The Mail Bag
Some Hard Decisions
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Well, he gets paid enough but Moyes has 2 big decisions to make which will demonstrate his true "1st eleven".
To me it's only:- Lescott vs Baines; Cahill vs Osman.
I would personally go for Lescott over Baines even though I think Baines is a far better attacking fullback. Lescott will as we know give us goals; Baines won't. It's a major decision as I think both will not take the bench lightly or for long.
I would also go for Cahill rather than Osman. Whilst both will give you goals, Cahill is the livewire, the aggressor, the 'gets under your skin' type player. Everton's record is far better with him in. The only worry I've got ? are Fellaini and Cahill too similar? Who will hang back?
So my team for Wednesday is: Howard; Neville, Yobo, Jagielka, Lescott; Arteta, Cahill, Fellaini, Pinnear; Yakubu, Saha.
Subs - Nash, Hibbert, Rodwell, Osman, Vaughan, Anichebe, Castillo.
Mike Oates, Posted 27/10/2008 at 23:19:52
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I don’t think that Fellaini is necessarily as attacking as he has seemed recently, I think that Moyes has been employing him there as a stop-gap for Cahill. Basically, he’s been the new Big Dunc, a lanky target for our lumps, while we’ve been unable to pass our way out of a wet paper bag.
Hopefully, once Cahill is back, Fellaini will drop back a little. That way he can wander forwards and give us that target as an option, not as a preferred way of playing.
Cahill is clearly the preferred player over Osman. Ossie does OK, I think he’s certainly a good enough player for our bench, but he’s not first XI material. Cahill, for all his limitations, just seems to give us that extra drive and gets so many invaluable goals.
As for the CB quandry, can you leave one of Jags, Lescott or Yobo on the bench? Especially when there’s only the Prem and FA Cup to play for. It’s not like we’re gonna play a lot of games this season....... I think Baines is a good footballer and he hasn’t really had a fair crack at the first team. But I’d pick Lescott over him, especially at the moment. If we were playing good football and we’re relatively solid at the back, Baines would be a good asset going forwards. But right now, I’ll settle for Lescott and maybe the odd goal off a set piece.
Hopefully, once Cahill is back, Fellaini will drop back a little. That way he can wander forwards and give us that target as an option, not as a preferred way of playing.
Cahill is clearly the preferred player over Osman. Ossie does OK, I think he’s certainly a good enough player for our bench, but he’s not first XI material. Cahill, for all his limitations, just seems to give us that extra drive and gets so many invaluable goals.
As for the CB quandry, can you leave one of Jags, Lescott or Yobo on the bench? Especially when there’s only the Prem and FA Cup to play for. It’s not like we’re gonna play a lot of games this season....... I think Baines is a good footballer and he hasn’t really had a fair crack at the first team. But I’d pick Lescott over him, especially at the moment. If we were playing good football and we’re relatively solid at the back, Baines would be a good asset going forwards. But right now, I’ll settle for Lescott and maybe the odd goal off a set piece.
It always astounds me what other Evertonians see in football matches.
From what I?ve observed over the last few years, it?s quite apparent that Cahill is useless in a 4-man midfield, yet you advocate putting him in just that role... Personally I?d rather have Saha there.
As for Lescott... HE IS NOT A FULL BACK!!!!!!!!!!!
Potentially one of the best centre halves we have ever had, he is being ruined by being played out of position... absolutely ridiculous state of affairs...
And Baines has more than deserved his starting line-up. Moyes is a numpty... and Baines should just go now, as he will never get a fair crack of the whip.
From what I?ve observed over the last few years, it?s quite apparent that Cahill is useless in a 4-man midfield, yet you advocate putting him in just that role... Personally I?d rather have Saha there.
As for Lescott... HE IS NOT A FULL BACK!!!!!!!!!!!
Potentially one of the best centre halves we have ever had, he is being ruined by being played out of position... absolutely ridiculous state of affairs...
And Baines has more than deserved his starting line-up. Moyes is a numpty... and Baines should just go now, as he will never get a fair crack of the whip.
