The Mail Bag

The Crossroads is reached

Comments (31)

Wednesday night 25th November 2009 may well go down as one of the most pivotal dates in Everton's long history.

On the pitch, we were beaten last night by a poor team who just got the basics right. The results are now starting to match the performances. Players are starting to hide, are underperforming or just not good enough. All of those issues are down to Moyes and Round. If we do well for the rest of the season now, we will be lucky to get a top 6 finish and progress a bit further in Europe. On the evidence thus far both objectives are laughable and Moyes' himself has raised the spectre of a relegation battle.

We were all hoping that on the pitch, we would make a decent fist of competing with the Villa, Man City and Spurs. More likely we will be relieved to win some of our remaining home games, sneak the odd draw away from Goodison and survive.

Off the pitch, the evening was also memorable for the news on the DK decision. I had originally voted for the move, but increasingly found myself wishing I hadn't. So I had mixed emotions last night; on one hand I was sort of relieved (at least I wouldn't have to endure Tesco bags floating across the pitch on Sunday and 'The City's all ours' from the RS Norwegian brigade) on the other hand I could just see us teetering on a precipice, because, of course we don't have a Plan B.

It is this lack of an alternative strategy which is most damning for both Kenwright and also his management team. In fact it's 'criminally' negligent and a major failure in their duty as Directors and guardians of our great Club. In my opinion it leaves Kenwright and his fellow Directors lacking in all credibility and they cannot continue on that basis.

Worse still it has left Moyes with his hands tied. He will be fuming this morning and not just at the performances on the pitch. He will be feeling duped by Kenwright et al. He will now feel that he's kept faith, has not had that faith met and as such will understandably feel open to offers from elsewhere.

This mail isn't about whether he should stay or go, or whether he is the right manager for us after 7 years at the helm. It's about a crossroads reached, a tipping point, where events seem to be colliding to take the Club (and by implication us supporters) along a route which could otherwise have been very different.

I suspect that a rather large rock as just been thrown into our pond and it won't create ripples so much as tsunami waves. This might be for the good (new investment, new manager who continues our upward curve, new stadium in the heart of the City) or it might just be our worst nightmare (the perpetuation of the current regime, the erosion of the playing squad, a new manager who can't arrest the decline or manage on penny scraps and a stadium which falls down around our ears).

Let's hope it's the former and let's do everything we can to make sure it is.


Steve Guy, Harrogate     Posted 26/11/2009 at 10:36:20

back Return to the Mail Bag

Comments

Note: the following content is not moderated or vetted by the site owners at the time of submission. Comments are the responsibility of the poster. Disclaimer


Craig Taylor
1   Posted 26/11/2009 at 06:15:18

Report abuse

Firstly I want Moyes to stay but with talk on here that he should be sacked, and rumours that he is thinking of quiting i am just opening the debate of who would be best to take over at this point.

Hiddink is now free having failed to get Russia to the World Cup (I am sure he would be to pricey for us)

Darren Ferguson - Young Enthusiastic, done well in the lower leagues, available (cheap and someone that Kenwright would likely look at).

Alan Irvine - He has done an excellent job at Preston, Knows the Everton way.

Mike Homfray
2   Posted 26/11/2009 at 15:50:27

Report abuse

So, fantasy merchants, who wants to buy the club from Bill and the current directors? Particularly when it involves a crumbling white elephant of a ground with no development potential
Keith Glazzard
3   Posted 26/11/2009 at 16:08:41

Report abuse

The crossroads may have been reached - and it might turn out to be the half time whistle last night.

As for the stadium, without the Tesco millions we will be going cap in hand to the RS for help. Unless Liverpool (sorry for using that word) City Council have a better idea - any idea?
Simon Dunne
4   Posted 26/11/2009 at 16:49:43

Report abuse

Id like to see Dave Jones given a shot. Plays a nice brand of football with Cardiff..
Trevor Williams
5   Posted 26/11/2009 at 17:01:42

Report abuse

How can a player get a three match ban for serious foul play , miss 3 league games in November and still get the player of the month award ?

MADNESS
Andy Codling
6   Posted 26/11/2009 at 17:16:24

Report abuse

Craig you say Hiddink would be too pricey for us, are you forgetting Moyes is on 70 grand a week to churn this shite out week after week.
Keith Glazzard
7   Posted 26/11/2009 at 17:54:45

Report abuse

Serious foul play? Are you talking about Bily?

