The Mail Bag
Were Wolves Wrong?
Comments (33)
Wolves have been handed a £25,000 fine for fielding a weakened side against Man Utd. Their manager claimed that he needed to save his best players for the following game (which they then won).
My question is: Were they wrong to do this?
Imagine if Moyes had done the same for the recent derby game. Everton haven't won at Anfield for over 12 years. What if Moyes had decided that chances were Everton probably wouldn't win, no matter what side he fielded? Let's say he rested the better players and used some fringe players. What would have happened?
It's likely that the result would have been the same. The strongest team lost and you would expect a weakened team to lose as well. So the result would have been the same. But...
Marouane Fellaini would have been rested and wouldn't have picked up that injury. So we would have had him for the rest of the season. And Pienaar wouldn't have been sent off and he'd be available for all the difficult games this month.
I know its hindsight but if Moyes had fielded a weak side against Liverpool, we would probably have gotten the same result and still have Fellaini and Pienaar available.
Were Wolves right to field a weakened team? What would have been the fans' reaction if Moyes had done the same against Liverpool?
Dick Anderson, Posted 18/02/2010 at 09:22:02
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Ben Howard
2 Posted 18/02/2010 at 14:53:44
2 Posted 18/02/2010 at 14:53:44
On the subject of fielding weakened teams, I have a question...
I read that Portsmouth were planning to spend the £60m parachute payments on their debt to HM Customs, leaving a debt of £10m for a prospective buyer to have to clear.
This means that they are building their business model on the assumption that they are going down (as looks likely) and it will actually be beneficial if they do.
In fact, on this basis, to stay in the Premier League could be financially disastrous and could lead to the end of Portsmouth FC.
My question is how does this affect the games they will play between now and the end of the season? I wouldn’t want to rely on Pompey getting a result against one of our rivals for example as there is no motivation for them to play by the rules of competitive fairness that underpin the game. If a team goes down at the expense of another playing a weakened Portsmouth team or even just an unmotivated one there will be hell to pay. A proper Pandora’s Box situation.
Last game of the season: 9th May, Everton vs Portsmouth (my birthday!)
I read that Portsmouth were planning to spend the £60m parachute payments on their debt to HM Customs, leaving a debt of £10m for a prospective buyer to have to clear.
This means that they are building their business model on the assumption that they are going down (as looks likely) and it will actually be beneficial if they do.
In fact, on this basis, to stay in the Premier League could be financially disastrous and could lead to the end of Portsmouth FC.
My question is how does this affect the games they will play between now and the end of the season? I wouldn’t want to rely on Pompey getting a result against one of our rivals for example as there is no motivation for them to play by the rules of competitive fairness that underpin the game. If a team goes down at the expense of another playing a weakened Portsmouth team or even just an unmotivated one there will be hell to pay. A proper Pandora’s Box situation.
Last game of the season: 9th May, Everton vs Portsmouth (my birthday!)
Ciarán McGlone
3 Posted 18/02/2010 at 14:58:00
3 Posted 18/02/2010 at 14:58:00
The manager should be able to pick whatever team he wants..it’s a matter of tactics. End of story. A ludicrous decision will he’ll hopefully appeal, and win.
Brian Reidy
4 Posted 18/02/2010 at 15:02:01
4 Posted 18/02/2010 at 15:02:01
I dont think Wolves were wrong at all. If you think about it, Man Utd and Arsenal are always playing weakened sides in League Cup and FA Cup. Admitadly they win a lot of them but still they don't get sanctioned for that. As said above, the manager should pick the team he wants regardless of anyone else.
Erik Dols
5 Posted 18/02/2010 at 14:50:59
5 Posted 18/02/2010 at 14:50:59
You ask two quetions who in my opinion are quite different. Were Wolves right to field a weakened team against Man U? Yes. They had 3 games in a week or something like that, and the chance that Wolves, relegation canidates with a small squad, would win at Old Trafford were really small.
We are better than the wolves. We have a bigger squad than they do. And Liverpool has a mediocre season, our chances of winning there were more realistic than Wolves grabbing the win.
Moreover, to go out in a derby with a weakened team is really ridiculous. Maybe, just maybe, if we played that lot in the FA cup final, then in the Premier Leagues last game of the season while we were already champions, and then in the Champions League final, I could imagine fielding a weakened site in the PL-game. But in mid-season while we have a chance at winning against them? No way.
In short: Wolves were right, and we were right doing not so, even if it gained us no points and resulted in the loss of Fella and Peanuts.
We are better than the wolves. We have a bigger squad than they do. And Liverpool has a mediocre season, our chances of winning there were more realistic than Wolves grabbing the win.
