The Mail Bag
Gutted
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Personally. I am gutted that Moyes has signed a new contract. 5 more years of this man's inept and cautious tactics, I feel will bring us no closer to any honours than we are now.
I read on here people stating that "football has changed." Well it hasn't in the way it should be played. The ball is the same size, as is the pitch and the number of players. Quite simply. You believe the hype and bullshit the so-called experts spout on Sky etc. Football is a simple game played on the floor by passing and moving.
I am not trying to be condescending here, it's just that the simple philosophy of the game is lost on Moyes. Long ball to midgets, players played out of position, negative formations and tactics, the list goes on. He has had the best part of 7 years to create and build a side that can do the simple things all youngsters are taught, and he can't coach grown men to do it.
Money is not an excuse, there are players out there and players in our team by the way. That can pass a football, so why the hell aren't they doing it? Answers on a postcard to D Moyes.
Dave Lynch, Posted 15/10/2008 at 12:33:23
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If you honestly think you can do any better then David Moyes, then why are you in the business you are in and are you at the top of your chosen profession? No, didn’t think so.
Now I want you to look at the funding and spending of Everton compared with teams who finished around the place as we did.
Now Ii want you to look at the players he got us so cheap the likes of Cahill SP Arteta and even the ones he spent a little bit Lescott, Jags, Baines, Saha, Yakubu.
I do think that when we play it on the floor we look at lot better side, we were being compared to Arsenal last season.
And on stats the most succesfull teams in prem play long balls albeit to much taller players than ours but what I am trying to say is have faith in Moyes, he is a brilliant manager and has proven himself to be.
It does not take millions to get a player who can kick a ball along the floor to someone in the same coloured shirt for Christs sake !
Patty. Try to be constructive please, and by the way.
I am actually at the top of my proffession.
Moyes though, is far from it.
Yes he is organised, planning meticulously, and this is all well and good, he wants to get results ? it's a results business... but when you are not getting the results and your team is playing dour uninspiring football then what have you got left?
Who believes that a Moyes team talk consists of the the phase "Express yourselves lads". Certainly not me! When I see a bright new manager like Zola talking of how he wants to see his team play attractive, passing football, I feel a hint of envy.
I just want to see the ball used in a more creative way, not just percentages. Retaining possession should not be something that is alien to Everton FC. Arsenal can do it, Man Utd do it, why cant we?
Hopefully Moyes with the confidence of up to 5 more years at the helm will release the choke chain on the likes of Arteta, Pienaar et al, will try to blend a style of attractive football that gets results and actually say to the players "go on, express yourselves lads!"
The usual dread of games against Arsenal and Man United is in the air so lets see if we can do something to improve our shocking record against the top four now. No more excuses and no more hard luck stories from Everton.
Some people should get a grip. Go back and have a look at the team from the last Walter Smith game. Remember how truly pathetic we were in those days and then fast forward to today.
Could a man who is clueless or tactically inept (as some have called him on here) turn one of the worst teams into the premiership into a consistent top 6 team all while spending less than 10m a year net? The answer to that is no. We would be in the Championship if it wasn’t for Moyes and the only reason that we have these raised expectations is because of him. Ask yourself why we are even close to competing with clubs who are paying out 100k a week wages to players while spending millions on transfers that we can’t afford. Moyes is the reason that we can close the gap to these clubs.
He isn’t perfect but Moyes is a top top manager and we are lucky to have him
It?s great news Davey has signed a new contract. I think some fans are just used to seeing him. If he had an exotic name and turned up at the club on Monday, a few people would be singing a different tune.
Zola said he would play attacking attractive football? Ok, let?s sack Davey and get him. While were at it, let?s sack Bill and get Mohammad al Fayed... he said he?d turn Fulham into the Man Utd of the south.
"Yes, what a dark day for everton, our 3rd best manager of all time has just put pen to paper on a 5 year deal, what a disaster!!"
My question is this: Given your description of Moyes as ?our 3rd best manager of all time?, are you aware of the damage sniffing glue can have on the brain?
Just say no!
Ok we haven?t started well but come on, we?re only 2 points off of what we had this time last year and we finished 5th. DM?s hoofball isn?t nice, I?ll agree with that but every time Jo Yobo dithers on the ball he gives me a heart attack so I?ll stick with him putting his laces through it thanks. Attractive football doesn?t always win matches but we?re a hard working side that, (up to recently) has.
