The Mail Bag
Defence
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Ok, most of us will be feeling a bit better about the team after the weekend. It's no news that our defence has been very poor so far this season. It was one of our strengths last year and then suddenly went missing. While we still have room for improvement I thought we did better on the weekend and was for once quite impressed with Phil Neville's game. It just proved to me again that he is a right back ? end of.
I see on the official site that Tony Hibbert is expected to return this week. I have nothing against him and he is coming back from a serious injury but in my opinion he has been very poor this season.
I will be shattered if Neville is in midfield and Hibbert at RB. I know having options in all positions would be a dream but I can't understand some of Moyes's selections. What is our best defensive line up? Personally I'd go for the following:
Neville, Yobo, Jags, Lescott and have Baines as a rotation for more attacking options. Hibbert is normally decent at out and out defence but at the moment I don't think he warrants a spot.
Russell Buckley, Posted 28/10/2008 at 00:45:20
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Neville-Jags-Yobo-Lescott is definitely our best back 4. The only problem is if Lescott is set on a CB spot, then we risk him leaving or losing motivation. I’m guessing that is the reason for Moyes swapping things around in central defense.
We’ve also struggled to name a settled back line. If we can name the same back 5 tomorrow night, as played against United, hopefully that’ll be the start of a bit of consistency and solidity. Christ knows, we need it!
We’ve also struggled to name a settled back line. If we can name the same back 5 tomorrow night, as played against United, hopefully that’ll be the start of a bit of consistency and solidity. Christ knows, we need it!
If Moyes put Hibbert right back and Neville in midfield on Wednesday, you can safely say that he will never learn.
After Saturday hopefully we will never see Hibbert at right back again.
After Saturday hopefully we will never see Hibbert at right back again.
I doubt Hibbert will start, not this game and maybe not for a while. I can't see Moyes tinkering with the side so much after our best performance of the season. I think his only decision will be whether or not to put Cahill back in, either for Osman or Saha (if 4-5-1) but I think that would be harsh on either player after Saturday.
Only one change likely for Bolton: Cahill in for Saha. Oh, and Victor on to replace him at 70 mins. Moyes will be full of surprises!
Russ.
Herein lies the problem with Moyes.
He plays players out of position.
Always has. You and I know Pip is not very good in mid, work it out for yourself.
Herein lies the problem with Moyes.
He plays players out of position.
Always has. You and I know Pip is not very good in mid, work it out for yourself.
Russell, the primary problem with our defense this season is our Midfield!
I would leave Lescott alone and let him try and ride out his form issues himself; I think Baines is far too risky due to his height and the fact that we already have several players that weight the same as a bag of sugar!
Neville is best staying at RB and Hibbert best position will be on the bench.
I would leave Lescott alone and let him try and ride out his form issues himself; I think Baines is far too risky due to his height and the fact that we already have several players that weight the same as a bag of sugar!
Neville is best staying at RB and Hibbert best position will be on the bench.
Hibbert?s best position would be at another club.
I?ve never seen Jacobsen playing but I know he?s better than Hibbert, because my granny is better than Hibbert. Jacobsen will be Neville?s cover come December when he returns.
The defense will regain its confidence and Saturday may prove to be the catalyst for that. If so I?m expecting a run of results as I fully expect the goals to continue.
I?ve never seen Jacobsen playing but I know he?s better than Hibbert, because my granny is better than Hibbert. Jacobsen will be Neville?s cover come December when he returns.
The defense will regain its confidence and Saturday may prove to be the catalyst for that. If so I?m expecting a run of results as I fully expect the goals to continue.
Lescott will get unhappy this year, he has publicly stated he doesn?t want to play left back.
If you were to go by the adage that you play your best players and work your formation around that then ours would have to be 3-5-2.
Howard
Yobo Jagielka Lescott
Arteta Fellaini Cahill Osman Pienaar
Yakubu Saha
Looks decent to me!
If you were to go by the adage that you play your best players and work your formation around that then ours would have to be 3-5-2.
Howard
Yobo Jagielka Lescott
Arteta Fellaini Cahill Osman Pienaar
Yakubu Saha
Looks decent to me!
I don?t know why he hasn?t looked at 3-5-2 either, as it would mean that we could play our best players in their favoured positions.
We are short and out and out winger though, perhaps VDM can do a job for the remainder of the season, (although I?m not about to get into that argument).
Howard
Neville 2 of (Yobo Jagielka Lescott)
VDM Arteta Fellaini Cahill Pienaar Baines
YakVic SahaVaughan
Useful side that would also give options of switching to a 4-4-2 if required.
We are short and out and out winger though, perhaps VDM can do a job for the remainder of the season, (although I?m not about to get into that argument).
Howard
Neville 2 of (Yobo Jagielka Lescott)
VDM Arteta Fellaini Cahill Pienaar Baines
YakVic SahaVaughan
Useful side that would also give options of switching to a 4-4-2 if required.
