The Mail Bag
Fellaini the new Cahill?
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Just wanted to throw this into the mix, but I think Moyes may see Fellaini as a long-term replacement (improvement) on our Tim.
The last three matches or so, he's been the one bombing forward from midfield ? I reckon he's told to get his head on anything inside or approaching the opposition box. He's a box-to-box player and he's clearly got a knack of scoring (3 in 3 is it now?).
But, and here's the rub, he seems to have more all-round footballing ability than Cahill. Don't get me wrong, I love Tim and what he has given us for a few years. But the general impression I get from most of you is that ? much as we love him ? he doesn't have the ability to hold a midfield together and drive a side on with his creativity when playing in a 4-4-2. (When was the last time you saw an eye-catching, defence-splitting pass from him?)
He's great in a 4-5-1 when he has licence to play as a goal-scorer, but I've heard a lot of people say our glorious 4-5-1 has been found out and we need (correctly in my view) to play two up front. Perhaps Moyes agrees and bought Fellaini as a Cahill who can pass and create?
If that's the case then a) What's the future for Tim (how long will Moyes go with playing them both together); and b) we still need a replacement for Carsley (as Moyes has obviously seen enough of Castillo already).
Chris Brown, Posted 30/10/2008 at 11:39:13
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I think it is more about the players we have at the club rather than just formations. Cahill is a top class player and we have precious few of them. Whether Fellaini turns out to also be one, only time will tell. At this time I would play both in midfield along with Arteta and Pienaar. It is up to Moyes to blend their obvious qualities together.
Except winning every ball in the air last night, Fellaini is far too inept with his positioning and tackling. It's too early to judge whether he?s creative on the ball, however, he's certainly not a defensive midfielder. I think I'm the only toffee yet to be blinded by his crucial goals, but more worried by his positioning, slowness and tackling. Hopefully he?s just adjusting and will prove me wrong soon! COYB
Carsley was also crap in a 4-4-2 so in my opinion neither he nor Cahill suit that formation.
Cahill is 29 years old this year and will have a low resale value soon. As much as I think he is a great player for us I think it is time he was sold on and we brought in a young partner for Fellaini with the money.
How much would we get for Cahill? I’d go for 12million.
Cahill is 29 years old this year and will have a low resale value soon. As much as I think he is a great player for us I think it is time he was sold on and we brought in a young partner for Fellaini with the money.
How much would we get for Cahill? I’d go for 12million.
Fellaini is technically better than Cahill. More composure on the ball, more intelligent in the middle and a better passer. He’s a centre midfielder.
Cahill is more mobile and more intelligent in the box, he supports Yakubu much better and knows when and where to move.
They have similar qualities but they take up different positions. Fellaini is box to box whereas Cahill as an attacking midfielder/second striker.
Hopefully we’ll see them alongside each other on Saturday, I’d like to see us revert to a 4-4-1-1.
And it’s not negative either, I’m talking about a midfield containing Arteta, Osman, Fellaini, Pienaar and Cahill. That’s forward thinking and positive and it suits alot of our players.
4-5-1 or 4-4-1-1 is a good formation if it’s used correctly with the right personnel.
Cahill is more mobile and more intelligent in the box, he supports Yakubu much better and knows when and where to move.
They have similar qualities but they take up different positions. Fellaini is box to box whereas Cahill as an attacking midfielder/second striker.
Hopefully we’ll see them alongside each other on Saturday, I’d like to see us revert to a 4-4-1-1.
And it’s not negative either, I’m talking about a midfield containing Arteta, Osman, Fellaini, Pienaar and Cahill. That’s forward thinking and positive and it suits alot of our players.
4-5-1 or 4-4-1-1 is a good formation if it’s used correctly with the right personnel.
We have wanted a player for a long time who would allow Arteta to come inside and play with Cahill. Problem is (as you mention) Cahill is not an all round midfielder (he is an attacking midfielder). What Moyes has actually done is either decided Arteta will be moving on (if he doesnt start playing like he can) or Arteta should stay where he has been at his best. Therefore we now have an actual midfielder, who is up and down, challenging and scoring. He isn't a replacement for Cahill, he is an ideal partner who will simply allow Cahill to do what he does best, and help out the strikers.
