Evertonians of your generation are a special lot. You stay loyal despite never having seen the greats.

At least blokes of my, very advanced, age have their memories to keep them warm.

For what it’s worth, I think you deserve a lot more praise for that, than criticism for a slip of the keyboard.

Personally, I think ’Spurs’ is a much dirtier word than ’yiddo’.

I wasn’t judging you in your last post, Mikey, and I shared your elation. To be honest, I think the editors should have helped you out. I know some Jewish Spurs fans and there’s no way they’d let me call them that.

I’m still a pessimist as well but I’m glad there are people like you. I’m not sure whether my mind set has been shaped by Everton from years of crap and false dawns.

Your enthusiasm is commendable Mikey but within the toffeeweb community you have all sorts of people, all sorts of mentality’s towards Everton & the staff. You got proper miserable whining gits, you got those that seem bi-polar depending on results & you got those that always try and pick a few positives out of the game.

I just wanted to say that you could type until you’re blue in the finger-tips & you’re not gonna change these people’s opinions, that’s just a fact. If you want to carry on being a reader of toffeeweb without becoming frustrated then you’d best learn to ignore the incessant misery that dribbles out of people’s arses round here.... well someone’s having frequent evacuations indicating gastrointestinal distress.. and it ain’t me, on this occasion ladies & gents, this is not a case of who smelt it dealt it..

Mikey Cummins - don’t feel to bad about the ’Yiddo’ comment. A few years ago I was a contributor on a football related website (Footie.com... now defunct) and had cause to question the term a few times - I was assured by some of the Spurs supporting contingent that whilst it was clumsy it was just about acceptable as it was a term they used amongst themselves. I wasn’t really convinced, didn’t like it then.. don’t like it now.

Mikey, I would just like to echo your sentiments; born in 1988, I too have never known an Everton who won league titles, who expected to win every game.

My Dad loves telling me about the eighties; my grandfather loved to tell me about the sixties. So far, I have nothing comparable to tell, no real stories of Everton greatness. Sure, we won the FA Cup when I was seven years old. But that was during our lowest point, struggling year after year through the nineties against relegation.

The stories I can tell are those of David Moyes’s era. As often discussed on this fantastic website, Moyes is by no means perfect. He makes baffling decisions and sometimes seems to lack a killer instinct. But it cannot be denied that, if he were to leave the club today (god forbid) his legacy would be one of progress and stability.

First, of making an ageing squad believe they could punch above their weight, and then creating a team that was deserving of top 6 finishes and cup final appearances — so much so that we now crave more.

David Moyes has built an Everton that looks up, not down; this Everton team has me believing that we can go further, that we can break that top four and win some silverware. David Moyes is only human, just like the rest of us; sometimes he gets it wrong. But these occasions are, I believe, in the minority. We now have a club that can push on and challenge the top teams, proven in recent games against City, Arsenal and Chelsea.

After years of struggle, I am still proud to be an Evertonian, and I believe, with David Moyes at the helm, we can progress further and once again be a dominant force in English football.

Mikey, the word ’Yiddo" is offensive, because it is racist, regardless of what context it is used in.

Just like to echo the sentiments of respect given to this generation of Evertonians, I have been fortunate to see some of our great teams and of course it does colour your opinion.

I watched the TV coverage of the semi-final against Man Utd, in the second half we began to push Utd back the Evertonians raised the roof with "We shall not be moved". As the cameras focused on the massed blue ranks I was struck by how many youngsters there were.

Stirred the blood every bit as the good old days I can tell you, respect to you all.

Nice one, Mickey.

I was born in the 1969-70 championship year, and similar to you experienced 14 fallow years. I was there just at the right age to experience that fantastic 80s team when it suddenly exploded into life. God it was great to know that we’d almost certainly win, week-in week-out.

Alas, it was not too be but I think this team is steadily getting closer. Maybe some of frustration we have with Moyes and certain players is that they are not able to push on as fast as that 80s team did.

But I must admit like you I’m particularly proud of this team. How many times have you heard other managers and players saying they have tough games coming up and mention Everton, with Arsenal and Man U?

Born in 1980 and have been a fan since 1987, although I was pretty young at the time. Have never experienced the great years and living in India, it's been hard following the progress of our team. It's much better now with TV coverage of football expanding.

I remember following our struggle to avoid relegation year after year and am relieved at the direction in which we are headed now. There have been blips after Moyes has taken over but the general direction has been up.

I enjoy reading about the views of Evertonians who experienced our glory days first hand — it makes the hair on the back of my neck stand on end. I hope that we can push on and become a force to reckon with once again in England and Europe. COYB

Yes, Mr Cummins. You really should be sorry for this... ehhh what is it called again. You know the word everyone uses, but no one knows the meaning of it.... RACISM!!!!!!

That’s right. You did not only call the Spurs, "The Yids". You also called Tim Cahill a "Blue Kangaroo, and Mikel Arteta for a "Little Spaniard". This is worse than I thought. You are nothing but a.... ehhh please help me here. You know the word for those people that express themselves in a way that has been fully normal since beginning of mankind, but forbidden since a couple of years ago.... RACIST!!!!!

Yeah... that’s what you are!
(At least, they say so in the book "PC-bible - Submission for dummies")

Simon Gilmovitch - "Mikey, the word ’Yiddo" is offensive, because it is racist, regardless of what context it is used in."

So you have read the book, haven’t you?
...and in the same context. Your name is Jewish/Hebrew regardless of what country you live in.

From the website answers.com:-

Both Jewish and non-Jewish fans of Tottenham Hotspur FC adopted "Yid" (or "Yiddo") as a nickname and "Yiddo, Yiddo!" as a battle cry and often identify themselves as "Yid Army". While such usage remains controversial, for the overwhelming majority of Tottenham supporters, it is used with pride.

Some Jewish Tottenham supporters use it with a political consciousness of the club as a bastion against racism and anti-semitism. Others use it simply due to the fact that many of the fans and owners of the club are Jews. However, the name was first given to the supporters as an insult, due to the large Jewish following at the club which is based close to the Jewish communities of North London.

The sometimes racist chant "Yiddo" is used to taunt the club when playing as well.

Kevin Spencer, What the fuck are you talkin about? Are you the village idiot or what? You think being racist is:

"fully normal since beginning of mankind, but forbidden since a couple of years ago"

You think having respect for other races, creeds and cultures is a form of political correctness!!!

Hahaha.... For fuck's sake I give up!

Stop with this PC shite. I’m from Italian stock and I don’t get upset if people call me a wop or talk about Tanks going in reverse. So let's move on please and talk about football.

