Can’t argue with single word of that, so I won’t. Sad though isn’t it. Kenwiright has done us good and proper, still least he’s a blue- Ha!

Maybe Kenwrong got Orville instead of Keith Harris looking for this mythical billionaire that doesn’t exist. Unless BK drops dead or Phil finally comes out of the shadows and calls in "the tick" BK has taken out, we are stuck in the same old same old...

Claiming to bid for players which turns out to be on the never never, who then go to an employer who actually has the money to pay for them; then manufacture some bullshit about a player/players disrupting the club and wanting out to escape getting well deserved bell-end from the fans and get sold last minute.

Then we sign players no one has ever heard of, predominantly jacks of all trades, master of none. And you can bet your last penny the word defensive — and able to play in a number of positions — will be in their description and the squad size will hover about 20ish players.

As an Evertonian, hope and love of the club is everything. Even though none of the points made in the article are news to me, it's like being hit in the face with a cold fish to see it spelled out in the media.

It's stark reality that Everton have big big problems. We are a good team and can push for top 4, but only on the condition that we have no injuries and our squad play out of their skin all year.

I’m well in truely over debating the virtues of Bill Kenwright. Discussing the merits of the current board is a fast track to depression. At this point I wouldn’t give a shit if Kenwright was our chairman well into the future.

But in modern football if you want success, especially in a league as powerful as the EPL, money talks. We need more resources fast.

If the idea of being mid-table scares some of us, if we keep enduring summers like we have recently, our position in the table is only going to slide. I love the passion and grit of this club and I’ll support them no matter what level we are at but the challenge facing Moyes is like pushing water uphill.

This guy predicted Liverpool would win the league. Renders everything else he says worthless, especially since he hints that the title is not completely out of reach for them just yet.

One thing that strikes me is the contradiction of those that hate Kenwright. On one hand, they blame him for not getting money, and pumping it into the playing staff. And then on the other hand, blame Kenwright for the amount of debt that the club is in.

Even if he gets the money in, he would then be criticised for putting the club into financial ruin. As you may have noticed, most chairman of any company do not put their own money in. They use their business/personal asset portfolios as the guarantees for loans. The richer you are, obviously the more loans you can get (a la United, whose parent holdings company has debts valued at around 700 million pounds.)

The people who make the assumption that Everton are being badly run because debt has increased since Kenwright took over are wrong. Yes, debt has increased. But it is proportional to the increases in SKY money that we get. Our income has grown, so we are able to service more debt. We are no more insolvent today then at any other time. I think the way in which we are being run is the right way. And that is to live on the financial edge, and use every penny of the income to maximise what you have on the pitch.

People on here have labelled me as naive in the past, because I believe DK offers us a good deal in terms of being more financially competitive. Of course, this is taking out the emotional argument of relocation, and assuming that we will reach the target of attendance. Yet the same people labeling me as naive, believe that a chairman is going to come in and buy us a new stadium, and then continually pour money into the club without ever getting a return. Am I really the one being naive?

Dan, it is not you that is naïve but rather it is a particular group on here that holds a blinding hatred of BK. Their mind-set is similar to a Pavlov syndrome wherein the merest mention of BK is enough to send them into a paroxysm of rage. All too often, that group is the reason why an otherwise excellent discussion piece devolves into rag bag juvenile name-calling.

Recently, the situation has deteriorated with anything on any topic enough to set them off on their anti-BK crusade. It is not even necessary to mention his name for the same people to regurgitate a predictable and completely boring venom.

In ToffeeWeb we are fortunate to have one of the best if not the very best of football magazines. What makes it so good is a firm yet democratic central control by Michael and the board at toffee towers.
Another important factor toward the success of this site is its many intelligent and informative contributions from readers. Sadly there are occasions when the line between democratic fair comment is crossed. I have been guilty of crossing that line a few times and Michael K has quite rightly chastised me.
Regarding the first few writers to this topic it is surely the case that everything, real and imaginary, that needs be said about BK has been repeated a thousand times.

Dan and to some extent Dick, have either of you ever ran a business? Just out of interest, are you aware that the Chairman of a company should be capable of running that business by employing the right staff and support structures to enable something called profits and not losses?

A company that makes less money than it spends is doomed to eventual failure as the line of creditors will eventually demand their money back.

Other football clubs have found investment and buyers, yet the three wise monkey mode BK supporters cry the same old "he’s one of us", etc etc ad nauseum. Well aren’t you Evertonians too, so does that dodgy logic make you the best person to run Everton FC just on that one credential?

BK has continually failed to employ the righty staff, develop income streams, or take golden opportunities to make money. He haas openly lied to fans to maintain his position as chairman of the football club but again "he’s one of us".

Care to explain, if he is looking 24/7, what the public hearing shows you that not one of the major shareholders are willing to sell or dilute their shareholdings actually means in the cold stark light of day?