I agree with Sam, where the hell is Castilio. He looked to be settling in really well and then vanished.
Haven’t any of you heard of this concept of having a SQUAD of good players?
Tactical options and cover are important!
Also with Saha and Cahill fit and firing the Yak can’t afford to be lazy...I reckon AJ’s presence was one of the critical factors in spurring him on to eventually work hard last season.
The situation with Castillo has me flumoxed.
Tactical options and cover are important!
Also with Saha and Cahill fit and firing the Yak can’t afford to be lazy...I reckon AJ’s presence was one of the critical factors in spurring him on to eventually work hard last season.
The situation with Castillo has me flumoxed.
I dont think Moyes would even consider letting Cahill go. The team has played 4-5-1 for several seasons now and they are clearly all adept and comfortable with it. I think a midfield of Arteta, Pienaar, Cahill and Fellaini would be fantastic but they need to be accompanied by someone who can play that holding role. Clearly there is no money so its about making the best of what he has so either Castillo comes back from the wilderness or Rodwell plays - Quite frankly anyone but Neville or Jag!
Harden him up a bit and he could become a Duncan Ferguson type hero but with more finesse.
Big teams have squads and players who can come in to change a game from the bench. How can we possibly compete if we get rid of a player just because we now have another one of a similar type? What we need is to keep the quality we have and improve on it. creating more competition. I get the feeling that part of the problem with Arteta is lack of competition for his place. Cahill, Fellaini, Castillo, Rodwell, Osman- they need to know that if they don’t do the business they will lose their place.
Tiny and Screech can’t really be compared as they are very different types of players. Cahill really frustrates me, as to many of my non-blue mates think the sun shines out of his arse and would be a great addition to their sides. But they only see the goals he gets - which i know is fantastic - but they dont realise that he disappears for lengthy spells in almost every game.
He reminds me of Jenas at spudz, who does f#ck all during games but amazingly pops up with a lot of goals.
It cant just be about scoring the odd goal. The guy is quite limited when it comes to tackling, passing and teamplay.
As for the big lad Fellaini, nobody should be making any sweeping statements just yet. The guy is still a kid with only a few games under his belt. Correct me if i’m wrong, but he barely speaks english (Castillo also), so lets just give him some room to grow (not in height obviously).
4-4-2 seems to be the way to go from here on. The old 4-5-1 is a tired machine that has been rumbled, and in truth produces a ugly brand of football.
For me, the most important midfielder for us this season could be Pienaar, a lad with genuine quality, who unlike Arteta, chooses to use his skills in every match.
He reminds me of Jenas at spudz, who does f#ck all during games but amazingly pops up with a lot of goals.
It cant just be about scoring the odd goal. The guy is quite limited when it comes to tackling, passing and teamplay.
As for the big lad Fellaini, nobody should be making any sweeping statements just yet. The guy is still a kid with only a few games under his belt. Correct me if i’m wrong, but he barely speaks english (Castillo also), so lets just give him some room to grow (not in height obviously).
4-4-2 seems to be the way to go from here on. The old 4-5-1 is a tired machine that has been rumbled, and in truth produces a ugly brand of football.
For me, the most important midfielder for us this season could be Pienaar, a lad with genuine quality, who unlike Arteta, chooses to use his skills in every match.
Give Jack Rodwell a chance in the holding midfield role, given time I think he can become a regular in our team and make this position his own he is a very good footballer and deserved more credit for his performance at Arsenal. Play Cahill and Fellaini in the centre with cahill being the attacking midfielder. I can see why people say ideally are too similar but I think they would work. Fellaini plays his game in the centre and likes to get from box to box he is a ?centre midfielder? but Cahill plays his game high up the pitch almost as a second striker and is very effective in a five man midfield. I?d have Pienaar on the left, he looks like the only player with a bit of urgency at the minute then ideally I'd have Arteta on the right but to be honest I'd give him the kick up the arse he needs and leave him on the bench a decision that would either make or break his Everton future but one that has to be made, I'd replace him with Osman. In attack id have Yakubu who for me is our best striker, I know he?s lazy and goes missing when were not playing well but when we are playing well he is quality and always gets a goal.
