The Mail Bag
Kirkby Rejected!
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It's true, guys. You will either love it or hate it but the move to Kirkby has been turned down by the Governement.
Eric Day, Posted 25/11/2009 at 16:40:03
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Sky just announced it’s been rejected. No other news yet...
BREAKING NEWS: Kirkby rejected according to Sky...
Right lads, KEIOC have got there wish...
Now 4 plan B.
Lets wait until its official from a government spokesman before we can confirm that God truly is a BLUE
Now it’s time.
Sell up Kenwright
Sell up Kenwright
It’s time the directors looked at the KEIOC plans after they have been ignored for the past 3years!!
If true IMHO its the greatest news in our long history given the damage to our fanbase,heritage and soul it would cause, yet also another sad day, as it will go down as another total cock up waste of time and money by a clueless board who for years have lied and treated us like fools.
Can't find any news saying DK has been rejected, someone make my fuckin’ day and tell me where I can get confirmation.
I won't believe it until I hear it officially, there's nothing on Sky so where did the rumour begin?
How much money has been wasted then?
So, whats plan B??
Apart from KEIOC...? which the board have totally ignored for 3 years, what other ’feesable’ plan have we got...?
Do up the old lady? how much will that cost? and whats the max capacity possible where we currently reside?
Apart from KEIOC...? which the board have totally ignored for 3 years, what other ’feesable’ plan have we got...?
Do up the old lady? how much will that cost? and whats the max capacity possible where we currently reside?
’There’s no plan B’
How many times have we heard this?
How many times have we heard this?
http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528,11095_5720222,00.html
Please please please let it be fucking true
Taxi for that cunt Kenwrong methinks
Please please please let it be fucking true
Taxi for that cunt Kenwrong methinks
From Skysports.com :
http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528,11671_5720222,00.html
Government dash Toffees plans
Proposed new stadium turned down
Last updated: 25th November 2009
Sky Sports News understands Everton’s plans to build a new stadium in Kirkby have been knocked back by the government.
The Toffees had hoped to relocate from their current home at Goodison Park to a new ground outside of Liverpool city centre.
Everton were planning to construct an area which would hold over 50,000 people and would be ready for use by 2012.
The stadium was supposed to form part of a wider ’Kirkby Project’, which would include other retail outlets.
Initial plans were submitted back in February 2007, with stadium proposals put forward in June of the same year.
Knowsley Council approved the plans in June 2008, but two months later the project was called in by the government.
It is now understood that the secretary of state has vetoed the plans, bringing proceedings to a halt.
Hull one up (Stephen Hunt)
Playing better though....COYB!
http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528,11671_5720222,00.html
Government dash Toffees plans
Proposed new stadium turned down
Last updated: 25th November 2009
Sky Sports News understands Everton’s plans to build a new stadium in Kirkby have been knocked back by the government.
The Toffees had hoped to relocate from their current home at Goodison Park to a new ground outside of Liverpool city centre.
Everton were planning to construct an area which would hold over 50,000 people and would be ready for use by 2012.
The stadium was supposed to form part of a wider ’Kirkby Project’, which would include other retail outlets.
Initial plans were submitted back in February 2007, with stadium proposals put forward in June of the same year.
Knowsley Council approved the plans in June 2008, but two months later the project was called in by the government.
It is now understood that the secretary of state has vetoed the plans, bringing proceedings to a halt.
Hull one up (Stephen Hunt)
Playing better though....COYB!
This news has me dancing in my Living room even though Hull just scored. Everton were about to jump into an abys from which we may never return. Thank god this madness has been scuppered. Now - who is going to rise to the challenge of finding us a future home that is truly world class? I’m happy treading water till we get it right rather than drowning because we were going to get it so wrong.
DK Rejected!
http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528,11671_5720222,00.html
http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528,11671_5720222,00.html
LiverpoolEcho.co.uk
Also.. SKY Report -
THE Government has rejected the plan to create a new Everton stadium as part of a Tesco development in Kirkby.
Communities secretary John Denham decided that the projects would breach shopping policy to discourage major supermarket chains sucking business away from town and city centres.
But he was only convinced of that today, two days before he was legally obliged to make up his mind.
A major factor behind his alleged dithering was the potential to regenerate Kirkby, provide the football club with a brand spanking new stadium, pour over £400 million into the region, and create up to 7,000 short-term, long-term and supply jobs.
The decision, which will be spelt out later tomorrow took regional MPs and ministers by surprise. Most had assumed that the jobs and investment potential would, when it came to the crunch, outweigh shopping policy.
Knowsley North and Sefton East MP George Howarth said: "I deeply regret this decision in a time of significant economic challenge to the whole of Merseyside during a recession."
Also.. SKY Report -
KIRKBY HAS BEEN KNOCKED BACK
It is now understood that the Secretary of State has vetoed the plans, bringing proceedings to a halt - Sky Sports
It is now understood that the Secretary of State has vetoed the plans, bringing proceedings to a halt - Sky Sports
Hurray! The idiots who run this website have got their wish! 10 more years of underinvestment and probable relegation
Back to square one.
YES YES YES, ARE YOU WATCHING DICKIE DODD!! Now its time for the useless Kenwright to GET OUT and lets get someone with ideas running our club.
So lets see what happens now. My source say the Club will NOT be making any comment on the subject. How can that be the case. One of the most important decisions in our history and Club wont comment AT ALL!!!
Oh arent we doing well against the mighty Hull? Relegation battle starts at 8:13pm 25/11/09........just as the 3rd goal went in!!!
We’re in deep shit!!
Oh arent we doing well against the mighty Hull? Relegation battle starts at 8:13pm 25/11/09........just as the 3rd goal went in!!!
We’re in deep shit!!
To "Ste" Traverse - sell to who you muppet? Out of date stadium, no means to finance a replacement without massive debt - perhaps we could find a couple of Yanks to act as saviours?
An absolute joke. The club has been denied a golden opportunity to get a stadium it deserves and revenue/investment to compete in the higher echelons of the PL.
It seems that most people on here are just happy being in the PL and deluded that some foreign sugar daddy will come out of knowhere and invest in a club with poor infrastructure - wake up and smell the coffee - it isn’t going to happen!!!
It seems that most people on here are just happy being in the PL and deluded that some foreign sugar daddy will come out of knowhere and invest in a club with poor infrastructure - wake up and smell the coffee - it isn’t going to happen!!!
Wow Steve, so one of you have actually decided to come out of the woodwork!
Wow Mike, another one!
Great News — if it proves to be true.
Now is the time for a bit of reflection and exploring redevelopment of GP and contacting other potential partners like Bestway, Sainsburys and the other lot over the park.
It’s also about time that the took up Bradley's offer to work with the council to look at all possible alternatives.
Absolutely right Mike Rathbone, and they are also deluded if they think that Moyes will stick around while this mess is sorted out
Steve Callan; quicker Moyes goes the better
Mike you wake up and smell the coffee.
Our clueless board spent millions on ANOTHER venture that they could never EVER afford and yet people believed their lies and deceit whilst calling fellow blues and backing frauds like Wyness and co.
And I will bet my life he WILL find an investor now, dont be fooled by his lies it has happened to often now, we are a laughing stock because of him.
Our clueless board spent millions on ANOTHER venture that they could never EVER afford and yet people believed their lies and deceit whilst calling fellow blues and backing frauds like Wyness and co.
And I will bet my life he WILL find an investor now, dont be fooled by his lies it has happened to often now, we are a laughing stock because of him.
Post removed by moderators. Abuse of fellow Evertonians is not tolerated.
Steve, fucking hell mate, don’t build my hopes up. No Kirkby and no Moyes, if there is a god.......
Another joker - Moyes has been fantastic for this club and nobody should think any different - short memories have we from the cup final last year!!! With money and investment of a new stadium he could have really made a mark. Doubt he will stick around in the dinosaur era now when there will be plenty of offers from clubs with the resources to fulfil the ambition.
Ray Said & Brian Waring - oh make no mistake I am not Moyes’s biggest fan, but if he goes who do you think will take on a club with debts, no money, a shit ground and zooming towards the Championship? Oh wait! Paul Hart’s available!
So Mike, where was all this money coming from, if we had had a new stadium?
And I can see a long line of investors queuing down GR as we speak Paul - lol. As another poster said - if you are happy with obstructed views watching Championship footy then good luck - but it's not for me!!!
http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/everton-fc/everton-fc-news/2009/11/25/everton-fc-plan-for-kirkby-stadium-rejected-by-secretary-of-state-100252-25254989/
The Echo and SSN are now both reporting the demise of the project ! I for one am very happy , now lets hope the club listen to the ideas that have been put forward by KEIOC instead of sitting on their hands for another 5 years
The Echo and SSN are now both reporting the demise of the project ! I for one am very happy , now lets hope the club listen to the ideas that have been put forward by KEIOC instead of sitting on their hands for another 5 years
So Steve, whose fault is it that we are zooming towards the championship?
Hmmm... could it be the managers fault?
Hmmm... could it be the managers fault?
So Steve and Mike and Ray, enlighten us as to how Kirkby would ever give the club what it needs? Ray, I take it you are in the construction industry? I only ask as what the fuck has a few building jobs which could easily have been filled by workers the contractors brought with them from elsewhere did towards helping Everton football club?
Steve do you honestly think it’s Toffeeweb’s or KEIOC’s fault that DM had fuck all to spend this summer until he sold Lescott, if so I’d love to hear why?
Mike the poor infrastructure you mention is down to the Chairman and his board, strange they have been in that position for several years and the club is running at record debt levels, again enlighten us all as to how this is the responsibility of Toffeeweb or KEIOC?
At least Dodd has the balls to show his colours, where have you guys been during the recent debates?
Steve do you honestly think it’s Toffeeweb’s or KEIOC’s fault that DM had fuck all to spend this summer until he sold Lescott, if so I’d love to hear why?
Mike the poor infrastructure you mention is down to the Chairman and his board, strange they have been in that position for several years and the club is running at record debt levels, again enlighten us all as to how this is the responsibility of Toffeeweb or KEIOC?
At least Dodd has the balls to show his colours, where have you guys been during the recent debates?
Steve if it wasnt for the daylight robbery at Pompey and West Ham where would we be now?
He has done a great job for us but is he doing one now?
We have a strong team out and yet he has Rodwell wide right FFS clueless.
He has done a great job for us but is he doing one now?
We have a strong team out and yet he has Rodwell wide right FFS clueless.
Taxi for the whole fuckin board, Moyes & about 6 first team players
3-0 down to fuckin Hull at half time
Championship here we come - This is bad, very bad
3-0 down to fuckin Hull at half time
Championship here we come - This is bad, very bad
Tom Campbell - KEIOC never had any plans, just white elephants to distract people thinking there was something better, it was proved on numerous occasions that the Loop idea was a joke, and we can’t afford anything else.
I hope you are all really happy now - we won’t end up in the Championship as a lack of decent ground won’t hit us that hard, but neither will be ever be able to compete with those at the top either.
Goodison isn’t a long-term option and we have no money - that was why there was no plan B, because there isn’t one.
I hope you are all really happy now - we won’t end up in the Championship as a lack of decent ground won’t hit us that hard, but neither will be ever be able to compete with those at the top either.
Goodison isn’t a long-term option and we have no money - that was why there was no plan B, because there isn’t one.
Steve Callan; I dont know who we would get in if Moyes went but personally i would want someone that sends out a team to pass the ball to each other and actually attacks the opposition-especially at home. This dour, boring bastard cant put a team out to play football. Watching Moyes team sometimes makes me want to poke my eyes out.
Putting it in basic terms Brian no investor wants to have to find money for a new stadium before they even contemplate transfer outlays. Your talking hundreds of millions of pounds and thats even assuming planning permision is granted.
If we had got Kirkby then I believe we would have been of huge appeal for investors - they can increase revenue through naming rights, increased sponsorship, capacity etc...etc... It’s not rocket science at the end of the day!!!
If we had got Kirkby then I believe we would have been of huge appeal for investors - they can increase revenue through naming rights, increased sponsorship, capacity etc...etc... It’s not rocket science at the end of the day!!!
Mike who told you nobody wants to buy us? men who told us ringfenced and virtually free.
How long have you supported Everton? surely now after this latest bullshit lying debacle you should know not to believe anything that board tells us.
How long have you supported Everton? surely now after this latest bullshit lying debacle you should know not to believe anything that board tells us.
Ray .
What about Matinez at Wigan. Or has the nine one thrashing put us all off him now?
What about Matinez at Wigan. Or has the nine one thrashing put us all off him now?
One question, if we had moved to Kirkby, where was all this money coming from for new players etc?
Well done KEIOC, over to you.
There will be one less on the attendance from now on, I am not willing to spend any more money on a club going nowhere. NO STADIUM = NO INVESTMENT, END OF!!!
Good luck KEIOC, I hope when all this blows over and you have successfully provided our club with a ’Plan B’ you find another good cause on which to excercise your millitant values.
There will be one less on the attendance from now on, I am not willing to spend any more money on a club going nowhere. NO STADIUM = NO INVESTMENT, END OF!!!
Good luck KEIOC, I hope when all this blows over and you have successfully provided our club with a ’Plan B’ you find another good cause on which to excercise your millitant values.
Excuse my language, but
FUCK KEIOC and FUCK all the luddites who whinged and moaned and complained.
Hooray, we get to stay at a stadium where only one stand has direct sightlines, the seats are still wooden and public transport is a total nightmare. But it’s ok we’re not moving 4 miles away. We’ll get to slide into more and more debt and be totally unable to compete. But I forget it’s all Bullshit Billy’s fault, because there are a stream of benevolent billionaires desperately begging to buy Everton and make us the new Chelsea or Man City and it’s all Kenwright refusing to sell up and embezzling funds. Yeah that’s the one
Now by staying at Goodison we’ll rake in the cash
I know my history, I love my history, and I love my club and want what’s best for it. This pathetic celebration of the start of the slide into bankruptcy and the championship is not something i’m going to revel in though.
Fuck all of you who brought this upon us
FUCK KEIOC and FUCK all the luddites who whinged and moaned and complained.
Hooray, we get to stay at a stadium where only one stand has direct sightlines, the seats are still wooden and public transport is a total nightmare. But it’s ok we’re not moving 4 miles away. We’ll get to slide into more and more debt and be totally unable to compete. But I forget it’s all Bullshit Billy’s fault, because there are a stream of benevolent billionaires desperately begging to buy Everton and make us the new Chelsea or Man City and it’s all Kenwright refusing to sell up and embezzling funds. Yeah that’s the one
Now by staying at Goodison we’ll rake in the cash
I know my history, I love my history, and I love my club and want what’s best for it. This pathetic celebration of the start of the slide into bankruptcy and the championship is not something i’m going to revel in though.
Fuck all of you who brought this upon us
How come Yes fans are coming on here slagging no voters when the people who should be getting it are the men who have failed again?
They put money and time into a plan that was flawed and full of lies from the start, they should be chased out of that ground on saturday.
Spot on Mick Rathbone. And it’s not just who will want to buy us but what they do when they get the club. In case you all lhaven’t noticed there are more dickheads out there screwing up clubs than "white knights" saving them. And before Paul Gladwell asks, I’ve been supporting them for 41 years.
Tragic night for Everton, both on and off the pitch..The only way is down.
Sorry Sunday
Brian where is it coming from now?
No, I am not in the construction business but I care about merseyside (term chosen carefully). I live away from Liverpool now and the only tickets I can get are ones that give me neck ache or I run the risk of getting my head kicked in at away matches. At the moment I am watching EFC getting thumped by Hull for God’s sake on a dodgy internet connection. Everton need to move forward and that is it, Moyes and Kenwright are at least trying...KEIOC and the Liverpool Council are just trying to drag us back and down,
James/Tony have a look at yourself, only people to blame are the idiots at the club who ignored all the advice in the first place and tried to dupe the fans with bullshit.
Also, I am like you mate still pissed of that the same people at the club fucked up the kings dock.
so vent your anger at the people responsible
Also, I am like you mate still pissed of that the same people at the club fucked up the kings dock.
so vent your anger at the people responsible
Fucking pricks the lot of you who are made up about DK bein rejected! What now? Who’s goin to want to invest when they have to shell out 100s of millions on a new ground? Only chance of investement and new owner would have been if DK was approved. How long is Moyles going to stay without investment? How long will the good players like jags, Arteta, Pienaar and Rodwell stay without investment? I’ve never felt so pissed off since the Kings Dock fell through. All we need now is some knob head to suggest sharing with the redshite!!
First of all, how lovely to read the infantile squawks from the pro Kirkby camp. Just like toddlers in a supermarket. "want sweets NOW, mummy. Waaah."
Splendid. Let’s have a bit more.
Second, it isn’t official yet, so let’s not get too excited.
Splendid. Let’s have a bit more.
Second, it isn’t official yet, so let’s not get too excited.
Hopefully this is one we can all agree on - that knobhead Warren "I love Everton" Bradley at the City Council should pull his finger out. email him and ask what he intends to do now to help Everton at warren.bradley@liverpool.gov.uk
Phil and who was the blame for The Kings Dock? the fans?
You are coming on here calling fellow blues pricks for thinking a different view to you, yet the people are to blame for this are the board end of, they should be strung up for the divide they have caused alone.
You are coming on here calling fellow blues pricks for thinking a different view to you, yet the people are to blame for this are the board end of, they should be strung up for the divide they have caused alone.
Always been against this mad plan but tonight is not for sticking the boot in. All Evertonians have to recognise that this shambles does damage to us all, because thanks to Wyness and his cronies there is no plan B. The fact that DK was wrong has been borne out in the govt decision but it was always wrong with or without "official recignition".
The yes voters always had a point and a right to defend their arguement but the NO voters shouldn’t accept any of the blame which will now be heaped on them.
Tonight might just be one of those turning points in our history. I put a tenner on us at 70-1 with Paddypower to turn it round at Hull.
The pro-Kirkby bleaters moaning on here - you are missing the poit entirely. Read the Echo article as to why it was rejected. I’ll help you out.
Retail
The plan was flawed from day 1 because the retail element - originally the ’enabler’ for the stadium but latterly vice versa - did not meet with ANY of the Regional Spacial Strategy criteria. On the first day of the Inquiry, Tesco admitted it, and their whole case was based around over-ruling the RSS on the basis of regeneration and job creation.
The stadium was always a secondary issue.
I am an out and out KEIOC supporter, but attributing the rejection entirely at the door of KEIOC is frankly ridiculous. You should be turning your attention and anger on the people who led Everton into this and lied to win the vote.
I’m celebrating, and praying we get the equaliser to make it a truly super night!
Retail
The plan was flawed from day 1 because the retail element - originally the ’enabler’ for the stadium but latterly vice versa - did not meet with ANY of the Regional Spacial Strategy criteria. On the first day of the Inquiry, Tesco admitted it, and their whole case was based around over-ruling the RSS on the basis of regeneration and job creation.
The stadium was always a secondary issue.