In Moyes I trust and, considering we can?t do a damn thing about it, I suggest you all do to.
We’ve qualified for Europe 3 times under Moyes, has anybody else done that? (Maybe Catterick)
He has returned 3 top 6 finishes in 5 years? When you consider that kendall and Catterick are streets ahead as the top 2, who would you consider to be 3rd? Joe Royle is the only one to come close but he had a good spell for a year, Moyes has done it over 5 years.
You do remember how bad we were when he took over don’t you and how little (compared to teams around us) he has to spend?
People who are demanding that we should be breaking into the top 4 should get real. Given our budget, we shouldn’t even be close and Moyes is the only reason that we are.
David Moyes full strength team includes Phil Neville in midfield. I will say no more - as I think this more than disproves your point about Moyes being some kind of guru of the free flowing passing game!
Where I feel Moyes is to blame is in not demanding that his midfield come and get the ball and use it better. Not a Carsley shithouse pass back to the centre halves who then hoof it up!! Mr Jagielka anyone!!!
On a final note, I think the supporters also have to look at themselves as they more than any other factor contribute to this by getting on players' backs for not moving the ball up quickly enough! Impatience gets you nowhere.
Nil Satis
He has done a good job in steadying the ship nothing more, but at this moment if you read the history books for the future his name will be under worst points tally and worst goals scored tally with a trophy haul of nothing, his 5th and 4th finishes wont be mentioned nor will his abysmal cup record and no matter what people say he HAS spent money probably not much less than Mr Wenger and for every Smith Boro or Tranmere game I can recall Shrewsbury, Bucharest and seven goals at Arsenal all to me far worse games, yes he is a better manager than Smith and we have had happier times under him, but he has had far more cash than Smith, he deserves credit, but not to be treated like some messiah as the way he likes to remind us of his top ten finishes he likes to believe his own hype.
Your attitude my friend are what is wrong with this club.
You accept mediocrity and excuse Moyes all his failings without question.
Look at our cup record and the teams we have bowed out to.
Ask yourself this.
Can i see us winnig anything in the future.
Finishing 4th is not success.
With your attitude you should work for Mac’s.
Just stand there, take orders and shit off the customers without question.
Smile back and say. "Have a nice day, enjoy your meal."
"Don’t question whats in it though, just accept it’s mediocre and basically shite."
Whatever you do you’ve missed your vocation sunshine.
"We?ve qualified for Europe 3 times under Moyes, has anybody else done that? (Maybe Catterick)"
Qualified for Europe!?
Eh?
Since when did that become THE yardstick for success?
Fact: Every Everton manager to have won one or more (obviously) trophies is more successful than Moyes.
Fact: There was no European competition for most of the club’s history.
Fact: Our most successful manager (at his peak) was denied matching Moyes’ incredible European ’record’.
Finishing in a ’Champions’ League spot is better than finishing in a Uefa Cup spot, and finishing in a Uefa cup spot is better than no European football, but don’t confuse either with success.
Coz REAL success is winning things.
Whoever posted saying they listened to Zola?s empty promise of great football with envy, needs their head testing. 12 months time when WHU are bottom 5 leaking goals- he will be fired.
Yet EFC will probably be top 8 irrelevant of the paltry money DM gets given to spend...
Do I see EFC winning anything in the near future? Probably not! But that?s because there?s 8 other clubs in the league who are far wealthier and better marketed than we are. Who have more money, are willing to offer bigger wages...The fact we regularly compete with these and finish above 15 other Premiership clubs is a testament to DM success. Punching above our weight, is an understatement!!!!
Whoever said before it?s not down to money is fucking wrong! OF COURSE IT IS. Football has changed off the pitch; you won?t get anywhere with a net spend of £8M a year. Even with fucking Cappello or Mourinho in charge. Not that they would consider such a position at a club with such wank finances. My blood boils when I hear such shit from fellow supporters. I don?t believe the sun shines from DM?s arse but I fail to work out how we would?ve got where we are today (regularly getting into Europe) had it not been for him.
