The Mail Bag
Pissed off... or not?
Comments (31)
I once worked for a company that used to pay a yearly bonus to all its employees. In one particularly good year everyone was expecting a bumper bonus. The company itself had intimated that it was going to be a "biggie." As it turned out, the actual bonus paid, while "substantial" was not what had been expected. It lead to what became one of those oft quoted lines, "How can (name of company witheld) give you six grand for nowt and still manage to piss you off?"
That's how I felt yesterday at around five past five, after initially hearing "We're not finished yet." I couldn't help (and at my age I should know better) but feel a surge of excitement and expectation course through me as my imagination ran riot for the "biggie" to be announced right at the death. After all, we'd only spent the money we'd got from the sale of Lescott hadn't we, so surely there must be at least another £10 million or so... so who was it going to be?
It didn't take long for the next noteable quote to come out of the club "We're done, we couldn't complete the other deals..." (or something like that).
It took even less time for a stream of insults and the like to fill Everton forums, slagging Bill Kenwright right left and centre for "failing" to complete those last minute deals and calling him some VERY unsavoury names.
I've thought about it since and still can't make my mind up whether I'm "out of order" for feeling disappointed in getting three new signings of a level of player who could prove to be very very good for the club. Or whether I'm "right" to feel disappointed, having been led to expect more.
I ask myself if it was MY business, and I was going to have to go further into debt in order to provide £10 million or so to strengthen the team, whether I would stop after spending an otherwise unexpected windfall of £22-24 million? After all, the team's now been strengthened BEYOND what I first thought we'd be able to manage... isn't it?
So... are you pissed off or not?
Brian Williams, Posted 02/09/2009 at 07:08:10
Comments
Note: the following content is not moderated or vetted by the site owners at the time of submission. Comments are the responsibility of the poster. Disclaimer
Brian, it's what we call "managing the customers expectations". Its a key part of most peoples jobs and Everton are lousy at it.
Promise to have the job done in 2 weeks and get it done in 10 days - happy customer. Promise 1 week and get it done in 10 days - unhappy customer.
For each of the last few years, there has been a mismatch between what EFC (Moyes in particular) say and what happens in the transfer window. "Expecting 4 more signings" stuff is a classic.
Even standing back from the "expectation" and trying to be more objective, I still think it is disappointing. We have lost Lescott, Castillo, Jacobsen and Shandy (yeah, I know). We’ve just renewed Jo loan and replaced the other 3. We’ve only stood still, if not gone backwards. We’ve certainly gone backwards if you look at what teams around us have done.
Q:- What would we have done in the transfer market if we hadn’t sold Lescott?
The frustrating thing is that we have some really good players and a couple more quality signings (esp in MF) would give us a very strong squad.
If Moyes had said he hoped to bring in one more rather than 4, maybe more, then maybe we wouldn’t have got our hopes up so much. Like Ciaran says Everton are shite at managing our expectations. I don’t know why they set themselves up for such a fall.
They all need to learn a lesson in keeping their gobs shut. "Watch this space", "Wow", "Working hard to bring players in early", "No first team players are for sale", "I make the decisions", "Next 48 hours", "4, maybe more", "We’re not finished yet".
It’s just a long list of verbal bullshit.
They all need to learn a lesson in keeping their gobs shut. "Watch this space", "Wow", "Working hard to bring players in early", "No first team players are for sale", "I make the decisions", "Next 48 hours", "4, maybe more", "We’re not finished yet".
It’s just a long list of verbal bullshit.
I’m just waiting for the drip on club PR to spring into action and do two things....wind me up even more...and placate the naive.
It looks like the team could improve if the players bought live up to the expectations, so that im happy about. Im happy that we have 3 new faces to go straight into the team because it keeps things fresh, we would be in danger on becoming stale and predictable if we had kept Lescott and brought no new players in! Our fans always seem to moan and remember previous so called negative summers, whilst forgetting that we also often still get positive outcomes, like 2004, sold Rooney, brought in Cahill & Marcus Bent, lost Gravesen in January, got Arteta, finished 4th! Last summer, only Saha and Fellaini (of any note), the latter ending up our top scorer and we had a 5th place finish and an FA cup final! The window is closed, we have what we have for whatever reason, so now is the time to just get behind the team!
I wonder if Heitinga and Distin had come in before Lescott went - together with Billy, Kranjcar and maybe Naughton - how different we would all be feeling. That is only one extra player, but we wouldn’t have had to put up with the endless shite comong from the corridors of power at Everton.
