The Mail Bag
Are Everton really racist?
Comments (26)
Having read about Diuof's nonsensical claim that he was racially abused and had bananas thrown at him, it made me think about Everton's previous reputation by most fans as a racist club... the most famous incident being when John Barnes had bananas thrown at him. We did not have a black player (not mixed-race as in the case of Trebilcock) consistently playing for us until 1995.
There is also an article someone wrote about our allegedly racist fans here on Football365.
To be honest. I think a lot of the racist stuff was going on at more or less every club during the 80s and I'm unsure why Everton have been singled out as having some of the most racist fans in the country. I've been to Goodison on numerous ocassions from the 90s and never once heard a racist remark towards me or anyone else.
In fact, I've spoken to a few fans in the ground and got along perfectly well, even though we didn't know each other from Adam. I'm not saying every fan is an angel but I do feel it must be a rare occurrence these days.
I guess Everton are still paying (for want of a better word) for that John Barnes incident...
Trevor Thompson, Posted 25/09/2009 at 19:45:58
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Michael Kenrick
I don't think the existing Diouf thread really considers this point and it seems to be a valid question to ask as a follow-up to Diouf's nonsense, so I am posting this as a separate thread.
You still hear the odd idiot making racist comments at Goodison (plus hissing in a "gas chamber" style vs Spurs several years back as I recall) but nothing like on the scale of the 1980s when it could be sickening. The same could be said for many clubs I daresay.
I guess Goodison is always an intimidating place to come to — something that makes for a fantastic atmosphere. But the flip side is that some supporters will resort to anything to put off the opposition — be it crass abuse or something of a racist hue.
We should not be complacent that racism has gone from grounds like Goodison (and others) and be prepared to speak up and report it. One thought: I wonder what percentage of fans attending Goodison these days are black/asian/mixed race... and how this compares to other city clubs?
I remember the start of the 1999-2000 season, someone had obviously got lost and bought seats in the top balcony, and seemed quite happy shouting about the ’niggers’ up front for Man Utd (Yorke and Cole), whilst the rest of us were revering Kevin Campbell, whose goals had kept us in the top division mere months earlier.
I also remember my next door neighbour when I was a kid (this was a guy who wasn’t into football at all) pointing out that only Everton and Chelsea (I can’t be accurate about when this was but I reckon early 90s) had never had a black player. Our reputation went beyond those within the game and wasn’t good. It had never occurred to me to think about it, but once he mentioned it, I realised we’d not had any high profile black players that I was aware of.
I also remember, within weeks of moving to Liverpool at the age of 18, being shocked when these sound lads I’d just met and got pissed with starting singing songs about ’hanging kopites’ (I’d not heard that one before) and Paul Ince being a ’nigger’, which, when this one lad saw my face, he stopped singing. He knew it wasn’t right but it seemed he’d never come across anyone who wasn’t happy with the song, and as he apologised, he explained that he was from Bootle and there were no black people there, so everyone sang it and it seemed okay.
We can’t deny that the Everton support, and the city in general, has this element to it, but I genuinely believe that this is something that is based in ignorance rather than evil, and that it is something that, with the simple but courageous step of some of us standing up and being counted when we hear it, will be got rid of sooner rather than later.
I make no attempt to judge whether we as a support are any more or less racist than any other club, I simply wouldn’t know, but in four years as a season ticket holder in the Top Balcony, and six years living in the city, those are the only two incidents that struck me as wrong.
I also remember my next door neighbour when I was a kid (this was a guy who wasn’t into football at all) pointing out that only Everton and Chelsea (I can’t be accurate about when this was but I reckon early 90s) had never had a black player. Our reputation went beyond those within the game and wasn’t good. It had never occurred to me to think about it, but once he mentioned it, I realised we’d not had any high profile black players that I was aware of.
I also remember, within weeks of moving to Liverpool at the age of 18, being shocked when these sound lads I’d just met and got pissed with starting singing songs about ’hanging kopites’ (I’d not heard that one before) and Paul Ince being a ’nigger’, which, when this one lad saw my face, he stopped singing. He knew it wasn’t right but it seemed he’d never come across anyone who wasn’t happy with the song, and as he apologised, he explained that he was from Bootle and there were no black people there, so everyone sang it and it seemed okay.
We can’t deny that the Everton support, and the city in general, has this element to it, but I genuinely believe that this is something that is based in ignorance rather than evil, and that it is something that, with the simple but courageous step of some of us standing up and being counted when we hear it, will be got rid of sooner rather than later.
I make no attempt to judge whether we as a support are any more or less racist than any other club, I simply wouldn’t know, but in four years as a season ticket holder in the Top Balcony, and six years living in the city, those are the only two incidents that struck me as wrong.
