The Mail Bag
Defensive duties
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So, with Neville injured, Hibbert suspended and Heitinga ineligible, just who is going to be a makeshift right-back for Thursday's crucial game?
I can only think that rodwell will be asked to fill in, which will have a drastic shape-changing effect on midfield with Pip out also. No defensive midfielders?
Maybe an attacking line-up for once...
Jeremy Benson, Posted 16/09/2009 at 04:49:47
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I would presume Dan Gosling will be asked to fill in at right back, then Rodwell can stay in the middle. With any luck we may also see more than 15 seconds of Bilyaletdinov, COYB
Yup, Gosling but to be honest I had forgotten about him too.
I was discussing it with a fellow Blue in work and thought that Rodwell would play centre half and Yobo move out to the right, where he has played for Nigeria......albeit poorly......then suddenly we remembered Gosling was actually bough as a right back. He has the same lack of pace as Hibbert and the first touch of Jo so we should be alright............!!!
I was discussing it with a fellow Blue in work and thought that Rodwell would play centre half and Yobo move out to the right, where he has played for Nigeria......albeit poorly......then suddenly we remembered Gosling was actually bough as a right back. He has the same lack of pace as Hibbert and the first touch of Jo so we should be alright............!!!
Gosling would seem to be the natural choice, but when does he go off on U20 World Cup duty? The tournament starts next week. Otherwise Yobo? With Rodwell partnering Distin defence, Osman and Fellaini in the middle with Pienaar and Bily out wide. Might even create a few chances with that midfield
Gosling seeing as he played there when hibbo got sent off before.
Other wise what about the Irish lad
Other wise what about the Irish lad
Ciaran, don’t want to spoil our recent harmony, but I think you more than a bit over the top and (dare I say it?) behind the times with all this ’utility player’ thing.
First admission: given Moyes’s squad size, he has more of a preference for flexible players than most.
But: it’s not exactly unusual in this day and age for managers to expect and use players in a variety of positions. Ferguson with Rooney, Benitez with Kuyt, Chelsea with Essien, Wenger with Eboue. Just a few examples.
Maybe the more frightening point is that most of our players just aren’t good enough.
First admission: given Moyes’s squad size, he has more of a preference for flexible players than most.
But: it’s not exactly unusual in this day and age for managers to expect and use players in a variety of positions. Ferguson with Rooney, Benitez with Kuyt, Chelsea with Essien, Wenger with Eboue. Just a few examples.
Maybe the more frightening point is that most of our players just aren’t good enough.
Neil, Can you see the common denominator with every single one of those players you mentioned?
See your last line.
See your last line.
Jeremy
you said it in your last line.
We shouldnt be talking about defensive duties we should be talking about an attach minded MF with 2 forwards and looking for all the action to be in their half especially with 2 extra "Linesmen".
If I was being bold I would play a back 3 of Yobo Distin and Rodwell with Gosling and Baines as wing backs and Felliaini and Peanuts central withBilly,Cahill and Jo up front.
But there again I’m not the manager.
you said it in your last line.
We shouldnt be talking about defensive duties we should be talking about an attach minded MF with 2 forwards and looking for all the action to be in their half especially with 2 extra "Linesmen".
If I was being bold I would play a back 3 of Yobo Distin and Rodwell with Gosling and Baines as wing backs and Felliaini and Peanuts central withBilly,Cahill and Jo up front.
But there again I’m not the manager.
Could try something really unexpected and play a right back in the right back position.....take a bow Seamus Coleman.
We seemed to do our usual drawn out exercise in signing the lad, with competition from Celtic, seemingly, so why not do something radical like play him ?
We seemed to do our usual drawn out exercise in signing the lad, with competition from Celtic, seemingly, so why not do something radical like play him ?
Another bonus is that if Coleman is selected and dares to make any kind of mistake there will be the opportunity for so many people to crucify him on these pages.
Ciaran, yes. I’m just making the point that there is nothing particularly weird in this day and age in having pretty flexible players who are deployed in multiple roles.