I think we can safely say that Lescott's goals have dried up, when was the last one? As for the left back slot, I say take it for each game. If we need a bit more of a physical presence then pick Lescott, but if we feel we can get at their right side, then play Baines!
As for Cahill and Osman, yes, I prefer Cahill, but as I mentioned on a previous thread, it will be interesting to see how Cahill and Fellaini fit together in a midfield 4. They would have to be disciplined and know exactly what each other's roles were, and not both just bomb into the box!
Play Yobo at rightback ? that's where he plays for Nigeria.
I would have said it was Cahill v Saha?
Would suggest that you haven’t seen Cahill that often in a 4-4-2 over the last few years Ciaran as Moyes has chosen to employ a 4-5-1 on a regular basis.
Maybe you’ve seen him play in a 4-4-2 role for Millwall and have come to a conclusion that he is crap in that role??
Maybe you’ve seen him play in a 4-4-2 role for Millwall and have come to a conclusion that he is crap in that role??
I agree completely with Nick Veitch.
I would drop Lescott at the moment, as he is off form.
My bench would be Nash, Hibbo, Lescott, Rodwell, Osman, VdM, Saha.
Castillo’s presence would give Cahill and Fellaini the opportunity to push on in support of Yak. I would like to see Shandy get 15 minutes to see if he is serious this time. Fingers crossed because he has the ability and if we can finally get the attitude right we have a top player there.
I would drop Lescott at the moment, as he is off form.
My bench would be Nash, Hibbo, Lescott, Rodwell, Osman, VdM, Saha.
Castillo’s presence would give Cahill and Fellaini the opportunity to push on in support of Yak. I would like to see Shandy get 15 minutes to see if he is serious this time. Fingers crossed because he has the ability and if we can finally get the attitude right we have a top player there.
Steve,
Maybe you?ve not watched as many games as me Steve, but Moyes has used Cahill in a 4-4-2 (not often, but he has) on occasion... the last outing for him in that particular formation being against Liege...
Perhaps you missed that game too.
Maybe you?ve not watched as many games as me Steve, but Moyes has used Cahill in a 4-4-2 (not often, but he has) on occasion... the last outing for him in that particular formation being against Liege...
Perhaps you missed that game too.
What astounds me about Everton is that we demand Moyes to play 4-4-2 and then when he does we complain that he can?t play Cahill in a 4-man midfield. So where to play him, as if you play him as a striker then that?s just false, he?s not a striker. A team of 4-4-2 with Cahil as a striker is actually a 4-5-1 with Cahill as an attacking midfielder. At home I would play 4-4-2, with a midfield pairing if Fellaini and Cahill and away I would go 4-5-1 dropping Saha and bringing in Castillo. I would like to see more of Castillo to see if he can do the holding role.
I’d change nothing from Saturday!
The same 11 had a real go at Utd second half so have proved that they can do it. I’d say, same again boys - go and get the win!
After the feelgood factor of coming back against Utd, I can’t believe that we are taking about surrendering the initiative and playing 4-5-1 against the mightly Bolton!
If that doesn’t work and they slip back to mediocrity, then picking from a bench including Cahill, Vaughan and Anichebe sounds good to me.
The same 11 had a real go at Utd second half so have proved that they can do it. I’d say, same again boys - go and get the win!
After the feelgood factor of coming back against Utd, I can’t believe that we are taking about surrendering the initiative and playing 4-5-1 against the mightly Bolton!
If that doesn’t work and they slip back to mediocrity, then picking from a bench including Cahill, Vaughan and Anichebe sounds good to me.
Matt,
You make the assumption that Cahill must automatically start...
He must be played to his strengths and if that means sitting on the bench when we play a 4-4-2, then so be it.
You make the assumption that Cahill must automatically start...
He must be played to his strengths and if that means sitting on the bench when we play a 4-4-2, then so be it.
How we could (and doubt it?ll happen) leave Fellaini out of the side, after how he?s played. But I really think Castillo should be given the green light for either one of the upcoming games.