Dan now a really easy one for you, do you still genuinely believe DK will generate income — given the transport infrastructure required to fill the stadium in order to make any profits isn’t in place? And the likelihood that the club will lose support — given the DK opposition fans will vote with their feet?

How do you think they will still generate profit given the build will incur additional debt? If BK isn’t responsible for the debt then who is, Dan? If the detractors who upset you so much about BK could actually have you acknowledge this, we could look for a replacement of BK as he never has and never will have the money to run an EPL football club and he has even admitted such — but have you acknowledged that?

Gavin, seeing as you are expert on business costs, a few questions for you:

1. What do you reckon is the 2nd most important reason why Everton cannot attract an investor? I won’t waste my own time or yours asking your first choice.

2. Where did the money come from to buy Howard, Yakubu, Fellaini, Bily, Heitinga, Baines, Pienaar and Distin?

On top of the purchase price of that lot, you can add their wages plus those of Neill, Saha, Cahill, all other players, Moyes and his coaching staff and every other day-to-day expense of running the club.

Dick, I run my own successful business and you still haven't answered my question. But, seeing as your retort was an absolute piece of piss, lets try Sky money, which each and every club gets no matter who is the chairman, linked to loans guaranteed against such... Given the only thing Everton now own is the players contracts, how much longer is that viable?

Come on, Dick, enlighten me with YOUR acumen or better still answer the question with a reply. Record losses are record losses no matter how deep your head is buried in sand. Wait for the recent mortgage/loan to appear on the annual return next year to see it... three guesses... increase again.

Lads, this is the same Phil McNulty who used to write for The Echo. Although he use to comment on our games, I have it on very good authority (I work with his best mate) that he is a born & bred supporter of the shite. I think that explains his comments about them winning the league this season (laughable) and for him hounding the great Joe Royle out of a job during his time on the Echo!

Gavin, appologies for delays but my computer whizz insisted on all kinds of updates of my computer and at last they are finished.

Now back to our little quibble... Many years ago I surrendered my hands on approach to business to others with more time and enthusiasm for that kind of thing. What I retained is a modicum of common sense, enough to inure me from time-wasting argument that goes nowhere.

You can protest at how the club is run and like us all you are free to offer advice on alternative methods. Where we differ is where you are a bit too quick and incessant in the one track mindedness of your denigration of BK.

Most of your criticsm seems to be based on fiducial concerns that neither you nor I has complete knowledge of. Unfortunately, you allow a business like approach to be tainted by personal hatred of the man.

I honestly have not a clue of what occurs in Goodison’s boardroom but what I think is very odd is if BK is making such an almighty mess as you claim, there has not been a shred of evidence that he has acted improperly in his role as chairman.

Dick, Does that include the "Fortress Sports Fund" or the NTL deal or the Kings Dock fiasco where the money was allegedly "ring-fenced"?

All lies told by BK in an extraordinary effort to get rid of Paul Gregg. The same Paul Gregg who, allegedly, was prepared to pay for the Kings Dock in exchange for a larger shareholding.

BK is a liar pure and simple!

Dick, I have no personal hatred of Bill Kenwright, I just happen to believe that, as long as he remains at Goodison Park, the club will stand still at best. He has lived the dream of all Evertonians and he has done it on the cheap. He wants an investor, not a buyer, and he will never easily give up being chairman.

Some of his statements and comments suggest that he is pretending to be stupid ("I’m only the chairman") or he actually IS stupid... neither comforting to supporters. Unfortunately, tearful luvviness is not enough.

I’m open to someone educating me but I simply can’t understand those who support no matter what the post is.

I have no personal grudge against the man. I don’t know him personally so any opinion I have of him is based on his actions. Let's look at his track record. In the plus column results have gradually picked up under Kenwright, he employed Moyes and we now have one of the best squads we have had in years. The club is still getting by under Bill and yes, he is one of us.

But on the dark side, he is taking the club away from its traditional home to a development that keeps getting downgraded with every update. The constant bullshit fans have to put up with every transfer period.
Fortress Sports Fund, NTL deal and Kings Dock all happened on his watch.

Lastly and most importantly for me in this period where success in football requires at least some financial clout he has delivered nothing and admitted he does not have the resources.

As for comments like where did money come from to buy Howard, Yakubu, Fellaini, Bily, Heitinga, Baines, Pienaar and Distin that’s easy.

Off the top of my head Bily, Distin, Heitinga and Fellaini cost next to nothing as they were funded in the most part buy the sales of existing players like Lescott and AJ. As for Yakubu, Howard and the others mentioned I don’t think we paid for them all with profits.

Cold hard facts are, if Moyes and the players hadn’t worked miracles on the field in past seasons, Bill would have been grilled. They way this man goes about business and in the media gets under my skin. Why is there the need to say things like we are looking 24/7 and watch this space?

It's bullshit and just him at his theatrical best. I could care less how much love Bill has for the club. Love of the club is not the key ingredient for a chairman, its being a wealthy and smart businessman. While Bill may be better at that game than the average man, he is out of his depth when compared his peers. I’d love to know just how much control Green and Earl have...