Our problem is not that Moyes is pursuing some strange and silly utility player fetish - but that he doesn’t have the quality players. Either to have a sufficiently deep squad of ’specialists’ or enough top quality flexible players.
And, yes, I am going to say that the root problem is that we can’t afford the kinds of players I mentioned...
Our problem is not that Moyes is pursuing some strange and silly utility player fetish - but that he doesn’t have the quality players. Either to have a sufficiently deep squad of ’specialists’ or enough top quality flexible players.
And, yes, I am going to say that the root problem is that we can’t afford the kinds of players I mentioned...
Coleman is still injured. Gosling will play right back and the formation won’t change.
Fellaini should come in for Neville and it would be good to see Saha(if fit) in for Jo and Bily in for Ossie, but I won’t hold my breathe.
Fellaini should come in for Neville and it would be good to see Saha(if fit) in for Jo and Bily in for Ossie, but I won’t hold my breathe.
’Our problem is not that Moyes is pursuing some strange and silly utility player fetish’
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Sorry, I have to disagree...
If you count the amount of players played out their best position..or the avoidance of filling the obvious positions with specifically postional players in the transfer window - then you can only conclude that Moyes does not like (or has other priorities to) buying players for specific positions...
Baines was the last player we bought (apart from forwards) that is actually used in a position he was actually schooled in...that was two seasons ago.
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Sorry, I have to disagree...
If you count the amount of players played out their best position..or the avoidance of filling the obvious positions with specifically postional players in the transfer window - then you can only conclude that Moyes does not like (or has other priorities to) buying players for specific positions...
Baines was the last player we bought (apart from forwards) that is actually used in a position he was actually schooled in...that was two seasons ago.
Aye but that only happened becasue Lescott was playing LB and got injured !
Only then did Bainsy get his chance because Lescott had aslo been forced to play out of position !
Its the same old story.
Only then did Bainsy get his chance because Lescott had aslo been forced to play out of position !
Its the same old story.
Ciaran, Distine was the last player actually
I do take you’re point tho and agree. I also think heitinga will be used in midfield and not full back where he should play
Russ Lescott didnt get injured. I think he only missed 1 game through injury in his entire everton carear.
The reason baines didnt play was because Lescott was playing so well in that position, its simple and obvious to me, i dont know why it isnt to others.
Ciaran, whats wrong with buying utility players when you have a small squad, why should this be such a bad thing? All od our utility players seem to have done quite well as a matter of fact.
The reason baines didnt play was because Lescott was playing so well in that position, its simple and obvious to me, i dont know why it isnt to others.
Ciaran, whats wrong with buying utility players when you have a small squad, why should this be such a bad thing? All od our utility players seem to have done quite well as a matter of fact.
Ian you may be right (old age memory and all that) but the point is that if Lescott hadn’t been drafted back into the middle Bainsy wouldn’t have got his chance. It wasn’t planned ! It took a long time for him to get in and if I remember rightly was getting pissed off waiting, who wouldn’t.
If I also remember right, Lescott was also getting pissed off playing LB !!
"Ciaran, whats wrong with buying utility players when you have a small squad, why should this be such a bad thing? All od our utility players seem to have done quite well as a matter of fact. "
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It’s far from a matter of fact - it’s simply your opinion.
Utility players by their very nature usually bring no outstanding or specific talent to the table..that’s why they are sacrificed and moved about the pitch...
Not only does it negate stability...it also creates a lack of quality in positions which really require specific skills - not base skills.
There’s nothing wrong with having a few of these players in the squad - but when your first eleven is littered with them..then you have problems.
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It’s far from a matter of fact - it’s simply your opinion.
Utility players by their very nature usually bring no outstanding or specific talent to the table..that’s why they are sacrificed and moved about the pitch...
Not only does it negate stability...it also creates a lack of quality in positions which really require specific skills - not base skills.
There’s nothing wrong with having a few of these players in the squad - but when your first eleven is littered with them..then you have problems.