Simon Gilmovitch: You were the one claiming that "Yiddo" is "racism". This means that the "Yids" is a race. And if the "Yids" was a race, it would be considered as some kind of hate crime (I suppose) if a whole crowd was chanting "Yids army". At least it would have been so if any team with a majority of white supporters had screamed "White army" during matches.

Tottenham is called "The Yids" Even by their own. If that name is good enough to call themselves, then I see no reason why we couldn’t use that against them. After all, we do that to every club. Liverpool call themselves "The reds". We call them "The Red Shite". Arsenal call themselves "The Gunners". We call them "The Gooners". The list can go on and on from Manure and Shitee to the Yids... (Oops I crossed the line there)

I almost forgot that there are certain things I can say, such as Steven Gerrard is a fucking cunt. But there are certain things that I can’t say, such as "The Yids". Freedom of speech anyone? One law for them another law for us maybe? What some people can sing with pride at White Hart Lane is totally forbidden elswhere!

If calling Tottenham, "The Yids" is disrespect to other races. Then, you really are a master of political correctness!

What’s next? If someone says "I hate the reds!" Will you be referring to the native Americans then?

Mein Got Mikey, you’ve got a talent for this. Look what you’ve done again!

Never mind - well done I say. You have lived through dog days and kept the faith - I’ll bet an FA Cup win about 11 helped a bit.

But relegation has faced us too often in your lifetime. We have a wonderful squad now, nearly all fully fit, and we go from here.

I could bore you all night about the greats - but we go from now, where we are, from here.

Looks good to me.

Kevin — antisemitism (as it was enshrined in English law) was well known long before the idea of ’race’ became applied to people in the USA after the abolition of slavery.

Race — as you are quite correct in suggesting — doesn’t exist, apart from in the minds of men. But as that is where it does exist, that is why racism is real. It kills many, and denies opportunity in life to many more.

Choose your parents carefully.

I have never said that race does not exist. Race exists and that is a fact. I wouldn’t say that Tony Hibbert and El Hadji Diouff were members of the same race...

Kevin - and which particular race do you belong to?

Careful now, as I have had racist discrimination applied to various parts of my family. So tell me, why I don’t belong here (which is the usual racist chant).

Keith - You seem to be very interested in something you don’t believe in. I suppose you are the first one on this forum to ask a question like that, and yet don’t believe in the question itself. I belong to the white Aryan race. What about yourself?

If race didn’t exist, how can you be so sure that your family have had such experiences as racial discrimination? I am not trying to offend anyone, but saying that race doesn’t exist but racism do, is like saying I don’t believe in ghosts but I believe in haunted houses.

You seem to be a very strange person. First you tell me to "be careful as you have had racist discrimination applied to various part of your family". Then you want me to tell you why you don’t belong here? Are you for real? That is like Micky Quinn and Neill Ruddock coming on here on this forum saying: "There is no such thing as beer bellies. The shape of the belly exist just in the minds of men. Be careful now guys, we have heard all the fat jokes and people have pointed out various fat parts of our bodies. So tell us. Are we fat?"

Sorry Keith, you just have do deal with your own problems. Just by asking such a question tells me that some part of you doesn’t think you belong here. THAT is not my problem.

If you believe the scientists, we all came from Black Africans, via yellow Chinese, off-white Indians, coloured Samoans etc.

So why are you all getting so politically correct?

Surely there are nicknames for us all..... White honky, shortarse, lanky get, slimey limey etc etc.

Wars cause far more heartache than nicknames and reading some posts on here I can see why the fools that started wars did it.

Grow up and get a life for God's sake.

To me, it's nothing more than a nickname and the rest is just a bunch of nitpicking.

I also has never seen a better Everton than the one that we are in now and even worse I’ve been following from across the pond... I was 9 when Joe-Max Moore first came to the Toffees and I’ve never looked back

I can't imagine everyone rooting for another club or hating another club more then the shite ... everyone from over here just likes Liverpool because of the Beatles. :p

We do get so hung up on words don’t we?

By choosing words to represent offensive thoughts and attitudes and declaring them unacceptable, we think we are solving a problem, when in fact we are only confusing and deluding ourselves.

For instance, some years ago, a black friend and colleague of mine told me that he had no objection at all to being called a nigger. After all, he pointed out, the word nigger was purely a derivation of the word for ’black’ common to many languages (negro, niger, nigre etc).

What he could not accept, however, was being disadvantaged BECAUSE he was a nigger.

And therein lies the difference. He was so very right! Even if we made words like ’nigger’, ’yid’ or ’paki’ illegal and put people in prison for ten years for using them... it would not solve the problem of racism!

That is where the Political Correctness brigade get it so wrong. They are aiming at the wrong target and are thereby wasting theirs and everybody else’s time and energy. It is racism that is wrong... not the latest or the oldest anti-buzzword.

It's nice to see that people are now beginning to stand up to the Guardian-reading, bleeding-heart, limp-wristed, holier-than-thou fucking liberals. Long may it continue. Maybe the tide is turning. I certainly hope so because I’m fucking sick of them.

What an enertaining read! I have been chuckling to myself reading some of this. Talk about people blowing something out of all proportion.

To me, this discord between the PC brigade and the anti-Liberals is a symptom of modern society. I work with a group of men who delight in telling anybody that will listen that our establishment is a ’PC Free Zone’. To this end, they now hang topless pictures in the office, refuse to take any notice of ’namby pamby’ H&S directives issued by our Head Office, tell racist, sizeist, sexist, non-PC jokes at every opportunity, but the difference is that they take the mick out of each other in just the same way. The short fella, the fat fella, the effeminate fella, the long-haired fella, the West Ham fan, anybody is fair game... and they actually get the job done and work really well together.

The women that work there have no issues whatsoever either. From my observations, a huge piece of common sense has landed there and maybe the future is more about that, rather than all this being nice to everybody bollocks which just seems to cause even more disharmony and inequality.

There is a strong reaction going on against all the PC stuff. I’m not racist, sexist, homophobic or any other form of bigotry, but I think most of us are heartily sick of being dictated to about how to think, feel and interact with fellow human beings. What started off with good intentions has morphed into something more sinister.

Gentlemen (and ladies), If someone disrespects you, whether it be by name calling, personal attacks, or innuendos, isn’t that the type of person we can choose to disregard? I always try to consider the source, and then cheerfully move on. Educated folks don’t play that game.

Now, let’s talk some football!

Go Timmy and Landon!

Mikey, I am quite a bit older than yourself. My memories of watching Bally play for us are still vivid and I was in my mid-late 20s during Howard's glorious reign (first time).