I know hindsight is a wonderful thing, but so is management - and that is what is so obviously lacking at Everton. We have lost six points by arsing round since July 1st instead of doing what our competitors for European football have been doing, ie strengthening and freshening up. We do this every year and do not learn from it, and that goes for the expectant fans as well as the club executives.
Until the club has sufficient cashflow management, we will never progress from where we are to where we could be.
I know hindsight is a wonderful thing, but so is management - and that is what is so obviously lacking at Everton. We have lost six points by arsing round since July 1st instead of doing what our competitors for European football have been doing, ie strengthening and freshening up. We do this every year and do not learn from it, and that goes for the expectant fans as well as the club executives.
Until the club has sufficient cashflow management, we will never progress from where we are to where we could be.
Sorry, thats 2 extra players, but only the price of one!!!!!
While I agree that the club has done itself no favours with its poor PR and communication, I rather like the fact that Moyes has been so upfront with us about what he’s been hoping to achieve. In the end we’ve done decent business and strengthened the squad a little, but Moyes won’t be really satisfied because he wanted to bring in at least one or two more players to try and move us on from where we were last year.
Brian it’s whats to be expected from Bullshit Billy but unfortunately there are still far too many subservient cap doffers willing to leave him be. A few simple facts:
The season ended in May - the team had significant injuries and knew those players would not return to the first team even by the start of the new season and no obvious replacements amongst the pitifully small squad
The CEO states new players will be brought in early to bed in with their team mates
The season ticket renewal early bird is even earlier than usual - fans still on a high from their wembley trips and willing to invest given the statements from the club
The transfer window opens 1st June
The manager makes statements of not expecting signings which goes directly against what the CEO had said earlier but after the season ticket early bird renewal deadline had passed
The club appear to sign a number of kids and players no one has ever heard of from obscure US college leagues
The club is outbid on at least two players - speculation as to why but was it the payment terms on offer?
The whole Lescott affair goes public only to drag on and on
The season starts with a with a whimper and good hiding from Arsenal, are we the only team not to have bought a senior player?
Still no signings and another defeat by Burnley who outpassed and played us, I dont give a shit if they beat a team of Man U kids.
Lescott finally goes and suddenly DM can buy players - did he have any money before?
Smoke and mirrors regarding the Banega saga, did we or didnt we apply for a work permit and if we did is it any wonder with the publicity of the Lescott sale that his owning club decide cash only as they know we are no longer skint.
The club signs a senior player and the team snatches victory in the last gasps of a piss poor match against Wigan.
Billy Bullshitter can’t help himself by making more idiotic statements at the closure of the transfer window - yeah Billy so.......yeah still waiting........
The season ended in May - the team had significant injuries and knew those players would not return to the first team even by the start of the new season and no obvious replacements amongst the pitifully small squad
The CEO states new players will be brought in early to bed in with their team mates
The season ticket renewal early bird is even earlier than usual - fans still on a high from their wembley trips and willing to invest given the statements from the club
The transfer window opens 1st June
The manager makes statements of not expecting signings which goes directly against what the CEO had said earlier but after the season ticket early bird renewal deadline had passed
The club appear to sign a number of kids and players no one has ever heard of from obscure US college leagues
The club is outbid on at least two players - speculation as to why but was it the payment terms on offer?
The whole Lescott affair goes public only to drag on and on
The season starts with a with a whimper and good hiding from Arsenal, are we the only team not to have bought a senior player?
Still no signings and another defeat by Burnley who outpassed and played us, I dont give a shit if they beat a team of Man U kids.
Lescott finally goes and suddenly DM can buy players - did he have any money before?
Smoke and mirrors regarding the Banega saga, did we or didnt we apply for a work permit and if we did is it any wonder with the publicity of the Lescott sale that his owning club decide cash only as they know we are no longer skint.
The club signs a senior player and the team snatches victory in the last gasps of a piss poor match against Wigan.
Billy Bullshitter can’t help himself by making more idiotic statements at the closure of the transfer window - yeah Billy so.......yeah still waiting........
Ciaran Duff - You’ve summed up my feelings pretty well. Pissed off I am, its debatable regarding the team being strengthened.
The PR issues sounding the club are a joke. I think its time they actually employed somebody to improve it. All they do is wind up the fans with their throw away comments. They must know we are hanging on their every word. It just makes a bad situation worse.
