The Mail Bag
Central Pairing
Comments (53)
Ok, two new signings, both of whom will surely be expecting a starting spot means that finally we will have some genuine selection headaches.
Since the close of the transfer window, I've been trying to pick my first eleven (4-4-2, not 4-5-1, please, please, not 4-5-1) and it's not that easy, as I always seem to leave out a player that I would prefer to be in. Defence isn't too difficult - though I don't know for sure what position Heitinga will be chosen for by Moyes. But let's say it's a straight swap for either Hibbo or Yobbo, problem solved.
Again, I'll presume that Moyes will play Pienaar & Bilyaletdinov out wide. I'd have Saha and Yakubu up front. Only two spots left but a choice of Cahill, Rodwell, Neville or Fellaini (not considering those unavailable. That's an argument for another day). So who will be our first choice central pairing?
To get the debate rolling; I'm tempted to go with Rodwell & Fellaini. We haven't seen the best of either yet but both are good midfield passers (give Fell' a chance) who can also contribute going forward. Cahill is unlucky but could challenge for one of the striking positions. I'd be happy with that line up.
Mark Fitzgerald, Posted 02/09/2009 at 17:39:42
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With the players we have we cannot play 4-4-2. Just will not work.
1. No real wingers who hug the line. Midfield will therefore be narrow.
2. Cahill cannot play in flat 4.
3. Cahill and Fellaini cannot play in same side. Fellaini is going to cost £15M. You cannot have that money sitting on the bench.
4. When was the last time Moyes had 2 strikers on the pitch?
Sorry this thread should not be limited to 4-4-2. We should come up with OUR optimal formations.
Team to face Fulham:
Howard
Neville - Yobo - Distin - Baines
Heitinga - Rodwell
Pienaar - Fellaini - Bily
Saha
Nash, Hibbert, Gosling, Osman, Wallace, Cahill, Jo
1. No real wingers who hug the line. Midfield will therefore be narrow.
2. Cahill cannot play in flat 4.
3. Cahill and Fellaini cannot play in same side. Fellaini is going to cost £15M. You cannot have that money sitting on the bench.
4. When was the last time Moyes had 2 strikers on the pitch?
Sorry this thread should not be limited to 4-4-2. We should come up with OUR optimal formations.
Team to face Fulham:
Howard
Neville - Yobo - Distin - Baines
Heitinga - Rodwell
Pienaar - Fellaini - Bily
Saha
Nash, Hibbert, Gosling, Osman, Wallace, Cahill, Jo
My Team for now would be:
Howard
Heitinga - Yobo - Distin - Baines
Pienaar - Rodwell - Fellaini - Bily
Saha - Cahill
But with Cahill playing a genuine strikers role, Jags in for Yobo when back and Arteta in for Fellaini.
Howard
Heitinga - Yobo - Distin - Baines
Pienaar - Rodwell - Fellaini - Bily
Saha - Cahill
But with Cahill playing a genuine strikers role, Jags in for Yobo when back and Arteta in for Fellaini.
I don’t think Moyes knows their best positions coz he’s been playing Arteta on the wing, Jags in midfield, Lescott at Left-back, Lescott up front, Neville in midfield, Anichebe right mid, Osman in the team.
I would give Moyes 3/4 of a season to realize Heitinga is a rightback and Bily is a left winger. It’s over a year and has he found a position for Felliani? WTF do they do in training? 10 men behind the ball?
I would give Moyes 3/4 of a season to realize Heitinga is a rightback and Bily is a left winger. It’s over a year and has he found a position for Felliani? WTF do they do in training? 10 men behind the ball?
Mark.
Nice try. 4-4-2 with Davey, no chance.
4-5-1 all the way. The Hibbo Osman debate has been noticed by all including DM, so I guess we will see an end to that.
Guess we will see wide players like Pienarr & Bily, but Cahill needs/wants his old position back thereby leaving Nev, Fellaini, and Rodders fighting for the middle places (IMO Rodders will have this position sown up with Arteta very soon).
Now, will DM drop Nev? Maybe but he definately will no do a 4-4-2.
Nice try. 4-4-2 with Davey, no chance.
4-5-1 all the way. The Hibbo Osman debate has been noticed by all including DM, so I guess we will see an end to that.