My team v Fulham would be:
Howard
Yobo Jagielka
Neville Lescott
Rodwell
Osman Fellaini Pienaar
Cahill
Yakubu
Lewis, I don?t think Rodwell is a holding midfielder. I think at the right club he will be an England centre half. Unfortunately, Moyes can?t leave certain players out so Rodwell, like Lescott, will be forced to play out of position and his career will subsequently suffer.
Castillo will be back. He is injured at the moment after International duty with Ecuador.
We need someone in that holding role even if we play 4-4-2. I’d be inclined to persist with Rodwell, the more experience he gets the better player he will be. He has the defensive qualities needed for the job and descent ability on the ball for someone so young. Personally I see this season as being a none event so why not use it to bed Rodwell in. That way the season won’t be a complete waste of time. As for Castillo, I don’t think he knows what a tackle is. I do think he he got plenty of goals in him though. Someone with a decent shot around the edge of the box is something we lack. Castillo’s record as a goal scorer with Red Star was right up there with the likes of Cahill. I think he therefore could be a decent squad player but not as defensive midfielder.
Andy Crooks,
He’s a centre midfielder, he’s said himself that’s where he sees his future, in midfield. It wasn’t even Moyes who moved him into midfield, it was the Youth/reserve team coaches.
Just thought I’d correct you there, it’s quite obvious that he also has all the tools required to be a very good midfielder.
And since when would a 17 year old suffer from being played out of position? Alot of acadamies do it. Use young players in different positions to develop there game and there understanding of the game.
Ajax do it and I’m pretty sure Sporting do aswell, two of the best teams for developing young players. I’m quite sure Dennis Bergkamp was used at right back when he was a youngster.
He’s also been playing defensive midfield for the England youth teams of late, speaks for itself really.
He’s a centre midfielder, he’s said himself that’s where he sees his future, in midfield. It wasn’t even Moyes who moved him into midfield, it was the Youth/reserve team coaches.
Just thought I’d correct you there, it’s quite obvious that he also has all the tools required to be a very good midfielder.
And since when would a 17 year old suffer from being played out of position? Alot of acadamies do it. Use young players in different positions to develop there game and there understanding of the game.
Ajax do it and I’m pretty sure Sporting do aswell, two of the best teams for developing young players. I’m quite sure Dennis Bergkamp was used at right back when he was a youngster.
He’s also been playing defensive midfield for the England youth teams of late, speaks for itself really.
Castillo has been carrying a knock since the international break. He’s fit again now, but Moyes obviously won’t tinker with his midfield.
He should take out Osman now though after that Bolton performance and replace him with Castillo or Rodwell. Rodwell’s performance against Arsenal and Castillo’s against Stoke (the occasions when they have both played next to Fellaini) proved to me they are better suited than Osman in the long term in that role if we continue with 4-4-2.
He should take out Osman now though after that Bolton performance and replace him with Castillo or Rodwell. Rodwell’s performance against Arsenal and Castillo’s against Stoke (the occasions when they have both played next to Fellaini) proved to me they are better suited than Osman in the long term in that role if we continue with 4-4-2.
Connor, I?m happy to stand corrected. Also,to be honest, your comment re different positions does make sense. Still, someday I?d like to see Rodwell as a footballing centre back, someone who is comforable on the ball and can move it out of defence.
Would you not agree, however, that Lescott is suffering at left back?
Somehow i think that Castillo has not been very impressive.
I for think Rodwell has looked better when he has played.
I for think Rodwell has looked better when he has played.
Andy Crooks,
Not really to be honest. I think Lescott’s suffering because he’s lacking confidence, even at centre back he looked a little shaky.
I think he’s just going through one of those spells, he has been more or less immaculate for two years so maybe it’s his time.
But I do like Baines, I wouldn’t mind him getting games as he’s done well of late. I’d move Lescott centre back and Baines to left back.
I see what you mean about Rodwell, he could vert well be a ball playing centre half in the future. I think at the moment he is best of in midfield, there he can make more mistakes and no be punished.