My best friend's son is a bluenose and is 21 years old and can only vaguely recall the ’95 FA Cup win but he still goes to every home game without fail and he often asks me about players he’s only read about: Bally, Latch, McKenzie, Lyons, Colin Harvey, etc .... He, like you, is a devoted fan, is made up at the moment due to the Chelsea win, a stark opposite to when I bumped into him at the Wembley Car Park last year after the final. He was crestfallen and according to his dad it took weeks for him to get over it ....

Which I suppose was how I was in 1977 after the League Cup Final... I have nothing but admiration for the Lads and ladies of your generation who still turn up come what may... I hope that we win the Europa Cup this year, for all of us but especially for the kids like yourself. And wouldn’t it be nice to hammer our neighbours in the final??

Anybody who uses the term ’PC’ as a convenient excuse for their ignorance should be shot...

First against the wall.

Ciarán

Nobody is saying there is an excuse for ignorance. But, you have to keep a sense of proportion.

This afternoon at Bolton in the Cup, 5000 Spurs fans were chanting ’Yids’ (in the Zulu style of ’Leeds’ )’ repeatedly all afternoon. In all likelihood, some of them were Jewish too.

If they openly refer to themselves in this term and the writer of the article was referring to Spurs fans with this term and not other members of the Jewish community, who might take offence, what is wrong?

Personally, I’ve always thought trying to solve a problem by shooting people or some other form of genocide betrays an ignorance in itself. Why shoot someobody you disagree with — you can always try taliking about it! :)

From the first page in the PC-bible:

#1 - Being PC is usually a "Person B", that needs "Person A" to think for them.

#2 - Being PC is also about "Person B" telling "Person C" what "Person A" just told "Person B" to think.

#3 - If "Person C" have another opinion than "Person A" or "Person B" - There is always some kind of law that "Person A" has invented to protect themselves from "Person C".

"Person B" is the soldier of "Person A", so he knows he is well protected. Therefore he will take every opportunity to have a go at "Person C". But as "Person B" usually don’t know what he is talking about, he is most likely to end the discussion by calling "Person C" a "racist".

Kevin,

Put this blindfold on....

Lot’s of Jewish people don’t mind the term ’Yids’ in relation to Spurs fans. But then again, some do find it offensive. I have to say I think that with regards to Spurs fans themselves, it isn’t meant maliciously. As such, it is usually not anti-semitic.

Personally when I hear the word I cringe. It has an awful ring to it and the connotations that can be drawn from it when fucking idiots use it and then whinge on about political correctness gone mad, makes me think in those cases, it is meant with a tinge of malice.

Somebody above pointed out that people like to hide their racism or anti-semitism (if you prefer) behind the backlash that political correctness is undergoing. I agree with that point. It’s like some people can’t wait to show their ignorance and pass it off as ’speaking up for common sense’.

These same people read the Daily Mail, often in secret. They know deep down that they’re tossers, so they search for like-minded souls whenever possible. You often meet them in social situation, when they will at first probe you gently to see if they have found another of their ’type’.

Toffeeweb has it’s fair share of these people, unfortunately.

THE END

What the fuck has this got to do with Everton?

Some people get offended by the term, some don’t... End of.

COYB

Kevin Spencer I remember engaging with someone spouting this sort of nonsense before, I’m guessing it was probably you. The ’fact’ (belief/opinion) that some people are too sensitive and take political correctness too far, doesn’t mean it was alright in the first place to spout your stupidity. You are not the ’free thinker’ where the rest of us are told what to think, to think so requires an unfortunately low level of understanding of so many things it's difficult to know where to start.

We are all influenced by everything we see and hear, our freedom comes in the choices we make in response to it. I freely think, of my own accord, that it's wrong to be racist, to treat some people differently, including insulting them, on the basis of a core physical trait that gives them an identity.

I don’t consciously identify with members of my own ’race’ more than I do with members of another race (we all do that unconsciously, there’s no point pretending otherwise). I don’t even know what my own ’race’ is meant to be. I’m English, and over at least the last 1500-2000 years that means being influenced by a lot of what would be considered ’foreigners’ on today’s maps.

An interesting quote: "Race — as you are quite correct in suggesting — doesn’t exist, apart from in the minds of men."

I’m not sure anyone quite grasps what this means. The idea that something "only exists in the minds of men" doesn’t have any relevance to its ’reality’, Race is indeed an invented concept, but it is based on everyday observations, mostly of skin colour, and a natural capacity and tendency to group things together, as dealing with everything on an individual basis takes too long.

This means that race is very real, a real made up thing that can be extremely important, depending what various people thing about it. Incidentally (or perhaps importantly) all of that also applies to the concept of ’money’ and, it could be argued, ’God’.

More directly though Kevin, there isn’t a ’PC Bible’, it doesn’t exist. What there is is a now overwhelming majority of people who try not to judge others on the basis of a physical trait, a manufactured identity or any traditional prejudices that could be associated with them. Most of these people also do their best to avoid casually using words that perpetuate these prejudices and mass stereotypes, as words affect what people think, as well as reflecting what they think.

Well said, Mike... now let's enjoy the peaceful silence whilst Kevin digests what you’ve written.

Nobody of any morality or intelligence at all could deny that racism is evil but the contention that anybody who believes that Political Correctness is a relatively worthless and counter productive side issue is therefore a racist is as bigotted as racism itself.

Political Correctness is not a solution... it only pretends to be one. The issue of racism cannot be solved by decree or pursuasion so Political Correctness was chosen as an issue that COULD be enforced in one way or another. Sometimes by the law and sometimes by the rules and regulations of PC terminology itself.

Science has a lot to answer for too. While it talks of the human race it also describes sub-divisions with racial characteristics. On the one hand Science tells us that we are all the same (the human race) but that on the other we are not because certain groups have characteristics only applicable to that group!

To pretend that these characteristics do not exist and that therefore race is only in the minds of men is not only wrong scientifically but has the opposite effect to that it hopes to achieve. Racism is made in the minds of men but this is in itself promoted by the self-same ignorance that proclaims that racial differences do not exist. The most effective weapon against racism is accepting the differences and promoting the idea that this does not matter one jot as, despite them, we all have equal value as individuals.

These differences should be celebrated, not hidden. As the French say in a different context....’Vive la Difference’. Only by recognizing and admitting that these differences exist and that thereby the true and complete wonder of humanity is revealed can racism ever hope to be defeated. By pretending that these differences do not exist and that ergo we are all the same is a denial of the truth and of that wonder.