------------- Howard -------------
Neville---Jagielka-----Lescott---Baines
Arteta---------Fellaini---------Pienaar
---------------Cahill----------------
-------Saha------------Yakubu-------
Subs : Yobo, Castillo, Hibbert, Nash, Osman, Vaughan, Baxter
------------- Howard -------------
Neville---Jagielka-----Lescott---Baines
Arteta---------Fellaini---------Pienaar
---------------Cahill----------------
-------Saha------------Yakubu-------
Subs : Yobo, Castillo, Hibbert, Nash, Osman, Vaughan, Baxter
Yobo at right back ? absolutely! I do not understand why him or Jagielka do not get used in this position. Both have performed really well with other teams and surely would strengthen our defence and be a lot more attacking as they have shown at previous clubs that they can be. I would also let Baines loose, he is a cracking player that hasn't been given a chance. He is quick, intelligent player, got a wicked cross and a shot that could break back of the net.
We have a lot of permitations available but have not yet seen what might be our best back four. Midfield - Pienaar, Rodwell or Castillo, Fellaini, Arteta. Saha & Yak up front. Subs - Ruddy, Osman, Cahill ,Vaughan, Neville, Anichebe
Ciaran,
maybe it is an assumption, but I would describe it more as an opinion, Cahill is our best player, to leave him on the bench is nonsensical. Now whether we will have a situation like in the England team whereby Fat Frank and a certain other non entity can’t play together only time will tell. But there is only one way to find out.
maybe it is an assumption, but I would describe it more as an opinion, Cahill is our best player, to leave him on the bench is nonsensical. Now whether we will have a situation like in the England team whereby Fat Frank and a certain other non entity can’t play together only time will tell. But there is only one way to find out.
Thing is Jags has been far and away our best defender this season at CB. We can’t drop him or move him to fullback.
As said above, give the team that started against United another go tomorrow, with Cahill on the bench. If it isn’t working then at least there’s options to go more attacking......
After all the enforced changes, really Moyes needs to be settling a side, especially with the lack of cup games coming up.
As said above, give the team that started against United another go tomorrow, with Cahill on the bench. If it isn’t working then at least there’s options to go more attacking......
After all the enforced changes, really Moyes needs to be settling a side, especially with the lack of cup games coming up.
I can?t see Saha playing 3 games in a week so I would expect a 4-5-1 against Bolton away and referring back to a 4-4-2 for Fulham at Goodison. The problem is who will be the 4 in midfield on Saturday (yet another early kick off.... fooking Sky... Grrr!)
Matt,
I certainly don?t agree with your opinion that Cahill is our best player.
Cahill is a good player when used effectively, in my opinion using him in a 4-4-2 is not using him effectively.... and renders him pretty useless... and our midfield pretty impotent.
I certainly don?t agree with your opinion that Cahill is our best player.
Cahill is a good player when used effectively, in my opinion using him in a 4-4-2 is not using him effectively.... and renders him pretty useless... and our midfield pretty impotent.
I agree with one of the above who said it?s a toss-up between Cahill and Saha. I think it?ll be Cahill in a 4-4-1-1 with Lescott at left back. I?d prefer Baines but Bolton?s aerial threat will play a part in Moyes?s decision.
Fair point Ciaran, we’ll have to agree to differ with Cahill, but our Midfield is fairly impotent and the worst thing is the lack of balance there. Would love to see what team we have for Bolton, Fellaini, Saha and Yak were blowing out of their arses by the end of the Manure game. I hope he starts them all and replaces them when they look tired again, a little bit earlier this time though.
Yes Matt,
We?ll have to agree to differ!
I think the midfield line up on Saturday was close to our optimum with the current squad, although I?d like to see Castillo on in place of Osman.
I think that?s the way for us to go and have the 4-5-1 with Cahill to fall back on when we need it.
We?ll have to agree to differ!
I think the midfield line up on Saturday was close to our optimum with the current squad, although I?d like to see Castillo on in place of Osman.
I think that?s the way for us to go and have the 4-5-1 with Cahill to fall back on when we need it.
Rodwell is the best defensive midfielder we have, and must start!