I am an out and out KEIOC supporter, but attributing the rejection entirely at the door of KEIOC is frankly ridiculous. You should be turning your attention and anger on the people who led Everton into this and lied to win the vote.
I’m celebrating, and praying we get the equaliser to make it a truly super night!
2-3 get in
Listen, do you honestly think the secutary of state gives a shit about the views of the KEIOC or any no voter. This project was rejected as it was a totally shit proposal that fell foul of every piece of planning law in this land. It is not KEIOC’s fault that there is no plan B. For a business any business in the world, from a multinational to a corner shop not to have plan b is a disgrace. This is a mess of Bill Kenwrights making. As was the Kings Dock and the fact we are in record level of debt. I am worried about the future of Everton, but I honestly believe whether we went to Kirkby or not we were fucked.
We would have had to get more debt to pay for it (as believe it or not it wasn’t free) and we all know it would only generate £6 million a year if it was sold out week in week out. Hardly the goose that lays the golden egg. We are truely in a lose/lose position and after 20 years of failure to invest in Goodison we are paying the price. Remind me of the name of that bloke on the board for 20 years and now chairman. Oh yes Kenwright. Do not blame KEIOC or no voters this is one man’s failure.
We would have had to get more debt to pay for it (as believe it or not it wasn’t free) and we all know it would only generate £6 million a year if it was sold out week in week out. Hardly the goose that lays the golden egg. We are truely in a lose/lose position and after 20 years of failure to invest in Goodison we are paying the price. Remind me of the name of that bloke on the board for 20 years and now chairman. Oh yes Kenwright. Do not blame KEIOC or no voters this is one man’s failure.
Fair enough that the planning case for Kirkby may have been a challenge but KEIOC did not help and had nothing but negative arguments. The fact is EFC are skint and the Tesco deal had the prospect of giving us a new stadium and moving us forward.
YES!!!!!!!!!!!!
So pleased. This was just never the answer. it would have caused more problems than it solved and ripped the heart and soul out of Everton. It simply was not good enough, in design, location, transport, and ultimately revenue generation.
So pleased. This was just never the answer. it would have caused more problems than it solved and ripped the heart and soul out of Everton. It simply was not good enough, in design, location, transport, and ultimately revenue generation.
Simply, thank fuck for that.
Personally I hope that it does not spell the end for Moyes... but I hope that it does spell the end for Kenwright for pushing on with this flawed scheme.
More than happy to take the shit from those who feel that this shit heap scheme would have benefited Everton. Not the board, not the "investors", not the whiny "but I want a new stadium" bunch - but Everton FC.
Of course our predicament is not ideal - but it’s a fuck load better than shipping out to a location which would have not paid off until all the shit that was wrong could have possibly/hopefully been sorted.
Thank you to all those who could see beyond the glossy brochure and sound bites, those who’ve invested their precious time into fighting this - KEIOC.
Personally I hope that it does not spell the end for Moyes... but I hope that it does spell the end for Kenwright for pushing on with this flawed scheme.
More than happy to take the shit from those who feel that this shit heap scheme would have benefited Everton. Not the board, not the "investors", not the whiny "but I want a new stadium" bunch - but Everton FC.
Of course our predicament is not ideal - but it’s a fuck load better than shipping out to a location which would have not paid off until all the shit that was wrong could have possibly/hopefully been sorted.
Thank you to all those who could see beyond the glossy brochure and sound bites, those who’ve invested their precious time into fighting this - KEIOC.
My company does demolition work and civil engineering - the word the developers had was that it vwas goin ahead. Hopefully not! The reality and vagueness of the proposal lost lots of people.
If Clown Kenwright and hiscohrot of nob eads had any sense they would have a plan B - so no fukin chance there of a plan B bein in place. Lets hope Clown Kenwright take a long walk back to cuckoo land and never comes back.
If Clown Kenwright and hiscohrot of nob eads had any sense they would have a plan B - so no fukin chance there of a plan B bein in place. Lets hope Clown Kenwright take a long walk back to cuckoo land and never comes back.
I can not believe the vitriol from pro Kirkby blues on here. I stopped reading toffeeweb for a while after the whole ground rage thing was clearly tearing the fan base in two.
I then started reading toffeeweb again but didn’t sign up but have having read some of the crap above.
toffeeweb is a great forum, gives us all the opportunity to voice our opinion. sure sometimes it gets a bit heated due to the passion we feel for ’our’ club.
I was anti-kirkby and am ecstatic with the news, to be confirmed. However I am not anti ground move and I don’t think KEIOC are either, if pro-kirkby fans have visited their website they would realise that within a few clicks.
Without support from the local media they have done a fantastic job and we should be proud of them, and the common sense that has prevailed, not least some awful planning!
Now what of our Board, custodians of the club, leaders off the pitch, take a bow... and give US plan B, it’s your duty as a Director!
I then started reading toffeeweb again but didn’t sign up but have having read some of the crap above.
toffeeweb is a great forum, gives us all the opportunity to voice our opinion. sure sometimes it gets a bit heated due to the passion we feel for ’our’ club.
I was anti-kirkby and am ecstatic with the news, to be confirmed. However I am not anti ground move and I don’t think KEIOC are either, if pro-kirkby fans have visited their website they would realise that within a few clicks.
Without support from the local media they have done a fantastic job and we should be proud of them, and the common sense that has prevailed, not least some awful planning!
Now what of our Board, custodians of the club, leaders off the pitch, take a bow... and give US plan B, it’s your duty as a Director!
I was against the Kirkby idea but I just don’t feel it in me to celebrate it.
I think the whole thing just added itself to the woeful list of disaters of the Kenwright’s legacy.
I think Everton and Tesco will now re-adjust their plans to try and suit the government, Kenwright is hell bent on getting us there. More time and money to be wasted.
I think the whole thing just added itself to the woeful list of disaters of the Kenwright’s legacy.
I think Everton and Tesco will now re-adjust their plans to try and suit the government, Kenwright is hell bent on getting us there. More time and money to be wasted.
Thats it, Moyes and Rodwell will be going to Man United at the end of this season leaving Everton nothing but "history". I am off to watch my local non league side this coming Saturday and I am deleting this site from my favourites.
Why does everybody keep going on about a plan B. How many other clubs have a plan B- I’ll tell you - NONE.
no-one has a plan B becuase they put all their effort into plan A until it is either complete or falls down.
Liverpool don’t have a plan B, Arsenal didn’t, Portsmouth don’t.
For goodness sake, it’s hard enough trying to find one viable option let alone 3 or 4 others to fall back on if that fails.
Oh and noone is saying that KEIOC are responsible for Kirkby failing (although they certainly didn’t help and did a pretty good job at dividing the supporters), but I find it fairly laughable that Everton supporters can be so keen for a project to fail, knowing that there aren’t any other options available. surely a supporter of Everton wants what is best for Everton whatever that option may be - and I doubt its to continue for x years in a ever increasingly out of date & declining stadium!
no-one has a plan B becuase they put all their effort into plan A until it is either complete or falls down.
Liverpool don’t have a plan B, Arsenal didn’t, Portsmouth don’t.
For goodness sake, it’s hard enough trying to find one viable option let alone 3 or 4 others to fall back on if that fails.
Oh and noone is saying that KEIOC are responsible for Kirkby failing (although they certainly didn’t help and did a pretty good job at dividing the supporters), but I find it fairly laughable that Everton supporters can be so keen for a project to fail, knowing that there aren’t any other options available. surely a supporter of Everton wants what is best for Everton whatever that option may be - and I doubt its to continue for x years in a ever increasingly out of date & declining stadium!
Ray Thompson, which one of the government’s reasons for why DK was not worth doing, leads you to stop supporting Everton?
Ray Thompson, do you really believe that they would have Moyes churning out dour shite at Old Trafford? They are more than welcome to him.
On a bad night on the field we get the best possible news off of it. The whole Kirby thing was like a bad dream from which we’ve now awakened. With Kenwright and his cronies holding out for a big pay day. It now looks as though they’ll have to invest or sell up hopefully the latter.
Bill; watch this space.....
NO.
NO.
I hope the "ringpiece" releases the "ringfenced" money now for Messi in Januarys transfer window...
The reasons why Kirkby has been rejected by politicians are as relevant as reasons King’s Dock was allowed to fail and LFC were given permission to build on an inner city greenspace. I am just pig sick that Everton have been knocked back again. I will always support Everton but just maybe standing, watching a game with a steaming cup of tea in my hand will re-ignite some forgotten simple pleasures.
I’m sure you pro lads think the anti have been knocking Kirkby just out of spite. I was never taken in by the glossy brochure spin, but have looked at every arguement for and against, have done a bit of homework myself, and came to the conclusion that it was a bad idea.
Fuck this cant be arsed spending any more of my hard erned on a club with no money no ambition and no fucking idea where its going, What is the use of watching footie if the team you are supporting has no chance of winning and will always be one of the also rans not even the best of the rest.
Kirkby - it was "better" for Everton, if not the "best".
And I think we all agree, we still strive to live by the slogan Nil Satis Nisi Optimum at the club.
Even the staunchest pro-Kirkby’ers will admit that Kirkby wasn’t perfect. Now that it’s dead in the water, Kenwright has no choice but to sell up ASAP as he has put every single one of his eggs into the one basket on this one.
And I think we all agree, we still strive to live by the slogan Nil Satis Nisi Optimum at the club.
Even the staunchest pro-Kirkby’ers will admit that Kirkby wasn’t perfect. Now that it’s dead in the water, Kenwright has no choice but to sell up ASAP as he has put every single one of his eggs into the one basket on this one.
Until the news Kirkby was rejected I was angry with our board for the DK project. I wasn’t calling fellow blues who voted yes "pricks" I was against it, but IMO for valid reasons.
KEIOC made information available the club didn’t want you to see. Your criticism is mis-directed.
We all want what’s best for the club.
COYB
KEIOC made information available the club didn’t want you to see. Your criticism is mis-directed.
We all want what’s best for the club.
COYB
I don’t understand all the hostility. So we can’t beat Stoke/Wolves/Hull/Burnley/Bolton. So we get taken apart twice by the 3rd best team in Portugal. So we have no present viable options for a new stadium. I personally have been binge drinking & celebrating since we won the MLS All-Stars Cup. I don’t know if anybody else realizes this, but my co-worker’s imaginary friend’s groin-masseuse assures us that winning that trophy guarantees entry into the group stage of next season’s Champions League. None of our squad is actually injured - they are merely resting for next season’s climatic battle.
In all seriousness, it’s time to be sensible about this - groundshare is the ONLY way to go for us. Let’s not wait until some oil sheik buys that shower across the park out & finances a stadium all by his lonesome. The answer is a state of the art shared stadium & we have to get it moving NOW. Paint the seats white/black/purple/some neutral color. Use an outside lighting scheme like Bayern/1860 Munich use, or the new Meadowlands NFL stadium in America will use, where the exterior varies depending upon who is playing. These two clubs & the city they share don’t currently have the currency to finance two new, redundant stadia. One top-notch edifice would go over much better for everybody, including the city council.
In all seriousness, it’s time to be sensible about this - groundshare is the ONLY way to go for us. Let’s not wait until some oil sheik buys that shower across the park out & finances a stadium all by his lonesome. The answer is a state of the art shared stadium & we have to get it moving NOW. Paint the seats white/black/purple/some neutral color. Use an outside lighting scheme like Bayern/1860 Munich use, or the new Meadowlands NFL stadium in America will use, where the exterior varies depending upon who is playing. These two clubs & the city they share don’t currently have the currency to finance two new, redundant stadia. One top-notch edifice would go over much better for everybody, including the city council.
At the end of the day, KEIOC did jack shit to get it rejected.
It was rejected on the grounds of a supermarket taking business away from town centres.
It was rejected on the grounds of a supermarket taking business away from town centres.
Everton got beat and I have a smile on my face.
Long live the king,
Long live the king,
A big thanks to the guys at KEIOC for all your efforts and personal time put into this. I’m just grateful there were people around to get off their arses and expose this white elephant for what it was. The consequences should it have gone ahead don’t bear thinking about
Maybe attentions can now be turned to exposing Kenwright for the charlatan that he is
Maybe attentions can now be turned to exposing Kenwright for the charlatan that he is
Michael
Can you now do what you should have done 12 months ago and start a series of threads to put KEIOC and all those against DK under the microscope - and so encourage them to present us with what we didn’t know we were all missing.
If you deem yourself to be an honest and responsible professional I suggest you start putting them through the same ’grinder’ you used on pro DK brigade - i.e. provide the facts to back up the arguments.
Otherwise you will start giving the impression that your website is not as impartial as it claims to be, and certainly ought to be. Failure to do so will simply alienate a large number of honest Evertonians - and not only DK supporters.
Can you now do what you should have done 12 months ago and start a series of threads to put KEIOC and all those against DK under the microscope - and so encourage them to present us with what we didn’t know we were all missing.
If you deem yourself to be an honest and responsible professional I suggest you start putting them through the same ’grinder’ you used on pro DK brigade - i.e. provide the facts to back up the arguments.
Otherwise you will start giving the impression that your website is not as impartial as it claims to be, and certainly ought to be. Failure to do so will simply alienate a large number of honest Evertonians - and not only DK supporters.
Hallelujah !
I thought having read some of the comments this was the website for the "flat earth society". Great not to move out of an embarrasing stadium, no clear views, no investment and shite clubs like Reading with a better stadium? And you think its great? Pathetic.
KEIOC were not elected and are a tiny minority with big gobs. I don't want to be in a ground that looks like a national trust site. We are falling further behind because of attitudes like KEIOC with the stupid plan to build a new stadium on Scotland Road, really? It's embarrassing.
Also, whilst on my soapbox, Moyes is a wanker and we the fans need to push him out asap. Negative, clueless and taking us nowhere... I ain't grateful for a poxy Wembley trip. Attacking football and a lot less games such as tonight is what we deserve; fantastic fans, brilliant away support, crap manager.
Finally, I ain't no fan of BK but look at the cost of our team against some of the crap we have been beaten by this year — Burnley, Hull etc... It's Moyes — let's get him out!
Strange that the one man who did his level best to find a stadium we could afford is blamed for not succeeding.
I am one of thousands who now look to KEIOC or other No voters including those at Toffeeweb Towers to please explain in plain English what is their alternative and most importantly how it will be financed.
One without the other is a waste of breath.
I am one of thousands who now look to KEIOC or other No voters including those at Toffeeweb Towers to please explain in plain English what is their alternative and most importantly how it will be financed.
One without the other is a waste of breath.
When all the celebrations are over we will now have to face reallity and I will not be surprised that Bill Kenwright will now depart Everton along with Dave Moyes but before that happens he will most probably sell off the assets Rodwell to Chelsea in January with Arteta, Pienaar, Jaqielka,Fellani following close behind .There will be no signings coming in January and I don’t blame him one bit EVERTON are on the way down so get read for league one football see you all at Norwich and Southhampton.Yes a big thanks to KEIOC.
Victor, we don’t need to present any facts. The fact that it has been kicked into touch, thats the only fact that matters.
Also Victor, if you were to go onto KEIOC’s website, you will find all you need to know there, shame the same couldn’t be said of the clubs official site.
Well...a victory it would seem (i’m sure theres appeal and arbitration allowed but if its definitely a no...then ’phew’);.
On the other hand...WHAT THE FUCK HAPPENS NOW?
On the other hand...WHAT THE FUCK HAPPENS NOW?
it was just a fake,make no mistake,a rip-off for you but a Rolls for him!
Ahhh, I am with it now, this site belongs to the KEIOC ludites. I will stick to Blue Kipper. Bye.
See you then Ray!!!!
Brian
You sound smug. About what I don’t know because now is where the hard work starts for all Evertonians, and you and the rest of the anti-DK brigade have to finally get your act together. DK is over - in that sense you can claim victory. But you now have it all to do my friend. I am waiting... BTW I was not necessarily pro-DK, I am simply against those who spend too much time blowing holes as opposed to offering anything creative, workable and affordable. A question Brian... where do we start from here in your opinion?
You sound smug. About what I don’t know because now is where the hard work starts for all Evertonians, and you and the rest of the anti-DK brigade have to finally get your act together. DK is over - in that sense you can claim victory. But you now have it all to do my friend. I am waiting... BTW I was not necessarily pro-DK, I am simply against those who spend too much time blowing holes as opposed to offering anything creative, workable and affordable. A question Brian... where do we start from here in your opinion?
Now the decision has been made, is not where the fans now unite? Surely the difference in opinion no longer matters, we all Evertonians in the same boat. I am just as happy about this as the deicison, surely now we can all look forward to finding and enjoying a stadium we all like.
Frank-interesting you should mention Southampton. New stadium. How’s their investment. How’s the rich Arab sugar daddy whose dying to buy these clubs with new grounds. Kirkby was a white elephant, It was bullshit from start to finish. I’m not a fan of KEIOC but atleast they provided a counter argument as allowed by a demorcratic society. Did the club offer anything. No. Any to all the name callers on here I think the pro kirkbites are all guillable twats who will lick kenwrights arse whatever. See name calling doesn’t help anyone.
Alex- Well said. Now we need to move forward together, it really is the only way,
Alex
Can you elaborate on your point please - i.e. which stadium exactly?
Can you elaborate on your point please - i.e. which stadium exactly?
I AM RELIEVED, But can I ask everyone to calm down, I don’t care if you voted Yes or No, in the end our votes were meaningless. What matters is that the board could not bring this scheme to fruition; they have failed to solve the stadium problem again.
Don’t let Bill hang on for a hat-trick.
Don’t let Bill hang on for a hat-trick.
Victor,it’s the job of Kenwright and Co to work out where we go from here. Also, I’m not smug, and don’t class it as a victory, although the amount of abuse that is being directed at anyone anti - Kirkby, maybe I should feel smug, but at the end of the day, Kirkby was the wrong thing to do, as has been proven,by it being kicked out.
Ray - don’t go, although at times I feel that way myself.
The ground relocation issue has to raise the most basic of insticts. Territory, identity. Nothing wrong with that. And I would have no objection at all to KEIOC’s campaign, had they only had the courage to call themselves ’Keep Everton In Liverpool’ or Walton, or somesuch. The "L" word, of course, could never be mentioned, so proud of the city are they.
GP will be closed down by public health authorities (and hoepfully the distributers of communicable infections which surround it) in a few years.
Chester, anyone?
The ground relocation issue has to raise the most basic of insticts. Territory, identity. Nothing wrong with that. And I would have no objection at all to KEIOC’s campaign, had they only had the courage to call themselves ’Keep Everton In Liverpool’ or Walton, or somesuch. The "L" word, of course, could never be mentioned, so proud of the city are they.
GP will be closed down by public health authorities (and hoepfully the distributers of communicable infections which surround it) in a few years.
Chester, anyone?
Brian
Why were you (and be honest with me) against Kirby in the first place?
Why were you (and be honest with me) against Kirby in the first place?