Guess we will see wide players like Pienarr & Bily, but Cahill needs/wants his old position back thereby leaving Nev, Fellaini, and Rodders fighting for the middle places (IMO Rodders will have this position sown up with Arteta very soon).
Now, will DM drop Nev? Maybe but he definately will no do a 4-4-2.
Have to agree with Mike, no way will you see DM give up on 4-5-1, he’s bad enough dawdling his arse over substitutions. Heitinga will cover Yobo during the AFCON but should cover Hibbert up to then, trouble is during the AFCON who gets RB?
We assume Heitinga is a r/b
We assume Bily is a r/w
Moyes likes versatiity and from what i’ve read both these players have played to a decent standard in 3 different positions, i would expect him to try out different formations with them to find out the best one for the team.
Moyes has also said about giving some players a kick up there arses, so apart from Howard i think we now have cover all over the pitch.
Hibbo= Heitinga, Neville, Gosling
Baines=Distin
4 centre halfs
Osman=Bily, Peanuts,
Peanuts=Bily, Osman
Neville=Heitinga,Rodwell
Arteta=Peanuts,Bily
Cahill=Feli,Bily
Saha=Jo, Yak
So l/b and keeper is where we are weakest for cover
As to the original post , we wont play 2 up front , and i’d like to see Bily and Jonny [ sounds like some kids tv show characters !] play before commenting.
We assume Bily is a r/w
Moyes likes versatiity and from what i’ve read both these players have played to a decent standard in 3 different positions, i would expect him to try out different formations with them to find out the best one for the team.
Moyes has also said about giving some players a kick up there arses, so apart from Howard i think we now have cover all over the pitch.
Hibbo= Heitinga, Neville, Gosling
Baines=Distin
4 centre halfs
Osman=Bily, Peanuts,
Peanuts=Bily, Osman
Neville=Heitinga,Rodwell
Arteta=Peanuts,Bily
Cahill=Feli,Bily
Saha=Jo, Yak
So l/b and keeper is where we are weakest for cover
As to the original post , we wont play 2 up front , and i’d like to see Bily and Jonny [ sounds like some kids tv show characters !] play before commenting.
Mark
Why the craving for 4-4-2? This formation started going out of favour in 1986 when Argentina won the world cup with a 5-3-2. In the 1990 World Cup all the top teams had abandoned 4-4-2 even England used 5-3-2.
5-3-2 has itself been over taken by various types of 4-5-1(possibly because the game is so fast nowadays that the wing backs in the 5-3-2 formation can no longer cover the ground the formation requires). Some of the 4-5-1 combinations are defensive, but not all. Everton seem to play best with one holding midfielder in a 4-1-3-1-1 formation. This is can be a very attacking formation with the centre forward, two wide midfielders and the central attacking midfieder all flooding forward.
What we should avoid is playing two pure holding midfielders in a 4-2-2-1-1. This has say Rodwell and Neville both protecting the back four and means we have problems retaining possession or counter attacking quickly.
Key point is that 4-5-1 is not necessarily defensive and is a superior formation to 4-4-2 which is long gone for good reason.
Gavin
By AFCON Jags should be back to cover/replace Yobo
Why the craving for 4-4-2? This formation started going out of favour in 1986 when Argentina won the world cup with a 5-3-2. In the 1990 World Cup all the top teams had abandoned 4-4-2 even England used 5-3-2.
5-3-2 has itself been over taken by various types of 4-5-1(possibly because the game is so fast nowadays that the wing backs in the 5-3-2 formation can no longer cover the ground the formation requires). Some of the 4-5-1 combinations are defensive, but not all. Everton seem to play best with one holding midfielder in a 4-1-3-1-1 formation. This is can be a very attacking formation with the centre forward, two wide midfielders and the central attacking midfieder all flooding forward.
What we should avoid is playing two pure holding midfielders in a 4-2-2-1-1. This has say Rodwell and Neville both protecting the back four and means we have problems retaining possession or counter attacking quickly.
Key point is that 4-5-1 is not necessarily defensive and is a superior formation to 4-4-2 which is long gone for good reason.
Gavin
By AFCON Jags should be back to cover/replace Yobo
First of all we don’t know how these new signings will blend into the team and more important how they will adjust to the premier league.
Fellaini is stil adjusting but I believe we will see the best of him when Arteta returns.