Enough said
I remember reading some of the letters to the Footy Echo back in 1983, when all seemed to be doom and gloom. The majority of letters were slagging off Howard Kendall ? some along the lines of "...great player for us but he can?t cut it as a manager, he?s out of his depth" or "...it?s sad to see a former great Everton player have his reputation tarnished by his failings as a manager..." Thankfully the Everton board of that time didn?t listen to all the moaners ? and they were pretty vociferous ? remember the cushions thrown from the stands and the team being jeered off?
I remember coming over from Lincoln for the game against Luton in October 1983 I think it was. The attendance was about 13,500 and we lost 0-1 and looked to be a team lacking in any confidence. If anyone had told me we would win the FA Cup and run Liverpool pretty close in the Milk Cup (I?ve not forgotten the Hansen hand ball) I would have politely suggested that they were in need of some kind of therapy.
Well we all know what happened ? a team and a manager that seemed down and out went on to win the Title twice, the FA Cup and the Cup Winners Cup and the odd Charity Sheild for good measure!!
As the great Bob Dylan once said ? The Times they are a changin? In some ways yes ? but in others no. As I said, Howard Kendall had more than his fair share of moaners to contend with. Moyes ? well we have to face facts we are no longer amongst the mega-rich. I recall in the 1970s Billy Bingham paying a record breaking transfer fee for Bob Latchford. He also paid £300,000 for Martin Dobson ? which was discussed on BBC TV?s 24 hours programme as an example of how money was a dominating factor in English football!!
Well we no are longer a member of thet mega-rich club, and we can?t compete with the likes of Chelsea and co. Yes, some of you moan that old chestnut. Well, it?s a fact we no longer have the money to pay record breaking transfer fees. We need to face up to the fact that to challenge for the top 4 on a consistent basis is going to take time a lot of time. Or perhaps some of you would like to adopt the Peter Risdale method or have you forgotten what happened when Leeds United tried to keep up with the mega rich?? Be patient some of you for goodness sake.
"Fuck off and support somebody else. Leave these pages for Evertonians who want to get behind the team and the Manager."
I take it you mean the O/S or bluekipper.com?
These pages are for opinions, whether you agree with them or not. If you want unadultertated positivity, you’ll find those other two sites far more to your liking.
IMWT
Thanks.
You get sicker by the post.
To compare football to a battle that thousands lost their life fighting in is abhorent.
To associate it with Everton as well is criminal.
Crawl back into that hole you came out of.
Mainly DMs arse.
"I am actually at the top of my proffession.
Moyes though, is far from it. "
I would say that being voted the best in your job, twice in a few years, by your peers whilst working at the highest level possable anywhere in the world (at least arguably) is pretty much the top of a profession. Whether you like it or not, whether you like him or not, whether you agree with his tactics or the way he sets his team up or not, that is a pretty stupid thing to say. I very much doubt that you can say the same about your career.
No it?s not.
Being at the top means achieving. In football that means winning things, he has achieved only mediocrity and won nothing. I am not going to go into what I do for a living, it?s none of your buisness, with respect. But if I?d have performed the way Moyes has IMO. I would be out of a job by now.
You know what, we?ve had a bad few months, a weaker board could have used this as an excuse to dump Moyes and bring in a new saviour. Chances are if they?d done that we?d be in a worse state than we are now. Look what happened to Spurs when they dumped Martin Jol after he?d gotton them consecutive top 5 finishes. Looking for a magic bullet is not a good strategy for building a club. Moyes is steadily and surely improving the team year on year, letting players go who weren?t capable of stepping up to the next level, bringing in younger more gifted players.
OK, there?s plenty of room for improvement in the way that we play, but you know what, it?s a lot better than it was just 3 or 4 years ago. I for one am glad that we?re not one of those clubs who change their manager every 12 months, I think we?re the stronger for it, and I think we?ll be the stronger for the fact that Moyes has recommitted himself to Everton.
For all the people slagging Moyes off for being negative, and I appreciate at times we do not play very good football, and when we lose playing this shit football anything seems better...But lets add context why has Moyes had to resort to this, simple. He has limited funds, and as we?ve noticed with the regularity of last minute deals in the transfer market he?s not got who he REALLY wants, so what else is he meant to do when we?ve "needed numbers"??