Chris,Thanks for your response however I am afraid moving forward is unfortunatly not the direction Everton will be going in .Note no foul language in response "
The reason i ask is that you obviously feel you have the right to intervene when you are against the plans of the Board, but nonetheless eschew the right to present how the Board may move forward with its new plans. That is what I dislike about your position. You are big on blowing holes if you don’t like what you see, but do not offer anything creative and watertight in return. Nothing would please me more if you could just commit yourself the other way.
Oh my god!
I cant believe all the people coming here and blaming KEIOC for all this when the whole shambles and the people responsible for it have been in full sight pretty much the whole time!
In what way am I a Luddite because I thought Kirkby was a step backwards and not fitting for our great club?
Can someone from the pro side offer concrete examples and explain in detail from just what effect KEIOC has had on the whole decision?
At what level of the inquiry has their influence reached? What a load of rubbish!
They get a pat on the back from Me and a round of drinks if I ever meet them after a match because it is thanks to them, as a nornal everyday fan, I have had an opportunity to see the terriible flaws and problems with the whole debacle that meant the government HAD to call in and reject the project. KEIOC havent created these issues! The Everton Board have created these problems.
The reason the plan has been rejected is Tesco and The Boards fault.
The reason we dont have a plan b is the boards fault.
The reason Goodison is in disrepair is the boards fault.
Either of the second two things alone are for Me enough for a vote of no confidence.
The scheme is/was a joke and it is all there to see if You have a look.
Angrily slating and suggesting that KEOIC come up with an alternative when our own club custodians havent even tried to do it is utterly ridiculous as far as Im concerned.
I cant believe all the people coming here and blaming KEIOC for all this when the whole shambles and the people responsible for it have been in full sight pretty much the whole time!
In what way am I a Luddite because I thought Kirkby was a step backwards and not fitting for our great club?
Can someone from the pro side offer concrete examples and explain in detail from just what effect KEIOC has had on the whole decision?
At what level of the inquiry has their influence reached? What a load of rubbish!
They get a pat on the back from Me and a round of drinks if I ever meet them after a match because it is thanks to them, as a nornal everyday fan, I have had an opportunity to see the terriible flaws and problems with the whole debacle that meant the government HAD to call in and reject the project. KEIOC havent created these issues! The Everton Board have created these problems.
The reason the plan has been rejected is Tesco and The Boards fault.
The reason we dont have a plan b is the boards fault.
The reason Goodison is in disrepair is the boards fault.
Either of the second two things alone are for Me enough for a vote of no confidence.
The scheme is/was a joke and it is all there to see if You have a look.
Angrily slating and suggesting that KEOIC come up with an alternative when our own club custodians havent even tried to do it is utterly ridiculous as far as Im concerned.
If it has an ’L’ in the postcode & an established transport link then that is a viable site for a ground. However that is a total step down from what the club deserves, which is a place in the city of Liverpool, as a founder of the football leagues, as a massive piece of the citys history & not to be remembered as the club that once played in Liverpool where Goodison Close, Goodison Ave, Gwladys Appartments are!
Joint stadium idiots!
Joint stadium idiots!
Frank- you are right and I apologise for my language.
Wayne, have we got £150mil to go halves?
Victor, I didn’t intervene on the board, I had an opinion on why I thought it was a bad move. It had nothing to do with boundaries or pubs etc, I am originally from Huyton in Knowsley, but still class it as Liverpool. It was about a shite stadium, it was about being Tesco’s lapdog, I was worried about putting more debt on top of our existing debt, It was about all the bullshit coming from the club, deal of the century etc, it all sounded to good to be true, and it turned out to be. I didn’t trust the people involved with our clubs future.
I’ll be honest Victor, I don’t know where we should go from here, but as I say, that is down to BK and Co.
In my opinion, I feel we have had a narrow escape.
I’ll be honest Victor, I don’t know where we should go from here, but as I say, that is down to BK and Co.
In my opinion, I feel we have had a narrow escape.
Victor.
Brian and many others were against it because it was not good enough.
* The location would have been a nightmare to attend with very poor public transport links and a 2 mile no parking zone around the stadium
* The cost was probably going to be approaching £100m with very little likely upturn in profit - needed 47,000 average crowds to give Moyes £6m a season
* Design of stadium was poor. No ’Home End’, no character, fans too far from pitch, open corners.
* Move was clearly going to split fan base after only 35,000 were given the vote - the club estimates 900,000 Evertonians worldwide and whilst not all should vote, more than 35,000 attend matches.
* Location was away from traditional fanbase and in an ara with no real character, facilities or culture. Matchday experience was going to be too drastically altered.
Now, Brian can speak for himself, but many of us worked out the above in 2007 even before the vote and ever since as time has gone on, more has emerged to prove us right.
We all acknowledge something needs to be done with Goodison or a new Stadium, but DK did not stack up.... and that’s without any other issues of lack of trust in any Board member, puppet Chairman etc, etc
Brian and many others were against it because it was not good enough.
* The location would have been a nightmare to attend with very poor public transport links and a 2 mile no parking zone around the stadium
* The cost was probably going to be approaching £100m with very little likely upturn in profit - needed 47,000 average crowds to give Moyes £6m a season
* Design of stadium was poor. No ’Home End’, no character, fans too far from pitch, open corners.
* Move was clearly going to split fan base after only 35,000 were given the vote - the club estimates 900,000 Evertonians worldwide and whilst not all should vote, more than 35,000 attend matches.
* Location was away from traditional fanbase and in an ara with no real character, facilities or culture. Matchday experience was going to be too drastically altered.
Now, Brian can speak for himself, but many of us worked out the above in 2007 even before the vote and ever since as time has gone on, more has emerged to prove us right.
We all acknowledge something needs to be done with Goodison or a new Stadium, but DK did not stack up.... and that’s without any other issues of lack of trust in any Board member, puppet Chairman etc, etc
Do you think BK should sell up and leave, or would you give him carte blanche to continue at the helm?
If true, now we will face the cold harsh reality of not being able to afford much in the way of an upgrade to GP and nothing in the way of an alternative new stadium. It may or may not be a good thing, but there will be little if anything in the way of a transfer kitty and Moyes will surely be gone soon enough.
I pray that a rich and decent new owner appears now to rescue us, but we are hardly an attractive proposition with an expensive new ground being item number one on the list. Let’s hope so anyway, as we need the money and we need someone else to take on the club now from Kenwright.
Hopefully with our Red friends crashing around disastrously too, sense will finally prevail in terms of a groundshare. That would at least be a very positive outcome out of what otherwise could go down as a day marking a major acceleration in our decline.
I pray that a rich and decent new owner appears now to rescue us, but we are hardly an attractive proposition with an expensive new ground being item number one on the list. Let’s hope so anyway, as we need the money and we need someone else to take on the club now from Kenwright.
Hopefully with our Red friends crashing around disastrously too, sense will finally prevail in terms of a groundshare. That would at least be a very positive outcome out of what otherwise could go down as a day marking a major acceleration in our decline.
Karl
I am not pro-DK necessarily. I am merely asking why, when it comes to our future, nobody seems willing to offer an opinion other than ’Kirby was shite’. For a start, do you think there should be an orchestrated campaign to drive BK out of the club now that his plans have failed? Or would you give him another go?
I am not pro-DK necessarily. I am merely asking why, when it comes to our future, nobody seems willing to offer an opinion other than ’Kirby was shite’. For a start, do you think there should be an orchestrated campaign to drive BK out of the club now that his plans have failed? Or would you give him another go?
Yes, Neil, it might. On the other hand it might just be the day we avoided an almighty disaster.
I am not dancing in the streets, I am just relieved and now demand our Board do the following.
Openly communicate with the fans and explore / open dialogue / apologise in some cases with other parties who may be able to assist in taking us forward such as LCC, LFC, Bestway, Tesco (yes, there still may be another development of theirs that would be more suitable than Kirkby), Peel Holdings etc.
I am sad that this whole episode has been one almighty PR Fuck up by Everton - again!!!!!
I am not dancing in the streets, I am just relieved and now demand our Board do the following.
Openly communicate with the fans and explore / open dialogue / apologise in some cases with other parties who may be able to assist in taking us forward such as LCC, LFC, Bestway, Tesco (yes, there still may be another development of theirs that would be more suitable than Kirkby), Peel Holdings etc.
I am sad that this whole episode has been one almighty PR Fuck up by Everton - again!!!!!
Is Kenwright actually in charge at the club, or is it the 2 shadowy figures in the background?
Bad idea, poor stadium, wrong location
Simple as that
Richard Dodd...I have in on the best authority that you and your impeccable sources were completely wrong
All those posting above who’ve never posted pro-Kirkby before and especially Gerrard Madden/Rupert Tarlington and all your other aliases - Up yours!
Now, sanity has prevailed, make this shameful excuse for a Board of directors do its job
Quo vadis, Bill?
Simple as that
Richard Dodd...I have in on the best authority that you and your impeccable sources were completely wrong
All those posting above who’ve never posted pro-Kirkby before and especially Gerrard Madden/Rupert Tarlington and all your other aliases - Up yours!
Now, sanity has prevailed, make this shameful excuse for a Board of directors do its job
Quo vadis, Bill?
Karl
Are you saying that you still trust BK to drive us forward despite the calamity that is DK?
Are you saying that you still trust BK to drive us forward despite the calamity that is DK?
Victor.
I posted some ideas on here a couple of weeks back in Richard Dodd’s marathon 246 replies article entitled ’ What if’ about raising money to redevelop Goodison.
My opinion is that a phased redevelopment of Goodison has to be the Plan now and should have been started 10-15 years ago. It’s what just about every other Club has been doing since Hillsborough.
Should another investor / owner or opportunty to mve or ground share then come along we can look at it then.
As for BK, I am not for running him out of town. However, he has to accept that any Investor will want a say in how things are run, and will possibly want to be in charge. If BK does not have any substantial money, what else does he really expect?
After the dust settles, this should be a time for looking forward and starting again and all of us uniting in finding a decent solution to this issue.
I posted some ideas on here a couple of weeks back in Richard Dodd’s marathon 246 replies article entitled ’ What if’ about raising money to redevelop Goodison.
My opinion is that a phased redevelopment of Goodison has to be the Plan now and should have been started 10-15 years ago. It’s what just about every other Club has been doing since Hillsborough.
Should another investor / owner or opportunty to mve or ground share then come along we can look at it then.
As for BK, I am not for running him out of town. However, he has to accept that any Investor will want a say in how things are run, and will possibly want to be in charge. If BK does not have any substantial money, what else does he really expect?
After the dust settles, this should be a time for looking forward and starting again and all of us uniting in finding a decent solution to this issue.
The level of argument advanced by Kirkby supporters is really quite tragic..
No wonder they voted yes..
sad.
No wonder they voted yes..
sad.
Ciaran
Argument for what exactly?
Argument for what exactly?
I wouldn’t bother explaining anything to people like victor..He thinks the right to object on a factual and critical basis, must be accompanied with an workable alternative...in order to be justifiable.
Good one Victor...
Good one Victor...
The argument for this rejection being a bad thing for Everton...........
Oh, and if you want to know where we go from here Victor?
Well, telling the truth would be a good fucking start.
Can you tell I’m happy?
Oh, and if you want to know where we go from here Victor?
Well, telling the truth would be a good fucking start.
Can you tell I’m happy?
Interesting to see the Everton PR guys (guy?) in full flow this evening with a string of new pseudonyms. Crack on lads (lad?) I’m sure it won’t just be me who’s sussed you out.
It’s appreciated it’s been a while since I posted but I have posted before and have a genuine email address. I bet there’s not many of the pro Kirkby men (man?) who can prove their email addys.
It’s appreciated it’s been a while since I posted but I have posted before and have a genuine email address. I bet there’s not many of the pro Kirkby men (man?) who can prove their email addys.
"Alex
Can you elaborate on your point please - i.e. which stadium exactly? "
Victor, my point is simply that whether you’re for or against Kirkby, once a formal decision has been made (either way) we are all then in the same boat.
Whether we stay at Goodison or find a new location or partner for a new stadium is irrelevant, I’m just making the point it may be helpful if we unite as fans and move on.
I get the feeling certain people, including you Victor, will be sad to miss all the yes/no vote drama/hatred, but soon as a formal decison has been made its time to end the chapter and move on together. I find your attitude a little bit pathetic.
Can you elaborate on your point please - i.e. which stadium exactly? "
Victor, my point is simply that whether you’re for or against Kirkby, once a formal decision has been made (either way) we are all then in the same boat.
Whether we stay at Goodison or find a new location or partner for a new stadium is irrelevant, I’m just making the point it may be helpful if we unite as fans and move on.
I get the feeling certain people, including you Victor, will be sad to miss all the yes/no vote drama/hatred, but soon as a formal decison has been made its time to end the chapter and move on together. I find your attitude a little bit pathetic.
I’m in agreement, Alex, let's move on.
So what happens now? We’re a poor club in a poor area sitting right next to one of the major brands in world sport (who despite they’re current troubles will always have investors ready to try their luck with them). We on the other hand manage to get a top performing UK company help us to purchase a stadium in a scouse heartland in dire need of regeneration but alas the rug is pulled from underneath us and people rejoice?!
Nobody else wants us thats why no plan B..I’m utterley ashamed of those who rejoice at the latest setback for this club of ours.. But all is not lost eh? because those who revel in all things that go wrong for this club Do have a plan B don’t they?
On the upside (I think) maybe we will stay at Goodison with no significant investment and piecemeal redevelopment over a 20 year period and mid table mediocrity or we share a stadium with our loveable neighbours (but you bet it will be as tenants only).. But hey! it’ll still be in L4!!..so that's alright then......
Its pointless the angry pro-Kirkbyites name calling and pointing the finger at KEIOC and us no-voters and telling us to now come up with a plan B etc as some of us could have told you years ago that DK wasn’t even a viable plan A, proven by the fact its been rejected.
I will suggest your a bit embarrassed at been taken in by the lies and spin coming out of the club,despite the non-stop bullshitting coming out of EFC ever since Kenwrong acquired the club. The fact DK was thrown out says it all, you should instead turn your anger on the Jokers running our great club.
Well Ciaran, if we are still sitting in GP in a couple of years time with not much money and no new owner, you might see that things are not so obvious as they appear to you in your simple world.
Let’s hope anyway that you are right, and a rich new owner will find a club in a dilapidated stadium with huge investment needs an attractive proposition. Otherwise we will be facing rather dark times ahead.
Let’s hope anyway that you are right, and a rich new owner will find a club in a dilapidated stadium with huge investment needs an attractive proposition. Otherwise we will be facing rather dark times ahead.
Hang on, Neil, you had a simple world of DK=new owners. Pot and kettle.
Ste, some of us are not angry but rather fearful about what lies ahead for us. Since you have not an inkling of an affordable Plan B, you should be too.
As for Kenwright, I agree that he has fucked up on this one (again) and it would be wonderful if he were replaced now by a rich and decent new owner. i hope I am wrong but we are most likely to find that the chances of that happening just went decisively down.
As for Kenwright, I agree that he has fucked up on this one (again) and it would be wonderful if he were replaced now by a rich and decent new owner. i hope I am wrong but we are most likely to find that the chances of that happening just went decisively down.
More conjecture from Neil. You don’t know if thats true or not.
Dk was rejected by the goverment, not by keioc or us MATCH GOING ludites, i,ll repeat MATCH GOING.
Because the MATCH GOING suppoerters seen all the problems in the DK farce.
Its ok sitting by your pc or iraq channel in the pub. IF YOU DONT GO DONT BLOW>
Because the MATCH GOING suppoerters seen all the problems in the DK farce.
Its ok sitting by your pc or iraq channel in the pub. IF YOU DONT GO DONT BLOW>
Well David, we will never know whether DK would have brought new owers. It might well have done. We are about to find out whether staying at GP does. It might if Kenwright decides to bail a la Ashley (if there is anyone willing to buy even at firesale prices). Let’s hope they were all just put off by Kirkby, eh?
Well, Neil, DK is now off the table, as is the exclusivity deal that was a barrier to a sale.
To sum up, Neil - Watch this space.
To sum up, Neil - Watch this space.
Indeed David - now the dreaded exclusivity deal has gone, I am looking forward to discussing all those wonderful and affordable alternatives that have been blocked all these years. Or maybe not.
How about a charity bet to make it interesting?
I believe that the club will find a buyer within a year (from today).
Do you accept these terms?
I will allow you to stake as much or as little as you like.
Acceptable?
I believe that the club will find a buyer within a year (from today).
Do you accept these terms?
I will allow you to stake as much or as little as you like.
Acceptable?
You can choose a charity of your choice, as can I. Better include that in the terms of the agreement .
We might David. Kenwright might now sell to whoever comes along, however unsuitable.
But we might well have found a buyer at Kirkby much more quickly - they would certainly not have to find nearly so much for a new ground.
This would be a bet I would dearly like to lose, so I just hope you are right.
But we might well have found a buyer at Kirkby much more quickly - they would certainly not have to find nearly so much for a new ground.
This would be a bet I would dearly like to lose, so I just hope you are right.
Come on, Neil, do you accept or not?
Why not sleep on it?
Why not sleep on it?
David, you might be right. Who knows what Kenwright might do now and who he might sell to? Let’s hope someone appears with the odd £200M to build us a new ground (somewhere...). They are going to need it.
So, then, where’s the alternative?
You can absolutely forget any chance of a sale of the club - no-one with any sense would want to take on Goodison
There is actually only one sensible answer now - a shared ground owned by the Council and leased to both clubs on the Milan model
You can absolutely forget any chance of a sale of the club - no-one with any sense would want to take on Goodison
There is actually only one sensible answer now - a shared ground owned by the Council and leased to both clubs on the Milan model
I was vocally against Kirkby from day 1 and I’ve been more nervous than before ANY derby match as this deadline approached, and I was fully expecting to be dancing in the street at this news, however, as others have said and as this very thread illustrates - I’m finding myself saddened.
The ramifications of this whole project (whichever way the decision went) are huge. Just read the above - fellow Blue fighting and arguing with fellow Blue. They’ve split the fanbase in two with this ridiculous scheme and I think the damage that has been done is going to take a long long time to heal.
I’m so SO glad the decision has gone the way it has....but I’m far from happy.
The ramifications of this whole project (whichever way the decision went) are huge. Just read the above - fellow Blue fighting and arguing with fellow Blue. They’ve split the fanbase in two with this ridiculous scheme and I think the damage that has been done is going to take a long long time to heal.
I’m so SO glad the decision has gone the way it has....but I’m far from happy.
Oh, and for all the "there is no plan B" quoters - that’s old hat and was Mr Wyness’s line.
Check the transcript of the AGM/EGM where Bill Kenwright said (and I quote) "Ok then, as a Plan B - Goodison, as a Plan C, The Loop site"
Another case of "watch this space" then ? (and maybe this time they could get some REALISTIC estimates from people who didn’t have a vested interest in quoting sky-high figures to redevelop Goodison because they would earn 10 times more from the Kirkby project !)