Moreover, to go out in a derby with a weakened team is really ridiculous. Maybe, just maybe, if we played that lot in the FA cup final, then in the Premier Leagues last game of the season while we were already champions, and then in the Champions League final, I could imagine fielding a weakened site in the PL-game. But in mid-season while we have a chance at winning against them? No way.
In short: Wolves were right, and we were right doing not so, even if it gained us no points and resulted in the loss of Fella and Peanuts.
Nick Entwistle
6 Posted 18/02/2010 at 15:09:28
6 Posted 18/02/2010 at 15:09:28
Wolves are a shit small team with players of limited ability. From what I remember they were n a mini run and I don’t think Mick McCarthy wanted that disrupted so fielded an entirely different XI.
For Everton to field a weakened team, jeez, I don’t think giving reasons why they wouldn’t is worth while to anyone with a brain.
For Everton to field a weakened team, jeez, I don’t think giving reasons why they wouldn’t is worth while to anyone with a brain.
Finlay Robin
7 Posted 18/02/2010 at 15:12:30
7 Posted 18/02/2010 at 15:12:30
A disgraceful decision. Teams often field weaker teams in the cups but are not fined and rarely condemed. What about teams that field weaker teams in the league due to a big, upcoming cup final?
On the subject of the derby though, it’s a ridiculous question. The fans would be in uproar.
On the subject of the derby though, it’s a ridiculous question. The fans would be in uproar.
Shaun Brennan
8 Posted 18/02/2010 at 15:18:30
8 Posted 18/02/2010 at 15:18:30
In a nutshell, No.
Peter Fearon
9 Posted 18/02/2010 at 15:19:20
9 Posted 18/02/2010 at 15:19:20
This is an especially egregious example of the authorities applying the rules differently for the favored few. Arsenal, Manchester United, Liverpool and Chelsea have all fielded weakened teams in the past and no action has been taken. Manchester United was even allowed to field two different teams simultaneously in two competitions. But when a lesser team does it - well, that’s deemed to be a major problem. All clubs should field teams only from a first team squad of no more than 25 identified at the beginning of each season and at the close of each transfer window.
Dave Whitwell
10 Posted 18/02/2010 at 15:57:02
10 Posted 18/02/2010 at 15:57:02
I can’t quite believe this post Dick. I hope your not suggesting that we have the same ambitions as Wolves.
Personally I beleive we have a team and squad that is capable on any given day to beat any side. We should always set ourselves up to win unless the result is insignificant like the game against BATE.
Personally I beleive we have a team and squad that is capable on any given day to beat any side. We should always set ourselves up to win unless the result is insignificant like the game against BATE.
Tom Harries
11 Posted 18/02/2010 at 16:07:15
11 Posted 18/02/2010 at 16:07:15
I think it’s a valid question. The answer is No Way In Hell, but it’s still worth asking, because we have lost 2 key players (one of them for what? six months?).
The thing about it, though, is that anything can happen. Fellaini could have been rested and then injured in the game he came back in. We could rest players and then get hammered when they come back by a team that happens to have a really good game that day.
Like a lot of ideas, resting players is based on an assumption that things will work out in a particular way, rather than be subject to chance.
Its interesting that we are one of the few clubs that doesn't seem to do this (I seem to remember we did it in Europe, but I’m not 100% sure).
The thing about it, though, is that anything can happen. Fellaini could have been rested and then injured in the game he came back in. We could rest players and then get hammered when they come back by a team that happens to have a really good game that day.
Like a lot of ideas, resting players is based on an assumption that things will work out in a particular way, rather than be subject to chance.
Its interesting that we are one of the few clubs that doesn't seem to do this (I seem to remember we did it in Europe, but I’m not 100% sure).
Anthony O'Sullivan
12 Posted 18/02/2010 at 16:29:36
12 Posted 18/02/2010 at 16:29:36
surely now when Arsenal/utd/chelsea/liverpool play their kids teams in the carling cup they will get fined.......
Tony Cheek
13 Posted 18/02/2010 at 16:35:17
13 Posted 18/02/2010 at 16:35:17
Now , we won the FA cup semi final last year playing a greatly weakened team.....anyone complain ??
Neil Green
14 Posted 18/02/2010 at 16:57:31
14 Posted 18/02/2010 at 16:57:31
I believe Howard Kendall did field a weakened team against Liverpool in the Goodison game during the 84-85 season. We had already played both cup finals and won the league so it wasn’t a case of resting players for more important games. However we still won 1-0, Paul Wilkinson the scorer, I think.
Ben Howard
15 Posted 18/02/2010 at 17:07:24
15 Posted 18/02/2010 at 17:07:24
The problem here doesn’t seem to be actually fielding a weakened team — there are loads of examples of teams doing it. The problem is admitting that you are doing it!!