Howard
Pip, Jags, Lescott, Baines
Rodwell
Arteta, Fellaini, Pienaar
Timmy
Yak/Vaughan
Howard
Pip, Jags, Lescott, Baines
Rodwell
Arteta, Fellaini, Pienaar
Timmy
Yak/Vaughan
I agree with that starting line-up. Bolton are a physical team so it makes sense to leave Ossie out. Pienaar is light but quicker and more industrious than Ossie. However, no matter which players start they had better start passing better. The first half against Man Utd was awfull mainly because Everton were coughing up the ball too often ? even when they had time to pass the ball.
I’d go with the same team personally, see how it goes. It’s the first time this season that we have looked balance so I see no reason to change it. Chopping and changing the team week in week out.
Fellaini and Osman have been in good form, neither deserve to be dropped. Osman whilst he has his defiencies is simply a better out and out centre midfielder than Cahill. He has more technique and creativity, he covers more ground and in that positiop he offers a similar amount of goals.
People may disagree but Osman has proven he can do a job consistently in that role, Cahill hasn’t. I’ve seen him have some good games but I’ve also seen him have alot of stinkers.
As someone said it should be Saha v Cahill, I really don’t mind who plays in that position alongside or just behind Yakubu. Both are good effective players.
Baines v Lescott, I really don’t mind to be honest. I think there both good fullbacks albeit a little different. If we are going with Osman, Fellaini, Pienaar and Arteta in midfield then I’d rather have Lescott back there as we do need some presence. If we go with Cahill I’d give Baines a go, he’d give us some creativity down the left.
Fellaini and Osman have been in good form, neither deserve to be dropped. Osman whilst he has his defiencies is simply a better out and out centre midfielder than Cahill. He has more technique and creativity, he covers more ground and in that positiop he offers a similar amount of goals.
People may disagree but Osman has proven he can do a job consistently in that role, Cahill hasn’t. I’ve seen him have some good games but I’ve also seen him have alot of stinkers.
As someone said it should be Saha v Cahill, I really don’t mind who plays in that position alongside or just behind Yakubu. Both are good effective players.
Baines v Lescott, I really don’t mind to be honest. I think there both good fullbacks albeit a little different. If we are going with Osman, Fellaini, Pienaar and Arteta in midfield then I’d rather have Lescott back there as we do need some presence. If we go with Cahill I’d give Baines a go, he’d give us some creativity down the left.
Think it's quite easy really, if Cahill is in we need Baines and Pip to be the full backs so the crosses can be wipped in from the bye line, outswinging for Cahill to run onto.
What about this for the team on Wednesday:
Howard, Jagielka, Yobo, Lescott, Baines, Arteta, Fellaini, Neville, Cahill, Pienaar, Yakubu.
I?ve put Jagielka RB so that I can put Neville in the holding role o accomodate Fellaini and Cahill. Also, this team includes both Baines and Lescott.
Howard, Jagielka, Yobo, Lescott, Baines, Arteta, Fellaini, Neville, Cahill, Pienaar, Yakubu.
I?ve put Jagielka RB so that I can put Neville in the holding role o accomodate Fellaini and Cahill. Also, this team includes both Baines and Lescott.
Michael
Neville has proved he is the best attacking right back we have, I don't believe Jagielka's distribution will be good enough, particularly the key art of whipping a cross in ? Neville can.
Jag's strength is his short distance speed to stop the nippy centre forwards ? let's not loose that.
Neville has proved he is the best attacking right back we have, I don't believe Jagielka's distribution will be good enough, particularly the key art of whipping a cross in ? Neville can.
Jag's strength is his short distance speed to stop the nippy centre forwards ? let's not loose that.
Nice to see some positive topics for once. It's a good problem to have the competition for places, and I just hope we can start to pick up at least 3 or 4 wins in the next 6 matches. It's more than possible.
Michael ? I don?t want to be rude, but the thought of Neville in midfield (especially when we have all our midfielders fit again) makes me cringe. He had a great game against the Mancs at right back, and now people are talking about Jags or Yobo playing there... unbelievable!!!
I?m pretty sure the same team that played on Saturday will line up tonight, but the likely swap of Cahill for Saha... and I expect Cahill to play as far forward as possible. This isn?t a negative line up at all, and with the likes of Vaughan, Saha, Anichebe, Baines, Castillo etc on the bench, we have good options as and when the match needs changing.