Why wasn’t Hunt sent off for stamping on Pienaar? Or at least carded for kicking the ball away thereafter. Refs are a joke.
Paul Gladwell
8   Posted 26/11/2009 at 17:55:28

Report abuse

A fancy merchant in my eyes is someone who actually believed we would raise £75M and get the average attendance of 47,000 needed to make a paltry extra £6M a year.
I live in the Everton real world just like the many of us who new the start of season we where going to have when Doddy was telling us all would be fine.
Keith Glazzard
9   Posted 26/11/2009 at 17:58:11

Report abuse

Hiddink might just have the footballing brain to look at EFC and think there is something I can work with.

His bumchum relationship with Chelski’s megarich oligarch (does that mean gangster?) owner suggests that he is heading for Walton - either of them, that is.
Keith Glazzard
10   Posted 26/11/2009 at 18:04:05

Report abuse

Oops -scuse me. Hiddink is unlikely to be heading to Walton is what I meant. Whether Abramovich should or should not be is no concern of this thread.
Dick Anderson
11   Posted 26/11/2009 at 20:56:12

Report abuse

Talk about dramatic. You could write for Eastenders with sentiment like that.

Wednesday night 25th November 2009 will not go down as a pivotal date in Everton’s history.

Its simply a date when Everton lost an away fixture. Thats it. We lost an away fixture by an odd goal.

A year from now we’ll hardly remember it.

Pop quiz hotshot:-

16th June 2008 remember that date? Everton lost at home to Blackburn on the opening day of the season.

30th June 2008? You remember that one? Everton were stuffed 0-3 at home by Portsmouth.

24th November 2008? Everton lose to Wigan.

The reason we don’t remember these dates? Because we went on to finish 5th and reach the FA Cup final. Nobody remembers the individual games no matter how disappointing they are.

The fact is Everton have finished 5th the last two seasons. Surely we should see where they end up this season before judging Moyes.
Peter Rogers
12   Posted 26/11/2009 at 22:38:41

Report abuse

Just been watching Granada Reports the first words out of the reporters mouth was "the future of Everton Football Club is in doubt" I just hope that all the guys at KEIOC are ready to kiss red arse to beg to play our games in there stadium as according to the report that is the only choice or face oblivion WELL DONE GUYS !!!
Alasdair Mackay
13   Posted 26/11/2009 at 23:51:06

Report abuse

I voted for the move to Kirkby in recognition if the fact that Goodison is a wreck by modern standards and it is hindering our progression as a club. I was not in love with the design or the fact that we were leaving the city, but I saw these things as necessary evils in bringing the club forward and I could get on board with them.

Under no circumstances can I get on board with a stadium share with LFC! If that ends up being the outcome of all this then the season ticket goes in the bin. I don’t think I am alone in this sentiment, either!
Mike Homfray
14   Posted 27/11/2009 at 00:03:59

Report abuse

But what exactly is on offer? Goodison can’t be redeveloped without moving the A580 and demolishing half of Walton. No other land or more importantly, co-investor appears to be available.

It is agreed that Goodison can’t stay the way it is - so for those who don’t want a shared stadium, what is the alternative?
Trevor Skempton
15   Posted 27/11/2009 at 06:58:01

Report abuse

Expanding Goodison to 60,000 requires the replacement of 38 houses and a redesign of the school. And it can be done in easy stages with no disruption to the playing season. People who tell you otherwise have a different agenda. Kirkby was always an unrealistic fantasy, breaking all established planning rules.
Steve Guy
16   Posted 27/11/2009 at 08:08:44

Report abuse

Dick (Anderson) you have missed the point. It wasn’t the individual match that’s the issue it’s whether it is a defining moment. We all DO remember the Middlesborough cup exit which ushered in the Moyes era. We all remember the Adrian Heath goal in the League Cup which saved Kendall’s skin. Examples of pivotal games and the Hull game could be one of them.

On a broader front, Dick, the last time stadia were an issue on Merseyside, it led to the birth of a second team across Stanley Park. Pretty pivotal I’d say.....and how ironic if our current malaise and their’s forced the two back into one stadium.

The mail was not judging Moyes specifically as I was at pains to say, I was just trying to get a little above the for and against arguments on any level (manager or Kenwright or stadium) and just point out that the next few months are critical to Everton’s long term future as the decisions which both Moyes and Kenmwright and his Directors make will affect us all for good or bad; we just don’t know which yet.
Alan Clarke
17   Posted 27/11/2009 at 08:10:15

Report abuse

After all this Kirkby debacle can anyone have any support left for Kenwright? If you voted Yes, he’s failed to deliver again on a project that promised you the world. If you voted No, he’s shown himself up as a liar and someone who tried to deceive the fans with a project that would potentially have ruined the club.