Different racial characteristics should be treated no differently than any other human differences but political correctness ensures that it always is and always will be and that is why it is counter productive.

When Joey Yobo passed the ball to Rooney for that goal three years ago, somebody a few rows in front of me jumped up and shouted ’stupid black bastard!’ Exactly which of those three words were the most offensive? Is Yobo stupid? Is he a bastard? Is he black? Perhaps all were intended to be offensive by the shouter but perhaps only one of them is true. Joey is black and I see that as a compliment even if that was not the intention of the shouter a few rows in front.

Dave, I like what you’re saying but I have a difference in interpretation. Your third and fourth paragraphs in particular are what interest me.

In particular: "To pretend that these characteristics do not exist and that therefore race is only in the minds of men is not only wrong scientifically..." I would not disagree with you in saying that certain characteristics exist, and exist in different ratios/proportions/probabilities in different ’races’ but the concept of a ’race’ is entirely man-made. As I said, its man-made based on observable characteristics, and it can be generalised that, for example, black people have darker skin than white people, but my point is more that the idea of white people being ’a race’ is incorrect, scientifically or otherwise. There is no objective way to define the boundaries of who is black or white, these are invented concepts in the minds of men.

I agree that as a society at times we are too sensitive about racial differences, but this is a reaction to having not been sensitive enough at times. I’d say we err on the side of caution, which is an improvement on stereotyping and prejudging individuals on perceived common characteristics. The problem with recognising and celebrating the differences is that we have to generalise, which will lead to problems. For example, which ’differences’ are we going to agree on? If we say ’black people are more likely to...’ or ’white people can’t...’ or ’Indians don’t...’ then we are going to upset the people who identify themselves in that category but for whom the generalisation isn’t true. They also become self-perpetuating, which can be harmful for society, a perceived racial/ethnic group or an individual who self-identifies as part of those groups. This is why some of those differences get ignored, because its too complicated to take anything on a case by case basis and too ’dangerous’ or harmful to generalise, so the obvious compromise is to act as if there are no differences, because for any given individual, there might not be.

As for the ’stupid black bastard’ shout, the point of course is in his usage of the word black. Yobo is black, he would identify himself as such, but the point isn’t that he was called black, but that the word black was intended as an insult.

Dave,

Ahem...please assume the position against the wall.

You’ll be getting an extra bullet for the complete and utter nonsensical drivel and sophistry you’ve posted above.

Some people in here, really proves me right. But they don’t know it. Did someone say anything about a blindfold? That is why this is very interesting.

First of all. PC-people will always see or hear what they want to see or hear. In this case they have decided to see the "racism" when somebody said the word "Yiddo" about the Spurs. The same PC-people did however decide NOT to see the "racism", when a certain El Hadji Diouff shouted "Fuck off White boy" to one of our ball-boys.

The PC-brigade came to the rescue of Mr. Diouff that time. They also left a very clear message: "Never ever call us the PC-brigade"

This time, the PC-brigade is back again for the rescue of "the Yiddos". But this time, their message is even more clear than last time: "Those who uses the word PC will be shot".

I can see a clear pattern here. The PC-army want everybody to see that they are around here, looking for "Person C". But they work incognito (at least they think so). So, that’s why they get so upset if someone brings the PC-structure into the lights.

Mike Allison is next after Keith Glazzard the second person in just a couple of days, suggesting that I may have said that "race doesn’t exist, apart from in the minds of men." I wonder if that is some kind of strategy from you two, to put words into my mouth that I have NEVER EVER said!
I am sure none of you would appreciate if I went the same way, saying things like: "Hey, Mike Allison. Why do you constantly keep saying that you don’t like black people?"

Some people in here, "cringe" when they hear the word "Yids", saying that "fucking idiots uses that term". The biggest idiots may in that case be the Spurs fans, that "regardless of race" chants "Yid army" during matches. But the biggest problem, according to the PC-storm troopers, is that the "Yids" themselves, in any way may feel insulted by the chants of their own name.
Play with the thought and turn things the other way now. What if some Premier league team with a majority of white supporters chanted "White army" during matches. Would the PC-conquerors say: "The term white army is disrespectful to the white people. Only them can use that phrase. Otherwise it is racism against white people"
Do you recognise this? "It is OK when the jews calls themselves Yids, but if any other group of people call them that. That’s racism!" The same thing can be applied to almost every group of people.

Mike Allison - "You (Kevin Spencer) are not the ’free thinker’ where the rest of us are told what to think."

-Yes I am.... and YES you are!

Mike Allison - "I freely think, of my own accord, that it’s wrong to be racist, to treat some people differently, including insulting them, on the basis of a core physical trait that gives them an identity."

I haven’t insulted anybody. But you will still be calling me a racist, just because I am NOT a member of your "PC-club of submission."

How do you react when somebody say "Fat Spanish Waiter", "Ladyboy" or calling Rooney bald?
Or is that some kind of physical identity that you don’t give a flying fuck about? As long as they are not black or jewish, you can insult them as much as you like? Fat people, bald people... just bring them om. The PC-army will get at them. But don’t you dare have a go at the "Yiddos"!

"(You) don’t treat people differently." Yeah, right... tell me another one! That is only about being selective.

Mike Allison - "I don’t even know what my own ’race’ is meant to be. I’m English, and over at least the last 1500-2000 years that means being influenced by a lot of what would be considered ’foreigners’ on today’s maps."

The same can be said about most people on this planet. But with a big difference. Other people know exactly what they are. Even though the jews have never really had an own country, they still have a strong believe in their indentity. Even black people in America, that have lived there for many generations, see themselves as "Afro-Americans" They take identity and race seriously. You could never move to Africa and expect them to see you as an equal "African". But you will still see an African living in England as, as much English as yourself. No wonder then, why you don’t even know what your own race is meant to be. I don’t blame you. All I have said, is that I find that nothing but PC.

Why do you keep on talking about prejudice? By calling something or someone for what is is, is not prejudice. If someone calls "The Yids" for "The Yiddos". That is NOT prejudice! If you call Rafa Benitez fat. That is NOT prejudice. If someone on the other hand call a person "racist" just for letting a word such as "yiddos" slip out. That behaviour is PREJUDICE!

Mike Allison - "Most of these people also do their best to avoid casually using words that perpetuate these prejudices and mass stereotypes, as words affect what people think, as well as reflecting what they think.

That is, my dear Watson (Allison), nothing but PC in it’s finest form. You may call that prejudice from me... but it is not.