I would expect both signings to be on the bench against Fulham as DM usually takes about 4 weeks to bring them into his first choice selection, if indeed he knows what is his first choice selection.
One thing for sure he will not drop his captain, Howard ,Baines, Distin and Yobo are automatic That leaves 11-14 when the 3 injured return- players to fit into 6, My god DM will have to make some decisions. This may well be the making of him OR NOT.
This dilema will either make or
Fellaini is stil adjusting but I believe we will see the best of him when Arteta returns.
I would expect both signings to be on the bench against Fulham as DM usually takes about 4 weeks to bring them into his first choice selection, if indeed he knows what is his first choice selection.
One thing for sure he will not drop his captain, Howard ,Baines, Distin and Yobo are automatic That leaves 11-14 when the 3 injured return- players to fit into 6, My god DM will have to make some decisions. This may well be the making of him OR NOT.
This dilema will either make or
Many people are pushing for Phil Neville to be dropped, maybe they’re right, however.
Watching the Wigan game Neville was the ONLY player in the team pushing , talking and trying to organise something that was sometimes a bit of a shambles.
Yes he may not be the most gifted player but at least he doesn’t hide or give less than 100% which is a lot more than some who played on Sunday
Watching the Wigan game Neville was the ONLY player in the team pushing , talking and trying to organise something that was sometimes a bit of a shambles.
Yes he may not be the most gifted player but at least he doesn’t hide or give less than 100% which is a lot more than some who played on Sunday
My opinion is
Howard,
Hetinga, Yobo, Distin, Baines
Bily, Neville, Fellaini, Pienaar
Cahill
Saha
Moyes wont drop his captain, and the only voice on the pitch with Jags out. Also, Rodwell is still not ready to be playing every game. He still needs time to grow, and whilst his performances have been good, they have been a little over exagerated by people on here.
Howard,
Hetinga, Yobo, Distin, Baines
Bily, Neville, Fellaini, Pienaar
Cahill
Saha
Moyes wont drop his captain, and the only voice on the pitch with Jags out. Also, Rodwell is still not ready to be playing every game. He still needs time to grow, and whilst his performances have been good, they have been a little over exagerated by people on here.
I like all your teams....Hibbo’s not in any of them!
Here is my team if fully fit:
Howard
Hetinga, Yobo, Distin, Baines
Billy Rodwell Arteta Pienaar
Fellaini
Yakubu
With Fellaini sitting just behind the striker. This would mean Rodwell can be used as our box to box midfielder, letting Arteta adopt his more suitable role in the middle as play-maker and passer of the game. Also giving him more oppurtunity to go forward and shoot. If we were required to be more defensive, the line up could be changed to place Neville sitting behind Rodwell at the expense of Fellaini, with Arteta being able to be pushed forward slightly.
However my team at the moment, with regards to injuries would be:
Howard
Hetinga, Yobo, Distin, Baines
Billy Rodwell Cahill Fellaini Pienaar
Saha
Again with the option of using Neville instead of Fellaini or Cahill, when needing to adopt a more defensive approach.
Howard
Hetinga, Yobo, Distin, Baines
Billy Rodwell Arteta Pienaar
Fellaini
Yakubu
With Fellaini sitting just behind the striker. This would mean Rodwell can be used as our box to box midfielder, letting Arteta adopt his more suitable role in the middle as play-maker and passer of the game. Also giving him more oppurtunity to go forward and shoot. If we were required to be more defensive, the line up could be changed to place Neville sitting behind Rodwell at the expense of Fellaini, with Arteta being able to be pushed forward slightly.
However my team at the moment, with regards to injuries would be:
Howard
Hetinga, Yobo, Distin, Baines
Billy Rodwell Cahill Fellaini Pienaar
Saha
Again with the option of using Neville instead of Fellaini or Cahill, when needing to adopt a more defensive approach.
Sorry forgot Jags instead of Yobo in fully fit side
Personally i’m quite pleased with the quality DM has brought in, obviously in an ideal world 2 or 3 more would of been nice, but going with what we now have available i’d select:
Howard
Neville Yobo Distan Baines
Heitinga Rodwell
Bily Cahill Pienaar
Saha
I don’t believe dropping Neville would solve anything because he’s by far the best leader in that team, although him and Heitinga could be switched around depending how Johnny settles in. Jags comes in for Yobo before AFCON and Mikel in for Peanuts as he’ll be out there aswel. But for now I’d like to see if Bily could play wide right, so we dont lose, what has been are best attacking option recently of Baines & Pienaar. Also Yak could go back into that side dependant on his & Louis’ form.