Come on you Blue Boys, let's get at them from the start and bag all the points!
Michael ? I don?t want to be rude, but the thought of Neville in midfield (especially when we have all our midfielders fit again) makes me cringe. He had a great game against the Mancs at right back, and now people are talking about Jags or Yobo playing there... unbelievable!!!
I?m pretty sure the same team that played on Saturday will line up tonight, but the likely swap of Cahill for Saha... and I expect Cahill to play as far forward as possible. This isn?t a negative line up at all, and with the likes of Vaughan, Saha, Anichebe, Baines, Castillo etc on the bench, we have good options as and when the match needs changing.
Come on you Blue Boys, let's get at them from the start and bag all the points!
Interesting tho here Yobo plays at RB for Nigeria. Does Moyes know?
Best pick for me would have to be:
--------------Howard---------------
Yobo--Jags--Lescott--Baines
--------------Castillo---------------
Pienaar----Fellaini-------Arteta
----------------Cahill----------------
-----------------Yak------------------
And I?d give the captains armband to Fellaini (does he speak English??), if not then to Jags.
Best pick for me would have to be:
--------------Howard---------------
Yobo--Jags--Lescott--Baines
--------------Castillo---------------
Pienaar----Fellaini-------Arteta
----------------Cahill----------------
-----------------Yak------------------
And I?d give the captains armband to Fellaini (does he speak English??), if not then to Jags.
Yobo played right back for Nigeria when he was about 20/21. Nowadays he always plays centre back for them.
He’s a terrible right back, he just doesn’t understand the position. He played there a few times in the 06/07 season and was terrible.
He’s a terrible right back, he just doesn’t understand the position. He played there a few times in the 06/07 season and was terrible.
Ian - give the armband to Fellaini... is that a joke? He scores one goal against the Mancs and he?s suddenly our captian fantastic!!!
It has to be a joke. Surely.
Connor is right... Yobo played right back about 5 years ago for Nigeria. Hasn?t played there since then, and captains the team from right side of central defense. Lots of good centre halfs started as full backs... if I remember right, David Weir played right-back before he came to us, and even had a few games for Everton in that position. Undoubtedly though, like Yobo, he was best in the middle.
What about Joleon though... I?m starting to doubt he?s got the sharpness, and positioning to be pushing Jags or Yobo out of that central position yet.
It has to be a joke. Surely.
Connor is right... Yobo played right back about 5 years ago for Nigeria. Hasn?t played there since then, and captains the team from right side of central defense. Lots of good centre halfs started as full backs... if I remember right, David Weir played right-back before he came to us, and even had a few games for Everton in that position. Undoubtedly though, like Yobo, he was best in the middle.
What about Joleon though... I?m starting to doubt he?s got the sharpness, and positioning to be pushing Jags or Yobo out of that central position yet.
Depends who you are playing against!
Think Jags or maybe Rodwell is the future captain for EFC.Thinks Rodwell can be a sympatic Gerrard.
I like the fact that this thread has gone along the lines of:
We need a better right back
Yobo played right back for Nigeria
Excellent lets all play Yobo at right back
Was he any good at RB
Noooo! He was Crap!
What !
Duncan - your right, well sort of, I wasn’t joking about Fellony be capt, but it was a momentary mental aberation. I think I just saw his name at the centre of the team pick. I guess a Fellony captain would be a crime of some sort.
Perhaps worthy of a separate thread but I am not an advocate of a permanent captain anyway. Moyes needs a captain ON the pitch for 90mins, and should pick someone appropriate before each game. Off the pitch what’s the captain do. Moyes can ’talk’, ’consult’ with who the hell he likes regardless of who his club captain is. Having a permanent captain only ever restricts the manager when it comes to changing formations, or dropping out of form players, as the captain always expects to start.
We need a better right back
Yobo played right back for Nigeria
Excellent lets all play Yobo at right back
Was he any good at RB
Noooo! He was Crap!
What !