Given £40m / £120m on transfers this season, would Jacobson, Saha or Castillio have been invited to Goodison, I think not and we know we?d have seen Joao Moutinho. When we qualified for the Champions League, again with £40m on transfers would we have bought Phil Neville or Andy ?Shandy? VDM. No I don?t think so.
David is doing the very best with what he has got, he has had to bring in players with limited skill because we?ve needed numbers, nothing against Phil Neville, but you don?t go into the transfer market looking to buy him.... IT might seem he has spent a lot for a few transfers, but in comparison with Tottenham, Villa or Newcastle he?s spent fuck all...
When we get taken over and Moyes gets a serious transfer budget he deserves let's judge the quality of football.
And another thing: Moyes is the manager, he has signed a new five-year contract and is expected to be with us for the duration. Posts discussing potential replacements are thus moot and will be removed.
But I wonder whether the signing of the contract does indicate investment and change of ownership?
I hope so.
For many years now, football has been a major contributory factor to success of football clubs. When we were the ?Mersey Millionaires? did we win trophies?? Of course we did. HK could afford to buy top quality players and therefore could compete.
These days, money means more than it ever has done yet Moyes has matched other clubs spending 2, 3 or 5 times as much as we are. If that is not an outstanding achievement what is?
I?m just glad that our chairman isn?t as short-sighted as some fans when it comes to choosing the manager of out great football club. Otherwise we could well be having this discussion over whether Dario Gradi is good enough to get us into the Championship.
- His cup record is appalling. Please stop mentioning our League Cup exploits last year. Our run consisted of beating Luton, Sheffield Wed and a very much under-strength West Ham. Hardly, difficult was it?
- Reaching the last 16 of the Uefa Cup was not a great achievement. If any of the big 4 go out in the last 16 of the CL it is an unmitigated failure and the same view should be taken of PL representatives going out at that stage in the much weaker Uefa Cup.
- There is no credible argument for rewarding the reasonable achievements of Moyes with a contract which appears unreasonably lucrative but even more unreasonably lengthy.
You cannot be happy with the brand of Football you are playing, what are you going to do about it? We are sitting 15th in the league and after the next two games we will be lower, out of the League Cup and out of Europe?
We have a team that looks good on paper but plays like arse, we have spent £15 million on a player who has played about 80 games, and looks a little shakey at present. We have taken out another mortgage just to pay our way through the season.
I am very worried at the state of our club, I cannot see us winning anything in the near future, I cannot see us competing for a top 6 place and I think mid-table is the best we can hope for. If anyone thinks any different, where is the reasoning please, because I would love to pass it to DM.
Yet I?m not angry or happy about his new contract. I find it rich that as we are in one of the biggest form slumps in recent years he is rewarded with a bumper new contract. What kind of message is that?
We have achieved European qualification as a result of being a hard team to beat. At times Everton have played some great attacking football but it's a rare sight.
His two biggest failings are the negative football and his inability to adapt mid game. We could have at least got an assistant to complement Moyes?s weak points but instead we got Steve Round.
Am I happy Moyes has stayed, well watching the Standard game I did at one point say, or rather yell, ?if you don?t give a shit anymore just resign?. Part of me wouldn?t have cared if he had.
Only problem I had with him leaving is who would replace him, I guess I just not quite given up enough on us ever achieving success under Moyes in terms of trophies as others here.
I wouldn't be suprised if this was the case and Moyes hasn't wanted to say and further embarrass the club in public? It would explain a few of his comments!
Then choose to ignore all the suggestions.
I must have seen 50 names put forward on this site alone, some of them with a far better record than Moyes and would have crawled here for £16 million.
Ok he?s signed now so it all a bit academic.
But Kenwright as we all know doesn't do plan B?s, so Moyes was always the only candidate, but let's stop pretending he was the only option.
Michael you offer the match summaries up, perhaps it would be better if someone who goes the match does it? ;-)
We seem unable to play our way out of any situation, opting instead to launch balls to any area of the ground and not always the pitch area of the ground. I watched some of the Belarus play against England and the confidence in possesion was verging on arrogance throughout the Belarus team, the keeper continually rolling the ball out to eager defenders, often still in their own area and culminated in one of the best passing goals I have ever seen.