Check the transcript of the AGM/EGM where Bill Kenwright said (and I quote) "Ok then, as a Plan B - Goodison, as a Plan C, The Loop site"
Another case of "watch this space" then ? (and maybe this time they could get some REALISTIC estimates from people who didn’t have a vested interest in quoting sky-high figures to redevelop Goodison because they would earn 10 times more from the Kirkby project !)
These seem the salient points as we stand today:
1) Destination Kirkby is dead.
2) Everton FC still require improved stadium facilities to generate more revenue to facilitate financing and improved Everton team.
3) Everton’s ability to improve our stadium (be it at Goodison or elsewhere) is hamstrung by lack of money.
4) Everton have a large fanbase that wants to contunue support the team to greater success and wishes for improved stadium given its key role in this.
5) Now DK is dead, now could be an ideal time to get a fan backed (and fan owned e.g. supporters’ trust?) iniative up and running to help raise finance to help give our club the financial clout to afford what we need.
Could this be the creative solution by the fans for the fans that gives the ’peoples club’ tag real meaning and help get Everton back toward the top, on and off the park?
1) Destination Kirkby is dead.
2) Everton FC still require improved stadium facilities to generate more revenue to facilitate financing and improved Everton team.
3) Everton’s ability to improve our stadium (be it at Goodison or elsewhere) is hamstrung by lack of money.
4) Everton have a large fanbase that wants to contunue support the team to greater success and wishes for improved stadium given its key role in this.
5) Now DK is dead, now could be an ideal time to get a fan backed (and fan owned e.g. supporters’ trust?) iniative up and running to help raise finance to help give our club the financial clout to afford what we need.
Could this be the creative solution by the fans for the fans that gives the ’peoples club’ tag real meaning and help get Everton back toward the top, on and off the park?
Ok the smart arses who are pleased with the result.
Tell me this; what do we do now?
We have no money to redevelop GP, no partners, no free land offer from council and we’ll have a spanking new liverpool stadium right opposite ours if liverpool get their house in order.
We are in the shit, end of.
Tell me this; what do we do now?
We have no money to redevelop GP, no partners, no free land offer from council and we’ll have a spanking new liverpool stadium right opposite ours if liverpool get their house in order.
We are in the shit, end of.
Regardless of the call in. the main focus is for the current board to stand up and be counted for. Rather than relying on others they must show us their worth!
So stop all the bickering between us now, the current custodians have clearly split us down the middle. let us focus on the next problem. Where do we go from here.
Kenright and co - less of the bullshit theatre talk and tell us were we stand.
So stop all the bickering between us now, the current custodians have clearly split us down the middle. let us focus on the next problem. Where do we go from here.
Kenright and co - less of the bullshit theatre talk and tell us were we stand.
first time on Toffeeweb. at last David Reiner someone with some common sense, a shared stadium is the obvious answer. A state of the art football stadium with shared costs, ample parking facilities. Let the city of Liverpool lead the way by building the best stadium in the country. It wouldn’t matter to me personally that it belonged to both Everton and Liverpool i would be immensley proud of the fact that Everton led the way again.
Oh yeah and a BIG FUCKING THUMBS UP for the article now on the official site.
My early call to the Press office was met with ’No comment until the official decision is in the public domain.’If,indeed,it is to be then in my view it will be time for a period of quiet reflection.
In the meantime,we should be grateful to BB and everyone associated with the scheme for giving it their all in the cause of our great club.
In the meantime,we should be grateful to BB and everyone associated with the scheme for giving it their all in the cause of our great club.
Gavin, okay smart arse how the fuck were Everton going to pay for Kirkby anyway? I can’t stand deluded fools like you who were conned by the club and were willing to throw everything Everton means away juts on some false promise and piss poor planning. You’re a salesman’s wet dream.
If you bothered to take time to listen to the arguments for and against you’d realise quite clearly that Kikrby was a disaster.
Ian can I ask about the shared stadium? How would we fill a 60,000 seater? Would you be happy seeing us half fill a stadium while the shite fill it? Imagine the atmosphere when we only get 35,000 at home to Bolton in a 60 - 70,000 seater.
The answer is quite obvious - if Everton can find £80 million for Kirkby then that money would easily redevelop Goodison. The other thing that ends now is this ridiculous exclusivity deal with tescos and Knowsley. Everton can now investigate the other options which they have not done for the last 3 years. Everton are far better placed now to move forward than they were this time yesterday.
If you bothered to take time to listen to the arguments for and against you’d realise quite clearly that Kikrby was a disaster.
Ian can I ask about the shared stadium? How would we fill a 60,000 seater? Would you be happy seeing us half fill a stadium while the shite fill it? Imagine the atmosphere when we only get 35,000 at home to Bolton in a 60 - 70,000 seater.
The answer is quite obvious - if Everton can find £80 million for Kirkby then that money would easily redevelop Goodison. The other thing that ends now is this ridiculous exclusivity deal with tescos and Knowsley. Everton can now investigate the other options which they have not done for the last 3 years. Everton are far better placed now to move forward than they were this time yesterday.
.....Should have said Scot told me that just three minutes before he posted affirmation of the knock-back on the official site!
Gavin, I couldn’t agree more. We’re fucked as fucked can be. To be honest, probably where if DK had gone through as well - but at least there would have been some optimism at the club - even thats gone now. If we’re sold, chances are our buyer will be somebody already put off / turned down by Portsmouth / Newcastle et al. Fantastic thought. Moyes is generally a good manager with ambition. He will walk. Who would want to come here to replace him apart from a nobody Manager who could be hit or miss? Kenwright will prob have no option but to stay, as club pretty worthless in current state. If somebody else buys, don’t expect a sugar daddy. Mega rich people are generally not stupid, and Everton has zilch investment potential with such a long lead time to a new stadium. It took City to get the City of Manc stadium to look attractive - we won’t get that from Liverpool Council- they’re a bunch feckin aresholes. So what do we have to look forward too apart from average football, from bargain basement players, funded by the sale of our youth players / few quality players. Feckin well excites me! Don’t think I’ve ever been this depressed about the future of my football club.
I wouldn’t go as far as to say that I am PLEASED about the DK decision - the over-riding feeling is one of relief, followed by sadness at how divided our fan base is, and I would echo the calls above for us to all re-unite as a fanbase if that is at all possible.
We ARE still in a bad position, however, I still genuinely think that DK would have been far more disastrous for the club for all the reasons listed at length on here and elsewhere over the last few years. They should now look to harness the passion of Evertonians - work WITH the likes of KEIOC and Liverpool City Council rather than against them, put the past behind us and get on with trying to move our club forward in a more acceptable and MUCH safer manner than this project was.
And again, for the sake of clarity, there is no use bickering amongst ourselves about the rights and wrongs of voting Yes or No for DK. The pro-Kirkby people can blame the likes of KEIOC for the project failing, the anti-Kirkby people could equally blame the Yes voters for dragging this out as long as it has when the project could (possibly!) have been stopped years ago with a different vote and the club could have explored other options.
We are where we are now - not in a good position - but the project was halted by the government because it wasn’t feasible - end of story. That decision was not based on anything from KEIOC or any other opponent of the scheme it was based on law and consideration of the project plans.
The Everton board backed the wrong horse, and they - and only they - can be held responsible for the situation we now find ourselves in.
We ARE still in a bad position, however, I still genuinely think that DK would have been far more disastrous for the club for all the reasons listed at length on here and elsewhere over the last few years. They should now look to harness the passion of Evertonians - work WITH the likes of KEIOC and Liverpool City Council rather than against them, put the past behind us and get on with trying to move our club forward in a more acceptable and MUCH safer manner than this project was.
And again, for the sake of clarity, there is no use bickering amongst ourselves about the rights and wrongs of voting Yes or No for DK. The pro-Kirkby people can blame the likes of KEIOC for the project failing, the anti-Kirkby people could equally blame the Yes voters for dragging this out as long as it has when the project could (possibly!) have been stopped years ago with a different vote and the club could have explored other options.
We are where we are now - not in a good position - but the project was halted by the government because it wasn’t feasible - end of story. That decision was not based on anything from KEIOC or any other opponent of the scheme it was based on law and consideration of the project plans.
The Everton board backed the wrong horse, and they - and only they - can be held responsible for the situation we now find ourselves in.
Ciaran
You are right (as ever, of course). I do see the value in fans knowing what’s bad for them. The problem is that the anti-DK brigade don’t exactly articulate what is good for them in a watertight way. Can you spot the conundrum? Or are you simply saying "I know that I know what’s bad for me, and I don’t need to know what’s good for me, and moreover I don’t care that I don’t"?
If so, that sort of makes you a toothless cock.
You are right (as ever, of course). I do see the value in fans knowing what’s bad for them. The problem is that the anti-DK brigade don’t exactly articulate what is good for them in a watertight way. Can you spot the conundrum? Or are you simply saying "I know that I know what’s bad for me, and I don’t need to know what’s good for me, and moreover I don’t care that I don’t"?
If so, that sort of makes you a toothless cock.
’Well Ciaran, if we are still sitting in GP in a couple of years time with not much money and no new owner, you might see that things are not so obvious as they appear to you in your simple world. ’
-----------------------------
You attempt at condescension is pathetic...I’ve read your contributions to the Kirkby debate...and I wouldn’t advise you to throw the word ’simple’ around.
Especially considering your logic that anything that happens now could rationally and factually be considered worse than a situation that didn’t happen - that’s playschool thinking at best!
-----------------------------
You attempt at condescension is pathetic...I’ve read your contributions to the Kirkby debate...and I wouldn’t advise you to throw the word ’simple’ around.
Especially considering your logic that anything that happens now could rationally and factually be considered worse than a situation that didn’t happen - that’s playschool thinking at best!
Ther’s an interesting article on the Independant’s website http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/premier-league/everton-face-troubled-future-as-new-stadium-plan-rejected-1827697.html
To all the ’Thank fuck for that and Bullshit Billy is a gobshite’ read it wake up and smell the coffee-talk about fiddling while Rome burns
I am quite amazed why people want to leave GP.
All this talk about CL footy, wealthy owners and winning trophies on the back of going to a new stadium is really a very, very loose argument.
I have been going to GP since the 70’s. GP has always been a hell hole, visiting teams (and their fans) have always hated coming to GP - just ask any rival fan where they hate going the most!! To be honest if it wasn’t for the points EFC gained from their home games then relegation would have been a certainty many years ago.
The atmosphere and hostility has always been rife and to be honest I love it and IMO so does every other blue. More importantly, so do our players. They know that ref’s hate the place, intimidating and full of banter that echoes till your ears are sore. Our players have got away with tackles and body charges that are almost GBH cases (well, till this season - however I have feeling this will return very soon. I expect to see a high yellow & red card distribution to efc over the next few months).
Really, bring on all your arguments about relegation and little cash if we stay at GP. They are as valid as winning trophies and gaining CL footy if we move.
All this talk about CL footy, wealthy owners and winning trophies on the back of going to a new stadium is really a very, very loose argument.
I have been going to GP since the 70’s. GP has always been a hell hole, visiting teams (and their fans) have always hated coming to GP - just ask any rival fan where they hate going the most!! To be honest if it wasn’t for the points EFC gained from their home games then relegation would have been a certainty many years ago.
The atmosphere and hostility has always been rife and to be honest I love it and IMO so does every other blue. More importantly, so do our players. They know that ref’s hate the place, intimidating and full of banter that echoes till your ears are sore. Our players have got away with tackles and body charges that are almost GBH cases (well, till this season - however I have feeling this will return very soon. I expect to see a high yellow & red card distribution to efc over the next few months).
Really, bring on all your arguments about relegation and little cash if we stay at GP. They are as valid as winning trophies and gaining CL footy if we move.
David Judic, where’s there evidence anyone was going to buy us if we moved to Kirkby? Can anyone come up with any proof that Kenwright had some investors lined up once we’d moved? It’s all in your head that some rich Knight in shining armour was going to come in and save us.
If you think Man City are an example then look at Middlesborough, Bolton, Derby even Newcastle. They’ve all got shiny new stadiums and they’ve all got fuck all money. The stadium is not what is holding us back - it’s Kenwright.
The fans should now reunite and demand some action against Kenwright. He has shown time and time again how out of his depth he is and his management of the club is nothing but shambolic.
If you think Man City are an example then look at Middlesborough, Bolton, Derby even Newcastle. They’ve all got shiny new stadiums and they’ve all got fuck all money. The stadium is not what is holding us back - it’s Kenwright.
The fans should now reunite and demand some action against Kenwright. He has shown time and time again how out of his depth he is and his management of the club is nothing but shambolic.
Victor,
The anti-DK fans (brigade? bit pejorative is it not) have been involved in a well informed and articulate debate on these pages for over two years now...to say that they could not articulate their position, is disingenuous at best, and simply myopic at worst !
Compare the detailed legal, travel, information, finance and planning arguments of the anti-Kirkby fans - to the reactionary ill-informed polemic of the pro-kirkby fans...and there is very little comparison...These were people who ignored a simple calculation on the cost benefit which indicated that we’d be incurring a huge debt for a minimal gain or likely loss!
In fact we’ve had a steady trickle of pro-Kirkby fans admitting they voted ’yes’ simply on the basis of the misrepresentations of the various glossy brochures...Yet you have the cheek to label the anti-Kirkby fans misinformed?
If you want to see mis-information have a glance up and down this thread - and in particualr the level of articulation in the pro camp.. Your own argument is repeated the whole way down it...’What’s plan B?’...that’s not an argument for Kirkby...it’s simply an illogical affront to critical opposition.
Opposing the project on it’s factual failings is not mutually inclusive of suggesting an alternative - or perhaps you think Denham should have accompanied his refusal with altenatives?
Oh and you can call me ’cock’ all you like...an idiot will usually resort to such levels when found out...
And you’ve been found out.
Come back when you’ve got a sensible objection.
The anti-DK fans (brigade? bit pejorative is it not) have been involved in a well informed and articulate debate on these pages for over two years now...to say that they could not articulate their position, is disingenuous at best, and simply myopic at worst !
Compare the detailed legal, travel, information, finance and planning arguments of the anti-Kirkby fans - to the reactionary ill-informed polemic of the pro-kirkby fans...and there is very little comparison...These were people who ignored a simple calculation on the cost benefit which indicated that we’d be incurring a huge debt for a minimal gain or likely loss!
In fact we’ve had a steady trickle of pro-Kirkby fans admitting they voted ’yes’ simply on the basis of the misrepresentations of the various glossy brochures...Yet you have the cheek to label the anti-Kirkby fans misinformed?
If you want to see mis-information have a glance up and down this thread - and in particualr the level of articulation in the pro camp.. Your own argument is repeated the whole way down it...’What’s plan B?’...that’s not an argument for Kirkby...it’s simply an illogical affront to critical opposition.
Opposing the project on it’s factual failings is not mutually inclusive of suggesting an alternative - or perhaps you think Denham should have accompanied his refusal with altenatives?
Oh and you can call me ’cock’ all you like...an idiot will usually resort to such levels when found out...
And you’ve been found out.
Come back when you’ve got a sensible objection.
There is a God after all.
The link from the Keioc site to http://www.scribd.com/doc/23184405/09-11-25-Final-DL-Everton-Tesco-1203375 at the bottom of the document says there is a right to Challenge the decision.
In my mind, the fact that no one is even suggesting this from the Everton camp, says that they will already have a detailed Plan B and C, possibly even D. How do we know that Everton aren’t privately relieved too and glad to be finally rid of the exclusivity agreement and the restrictions imposed such as attendance capping and the like.
I’m now very interested in seeing what leadership the Everton board can produce to unite the fans and give a clear and concise way forward from here. And in the meantime, let’s use some of the cash obviously ferreted away for DK to bring in some extra players in January, becasue I think we will need them. Squeaky bum time in May, I sincerely hope not.
In my mind, the fact that no one is even suggesting this from the Everton camp, says that they will already have a detailed Plan B and C, possibly even D. How do we know that Everton aren’t privately relieved too and glad to be finally rid of the exclusivity agreement and the restrictions imposed such as attendance capping and the like.
I’m now very interested in seeing what leadership the Everton board can produce to unite the fans and give a clear and concise way forward from here. And in the meantime, let’s use some of the cash obviously ferreted away for DK to bring in some extra players in January, becasue I think we will need them. Squeaky bum time in May, I sincerely hope not.
To all people who are accusing KEIOC and the "anti-DK brigade" for causing this project to be rejected, I must suggest that you actually READ the documents that were returned - i.e. the Planning Inspector’s report, and the decision of the Secretary of State (both can be found here - http://bit.ly/5AqSzc - reported with no prejudice)
Even a perfunctory glance of the conclusions shows how fundamentally flawed this whole project was in SO many areas. It failed in so many areas that I’m almost surprised that the applicants aren’t being brought to task for the equivalent of "wasting police time" !
Please - read the reports and realise that the likes of KEIOC were NOT responsible for this project failing, as I stated above, it is the EFC board and ONLY they who can be held responsible for the position we now find ourselves in.
Even a perfunctory glance of the conclusions shows how fundamentally flawed this whole project was in SO many areas. It failed in so many areas that I’m almost surprised that the applicants aren’t being brought to task for the equivalent of "wasting police time" !
Please - read the reports and realise that the likes of KEIOC were NOT responsible for this project failing, as I stated above, it is the EFC board and ONLY they who can be held responsible for the position we now find ourselves in.
Kirkby was never the ideal solution to the Club’s need for a new stadium but it was all we had and all we could hope to afford. Those who ask the question, ’how would we have afforded £78m?’, now have to ask the question how do we afford much more than that to redevelop Goodison or move to another site with no free land and no enabling development?
Kirkby became Plan A because the only affordable Plan B was to stay as we are and if we do that we will die. Some might argue we are dying already.
More than one poster above has hinted yet again that it is time for Kenwright to sell up. But first you have to find a buyer and nobody is buying. If Newcastle, with a comparitively top-notch stadium and 55,000 gates in the Premiership couldn’t find a serious buyer then what chance have we got with a dilapidated stadium, one of the worst in the league with respect to facilities and sight lines and which will need relacing if any buyer wanted to recoup a profit?
I, like everybody who has posted so far, have not been privvy to the details behind Denham’s decision but what I have heard so far suggests that it was all about ’Shopping Policy’, a policy that Liverpool City Council was allowed to breach with the Liverpool One development whilst having no compunction in using it themselves in opposing the Kirkby scheme. I find this particularly sickening as should everybody interested in fairness irrespective of individual’s views on Kirkby. If it was indeed all about Shopping Policy then while KEIOC have undoubtedly got what they wanted they have not won the argument because it would appear the decision was not about the Stadium .