It’ll also improve his distribution playing in midfield. Moyes and Andy Holden did say though that he’s been moved into midfield permanantly. We’ll see what happens.
Not really to be honest. I think Lescott’s suffering because he’s lacking confidence, even at centre back he looked a little shaky.
I think he’s just going through one of those spells, he has been more or less immaculate for two years so maybe it’s his time.
But I do like Baines, I wouldn’t mind him getting games as he’s done well of late. I’d move Lescott centre back and Baines to left back.
I see what you mean about Rodwell, he could vert well be a ball playing centre half in the future. I think at the moment he is best of in midfield, there he can make more mistakes and no be punished.
It’ll also improve his distribution playing in midfield. Moyes and Andy Holden did say though that he’s been moved into midfield permanantly. We’ll see what happens.
Looks like Osman is playing the Carsley role....kind of......with the added ability of passing the ball fluently out to the attacking half.....Bolton game aside (I think the players were exhausted after Man U and it’s always hard to back up after such a high), I think it’s starting to work.
My understanding is that Fellaini will be suspended against Fulham? I guess that would mean Timmy would come in for a straight swap.
As for Castillo, should definitely be given a go. Don’t think he looked that bad, and gotta have a decent look at him before deciding if he’s worth persisting with or not.....haven’t really done that yet.....
My understanding is that Fellaini will be suspended against Fulham? I guess that would mean Timmy would come in for a straight swap.
As for Castillo, should definitely be given a go. Don’t think he looked that bad, and gotta have a decent look at him before deciding if he’s worth persisting with or not.....haven’t really done that yet.....
I don’t think Castillo is getting a look in coz he has absolutely no positional sense, can’t get goal side of opposing midfielders and doesn’t really know what he’s doin....
Even with Fellaini playing, well I think we still need someone who runs our team, someone who likes having lots of the ball, and someone who would like dictating our tempo...
Oh wait we have one... Arteta! Arteta is someone who loves having lots of the ball and naturally likes sitting deep to retrieve it. Arteta in a centre midfield with Fellaini would have the perfect balance of battle and class.
For his size no one in the team holds his own better than Arteta. He also has the quick feet and ability to find space in tight spots, a lot like Osman but Arteta has more strength. Arteta can also tackle, unlike Cahill and Fellaini. I am not saying Arteta is the new Carsley but then again who is going to be?
Oh wait we have one... Arteta! Arteta is someone who loves having lots of the ball and naturally likes sitting deep to retrieve it. Arteta in a centre midfield with Fellaini would have the perfect balance of battle and class.
For his size no one in the team holds his own better than Arteta. He also has the quick feet and ability to find space in tight spots, a lot like Osman but Arteta has more strength. Arteta can also tackle, unlike Cahill and Fellaini. I am not saying Arteta is the new Carsley but then again who is going to be?
We don't really need a new Carsley, we need someone who runs our game and Arteta is that man. Playing well or not he is our best footballer and on the wing he doesn't get enough of the ball. This doesn't make any sense as he is the player who makes us tick and should have the ball every attack.
For me I would play Ossie and Pienaar out on the wings (with a view to buying a winger in January so that Ossie is at most a squad player). With Arteta and Fellaini in the middle (Arteta our engine and Fellaini allowed to roam like he has done well recently) and Cahill and one of the lazy bastards up front (Cahill to battle and be clever and the Yak to do fuck all and hopefully poke one in).
Also I can't believe that when our strikers are playing so bad that Vaughan is not getting a look in. He looks hungry. Unlike the Yak and Saha that don't look bothered at all (last night's performance was piss-poor).
Arteta needs a new lease of life at Everton as his cameo on the wing has lost it's funny side. Sadly Moyes will not see any sense.
£17 million... my arse!
Lewis Abbott, what planet are you on mate? Some of your quotes had me baffled there I must say. Everton are ? and have been for some time ? woefully narrow. To add some much needed width we are playing Arteta and Pienaar wide. What would we gain from Arteta playing a central midfield role? We need a powerful, ball winning player in the centre who can win balls and spread it out to our wide players. At the moment I would say that Cahill and Fellaini would be best suited to that ? not Arteta!
