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Why can't they be honest with us?
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Rumours flying around that Arteta has suffered a knock on his knee and it is feared that he will be out until March!!!! Maybe idle gossip but maybe that failed bid for Krancjar will come back to haunt Moyes?
Jamie Carroll, Posted 10/09/2009 at 17:42:01
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How did he get a knock on his knee?
I would imagine that he is only running and excercising, nowhere near any players in a competative nature and can you imagine any player throwing a challenge into him when he is still in his rehabilitation stage?
I would imagine that he is only running and excercising, nowhere near any players in a competative nature and can you imagine any player throwing a challenge into him when he is still in his rehabilitation stage?
Forgot to add, I am hoping that it is all bollocks
The OS lists Vaughan in the full squad for Sunday. He won’t, of course, be on the bench and this could be a way of covering up the possibility that he can’t even walk, let alone play. Personally, I doubt it.
Every organisation that has a public image tries to make it as positive as they can. I think that EFC do very well on balance compared to, for example, Sky4 clubs. They are positively saintly compared to the likes of the pharmaceutical giants, food manufacturers, governments and other systematic liars.
Every organisation that has a public image tries to make it as positive as they can. I think that EFC do very well on balance compared to, for example, Sky4 clubs. They are positively saintly compared to the likes of the pharmaceutical giants, food manufacturers, governments and other systematic liars.
Just shown on the OS that Arteta had minor op, remove stiches, weeks rather than months...
I find it amazing that some fans demand to know everything that's going on at the club.
We are supporters of the club not internal auditors. If Vaughan and Arteta are injured then its the clubs business. What right do the fans have to know everything about the condition of the players? The fitness of the players is the business of David Moyes and his staff. The fans have no divine right to know everything.
The finances of the club is the business of the directors. The fitness of the players is the business of David Moyes. Supporting 11 players in blue shirts every week is the business of the fans.
My job is easy. Support the players in the blue shirts. It's that simple. All the rest is details which don't really interest me.
We are supporters of the club not internal auditors. If Vaughan and Arteta are injured then its the clubs business. What right do the fans have to know everything about the condition of the players? The fitness of the players is the business of David Moyes and his staff. The fans have no divine right to know everything.
The finances of the club is the business of the directors. The fitness of the players is the business of David Moyes. Supporting 11 players in blue shirts every week is the business of the fans.
My job is easy. Support the players in the blue shirts. It's that simple. All the rest is details which don't really interest me.
"that failed bid for Krancjar will come back to haunt Moyes"
There was never any bid for Krancjar!
So ... no.
There was never any bid for Krancjar!
So ... no.
ps
I’m with Dick Anderson
I’m with Dick Anderson
Amen - Dick Anderson
I can be as pessimistic as the best of them but Mike Kenrick can you please put a sock in it! Let's just wait and see when Arteta is back rather than jumping on the worst-case scenario.
Well, Dick Anderson, I have to disagree with you. I find it almost incomprehensible that some fans aren’t interested in what’s going on at the club. But what’s more bizarre to me is that those fans will use an internet website like this, whose stock in trade is focussed entirely on what is happening at the club.
As a fan, I’m curious and interested. As a fan, I worked to establish a website that delves as far as we can into all those details about the club that don’t interest you.
So I’m tempted to ask... nah, never mind... Happy reading!
As a fan, I’m curious and interested. As a fan, I worked to establish a website that delves as far as we can into all those details about the club that don’t interest you.
So I’m tempted to ask... nah, never mind... Happy reading!
Gareth, my point is why is something like this kept secret for a week... and only released when the critical mass of Chinese Whispers exceeds a certain level? It just doesn’t make any sense to me.
The club acknowledges the interest that most fans have in the health and fitness of the players — after all, they make up the team, and it’s the team that plays the football...
The club acknowledges the interest that most fans have in the health and fitness of the players — after all, they make up the team, and it’s the team that plays the football...
Dick Anderson, I totally disagree. Football is often likened to the entertainment business and surely the paying customer is entitled to know who they may see performing.
Dick, I wonder what happens when we play in our away kit and the other team's in blue? As you say you have no interest in anything except supporting the team in blue? Who you probably wouldn’t recognise as that isn’t in your supporter's remit.