Howard
Neville Yobo Distan Baines
Heitinga Rodwell
Bily Cahill Pienaar
Saha
I don’t believe dropping Neville would solve anything because he’s by far the best leader in that team, although him and Heitinga could be switched around depending how Johnny settles in. Jags comes in for Yobo before AFCON and Mikel in for Peanuts as he’ll be out there aswel. But for now I’d like to see if Bily could play wide right, so we dont lose, what has been are best attacking option recently of Baines & Pienaar. Also Yak could go back into that side dependant on his & Louis’ form.
Anyone else worried by Billy’s comments on the OS?
’My position is left-sided but not as a winger...I cut in and shoot’
I thought we might have signed a real winger for a moment there. Oh well.
’My position is left-sided but not as a winger...I cut in and shoot’
I thought we might have signed a real winger for a moment there. Oh well.
To john gorman.... DM has compared Bily to Kevin Sheedy, he was never a left winger, more if a left sided midfielder who liked to cut in. If Bily is as good as Sheedy in this position then I’ll be more than happy. Also Sheedy did play in CM on occasion.
Moyes will play right footed Pienaar on the left and left footed Billy on the right because they arent quick enough to skin an opponent on the outside . He prefers the wide midfielders to tuck in and allow the full backs to get forward ...if only Hettinga was a bit more like Cafu
Are you lot insane?
Moyes’ team against Fulham:
Howard
Baines, Distin, Yobo, Hibbert
Pienaar, Neville, Cahill, Rodwell, Osman
Saha
As if Moyes will drop Hibbert or Osman. Doesn’t anybody watch Everton?!!
Moyes’ team against Fulham:
Howard
Baines, Distin, Yobo, Hibbert
Pienaar, Neville, Cahill, Rodwell, Osman
Saha
As if Moyes will drop Hibbert or Osman. Doesn’t anybody watch Everton?!!
I fear Alan is correct.
Dave Whitwell
Posted 03/09/2009 at 07:36:43
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My Team for now would be:
"Howard
Heitinga - Yobo - Distin - Baines
Pienaar - Rodwell - Fellaini - Bily
Saha - Cahill
But with Cahill playing a genuine strikers role, Jags in for Yobo when back and Arteta in for Fellaini."
I agree with every word on this Dave.
Two extra things, Yakubu in for Saha when fit? Rotation?
This line-up leaves out Phil Neville, something that is unlikely to happen, and to be honest, I can see this line-up playing but with Neville instead of Rodwell.
I can see Bily and Pienaar spending a lot of time swapping sides, I wouldn’t expect them to stick to the one.
Fellaini shouldn’t be used in the forward role that Cahill occupies, they’re really quite different players and Fellaini isn’t suited to it at all, apart from his use as an auxiliary target man.
Posted 03/09/2009 at 07:36:43
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My Team for now would be:
"Howard
Heitinga - Yobo - Distin - Baines
Pienaar - Rodwell - Fellaini - Bily
Saha - Cahill
But with Cahill playing a genuine strikers role, Jags in for Yobo when back and Arteta in for Fellaini."
I agree with every word on this Dave.
Two extra things, Yakubu in for Saha when fit? Rotation?
This line-up leaves out Phil Neville, something that is unlikely to happen, and to be honest, I can see this line-up playing but with Neville instead of Rodwell.
I can see Bily and Pienaar spending a lot of time swapping sides, I wouldn’t expect them to stick to the one.
Fellaini shouldn’t be used in the forward role that Cahill occupies, they’re really quite different players and Fellaini isn’t suited to it at all, apart from his use as an auxiliary target man.
Howard
Heitinga Yobo Distin Baines
Neville
Bily Rodwell Pienaar
Cahill
Saha
I think thats the Lineup Moyes will go with in our next game.
Heitinga Yobo Distin Baines
Neville
Bily Rodwell Pienaar
Cahill
Saha
I think thats the Lineup Moyes will go with in our next game.