Either way he’s split the fans and fractured the club with this farce. He’s come up with no viable alternative or contingency plan by pinning all his hopes on a project bound for failure. He’s consistently failed to back his manager in the transfer market leaving it to the last day each time to disrupt his manager’s preparations for each new season. He has only kept the club afloat by selling the clubs top players - Rooney and Lescott. It is also likely our next up and coming star, Rodwell, will be sold.

Surely now, everyone can agree that this man is the root cause of Everton’s problems. He sits at the helm. It’s Kenwright’s mess and it’s about time we started holding him accountable.
Paul Gladwell
18   Posted 27/11/2009 at 08:31:26

Report abuse

Yes KEIOC damn you for letting us know more truths about Kirkby than The club did.
They where not my cup of tea at times, but good god our club told us nothing but lies and now because some Granada reporter says, 131 years of Everton is in trouble of dissapearing, i give up.
Craig Taylor
19   Posted 27/11/2009 at 09:17:59

Report abuse

Dick Anderson - No one remembers 16th June 2008 or 30th June 2008 because it was pre season and people were probably watching the euro’s.
Graham Atherton
20   Posted 27/11/2009 at 09:12:54

Report abuse

Trevor
If you are referring to the design that places a corporate entertainment ’block’ on the area now occupied by the school please clarify on the following:

How will corporate customers access their matchside boxes easily? - you have pictured one or two corridors feeding into one end of the ground which to my mind limits corporates to one section of the ground.

Where will these people park?


Where will the extra space needed within the stadium come from? It looks like the answer is to build upwards which is a poor compromise solution surely? Not to mention the houses on the opposite side of Goodison Road which will be looking out at an edifice? Right to light?

If we are planning to compete with the best then we need far more space. Occupying the whole of the land bordered by the 3 roads (Gwladys St, Goodison Road, Walton Lane) is vital to achieve parity. The ground or Goodison Road have to be moved to give us room unless you are going to build in mediocrity.

If being corporately entertained you need a decent view and looking out onto terraces isn’t it - it needs to have a direct view onto the ground.


Robert Elliott
21   Posted 27/11/2009 at 09:17:25

Report abuse

I agree with Alan Clarke. I was slightly more in the yes camp than the no, simply because, for whatever reason, we do not appear to have any alternative options. That being the case I was disappointed to hear the news on Wednesday night.

However, it appears from reading the rejection letter that it wasn’t even close. The fact that we’ve wasted so much time and so much money on a project that was obviously doomed is the fault of the club, not KEIOC or any other "No" voter.

At the end of the day, I don’t like to see any Evertonian rejoicing in the sad situation we now appear to be in. Being reduced to begging to share with the dark side whilst they take great pleasure in telling us where to go is humiliating.

If we’re looking to blame though, it should start with the board and not with our fellow Everton supporters. Because when all is said and done, the fans are clearly the best thing about this club at the moment.
Dick Anderson
22   Posted 27/11/2009 at 10:02:31

Report abuse

Craig Taylor

I was being ironic proving that even I couldn’t remember the dates correctly.

My point is we rarely remember individual losses and losing away to Hull by a single goal is not a huge pivotal moment. We’ll have forgot all about in a years time.

You have to judge Moyes on the bigger picturel. Lets see where Everton end up this season.

If we go from 5th last season to finishing 15th this season then there’s a case for sacking him.

But if we end up finishing in the top 7 (still easily possible) and having a decent UEFA League run then this Hull result will be just a forgotten statistic.
Alasdair Mackay
23   Posted 27/11/2009 at 10:56:12

Report abuse

Dick Anderson - alot of Evertonians point to one cup fixture in early 1984 that turned an Everton team from underacheiving also-rans to three trophies in 18 months. I am slightly too young to clearly remember it, but I have heard plenty of Evertonians talk about it in the past.

From more recent history - Palace away at the start of 2004/5. No Rooney, 4-1 defeat at hoem to Arsenal and 1-0 down at Palace, we seemed doomed, scored three goals, won the game and went on to finish 4th.

