and 3 days and no trophy
Walter Smith - 3 years and 255 days and no trophy
David Moyes - 6 years and 215 days (as at today) with no trophy - the first possible trophy is this seasons FA Cup which would be after 7 years and 77 days as manager.

At present Cliff Britton is the longest serving Everton manager without a trophy.

Alex Ferguson had been in charge for 3 years and 192 days before he won his first trophy with United.

Cliff Britton managed us from Sep 1948 to Feb 1956. The only trophy he won was the Division two title in 1954. So technically he did beat DM in the trophy-winning department, but since you were talking about cups and not lower league-titles, you could argue DM still has a year to go to beat Britton?s ?record?.

Theo Kelly managed the team from Jun 1939 (just after we won the title!) to Sep 1948 and never won a trophy. He was trophyless for over 9 years. But the League and Cup competitions weren?t played in WW II so I think it is a bit unfair to Mr Kelly.

"I was wondering what the record was for how long it has taken for a manager to win a trophy for his club?"

I am pretty sure that there are hundreds of managers who have gone their whole managerial career without winning a trophy, Moyes may end up being one. You don?t say it is a "Moyes Out" post but if it looks like a duck, walks like a duck and quacks like a duck.... you know the rest.

In all fairness to Moyes, things are a bit different now. With football dominated by money, not much has been won by teams outside the gay four for a while. If it was a bit more of a level playing field then I think we?d have the right to complain. I mean finishing 4th and 5th in recent years, a semi-final in the carling cup and quater-finals in the Uefa Cup isn?t all that bad is it??

I know this is just a bit of a diversion, but you can’t read anything into any of the stats above.

The top-4 have had things, on the trophy front, zipped up since 1995, with the exception of last season. This lack of trophies for many managers, not just Moyes, is sadly symptomatic of football at present.

A better question might be, how many managers other than Ferguson, Wenger, Benitez and Mourinho have won trophies, including the Euro competitions, since 1995?

Gullit, Vialli, Houllier got a few, last year ’Arry and Ramos. And maybe 3 or 4 in the Carling Cup..... not a lot of success to share around.

Eric Dols, Everton were promoted as Division Two runners up, losing out to Leicester City on goal average. Regarding your claim that it is being unfair to Theo Kelly, I think you have been a shade kind to Cliff Britton.

While I would take great pleasure from Everton winning trophies, my support lies deeper than that. In the 60 years that I have supported the club, the following years could be deemed as successful,1954, 1963, 1966, 1970, 1984, 1985, 1987, 1995. I appreciate that my attitude to the game may be considered old fashioned in some quarters, but I have always believed in "My club right or wrong" and I would sooner be at Goodison watching Everton fail than in some pub watching them succeed.

I dont see how comparing DM to SAF is fair. The Man U team of the 80s was a decent side before SAF took over. They were just underachieving. They also had more resources back then (relative to the time) compared to Everton circa 2002.
DM took over a dead dog of a club with old, talentless players. Ok we still dont have a good cup record under Moyes and the quality of football can be hit and miss. But with a budget that still hasn't increased since Wally?s days and the financial backing of a soggy sandwich you can't argue with his PL record. I just do see anyone else (who would want to come) who could do a better job!

Cheers Phil Martin for a bit of sense on this fucking debate finally!

Phil, I could do a better job than Moyes. "The quality of football can be a bit hit and miss". What a vastly wide of the mark comment. We?re very very occasionally "hit" against shite sides and nealry always "miss".

I hope this contract is just being badly reported and a lot of the £17 million is bonuses for him actually achieving something. Is Kenwright that bad a businessman to actually reward mediocrity season upon season? Surely Moyes?s contract must be performance-related to justify that much money.

Alan Clarke,

"Phil, I could do a better job than Moyes"... really? In that case why aren?t you a professional football club manager?

Look at our league finishes under Moyes since he took over. Who was the last manager to have this record? Kendall! Now think about the fact that DM has the same level of funding as a mid-table club. When you combine those two facts, I think it?s unrealistic to expect top-class football and trophies every fucking year! Sure he has his shortcomings but again (as per my previous post) who would want to come and do a better job?

I suspect Dario Grady must be up there.

Took over Crewe in 1983 and won his first trophy in 1997 which was the playoff title. In the meantime he had experienced promotion and relegation on numerous occasions but never won a trophy. In terms of a major trophy like the FA Cup / Carling Cup then in his 24 years in charge he didn?t win a thing.