The rest of the time, it simply never came up, and the other week when I brought my wife to her first game (vs Wigan) I wasn’t worried in advance and had no reason to be during the game. She was simply another fan, and her brown skin made no difference whatsoever to anything that happened that day.
Trevor
You say Everton never had a black player until 1995, I question this, though you do say consistently.
I recall a player by the name of Cliff Marshall playing in the 1974 season, he made only one or two appearances.
I saw him play against West Ham at Goodison, I think in 74 but memory has a habit of playing cruel tricks so can anyone confirm this.
You say Everton never had a black player until 1995, I question this, though you do say consistently.
I recall a player by the name of Cliff Marshall playing in the 1974 season, he made only one or two appearances.
I saw him play against West Ham at Goodison, I think in 74 but memory has a habit of playing cruel tricks so can anyone confirm this.
You will find that every single team has a section of fans subscribing to xenophobic views. Xenophobia is a social and a political issue; it has nothing to do with football, let alone Everton Football Club. Is it not considered legitimate to bash Muslims nowadays, just as it was considered legitimate to bash Jews some sixty years ago? The politicians and the media are to blame for this social disease.
I agree with those who say it is a social problem rather than a problem with EFC. Mindless idiots exist in every walk of life and are not confined to the so called "working class", far from it.
I certainly don’t think fans of Everton are worse than many other clubs. I would say that i am proud that black players have worn the captains armband and led Everton out, but i don’t see them as black players. I see the likes of Campbell and Yobo as great players and men who i feel proud to have watched play for my club.
In this day of great sensitivities it is all too easy to undermine the work that has been done to correct misaligned views and the actions of Diouff, in what seems to be a desperate playing of the race card, is very sad. It should go to remind us that as much as caucasians have a responsibility to act humanely so does every other race.
I certainly don’t think fans of Everton are worse than many other clubs. I would say that i am proud that black players have worn the captains armband and led Everton out, but i don’t see them as black players. I see the likes of Campbell and Yobo as great players and men who i feel proud to have watched play for my club.
In this day of great sensitivities it is all too easy to undermine the work that has been done to correct misaligned views and the actions of Diouff, in what seems to be a desperate playing of the race card, is very sad. It should go to remind us that as much as caucasians have a responsibility to act humanely so does every other race.
P.S. What true Everton supporter wouldn’t welcome Yak, Pienaar, Yobo, Distin etc into their home and revere them and treat them like royalty? I know i would!
I dont think Everton as a club helped with an apparent refusal to sign black players and it took a certain Peter Johnson to take the brave step of splashing out a load of cash on Daniel Amokachi.
I can still remember vividly Johnson and Amokachi walking out on the pitch and some crank from the bullens road running on the pitch with foam coming out of his mouth and getting restrained by a load of police and stewards.
I know about Cliff Marshall and there was a certain FA Cup Hero from the 60’s who some people had their doubts about. However Daniel Amokachi was the first high profile regular black player and it is something retrospectively we may have to thank Peter Johnson for.
I can still remember vividly Johnson and Amokachi walking out on the pitch and some crank from the bullens road running on the pitch with foam coming out of his mouth and getting restrained by a load of police and stewards.
I know about Cliff Marshall and there was a certain FA Cup Hero from the 60’s who some people had their doubts about. However Daniel Amokachi was the first high profile regular black player and it is something retrospectively we may have to thank Peter Johnson for.
Hugh, I’m well aware of Cliff Marshall that’s why I said consistently. Being black and from London, during the time Everton didn’t have a black player in their squad, I mostly got the, "Why’d you support Everton?" and then, "But they are racist, they don’t have black players" questions quite a lot. To be fair, it never really bothered me. I support Everton and that’s that; although wrongly, I’ll admit, I desperately wanted Amokachi to succeed mainly because of his colour instead of him being good. Like I said - wrong thing to do.
Down here Liverpool, the city, had a reputation as being quite a racist place to go. So the first time I went, I was weary but found to my pleasure that no names were mentioned. The odd stare, but more to do with the fact it was unusual to see a black person at Everton back in the early 90s. Now I feel it’s the norm.
Down here Liverpool, the city, had a reputation as being quite a racist place to go. So the first time I went, I was weary but found to my pleasure that no names were mentioned. The odd stare, but more to do with the fact it was unusual to see a black person at Everton back in the early 90s. Now I feel it’s the norm.