Also, in your view, the finances of the club are the business of the board. Fair enough, I can understand that... but if the welfare of the players is no business of the supporters then just what the fuck is? Pay your money and keep quiet.
Following the confirmation this morning from Moyes that Arteta is out for another 6 weeks minimum,I feel a small slice of humble pie should plonked on my table! On the Official site there is no mention of a 6-week lay off, just a delay of ’weeks rather than -months’. Moyes’s comments totally blow this out of the water.
It does illustrate yet again the misleading, patronising way the Club treats the fans. Whether it is the Official site actually praising the Chairman for his tireless efforts to sign Distin, Heitinga etc (ignoring the fact that he said nothing all summer when we weren’t signing anyone) or the physio of all people putting a gloss on the Arteta injury, leaving it to the manager to tell us the truth.
It all leaves the impression that the people running our club above Moyes cannot be believed or trusted.
I would like to respond to Dick Anderson when he stated:
We are supporters of the club not internal auditors. If Vaughan and Arteta are injured then its the clubs business. What right do the fans have to know everything about the condition of the players? The fitness of the players is the business of David Moyes and his staff. The fans have no divine right to know everything.
Well I’m sorry but the fans who are the Lifeblood of any football club, deserve to know what is happening at the club with regards to footballing matters. That is just the fans, the shareholders have a right to know everything about the club and I mean everything, after all it is not just an emotional investment but a financial one as well and in that regard anything that can long term damage that investment is just not cricket in my book.
We are supporters of the club not internal auditors. If Vaughan and Arteta are injured then its the clubs business. What right do the fans have to know everything about the condition of the players? The fitness of the players is the business of David Moyes and his staff. The fans have no divine right to know everything.
Well I’m sorry but the fans who are the Lifeblood of any football club, deserve to know what is happening at the club with regards to footballing matters. That is just the fans, the shareholders have a right to know everything about the club and I mean everything, after all it is not just an emotional investment but a financial one as well and in that regard anything that can long term damage that investment is just not cricket in my book.
I believe the fans have the right to an opinion. Sure we can all talk about players we like and don’t. And yes we have the right to complain about results.
But I dont feel we have the right to know every detail about the fitness of the players.
Why should the club be forced to reveal details about the players fitness?
Maybe Moyes and Arteta would feel more comfitable keeping things quiet.
We have no right to demand detaiils from the club.
But I dont feel we have the right to know every detail about the fitness of the players.
Why should the club be forced to reveal details about the players fitness?
Maybe Moyes and Arteta would feel more comfitable keeping things quiet.
We have no right to demand detaiils from the club.
Hey Gareth, no humble pie necessary. Moyes’ estimate is good news because it fits Mark Browne’s post about the minor procedure to remove stitches. Typically an athlete can resume full training 2-3 weeks after that. Figure at least a few weeks more to get to fitness, a couple of reserve appearances, and there’s your 6-8 weeks. So it certainly seems likely we’ll be seeing Mikel in November, rather than March.
As to the overall debate, whether or not we have the "right" to know, or are "entitled" to know, is irrelevant. We’re not going to know until they feel like telling us. No sports organization in the world puts out those kinds of details. That’s never going to change.
As to the overall debate, whether or not we have the "right" to know, or are "entitled" to know, is irrelevant. We’re not going to know until they feel like telling us. No sports organization in the world puts out those kinds of details. That’s never going to change.
As Mike Gaynes has said quite rightly , "whether or not we have the "right" to know, or are "entitled" to know, is irrelevant. We’re not going to know until they feel like telling us."
I think the issue here is why all we seem to get from the club (when we do get any information!) are lies and misinformation. It just shows a distinct lack of respect for the fans.
As has been mentioned before in this thread, the fans are the lifeblood of any sporting club. Granted these days sporting clubs are run more like businesses, but if you don’t treat your customers right you will lose them.
I think the issue here is why all we seem to get from the club (when we do get any information!) are lies and misinformation. It just shows a distinct lack of respect for the fans.
As has been mentioned before in this thread, the fans are the lifeblood of any sporting club. Granted these days sporting clubs are run more like businesses, but if you don’t treat your customers right you will lose them.
I just don’t think it’s asking a lot of the club to keep the fans updated on a player's finess. Arteta is arguably our best player and everyone who supports Everton will be desperate to see him back in a blue shirt. If the club were transparent about these things then it would help prevent rumours going around like "he’s out until March" etc.