I wish we could get some investment in. There are some teams now that have been bought and sold and bought and sold again but nobody seems the slightest bit interested in Everton. Nineteen games to play in the Europa League if we go all the way... its probably best that we don’t with the size of our squad.
The PR issues sounding the club are a joke. I think its time they actually employed somebody to improve it. All they do is wind up the fans with their throw away comments. They must know we are hanging on their every word. It just makes a bad situation worse.
I wish we could get some investment in. There are some teams now that have been bought and sold and bought and sold again but nobody seems the slightest bit interested in Everton. Nineteen games to play in the Europa League if we go all the way... its probably best that we don’t with the size of our squad.
They left it too late as always. Deliberately in my opinion.
Insulting our intelligence yet again.
Insulting our intelligence yet again.
Check out Kenwright on the official site almost boasting that we never were in for what is possibly the best deal this summer - Krancjar.
Not as if we needed a central playmaker.
Astounding.
Not as if we needed a central playmaker.
Astounding.
Disappointment depends to a large extent on what you were expecting. Supporters who confuse us with clubs with an excess of money will drive themselves crazy through unrealistic comparisons. But as Ciaran Duff says earlier in this thread, it’s also down to ‘managing the customers expectations…. and Everton are lousy at it’. Examples given by others highlight the failings: notably CEO statements about early signings that appear to start (Naughton), fail (maybe for good reasons), then inexplicably stop; or Moyes’s musings that about having no money which appear to contradict the official club line. This is in part just poor PR and, I suspect, an expression of power struggles and manoeuvring within the club (as happens in every large organisation).
But we also have to recognise the difficulty when the ‘customer’ is a football fan. Large corporations routinely put the most glossy or saccharine spin on their activities – take a look at your average ‘mission statement’. The thing is that either no-one takes any notice or we expect them to lie to us. Switch to football and as Steve Edwards noted, you have a large constituency who ‘are hanging on their every word’. If you were looking at the situation rationally, the best advice to a football club would be ‘silence is golden’. There are other good reasons for limited disclosure. Why tell every rival club and agent, for example, how much you have to spend, who you want to spend it on or even how many players you want? But clubs do it, in part, because we want them to do it. Fans demand to know the budget, who we are in for and exactly what the club is up to. Break the implicit promise in any of these statements and IT’S A DISGRACE (the favourite phrase of the permanently pissed off). So, Moyes says he wants four players, we only get three and IT’S A DISGRACE. Kenwright even more stupidly says that he’s ‘still working on deals’ with half an hour to go in the transfer window and it doesn’t come off - IT’S A DISGRACE. Shit happens. Keep in mind that Redknapp went for 5 deals on transfer day and got one.
There is unlikely to be any happy ending because this is really ‘a never ending story’. The best we can hope for is less said, more done from the club and more realistic expectations from us. Yeah, right.
But we also have to recognise the difficulty when the ‘customer’ is a football fan. Large corporations routinely put the most glossy or saccharine spin on their activities – take a look at your average ‘mission statement’. The thing is that either no-one takes any notice or we expect them to lie to us. Switch to football and as Steve Edwards noted, you have a large constituency who ‘are hanging on their every word’. If you were looking at the situation rationally, the best advice to a football club would be ‘silence is golden’. There are other good reasons for limited disclosure. Why tell every rival club and agent, for example, how much you have to spend, who you want to spend it on or even how many players you want? But clubs do it, in part, because we want them to do it. Fans demand to know the budget, who we are in for and exactly what the club is up to. Break the implicit promise in any of these statements and IT’S A DISGRACE (the favourite phrase of the permanently pissed off). So, Moyes says he wants four players, we only get three and IT’S A DISGRACE. Kenwright even more stupidly says that he’s ‘still working on deals’ with half an hour to go in the transfer window and it doesn’t come off - IT’S A DISGRACE. Shit happens. Keep in mind that Redknapp went for 5 deals on transfer day and got one.
There is unlikely to be any happy ending because this is really ‘a never ending story’. The best we can hope for is less said, more done from the club and more realistic expectations from us. Yeah, right.
What EFC really needs is somebody with a clue to run the PR department.
I do not think we are as inept as the PR ’machine’ (made in china 1940) would have us believe, I mean surely we couldn’t be.
But I am happy with who’s come in this window, even though we haven’t as many as I’d hope, I think we’ve signed more quality than usual.