So rejoice, have your party now because I have this sickening feeling in my stomach that this decision could be the death- knell of our club and the party will inexorably turn into a wake in due course. If this sounds unduly pessimistic, then just consider the predicament the Club is now in, dispassionately, knowing that Kirkby is dead in the water, with nothing to replace it on the horizon and nothing to get emotional about. The heady days of Billionaires wanting to buy Football Clubs died with the recession and if they return at all it will take a very long time and Everton will remain low on their list of aquirable assets. Those who hope for a sugar daddy as a solution are deluding themselves. We can’t afford players and we can’t afford the level of wages that would enable us to hope to attract the best of them. Kirkby would not have solved that quandary overnight but it might have been a start. It might have led to a view amongst potential investors that here was a Club going somewhere, even if it was Kirkby and could be a Club worth looking at. Investors will now see a Club going nowhere except backwards and a Club, therefore not worthy of investment. That is the situation we are now stuck with. The future is bleak and will get bleaker. I have no doubt of that but nobody will be happier than me if I am wrong and to admit it. But I don;t think I will have to, I really don’t.
Kirkby became Plan A because the only affordable Plan B was to stay as we are and if we do that we will die. Some might argue we are dying already.
More than one poster above has hinted yet again that it is time for Kenwright to sell up. But first you have to find a buyer and nobody is buying. If Newcastle, with a comparitively top-notch stadium and 55,000 gates in the Premiership couldn’t find a serious buyer then what chance have we got with a dilapidated stadium, one of the worst in the league with respect to facilities and sight lines and which will need relacing if any buyer wanted to recoup a profit?
I, like everybody who has posted so far, have not been privvy to the details behind Denham’s decision but what I have heard so far suggests that it was all about ’Shopping Policy’, a policy that Liverpool City Council was allowed to breach with the Liverpool One development whilst having no compunction in using it themselves in opposing the Kirkby scheme. I find this particularly sickening as should everybody interested in fairness irrespective of individual’s views on Kirkby. If it was indeed all about Shopping Policy then while KEIOC have undoubtedly got what they wanted they have not won the argument because it would appear the decision was not about the Stadium .
So rejoice, have your party now because I have this sickening feeling in my stomach that this decision could be the death- knell of our club and the party will inexorably turn into a wake in due course. If this sounds unduly pessimistic, then just consider the predicament the Club is now in, dispassionately, knowing that Kirkby is dead in the water, with nothing to replace it on the horizon and nothing to get emotional about. The heady days of Billionaires wanting to buy Football Clubs died with the recession and if they return at all it will take a very long time and Everton will remain low on their list of aquirable assets. Those who hope for a sugar daddy as a solution are deluding themselves. We can’t afford players and we can’t afford the level of wages that would enable us to hope to attract the best of them. Kirkby would not have solved that quandary overnight but it might have been a start. It might have led to a view amongst potential investors that here was a Club going somewhere, even if it was Kirkby and could be a Club worth looking at. Investors will now see a Club going nowhere except backwards and a Club, therefore not worthy of investment. That is the situation we are now stuck with. The future is bleak and will get bleaker. I have no doubt of that but nobody will be happier than me if I am wrong and to admit it. But I don;t think I will have to, I really don’t.
I agree with Paul. Everton FC lives.Fuck the result at
Hull,get the champagne out.
Hull,get the champagne out.
Surely it has to be a shared ground; there really is no sensible alternative ? Whilst we’re at it, with injuries proving to be so infectious we might as well join up both squads, wear blue and red striped shirts etc., Sorry but I’m just pissed off about the way we seem to be heading, and with last night’s result, although I’m happy about the Kirkby decision. I still believe GP is capable of being redeveloped/refurbished and if we are stuck with 40000 capacity, so what ? How often do we fill it at present ? If mores seats are necessary why can’t the Park End be extended backwards or is there a constructional objection ?
I simply cannot express just how happy I am this morning. This is a fantastic day for Everton and Evertonians.
By the way...I’d like to support the sentiment of PabloMc...
This whole Kirkby situation has been ALLOWED to divide the fans by the powers that be...Now that it’s over - and further division has been diverted, hopefully we can all move on ..
And try and heal some of the rifts..
This whole Kirkby situation has been ALLOWED to divide the fans by the powers that be...Now that it’s over - and further division has been diverted, hopefully we can all move on ..
And try and heal some of the rifts..
Alan, I don’t have any evidence we would have been bought. Who possibly could have. All I was saying was that a new stadium would make Everton a more attractive proposition to a buyer. At the moment, what precisely is worth investing in at Everton? At least a new stadium would have given us something to attract attention. At the very least, a new stadium would have given us hope of a brighter future. Now I’m afraid I don’t feel any hope and feel we’re sliding towards oblivion.
There’s no logic in the investment in football clubs.Look at the contrasting situations at Newcastle and Birmingham.I am firmly in the improving[not to be confused with redeveloping] GP camp, as the Club would not be able to fund any other option,including a ground share.
Extra tier on Park End[Arteta] New Bullens Road using the same two tier design[Rodwell and Pieneaar] and removal of the pillars in the main stand[Kenwright].
I am only joking about the sale of players but i helps show the affordability of such a scheme.
Extra tier on Park End[Arteta] New Bullens Road using the same two tier design[Rodwell and Pieneaar] and removal of the pillars in the main stand[Kenwright].
I am only joking about the sale of players but i helps show the affordability of such a scheme.
It seems that Mr Elstone agrees with me too !
From an interview on the BBC website (you can hear the full interview via the link below)
"Kirkby...divided our fan base. That’s not something that is desirable and not something that the club has experienced in it’s 130-year history so now is the time to put those divides to one side, get back together and move the club forward in unity which is something we have done through our history ".
Hear hear !
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/8380376.stm
From an interview on the BBC website (you can hear the full interview via the link below)
"Kirkby...divided our fan base. That’s not something that is desirable and not something that the club has experienced in it’s 130-year history so now is the time to put those divides to one side, get back together and move the club forward in unity which is something we have done through our history ".
Hear hear !
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/8380376.stm
Supporters of DK who now (and ONLY now!) crawl out of the woodwork to castigate KEIOC, need (in my opinion) to know the following
If over the past couple of years, you had read something other than the SHITE printed in rags like the Echo and the Mirror, you almost certainly wouldn’t be so gutted right now.
I mean ffs, when you read there would be 7,000 jobs created in Kirkby, then read Peter Kilfolye say Everton moving from Walton wouldn’t make any real difference, didn’t it make you think - "hold on, that can’t be right"
Did it not make you think "Um... something not quite right here"
No it didn’t - instead your first thought was to lash out and to have a go at keioc.
Pathetic!
All you had to do was to read a brief summary of the inquiry and you’d have realised that DK, as presented by Everton-Tesco, breached all kinds of rules and therefore HAD to be elbowed.
As far as I know, Keioc didn’t make those rules, but they (unlike BK) seemed to know that if everything was above board, DK HAD to be doomed.
They were spot on to protest about Liverpool’s original team being moved out of Liverpool.
They were right pointing out the transport would have been a nightmare.
They not only offered a plan B but a C and D as well and I for one could not be more grateful for their efforts.
The fact is, the rules were already in place, but you and BK chose to cover your eyes and simply ignore them.
Instead you decided a better ’plan’ would be wishful thinking.
Your plan - "we want it so we REALLY hope it happens".
Well history tells us that just doesn’t happen
I mean had none of you ever heard of the luddites?
If over the past couple of years, you had read something other than the SHITE printed in rags like the Echo and the Mirror, you almost certainly wouldn’t be so gutted right now.
I mean ffs, when you read there would be 7,000 jobs created in Kirkby, then read Peter Kilfolye say Everton moving from Walton wouldn’t make any real difference, didn’t it make you think - "hold on, that can’t be right"
Did it not make you think "Um... something not quite right here"
No it didn’t - instead your first thought was to lash out and to have a go at keioc.
Pathetic!
All you had to do was to read a brief summary of the inquiry and you’d have realised that DK, as presented by Everton-Tesco, breached all kinds of rules and therefore HAD to be elbowed.
As far as I know, Keioc didn’t make those rules, but they (unlike BK) seemed to know that if everything was above board, DK HAD to be doomed.
They were spot on to protest about Liverpool’s original team being moved out of Liverpool.
They were right pointing out the transport would have been a nightmare.
They not only offered a plan B but a C and D as well and I for one could not be more grateful for their efforts.
The fact is, the rules were already in place, but you and BK chose to cover your eyes and simply ignore them.
Instead you decided a better ’plan’ would be wishful thinking.
Your plan - "we want it so we REALLY hope it happens".
Well history tells us that just doesn’t happen
I mean had none of you ever heard of the luddites?
This is the best news we have received for many years! Although we have difficult times ahead, at least we can start to think about a plan that will not divide the fanbase so much. I only dread to think how much money we have wasted on consultancy fees recently relating to this move - could we have kept Lescott? As for the next move, as previously stated, honesty surely is the best policy.
Gavin...and whose fault is all that,, hmm? The hierarchy that you trusted to lead us to a soul-less breeze-block stadium? You should put your question to the directors of the Everton Football Club Company Ltd
Richard...what’s Billy Butler got do with it?
For all those out-of-sorts over the negation of your dream, how about filling that void in your life by taking up the banner on behalf of the Alt voles, forced out of their homes by the arrogance and presumption of Tesco - Return Our Voles To Their River
Nice to see Bobby was aware of the animosity and division; pity he didn’t have the balls to mention it before
I was dreading Sunday thinking it could possibly be the last derby match I go to
Proud to be a Brigadier (although we had no impact at all on the Government’s decision)
Richard...what’s Billy Butler got do with it?
For all those out-of-sorts over the negation of your dream, how about filling that void in your life by taking up the banner on behalf of the Alt voles, forced out of their homes by the arrogance and presumption of Tesco - Return Our Voles To Their River
Nice to see Bobby was aware of the animosity and division; pity he didn’t have the balls to mention it before
I was dreading Sunday thinking it could possibly be the last derby match I go to
Proud to be a Brigadier (although we had no impact at all on the Government’s decision)
’"Kirkby...divided our fan base. That’s not something that is desirable and not something that the club has experienced in it’s 130-year history so now is the time to put those divides to one side, get back together and move the club forward in unity which is something we have done through our history ".
---------------------------------
Dear god!
I cannae believe my ears captain!
I’d love to do a backwards compatibility test on this statement - but we all knew the powers that be were fooling themselves in order to fool us..
Nice to see some honesty for a change...long may it continue!
---------------------------------
Dear god!
I cannae believe my ears captain!
I’d love to do a backwards compatibility test on this statement - but we all knew the powers that be were fooling themselves in order to fool us..
Nice to see some honesty for a change...long may it continue!
Haha...
Forgot about those voles....you know, the ones who had to be removed before they hibernated..even though voles don’t hibernate!
Poor bastards!
Forgot about those voles....you know, the ones who had to be removed before they hibernated..even though voles don’t hibernate!
Poor bastards!
Alan,
"I can’t stand deluded fools like you"
"if Everton can find £80 million for Kirkby then that money would easily redevelop Goodison"
Deluded? what I said was fact mate. What you said was bollocks...Goodison Park redeveloped for 80m? you’re having a laugh.
Phil,
Its not a question of just trusting EFC, its a question of trusting EFC, tesco and the local council as a team. I would rather believe in them than the local MP and mayor who are bullshitters.
To be honest though Phil I was concerned with the quality of the stadium but what alternative have we got? We havent the money to redevelop GP and no partners to help us out. We’ll never be a force again without a new stadium, investors will not be interested. I should know, I am one. Look at the situation at Southamton; they said they invested becuase they have a good training setup, tick, good young squad, tick, great manager, tick, great history and support, tick tick, and a new stadium, no tick!
Let me make this clear, I would rather we stay at GP in a spanking new ground believe me BUT WE HAVE TO LIVE IN THE REAL WORLD AND ADMIT WE HAVE NO MONEY.
"I can’t stand deluded fools like you"
"if Everton can find £80 million for Kirkby then that money would easily redevelop Goodison"
Deluded? what I said was fact mate. What you said was bollocks...Goodison Park redeveloped for 80m? you’re having a laugh.
Phil,
Its not a question of just trusting EFC, its a question of trusting EFC, tesco and the local council as a team. I would rather believe in them than the local MP and mayor who are bullshitters.
To be honest though Phil I was concerned with the quality of the stadium but what alternative have we got? We havent the money to redevelop GP and no partners to help us out. We’ll never be a force again without a new stadium, investors will not be interested. I should know, I am one. Look at the situation at Southamton; they said they invested becuase they have a good training setup, tick, good young squad, tick, great manager, tick, great history and support, tick tick, and a new stadium, no tick!
Let me make this clear, I would rather we stay at GP in a spanking new ground believe me BUT WE HAVE TO LIVE IN THE REAL WORLD AND ADMIT WE HAVE NO MONEY.
Does the decision re DK make the possibility investment in our club more or less likely? Without that cash injection the possibility of us mountimg a serious challenge for a regular top 4 slot is so distant it is invisible.
I worry that whatever Plan B emerges it will have formidable costs and may also divide the fan base. We all want a state of the art stadium but many TW contributors have champagne tastes and fail to appreciate we are on beer money, and little of that..A shared stadium is logical but may be beyond our means. I am sceptical re the development of GP to the appropriate standard. I do not believe that there are wealthy individuals willing to invest in our club but have been thwarted by BK’s machinations. However, I am concerned that investors might want significant progress towards the provision of new facilities before we see their money. That will be some time off.
I worry that whatever Plan B emerges it will have formidable costs and may also divide the fan base. We all want a state of the art stadium but many TW contributors have champagne tastes and fail to appreciate we are on beer money, and little of that..A shared stadium is logical but may be beyond our means. I am sceptical re the development of GP to the appropriate standard. I do not believe that there are wealthy individuals willing to invest in our club but have been thwarted by BK’s machinations. However, I am concerned that investors might want significant progress towards the provision of new facilities before we see their money. That will be some time off.
David, your logic is still flawed. Look at all those clubs with shiny new stadiums playing Championship football struggling to find investment.
There is no death nell for our club. our club will not collapse just because we’re not moving to Kirkby. There is no party, we still have Kenwright in charge.
There is no death nell for our club. our club will not collapse just because we’re not moving to Kirkby. There is no party, we still have Kenwright in charge.
Its not a question of just trusting EFC, its a question of trusting EFC, tesco and the local council as a team.
-----------------------------
Yeah, because Tesco’s shareholders have a soft spot for Everton - and Knowsley council aren’t interested in what they can get for themselves..
Some people never learn, no matter how often they have things explained...
-----------------------------
Yeah, because Tesco’s shareholders have a soft spot for Everton - and Knowsley council aren’t interested in what they can get for themselves..
Some people never learn, no matter how often they have things explained...
David Hallwood, the article you refer to is journalistic bullshit, how about one major flaw which stopped me reading it dead and I quote "The stadium, he will argue, will breach local shopping policy designed to discourage major supermarket chains sucking business away from town and city centres."
Let me remind you, the stadium has nothing to do with the planning rejection, the retail park was in blatant disregard of many planning regulations and it was on that and that alone that it was called in and rejected. The stadium ws the enabler for Tesco to try and bypass the planning rules. Tesco needed us not the other way around - read the public enquiry documents. Tesco now own a considerable swathe of land in Kirkby so will build on it, just not to the extent they had planned.
Another laughable conjecture is "Goodison, an ancient stadium with a mere 40,000 capacity, offers no prospects for expansion" does that mean the reporter is a qualified subject matter expert (stadium architect) to give that statement as fact or is it just his viewpoint to support the article’s theme?
Elstone is quoted as saying "Tesco anticipated such profit that they were willing to subsidise the cost of building the stadium, by £52m, leaving Everton to find only £78m, to build the stadium." Strange that this was thrown out during the public enquiry as stuff of daydreams and as you like press reports - http://www.liverpooldailypost.co.uk/everton-fc/everton-fc-stadium/2008/12/11/everton-inquiry-mystery-surrounds-kirkby-s-52million-economic-miracle-92534-22451792/ to name just one report of this fabled figure.
Let me remind you, the stadium has nothing to do with the planning rejection, the retail park was in blatant disregard of many planning regulations and it was on that and that alone that it was called in and rejected. The stadium ws the enabler for Tesco to try and bypass the planning rules. Tesco needed us not the other way around - read the public enquiry documents. Tesco now own a considerable swathe of land in Kirkby so will build on it, just not to the extent they had planned.
Another laughable conjecture is "Goodison, an ancient stadium with a mere 40,000 capacity, offers no prospects for expansion" does that mean the reporter is a qualified subject matter expert (stadium architect) to give that statement as fact or is it just his viewpoint to support the article’s theme?
Elstone is quoted as saying "Tesco anticipated such profit that they were willing to subsidise the cost of building the stadium, by £52m, leaving Everton to find only £78m, to build the stadium." Strange that this was thrown out during the public enquiry as stuff of daydreams and as you like press reports - http://www.liverpooldailypost.co.uk/everton-fc/everton-fc-stadium/2008/12/11/everton-inquiry-mystery-surrounds-kirkby-s-52million-economic-miracle-92534-22451792/ to name just one report of this fabled figure.
Gavin Harris, take a chill pill and please quote us how you know the costs involved to redevelop Goodison Park and their source. I ask this because the only quote given by the club to redevlop Bullens Road stand was twice the price that Chelsea paid in London for a stand and oddly the same cost as DK but it did come from Tesco’s builders who surely had a vested interest in giving that response.
When you have work of that type undertaken you enter a tendering process with an overall estimated budget. I suggest given the publicly available costings of other stadia being redeveloped together with the current economic climate that the costs for Bullens Road would be nowhere near the only quote available.
Many posters on this site such as Tom Hughes and others have suggested a gradual build which in turn funds the next phase as every other club which has redeveloped since Hillsborough have done.
A redeveloped GP isn’t the only option or the only one I’m interested in. The termination of the exclusivity deal will surely give the opportunity to tender and open the floor to opportunities.
When you have work of that type undertaken you enter a tendering process with an overall estimated budget. I suggest given the publicly available costings of other stadia being redeveloped together with the current economic climate that the costs for Bullens Road would be nowhere near the only quote available.
Many posters on this site such as Tom Hughes and others have suggested a gradual build which in turn funds the next phase as every other club which has redeveloped since Hillsborough have done.
A redeveloped GP isn’t the only option or the only one I’m interested in. The termination of the exclusivity deal will surely give the opportunity to tender and open the floor to opportunities.
Well, the Millenium stadium over ten years ago redeveloped at total construction cost of £121 million.
Chelsea developed their West Stand for 70m (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stamford_Bridge_%28stadium%29)
Fulham redevelopment of their Craven Cottage ground for £70m. (http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/f/fulham/1764314.stm).
Arsenal spent £400 million on the Emirates. Spurs are reportingly spending the same figure on theirs. Portsmouth prepared to spend £600 on their new stadium (http://www.cnplus.co.uk/news/portsmouths-600m-football-stadium-project-on-hold/1995661.article) Bristol Rovers have spent £35 million refurbishment of the Memorial Stadium, bringing it up to an 18,500 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Memorial_Stadium_%28Bristol%29#Stadium_redevelopment) and I could go on. 80m on a really class stadium that will be our home for many years is a very good deal, if we can get it, I don;t think we will.