Committing to a formation and sticking with it is stupid. Nobody successfully does this so why should we?
Moyes picks a team that he best thinks will win that particular football match. Does he get it wrong - yes - everytime we don't win. But I would sooner have him do it than any of you lot to be quite honest.
Iain, Alan ’welch’ Clarke does not get things correct — end of.
Moyes has won two manager of teh year awards since arriving at everton and has punched above his weight in 4 out of six seasons. Be as negative as you want but this is impressive stuff for a team who are consistently out of the top 8 spenders.
Moyes picks a team that he best thinks will win that particular football match. Does he get it wrong - yes - everytime we don't win. But I would sooner have him do it than any of you lot to be quite honest.
Iain, Alan ’welch’ Clarke does not get things correct — end of.
Moyes has won two manager of teh year awards since arriving at everton and has punched above his weight in 4 out of six seasons. Be as negative as you want but this is impressive stuff for a team who are consistently out of the top 8 spenders.
3 manager of the year awards Suzy
Fellaini is neither a striker nor an attacking midifelder. His success last season on the goal front was welcome & most helpful, but that isn’t where he made his name. He was & is an excellent holding midfielder, breaking things up, being a nuisance and using the ball intelligently when he wins it. That, IMHO, is where Fellaini should play.
Also it is a squad game these days, so things change from match to match. Moyes is far too reluctant to switch things around for the sake of it, which I think is counter productive in the long run, but assuming everyone fit our best team is likely to be...
Howard
Neville - Jagielka - Heitinga - Baines
Arteta - Fellaini - Rodwell
Bily Pienaar
Yakubu
For "easier" games & impact subs we have:
Cahill, Yobo, Jo, Anichebe, Vaughan, Osman
And a not-half-bad selection of young bucks who I’d hope to see playing at some point in the season...
Gosling, Agard, Baxter, Wallace, Arnoux, Mustafi, Jutkiewicz
We seem to be exposed at LB and I’m curious about James Vaughan. Given he played the semi last season, and scoring a very spunky penalty, I’d expected him to be chomping a the bit by now and fully fit. Something not quite right it seems.
As I’ve said on a previous post, our next 9 league games are all winnable as we won them all except 1 last season, and the 1 is Pompey who are dying. If we remain in contention by Xmas then with the re-establishment of Arteta, Yak & Jags we have a sporting chance of top 4.
I’m almost certain this is going to be a funny season with some surprises in store. We could be one of them...
Also it is a squad game these days, so things change from match to match. Moyes is far too reluctant to switch things around for the sake of it, which I think is counter productive in the long run, but assuming everyone fit our best team is likely to be...
Howard
Neville - Jagielka - Heitinga - Baines
Arteta - Fellaini - Rodwell
Bily Pienaar
Yakubu
For "easier" games & impact subs we have:
Cahill, Yobo, Jo, Anichebe, Vaughan, Osman
And a not-half-bad selection of young bucks who I’d hope to see playing at some point in the season...
Gosling, Agard, Baxter, Wallace, Arnoux, Mustafi, Jutkiewicz
We seem to be exposed at LB and I’m curious about James Vaughan. Given he played the semi last season, and scoring a very spunky penalty, I’d expected him to be chomping a the bit by now and fully fit. Something not quite right it seems.
As I’ve said on a previous post, our next 9 league games are all winnable as we won them all except 1 last season, and the 1 is Pompey who are dying. If we remain in contention by Xmas then with the re-establishment of Arteta, Yak & Jags we have a sporting chance of top 4.
I’m almost certain this is going to be a funny season with some surprises in store. We could be one of them...
Are you lot insane?
Moyes’s team against Fulham:
Howard
Baines, Distin, Yobo, Hibbert
Pienaar, Neville, Cahill, Rodwell, Osman
Saha
As if Moyes will drop Hibbert or Osman. Doesn’t anybody watch Everton?!!
Yes and you have Osman and Hibbert on the left and Peanuts and Baines on the right... Do YOU!!!!!
Moyes’s team against Fulham:
Howard
Baines, Distin, Yobo, Hibbert
Pienaar, Neville, Cahill, Rodwell, Osman
Saha
As if Moyes will drop Hibbert or Osman. Doesn’t anybody watch Everton?!!
Yes and you have Osman and Hibbert on the left and Peanuts and Baines on the right... Do YOU!!!!!