Mike Allison
16 Posted 18/02/2010 at 17:05:02
16 Posted 18/02/2010 at 17:05:02
The Premier League has a rule which states that you have to play your strongest team. The concept of what your ’strongest team’ is is a grey area. This is where McCarthy should have emphasised that he was ’rotating his squad’ that the reserves ’looked good in training’ or were ’raring to go and take their chance’, and that the first XI all had ’slight knocks’. In short, if he’d lied his arse off, I don’t see that there could have been any charge against him, it would have been up to the ’prosecution’ to prove he was deliberately weakening his team, which they wouldn’t have been able to do without McCarthy having a pretty strong defence by simply pointing at all the other times it gets done, albeit slightly less obviously and spectacularly.
Mike Allison
17 Posted 18/02/2010 at 17:11:35
17 Posted 18/02/2010 at 17:11:35
And Ben, I may be corrected, but I’m pretty sure your assessment of Portsmouth’s situation is totally wrong. Parachute payments aren’t more than you would get for staying in the Premier League, they’re either the same or slightly less, so they wouldn’t benefit financially at all from going down.
Ciarán McGlone
18 Posted 18/02/2010 at 17:16:05
18 Posted 18/02/2010 at 17:16:05
We field a weakened team every week when Neville runs out.
Sorry, couldn’t help it.
Sorry, couldn’t help it.
Mike Green
19 Posted 18/02/2010 at 17:53:08
19 Posted 18/02/2010 at 17:53:08
McCarthy’s in his rights to field whatever team he wants. End of.
Michael Oskoui
20 Posted 18/02/2010 at 18:33:58
20 Posted 18/02/2010 at 18:33:58
I think the fact that wolves has been charged is completley unfair. How many times have we seen the so called big 4 do it to rest playes for champions league games.
To charge wolves for something these clubs have done many times shows the premiler league is not not only ignorant, but alsoshows how bias they are. When it comes to the so called big 4.
To charge wolves for something these clubs have done many times shows the premiler league is not not only ignorant, but alsoshows how bias they are. When it comes to the so called big 4.
Pat Finegan
21 Posted 18/02/2010 at 18:24:06
21 Posted 18/02/2010 at 18:24:06
McCarthy should not have been fined. The coach has the right to use whatever tactics he wants. I don’t agree with the tactics. I think it sends the message to the players that they aren’t good enough and playing Man U is a lost cause. But it doesn’t matter what I think or what anyone outside Wolves organization thinks. Who is the FA to run a team? The board pays for the players, the stadium and everything else that the team pays for (the supporters really make the money but the board has actual control over the team’s finances). Therefore, the board can fine or, if necessary, fire McCarthy, not the FA.
Moyes throwing the RS game would be a completely different story. 1) The Derby is arguably the most important game of the year. The fans would have hung Moyes and his entire family if he threw the game. 2) We had a chance to win whereas, let’s face it, Wolves weren’t going to beat Man U at Old Trafford.
Moyes throwing the RS game would be a completely different story. 1) The Derby is arguably the most important game of the year. The fans would have hung Moyes and his entire family if he threw the game. 2) We had a chance to win whereas, let’s face it, Wolves weren’t going to beat Man U at Old Trafford.
Gary Tudor
22 Posted 18/02/2010 at 18:35:53
22 Posted 18/02/2010 at 18:35:53
The big 4!, To coin a media phrase. Regularly do this, particularly in the cup competitions, it is a case of one rule for one!
Will Fifa, Uefa the FA do similar to all teams in all competitions?
Mick Mcarthy was just honest, i’m sure it will just be strains and muscle pulls in the future!
Will Fifa, Uefa the FA do similar to all teams in all competitions?
Mick Mcarthy was just honest, i’m sure it will just be strains and muscle pulls in the future!
Micheal Lynch
23 Posted 18/02/2010 at 18:41:37
23 Posted 18/02/2010 at 18:41:37
If we had fielded a weakened team at Anfield we prob. would have won. We should be fined for the way that bunch played that day
Andy Crooks
24 Posted 18/02/2010 at 18:41:01
24 Posted 18/02/2010 at 18:41:01
To field a weakened team is an insult to the supporters and is an admission,that as a manager,you are not good enough.I have many reservations about David Moyes but his integrity is not one of them.
Glen Anderson
25 Posted 18/02/2010 at 19:02:36
25 Posted 18/02/2010 at 19:02:36
For once I agree with Ciarán and it’s not often I can write that. The manager should be able to select the correct team and tactics for any given match.
Malcolm Evans
26 Posted 18/02/2010 at 19:13:09
26 Posted 18/02/2010 at 19:13:09
I'm with Andy here. Why should the fans pay 40 odd quid for a ticket then travel expenses to Manchester on a Wednesday night, if memory serves correctly, to see the reserves play??
Shows a total lack of respect for the fans. A couple of changes is fine as far as I'm concerned but the whole team??