3-6-4 seems a good prospect to me!
So the favourite Boo boy is about to come back and we need to have a go at him again!!!
Russell you say he has been poor this season, do mean the 4 or 5 games where he has actually played and looked like our best defender?
Usual story, you judge him on his inability to get forward and put in a great cross...... something even our midfielders can?t do at the moment.
He is our best out-and-out defender, yet he is considered everyone's favourite to hate and say how poor he is.
Then again, nothing is new to our fans, Mikel needs to be sold so we can get our moneys worth, Fellaini is crap, Yak is crap again, Cahill is worthless and only offers goals etc etc
Russell you say he has been poor this season, do mean the 4 or 5 games where he has actually played and looked like our best defender?
Usual story, you judge him on his inability to get forward and put in a great cross...... something even our midfielders can?t do at the moment.
He is our best out-and-out defender, yet he is considered everyone's favourite to hate and say how poor he is.
Then again, nothing is new to our fans, Mikel needs to be sold so we can get our moneys worth, Fellaini is crap, Yak is crap again, Cahill is worthless and only offers goals etc etc
I have to admire the optimism of some fans on here. I am a relatively optimistic kinda blue, I don’t knee jerk too often and I really do give players a fair crack before calling them shite.
I still think that Neville is decent enough at right back for us and that Hibbert is a good squad player. But I did give up on Van der Meyde having any kind of positive contribution to make about 18 months ago.
Even if he did get into a position to even play, he has hardly kicked a ball at any kind of level in the last 4 years...... so the probability of him doing anything useful ranks up there with the probability of Jessica Alba dropping by for a quick game of strip poker. I hope I am proved wrong tho..... on both counts.
I still think that Neville is decent enough at right back for us and that Hibbert is a good squad player. But I did give up on Van der Meyde having any kind of positive contribution to make about 18 months ago.
Even if he did get into a position to even play, he has hardly kicked a ball at any kind of level in the last 4 years...... so the probability of him doing anything useful ranks up there with the probability of Jessica Alba dropping by for a quick game of strip poker. I hope I am proved wrong tho..... on both counts.
I thought we rode our luck defensively on Saturday and could quite easily have taken a right tonking off Utd ? it was only for a string of genius saves from Tim Howard and the fact that Ronaldo is already sunning himself in Madrid that we didn't get beat.
You watch tomorrow night as Kevin Davies bags at least one against our paper-thin defence!
You watch tomorrow night as Kevin Davies bags at least one against our paper-thin defence!
"I?ve never seen Jacobsen playing but I know he?s better than Hibbert, because my granny is better than Hibbert."
Have you ever seen Hibbert or you granny play? Granted Hibbert?s distribution at times is poor but first and foremost he is a defender and a very good one at that. There aren?t that many complete right fullbacks in the country never mind at Everton.
Tony,
Fair enough we both support the same club but I think that?s all we have in common.
Yes I’m referring to the 4 or 5 games Hibbert has played this season. I’m also referring to the clear occasions when he has looked lost watching the ball as it sales into the back of the net. Like I said this is nothing personal against him I’m simply making a personal assessment on the quality of play. You a right and as I said he is a good at out and out defence. But he is not even at his usual level at the moment, to me he is still underdone from his injury and should get back into the swing of things with a game or two in the reserves. To say he is our best defender is a bit of a stretch in my book, just being able to tackle doesn’t make you a good defender. He is not the boo boys favourite for nothing, his criticisms aren?t a result of random abuse.
Saying sell Mikel and Cahil is worthless must be a joke right?
Fair enough we both support the same club but I think that?s all we have in common.
Yes I’m referring to the 4 or 5 games Hibbert has played this season. I’m also referring to the clear occasions when he has looked lost watching the ball as it sales into the back of the net. Like I said this is nothing personal against him I’m simply making a personal assessment on the quality of play. You a right and as I said he is a good at out and out defence. But he is not even at his usual level at the moment, to me he is still underdone from his injury and should get back into the swing of things with a game or two in the reserves. To say he is our best defender is a bit of a stretch in my book, just being able to tackle doesn’t make you a good defender. He is not the boo boys favourite for nothing, his criticisms aren?t a result of random abuse.
Saying sell Mikel and Cahil is worthless must be a joke right?
Why not play Yobo at RB? Give us a bit of pace on the right hand side of the pitch for a change; and he plays there for Nigeria. Plus would give a bit of competition to Pip and Hib for a change. However, I seriously doubt DM not playing Pip.
Hibbert's an easy target; Tony Williams is spot on, he?s only had 4-5 games and seems to be the scapegoat everytime someone else fucks up. We have not conceded a single goal this season that could be attributed to an error Hibbert's made. The Newcastle game was a classic example: the Yak and Pienaar fuck about and lose possession, the cross goes to the far post, our goalie stays on his line and our two center backs are not even in the right post code... so let's blame Hibbert. After all he was beaten by one of the best headers of the ball in the league trying to rectify everyone elses errors.