Sorry Tony, wrong way round but you get my point? It will take an injury to Osman or Hibbert before Moyes puts the new guys in.
Take Rodwell for instance. He had a cracking game against Sigma. He was only put in the team because Moyes had to move Neville to centre half. If Lescott had still been with us, Rodwell would have been on the bench and the outcome of that game may have been a lot different. It was the same with moving Arteta into the middle last year. It was a forced move rather than a stroke of genius by Moyes.
I’m not questioning Moyes’s talent as a manager but he won’t change it until he has to. He doesn’t like taking risks.
Take Rodwell for instance. He had a cracking game against Sigma. He was only put in the team because Moyes had to move Neville to centre half. If Lescott had still been with us, Rodwell would have been on the bench and the outcome of that game may have been a lot different. It was the same with moving Arteta into the middle last year. It was a forced move rather than a stroke of genius by Moyes.
I’m not questioning Moyes’s talent as a manager but he won’t change it until he has to. He doesn’t like taking risks.
I dont think he can afford to take this many risks, I would like to think that Hettinga and Billy will be 1st team members in the near future. However I think putting all three including Distin straight in would be to much of a gamble.
This would be the case even if he left Peanut on the left and placed Billy on the right where I can find no recod of him playing.
Players need time to adjust to each other and in the case of 2 of the signings to a new league. We have no time as we are already up and running (the lateness of the signings is another argument).
To make 3 or 4 changes to the team all at once would effect the balance to much as such I would guess that Hetinga and Billy will be introduced over a number of games..
Again hopefully they will oust Hibbert and Osman but I think it will be later rather than sooner.
This would be the case even if he left Peanut on the left and placed Billy on the right where I can find no recod of him playing.
Players need time to adjust to each other and in the case of 2 of the signings to a new league. We have no time as we are already up and running (the lateness of the signings is another argument).
To make 3 or 4 changes to the team all at once would effect the balance to much as such I would guess that Hetinga and Billy will be introduced over a number of games..
Again hopefully they will oust Hibbert and Osman but I think it will be later rather than sooner.
The first XI Moyes will
play this season when all players are fit and new signings settle is:
Howard
Heitinga Jagielka Distin Baines
Bily Neville Arteta Pienaar
Cahill
Saha
Subs: Nash, Hibbert, Osman, Felli, Rodwell, Yak, Yobo
play this season when all players are fit and new signings settle is:
Howard
Heitinga Jagielka Distin Baines
Bily Neville Arteta Pienaar
Cahill
Saha
Subs: Nash, Hibbert, Osman, Felli, Rodwell, Yak, Yobo
Any team as long as it's not got Osman, Hibbert, Neville in it or on the bench.
As out next game is away and after an international break, I can't see anyway Bily will start. Heitinga possibly but knowing Moyes’s cautious approach I expect Heitinga to be on the bench and the team that beat Wigan with maybe Fellaini in for Cahill or Rodwell.
Well, after reading every single post above my head is spinning!
Of course the one making the decisions is Moyes himself. Dropping Hibbert and/or Osman and/or Neville will be a major decision for DM .... for various reasons he has stuck by all three. We probably all agree that Hibbert is the weaker link, then Osman and then Neville. Neville has the advantage of leadership/captains role though ... I can’t see him being dropped.
The other thing (which I don’t think anybody specifically mentioned above) is the Europa. Heitinga can’t play in that. So whatever formation and "starting 11" DM would like to use it has to cater for ALL THE GAMES WE’LL BE PLAYING ... even if he picks a perfect 11 with no more injuries he’ll still have to rotate and adjust.
One advantage I think Moyes has is that our next run of games is "relatively" easy and I do seriously expect a lot of points but equally this will give DM time to bed in his new players, maybe play around a little with the formation etc. The next big game is Benfica away (winning this would be sweet!) and then The Villa (boooo!) on Oct 31st at home. A MUST WIN given the circumstances (then again, given the circumstances, every game is a MUST WIN).
Of course the one making the decisions is Moyes himself. Dropping Hibbert and/or Osman and/or Neville will be a major decision for DM .... for various reasons he has stuck by all three. We probably all agree that Hibbert is the weaker link, then Osman and then Neville. Neville has the advantage of leadership/captains role though ... I can’t see him being dropped.