I’d have no problems playing Arteta in the middle if we had someone who could replace him outwide and do a job.
At the moment if Arteta gets moved into central positions we have to play Osman there. Ossie gives his all and he’s a decent central midfielder but he struggles outwide.
We just don’t have the players, the balance would be all wrong.
Arteta and Fellaini is a big no no, we’d get overrun in midfield against better teams. Neither are very hardworking and neither seem to like defending. The Osman/Fellaini combo works because Osman covers alot of ground and continually covers Fellaini. Arteta isn’t lazy by any means but you won’t see him defending when Fellaini bombs forward.
If we buy a winger then yes I’m all for it, Arteta would be a very good creative central midfielder in a 4-5-1. At the moment no chance, I’d like to see him drfting between left, right and centre during games.
He’s been doing well on the left of late to be honest. He was bright against both Man utd and Bolton I thought although his final ball needs to improve.
At the moment if Arteta gets moved into central positions we have to play Osman there. Ossie gives his all and he’s a decent central midfielder but he struggles outwide.
We just don’t have the players, the balance would be all wrong.
Arteta and Fellaini is a big no no, we’d get overrun in midfield against better teams. Neither are very hardworking and neither seem to like defending. The Osman/Fellaini combo works because Osman covers alot of ground and continually covers Fellaini. Arteta isn’t lazy by any means but you won’t see him defending when Fellaini bombs forward.
If we buy a winger then yes I’m all for it, Arteta would be a very good creative central midfielder in a 4-5-1. At the moment no chance, I’d like to see him drfting between left, right and centre during games.
He’s been doing well on the left of late to be honest. He was bright against both Man utd and Bolton I thought although his final ball needs to improve.
Tim Cahill is easily one of the biggest assets this club has. He scores goals, goals win matches period. He is getting a fair bit of criticism lately, which I simply can?t understand. He is never going to be an all round midfielder he is an attacking midfielder. For Australia he has played in the middle nearly the entire time and looked brilliant. He occasionally goes missing in Everton games because the ball never makes it to him in is simply punted long and wide to the corridor so lovingly trudged by AJ in the past. Its not his fault that the midfield looks shaky its that the standard of our midfield isn?t always of a quality to work with an attacking mid.
Listen to what Belgium fans have said, they say don’t expect Fellaini to be a goal machine. He lacks Cahill’s timing, its just that he has a physical advantage when in the box.
I have been happy with Fellaini’s recent matches but am still confused over his true roll. He isn’t an out an out goal scorer, defender or creative player. I see him as a mix, which is far from a bad thing. While we will need a Cahill replacement that won’t be a concern for years yet. If David Moyes claims Fellaini is a similar type of player to Cahill it must be asked why get two players so alike when we have no holding midfielder. That?s nothing personal against Fellaini, he is a good player I just can?t understand why he was the major priority. I think he is a good acquisition and had previously been looked at but I still think it was a last minute deal because the club couldn?t get a holding mid.
Listen to what Belgium fans have said, they say don’t expect Fellaini to be a goal machine. He lacks Cahill’s timing, its just that he has a physical advantage when in the box.
I have been happy with Fellaini’s recent matches but am still confused over his true roll. He isn’t an out an out goal scorer, defender or creative player. I see him as a mix, which is far from a bad thing. While we will need a Cahill replacement that won’t be a concern for years yet. If David Moyes claims Fellaini is a similar type of player to Cahill it must be asked why get two players so alike when we have no holding midfielder. That?s nothing personal against Fellaini, he is a good player I just can?t understand why he was the major priority. I think he is a good acquisition and had previously been looked at but I still think it was a last minute deal because the club couldn?t get a holding mid.
Uhh, Cahill is our most dynamic player... not our best, but our most important. He is a winner!
I still wish we?d signed Fernandes, pound for pound I think he has a lot more to offer than Fellaini. Although the big lad is improving all the time and is scoring some cruical goals.
Has Maruouane "Screech" Fellaini saved our season?? 3 goals now has our record signing finally settled in? I didn't think he had started badly, but I am starting to admire him more and more by each game.
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1 Posted 30/10/2008 at 13:55:52
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