The Mail Bag
Heitinga context
Comments (41)
I wanted to put the Heitinga signing into context with activities of other Premiers League Clubs. Heitinga has close to 50 caps for the Dutch National team, which he has captained; he was the Dutch Player of the Year in 2008, he is just 25, he can play several different positions. Everton want him as a right back but he has played for Holland — the no.3 ranked team in the world — as a central defender, he has played Champions League football for Atletico Madrid, he is Ajax — schooled and trained. He cost between £5M and £6M.
Glen Johnson - who is a good right back, regularly in the English national team - cost Liverpool £17M. Spurs spent £9M on Houghton, £7M on Naughton, £8.5M on Corluka , £7.5M on Bale, £3.5M on Assou-Ekotto and 3mill on Kyle Walker and originally 3.5mill on Chimbonda — that's £41.5M on full backs, none of whom have Heitinga's pedigree.
Wayne Bridge cost between £12M and £14M....
Second piece of context for all of us who get very frustrated at lack of movement from Everton on transfers. This is what Uncle Bill and Father Dave had to convince Johny Heitinga to do. (Ask yourself if you would do the same in your job situation.)
He played in Spain, for a team in the Champions League. He lived in Madrid — one of the great cities and climates of Europe. He had moved his family from Amsterdam to Madrid and they had settled and were happy. He paid less than 25% in taxes, he almost certainly had a higher wage at Atletico then he will have at Everton. We only introduced the possibility of moving away from Madrid to him a couple of days ago. We convinced him to come to Everton - I don't think we should underestimate the convincing skills of Mssrs Kenwright and Moyes.
Well done — now let's try Johny and Pienaar down the right, Bily and Bainsey down the left, and see how that looks.
Graham Brown, Posted 01/09/2009 at 16:30:27
Comments
Note: the following content is not moderated or vetted by the site owners at the time of submission. Comments are the responsibility of the poster. Disclaimer
He was recently given a torrid time by James Milner so i have my doubts over him. Hopefully he’ll prove me wrong
I grow increasingly tired of the pessimism that replaces realism on here, but good to know there are still some Evertonians for whom the glass is still half full!
Even Cahill came under fire in one thread today. It beggars belief... That Arteta’s useless too!
It has undoubtedly been a highly frustrating Summer, but what a deal we’ve ended up getting: £20m-plus for Lescott, funding three top-class signings in his place.
Hopefully, they will collectively solve our perceived ’problems’ and help kick start our season on all fronts.
So well done David Moyes and Bill Kenwright. Patience and a bit of brinkmanship was right after all. And far more exciting!
Actually feel sorry for Leon Osman and Tony Hibbert now, despite us all knowing what needed to be done. Hope they respond in the quiet, professional manner we never give them enough credit for.
And as for Lescott; good luck. I’d have done exactly the same if someone offered to double my money overnight. Anyone who says otherwise is deluding themselves.
Money talks - and nowhere does it shout louder and with more vulgarity than the so-called Premier League.
Let them all kill their respective golden geese. We’ll still be here.
What an encouraging week. Come on you blues.
I think oveall things are good, the only reason to be concerned are the relative strengths of Man C and Spurs, we are still a top 8 club with a young improving team!
If he is so good why the hell are Atletico letting him go? I rate Moyes but this just reeks of cover for a number of positions. To quote the Mr Moyes ’I am sure he will be an exciting signing for us.’ Yeh right, really exciting. I cannot sit still with the thought of seeing this guy play. Yawn.
However, I feel that it’s still not enough to push to the "next level".
The fact that with the Lescott cash we effectively haven’t spent a penny - is a FUCKING DISGRACE!
Heitinga can play three positions but he can’t play all of them at once. We actually needed three players, especially to challenge in the league and Europe!
Where the bloody hell was the money for Moyes? He even stated himself that we needed more players. I agree that our squad has improved over the summer, which is a good thing, but for me, we really really really needed another creative midfield player and it feels like an opportunity missed.
In Moyes We Trust, Lescott who??
In an age where clubs need bailing out every season just to save themselves from themselves, it sounds like a sound, self-financing policy to me.
Anonymous Arabs on one hand and Leeds & Newcastle on the other. I’m happy in the middle, with three quality signings for one departure — at NO cost.
How can that possibly not make good sense?
Still, at least it’ll give some of you a continued opportunity to snipe at Moyes and Kenwright until the next window opens.
I think some of you just want us to spend for the sake of it. What’s the point when we look to have covered all the bases for nothing?
It’s value for money — not how much money — that counts and David Moyes must surely take some beating on that score.
Since then we have shipped out Van der meyde, Valente, Castillo, Kissock, Lescott and I believe we have sent out Lucas Jutkiewicz on loan somewhere.