The other thing (which I don’t think anybody specifically mentioned above) is the Europa. Heitinga can’t play in that. So whatever formation and "starting 11" DM would like to use it has to cater for ALL THE GAMES WE’LL BE PLAYING ... even if he picks a perfect 11 with no more injuries he’ll still have to rotate and adjust.
One advantage I think Moyes has is that our next run of games is "relatively" easy and I do seriously expect a lot of points but equally this will give DM time to bed in his new players, maybe play around a little with the formation etc. The next big game is Benfica away (winning this would be sweet!) and then The Villa (boooo!) on Oct 31st at home. A MUST WIN given the circumstances (then again, given the circumstances, every game is a MUST WIN).
Chris Perry
Unless al three are injured or have left the club this will never and to be honest I would stick with Neville,..
Unless al three are injured or have left the club this will never and to be honest I would stick with Neville,..
Alan Clarke,
You are wrong again.
Suzy.
PS - wheres my cash welch?
You are wrong again.
Suzy.
PS - wheres my cash welch?
Alan Clarke is spot on; Hibbert WILL play.
I think Moyes has been trying to fill the Carsley role for a while now, and personally I think Jags was brought in for this role...
However, he’s been a revelation at centre half and therefore sticks there.
I therefore think Moyes has plans to try-out Heitinga in the holding role. In doing so, he could move Neville to right back (his best position IMO) and drop Hibbert. Much to the delight of all of us.
With regards to European games, as Heitinga is cup tied, he could revert back to Neville in mid field, and thus no reason to drop Captain Marvel!!
I’m not saying I completely agree with those moves, but I think they make sense...
Just leaves one thing - according to what I’ve said, Hibbert would probably be reinstated for Eurpoean games - OH NO!!
However, he’s been a revelation at centre half and therefore sticks there.
I therefore think Moyes has plans to try-out Heitinga in the holding role. In doing so, he could move Neville to right back (his best position IMO) and drop Hibbert. Much to the delight of all of us.
With regards to European games, as Heitinga is cup tied, he could revert back to Neville in mid field, and thus no reason to drop Captain Marvel!!
I’m not saying I completely agree with those moves, but I think they make sense...
Just leaves one thing - according to what I’ve said, Hibbert would probably be reinstated for Eurpoean games - OH NO!!
...similar to Greg Nixon and Kirk McArdle’s formations...
Yakubu-Saha strikeforce anyone?
Jason, potentially phenomenal strikeforce... I would love nothng more. But can you see it happening under Moyes?
MOYES WILL NEVER PLAY 4-4-2 so please stop suggesting it! Everyone should know it will be 4-5-1!
Three Manager of the Year awards mean nothing to me. It's like watching paint dry at Everton these days. Take Burnley for example: one up front... boring from the get-go!
Why is everyone so obsessed with 442 anyway? Just because thats how we all played for the school team, or Sunday league, doesn;’t mean its the best formation.
Look at the top teams, Utd, Chelsea, The RS etc, they all play 451 - get a grip gents (and lady), its horses for courses, and you change the lineup depending on the opposition.
I prefer 451 to 442 these days as it gives you more options.
Look at the top teams, Utd, Chelsea, The RS etc, they all play 451 - get a grip gents (and lady), its horses for courses, and you change the lineup depending on the opposition.
I prefer 451 to 442 these days as it gives you more options.
James Marshall. I think the calling for 4-4-2 is more a reflection of the desire for 2 quality strikers on the field developing a lethal partnership (Saha + Yak/Jo) than the static formation descriptions we’re used to.
I personally find describing formations in terms of 3 rigid lines very old-fashioned anyway, and 4-5-1 can be interpreted in so many ways. I’m no expert though and have learnt a lot from David Ellis’ recent posts.
I personally find describing formations in terms of 3 rigid lines very old-fashioned anyway, and 4-5-1 can be interpreted in so many ways. I’m no expert though and have learnt a lot from David Ellis’ recent posts.
Exactly my point, Ben, having more options and being less rigid is modern football all over - just go look at the way Chelsea are playing this season.
Chelsea are going to be playing a lot differently over the next 2 seasons James Marshall
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/c/chelsea/8236187.stm
Shame!
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/c/chelsea/8236187.stm
Shame!