I recall Howard Kendall walking out because he was denied the funds to sign Dion Dublin. Many people thought that it might have had to do with racism at the Everton board. I seriously do not believe so. If you look at the clubs with a high representation of black players back then, you will find that these clubs were from areas with a high level of multicultural composition, viz., the clubs from London. Why focus on Everton? How many black players did Liverpool F.C. have during their golden era? The truth is that immigrants did not want to move to Liverpool, a city sorely neglected by our politicians, with its industry a complete shambles. Times have changed. We live in a multicultural society. And our present team reflects this social fact: Bilyaletdinov is a Tatar and a Muslim, Osman is half Turkish, Cahill is half Samoan, Arteta is a Basque. I will not even bother to name all our players of African descent.
Dominic Bobadilla
What an excellent observation.Liverpool were also pretty slow off the mark regarding players of ethnic background but it usually disappears under the radar. People who regularly trot out the old Barnes/Watford/banana thing may forget, or choose to forget, that Barnes allegedly suffered similar treatment at Anfield and you may also recall that he took an age to eventually sign for the RS because he was unsure as to what kind of reception he would get. I vividly remember a phone in on Merseyside when RS supporters slagged Barnes off for dithering and said they didn’t want "his sort" at Anfield. That may,or may not, have referred to his colour but if Everton fans said a similar thing these days we would be castigated for being "racist".
What an excellent observation.Liverpool were also pretty slow off the mark regarding players of ethnic background but it usually disappears under the radar. People who regularly trot out the old Barnes/Watford/banana thing may forget, or choose to forget, that Barnes allegedly suffered similar treatment at Anfield and you may also recall that he took an age to eventually sign for the RS because he was unsure as to what kind of reception he would get. I vividly remember a phone in on Merseyside when RS supporters slagged Barnes off for dithering and said they didn’t want "his sort" at Anfield. That may,or may not, have referred to his colour but if Everton fans said a similar thing these days we would be castigated for being "racist".
Grobelaar received abuse on the streets when he first arrived in Liverpool.
At that time it was only 30 years since the emmerging pockets of ethnic communities so you’re going to have the generations overlap and make impressions on younger people.
At that time it was only 30 years since the emmerging pockets of ethnic communities so you’re going to have the generations overlap and make impressions on younger people.
ray
I was only talking to a RS supporter the other day who says he clearly remembers barnes first game at anfield , the game had not long started when he was pelted with bananas, but barnes made light of it by peeling one and eating it, the media strangely seem to ignore this ,yet always highlight the derby game.
I was only talking to a RS supporter the other day who says he clearly remembers barnes first game at anfield , the game had not long started when he was pelted with bananas, but barnes made light of it by peeling one and eating it, the media strangely seem to ignore this ,yet always highlight the derby game.
Nick Entwistle, mate, Grobby was probably taunted because of his ridiculous moustache! Did anyone ever see so many moustaches as in the case of Liverpool’s starting eleven?
John Anderson,
Thanks John, it always helps when someone else can verify your recollections.
Thanks John, it always helps when someone else can verify your recollections.
Come on Dominic, that is outrageously moustachist. lol
I’d like to think that the club have put a lot of distance between that old reputation and our current image. It was something that I was aware of in my youth growing up supporting the blues, but like others have said above it was mainly to do with the Barnes incident which will always be held up by the media as a symbol of the racism in football at the time.
Unfortunately you can have a crowd of 40,000 and if one tit gets caught on camera spewing racist vitriol at a player then it can create an image of a racist club. It’s not accurate but especially in todays sensitive and PC world it will be lapped up. We need to stand up to these ignorant people and hound them out. I’ve never thought any banter from the crowd could be more rediculous than shouting racist abuse at an opposition player when they have 4 or 5 of them wearing the beloved blue shirt of the club they support. DURRRR!
The current "Kick Racism out of Football" campaign is necessary and welcomed, but the only people who can really force the change are the fans. We must rise up against this kind of horrible "banter" (not always born of hatred often just ignorance) and make it clear to those who do it that it is unacceptable and that the majority will not accept it. It’s not big and it’s certainly not clever.
I must admit I was relieved to hear that there had been no evidence found to back up Diouff’s claims of banana throwing as I would have been deeply disappointed and ashamed if there had been. The fact that he chooses to casually throw this accusation into the pot to defend his actions is as bad if not worse than a lot of the ignorant crap that has been spouted from the terraces. IMHO it is a vain attempt to divert attention from his pathetic tantrum and I find him to be a vile man.
COYB
I’d like to think that the club have put a lot of distance between that old reputation and our current image. It was something that I was aware of in my youth growing up supporting the blues, but like others have said above it was mainly to do with the Barnes incident which will always be held up by the media as a symbol of the racism in football at the time.