Whilst we have brought in just Distin, Heitinga and Bilyaletdinov.... (I'm not counting Jo, as we had him for the last part of last season as well so hes not really a new addition.)
Now I now the players we released were not major players for us by any means, bar Lescott, but even so we ended last season with a squad on the bones of its arse, let 6 squad players go and replaced them with 3.....
Am I the only one baffled?
Van der Vaart, Defour, Banega, even David bloody Bentley, just one marquee signing and I would have been absolutely over the moon... Oh well, always January I suppose.
We have a decent first 11 to match most teams, but with all the games in Europe, (hopefully) 2 cup runs and a full league fixture list, we could be looking at close on 60 games.
We need more quality in depth, we need real creativity to supplement pienaar and arteta who are our only sources.
Moyes obvously tried to bring in Banega on a free to do this, but he should have been given funds to actually purchase banega or someone like defour.
Last season I think we net spent 0, since the money we spent on Fellaini was what we got for johnson and mcfadden in the previous January transfer window. This season again we net spend 0.
If Moyes turned around and said "I’m happy with what I have, and there is no need to make additions" then your point would have merit, but he has said the opposite publicly in an attempt to get kenwright to find provide some cash.
Moyes continues to do well with what he has, but we are fighting a losing battle to attempt to get 4th place when Kenwright continually fails to provide the resources for Moyes to strengthen the team.
Michael, J P Kissock never made the 1st team and for the last couple of seasons he’s spent time out on loan at Accrington Stanley and Gretna so I don’t think we can count him as a ’loss of a body’. Same goes for Van der Meyde really (in a different context).
You have a point with Valente as I don’t think there’s really anybody to replace Baines if he gets injured ... (except Phil Neville!) but all in all I think the current squad is stronger than the one we had on 31 May.
Yes, he has a similar number of caps to the ex-Blackburn reserve (and five-times league winner with PSV / numerous appearances in the CL with PSV / suffered a broken leg whilst at Blackburn) Andre Ooijer.
Wayne,
I think Moyes’s problem is not so much a lack of cash but rather a fixation on the players he wants for a given position to the exclusion of anyone else — so it was Banega or no-one, or Heitinga or no-one.
First either a right sided winger or a creative midfielder. After witnessing his stellar performances in South Africa, Peanut can play either role and obviously when Arteta is back we will be OK in both positions. Sadly I think Van der Vaart would have wanted too much money and Bentley would have cost too much money.
The second position is a defensive midfielder. I think Pip does OK there and Rodwell is very promising but I assume Heitinga will play right back so I still think we are a player short unless Tim converts which would be a waste of his goalscoring.
The squad does seem (to me) slightly stronger this year, but nowhere near the next level.
Goodbye and good riddance, Nico.
So its Pip to RB and Johnny in the middle.
Might work – lets see Davey do his magic!
Having now had time to reflect on this I’m not so sure he will be deployed at right back. If he were to be, where does that leave Neville? Moyes surely wouldn’t be prepared to leave him out. Playing him in midfield isn’t an option as we have much better performers in that area of the park.
I think Moyes will opt for Neville at right back and deploy Heitinga in a defensive midfield role but how might that effect his other team selections? It will be interesting to see how this one develops. Might he deployed in a Carsley type role? I guess we’ll have to wait and see.
Plus the Yak, Arteta and Jags back I think we could do as well as last year.
English 2008 Player of the Year — RONALDO
German 2008 Player of the Year — RIBERY
Spanish 2008 Player of the Year — MESSI
Dutch 2008 Player of the Year — HEITINGA.
Now, I'm not saying he is just as good as these players, but it does give you something to think about.
You usually have to be pretty damn good to win a top footballing country's Player of the Year.
He’s gonna be a cult at Everton you watch. COYB
There’s one thing, although he’s naturally a defender by trade, there’s no doubt if Moyesy was thinking of using him in the holding midfield role he would do well there, he certainly knows how to play the game after coming through the ranks at Ajax, there schooled to play football at that club, and in the right way too so there’s one thing. Wherever he plays, I don't think we’ll be seeing much hoofball, if any from him, and going by Distin’s first game too, it looks like we might start to play football from the back and into midfield instead of bypassing it!
I'm generally happy with the business done this transfer market, although I would've liked to have seen us get one more midfielder in, either centrally or right side. But with are signings, and the injured 4 of Arteta, Jags, Yakubu and even Anichebe coming back are team looks really strong this season. Once everyone's fit and firing on all cylinders, I'm confident we will be up there challenging for top 6, top 4 maybe?! COYB!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=smPPtVNpTCc&feature=related
Rodwell will shine even greater learning from Dutch 2008 Player of the Year — HEITiNGA.
The ole ginger fella pulls another great signing out the bag..... Fantastic + Bily the kid.... COYB.....