I am not saying the Hull game will prove pivotal, but it could. The manner in which the game panned out, being 3-0 down and coming very close to earning a point. A vastly improved performance on Sunday is what is needed and we may well remember the Hull away game as a turning point in years to come. Lets hope so.
Alasdair Mackay
24   Posted 27/11/2009 at 11:01:32

Report abuse

Also - to respond to an earlier question about what the alternatives are if we are not too share a stadium.

I accept that there may not be any, now. There will be no fantasy billionaire because we are still nowhere near the best investment in England. A new stadium will cost £100 million, plus paying off our debts and investing what is necessary in the team to get us to top 4 challengers totals £200 million conservatively. Coventry are a better investment than us. Newcastle, Cardiff, Leicester. From the Premier League Stoke and Hull. I would put us ahead of Forest and Bristol City, but only because of our Premier League status. Both teams have a similar potential fanbase and both need stadium invetsment in addition to debt control and squad investment.

So we are about 7th in the queue for a billionaire.

The Goodison footprint is too small and the redevelopment costs too great to justify this plan.

That being the case the two options may have been Kirkby or groundshare. Now Kirkby is gone we may have only one depressing option.

I just won’t go!
Tony Williams
25   Posted 27/11/2009 at 11:24:43

Report abuse

"are underperforming or just not good enough. All of those issues are down to Moyes and Round"

How’s the fact that the players are underperforming Moyes/Round’s fault?
Peter Rogers
26   Posted 27/11/2009 at 11:13:54

Report abuse

Paul, sorry about that, bit emotional after a few wines and all the shite that is going on. I DONT blame KEIOC for the decision i blame Kenwright and the board. I am not against a ground share where it is a 50% split but from most of the reports it looks like we would be asking to play our games in there ground which is not good enough for our club it has to be the time for the board to get off there fat smug arses and get the investment needed to move the club forward. As far as KEIOC are concerned you where right the plan was unworkable and i am sorry for not supporting you on that, but we still need to move or improve and we need the investment to do so. We need to unite and get the liars out of our club.
Alan Clarke
27   Posted 27/11/2009 at 11:45:23

Report abuse

Exactly Peter, nearly everyone must be echoing you now about the liars in our club. What can we do about it?

I’m quite happy to set up an online petition as a vote of no confidence in the present board, I just don’t know how to do it. I’d really love Evertonians to actually start taking some action against this twat Kenwright. If anyone else has any ideas I’m in full support. The press seem to love him and I’d like true Evertonians’ opinions to be known.
Alan Kirwin
28   Posted 27/11/2009 at 11:47:46

Report abuse

Tony Williams - just trying to work out if your post is a double irony joke or not.

When someone asks "HowÕs the fact that the players are underperforming Moyes/RoundÕs fault?" he’s either being rhetorical or thick.

You see Tony, Moyes is the manager of the club and Round is the first team head coach.

If you don’t understand the connection between these two and the players we have and their level of performance then please send me some of the drugs you are taking.
Paul Gladwell
29   Posted 27/11/2009 at 13:33:32

Report abuse

Graham , the shite are still intending to get 70,000 parked up in the same area mate so I am sure we would sort the extra parking of at best 5-10,000 fans and just where do you think the extra people where parking in Kirkby given the two mile walk we would all have had? Say what you want about Goodison but it has a well worked parking and transport system Peter so so right, it is time come sunday to end the bickering and unite as a fanbase as the damage that has been done is so wrong.
Paul Gladwell
30   Posted 27/11/2009 at 13:33:32

Report abuse

Graham , the shite are still intending to get 70,000 parked up in the same area mate so I am sure we would sort the extra parking of at best 5-10,000 fans and just where do you think the extra people where parking in Kirkby given the two mile walk we would all have had? Say what you want about Goodison but it has a well worked parking and transport system Peter so so right, it is time come sunday to end the bickering and unite as a fanbase as the damage that has been done is so wrong.
Brian Waring
31   Posted 27/11/2009 at 19:53:33

Report abuse

Your right there Paul. The club got the vote for Kirkby, after a glossy brochure and shit loads of spin.
Once they had the vote, you hardly heard fuck all from them again, and when you did it was just more shite,the only place you could be kept up to date for something on the move was on the KEIOC site, so much for ’ The peoples club ’ hey.

Add Your Comments

In order to post a comment to the MailBag, you need to be logged in as a registered user of the site.

Log in now

Or Sign up as a ToffeeWeb Member — it's free, takes just a few minutes and will allow you to post your comments on articles and MailBag submissions across the site.



© ToffeeWeb