Unfortunately you can have a crowd of 40,000 and if one tit gets caught on camera spewing racist vitriol at a player then it can create an image of a racist club. It’s not accurate but especially in todays sensitive and PC world it will be lapped up. We need to stand up to these ignorant people and hound them out. I’ve never thought any banter from the crowd could be more rediculous than shouting racist abuse at an opposition player when they have 4 or 5 of them wearing the beloved blue shirt of the club they support. DURRRR!
The current "Kick Racism out of Football" campaign is necessary and welcomed, but the only people who can really force the change are the fans. We must rise up against this kind of horrible "banter" (not always born of hatred often just ignorance) and make it clear to those who do it that it is unacceptable and that the majority will not accept it. It’s not big and it’s certainly not clever.
I must admit I was relieved to hear that there had been no evidence found to back up Diouff’s claims of banana throwing as I would have been deeply disappointed and ashamed if there had been. The fact that he chooses to casually throw this accusation into the pot to defend his actions is as bad if not worse than a lot of the ignorant crap that has been spouted from the terraces. IMHO it is a vain attempt to divert attention from his pathetic tantrum and I find him to be a vile man.
COYB
It is this sort of reputation which kept me, a Chinese, from going up to see the Blues play in the 90s when I was studying in London. The thought of potential abuse from ’racist’ fans did not appeal at all.
It’s different in London stadiums like Highbury and Stamford Bridge, where you will always see Asian fans in the terraces. Not so in Goodison unfortunately.
So my question is, a decade on now, is the situation any better ? I will be working in London again in a couple of months and certainly don’t want to miss the chance again to visit GP on a match day. But how cautious should I be ?
It’s different in London stadiums like Highbury and Stamford Bridge, where you will always see Asian fans in the terraces. Not so in Goodison unfortunately.
So my question is, a decade on now, is the situation any better ? I will be working in London again in a couple of months and certainly don’t want to miss the chance again to visit GP on a match day. But how cautious should I be ?
Hey, I’m 41 and I remember J. Barnes and bananas raining on the pitch. I remember Laurie Cunningham substitute, playing for Utd and getting monkey noises. I remember the guy selling Nazi memorobilia near Goodison and the Socialist Workers Party stickers all over nearby walls reminding us he was a racist. I remember a boy of 7 or 8 shouting nigger at the Wimbledon relegation game [I was too wimpy to tell him to shut it cos he was sitting on his Dads lap].
I remember a Black London mate going into pubs on the Walton Road with local lads fearing for his life.
So it wasn’t an isolated incident and if it’s changed...good,
Dave in Tokyo
I remember a Black London mate going into pubs on the Walton Road with local lads fearing for his life.
So it wasn’t an isolated incident and if it’s changed...good,
Dave in Tokyo
Hey, I’m 41 and I remember J. Barnes and bananas raining on the pitch. I remember Laurie Cunningham substitute, playing for Utd and getting monkey noises. I remember the guy selling Nazi memorobilia near Goodison and the Socialist Workers Party stickers all over nearby walls reminding us he was a racist. I remember a boy of 7 or 8 shouting nigger at the Wimbledon relegation game [I was too wimpy to tell him to shut it cos he was sitting on his Dads lap].
I remember a Black London mate going into pubs on the Walton Road with local lads fearing for his life.
So it wasn’t an isolated incident and if it’s changed...good,
Dave in Tokyo
I remember a Black London mate going into pubs on the Walton Road with local lads fearing for his life.
So it wasn’t an isolated incident and if it’s changed...good,
Dave in Tokyo
Raymond Choi, mate, you have nothing whatsoever to fear. 99% of the Evertonians are top blokes. Even Leeds Utd fans turn out be nice chaps at the end of the day.
John Barnes was also pelted with bananas when he made his debut for Liverpool at Arsenal by Liverpool fans (if you remember, he was holding out for a move to Arsenal or Spurs rather than come up north).
My perception, as an Evertonian who was neither born nor raised in the city (unlike my Dad and his brothers) was that the crowd in Goodison did indeed have more than its fair share of racists.
I’ve seen bananas thrown on the pitch and heard words used (like 'nigger' and 'coon') I’d not heard elsewhere. Indeed, I heard a colleague at work use 'coon' when I worked in Bootle in the early 1990s.
So, however, I’m also aware that fans reach for the handiest insult when having a go at the opposition. Someone may call out "black bastard" not because of any strong racist tendencies, but merely because it’s a handy thing to hurl at someone.
Doubtless had I ever played, I’d have had people shouting "fat bastard" at me, simply because it’s the most obvious and convenient label to use to insult me. In the same way, because I’m white haired and have a beard, around December time I get complete strangers shouting "Santa!" in the street at me (especially if I’m foolish enough to wear a red fleece my wife bought me). I don’t take it personally although it puzzles me what moves folk to shout at strangers in the street?!