I still think he did a great job though!

You're obviously not a fan of Moyes, Alan. Were you really happy with Walter in charge? Moyes has given us the best side we have had in years, his problem is he has raised our expectations! I am sick of our fickle fans. Yes, I know all fans are fickle but I thought we were better than the rest! COYB

One more thing... outside of Man U, Arse and Chelsea, who else plays genuine attacking, quality football in the Premier League? No-one really! So why expect EFC on a mediocre budget to produce results AND stylish football. As far as I?m conernced results come first!

I predict that David Moyes will never win a trophy.

Didn't we win some pre-season thing a couple of years ago? Or was that a dream I had...

Alan Clarke - So you could do a better job than Moyes? Have you done any coaching? Do you have the UEFA coaching badges? I don?t think every Bruce Springsteen album is brilliant ? but as I can?t play guitar I wouldn?t say that I could do a better job than The Boss. Going by your standards then should Man City get shut of Mark Hughes ? after all when they have come against one of the so called Sky 4 i.e. v Chelsea 1-3 and Liverpool 2-3 they have lost? You slag off Moyes - but then you don?t suggest alternatives other than yourself!!?

Phil ? I agree with your comments ? the comparisons with Alex Ferguson are hardly fair. He inherited a team that was as you suggest not fulfilling their potential. And he has always had great financial resources at his disposal. Even he has not always been successful in using those resources e.g. Eric Djemba-Djemba.

I also think John McFarlane hits the nail on the head ? NO team has had total success in their history. Every club has their successful periods and their periods of struggling. I live near Lincoln and I can remember it?s only around 10 years ago that Man City were visiting Sincil Bank for a League match ? and their derby matches in that particular season were against Macclesfield Town.

Some of the teams now labelled the Sky 4 have had poor seasons that are far worse than anything Everton have had. I can recall Man Utd being relegated a mere 6 years after they had won the European Cup.

Alan Clarke - Don?t you think it would be a better idea if the PLAYERS? wages were related to performance in order to justify paying players like Yobo and Timmy Cahill £50,000 per week? Frankly I think David Moyes is worth £60,000 a week.

Patty, while I agree with you that some players are overpaid, especially when you consider the wider picture and look at the awful things that go on in places like Darfur & Afghanistan; the European Union dictates that by law, people must be paid in the same way regardless of how much they earn ? football players are not worth the astronomical fees they command, but the laws don't allow for it to be capped (as far as I'm aware), nor do they allow for it to be performance related.

The other issue with that, is opinion ? who's to say that if Yobo has a good game in the eyes of one person, that the person responsible for paying him decides he didn't think he played that well, how do you set out the pay-per-play guidelines?

It simply doesn't work in practice.

It?s not worth arguing about though now is it? You got your wish Phil and Darren. The clueless ginger one has signed. So we?ll see if you?re still spouting the same old crap come the end of the season. Raising our expectations, though Darren? That is the most defeatist rubbish I?ve ever heard. Because of our high expectations we demanded Walter Smith left and we got our wish because he was shit.

If anything, under Moyes, people?s expectations are dampened and people like you are happy basking in the mediocrity of it all. I can just see you at the end of the season breaking open the champagne because we finished 9th. Brilliant, "we should be happy we didn?t get relegated" or "Moyes has had very little to spend blah blah blah". These lines that people spout in defence of Moyes are as boring as Moyes?s football itself.

I still don?t think anyone who goes to the games and sits through 90 minutes of Moyes?s crap is actually happy that he?s signed. So I can safely assume Phil and Darren that you watch from your armchairs or just read the match reports on Monday mornings.

Alan Clarke - I hear plenty of people singing DM’s name at both home & away games, so your point is definately a sweeping (and incorrect) generalisation.

James Marshall, it does work. If we win a trophy then the players get a bonus payment. If Moyes wins something, then he gets a bonus payment. Simple as that, it does not get done on a game-by-game basis, otherwise Moyes would be absolutely skint this season.

My list of managers for those wanting to know who is better:

Mancini
Donadoni
Pellegrini
Phil Brown.

To name a few and anyone saying they wouldn?t come don?t know the value of £3.5 million a year.