Yes the strength of the Dutch teams has been their attacking players — but they have also had some pretty good defenders as well e.g. Rud Krol, Wim Surbier, Ronald Koeman and Danny Blind. You don’t get to be amongst the top ranked nations by having a useless defence!!!
Let’s give Heitinga a chance, he’s not yet made a start for the Blues and some of you are rubbishing the guy. Personally I think it will be a good signing. I think the signings in the last week have been good — but what a pity that yet again we don’t do the deals before the season starts. That has happened too often in recent seasons.
Take last season — we finished 9 points behind Arsenal, after a rather indifferent start and making signings at the very last minute!! If we want to make a challenge for the top 4 or maintain a top 6 position, we can’t afford to keep giving other teams a headstart — we need to do most of our "recruiting" before the season starts!!!
I wouldn’t play Heitinga as a defensive midfielder, he is good as a right back IF he has no direct skillful opponent. He is good as a central defender aalthough I think Jags and Yobo are better at defending, and Distin perhaps as well. He is reasonably comfortable on the ball and trained in the Ajax-system so he won’t hoof the ball upfield too often. He is strong in the air both defensively and in attacking situations, scoring 3 goals for Atletico last season, and 12 goals in his last two seasons for Ajax.
When Jags, Yobo and Distin are all able to play I can only see Hetinga going to the right slot in defence. Don’t expect him to be the best defender you ever saw despite having over 50 caps at the age of 25 - Jaap Stam had only 8 caps at that age but Hetinga is not as good as Stam was in his best days. It just shows that he was very good very young and that he has loads of experience.
Do not get me wrong: I think overall Heitinga is a very good signing, if Davey can teach him some things he will be a class player for us. If he can make the next step at Everton he might become a world class defender. Just don’t expect he is a world class player already.
Whilst we have brought in just Distin, Heitinga and Bilyaletdinov.... (I'm not counting Jo, as we had him for the last part of last season aswell so hes not really a new addition)"
Michael, I’m not having a go at you, but this is typical of a lot of Evertonians at the minute. You include Kissock, Lukas and Shandy in the people that have left, despite the fact that they aren’t really involved in the first team, yet you omit, Mustafi, Arnoux, Peterlin, and at a push Garbutt from your list of people brought in to the club.
If you omit the unimportant players we have lost Lescott and Nuno, and brought in Billy, Johnny and Distin. Which is an improvement.
If you include everyone we shipped out 6 players, some of whom were failures, and brought in 6 players (not counting Jo or Garbutt), so worst case is that we matched player for player.
Now personally I would like to see the squad grow, but if you are going to complain, get your facts right.
Has anyone seen him hoof it? I heard he’s able to hoof it further than anyone else at Athletico and the Dutch team. Get your head on that Louis mate.
David, I’m an Evertonian and if I was on Lescotts money at Everton, or Rooneys, hell, even Osmans, and someone offered me double to play for someone else, I’d tell em to sling their hook. I’m not deluded, I’d just prefer to play for Everton for a decent screw (more per week than my annual salary in most cases) than for anyone else for even more, more than anyone needs.
But as for Lescott, he’s not an Evertonian and never will be, so I’m ok with him leaving us!
(After the Heitinga signing)
He really can't help himself, can he?
Mark Murphy, that’s the difference between you and I to Lescott, he is not an Evertonian, whereas we would tell other to go spit, he asks where he signs.
I am not at all unhappy with the signing of Heitinga, experienced Dutch international utility man seems a snip at £6million quid, can’t go wrong, etc; it’s all just a little underwhelming.
Now Heitinga + big name signing ( even Bentley who I recall to have done rather well at Blackburn) in one day and I really would have been dancing from the rooftops.
It’s a thin line.
But surely its best to see how they perform
playing for us.
In the case of Heitinga, you dont collect the number of caps,
he has, by being a donkey.
If we all judge a player by one game, you would never sign anybody.
A certain english fullback, signed by our neighbours costing £18 million, had a nightmare in a recent Wembley international.
and he is rated the best right back in Europe,
by certain sections of the press.
So just let the new lads settle in, and then judge.
Another (small) point from the OP, even Madridistas don’t pretend they have a good climate, their old saying translates as "nine months of winter and three months of hell".
Add Your Comments
In order to post a comment to the MailBag, you need to be logged in as a registered user of the site.
Or Sign up as a ToffeeWeb Member — it's free, takes just a few minutes and will allow you to post your comments on articles and MailBag submissions across the site.
-sm.jpg)
-sm.jpg)
-sm.jpg)
1 Posted 01/09/2009 at 21:07:18
Report abuse
Does anyone who knows Spanish or Dutch football know where is actually plays?
A lot has been said about his versitality, however can play right back, center mid and center back can be said of Yobo, Neville and Jags, As i undestand it he is a center back, but obviously it would benefit us hugely if he was a good full back, and by that i mean can contriute going forward as well as defensively.