Russell, These clear occasions when Hibbert has looked lost as the ball sails into the back of the net? Refresh my memory will you, which games were they?
Russell, These clear occasions when Hibbert has looked lost as the ball sails into the back of the net? Refresh my memory will you, which games were they?
I cannot think of a worse right back than Hibbert and that includes Marc Hottiger, Mitch Ward, Ray Atteveld etc etc etc.
He would not get in any other team in the league end of story and he is not a good defender as some people believe.
He would not get in any other team in the league end of story and he is not a good defender as some people believe.
We’ve conceded plenty of goals which have come from Hibbert ball-watching, this season alone.
Sorry Dave I don?t have a photogaphic memory so I?m unable to clearly remember every goal conceded this season. I?m not 100% on the opposition but its been clear at least to me a few times this season.
For example, I believe it was against Liege in the 2nd leg when Hibbert was not even contesting the ball but standing off about 10m while he watch the opposition close in and score. All he could do was watch. Normally the big strength he has is being in the opposition?s face.
Like I?ve said, I?m not out to bag one of our players for the whole team?s mistakes and it's not personal. All I want is our best line up. Again, as I?ve said, Hibbert is good in defence but is far from a complete right back. My issue is that I think he is underdone from his injury and isn?t offering his best as yet.
For example, I believe it was against Liege in the 2nd leg when Hibbert was not even contesting the ball but standing off about 10m while he watch the opposition close in and score. All he could do was watch. Normally the big strength he has is being in the opposition?s face.
Like I?ve said, I?m not out to bag one of our players for the whole team?s mistakes and it's not personal. All I want is our best line up. Again, as I?ve said, Hibbert is good in defence but is far from a complete right back. My issue is that I think he is underdone from his injury and isn?t offering his best as yet.
In defence (no pun intended) of Hibbo, he has been injured so probably isn?t completely match fit and he?s always been limited.
He?s tenacious and gives it his all, sticks to players and isn?t bad in the tackle ? where he?s found wanting is with his passing and being outjumped at the back stick too often.
We seem to concede goals easily when the ball is looped over from the right towards Hibbo with someone beating him to the ball almost every time ? if I was a manager I?d simply toss high balls from the right over Tony?s little bonce and nod them in.
Kevin Davies at the far post tonight anyone!?
He?s tenacious and gives it his all, sticks to players and isn?t bad in the tackle ? where he?s found wanting is with his passing and being outjumped at the back stick too often.
We seem to concede goals easily when the ball is looped over from the right towards Hibbo with someone beating him to the ball almost every time ? if I was a manager I?d simply toss high balls from the right over Tony?s little bonce and nod them in.
Kevin Davies at the far post tonight anyone!?
James
every center forward in the country pulls on to the full back as opposed to the usually taller central defenders ? thats been happening since Dixie played ? Hibbert is better in the air than Gary Neville and Ashley Cole, I know that's hardly a ringing endorsment, but they can't defend in the air but they play for England, why single Hibbert out?
every center forward in the country pulls on to the full back as opposed to the usually taller central defenders ? thats been happening since Dixie played ? Hibbert is better in the air than Gary Neville and Ashley Cole, I know that's hardly a ringing endorsment, but they can't defend in the air but they play for England, why single Hibbert out?
Russell to take your argument to its logical conclusion i.e. Neville is not a midfielder; well lescott is not a left back baines is a specialist and deserves his place there. Why did Baines not play against man utd? Because Moyes was worried about the height or the fact all they do is play long balls? Don?t think so. Baines should play Lescott isn?t even performing.
Dave, I’m hardly singling Hibbo out - I praised him as well as pointing out his shortcomings. I quite like his tenacity and die-hard attitude - Gary Neville is way better in the air than him, though Cole I agree with. The only reason I mentioned it is because it HAS happened at least twice this season.
Full-backs arent there for their heading ability obviously, which I assume is your point. Top-class fullbacks are very few & far between and we’re pretty lucky to have Hibbert and Neville as well as cover at left back as well - Tony takes way more criticism than is neccesary.
Full-backs arent there for their heading ability obviously, which I assume is your point. Top-class fullbacks are very few & far between and we’re pretty lucky to have Hibbert and Neville as well as cover at left back as well - Tony takes way more criticism than is neccesary.
At least we now have a clean sheet!
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1 Posted 28/10/2008 at 07:32:16
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Hibbert will never offer anything going forward, but is a far better defender than a lot of people give him credit for and is therefore a useful squad member, Neville is the better option now, but he isn't the long term answer either.
All defenders can have bad games, look at Rio on Saturday. Our problem has been the amount of individual errors made by the people in front of our defence, that catches everyone on the hop and even the best defensive units will struggle to cope with that.
We may not have world class players in our defence but as a unit I think we?re half decent; we need the rest of the team to understand defending is a collective responsibility.