Chelsea developed their West Stand for 70m (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stamford_Bridge_%28stadium%29)
Fulham redevelopment of their Craven Cottage ground for £70m. (http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/f/fulham/1764314.stm).
Arsenal spent £400 million on the Emirates. Spurs are reportingly spending the same figure on theirs. Portsmouth prepared to spend £600 on their new stadium (http://www.cnplus.co.uk/news/portsmouths-600m-football-stadium-project-on-hold/1995661.article) Bristol Rovers have spent £35 million refurbishment of the Memorial Stadium, bringing it up to an 18,500 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Memorial_Stadium_%28Bristol%29#Stadium_redevelopment) and I could go on. 80m on a really class stadium that will be our home for many years is a very good deal, if we can get it, I don;t think we will.
Gavin Harris,
I admit...we have no money.
there - has that made you feel better?
As for living in the real world - Everton FC had to find £78m to build the ’virtually free’ stadium...Where was that coming from? Why can’t we still get it?
Why can’t Goodison be redeveloped in stages using the said £78m? i.e. Bullens road first?
Why, if £78m was going to build us ’a ‘state of the art’ 50,000 seater stadium for Everton Football Club’ cant the same money redevelop goodison or build us something somewhere else...if £78m can’t redevelop an existing structure - because its unrealistic - then why the FUCK where you happy to except that it was enough to build something from scratch.
Dont counter this with ’the retail partners where gonna throw their hand in’ because clearly, from the inquiry, they said they were not...
I admit...we have no money.
there - has that made you feel better?
As for living in the real world - Everton FC had to find £78m to build the ’virtually free’ stadium...Where was that coming from? Why can’t we still get it?
Why can’t Goodison be redeveloped in stages using the said £78m? i.e. Bullens road first?
Why, if £78m was going to build us ’a ‘state of the art’ 50,000 seater stadium for Everton Football Club’ cant the same money redevelop goodison or build us something somewhere else...if £78m can’t redevelop an existing structure - because its unrealistic - then why the FUCK where you happy to except that it was enough to build something from scratch.
Dont counter this with ’the retail partners where gonna throw their hand in’ because clearly, from the inquiry, they said they were not...
Gavin H, the Portsmouth quote is pie in the Sky when you see what the Emirates is, wiki isn’t reliable, the craven cottage and chelsea are only comparable site redevlopments.
Plese don’t say you think that DK was a "really class stadium for £80m".
Plese don’t say you think that DK was a "really class stadium for £80m".
"Yeah, because Tesco’s shareholders have a soft spot for Everton - and Knowsley council aren’t interested in what they can get for themselves.."
Mate I really thought you knew your stuff. You really think that Tesco stakeholders are going to vote for something because their top man is an Evertonian? You arent a business man are you. They care about one thing and that is money. Nothing else. That stadium would have made them millions because its in a good spot out of the city and because the fnas would make them a killing. Knowsley saw a great opportunity to pump money into a really poor area. Lets be honest about that one. It would have brought jobs, investment, money from fans, etc. They didn’t really care it was everton, they would have accepted Liverpool. It was a good deal all round and everyone knew it. If it were 1mile inside the city but an extra 10 miles away from G[P it would have pleased everyone and thats pretty sad.
Mate I really thought you knew your stuff. You really think that Tesco stakeholders are going to vote for something because their top man is an Evertonian? You arent a business man are you. They care about one thing and that is money. Nothing else. That stadium would have made them millions because its in a good spot out of the city and because the fnas would make them a killing. Knowsley saw a great opportunity to pump money into a really poor area. Lets be honest about that one. It would have brought jobs, investment, money from fans, etc. They didn’t really care it was everton, they would have accepted Liverpool. It was a good deal all round and everyone knew it. If it were 1mile inside the city but an extra 10 miles away from G[P it would have pleased everyone and thats pretty sad.
Gavin,
Turn on the sarcasm lock..
Turn on the sarcasm lock..
To extend the stands we would need to rotate the stadium ok and that is expensive to do. At the moment there is no space to do that. We’d have to buy extra land too.
We’d have to reduce the capacity by quite a bit, hit Moyes’s transfer fund and maybe move to a neighbours ground for 2 seasons. All that without dropping down the league or two?
I just don’t think its financially possible for us to do. The new stadiums elsewhere are costing mych more than 80m and my dad who is an architect says its not possible too. And for the record I don;t think the kirby stadium was a "really class stadium" but we had no other option.
We’d have to reduce the capacity by quite a bit, hit Moyes’s transfer fund and maybe move to a neighbours ground for 2 seasons. All that without dropping down the league or two?
I just don’t think its financially possible for us to do. The new stadiums elsewhere are costing mych more than 80m and my dad who is an architect says its not possible too. And for the record I don;t think the kirby stadium was a "really class stadium" but we had no other option.
’That stadium would have made them millions’
---------------------
How?
---------------------
How?
How?
Well if we had 45,000 fans every other week and on average everyone spent a tenner (food and drink, etc) that would be £11,700,000 per year.
And that excludes mid-week too!
Anyways i cannot be arsed to bang on. Thats my view and we’ll see who is right in 50 years time. Maybe meet for a beer or two and have a chatter! :-)
Well if we had 45,000 fans every other week and on average everyone spent a tenner (food and drink, etc) that would be £11,700,000 per year.
And that excludes mid-week too!
Anyways i cannot be arsed to bang on. Thats my view and we’ll see who is right in 50 years time. Maybe meet for a beer or two and have a chatter! :-)
So your suggesting that every one of our imaginary 45k fans would spend a tenner of their hard earned cash in Tesco?
Not only would that kick our revenue in the bollocks - it’s pure and utter shite.
As for your ’we’ll see who’s right in 50 years time’ - what exactly will you be comparing it to?
Your fanciful presumptions as to what would’ve happened?
Do me a favour.
Not only would that kick our revenue in the bollocks - it’s pure and utter shite.
As for your ’we’ll see who’s right in 50 years time’ - what exactly will you be comparing it to?
Your fanciful presumptions as to what would’ve happened?
Do me a favour.
I’ll take the beer but...;-)
I have said it before and I will say it again, we must go forward for a JOINT STADIUM. Basically we are both screwed financially lets face it, so with the help of both clubs and the council we can fund a Stadium that the whole city would be proud of. We will host the world cup matches there for sure.
The sooner the fickle fans amongst us from both teams get over it the better. I am sick of hearing people moaning about Kirkby this and Goodison that. Neither is realistically gonna happen.
We must move on and knock some heads together and make this happen or both clubs will be left behind! Much as I hate to admit it the RS have their global fan base to fall back on, we have a fantastic loyal fan base but not the same level of revenue stream.
If anyone can give me sound and sensible reasons why not then I am happy to hear them?
The sooner the fickle fans amongst us from both teams get over it the better. I am sick of hearing people moaning about Kirkby this and Goodison that. Neither is realistically gonna happen.
We must move on and knock some heads together and make this happen or both clubs will be left behind! Much as I hate to admit it the RS have their global fan base to fall back on, we have a fantastic loyal fan base but not the same level of revenue stream.
If anyone can give me sound and sensible reasons why not then I am happy to hear them?
There remains only one way forward for us and "them" on the stadium front. It’s the elephant in the room that maybe, just maybe, will start to make some real noise now.
Here’s an astute and wholly accurate take on this in today’s Times from Patrick Barclay.
--------------------------------------
What the outsider notices on visiting the city of Liverpool is that it is a ÒsmallÓ place. True, football has made it seem big for as long as most of us can remember, but the danger is that, without a vision, it will punch its weight and become more like Sheffield, with two ÒsmallÓ clubs, than Milan, which has two big ones.
Disparate ownerships, the true blue Bill Kenwright on one side and the Americans on the other, cannot see that the future lies in a joint stadium and other facilities, including a museum and academies, that would be the envy of the football world. Instead they parade models of new homes that either should not or will not be built.
They claim to reflect the wishes of the fans. In which case the fans will get the future they deserve.
--------------------------------------
When was the last time that sense prevailed?
Here’s an astute and wholly accurate take on this in today’s Times from Patrick Barclay.
--------------------------------------
What the outsider notices on visiting the city of Liverpool is that it is a ÒsmallÓ place. True, football has made it seem big for as long as most of us can remember, but the danger is that, without a vision, it will punch its weight and become more like Sheffield, with two ÒsmallÓ clubs, than Milan, which has two big ones.
Disparate ownerships, the true blue Bill Kenwright on one side and the Americans on the other, cannot see that the future lies in a joint stadium and other facilities, including a museum and academies, that would be the envy of the football world. Instead they parade models of new homes that either should not or will not be built.
They claim to reflect the wishes of the fans. In which case the fans will get the future they deserve.
--------------------------------------
When was the last time that sense prevailed?
Can you imagine 45,000 fans trying to spend a tenner in tescos...
the queues are long enough when theres one till down in the one in Prescot!
Gavin - you are telling us to get real but then your quoting ’my dad’s an architect and he said its not possible’ and other such shite like ’if we all spent a tenner’ ...
As Ciaran said...if we all spent a tenner in tesco (AND ITS A BIG IF)...then thats a tenner we are not spending in the ground...
50 years on, Tesco woudl expand, engulf the stadium that would be derelict and empty with tundra blowing about in it...
We would be Chester City FC...if we existed at all. But at least we could say to our grand kids that we once supported a team that had a shiny stadium next to a fabulous tesco - the best tesco because it could handle a 45,000 surge of customers every saturday at 2pm...
GET REAL
the queues are long enough when theres one till down in the one in Prescot!
Gavin - you are telling us to get real but then your quoting ’my dad’s an architect and he said its not possible’ and other such shite like ’if we all spent a tenner’ ...
As Ciaran said...if we all spent a tenner in tesco (AND ITS A BIG IF)...then thats a tenner we are not spending in the ground...
50 years on, Tesco woudl expand, engulf the stadium that would be derelict and empty with tundra blowing about in it...
We would be Chester City FC...if we existed at all. But at least we could say to our grand kids that we once supported a team that had a shiny stadium next to a fabulous tesco - the best tesco because it could handle a 45,000 surge of customers every saturday at 2pm...
GET REAL
If anyone can give me sound and sensible reasons why not then I am happy to hear them?
-----
There isn’t any - only blind emotion.
-----
There isn’t any - only blind emotion.
Correct Ciaran, I am now waiting for the usual suspects to start posting about how they can’t/ won’t share a stadium with the RS. How they will stop going to the matches if this happens etc etc. We have all heard it before!
We need to get into reality and fast before the Tottenhams, Sunderlands, Villas, City and even Stoke leave us so far behind!
We need to get into reality and fast before the Tottenhams, Sunderlands, Villas, City and even Stoke leave us so far behind!
Colour of the seats is a cracker Dave...
O.K..Kop end red...Gwladys end blue and the two stands transparent ....
Sorted!
Size is another one....our crowd would be dwarfed...
O.K, if it’s a comprimise (and council funded) stadium - then it won’t be 90k...it’ll be somewhere in between our needs and their needs..then it’s up to our marketing staff (okay, I know) to attract more fans to a prime location in a thriving city...Imagination eh! a wonderful tool!
O.K..Kop end red...Gwladys end blue and the two stands transparent ....
Sorted!
Size is another one....our crowd would be dwarfed...
O.K, if it’s a comprimise (and council funded) stadium - then it won’t be 90k...it’ll be somewhere in between our needs and their needs..then it’s up to our marketing staff (okay, I know) to attract more fans to a prime location in a thriving city...Imagination eh! a wonderful tool!
Well, that’s it then. The blinkered fools have won.
If anyone thinks for a moment staying at Goodison and playing Championship football is a better option than going to watch your ’beloved’ Everton in the PL at a new ground in Kirby then I give up.
Sometimes it’s better to use your head than your heart.
If anyone thinks for a moment staying at Goodison and playing Championship football is a better option than going to watch your ’beloved’ Everton in the PL at a new ground in Kirby then I give up.
Sometimes it’s better to use your head than your heart.
Found that exact quote now - from Bill Kenwright at the 2007 AGM :-
"On behalf of the board - as a Plan B - Goodison, as a Plan C we’ll look at the Bestway again"
So that will be our next step then ? An unbiased and honest assessment of the options for redeveloping Goodison ?
"On behalf of the board - as a Plan B - Goodison, as a Plan C we’ll look at the Bestway again"
So that will be our next step then ? An unbiased and honest assessment of the options for redeveloping Goodison ?
Colour of the seats is a cracker Dave...
O.K..Kop end red...Gwladys end blue and the two stands transparent ....
Sorted!
Size is another one....our crowd would be dwarfed...
O.K, if it’s a comprimise (and council funded) stadium - then it won’t be 90k...it’ll be somewhere in between our needs and their needs..then it’s up to our marketing staff (okay, I know) to attract more fans to a prime location in a thriving city...Imagination eh! a wonderful tool!
O.K..Kop end red...Gwladys end blue and the two stands transparent ....
Sorted!
Size is another one....our crowd would be dwarfed...
O.K, if it’s a comprimise (and council funded) stadium - then it won’t be 90k...it’ll be somewhere in between our needs and their needs..then it’s up to our marketing staff (okay, I know) to attract more fans to a prime location in a thriving city...Imagination eh! a wonderful tool!
Gary Drain, you say..
"Sometimes it’s better to use your head than your heart"
No poo-poo Mr Holmes!
I mean if your heart says "tell that huge tattooed feller he’s a big shit-house!" and your head says "Fucking Don’t!" probably best going with the head.
But what about football?
Remember, It’s our hearts that say "Everton!".
So should we all be Utd supporters instead?
They’re very successful, for the most part play decent football and have a great stadium.
They are the team the head would tell us to support.
(do you have a head/heart list I can have a look at?)
Seriously, anyone suggesting Kirkby is/was a ’decision of the head’ is DEFINITELY not using theirs.
EG: "I’ve thought about this with my head not my heart. I want to wait in a queue on a platform for an hour-and-a-half after the match...."
Etc.
"Sometimes it’s better to use your head than your heart"
No poo-poo Mr Holmes!
I mean if your heart says "tell that huge tattooed feller he’s a big shit-house!" and your head says "Fucking Don’t!" probably best going with the head.
But what about football?
Remember, It’s our hearts that say "Everton!".
So should we all be Utd supporters instead?
They’re very successful, for the most part play decent football and have a great stadium.
They are the team the head would tell us to support.
(do you have a head/heart list I can have a look at?)
Seriously, anyone suggesting Kirkby is/was a ’decision of the head’ is DEFINITELY not using theirs.
EG: "I’ve thought about this with my head not my heart. I want to wait in a queue on a platform for an hour-and-a-half after the match...."
Etc.
The solution to the seating, apparently and don’t quote me on this is that it will be about the lighting. The new fangled technology allows this. eg when we play at home the stadium and seats etc will appear Blue inside and when they do it will be blood coloured.
Kirwin, what’s your obsession with that knob-jockey Patrick barclay? Every time you come up with an argument you start quoting him. Every journalist knows fuck all compared to the fans who attend every week and live and breathe the club.
Can you please tell me where the extra 20,000 Everton fans come from to fill the shared stadium? Or are you happy to watch Everton in a half empty stadium? Also enlighten me as to where Everton get the funding for this venture?
The only ’sensible’ option is redevelop Goodison.
Can you please tell me where the extra 20,000 Everton fans come from to fill the shared stadium? Or are you happy to watch Everton in a half empty stadium? Also enlighten me as to where Everton get the funding for this venture?
The only ’sensible’ option is redevelop Goodison.
Goodison cannot be ’redeveloped to a satisfactory standard without compulsorily purchasing the surrounding houses for demolition, and re-routing the A580. As neither of those things are going to happen it is a total non-starter and would do nothing to increase investment in the club
A shared stadium makes sense.
A shared stadium makes sense.
Mike, have to pick you up on the need to re-route the A580 or Walton Lane to anyone who didnt realise what road you meant. Do you know physically how far that is away from the footprint of the current stadium and how bigs we would have to make the stands to get close enough to it to force a re-route? If the Park End was physically 2.5 times as large a footprint as it is now
The school behind the Bullens Road is due to shut, I believe the council own/rent out the land that Walton Motors currently uses.
The car park behind the Park End is dead space and should be built/extended over. Cars aren’t fragile things and don’t give a toss if they are parked in an underground car park built beneath whatever would occupy this space (DK had this idea but the lanbd was full of poisonous toxins too expensive to remove), giving a much larger stand and myriad of possibilities in that space, hotel, conference suites, executive hospitality, leisure, whatever could provide the best return of interest.
The trickiest stand would be the Bullens Road which couldn’t be properly addressed without land take up behind it.
Either way, I believe truly independent reports on feasibility and costings would settle the suitability of GP once and for all and not just a single report but conclusive tendered reports.
The school behind the Bullens Road is due to shut, I believe the council own/rent out the land that Walton Motors currently uses.
The car park behind the Park End is dead space and should be built/extended over. Cars aren’t fragile things and don’t give a toss if they are parked in an underground car park built beneath whatever would occupy this space (DK had this idea but the lanbd was full of poisonous toxins too expensive to remove), giving a much larger stand and myriad of possibilities in that space, hotel, conference suites, executive hospitality, leisure, whatever could provide the best return of interest.
The trickiest stand would be the Bullens Road which couldn’t be properly addressed without land take up behind it.
Either way, I believe truly independent reports on feasibility and costings would settle the suitability of GP once and for all and not just a single report but conclusive tendered reports.
I have to say I’m happy it has been denied. To move is the biggest sin for me, I know others see it differently and I see their points as valid as mine. It seems we would all love Goodison to be redeveloped but I think many will have to wake up to the fact that the site, without some serious cash, is a non-starter. The ground share would be my next preferred option, it ticks all the boxes and everyone can see that. The stumbling block is the perception that we as people are unable to cooperate and I would personally like to see it happen for humanities sake as well as the future of both these great teams. Yes people fall out, but they also settle their differences.
For me the only real winners for a ground share is the people of Merseyside. I’m sure some people would happily end up watching both teams. They should set their standards really high and provide a venue to rival other great venues that can be adaptable when football isn’t there, who really cares if Tescos is dipping their hand in their pocket. Make it 100000 capacity, keep the seats cheap, and I’m sure people will fill it. Don’t use the world cup bid as an excuse, Merseyside should do this out of pride.
For me the only real winners for a ground share is the people of Merseyside. I’m sure some people would happily end up watching both teams. They should set their standards really high and provide a venue to rival other great venues that can be adaptable when football isn’t there, who really cares if Tescos is dipping their hand in their pocket. Make it 100000 capacity, keep the seats cheap, and I’m sure people will fill it. Don’t use the world cup bid as an excuse, Merseyside should do this out of pride.