Defour is in the CL, Banega is required by his club, Krancjar’s is the one position we’re ok in, Bentley is a moron.
For the 1st time in a long time, we have brought in the type of player this window that would normally have went elsewhere IMO...
I do not think we are as inept as the PR ’machine’ (made in china 1940) would have us believe, I mean surely we couldn’t be.
But I am happy with who’s come in this window, even though we haven’t as many as I’d hope, I think we’ve signed more quality than usual.
Defour is in the CL, Banega is required by his club, Krancjar’s is the one position we’re ok in, Bentley is a moron.
For the 1st time in a long time, we have brought in the type of player this window that would normally have went elsewhere IMO...
I was trawling the net 4 the past 2 days constantly like all other blues,hoping for a marquee signing....BUT,we are in the midst of a deep recession,we are already skint and also have the stadium to part fund.
This in mind,i personally think 3 1st teamers and highly regarded potential like arnoux,peterson,garbutt,mustapha and the 15 yr old petersbro kid all for the loss of lescott is excellent business.
btw,anyone know whether loan signings have finished with the window? heard a rumour theres a week left so i’m still trawling :)
This in mind,i personally think 3 1st teamers and highly regarded potential like arnoux,peterson,garbutt,mustapha and the 15 yr old petersbro kid all for the loss of lescott is excellent business.
btw,anyone know whether loan signings have finished with the window? heard a rumour theres a week left so i’m still trawling :)
So we got a midfield player in Bily. Left side i hear you say and not wat we needed, apparently we needed a central mid player to go along with tim fella art nev rod pie. So a left sided player to compliment our lack of left sided players. Pienarr is Centre Mid best poss. Right back to replace Hibb, not a man on earth could complain bout that? Central def in Distin who has been a prem league player for seasons and a performer. Jo on loan fills a gap that vic and vaughan are not good enough to fill. I know we could have and maybe should have signed more but the players that have come in are quality, not bench players.
While not the best of silly seasons in the lateness of it all. I believe we are better now than at the end of May
While not the best of silly seasons in the lateness of it all. I believe we are better now than at the end of May
Isn’t it probable that unless you can offer CL football and/or large amounts of cash to both player and selling club then the player and club will be likely to wait as long as possible for a better deal to come in?
Isn’t it therefore likely that this is the reason why we are doing late deals and not lack of organisation, ability or will by the club?
Isn’t it therefore likely that this is the reason why we are doing late deals and not lack of organisation, ability or will by the club?
Just read something from Phil McNulty on the BBC. He said we were in for van der Vaart, and he was keen on coming to GP. Unfortunately Real Madrid pulled the plug at the last minute, deciding they wanted to keep him.
I’m actually not pissed off at all... last year I was fuming at the obvious fcuk up .. this season.... I can see the effort a little more... some poor luck in part.. Naughton gazumped.... Banega due to injury issues... but hey... we still managed to pull off 3 poetntially top class signings... who says Bily isn’t as good as Defour....
I was getting very annoyed when Moyes was refusing to sell when it was clear we were being offered more than the market value .. but thank goodness common sense prevailed (even though forced).... and we can see the benefits now.
I was getting very annoyed when Moyes was refusing to sell when it was clear we were being offered more than the market value .. but thank goodness common sense prevailed (even though forced).... and we can see the benefits now.
It has become clear that there was never any money to spend before Lescott was sold. As soon as Lescott went, we started spending.
We spent £21m on three players, and £2.5m went to Wolves, totally £23.5m, after receiving £24m for Lescott. It’s no coincidence.
There is no money at all at the club. The club is on the break even line, anything we receive, we pay out in expenses.
We spent £21m on three players, and £2.5m went to Wolves, totally £23.5m, after receiving £24m for Lescott. It’s no coincidence.
There is no money at all at the club. The club is on the break even line, anything we receive, we pay out in expenses.
Matthew
Take City, Sunderland and poss Stoke, its been a very unproductive transfer window.... It seems clubs are tighting their belts....... Even the top four who have the extra CL income, would rather bank it than spend.....May be its not the time to take any extra debt out... who knows, time will tell.
Take City, Sunderland and poss Stoke, its been a very unproductive transfer window.... It seems clubs are tighting their belts....... Even the top four who have the extra CL income, would rather bank it than spend.....May be its not the time to take any extra debt out... who knows, time will tell.
