The Mail Bag
The stats don't lie
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All you lads who come on here, slagging off anyone who dare have a go at Moyes, here's a bit of reality: since the Fiorentina game last season, we have a paltry 16 pts from a possible 51. Thats a whopping 35pts dropped. Surely, if you took off those blue tinted Moyes specs, you would see that is dire, and the man may not be the Moyesiah you all preach to us about?
Off course, I will be told that last season is history, etc.
One question, though: if all you apologists can come on here and use Walker, Smith etc to back up your opinions, why shouldn't I be allowed to use history as well, to make my point?
Brian Waring, Posted 19/10/2008 at 11:45:33
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The facts are there to be seen and the league table does not lie: we are shite and we play shite football ? if that?s what it can be called, but it?s never Moyes?s fault is it? After all, he picks the side and instructs them and decides what the tactics are but it?s not his fault, ever. Fucking Hell!!!!
Worst defence, rubbish football, waste of time in the transfer market, knocked out of 2 cups, 1 point at home and it?s the 19th of October and Moyes manages to achieve double his salary.
As a certain Ricky Gervais character would say "are you having a laugh?"
David Moyes, you are taking the piss.
Moyes is the worst footballing manager in the Premier League yet BK is shovelling money in his direction and our fans are made up about it. FFS, someone wake me up out of this nightmare.
Then you come onto here, and the mood is completely different, and you start to believe that the majority of fans are anti-Moyes.... that is, until the next match, when you hear the thousands singing who are obviously pro-Moyes.
The conclusion I?ve drawn is that the majority of fans are still pro-Moyes, and are confident that things will turn around ? and there is a minority who are anti-Moyes, almost all of whom post on here.
Usually, it?s the minority who are the most vocal, but the facts in this case would suggest the opposite.
PS Tony, your constant name calling of fellow Evertonians (muppets, tits etc) is becoming tedious, and God only knows why your posts which attack other Evertonians get posted - no doubt you?ll say you?re entitled to your opinion....
Moyes worst manager in the league? C’mon!! What about Ramos, Kinnear, Megson, Pulis to name a few? Don’t be so bloody ridiculous!!
Plaese do not say he left long before our demise because, like anything in business or sport, it takes a while for the rot to set in.
I knew, yesterday that a tactical change by Wenger would result in a shift of control from Everton to Arsenal; I also knew that Mr Moyes would not react until too late. This is the reason we have conceded more than 70% of total goals in the second half of games. This must show that either the team is not trained correctly, or the manager is tactically bereft and unable to counteract any change by the opposition manager ? or both.
The biggest certainty on Saturday was he would wait 'til Arsenal scored their 2nd goal before making a change. It was clear that Yakubu was a passenger and needed replacing, but whoever said Yakubu would have scored several for Chelsea against Boro was right, he is the best finisher I have seen @ Everton since Lineker. Can you imagine asking Lineker to play lone striker in a 4-5-1 ?? Sharp, Heath, Gray... yes.
Regarding your observation of the widespread support for David Moyes and the team at the game, I don?t doubt it. But what you see on here is post-match analysis that differs from the support the same people will offer at the game. It goes to the heart of this "Stop griping and get behind the team" nonsense we hear from a certain quarter when the post-match analysis gets to be too painful for some fans to bear ? fans who often only want too look forward to what might be in the next game or are only too happy to look a long way backward at all the wonderful things Moyes has done for the club.
I have no qualms about defending 95% of what is posted on this site as being from genuine Evertonians, most of whom probably watched the game and are concerned about it, and are concerned about the current state of the club, the manager, the players, etc. Yet other individuals come on this website and wail against the majority for expressing their concerns...
Okay, so they are the more optimistic amongst us, they are ones who do not wish to dwell on failure or analyse the limitations of players, manager, chairman, club... but can only contemplate things coming good at some indefinite point in the future.
Why must they stop the debate? That's what I can't understand. After a bad loss, the post-match analysis we host is more likely a cathartic process that allows views to be shared and differing analyses to be considered. In this, I think the posts of Connor Rohrer, Ken Buckley and others are very valuable. The idea that this makes us somehow lesser fans than the seemingly blind optimists is simply intolerable.
We can also win the FA Cup.
We might do the double this year.
Do you think everyone that is not anti -Moyes like you and Tony is an "apologist" as you call them? Why do you and a few others feel the need to try and separate the Everton fanbase into pro- and anti-Moyes?
I'm just trying to understand exactly what your point is and what the purpose of your tedious post was? For what it's worth, I myself am neither pro- nor anti-Moyes. I feel he has obviously improved the club and the quality of player we have at the club but by the same token I am regularly frustrated by the tactics he employs and his always too late substitutions. I just don't think that sacking the manager is always the answer to every problem ? Newcastle have been doing that for years and look at them ? or look at Spurs after sacking Jol. That would be my fear for Everton if we sacked Moyes
The history issue, if you mention the 80s, Royle's FA Cup win etc, you are always reminded that they are in the past, and have no revelance to the here and now. But, the same lads who spout this, will then use the "would you rather have Smith, Walker back?" crap if anyone dare have a go at Moyes. Isn?t it hypocritical, to say on one hand you can?t use history, and then in the same breath use it to back up their arguement?
One more thing, if you want to talk about separating the fan base, I think BK and Moyes have made a good job of that themselves.
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1 Posted 19/10/2008 at 15:50:47
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Of course, it all depends on how you slice and dice particular parts of history, and I could probably go back almost 20 years to show that Moyes?s record isn?t "dire".
The only relevant stats are 8 points from 8 games (yes, we all agree it?s been a shit start), and the position we will occupy at the end of the season (which of course nobody knows).
Anything else, on both sides of the argument, isn?t relevant.