One anecdote I do want to share which, 25 years on, still makes me smile (and I know it has raised a smile when told to black friends): at a game in 1985 or 86, the Gwladys Street goal was under siege in the first half by Watford. Their front line included Barnes and Blisset, with a couple of other black players in the team as well as I recall. They really had us under the cosh. After they’d won yet another corner, the Street end suddenly started humming ’Men of Harlech’. Droll is not the word to describe it! I wince at racist remarks but on that occasion I laughed out loud.
The gods smiled on us and in the second half we gained the upper hand and ran-out 4-0 winners.
I’ve seen bananas thrown on the pitch and heard words used (like 'nigger' and 'coon') I’d not heard elsewhere. Indeed, I heard a colleague at work use 'coon' when I worked in Bootle in the early 1990s.
So, however, I’m also aware that fans reach for the handiest insult when having a go at the opposition. Someone may call out "black bastard" not because of any strong racist tendencies, but merely because it’s a handy thing to hurl at someone.
Doubtless had I ever played, I’d have had people shouting "fat bastard" at me, simply because it’s the most obvious and convenient label to use to insult me. In the same way, because I’m white haired and have a beard, around December time I get complete strangers shouting "Santa!" in the street at me (especially if I’m foolish enough to wear a red fleece my wife bought me). I don’t take it personally although it puzzles me what moves folk to shout at strangers in the street?!
One anecdote I do want to share which, 25 years on, still makes me smile (and I know it has raised a smile when told to black friends): at a game in 1985 or 86, the Gwladys Street goal was under siege in the first half by Watford. Their front line included Barnes and Blisset, with a couple of other black players in the team as well as I recall. They really had us under the cosh. After they’d won yet another corner, the Street end suddenly started humming ’Men of Harlech’. Droll is not the word to describe it! I wince at racist remarks but on that occasion I laughed out loud.
The gods smiled on us and in the second half we gained the upper hand and ran-out 4-0 winners.
Being a Western German living in Eastern Germany, I can tell you that everybody here in Germany considers the Eastern Germans — die Osties — to be racist bastards. This is simply not true. Die Osties are much nicer than the Americanised Western bastards.
The bastards from the West send the Osties to Afghanistan as cannon fodder, they set up their cheap labour industries here in Eastern Germany, they treat the Osties as second class citizens. You know, I am not surprised in the least when I hear that there are so many bitter Osties. They have been treated like dirt ever since the unification.
It’s the same with the scousers. "Feed the scousers, let them know it’s Christmas time." If this degraded lot gives vent to its frustration in the form of racism, I may not condone it, but at least I will be able to understand the cause of the frustration. It’s a social and a political problem, so stop blaming Everton.
May Gordon Brown hang himself, may Angela Markel drown in the Spree. UP THE BLUES!
Hmmmm Dominic. So the Western population think you guys are racist, but you think they are Americanised Western bastards. Maybe 40 years years behind the iron curtain didn’t help you guys out any, but you need to realise your hypocritical ignorant xenophobia.
And of course you’ve got cheap labour industries in the East. You can’t just magic up a viable market in a country put under communism, be it 20 years or not since then.
Mmmmm, tasty chips on your shoulder. Past the salt.
And of course you’ve got cheap labour industries in the East. You can’t just magic up a viable market in a country put under communism, be it 20 years or not since then.
Mmmmm, tasty chips on your shoulder. Past the salt.
I recall RS fans at Goodison derbies in the mid-nineties howling racist abuse at their own players (Michael Thomas springs to mind), whereas we were singing the more mildly amusing ’one dodgy keeper’ at James.
Nicky, I am from the West, and I am fed up with the West. I side with the poor. Things, by the way, were not all that bad in DDR. They had a very decent living standard. Obviously, you do not live here, so you wouldn’t understand. All I can say is that this country is run by the CDU traitors who deserve a worse fate than the Romans at Cannae.
Regrettably I think that there is a considerable minority of fans who travel to away games who still exhibit a high degree of racism. It’s not the club’s fault, more the crass ignorance and stupidity of those who seem to want to differentiate between the black lads who play for the club and those who play for the opposition.
It’s up to us all to refuse to accept such behaviour - but it’s pretty difficult to object when you’re (say) on a coach with 10 such morons. I suspect that the by and large intelligent people who contribute to Toffeeweb do not always constitute a true representative cross section of all Everton supporters.
Having said that, I had a black mate who went to Goodison a few times 7 or 8 years ago and he had no problems whatosever.
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