Alan, I?ll withdraw from this debate since you are trying to turn it into an "I?m a bigger fan than you" type argument now.
All I will say in response is that no-one should expect mediocrity (and I have never celebrated it) and we all feel EFC should be a major force. I just think there are some Evertonians who believe we have a genuine right to win trophies and play stylish football WHATEVER our budget.

Just answer the question, Alan, WHO else could we attract, who would do a better job????

Agreed Alan, but those players would still command a basic pay structure, and if you offered them bugger all, then I would suggest that you wont get many people signing for Everton!

This is a case of closing the gate after the horse has bolted anyway, because it's highly unlikely to ever happen now.

The bonus payments that you?ve just outlined already exist anyway!

You cannot compare now with then. When Kendall won the league it was far more open; now it?s a closed shop.

Phil Brown?? On what basis exactly? The bloke manages Hull City!!

You’re only basing that on their start versus ours, he would be just like getting Moyes in again Alan - I’d love to hear the foundation for all 4 of your choices..

Okay Phil, we’ll just wait and see so we’ll just stop demanding good football and any sniff of a trophy and accpet our place.

The bonus payments do exist James but they should apply to Moyes’ contract. There is absolutely no way he should be payed a flat rate of £3.5 million a year for not achieving anything.

James, again it’s simple, they all play the ball on the floor. Preston played exactly the same as Everton. Hull have always played with a better philosophy than Everton have under Moyes.

Pellegrini has managed to qualify for the CL with a limited budget. Mancini won the Italian league last season. Is that enough foundation?

Once again, some football ?fans? show they have no perspective on the game and illustrate why they will never be satisfied.

There are circa 92 clubs in the football leagues and the average lifespan is (for a bloke anyway) 76 years if you?re lucky. So, and even if things were shared out evenly, many would NEVER see their side as champions, and some would be miffed that their turn came around when they were still crapping in nappies.

I?m 49 now. In my lifetime Everton have been champions FOUR times, won the FA Cup THREE times and also won the European Cup Winners Cup. We were founder members of the Football League and the Premier League, have played more top flight games than anyone else, and are the only club to have played every other club who have played in the top flight. We even have a namesake team in Chile who are currently their nation?s champions.

I feel immensely proud and privileged to have found myself an Evertonian (by luck or pre-destination, my late dad was from Bootle).

If we have barren periods, if we play crap sometimes, I still feel myself fortunate when I think of others doomed to follow Leeds, or Sheffield Wednesday, or QPR et al. I know my club has had more than its fair share of laurels and has a unique and enviable pedigree.

I am also grateful that we have a manager who has kept us in the Premier League ? starting at a time when everybody had been writing us off for years. And, what?s more, by any objective measurement we have in recent years punched well above our weight. Thanks for that Davy lad!

Yes, I want the best; yes, I want us to play good football; and yes, I get frustrated. But yet, we Evertonians are blessed, and we should be grateful for that.

COYBB

First of all, I am am really pleased that DM has signed for another five years.

It is also worth mentioning that today's games is vastly different to wahat it was 10 - 15 years ago. In the 1980s the playing filed was much more level nowadays unless you can thrown £60 million at a team every pre-season you have no chance.

The top $ will allways be favouirte to lift the league, FA Cup and Carling Cup. So in reality I think DM has done a good job on the whole. I know Portsmouth won the FA Cup last year, but can they sustain that level (from early season it?s very much hit & miss).

I have sneaky feeling though the DM?s contract sigining is in line with a take over (yep, I think he was holding on to see what was going to happen).

And anyway who could you all see as taking over from Moyesey? Keegan or Souness (that's the level shite out there).

Alan, all fair points.

Do you think that those managers manegerial skills are transferrable to the Premier League? Personally I doubt it, and with a club like Everton, the chances of having a big-name European manager in charge are slim due to us being a) unfashionable, b) skint, and c) too traditional to go for a foreigner.

I do see your point but I dont agree with it. I think DM is the right man for the job. I have to go now as I’m about to die of hunger.

Well you can rule out the league, CL and UEFA cup can?t ya. Unless we get loads of cash we?re NEVER gunna win them are we?

We MIGHT win the FA cup or the league cup if we are very lucky and the top-4 aren?t arsed about them.

Top n bottom of it is don?t hold ya breath......