Mike Allison - "The problem with recognising and celebrating the differences is that we have to generalise, which will lead to problems. For example, which ’differences’ are we going to agree on? If we say ’black people are more likely to...’ or ’white people can’t...’ or ’Indians don’t...’ then we are going to upset the people who identify themselves in that category but for whom the generalisation isn’t true. They also become self-perpetuating, which can be harmful for society, a perceived racial/ethnic group or an individual who self-identifies as part of those groups. This is why some of those differences get ignored, because its too complicated to take anything on a case by case basis and too ’dangerous’ or harmful to generalise, so the obvious compromise is to act as if there are no differences, because for any given individual, there might not be."

You, Mike Allison are the true face of political correctness. You leave this "political blindfold" on because you are too scared to step on sore toes. This is almost hilarious. But wait.... you have some more comments. Here they come...

Mike Allison - "The concept of a ’race’ is entirely man-made. As I said, its man-made based on observable characteristics, and it can be generalised that, for example, black people have darker skin than white people, but my point is more that the idea of white people being ’a race’ is incorrect, scientifically or otherwise. There is no objective way to define the boundaries of who is black or white, these are invented concepts in the minds of men.


Now let’s enjoy the peaceful silence whilst Jay Wilson is off to London, celebrating this years big occasion for the PC-mob:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2000/sep/03/race.world1

I can’t believe I read all that... Your little reverse racism routine was amateur when Michael Ricards tried it... and it’s still poor.

There’s a big world out there... try and enjoy it.

Yeah it was definitely you last time!

Quote "Mike Allison is next after Keith Glazzard the second person in just a couple of days, suggesting that I may have said that "race doesn’t exist, apart from in the minds of men." I wonder if that is some kind of strategy from you two, to put words into my mouth that I have NEVER EVER said!"

No, I’m saying it. You obviously don’t read too well.
For the record, I’ve made no comment whatsoever about the use of the word ’Yid’, but I think where people find it a problem is not that all Tottenham fans are Jewish and call themselves yids, but that non-Jewish Tottenham fans, and then fans of other clubs, use a term that some consider offensive.

I think I’ve probably given you too much time already. Some of what I’ve said actually doesn’t chime with received ’politically correct’ wisdom but I don’t think you’d know that. Your post doesn’t seem to have a point, you keep quoting me and then not really saying anything above the playground "I’m right, you’re wrong". At the end you even quote me then can’t think of a comment. Is what I said over your head?

Coming from you I’ll take being the true face of political correctness to be a compliment, political correctness in itself is not a bad thing, but only when taken to silly extremes or at the expense of common sense. If political correctness is trying not to stereotype individuals based on their colour or ethnicity then brilliant, sign me up.

I’m not ’scared’ to step on anyone’s toes, I just don’t see the point stepping on someone’s toes when I won’t gain anything from doing it. If being educated, experienced, and having the privilege of knowing and mixing with people from a variety of cultural backgrounds is being blindfolded, then again, it sounds okay to me.

The prejudice question. Do you know what the words means? Look carefully at the letters... Do you see? It means to ’pre-judge’ (do you see it? There they are!)

So if I judge someone AFTER they have used a word (and remember, I actually made no comment about any particular words) then I am not ’prejudiced’. I judge you AFTER reading your comments, this is not ’prejudice’. To judge somebody based on the skin colour or ethnicity BEFORE knowing anything else about them is prejudice. Certain words, which perpetuate mass identities and their stereotypes therefore perpetuate prejudice, as well being an indicator that it is already in place, and so are best avoided. All this is quite apart from the simple fact that some people don’t like being called these things because of the history of behaviour and treatment associated with the use of the word.

First and foremost. Yes, I did quote you at the end of my last post. No, I was not speechless, but my answer to that one, got lost in cyberspace. I noticed that, right after pressing the submit-button. At first I did think about re-post the last part, but I did change my mind. I changed my mind because I thought the last quote of yours really spoke for itself. There was no need pointing out the obvious PC-proof in that one, as I found it almost like a confession from you. Case closed, I thought.

But as a formality, I give it another shot. Here we go again:

Mike Allison said: "The concept of a ’race’ is entirely man-made. As I said, its man-made based on observable characteristics, and it can be generalised that, for example, black people have darker skin than white people, but my point is more that the idea of white people being ’a race’ is incorrect, scientifically or otherwise. There is no objective way to define the boundaries of who is black or white, these are invented concepts in the minds of men.

OK, whether that was written by someone that is PC or CP, (or both?) doesn’t really matter anyway. But while we’re at it. Do you think men and women are just social constructions?
Do you think that the obvious differences between a bulldog and a collie is just something that is made up in the minds of men?
Do you think that Tony Hibbert and El Hadji Diouff are members of the same race?

Mike Allison said: "For the record, I’ve made no comment whatsoever about the use of the word ’Yid’, but I think where people find it a problem is not that all Tottenham fans are Jewish and call themselves yids, but that non-Jewish Tottenham fans, and then fans of other clubs, use a term that some consider offensive."

Yes, but as Everton supporters - Is it really our problem? Why do anybody care? People are always generalising, when it comes to other clubs. That is part of the fans-culture. We call Liverpool "Shite", even though we all know that neither the "club Liverpool", the "city of Liverpool" or the "fans of Liverpool" are all "shite". That is just a way of telling them what we think of them in general. It is as easy as that.
There is a song that seems popular witch goes "Manchester is full of shit". That is true. But that doesn’t mean everything is shit in Manchester. They probably have one thing or another that is not shit. BUT WHAT DO WE CARE?? It’s not like you go furious every time someone have a go at "the Gooners", "the Shite", "Chelski", "Manure", "FSW" or the "Ladyboy and so on. Your empathy is restricted to a few chosen ones... That is why I call you PC. It’s natural to taunt the opposition or the enemies or what ever we may call it. But it is not natural to feel guilt or shame about it. Humiliate the opposition is part of the culture that is football. The conclusion is easy to see. You don’t say: "Rafa Benitez is not fat. The shape of the belly exist just in the minds of men". and you are most certainly NOT going to say. "Don’t call people from Manchester "Mancs". It is very offensive and they don’t like that." The reason why you don’t say that or care about it, is that it is still acceptable by the society to say that. But the reason for you, defending Spurs supporters in this case, is just because the society does not find words such as "Yiddo" appropriate. Therefore, there will always be PC-believers like you that can chant: "Benitez is a FSW-redshite-whitetrash-gobshite-cunt but don’t you dare call Spurs, the Yids"

Mike Allison said: "For the record, I’ve made no comment whatsoever about the use of the word ’Yid’"

Okay, that may be true. But you have most certainly held a lesson about the "danger of racial prejudice", so there is no question what you think about the word "Yiddo".