How would we feel if we had all bought tickets to the next away league game (forget the Carling Cup, everyone knows what's gonna happen there hence the low attandances) and Moyes put out a whole team of kids/reserves. Pretty pissed off I would imagine!
Shows a total lack of respect for the fans. A couple of changes is fine as far as I'm concerned but the whole team??
How would we feel if we had all bought tickets to the next away league game (forget the Carling Cup, everyone knows what's gonna happen there hence the low attandances) and Moyes put out a whole team of kids/reserves. Pretty pissed off I would imagine!
Dave Wilson
27 Posted 18/02/2010 at 19:57:43
27 Posted 18/02/2010 at 19:57:43
Wolves fielded a weekend team ?
Fuckers have been doing that since Derek Dougan and John Richards decided to call it a Doris
Fuckers have been doing that since Derek Dougan and John Richards decided to call it a Doris
John Keating
28 Posted 18/02/2010 at 20:57:57
28 Posted 18/02/2010 at 20:57:57
Disgraceful decision. I’m sure this would never happen if it were a sky 4 team. Didn’t United field a reserve team at Hull last year and nowt said.
The manager, rightly or wrongly, is paid to make decisions and that's it. I hope Wolves appeal, win and then sue the arse out of the PL faceless arseholes who make these daft decisions.
John Keating
29 Posted 18/02/2010 at 21:02:15
29 Posted 18/02/2010 at 21:02:15
Malcolm. You should note that McCarthy announced to the world the week before the Utd game that he would be fielding a second string team and told everyone why. This gave everyone ample time to shout and scream. His reasoning - whether we agree or not, worked. The supporters had every indication what to expect so couldn’t complain when they were in the ground that they were getting short changed.
I bet you’ll find there are many managers target games throughoutthe season and similarly write some off. The PL bosses are two faced bastards
I bet you’ll find there are many managers target games throughoutthe season and similarly write some off. The PL bosses are two faced bastards
Christopher McCullough
30 Posted 18/02/2010 at 21:25:53
30 Posted 18/02/2010 at 21:25:53
After the Liverpool game nobody really expected us to take anything from Chelsea. Should David Moyes have written the game off?
Although Wolves are shit no matter which players get picked.
Although Wolves are shit no matter which players get picked.
Jason Lam
31 Posted 19/02/2010 at 01:32:17
31 Posted 19/02/2010 at 01:32:17
McCarthy played his cards wrong. He should have insisted it’s a squad game, and that every player needs to play their part for the cause. Every player is equal. To suggest he fielded a ’second string’ line up against manure is a disgrace and embarassment to his players. They all play for the gold shirt. Or something like that. The only challenge would be to keep a straight face but social engineering is an art.
David Alexander
32 Posted 19/02/2010 at 13:47:19
32 Posted 19/02/2010 at 13:47:19
There is a problem with the original hypothesis, the game after Liverpool was Chelsea who are the better of the two sides — the logic would be play your best side against Liverpool then play the weakened team against Chelsea - who are the team more likely to beat us. If Moyes had done that, we would still have lost the derby and we would have lost to Chelsea. I think you always play to win and play your best side (minor squad rotation and tactical changes aside).
However, the Prem gives TV money (maybe £25m a year) which in the Championship you get almost nothing for (in comparison) so with 40 points to stay in the divison each point could be thought of as worth an extra £625k. So if you're fighting relegation and playing United away with a potentially winnable game next it makes financial sense paying a £25k fine if it helps get a point or two worth so much more money in the long run. Maybe it's just another way that money has damaged the game? Or maybe the fine should just be bigger?
However, the Prem gives TV money (maybe £25m a year) which in the Championship you get almost nothing for (in comparison) so with 40 points to stay in the divison each point could be thought of as worth an extra £625k. So if you're fighting relegation and playing United away with a potentially winnable game next it makes financial sense paying a £25k fine if it helps get a point or two worth so much more money in the long run. Maybe it's just another way that money has damaged the game? Or maybe the fine should just be bigger?
Jay Harris
33 Posted 19/02/2010 at 14:45:05
33 Posted 19/02/2010 at 14:45:05
Tony Kay was jailed for betting on a game they were expected to lose.
Why should Wolves get away with sending out a team to lose.
It is totally against sporting principles,cheating the fans out of a more competitive game and all in the pursuit of staying in the prem at all costs because of the MONEY.
My heart supports McCarthy especially as the media darlings get away with it but my head says Football is losing it’s soul to the money men.
Why should Wolves get away with sending out a team to lose.
It is totally against sporting principles,cheating the fans out of a more competitive game and all in the pursuit of staying in the prem at all costs because of the MONEY.
My heart supports McCarthy especially as the media darlings get away with it but my head says Football is losing it’s soul to the money men.
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1 Posted 18/02/2010 at 14:42:08