Utility players? An idea that must go back to flat caps, football rattles and the WM formation. Didn’t England only play Tom Finney or Stanley Matthews because you could only have one right winger? Maybe it was all either of them could do - somehow I doubt it. More likely nobody thought they could do anything else.
If we zoom forward to the 70’s, Cruyff and co. played what they called total football, based on the outlandish notion that every player had basic skills - control, passing, moving - things like that. The closest we have come to this recently was our reasonably successful 4-6-0 period, which turned out to be as attacking a formation as a 4-4-2.
By the way, Gosling thinks he will be RB on Thursday.
If we zoom forward to the 70’s, Cruyff and co. played what they called total football, based on the outlandish notion that every player had basic skills - control, passing, moving - things like that. The closest we have come to this recently was our reasonably successful 4-6-0 period, which turned out to be as attacking a formation as a 4-4-2.
By the way, Gosling thinks he will be RB on Thursday.
Russ when Ronaldo was at Utd playing up front even though he is a winger, i bet the other forwards were pissed off, but what does it matter if the team is getting the results? Of course baines is not going to be happy sitting on the bench but when Lescott was playing LB and getting player of the season awards and getting into the England squad in that position then baines just has to be patient and wait his time to take his chance which he has done, but when he wasnt in the team it was because he didnt deserve to be in the team, he hadnt earned his place.
Ciaran yes you are right it is only my opinion that our utility players such as Phill N and Phill J, Cahill and Arteta have done quite well, but it is also only your opinion when you say ’’when your first eleven is littered with them..then you have problems’’ after all hibbert is not a utility player but im sure you would rather he wasnt in the team, Yobo isnt a utilty player but i wouldnt say he hasnt caused any problems. Osmen and Pienner i must say i am confused, are they utility players or are they actually in their prefered positions? Just because piennar plays centrally for South Africa doesnt mean LM is not his prefered position, and i dont think it matters where Osmen plays because he is always crap where ever he is on the pitch.
In my opinion the very best players can play in many positions and do a good job, Rooney ,Ronaldo, Gerrard all spring to mind.
Ciaran yes you are right it is only my opinion that our utility players such as Phill N and Phill J, Cahill and Arteta have done quite well, but it is also only your opinion when you say ’’when your first eleven is littered with them..then you have problems’’ after all hibbert is not a utility player but im sure you would rather he wasnt in the team, Yobo isnt a utilty player but i wouldnt say he hasnt caused any problems. Osmen and Pienner i must say i am confused, are they utility players or are they actually in their prefered positions? Just because piennar plays centrally for South Africa doesnt mean LM is not his prefered position, and i dont think it matters where Osmen plays because he is always crap where ever he is on the pitch.
In my opinion the very best players can play in many positions and do a good job, Rooney ,Ronaldo, Gerrard all spring to mind.
Best players can play in many positions as you rightly say. But this is not a utility player as you appear to infer. To clarif, utility players are jack of all trades and have no specific expertise for positions - i.e. Neville - competent at both full back, left and right, can do a job in middle but not great in any.
The difference between utility players and players you mention - i.e, Gerrard - he has experise and is great in more than one position - he can right across the middle or further up just behind the front man. Therefore, it follows he’s agreat player like Ronaldo Rooney and not a utility player
The difference between utility players and players you mention - i.e, Gerrard - he has experise and is great in more than one position - he can right across the middle or further up just behind the front man. Therefore, it follows he’s agreat player like Ronaldo Rooney and not a utility player
Best players can play in many positions as you rightly say. But this is not a utility player as you appear to infer. To clarif, utility players are jack of all trades and have no specific expertise for positions - i.e. Neville - competent at both full back, left and right, can do a job in middle but not great in any.
The difference between utility players and players you mention - i.e, Gerrard - he has experise and is great in more than one position - he can right across the middle or further up just behind the front man. Therefore, it follows he’s agreat player like Ronaldo Rooney and not a utility player
The difference between utility players and players you mention - i.e, Gerrard - he has experise and is great in more than one position - he can right across the middle or further up just behind the front man. Therefore, it follows he’s agreat player like Ronaldo Rooney and not a utility player
Still seems to me like he is being used as a utility player, Arteta has been played accross the whole of midfield, Cahill hs been played upfront and in midfield are they not utility players or are they too good to be utility players like Gerrard.