I totally agree with your comments Chris Jones. I am slightly older than yourself at 51 and I have seen us in some great periods and some not so great.You don’t remember Bernie Wright do you ? The worst player I have ever seen playing for Everton - indeed I think he is the worst ever player I have seen in the top division !!
Every club has it’s great periods and it’s not so great periods.I can recall seeing Man Utd with players like Jim Holton and Wyn Davies in their team around 1973 !!
I remember my late father telling me about watching Everton in the 1950’s - not always an easy thing. But I think all those Evertonians who were around in the 50’s would have had a great celebration in ’63. Success is sometimes all the sweeter, when you have had to be patient.
I think people like Alan Clarke should look at some of the so called Sky 4 and see how they have had bad seasons that have been far worse than anything Everton have been through in recent seasons. e.g. Chelsea were struggling in the second tier in the late 1980’s.
Alan Clarke says he will stop demanding good football and any sniff of a trophy.You must have a poor memory - didn’t we get to the Carling Cup Semi Final last season ? The UEFA Cup run as well. Presumably you don’t count those and I presume that you wouldn’t give the team or manager any credit for any good football last season.
Perhaps you should try Chelsea or Arsenal - mind you would you be happy following Arsenal for example - haven’t they had a couple of trophyless seasons ? Perhaps if you were an Arsenal fan you would be sending in articles to Arsenal web sites slagging off Wenger.
I can well recall the letters in the Footy Echo back in 1983 criticising Howard Kendall. There were several along the lines of "........great player but he’s just not doing it as a manager" or " shame to see the memory of a great Everton player suffering as he struggles as a manager......" Thankfully the board at that time didn’t listen to the moaners .......and we all know what happened don’t we !!!??

So if you dont agree with Alan Clarke you dont go the game! Its all about opinions isnt it Al?

Mick Wrende, beat that record out of sight? You are clinically insane mate!!!!

Abusive content removed.

Michael

I see your Bernie Wright and raise you John Spencer.

Thanks Steve Flanagan for taking the time to compile that list, very interesting and will prove useful for future pub discussions (arguments)!

Mark Stone: I didn't think of Gradi, so that's a good one. Another manager who went a long spell without winning a trophy was Harry Redknapp at West Ham, but he did win the Intertoto Cup, if you count that!

IF? as some say, we have the best players we have had for years, then why won?t Moyes....

A) LET them play the football they might want to play....or

B) GET them playing proper football.

CAN?T or WON?T???

Either way, he is a waste of space at £17mill for the next 5 yrs.

Yes, football is a business now, blah, blah, etc.... news flash It was since the 1st player was paid and the 1st gate money taken.

But some are forgetting just what type of business it is supposed to be part of.

THE ENTERTAINMENT BUSINESS.

Does watching this hoofball shite, albeit in a dish with a spoon, dressed up with sprinkles and called chocolate, entertain YOU??

Call it chocolate if you like, dress it up with Sky sprinkles.

IT?S STILL SHITE!!

David Moyes never got us to the Uefa Cup quarter finals, he got us to the last 32 if I remember right, from a group that that the top three of five qualify from. Mr Moyes then went all defensive in the first leg, played Neville on right wing, we lost. Instead of learning from Neville on the right wing, he does it again in the derby, which ? guess what ?we lost.

As for him raising expectations an turning us into a top-six side, it makes me laugh. So are we going to finish in the top six this year? My prediction is 14th.

Most people who talk about Smith and how bad he was have no clue or never went to the match in them days. If you look at the signings Smith made, he signed Gravesen, Carsley, Dacourt, Materazzi, Campbell ? all for a hell of a lot less money than Moyes has had. I think if Smith would've had the money Moyes has had, he would've done better. Also, never in a million years would he of arsed around all summer like Moyes did, which was a joke.

Smith had his squad sold on him: Ferguson, Ball, Dunne, Jeffers to name but just a few ? even Hutchison, who I liked, got fucked off over money, which was a joke. All of these players, like Hutchison, Dacourt, Nyarko, even Gravesen, Carlsey ? all Smith signings and better than any centre midfielder Moyes has bought.

Is Moyes's heart really in the job or is he signing a £3 million a year deal which, if he gets sacked, he is in a no-lose situation? Some people I think, need to think outside the box more.

Sean - Rod Belfitt (but I still reckon Bernie Wright far worse than John Spencer!!!)