Says the mentality of some of the pro - Kirkby lads, when we hear things like " If anyone thinks for a moment staying at Goodison and playing championship football is a better option than going to watch your beloved Everton in the pl at a new ground in Kirkby, then I give up "
How are we all of a sudden going to be in the championship, just because we are staying at Goodison?
Last time I looked is was the same squad of players who are at Goodison, that would have gone to Kirkby, and our fate is in their hands, not what stadium we play in. And please, don’t start with all the ’ Moving to Kirkby would have given us more investment ’ How? We would have had more debt on top of our existing debt, we would have had to fill the ground nearly every game, and fill all the corporate, to get what? A paltry £6m, that would have probalby gone on our interest payments. Over to you Gary.
How are we all of a sudden going to be in the championship, just because we are staying at Goodison?
Last time I looked is was the same squad of players who are at Goodison, that would have gone to Kirkby, and our fate is in their hands, not what stadium we play in. And please, don’t start with all the ’ Moving to Kirkby would have given us more investment ’ How? We would have had more debt on top of our existing debt, we would have had to fill the ground nearly every game, and fill all the corporate, to get what? A paltry £6m, that would have probalby gone on our interest payments. Over to you Gary.
Neil, Park End season ticket mate and had one in other places since 1980 when I could afford to buy one myself then, been going home and away since 78 so who are you to call us?
It is people like you and mostly yes voters who have turned this site nasty over the past hours, go and take you anger out at the luvvie who has fooled you again he’s a fraud.
And if you feel so angry go down county Road and spout your venom to the match going blues on Sunday say the brick as most of those like Colin malone said are happy with that verdict not all but most.
As for your ground share plan it would cost us more than redeveloping the Goodison.
It is people like you and mostly yes voters who have turned this site nasty over the past hours, go and take you anger out at the luvvie who has fooled you again he’s a fraud.
And if you feel so angry go down county Road and spout your venom to the match going blues on Sunday say the brick as most of those like Colin malone said are happy with that verdict not all but most.
As for your ground share plan it would cost us more than redeveloping the Goodison.
Paul Gladwell says that it’s the yes supporters who have turned this site ugly. Really - see Gavin Ramejkis about 5 mins after this was announced last night - "Taxi for that cunt Kenwrong methinks" - and how come all the anti Kirkby mob keep avoiding the key questions:
- What are your alternative plans PRECISELY?
- How do you plan to pay for this without lumbering the club with a huge amount of debt?
- If you do lumber us with a huge amount of debt how will that be paid back whilst at the same time investing in the team?
- Even if you think that this can be done do you seriously think that Moyes will stick around for the 5 plus years this would all take?
- If you don’t want Moyes to stay, who do you propose who would replace him who would be of the same calibre and prepared to work with minimal funding for players until the stadium is (a) built and (b) paid for?
- What are your alternative plans PRECISELY?
- How do you plan to pay for this without lumbering the club with a huge amount of debt?
- If you do lumber us with a huge amount of debt how will that be paid back whilst at the same time investing in the team?
- Even if you think that this can be done do you seriously think that Moyes will stick around for the 5 plus years this would all take?
- If you don’t want Moyes to stay, who do you propose who would replace him who would be of the same calibre and prepared to work with minimal funding for players until the stadium is (a) built and (b) paid for?
Hang on Steve, wouldn’t Kirkby also have lumbered the club with more huge debt? Or are you one of the pro lads, who still think that we are getting it virtually free?
Steve, Gavin is not calling lads who are in discussion on this site pricks.
As for your questions, which are the questions we all need to ask.
Alternative plans? that is what our beloved Chairman should have had at the ready for when this happened, it is his club ,he is only the chairman as he once said.
Lumbered with debt?
I think Kirkby would have left us with far more debt mate, infact my opinion that 47,000 to make £6M a year was comical given our average over the years,added with the none goers and the shitty transport problem.
And dont get me started on the comedy exec boxes when we dont half fill the ones we have now, just where did you think these rich blues where coming from with the poor fanbase we have?
As for Moyes, I dont want him to go yet, he has done a great job but he is not at the moment and I expect he will walk at the end of the season has he has certainly lost his spark.
He has had money Steve and IMHO has wasted alot when it has come to the bigger buys and yet finds some crackers with buttons.
I respect your views mate and to be honest have had enough of some of the shit on here now, people will never agree and the sad thing is IMHO
the man who is the blame yet again has said jack shit AGAIN when it is his duty to speak first.
131 years now mate, dont be fooled that some knock back on an average ground will kill us.
As for your questions, which are the questions we all need to ask.
Alternative plans? that is what our beloved Chairman should have had at the ready for when this happened, it is his club ,he is only the chairman as he once said.
Lumbered with debt?
I think Kirkby would have left us with far more debt mate, infact my opinion that 47,000 to make £6M a year was comical given our average over the years,added with the none goers and the shitty transport problem.
And dont get me started on the comedy exec boxes when we dont half fill the ones we have now, just where did you think these rich blues where coming from with the poor fanbase we have?
As for Moyes, I dont want him to go yet, he has done a great job but he is not at the moment and I expect he will walk at the end of the season has he has certainly lost his spark.
He has had money Steve and IMHO has wasted alot when it has come to the bigger buys and yet finds some crackers with buttons.
I respect your views mate and to be honest have had enough of some of the shit on here now, people will never agree and the sad thing is IMHO
the man who is the blame yet again has said jack shit AGAIN when it is his duty to speak first.
131 years now mate, dont be fooled that some knock back on an average ground will kill us.
ok now the old romantics have finished ’dancing in the streets of Walton’time for a reality check.Where is your affordable alternative to Kirkby.It was not ideal,but it was the only way forward to enable our club to compete.Now-no new ground means no investment,no money for team building,no ambition,no motivation,no fucking nothing!If you were David Moyes(irrespective of the fact that he seems clueless at the moment)would you want to hang around anymore,there is no point because he aint gonna be able to improve us anymore with no money.But hey its all ok because we are still at Goodison,which is nothing more than medieval.Last time I was in the upper glwadys I thought I was going to have to pee through a hole in the wall on to the road below,Ive seen more modern castles,but its full of history so thats alright.Thats the problem with this club,its full of history and nothing else.I have been a regular for 25 years so dont tell me I dont know what Im talking about.I despair of the attitude of some supporters who are so blinkered to progress.It would be fantastic to renovate the old lady but it is just not possible.Now we face the start of the end of our club in my humble oppinion.I cannot see us ever winning anything ever again and it is so depressing to know we have been so close to breaking through so recently.All the progress of the last few years is now wasted.As for bullshitter he has tried but has deceived Moyes and us with his lies and his position is now untenable.He has to leave.And as for KEIOC what positives have those bunch of tossers put forward that is realistic,and dont fucking get me started on a groundshare....
I think we all need to think of something that is deliverable don’t we. Oh hang on a minute Kirkby was deliverable....
I don’t often post on the site, preferring to be a reader rather than a ’mover and shaker’, my last offerings were related to subjects upon which I could claim some knowledge over the state of Everton football Club Company Limited (EFC), specifically dealing with company matters which could impinge upon the day to day affairs of the club. However, I feel able to comment upon the decision of the SOS concerning the application we know as DK.
In my view this is a political decision. Kirkby is (along with possibly Wigan) a rock solid safe labour stronghold and represents two jewels in the labour ’crown’. I get the impression that local party soundings indicated that DK was splitting the labour vote. For a party as beleaguered as labour this turns what is normally trivial (i,e, ’Kirkby safe as houses’) to (’could Kirkby become a marginal seat roundabout May time 2010’). I gather that other parties are conjoining to allow a single concerted opposition to labour in this seat. Now bear with me.....Is Gordon Brown going to allow a mid level football club and a grocery store to upset what has been a ’given’ for labour in any election fight? If you don’t rate Brown as a PM at least give some kudos to his advisers who will most certainly rehearse the prospect and its ramifications for the party come May 2010.
I think the answer had to be no. I mean there are so many ’reasons why’; I gather Denham has come out with a neutral line and quoted the inquiry results and the breach of Unitary policy. Well OK, I suppose so...it sounds pretty convincing and will keep the Kirkby stronghold intact. Be in no doubt, if a general election was not an issue, the answer could have been yes. I know the proposal breaches almost every policy that is in place for the area; ’Liverpool one’ breached one or two but still went ahead. I think we ’posters’ are relying upon the planning application, the resultant inquiry and the comments and counter arguments of KEIOC (among others) to perhaps ’muddy the waters’ a little. Of course the board of EFC love this; it creates confusion and dissent; just what it needs when it’s trying to confuse the enemy. Enemy? The clubs own supporters? Read on.....
I thought that, due to the furore surrounding DK and the virulent discussion that ensued on TFW and elsewhere I would take a close look at the entire saga, from application to rejection. I have a day job so most of my study occurred after hours, hence this ’late’ post. I am grateful to KEIOC for supplying documents via their website; I am grateful to EFC for supplying absolutely nothing of merit.
My (I appreciate contentious) thoughts are this. DK was the worst decision to have been attempted to be foisted upon this club and its supporters since:
Dixie Dean was sold to Notts County for £2,000 by Theo Kelly in 1938.
Gordon Lee sold Duncan McKenzie and Bruce Rioch shortly after his arrival at Goodison.
Why? For the answer I will attempt to enter the mind of the potential buyer of the club....I am CEO of a successful business with global aspirations , money is not really a problem since what we don’t possess ourselves we can raise through the European and World markets, we are AAA rated which helps. What I want is a UK sporting brand I can attach my own brand to in order to truly globalise the twin aspirations.
I need value. Therefore I want a club with an impeccable history, peer credentials, but one that has not, through poor continuing management over the years, maximized its potential both in the UK and European markets. A stadium? Not really. If I want one I’ll organize one on my company’s terms. There is one overriding factor which must be in place before I continue my interest. The performance of the team on the park. there are lots of things I can influence but I can’t influence this immediately. The team must contain talent; management must be aspirational and have evidenced this by the performance on the park. A top four finish? Ideally. Domestic Trophies within say three years? Certainly. Europa cup constant qualification? Definitely. Now where do they play? In a stadium which has seen better days but has a history I can hang the brand on......OR a small stadium 9 miles from the catchment next to a grocery store. What’s my decision? Why MK Dons of course. Great stadium already. Aspirations after a time of great upheaval. A reasonably supine board of directors, no trophies yet admittedly but, - its a steal.....
EFC sadly saddled with Kirkby isn’t, coupled with a far from supine but ineffective board of directors whose ineptitude is only matched by its arrogance. I’m speculating wildly on the MK Dons bit but do you get the picture?
Whilst EFC continue to conduct their performance in the premier league in the way they have been it doesn’t matter a Penguins’ chuff where they play. The performance on the park is everything. The rest is negotiation. One thing’s for sure; any potential buyer’s first act will be to attempt to extricate EFC from the financial ’basket case’ it is at the minute. I’ll probably do another post on this (unless everyone’s fed up) since I have not only access the club’s public documents but have been given access to documents not in the public domain. Please don’t challenge me on the provider, they were offered in confidence and that confidence will be respected.
COYB (provided the team and manager pull their socks up)
In my view this is a political decision. Kirkby is (along with possibly Wigan) a rock solid safe labour stronghold and represents two jewels in the labour ’crown’. I get the impression that local party soundings indicated that DK was splitting the labour vote. For a party as beleaguered as labour this turns what is normally trivial (i,e, ’Kirkby safe as houses’) to (’could Kirkby become a marginal seat roundabout May time 2010’). I gather that other parties are conjoining to allow a single concerted opposition to labour in this seat. Now bear with me.....Is Gordon Brown going to allow a mid level football club and a grocery store to upset what has been a ’given’ for labour in any election fight? If you don’t rate Brown as a PM at least give some kudos to his advisers who will most certainly rehearse the prospect and its ramifications for the party come May 2010.
I think the answer had to be no. I mean there are so many ’reasons why’; I gather Denham has come out with a neutral line and quoted the inquiry results and the breach of Unitary policy. Well OK, I suppose so...it sounds pretty convincing and will keep the Kirkby stronghold intact. Be in no doubt, if a general election was not an issue, the answer could have been yes. I know the proposal breaches almost every policy that is in place for the area; ’Liverpool one’ breached one or two but still went ahead. I think we ’posters’ are relying upon the planning application, the resultant inquiry and the comments and counter arguments of KEIOC (among others) to perhaps ’muddy the waters’ a little. Of course the board of EFC love this; it creates confusion and dissent; just what it needs when it’s trying to confuse the enemy. Enemy? The clubs own supporters? Read on.....
I thought that, due to the furore surrounding DK and the virulent discussion that ensued on TFW and elsewhere I would take a close look at the entire saga, from application to rejection. I have a day job so most of my study occurred after hours, hence this ’late’ post. I am grateful to KEIOC for supplying documents via their website; I am grateful to EFC for supplying absolutely nothing of merit.
My (I appreciate contentious) thoughts are this. DK was the worst decision to have been attempted to be foisted upon this club and its supporters since:
Dixie Dean was sold to Notts County for £2,000 by Theo Kelly in 1938.
Gordon Lee sold Duncan McKenzie and Bruce Rioch shortly after his arrival at Goodison.
Why? For the answer I will attempt to enter the mind of the potential buyer of the club....I am CEO of a successful business with global aspirations , money is not really a problem since what we don’t possess ourselves we can raise through the European and World markets, we are AAA rated which helps. What I want is a UK sporting brand I can attach my own brand to in order to truly globalise the twin aspirations.
I need value. Therefore I want a club with an impeccable history, peer credentials, but one that has not, through poor continuing management over the years, maximized its potential both in the UK and European markets. A stadium? Not really. If I want one I’ll organize one on my company’s terms. There is one overriding factor which must be in place before I continue my interest. The performance of the team on the park. there are lots of things I can influence but I can’t influence this immediately. The team must contain talent; management must be aspirational and have evidenced this by the performance on the park. A top four finish? Ideally. Domestic Trophies within say three years? Certainly. Europa cup constant qualification? Definitely. Now where do they play? In a stadium which has seen better days but has a history I can hang the brand on......OR a small stadium 9 miles from the catchment next to a grocery store. What’s my decision? Why MK Dons of course. Great stadium already. Aspirations after a time of great upheaval. A reasonably supine board of directors, no trophies yet admittedly but, - its a steal.....
EFC sadly saddled with Kirkby isn’t, coupled with a far from supine but ineffective board of directors whose ineptitude is only matched by its arrogance. I’m speculating wildly on the MK Dons bit but do you get the picture?
Whilst EFC continue to conduct their performance in the premier league in the way they have been it doesn’t matter a Penguins’ chuff where they play. The performance on the park is everything. The rest is negotiation. One thing’s for sure; any potential buyer’s first act will be to attempt to extricate EFC from the financial ’basket case’ it is at the minute. I’ll probably do another post on this (unless everyone’s fed up) since I have not only access the club’s public documents but have been given access to documents not in the public domain. Please don’t challenge me on the provider, they were offered in confidence and that confidence will be respected.
COYB (provided the team and manager pull their socks up)
Paul,
A cogent argunment as to wy we’re more attractive at Goodison ...
And one which is obvious to anyone with half a brain....unfortunately most yes voters on this thread fail this test - they’re still asking for alternative stadium plans in order to qualify valid criticism of Kirkby....
A tragic lack of sense.
A cogent argunment as to wy we’re more attractive at Goodison ...
And one which is obvious to anyone with half a brain....unfortunately most yes voters on this thread fail this test - they’re still asking for alternative stadium plans in order to qualify valid criticism of Kirkby....
A tragic lack of sense.
Personally, I thought there were big risks with DK, which came out very clearly in the inquiry. However, the good news if it really IS dead now, perhaps we can all be back on the same side,again?
In response to Neil Richardson - season ticket in Park End for years, before that Gladwys Street, before that Main Stand, before that too young to go. I won’t even go there on the tickets and games I’ve also paid through the nose for away games over the years, league, cup and european games.
Steve Callan, I stand by my viewpoint on BK as being completely out of his depth and a lying two faced toerag not fit to run this club. How many times does he have to royally fuck it up before you lose faith in him or do his credentials a la "boy’s pen", etc mean more than running the business into the ground with years of mismanagement? Who is ultimately responsible for making Everton Football Club a profitable enterprise Steve? Does BK not employ a CEO and staff to undertake his long, medium and short term strategic business plans for the club in order to make a profit? Is he not ultimately responsible for everything that goes on at the club, effectively where the buck stops?
The abhorrent methods used to promote DK were an absolute disgrace and affront to many people myself included, others fell for the lies, many chose not to vote at all. The decision to veto the plan was down to blatant ignorance of Regional Spatial Strategy guidelines which all bodies such as KMBC are fully aware of. In this particular instance KMBC deliberately ignored them and pressed on with the project, for whatever reason I believe at that point you have failed your project to failure - you can’t ignore statutory compliance, KMBC is not Central Government, it will never make decisions at that level. KEIOC, fans signing petitions and emails and letters sent to the various government offices and MPs merely added a voice to the underlying, incontravertible terminal flaw in this whole debacle.
BK for whatever reason should be capable of seeking legal clarity on whether or not this project was deliverable, similarly he should also have had contigencies for failure to deliver as any project should be monitored from inception and project initiation documentation through each phase right to delivery, yet still be capable of being canned as it no longer meets the original mandate for it. In laypersons terms, the virtually free (fail), excellent access (fail), multi profit stream through off field concerts etc (fail). With those key elements alone failing you have to ask how this project would still deliver guaranteed sufficient income, it has to be guaranteed as it’s got to be paid back, to make it at all worthwhile incurring significant additional debt to continue. An exit strategy for BK and his board of "true blues" isn’t a good enough answer unless he cuts the "true blue" conveniant propoganda and admits its just his exit strategy.
Steve Callan, I stand by my viewpoint on BK as being completely out of his depth and a lying two faced toerag not fit to run this club. How many times does he have to royally fuck it up before you lose faith in him or do his credentials a la "boy’s pen", etc mean more than running the business into the ground with years of mismanagement? Who is ultimately responsible for making Everton Football Club a profitable enterprise Steve? Does BK not employ a CEO and staff to undertake his long, medium and short term strategic business plans for the club in order to make a profit? Is he not ultimately responsible for everything that goes on at the club, effectively where the buck stops?
The abhorrent methods used to promote DK were an absolute disgrace and affront to many people myself included, others fell for the lies, many chose not to vote at all. The decision to veto the plan was down to blatant ignorance of Regional Spatial Strategy guidelines which all bodies such as KMBC are fully aware of. In this particular instance KMBC deliberately ignored them and pressed on with the project, for whatever reason I believe at that point you have failed your project to failure - you can’t ignore statutory compliance, KMBC is not Central Government, it will never make decisions at that level. KEIOC, fans signing petitions and emails and letters sent to the various government offices and MPs merely added a voice to the underlying, incontravertible terminal flaw in this whole debacle.