The only difference as far as i am concerned is Neville is defensive and the others are attacking players and also the quality of the players. But have all been used as utility players, they have been accomedated for or used to try and balance a side.
The only difference as far as i am concerned is Neville is defensive and the others are attacking players and also the quality of the players. But have all been used as utility players, they have been accomedated for or used to try and balance a side.
How about Agard? Is he not a defensive player? However Danny boy seems like the logical choice. Can’t really see Joey going to right back and putting Rodders in the back four after all his midfield exploits.Although AEK are one of 2 or 3 top Greek sides, the standard of the Greek league is way below the Prem. and so I expect that the Blues despite current problems should be able to come out on top with the players who are left available and yes that does include Osman.
How very very strange, Hibbert gets slaughtered on this site, people refuse to see gilt edges chances he sets up - like the three against Wigan.
They claim hes responsible for many of the goals we concede - until you challenge them to name them, then silence is defening
And just like last season the first time he’s unavailable . . .we’ve got a fucken crisis Lol
They claim hes responsible for many of the goals we concede - until you challenge them to name them, then silence is defening
And just like last season the first time he’s unavailable . . .we’ve got a fucken crisis Lol
’after all hibbert is not a utility player but im sure you would rather he wasnt in the team’
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An incorrect assumption on your behalf.
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An incorrect assumption on your behalf.
So are you saying Hibbert should be our 1st choice RB ahead of Neviile and Heitinga and that Hibbert is not a weak link in the side?
Ian
It may have escaped your notice but Hibbert IS our first choice right back, has been for a decade now
It may have escaped your notice but Hibbert IS our first choice right back, has been for a decade now
I know he is but our right hand side has been the weakest part of our team for just as long unless Arteta has played out there, if we intend to improve and break into the top 4 then RB and RM are the 1st 2 positions that need improving.
So are you saying Hibbert should be our 1st choice RB ahead of Neviile and Heitinga and that Hibbert is not a weak link in the side?
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Im saying that if players are picked on merit, then Hibbert deserves his starting place in the team at the moment.
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Im saying that if players are picked on merit, then Hibbert deserves his starting place in the team at the moment.
Haha don’t make me laugh, what made me angry about Tony Hibbert hit that cross miles over at the last minute against Fulham in a good position when there was 4 players in the box. He is the most frustrating player.
Neill or Heitinga can play there now, who are both better players.
Neill or Heitinga can play there now, who are both better players.
Ben, I would say this season that his crosses have been better than Baines’
Also certainly his defensive aspect has pissed all over Baines’
Hmm they have both been poor this season, but I wouldn’t say Hibbert has been defensively better than Baines. Hibbert was at fault for leaving Paul Scharner by himself to head in that goal. Baines hasn’t done any notable mistakes in defence this season, unless I’m missing something obvious out?
I agree Baines should maybe be dropped too, but the difference is we have 1 left back and 4 right backs. And most, if not all, of those right backs are better than Hibbert
I agree Baines should maybe be dropped too, but the difference is we have 1 left back and 4 right backs. And most, if not all, of those right backs are better than Hibbert
Ben, have a look at the Wigan goal again and you will see that Scharner was actually Ossie’s man, Hibbert had his man covered.
How can you not say that Baines was not somewhat culpable for Fulhams second? One footed Duff, hmmm do I show him the outside where he will probably run the ball out or should I show him the inside to come in and have a crack with his favoured left........I haven’t played for a few years but even I know the answer to that one.
How can you not say that Baines was not somewhat culpable for Fulhams second? One footed Duff, hmmm do I show him the outside where he will probably run the ball out or should I show him the inside to come in and have a crack with his favoured left........I haven’t played for a few years but even I know the answer to that one.
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1 Posted 16/09/2009 at 12:26:52
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