Excellent debate!
I find it difficult to surmise, that the people who run Everton Football Club are as cynical, calculating and as nasty as a lot of the conjecture on here has suggested.
But most of my friends tell me I’m naïve.
I find it difficult to surmise, that the people who run Everton Football Club are as cynical, calculating and as nasty as a lot of the conjecture on here has suggested.
But most of my friends tell me I’m naïve.
Mike Gaynes: "No sports organization in the world puts out those kinds of details. That’s never going to change."
I have to disagree. Take today’s example, where Neville is stretchered off. Are they going to stay mum and say nowt about his injury? Of course they aren’t!!! Before the game was over, everybody and their mother knew he had a big gash below the knee. As it should be.
What on god’s green earth is the point of hiding such "details"? If Arteta doesn’t appear until November, maybe someone would figure out that perhaps he might have been expected to recover sooner... and didn’t. Ergo, he suffered a setback... why is that so shameful for the club to admit?
I have been slammed for likening this to the news suppression and revisionism endemic under communist regimes but that is the closest analogy I can draw. Yes, they want to control the news... but in this case, why? What advantage is gained by suppressing news that Arteta will need another 6-8 weeks?
It’s not a "right to now" thing — I don’t give two hoots about that; I’m just curious about the thinking that underlies a decision to suppress such news for a week... and then finally to come clean once the rumour mill has ground the story into mincemeat.
It just makes no sense whatsoever to me... other than to convey the message that, "Hey, you’re all fans, we know that, and you’re interested in the fitness of the players... heck, we even have a special webpage on the Official site just to keep track of injuries... but in this case, fuck you — we’re not telling you nuffink."
Just a simple question: why not?
I have to disagree. Take today’s example, where Neville is stretchered off. Are they going to stay mum and say nowt about his injury? Of course they aren’t!!! Before the game was over, everybody and their mother knew he had a big gash below the knee. As it should be.
What on god’s green earth is the point of hiding such "details"? If Arteta doesn’t appear until November, maybe someone would figure out that perhaps he might have been expected to recover sooner... and didn’t. Ergo, he suffered a setback... why is that so shameful for the club to admit?
I have been slammed for likening this to the news suppression and revisionism endemic under communist regimes but that is the closest analogy I can draw. Yes, they want to control the news... but in this case, why? What advantage is gained by suppressing news that Arteta will need another 6-8 weeks?
It’s not a "right to now" thing — I don’t give two hoots about that; I’m just curious about the thinking that underlies a decision to suppress such news for a week... and then finally to come clean once the rumour mill has ground the story into mincemeat.
It just makes no sense whatsoever to me... other than to convey the message that, "Hey, you’re all fans, we know that, and you’re interested in the fitness of the players... heck, we even have a special webpage on the Official site just to keep track of injuries... but in this case, fuck you — we’re not telling you nuffink."
Just a simple question: why not?
Mike Gaynes: "No sports organization in the world puts out those kinds of details. That’s never going to change."
Actually, Mike, teams in the NFL are required to publish their injury list every week. Some comply better than others.
I agree with Michael Kenrick. I think there’s a certain lack of respect for the fans. I’ve been an Everton supporter since the days of Alan Ball and couldn’t imagine supporting another team and to a certain extent management knows the fan base is made up of people like me and tend to disregard our opinions unless we are very vocal.
Actually, Mike, teams in the NFL are required to publish their injury list every week. Some comply better than others.
I agree with Michael Kenrick. I think there’s a certain lack of respect for the fans. I’ve been an Everton supporter since the days of Alan Ball and couldn’t imagine supporting another team and to a certain extent management knows the fan base is made up of people like me and tend to disregard our opinions unless we are very vocal.
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1 Posted 11/09/2009 at 16:47:10
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Hopefully it’s complete bullshit... But let’s just for a moment work from the premise that it’s not.
Just like the other week when they were in denial over Vaughan...
Okay, so it’s bad news. I just don’t understand the mentality that says it has to be a big secret. Can someone explain that to me?
Is it this positive / negative thing again? Everything in the world should be rosy and if it’s bad news, it must be suppressed???
Again, I sincerely hope it is utter lies and that the usual sources are indulging in the for once appropriately named Chinese Whispers.