Mike Allison said: "Yeah it was definitely you last time!"

That’s right. For a while (before you entered this thread), I was thinking: "It’s just a matter of time before my old penpal Mike Allison gets here. We have already set the table for him. The talk of race is the secret word. Then you turn up like a Darkwing Duck from the shadows. What’s more funny is that just after my story about "Person A", "Person B" and "Person C" (Where you are B and I am C), you arrived to have a go at me, just like the story told. Coincidence? Don’t think so

Mike Allison said: "The prejudice question. Do you know what the words means? Look carefully at the letters... Do you see? It means to ’pre-judge’ (do you see it? There they are!) (.....) I judge you AFTER reading your comments, this is not ’prejudice’. To judge somebody based on the skin colour or ethnicity BEFORE knowing anything else about them is prejudice."

You really are a master of prejudice. From two ways that is... You know how to spot it and you most certainly know how to use it. The problem is, you didn’t find anything to back it up. Correct me if I am wrong, but I can’t see where me or somebody else has been, (and now I quote you): "judging somebody based on the skin colour or ethnicity BEFORE knowing anything else about them..."
But then again, you have decided that all those who talks about peoples differences are racists. If that is not "PRE-JUDGE", then you have found a whole new meaning to the word "prejudice".

Mike Allison said: "Certain words, which perpetuate mass identities and their stereotypes therefore perpetuate prejudice, as well being an indicator that it is already in place, and so are best avoided. All this is quite apart from the simple fact that some people don’t like being called these things because of the history of behaviour and treatment associated with the use of the word."

And you didn’t have a problem stepping on toes? Okay Mike "Mother Theresa" Allison. You sing your gospel loud and clear: Peace, love and understanding is the watchword and your guiding star. From now on, I sincerely urge people to watch their language. After all, we have to stop saying "Red shite", as "some people don’t like being called these things".
Never ever call Mr. Benitez "fat", considering "the history of behaviour and treatment associated with the use of the word."
And please stop saying Liverpool supporters are some kind of Norwegian-army, as "Certain words, which perpetuate mass identities and their stereotypes therefore perpetuate prejudice, as well being an indicator that it is already in place, and so are best avoided."

Amen

Kevin,

Your grasp of science is about as tenuous as your grasp of humility.

I’ll skip to the end. The key point Kevin, that you miss so spectacularly, is that Mancs, Liverpool fans, fat people etc etc have never been discriminated against apallingly and systematically by any state or societal norm, whereas many racial, ethnic and religious groups have. There is no, or very little, danger in the ’banter’ you’re referring to and its part of a give and take that is almost expected within football. The same is not true of the other groups, whose existence and stereotyping are an issue that go beyond football and have caused very real pain, death and suffering throughout history. That’s why my ’empathy is reserved for certain groups’. Your attempt to compare them is pathetic, ridiculous and insulting.

As for your ’difficult questions’?

"Do you think men and women are just social constructions?" No there are clear and obvious physiological differences, although even here there are borderline cases, though these are rare.

"Do you think that the obvious differences between a bulldog and a collie is just something that is made up in the minds of men?" In a sense, yes, although this question misses the point of what I’m saying. I’m not saying they’re not different, I’m saying our classification of their differences is a subjective construct. However, in the case of dog breeds, there is probably clear genetic evidence that all bulldogs and all collies are more closely related to all others of their own breed than others outside the breed. This is definitely NOT the case with ’all white people’ or ’all black people’.

"Do you think that Tony Hibbert and El Hadji Diouff are members of the same race?" Again, this kind of misses the point. In what sense are you asking the question? Given that you’re attacking me for saying race is ’made up’ then they’re clearly not in a race are they? Having said that, most of us would subjectively categorise them as different, but that doesn’t mean we have to subjectively categorise them. Have you heard of Rwanda? The Belgian colonial powers invented two races, to make it easier to divide and rule, and called them Hutus and Tutsis. This was deliberately done, and related people were placed into different ’races’ depending on certain physiological characteristics. This didn’t stop them being real when one set of people massacred the other a few generations later.

I say again, race is a social construct, it is inaccurate and can be harmful. This doesn’t mean its not real, but it is becoming more and more blurred and borderline. You used Hibbert and Diouf, well, tell me what ’race’ (I want a name for each) the following people are in:

Johnny Heitinga
Leighton Baines
Jack Rodwell
Tim Howard
Joseph Yobo
Steven Pienaar
David Moyes
Landon Donovan
Tim Cahill
Mikel Arteta
Marouane Fellaini
Shkodran Mustafi
Ryan Giggs
W.R. Dean

I meant to add another name to that list, include:

Hibbert
Diouf

and look up Brendan Nash, West Indies cricketer.

I also meant to ask, who am I prejudiced against?

I’ve talked about the differences between people’s ’races’, and I don’t think I’ve called anyone racist. Find where I have and I’ll be surprised. You don’t read what I say closely enough and you do an awful lot of ’projecting’.

Mike Allison said: "Mancs, Liverpool fans, fat people etc etc have never been discriminated against apallingly and systematically by any state or societal norm, whereas many racial, ethnic and religious groups have."

Maybe so. But it is not so strange after all. The rivalry between Everton and Liverpool would not not have been, if it wasn’t for both teams being from the same city. The same principle can be applied to the terms of races within the same country. We have seen that, not only in Europe, but we also see it in South Africa, Zimbabwe, Israel and Palestine to name a few.

Managed to press the submit-button a bit too early.... more to come...

(Continuing...) My point from the above is that you have really singled out one or two groups that you think deserve your protection more than others.

And this is not about killing. This is just about a word! I feel there are more people on this forum taking much more offence from the word "Yiddo" (referring to the Spurs), than they did when El Hadjo Diouff said "Fuck off white boy", to one of our ball boys. Do the spurs-fans need more protection than our ball-boys?

To be honest. This is not the past. This is NOW. If you are talking about conflicts in other countries, many many years ago (perhaps you were not even born then?), I see no reason why you are sitting here (with no guilt) sixty years on, referring to politics on a football-site, protecting people that won’t give a flying fuck if somebody insulted you OR any other ethnicities either for that matter.

People move on. If they are not PC that is... (They think they have time-travelled back to 1939, trying to make a difference.)

Mike Allison said: "However, in the case of dog breeds, there is probably clear genetic evidence that all bulldogs and all collies are more closely related to all others of their own breed than others outside the breed. This is definitely NOT the case with ’all white people’ or ’all black people’."