Russell. SOOOO right!

I do not have second sight and can only go by what takes place on the field and what is corroborated by independant witnesses.

I can hardly describe those who think differently as such. Their patently obvious dislike of BK eliminates them from any impartial judgement on the matter.

What amuses me with the anti-BK posts is how frequently Paul Gregg’s name appears as if he was some kind of saviour who BIll pushed aside.

For those who think that, I would like you to examine a number of other clubs in more recent years, particularly Sheff Wed (and one other that I can’t remember!)

Paul Gregg tried to buy them and the owners wouldn’t touch him with a barge pole — now surely this says something about the man who supposedly had the finances to build Kings Dock and save Everton.

Gavin, thank you for your educational post giving many factual insights into the business world.

Please let me try and answer you. Firstly, a chairman is measured on the success of his business in comparison to when he took over. The product of EFC is football, and the success is measured by achievements in the competitions they play in. So, the fact is that Kenwright has up to now achieved in successfully improving Everton Football Club compared to when he took over.

Regarding Kirkby, transportation for me is not an issue. I will go and watch Everton no matter what it takes. I don't watch EFC because it is conveniently located. If I have a ticket, very little will stop me getting to that match. And I truly believe that most Everton fans have the same mentality. The majority of our support is diehard and fanatical. I can't imagine those people I see around me at the match showing that passion thinking, "Fuck that, I am not using an extra half hour to go to the match". The majority I see look like they would practically die for the club if asked.

For your second point regarding Will it make money? — I think Yes it will, based on the fact it's a new stadium, with much more enjoyable facilities and bigger capacity. A lot of people refuse to go and watch Everton today because they refuse to pay money for poor facilities and obstructed seats. DK will attract those people back to watching their football team. It's no coincidence our average attendance hovers around the number of unobstructed seats in the ground. That said, I am sure there are a lot of fans who will refuse to go. But as I explained, there are already a lot of fans that refuse to go because of the poor facilities today. The derby alone shows just how much demand there is. People will sit with 50% of their view blocked just to watch the derby. But they are not going to do it against Stoke or Bolton, and quite rightly so.

If we stay at Goodison, it doesn't really matter what chairman comes in after BK, debt will have to increase if we are to pump decent money into the squad. Fine tuning merchandise and the indirect cash streams is not going to generate millions of pounds per year.

Corporate facilities at Goodison are never going to be anywhere near Premier League standard, we all know that. This is another revenue stream we cannot tap because of our current facilities. I think we had a shit deal with JJB, and it seems now that the club has improved with new stores opening and kit manufacturer.

I think our club is doing well with the resources available, when measured against other clubs and taking into account their positives and constraints.

We all want a chairman to come in who is just going to pump hundreds of millions into Everton without getting anything back. But I simply don’t believe this is going to happen. This effectively means that most of the people on this website will never be happy. There are a lot of much wealthier chairman behind teams that are much farther behind ours. That can tell you a lot about what kind of job Kenwright has done for Everton.

Please take into account, that I do not use Kenwright as being an Evertonian as a factor in any of my opinions. My opinion is based on one thing only, and that is what our team has achieved during his tenure in comparison to when he took over.

Further to that Gavin, I would like to highlight something about a point you recently made about our club:

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Gavin Ramejkis
Posted 26/10/2009 at 02:34:22
Michael Oskoui, welcome to the site and I’ll probably get some turgid responses to this but of the games you listed:

Villa - on last three Everton games our defence will be shredded by their pace - 0 points

West Ham - on one of today's matches worth watching turning a 0-2 to Arsenal to a deserved draw shows how you keep playing til the fat lady sings - lucky to get 1 point

Man Utd - not a hope at the theatre of weet dreams - 0 points

RS - again after today watch how ladyboy’s pace takes a poor defence apart - 0 points

Spurs - a bogey team for us no matter how well we play - lucky to get 1 point

Chelski - too much pace a footballing ability as DM NEVER ATTACKS A TOP 4 SIDE despite the Wigan game v Chelski which showed it can be done - 0 points

We will be lucky to come from those games with 2 points. Donning my tin hat, but from what I’ve seen so far this season, especially last few weeks a reasonable guess.

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I had to look up the meaning of ’turgid’, and it comes out as: pompous and overcomplicated: pompous, boring, and overcomplicated

Considering we have already doubled your ’reasonable guess’ points tally with 4 games to go, do you know think you have a fair and accurate opinion of everything that is Everton? Or might it be fair to say you have a generally negative view with little faith, regardless of the situation?

My apologies if this reply is seen as turgid.

Why, if you don't believe what Bill says, are you called a hater? I certainly do not hate him but I don't trust him either. Let's be honest, he has lied too many times to be trusted at face value.

I agree with a lot Gavin has written and find it amusing that most who distrust Bill also appear to be season ticket holders — hardly the type to want a witch hunt at their own club.