Yeah, AP were reporting that earlier - they’ll appeal though and expect it to be overturned, at least in part.
I think Moyes will stick to 4-5-1 as it is a flexible formation than quite easily turns into a 4-3-3 when we are attacking. Ofcoarse, this formation needs very fit wingers with good stamina. Pienaar ticks all the boxes, and Billy will need to do the same. If Billy can hit the ground running as far as work-rate is concerned, then we will be able to pull off this formation. Having said that, I think the Russian will take more time to adapt than Heitinga. I see Heitinga starting against Fulham at right-back with captain Nev in the middle. Eventually, I see them swapping positions with Nev at right-back and the Dutchman in midfield.
Nah, Heitinga’s preferred position is centre half so why play him at right back when Neville can play there? That makes no sense to me - Heitinga is a central defender, first and foremost - if he plays anywhere other than there until at least Jags is back, I’ll be astounded.
Sorry James but you are wrong there. Have a look at this:
http://www.heitingaofficial.com/en/latest_news.asp?AjrDcmntId=6873
He has been playing primarily as a right back for Atletico and Holland. I know i’d certainly prefer to have Yobo playing as centre half rather than putting Heitinga there and leaving Hibbert/Neville at RB.
http://www.heitingaofficial.com/en/latest_news.asp?AjrDcmntId=6873
He has been playing primarily as a right back for Atletico and Holland. I know i’d certainly prefer to have Yobo playing as centre half rather than putting Heitinga there and leaving Hibbert/Neville at RB.
Happy to be proven wrong, Vijay, who knows though - he could just be saying that so as to not rock the boat. I was lead to believe throughout the last few weeks that he was generally a centre half. Perhaps back in June (when he said that) he was just happy to be in the team!
Further reading from his website, Vijay:
Having started life as a right-back, and occasionally pushing up into a defensive midfield role, John has latterly developed as an attack-minded central defender, who scores more than his share of goals.
Having started life as a right-back, and occasionally pushing up into a defensive midfield role, John has latterly developed as an attack-minded central defender, who scores more than his share of goals.
Looking at all this, it is very pleasing to see how Moyes has slowly but surely improved his Squad since he first arrived.
Whether it be Quality, average age, value or potential, all criteria show a massive upswing.
This was his first Team in March 2002
Gerrard: Hibbert, Stubbs, Weir, Unsworth; Gravesen, Carsley, Alexandersson, Watson; Ferguson, Radzinski
We had back up from Chadwick, Gemmill, Campbell, Simonsen, Ginola, Clarke, etc
Jesus, it’s bloody frightening when you look back. No wonder we were heading for relegation!
For the first time in many years I see a squad that is equipped to challenge when all are fit. It’s a shame we lost Lescott and we are still a bit light in defence, and Banega would have made it even better, but the fact we are even having this debate tells you a lot! And he’s done it on £4m a year net spend, so BK can’t take too much credit can he?
Whether it be Quality, average age, value or potential, all criteria show a massive upswing.
This was his first Team in March 2002
Gerrard: Hibbert, Stubbs, Weir, Unsworth; Gravesen, Carsley, Alexandersson, Watson; Ferguson, Radzinski
We had back up from Chadwick, Gemmill, Campbell, Simonsen, Ginola, Clarke, etc
Jesus, it’s bloody frightening when you look back. No wonder we were heading for relegation!
For the first time in many years I see a squad that is equipped to challenge when all are fit. It’s a shame we lost Lescott and we are still a bit light in defence, and Banega would have made it even better, but the fact we are even having this debate tells you a lot! And he’s done it on £4m a year net spend, so BK can’t take too much credit can he?
Depends who the opposition is, whether you're playing at home or away, who is in form, where and when the next game is, etc etc etc.
I don’t think in this day and age any Premier League football club has an out-and-out best 11.
I don’t think in this day and age any Premier League football club has an out-and-out best 11.
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1 Posted 03/09/2009 at 06:43:41
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Memo to DM;
1) Pick a formation to best suit the best 11, don’t try to shoehorn them into some pie in the sky cunning plan of a formation.
2) Admit to your self (and us ffs) that ’ this 11’ in ’ that formation’ is our best and stick with it and, if the effort and application, which I / we sort of take for granted is there then, swings and roundabouts etc etc the points will accrue or not on any given day.