Ciaran, we got Arteta as a central playmaker
What part of ’ watch this space ’ don’t you get.
I was going to write about smoke and mirrors and willing suspension of disbelief being Billy Bullshit’s stock in trade, but....
What if it comes out down the line, that this Club ( and others for all we know ) have been teetering on the brink of administration for years and it was only the smoke and mirrors of Blue Bill that kept all the plates spinning on the rods for as long as they did.
Just a thought...
I still tend towards the Billy Bullshitter end of the spectrum though and the word on DK, when ever that comes in might clear the muddy waters.
Nowt wrong with a bit of blue tinted double think of the cake and eat it type.
I was going to write about smoke and mirrors and willing suspension of disbelief being Billy Bullshit’s stock in trade, but....
What if it comes out down the line, that this Club ( and others for all we know ) have been teetering on the brink of administration for years and it was only the smoke and mirrors of Blue Bill that kept all the plates spinning on the rods for as long as they did.
Just a thought...
I still tend towards the Billy Bullshitter end of the spectrum though and the word on DK, when ever that comes in might clear the muddy waters.
Nowt wrong with a bit of blue tinted double think of the cake and eat it type.
Interesting point , just looked at Sky Sports article about the best transfers this season , viewing the fans comments the overall opinion is Moyes has played a blinder in this window. Not saying i’m in total agreement but it’s nice to read some views that aren’t clouded by passion for EFC. Objective is the word i think !
Ben, we have Jags at centre back too but like Arteta he will be injured for another while yet. I think what Ciaran was saying is that for £2.5m Kranjcar would have been a great piece of business. Surely you can’t argue with that?
Who knows Derek? It is a possibility that it could all turn out to be for the greater good. Honesty isn’t always the best policy.
The admission by Peter Storie this morning that Pompy have been on the brink a few times, due to living beyond their means, may be an indication that they are not the only ones.
The problem for me is the mixed messages and the constant shite spewed out from BK over a number of years that has just served to fuel the fires of discontent.
The admission by Peter Storie this morning that Pompy have been on the brink a few times, due to living beyond their means, may be an indication that they are not the only ones.
The problem for me is the mixed messages and the constant shite spewed out from BK over a number of years that has just served to fuel the fires of discontent.
Derek, it would be Billy Bullshit’s inept management of the club that would have taken us to the brink of administration and his inability to attract investment so it would piss me off more.
The only sympathy I have for the fat twat is that he cops for a lot of flack when he’s not actually in charge. But that’s his fault for getting himself into this situation by inviting his ’mates’ Green and Earle on board.
The only sympathy I have for the fat twat is that he cops for a lot of flack when he’s not actually in charge. But that’s his fault for getting himself into this situation by inviting his ’mates’ Green and Earle on board.
10 years ago we’d just shelled out £5.3m on Kevin Campbell, Mark Pembridge, Abel Xavier and Joe-Max Moore (read journeyman striker, limited welsh try-hard, portuguese utility man and an American striker). This summers signings have all captained their clubs and have quality and experience in good measure yet I can’t help feel frustrated at what feels a small step forward when other teams are taking giant leaps.
Just a quick one.... can anyone explain to me what the story was behind Blue Bill's comments after we signed Johnny?
He said something along the lines 'we aint finished yet' and 'watch this space'.
I've heard rumours it was Defour he was about to snaggle.
Can anyone shed some light on it please...
In response to an earlier entry, I'm really annoyed at Moyes for not learning from last year but IMWT! Cmon Davey, sort it out and get us a top four spot or a trophy. Either one and you'll be an Everton legend for all time! Maybe even Phil Neville!!
Can I ask exactly when BK made the statement to Sky that we are "not done yet"? Was this pre or post the Heitinga signing?
Add Your Comments
In order to post a comment to the MailBag, you need to be logged in as a registered user of the site.
Or Sign up as a ToffeeWeb Member — it's free, takes just a few minutes and will allow you to post your comments on articles and MailBag submissions across the site.
© ToffeeWeb
-sm.jpg)
-sm.jpg)
-sm.jpg)
1 Posted 02/09/2009 at 13:34:37
Report abuse
I’d have been a lot happier if they had bagged Defour and if the rumours are true that they were trying to sign him, then why wait till the last bloody minute? Ditto for Kranjcar, a player we could have got if we moved a lot quicker prior to Spurs’ interest
Amateurish approach to transfer window and pre-season as we’ve unfortunately come to expect.