I doesn’t matter how obvious the differences are. That may depend on the eyes of the beholder but race exist even if the beholder is blind or just PC.
Just because Everton and Chelsea have the same same colour of the shirt, we are still two different football teams. Aren’t we? But speaking of this... After all, football-teams are just man-made. They are from the beginning made up in the minds of men. So your logic may be, there are no football-teams, just different players?

I have no interest whatsoever, talking about certain players races, as I have nothing to prove AND there is no reason to point anyone out. BUT, you can easily see witch ones that are part of the white race and those from the black race. Then there are some players with parents or grandparents that obviously have mixed it up at some point, witch make things more complicated.

You named Diouff as one of the examples. He is one of the biggest ass holes that has ever graced an English football pitch. I wouldn’t call him human. He is just an alien.

Mike Allison said: "I also meant to ask, who am I prejudiced against?

You were the first on this thread to even use the word "prejudice" and also say things such as: "I judge you AFTER reading your comments, this is not ’prejudice’. To judge somebody based on the skin colour or ethnicity BEFORE knowing anything else about them is prejudice."

Nobody has "pre-judged" anyone based on skin colour or ethnicity here. I am not sure if that is what you really meant. But if it was, it could just as well be considered as prejudicing in the same way as you define that term. So that was more like a "mind game", to show how easy it is to use terms like "prejudice". Prejudice exist but when using the word to often, it really loses its meaning and become "empty". And most of the times it really is.

You still misunderstand my point about the status of race. Your Chelsea-Everton blue shirt example is a prime example of this. Football teams, or clubs more accurately, are clearly defined, even registered.

"BUT, you can easily see witch ones that are part of the white race and those from the black race"

This is precisely where I absolutely disagree with you, and where the whole concept of race is shown up to be a convenient shorthand rather than a genuine intrinsic distinction. You name two races, white and black, why? Are all white people in the same race regardless of anything else? Why? Are Serbs, Scandinavians and Portuguese all the same race? Its arbitrary, we make up the classifications. A 6’5" blond haired, blue eyed, pale Scandinavian and a 5’2" dark aired, brown eyed, ’olive skinned’ mediterranean seem to count, rather arbitrarily, as the same race in your eyes. Why? Why not, sure, but the classification is made up. Are ginger people a separate race? Are black Nigerians the same ’race’ as black Ethiopians? Why is the similarity in skin colour the overriding factor? Are Koreans the same race as Chinese people? If a South American, with indigenous blood, is the same ’colour’ as a Vietnamese are they the same race? Where does any of this leave Bob Monkhouse? Any of the these distinctions are subjective and arbitrary, they don’t exist in and of themselves, we make them up.

How many races are there? 4? 7? 58? Is a Hausa from the North of Nigeria the same ’race’ as an Igbo in the South? Does your answer depend on what colour their skin is? This is the point I’m getting at, frankly, no you can’t always tell what ’race’ someone is, and there is no intrinsic, objective definition of what makes a group of people a ’race’, we make it up, and we don’t always agree.

To divide people in "The black race" and "The White race" are two very simplified things. Of course, you can always "re-categorize" them under different "sub-races", such as Aryan (Nordic, Scandinavian, Germanic), Slavic and so on...

...But when you asked me to tell what races the players belonged to, there is one thing that you can’t overlook. Apart from the obvious "white or black", it can be very difficult indeed to categorize. But when having all the facts, such as genealogy or a well documented "family-tree", it can always be done. But as I don’t have that information about certain players, there is (as I said) difficult to say, apart from the obvious. For example, I can say that David Moyes belongs to the white race. But if he is completely British or maybe a little Scandinavian some generations back, it is not conclusive, but definitely interesting. I don’t find it a big deal as they are so closely related.

It is as easy to see that a player like Lucas Neill has European roots, as to see that Louis Saha has African roots even if the first comes from Australia and the other from France. Race mixing does make this more difficult, which I personally think is bad. But that doesn’t make the humans different to the animals. Even a dog expert doesn’t always know what breed the dog in front of him comes from. That’s why they try to keep pure dog breeds as they don’t want them to lose it’s typical properties that makes it a Collie or a Bulldog for example.

You said earlier that you have more empathy for such people that may have lost most of it’s origin roots due to wars and similar. But the fact is, that most of these people you try to protect are too young to not only have been trough that or maybe they don’t even know anyone that has that either. That makes that talk of war and bombing irrelevant.
Every people on the earth have at some point lost many men or women in wars, that for sure have had something to do with either race or religion. So I suggest no one should have some kind of monopoly on genocide or the protection thereof.

After all, we do not want the chain to our ancestors split at some point, as everyone wants to identify with their own. (As you said yourself). The point is, whether you have lost an considerable amount of racial-ancestors due to wars or race-mixing, nothing good comes from that. But I find race very important in this as every people celebrate the memory of their own first and foremost. That makes race-mixing such a bad thing as that not only breaks the chain of your ancestors and people. It will also make the next generation more rootless and the ability to feel affection for the past decreases very naturally.

I think race mixing is the answer to all the problems. Take away racial identity and you can’t have racism.

Add to this the current scientific theory that heterozygosity (mixed genes) makes you more likely to be fit, healthy and resistant to disease, basically by reducing the chances of having two copies of the same defective gene, and it lends weight to the idea. Its the opposite of inbreeding but on a much larger scale. Mixed race people are disproportionately represented in football particularly, they’re something like 1-2% of the population and much higher percentage of both professional footballers and the England team/squad. David James, Rio Ferdinand, Ashley Cole, Joleon Lescott, Glen Johnson, Jermaine Jenas, Jermaine Defoe, Aaron Lennon, I may have missed some out.

As English people, we are also quite race-mixed, whether they’re subsections of the same race or not, as our ancestors came from all over Europe in Roman, Anglo-Saxon and Norman invasions, adding to the established Celtic gene pool that was here.

You also say "everyone wants to identify with their own", but there are loads of people who feel they have two different cultures or backgrounds, identify with both and don’t see this as a problem at all. It simply depends on what you define as ’your own’. In a room full of football fans, where the topic of conversation was football, surely you’d identify with the Everton fans, regardless of whether you shared recent ancestors with them or not?

Some of us just extend this outside football, I might consider ’my own’ to be my family, people from my town, people from my country, or even people who like my football club or my favourite TV programme. I don’t see why ancestry is so important in that it would overrule more immediate things that define me and who I am.