BK for whatever reason should be capable of seeking legal clarity on whether or not this project was deliverable, similarly he should also have had contigencies for failure to deliver as any project should be monitored from inception and project initiation documentation through each phase right to delivery, yet still be capable of being canned as it no longer meets the original mandate for it. In laypersons terms, the virtually free (fail), excellent access (fail), multi profit stream through off field concerts etc (fail). With those key elements alone failing you have to ask how this project would still deliver guaranteed sufficient income, it has to be guaranteed as it’s got to be paid back, to make it at all worthwhile incurring significant additional debt to continue. An exit strategy for BK and his board of "true blues" isn’t a good enough answer unless he cuts the "true blue" conveniant propoganda and admits its just his exit strategy.
The issue of whether Everton are more attractive at Goodison or Kirkby is vaccuous. One is not right and the other is not wrong. It is entirely an issue in the eye of the prospective beholder.
If a reasonably rich individual (or group of) is looking at Everton as an investment entity in itself then the value and asset base of the club IS important. In this context a club with a new 50,000 seater stadium & improved revenue stream, and realised asset value from sales of Goodison,Bellefield, naming rights etc, is inherently more valuable than where we are now.
But if the party looking to buy is a multi billionaire looking for a branding outlet (such as Sheik Mansour & the Abu Dhabi boys) then the stadium isn’t the be all & end all because they have the wealth to do pretty much what they want & £300m or whatever is required for a stadium won’t be that much of an issue.
And likewise, in the unlikely event that Mr Deripaska wanted to do what his billionaire friend Abramovich has done and buy an EPL club for (alleged) money laundering and personal titilation then, again, the stadium wouldn’t be much of an issue.
I have to say the purchase of Man City is bizarre. It’s a club with not much history or prestige and almost always in the shadow of Man Utd. One might have thought that a multi billionaire looking for a strong global branding vehicle would snare a London club, or ManU, or dare I say it the dark side. Maybe City were just very well represented and expertly sold. Whatever, I remain somewhat perplexed by Abu Dhabi’s new sporting favourite.
I’m not interested in being owned by a billionaire (more below), but for those that are then we face an uphill struggle. There are obvious reasons why:
- Proximity of the dark side and their long & international pedigree.
- Not being in London.
- A very low average spend per fan.
- No groundswell of membership, waiting list etc.
- And of course the things we don’t know, such as the price, conditions & whatever else expected by current major shareholders.
It is possible to be a die-hard Evertonian and also to acknowledge that we are not the club we used to be. To suggest otherwise is asinine. In some regards we remain a Rolls Royce club, as the Independent generously tagged us today. And the fact that this shittiest of weeks for Everton has prompted the amount of coverage it has in almost all the serious papers is proof that we are hanging on to our prestige.....just. But sometimes hard facts just have to be faced.
We have come out of this week looking dim & desperate. I don’t approve of Elstone immediately musing on the possibility of ground sharing. It is patently obvious that a LOT of work needs to be done on Liverpool and especially their fuckwit owners before this has the remotest chance of even reaching the planning stage. Everton’s stock has dived this week due to on & off field events. It is self evident that there is no real Plan B (shocking in itself), bit in it’s absence I prefer the club to just shut the fuck up unless and until they have something meaningful to say. To do otherwise would be to undermine Everton FC even further.
And as regards to the ownership and investment thing, well, I take a different path. Arsenal, Barcelona, German clubs are my model, not the warped monster that is Man City, or Chelsea. I take the view that a club should make or break itself. If the fans don’t want to come and spend their money then why should a rich party come along and subsidise their club?
I was intrigued to discover that all Bundesliga clubs HAVE to be at least 50% owned by their fans. How cool is that? Assuming of course that the fans are interested. But in Germany you find beautiful stadia, big stadia, full most weeks with massive crowds, a meritocratic league where any team really can have a chance. This season Bayern are 7th & struggling. Little Hoffenheim are again going for it (I want their manager by the way). It’s a completely different model, by the fans, for the fans, for the sport.
The stadium issue is tragic. It’s been 13 years of bollocks and I think most of us have had enough. Given the problems in raising finance, our small asset base, our relatively small fan base, the absence of any public/private stadia initiatives in the UK and everything else, I think we’re just gonna have to get used to being paupers.
Everton has a long history of innovation and it’s innovation, on and off the field, which is desperately needed now. A way has to be found to take this great club forward and stop it slipping closer to the edge. The first thing to do when in a hole is stop digging, then acknowledge the scale of the hole you are in, then plan your way out of it. The blinkers need to come off and we need to acknowledge exactly where we are, together, club and fans. Only then, I believe, can this club go forward.
Time for candour, for transparency, for dialogue and for togetherness.
If a reasonably rich individual (or group of) is looking at Everton as an investment entity in itself then the value and asset base of the club IS important. In this context a club with a new 50,000 seater stadium & improved revenue stream, and realised asset value from sales of Goodison,Bellefield, naming rights etc, is inherently more valuable than where we are now.
But if the party looking to buy is a multi billionaire looking for a branding outlet (such as Sheik Mansour & the Abu Dhabi boys) then the stadium isn’t the be all & end all because they have the wealth to do pretty much what they want & £300m or whatever is required for a stadium won’t be that much of an issue.
And likewise, in the unlikely event that Mr Deripaska wanted to do what his billionaire friend Abramovich has done and buy an EPL club for (alleged) money laundering and personal titilation then, again, the stadium wouldn’t be much of an issue.
I have to say the purchase of Man City is bizarre. It’s a club with not much history or prestige and almost always in the shadow of Man Utd. One might have thought that a multi billionaire looking for a strong global branding vehicle would snare a London club, or ManU, or dare I say it the dark side. Maybe City were just very well represented and expertly sold. Whatever, I remain somewhat perplexed by Abu Dhabi’s new sporting favourite.
I’m not interested in being owned by a billionaire (more below), but for those that are then we face an uphill struggle. There are obvious reasons why:
- Proximity of the dark side and their long & international pedigree.
- Not being in London.
- A very low average spend per fan.
- No groundswell of membership, waiting list etc.
- And of course the things we don’t know, such as the price, conditions & whatever else expected by current major shareholders.
It is possible to be a die-hard Evertonian and also to acknowledge that we are not the club we used to be. To suggest otherwise is asinine. In some regards we remain a Rolls Royce club, as the Independent generously tagged us today. And the fact that this shittiest of weeks for Everton has prompted the amount of coverage it has in almost all the serious papers is proof that we are hanging on to our prestige.....just. But sometimes hard facts just have to be faced.
We have come out of this week looking dim & desperate. I don’t approve of Elstone immediately musing on the possibility of ground sharing. It is patently obvious that a LOT of work needs to be done on Liverpool and especially their fuckwit owners before this has the remotest chance of even reaching the planning stage. Everton’s stock has dived this week due to on & off field events. It is self evident that there is no real Plan B (shocking in itself), bit in it’s absence I prefer the club to just shut the fuck up unless and until they have something meaningful to say. To do otherwise would be to undermine Everton FC even further.
And as regards to the ownership and investment thing, well, I take a different path. Arsenal, Barcelona, German clubs are my model, not the warped monster that is Man City, or Chelsea. I take the view that a club should make or break itself. If the fans don’t want to come and spend their money then why should a rich party come along and subsidise their club?
I was intrigued to discover that all Bundesliga clubs HAVE to be at least 50% owned by their fans. How cool is that? Assuming of course that the fans are interested. But in Germany you find beautiful stadia, big stadia, full most weeks with massive crowds, a meritocratic league where any team really can have a chance. This season Bayern are 7th & struggling. Little Hoffenheim are again going for it (I want their manager by the way). It’s a completely different model, by the fans, for the fans, for the sport.
The stadium issue is tragic. It’s been 13 years of bollocks and I think most of us have had enough. Given the problems in raising finance, our small asset base, our relatively small fan base, the absence of any public/private stadia initiatives in the UK and everything else, I think we’re just gonna have to get used to being paupers.
Everton has a long history of innovation and it’s innovation, on and off the field, which is desperately needed now. A way has to be found to take this great club forward and stop it slipping closer to the edge. The first thing to do when in a hole is stop digging, then acknowledge the scale of the hole you are in, then plan your way out of it. The blinkers need to come off and we need to acknowledge exactly where we are, together, club and fans. Only then, I believe, can this club go forward.
Time for candour, for transparency, for dialogue and for togetherness.
I spent some time reading many of the posts and its a very depressing read. Then, right at the end I got to Alan Kirwin’s piece and my only real criticism was why it wasn’t at the head of this list !
i voted "yes". I was immediately rounded on by no voters and frankly over the months that immediately followed the vote the vitriolic treatment of the few brave enough to own up to voting yes was an absolute disgrace. We suddenly went from people exercising a democratic right (of sorts) to demons and worse.....we were "not fit fit to be Evertonians". Much of this was delivered by people who were NOT part of KEIOC or even tagged as leading no-vote campaigners. But I have to say that having been branded as "sheep" and pretty worthless to boot you tend to shy away from reasoned debate. So for this reason and only this I do find it bizare that people are complaining about "yes" voters giving out stick and whinging.......we have been taking stick for a year, ceaselessly and some it personal and unpleasant in the extreme. If you dish it out be prepared to get some back and move on.
BUT......none of that is about the real issue.
I got this wrong. Not because I was wrong to think that moving a few hundred yards outside the city boundary wasnt an issue to me...it wasnt, it isnt and I totally disagree with all the heritage stuff......thats my view.....I really think we could have made a go of it at Kirkby if and only if the team was a winning one......and put simply that applies to Goodison......drop a league and we will be worse than the Toon.
I was not in my view wrong to speak out against the despicable individual that is Warren Bradley. In my view he led an unholy alliance of Councils who sought to crush Knowsley’s one shot at massive regeneration. City Region ? What a laugh. Liverpool CC opposed Kirkby because their rich friendly investors said they must.....protecting Liverpool One at all costs was the battle cry and sod Kirkby....nobody cares about the place or its people, end of and that includes Tesco.......but the truth is that competition is only ok when it doesnt mean competition that hursts you and Liverpool One is a classic example of how its ok to crush surrounding shopping centres between you and the Trafford Centre but woe betide anyone who thinks they can muscle in and create a better "offer", reduce travel for local people and widen a catchment area.
I wasnt wrong to think we need a new stadium of course, who is......but I was kidded by the pretty pictures and as the debate wore on I became less sure about my yes vote simply because the stadium itself sounded less like world class and more like low class, though personally i liked the "football" feel of the basic design. The transport issues looked more and more serious as the months went by and unlike some I thought the scheme advocates struggled against a growing weight of evidence that the stadium element itself hadnt been thought through quite as well as we would want.
So, how did i get this so badly wrong ? Simply that I failed to take in the stunningly basic set of govt policy reasons why the application was so unlikely to succeed. I was aware of the issue but thought that Govt would over-rule on the basis of overiding need for regeneration. Yet the outcome reports this week seem to me to suggest that failure was inevitable. Legal Challenge, or the threat of it, appears to be the sole reason why the Minister may have had to rule against the scheme despite an understandable leaning towards that jobs count and investment in a poor area at a terrible time of recession. If this really is true then how wrong can the mighty Tesco have been ? Is it just that they are so rich that these lost cause punts are ok and they proceed on the basis that one may come off ? Crazy. There just doesnt seem to be any rationale why the pro scheme group were so badly advised except an arrogance that assumed success merely because Labour would turn their back on planning policy.....a policy they helped create ?
Was I wrong to want something better for our club ? Was I wrong to want a decent view, away from the elements with good facilities and decent access ? I think not. But somehow I appeare to have missed the simple fact that many no voters may have grasped....it could never have succeeded.
Alan makes great sense in his post and we should all read it several times. We have to move on. How, im not sure. But sharing a stadium looks out of the question if only because Liverpool will simply never give up £150+ million naming rights. We have to find our own way. We have to do this without seeing the team collapse back into relegation fighters every year else everything Moyes has done will be lost in months.
Please give Robert Elstone a chance to make some sense of this week. He is light years a better CEO than Wyness and regardless of any view of the Board this guy has immense presence, real skill and the ability to manage his way out of this crisis.
In another world we might have beaten Hull and then Liverpool to rise above them and all this........but hey, this is our world, Everton’s world, and its the only world i choose regardless of all this rubbish. how naieve is that ?
i voted "yes". I was immediately rounded on by no voters and frankly over the months that immediately followed the vote the vitriolic treatment of the few brave enough to own up to voting yes was an absolute disgrace. We suddenly went from people exercising a democratic right (of sorts) to demons and worse.....we were "not fit fit to be Evertonians". Much of this was delivered by people who were NOT part of KEIOC or even tagged as leading no-vote campaigners. But I have to say that having been branded as "sheep" and pretty worthless to boot you tend to shy away from reasoned debate. So for this reason and only this I do find it bizare that people are complaining about "yes" voters giving out stick and whinging.......we have been taking stick for a year, ceaselessly and some it personal and unpleasant in the extreme. If you dish it out be prepared to get some back and move on.
BUT......none of that is about the real issue.
I got this wrong. Not because I was wrong to think that moving a few hundred yards outside the city boundary wasnt an issue to me...it wasnt, it isnt and I totally disagree with all the heritage stuff......thats my view.....I really think we could have made a go of it at Kirkby if and only if the team was a winning one......and put simply that applies to Goodison......drop a league and we will be worse than the Toon.
I was not in my view wrong to speak out against the despicable individual that is Warren Bradley. In my view he led an unholy alliance of Councils who sought to crush Knowsley’s one shot at massive regeneration. City Region ? What a laugh. Liverpool CC opposed Kirkby because their rich friendly investors said they must.....protecting Liverpool One at all costs was the battle cry and sod Kirkby....nobody cares about the place or its people, end of and that includes Tesco.......but the truth is that competition is only ok when it doesnt mean competition that hursts you and Liverpool One is a classic example of how its ok to crush surrounding shopping centres between you and the Trafford Centre but woe betide anyone who thinks they can muscle in and create a better "offer", reduce travel for local people and widen a catchment area.
I wasnt wrong to think we need a new stadium of course, who is......but I was kidded by the pretty pictures and as the debate wore on I became less sure about my yes vote simply because the stadium itself sounded less like world class and more like low class, though personally i liked the "football" feel of the basic design. The transport issues looked more and more serious as the months went by and unlike some I thought the scheme advocates struggled against a growing weight of evidence that the stadium element itself hadnt been thought through quite as well as we would want.
So, how did i get this so badly wrong ? Simply that I failed to take in the stunningly basic set of govt policy reasons why the application was so unlikely to succeed. I was aware of the issue but thought that Govt would over-rule on the basis of overiding need for regeneration. Yet the outcome reports this week seem to me to suggest that failure was inevitable. Legal Challenge, or the threat of it, appears to be the sole reason why the Minister may have had to rule against the scheme despite an understandable leaning towards that jobs count and investment in a poor area at a terrible time of recession. If this really is true then how wrong can the mighty Tesco have been ? Is it just that they are so rich that these lost cause punts are ok and they proceed on the basis that one may come off ? Crazy. There just doesnt seem to be any rationale why the pro scheme group were so badly advised except an arrogance that assumed success merely because Labour would turn their back on planning policy.....a policy they helped create ?
Was I wrong to want something better for our club ? Was I wrong to want a decent view, away from the elements with good facilities and decent access ? I think not. But somehow I appeare to have missed the simple fact that many no voters may have grasped....it could never have succeeded.
Alan makes great sense in his post and we should all read it several times. We have to move on. How, im not sure. But sharing a stadium looks out of the question if only because Liverpool will simply never give up £150+ million naming rights. We have to find our own way. We have to do this without seeing the team collapse back into relegation fighters every year else everything Moyes has done will be lost in months.
Please give Robert Elstone a chance to make some sense of this week. He is light years a better CEO than Wyness and regardless of any view of the Board this guy has immense presence, real skill and the ability to manage his way out of this crisis.
In another world we might have beaten Hull and then Liverpool to rise above them and all this........but hey, this is our world, Everton’s world, and its the only world i choose regardless of all this rubbish. how naieve is that ?
Well, Lord Denham just had to look
at this TW site, read all the ludites and KEIOC threads and that is how he made he,s decision.
Why is Keioc getting so much stick, these people spent their own time, which was a very long time.
Colin Fitzpatrick, Tom Hughes, you were EXCELLENT.
Can any pro Kirkby answer a couple of questions because i have not had avalid answer.
I get the train from Moorfields to Kirkdale around 2.15 to 2.30pm and its like a sardine tin as it is on the return journey.
The away fans get off at Lime street and make the short walk to Goodison.
How do we get to Kirkby?
We, aint got the Ormskirk or Southport trains that we used before.
Are the away supporters going to walk 9 miles? no.
So just one train with both sets of fans trying to get on. NOT SAFE.
Bill Kenwright 24/7 looking for investors during an exclusivity deal???.
If i was having trouble paying my mortgage, and i asked for investors to invest in my home but i still wanted to own it. would i get investors? Dont think so.
If i put my house on the proprty market for a BUYER, would i get one? yes.
So let hope in future as Alan Kirwin says. transparency, dialogue and togetherness and no porkies.
at this TW site, read all the ludites and KEIOC threads and that is how he made he,s decision.
Why is Keioc getting so much stick, these people spent their own time, which was a very long time.
Colin Fitzpatrick, Tom Hughes, you were EXCELLENT.
Can any pro Kirkby answer a couple of questions because i have not had avalid answer.
I get the train from Moorfields to Kirkdale around 2.15 to 2.30pm and its like a sardine tin as it is on the return journey.
The away fans get off at Lime street and make the short walk to Goodison.
How do we get to Kirkby?
We, aint got the Ormskirk or Southport trains that we used before.
Are the away supporters going to walk 9 miles? no.
So just one train with both sets of fans trying to get on. NOT SAFE.
Bill Kenwright 24/7 looking for investors during an exclusivity deal???.
If i was having trouble paying my mortgage, and i asked for investors to invest in my home but i still wanted to own it. would i get investors? Dont think so.
If i put my house on the proprty market for a BUYER, would i get one? yes.
So let hope in future as Alan Kirwin says. transparency, dialogue and togetherness and no porkies.
Mark, thanks for your words, just also wanted to say that I don’t actually dissent from your view of Elstone. My view is broadly positive on the guy. He is a good communicator and I believe will be good for Everton. It’s just that he cut quite a dejected figure this week when door-stepped on the DK decision.
In fact I think Robert’s demeanour almost mirrored that of David Moyes. There is a palpable sense of dejection about the club this week. Someone, somewhere, has to rekindle the confidence and self belief.
The question is who?
In fact I think Robert’s demeanour almost mirrored that of David Moyes. There is a palpable sense of dejection about the club this week. Someone, somewhere, has to rekindle the confidence and self belief.
The question is who?
Tonights echo.
Bill Kenwright says
Kirkby is a closed chapter. But still looking for investors FFS when is he going to use the word buyer?
Bill Kenwright says
Kirkby is a closed chapter. But still looking for investors FFS when is he going to use the word buyer?
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1 Posted 25/11/2009 at 19:22:46
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