The point I am trying to make is man for man Everton have better, stronger more skilful players than Belarus but the German coach has Belarus playing without fear aginst one of the most expensive national teams in world football. It is ridiculous to say that the manager of Everton does not coach the keeper or the defenders to hit the ball 40-50 yards from the back, because if it is not him telling them to do it then why has he not stopped it ??? I think Moyes may have the potential to become a more expansive minded manager, but he needs to lose the Dithering Dave tag and have a go at letting the team express itself.
As regards money spent Arsene Wenger has spent less than any manager in the Premier League their standard of play is not too bad, it would not bother me one bit if Everton never won another thing, if I could watch football like that every week, but play like that and success will follow. - as delboy once said " He who dares wins"
Your Honour, the defence produces Exhibit A (Gascoigne, Farrelly, Ginola, Pembridge, Gemmill, Barrett... One for the older generation, the one, the only Ian Wilson.
Judging by the Messiah's record against top-four teams in his six years in charge, we will go all negative and get twatted and certainly won't have some balls like little Hull who beat Spurs, Arsenal and the Geordies, all away, in the space of a couple of weeks... something we have failed to do in six years due to basically sitting back and having no fucking balls whatsoever.
To Doddy this will be a minor blip in his cuckoo land, to me and thousands of other blues who will have to face the Monday ridicule, it?s a fucking crisis and I am fed up of people worshipping a manager who deserves 7 out of 10 but that?s all. I am fed up of saying prior to these games "you never know" because I do know.
I?d love to see how many titles Man Utd would win over the next 5 years if SAF had to put a salary cap of £40k per week per player AND only had £8M net to spend per season. Do you think players like Rooney, Ronaldo, Tevez, Carrick would stay? Do you think United could still play the same expansive, attacking, attractive football without those players? Could they fuck
Do you honestly think SAF or Scolari would have Hibbert, Osman and Yobo playing any better than what they do now?
Apply the same to Chelsea; Drogba, Terry, Lampard, Essien, J Cole would all leave. And their standard of play would also suffer.
We've had a bad start this year but we aren?t finished yet. A takeover by New Year and substantial backing to Moyes (for the 1st time in his EFC career) could give us a massive boost.
You?ve confused me.If the fact that someone has a contract precludes us from discussing their replacement, then how are we going to discuss player replacement?
I did as you suggested and looked where Wigan are
I suggest you do the same.
A little tip, look up, not down
Where is that coming from... The Arsenal Game, The Man U Game...
Is Moyes signature a boost, I really thought it would be BUT? it took so long I am wondering "Why" and more importantly "What’s Changed"
Was he holding out for something better ? SKY 4 clubs weren’t looking, Something abroad perhaps, maybe the form shown this year has dented his public persona who knows?. But he has signed now and I am still looking for something to rekindle my season..
Next two games, Bloody Nice Timing??
Now, I am not so much of a dreamer that I want 6 points from them
(pauses, just for a moment to allow a hint of that dream to pass) but what I would like to see is a team that
Plays
Competes
Doesn’t stick the ball in their own net
Doesn?t get sent off for childish tantrums
Doesn?t roll-over after a 50 minute effort
Oh and respects the referee in the same way that he respects the team
I would like a few "Oohs" and "Ahhs" in a game, I would like to feel the need to shout "Get in there", "Good Effort" "Nice Ball"
People get so hung up about Winning this and Winning that?. LETS GET REAL
Will we still support Everton like we have for the last nn years ? YES
Will we win the League ? NO
Will we win the FA CUP ? MAYBE
(tried to cover all the answers there)
So lets see some effort:- Manager, Players,
and Supporters ? Keep the posts coming, keep the arguments clean and disciplined, bitch like hell now that the ?credibility crunch? is with us?..but remember to come back on and Crow when the good times return ? and they will return?. They may not stay long but they will return?.
Watch this space?..
I prefer to see what happens at the end of the season rather than shouting about how we should be playing like a certain team who has hit a purple patch and is an unknown quantity at the moment.
I alway look up and as I said before there are many people who would better we will finish highter than Hull, Wigan and of course deffinitely Reading.
If you're going to scoff "and look where they are now" it would enhance your argument if the team you are speaking about were not doing better than we are.