By the way, ’Aryans’ aren’t white

"such as Aryan (Nordic, Scandinavian, Germanic)"

they were from what is now India, Pakistan, Afghanistan and Iran. Use of the word to mean whites, or Nordics, is basically down to the Nazis appropriating the word as an ’opposite’ to ’semitic’ or Jewish. An actual Aryan would look more like Imran Khan than anything the white supremacists in America who so love the word would identify with.

Racial classification, we make it up, and we don’t agree.

Mike Allison said: "I think race mixing is the answer to all the problems. Take away racial identity and you can’t have racism."

Firstly, there wouldn’t be any such problems if it weren’t for race-mixing in the first place. Besides, do you think chop of the head is the answer to headache?
Secondly, when mixing races, there will, in the end be even more races than we had at the beginning, considering a black father and a white mother could have two full siblings where one of the kids have a more dominant black side and vice versa. Therefore, even more conflicts in the world than before.
The only difference being that the white race, especially the Nordic, will be the first to disappear from the earth.

That being said, there is still one big detail you have completley missed. What are the reasons for war and racism? Yes race-mixing. Not only as a sexual aspect, but also from a demographical point of view.

Two (or more) different races or religions in the same region will at some point clash in war. We have seen that since beginning of time, without exception. There is the troubles in Northern Ireland based on religion.
There is the war in Israel/Palestine based on race.
We are also seeing signs of this in some parts of USA, where race riots and multi-ethnic criminal gangs are getting more common each year.

Everywhere is the same and you can really see where it is going. White people have two choices. Either it be giving up and follow the mass-mixing down the drain to a melting pot of races. Or moving away from the once all-white area.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2000/sep/03/race.world1

In the end, the final result will always be a race mixing-genocide. Nobody will benefit from that.

Mike Allison said: "Add to this the current scientific theory that heterozygosity (mixed genes) makes you more likely to be fit, healthy and resistant to disease, basically by reducing the chances of having two copies of the same defective gene"

Because of race mixing we have now, for example, got the addition of HIV to Europe. Some scientists have also said that specific races or people have developed immune system against various diseases, witch will be lost due to mixed genes. There is also a fact that mixed race children and adopted ones, are more likely to develop psychological problems and therefore more likely to commit suicide (according to statistics).

Mike Allison said: "Mixed race people are disproportionately represented in football particularly, they’re something like 1-2% of the population and much higher percentage of both professional footballers and the England team/squad. David James, Rio Ferdinand, Ashley Cole, Joleon Lescott, Glen Johnson, Jermaine Jenas, Jermaine Defoe, Aaron Lennon, I may have missed some out."

Maybe so. But on the other hand you could say that approximately 98-99% of all rapes are performed by non-whites.

After having a look on the Fifa world ranking, I can see England being at seventh place despite all those names you said. England have probably more racial mixing in the team set-up than all the six teams above them in the ranking and we find even more race mixing in the some of the teams below. How come? Compare this to the England team that finished third in Italy 1990. At that time, there were only Parker, Walker and Barnes...

Mike Allison said: "As English people, we are also quite race-mixed, whether they’re subsections of the same race or not, as our ancestors came from all over Europe in Roman, Anglo-Saxon and Norman invasions, adding to the established Celtic gene pool that was here."

You can’t really compare, in this context - relatively few, European people coming here several hundreds of years ago to this mass-invasion of mostly black people with roots in Africa and and a relatively high proportion of Asians to name a few. This has happened in a relatively short amount of time.

Mike Allison said: "There are loads of people who feel they have two different cultures or backgrounds, identify with both and don’t see this as a problem at all. It simply depends on what you define as ’your own’.

Yes, but there are probably even more of them that see that as a problem. The psychological problems are increasing in society and there is probably no coincidence.

Mike Allison said: "In a room full of football fans, where the topic of conversation was football, surely you’d identify with the Everton fans, regardless of whether you shared recent ancestors with them or not?

That is a hypothetical question. It depends of course, also a lot of who the others in the room was and how I got there in the first place. Although I am a fanatical Everton supporter, but besides football, I still have more in common with the average white Tranmere supporter than with an African Everton fan.

Mike Allison said: "Some of us just extend this outside football, I might consider ’my own’ to be my family, people from my town, people from my country, or even people who like my football club or my favourite TV programme. I don’t see why ancestry is so important in that it would overrule more immediate things that define me and who I am."

Take the South African national team as an example. Apart from one player, they are all black. That becomes even more clear when you look at the audience. But if you look at their Rugby team, the two roles are completely reversed. Even though many white men and women in South Africa like football, they surely can’t identify with their national team. I am sure many French people feel the same too.

When people that are completely different to you, speak another language, doesn’t look anything like you, BUT live in the same neighbourhood, you would still see them as more of your own, than for example a white Irishman living in London?

If your son or daughter won a medal in the Olympics, you would for sure be very proud as you have "created them". That’s the whole idea of World Cups and internationals. Two or more countries competing for who’s the best. English people will be proud if England wins, as they are their own. "This is what our country has produced". When England won the world cup in 66, that was also a signal to the rest of the world telling everybody: "This is England. We are the best football team in the world. This is what we can do".

Nowadays, it is impossible to feel the same pride as everything is mixed up. If Arsenal won the champions league, it would not be a good review of ENGLISH football as Arsenal are more like the French national team with a French manager. Manchester City is an Arabic football team with an Italian manager and multi-ethnic players and so on. The players nowadays doesn’t feel affection to the team they play for as they can’t identify with neither the supporters or the city in itself. They are just transported around the world from one club to another just like a tool. Due to this, football is beginning to lose its charm.

In the same sentence, why would Swedish fans be proud of Zlatan Ibrahimovic? He is not even Swedish. Pride has completely lost most of its meaning nowadays. You can see many more of these examples in every sport there is. One player born in one country, grown up in another country, living in a third country, married to a girl from a fourth country and competing for the national team of a fifth country. How can the fans be proud? Du to the race mixing society, competition in every way has completely lost the meaning in every possible way.

Mike Allison said: "By the way, ’Aryans’ aren’t white
"such as Aryan (Nordic, Scandinavian, Germanic)"
they were from what is now India, Pakistan, Afghanistan and Iran.

Aryans are subdivided into European-Aryans and Indo-Aryans. The European Aryans ARE WHITE. Race biology is also about the physical shape and aspects. Therefore it can be divided into different "branches". But the European, Nordic, Scandinavian, Germanic Aryans are for sure white.

Wow.

Only one point I’ll bother to make, as the rest of what you said speaks for itself.

Brazil are probably the most racially mixed football team, and even country, in the world. They do okay.

Yes, that would make a great book:

"The benefits of a racially mixed Brazil"- They can play football -

The end