Duncan - your right, well sort of, I wasn’t joking about Fellony be capt, but it was a momentary mental aberation. I think I just saw his name at the centre of the team pick. I guess a Fellony captain would be a crime of some sort.
Perhaps worthy of a separate thread but I am not an advocate of a permanent captain anyway. Moyes needs a captain ON the pitch for 90mins, and should pick someone appropriate before each game. Off the pitch what’s the captain do. Moyes can ’talk’, ’consult’ with who the hell he likes regardless of who his club captain is. Having a permanent captain only ever restricts the manager when it comes to changing formations, or dropping out of form players, as the captain always expects to start.
As a number of blues have already said I would make minimal changes to SAturday?s team putting CAhill in for Saha who is yet to impress me.
We have to be aware of their danger from set pieces so I would leave Lescott in for now and see how he does with Baines on the bench.
I also thought Neville had a much better game with Pienaar in front of him on the right and would start them that way.
We have to be aware of their danger from set pieces so I would leave Lescott in for now and see how he does with Baines on the bench.
I also thought Neville had a much better game with Pienaar in front of him on the right and would start them that way.
I noticed that too to be honest Jay, Pienaar links very well with Neville. He looks for the ball more than Mikel and gives Neville more options. He comes to the ball whereas Arteta has a tendency to turn his back on it and run into space.
Arteta gets much more involved on the left handside where he can cut inside and influence the game from central positions. The balance was alot better in midfield on Saturday.
Arteta gets much more involved on the left handside where he can cut inside and influence the game from central positions. The balance was alot better in midfield on Saturday.
Ian - yeah, we’ve gone off on a few consecutive tangents haven’t we... but anyway - what’s everyone’s thoughts on the move to Kirkby? ;-)
I totally agree with your thouhts on the Captain situation though (apart from the brain spasm you had about Fellony - nice one). It was the same when Stubbs was club captain, but not in our strongest 11. Neville has the leadership skills and is a good pro, he is in our best 11 at the moment, but how many of us would like to see him replaced?
I think Tim Howard, Jags, Cahill, and even Arteta have shown enough leadership to get the armband in my opinion. Not sure which one I’d pick... always used to think Cahill, but ideally a centre-half suits the job. Yobo anyone?
I totally agree with your thouhts on the Captain situation though (apart from the brain spasm you had about Fellony - nice one). It was the same when Stubbs was club captain, but not in our strongest 11. Neville has the leadership skills and is a good pro, he is in our best 11 at the moment, but how many of us would like to see him replaced?
I think Tim Howard, Jags, Cahill, and even Arteta have shown enough leadership to get the armband in my opinion. Not sure which one I’d pick... always used to think Cahill, but ideally a centre-half suits the job. Yobo anyone?
David Moyes likes to keep it tight for the majority of football games, using the 4-5-1 formation driven by Cahill. If we are winning we will usually stick to this formation and replace the lone striker. If not we may try a 4-4-2 formation to get us back into it.
How about reversing that idea? Go out using 4-4-2 from the start with Cahill on the bench and try to get ahead. If winning we can shut up shop and bring Cahill on with the 4-5-1 formation. If losing we can bring on a fresh striker AND Cahill in order to attempt getting back into the game.
I would normally be slightly apprehensive about this especially going out 442 against the likes of the top 4 but Man U at the weekend made me think otherwise! Also against lesser opposition like Bolton tonight we could even try setting out with Cahill in the 4 man midfield from the start. Or is this too risky for Mr Moyes?
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1 Posted 28/10/2008 at 06:52:38
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I?m still unsure about Baines vs Lescott. Baines provides the width and crossing ability that we lack on the left side (given we play with a right-footed left midfielder). Lescott, when crossing the ball, floats it in which is easier for the defensive side, whereas Baines really whips it in with venom which gives us a better chance. Lescott scored 10 goals last season though so it?s a real tricky one.
I?ll make a decision and say I?d go with Baines, based on the fact that Lescott scores most of his goals from set pieces, which he will used for irrespective of whether he is LB or CB. We lack width in our team, particularly on the left, so I?d go with Baines and let Jags, Yobo and Lescott fight it out for the 2 CB positions.