The Mail Bag
Liver Bird voting
Comments (42)
I'd just like to say that you haven't made enough different choices in the newest voting pool relating Everton's reclaiming Liver Bird symbol.
For example, it is not clear whether people who wote would like Everton to replace Rupert's Tower with the Liver Bird or is the Liver Bird just to be added alongside Rupert's Tower?
Furthermore, some don't agree that the Liver Bird is only a symbol of reds but wouldn't like it back on Everton crests as it looks nicer as it is right now!
I would have posted my vote for putting the Liver Bird on crests alongside Rupert's tower but there isn't that option!!
I believe this lack of voting options would give people wrong idea about the whole campaign, so if you could please make it right. Thanks!
Aleksandar Jovanovic, Posted 18/02/2010 at 18:17:35
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MIchael Kenrick
I guess we could always discuss this, in addition to having the vote...
I don't think it would make any difference other than to show an inferiority complex if it were to be incorporated into the badge.
Not being from Liverpool, perhaps I have a different view on such things, but enforced symbolism doesn't sit comfortably with me.
Leave the badge alone, it's a good one.
I totally agree with Aleksandar that the vote is misleading. I voted for the second option purely because of the wording. I think we all agree in reclaiming the bird but I would not want to have it appear on our famous shirt. It may have appeared on the shirt in the 30s but can you imagine the the stick we would recieve from reds for copying their shirt.
There is nothing wrong with our emblem, leave well alone but back reclaiming the liver bird. Maybe we could have large banners around Goodison of the bird painted blue and the slogan THE BIRD IS BLUE UNDERNEATH, not that I would want to rub those loveable reds noses in it...........much.
The amount of tattooed redshite to whom I have said, "why have you got a picture of a chicken on your arm?" would mean it would be hypocritical of me to back the blue bird.
We should leave it in our history. What next? Reclaiming Anfield?
We should cease this turkey envy immediately!
We should leave it in our history. What next? Reclaiming Anfield?
We should cease this turkey envy immediately!
It’s a good tease to Liverpool fans but putting it on the Shirt is a bit far and showes that our priorities are more about about having a go at them.
To me personally it’s not about whether it WAS ours, who had it first etc etc...it’s about how it would be perceived NOW, not only by the RS (but them in particular) but by "other" supporters.
The RS would simply see it as us trying to hang onto their coat tails and trying to increase our visibility and standing by being associated with them and "their" emblem, coz like it or not it’s their emblem and will always be associated with them.
If it’s to be included in our badge then the badge should show an Evertonian standing outside the tower................strangling the fucking bird!!!
The RS would simply see it as us trying to hang onto their coat tails and trying to increase our visibility and standing by being associated with them and "their" emblem, coz like it or not it’s their emblem and will always be associated with them.
If it’s to be included in our badge then the badge should show an Evertonian standing outside the tower................strangling the fucking bird!!!
Lock the shitehawk up in Prince Rupert's Tower.
Totally fucking pointless. where do people get these ideas from?
Tell you what: Let’s go and reclaim India and all the other countries we onced percieved to own in the British Empire...
Leave it alone and be happy with what we have got. What will it achieve? Nothing is the answer.
Embossed into the shirt fabric was an idea I could go along with (as long as it was backed by a suitable campaign to the general sporting masses explaining the symbolism, unrelated to the RS). However, to tamper with our crest would be absurd. Something subtle like incorporating it on stationery, website, etc perhaps but the crest??? Next subject please!
Erm, if blues in Liverpool know the bird symbolises the city and not the other club, great. But the bird doesn’t symbolise Liverpool the city to anyone outside the area, and especially outside the country, so what exactly is this supposed to acheive?
The bird is unclean, let them have it.
I’d put it on the collar or shoulder to represent city but keep our badge. An even better way would be having the bird with a red blob underneath. Thus symbolising an Everton Liverbird with redshite coming from it. Kind of sums the history up perfectly.
I can’t belive this is being discussed! I want nothing to do with the bird or any possible link to them.
We could always have an egg embossed on the shirt to show that we were here first!
How about on top of Rupert's Tower — building a nest?
With an egg in it!
Anything that screws with the heads of the Dark Side gets my vote. If they’re against it, it has to be the right thing to do. Given that an attempt to move out of Liverpool has just been narrowly averted, symbolically linking the club in perpetuity to the city is welcome. It doesn’t have to change our current badge or emblem. Just put a Liver bird on the upper arm of on shirt sleeve.
I’m a keen ornithologist and I can’t for the life of me figure out what species our feather friend is... anybody got any ideas?
It’s a cuckoo and it laid it’s poxy egg in our nest in 1892.
I don’t think the Liver bird should be incorporated into our crest, or even onto the shirts, but there’s no reason why the club can’t make available *some* merchandise featuring the image.
In fact they’ve already done it — replicas of some of the medals in The Everton Collection have been made available including 4 which have the Liver bird on.
Also, we’ve sold stuff branded with "St. Domingo’s FC" — should we not have done so, because it was only our name for a few months more than 120 years ago?
In fact they’ve already done it — replicas of some of the medals in The Everton Collection have been made available including 4 which have the Liver bird on.
Also, we’ve sold stuff branded with "St. Domingo’s FC" — should we not have done so, because it was only our name for a few months more than 120 years ago?
"It’s a cuckoo and it laid it’s poxy egg in our nest in 1892."
Ahhhhhh Dave.... Top marks!
Ahhhhhh Dave.... Top marks!
There would be absolutely nothing stopping Everton having a blue/white liverbird on the left side of the shirt with the Everton badge on the usual right.
LFC don’t own exclusive copyright for anything other than 4 or 5 design variations and their own badge surrounded by the gates.
LCC own the traditional Liverbird symbol.
But Everton could use it under the "fair use" element of trademark law, as LCC traditionally let local businesses do who represent the city, as the symbol is just that - of the city.
So we could have a Liverbird on the kit. No fuss and keep the Prince Rupert’s tower badge no worries.
The Liverbird would be a homage to the early Everton teams, and the fact we represent the city.
In a very different case, anyone using "Everton" or the club badge with Prince Rupert’s Tower or "nil satis nisi optimum" has to ask EFC for permission to use them, as EFC owns exclusive rights to those symbols as trademarks.
No one I thinks saying replace our badge or change it. Merely put the bird on the kit in an appropriate position in addition to our badge.
A nice white one would look good.
LFC don’t own exclusive copyright for anything other than 4 or 5 design variations and their own badge surrounded by the gates.
LCC own the traditional Liverbird symbol.
But Everton could use it under the "fair use" element of trademark law, as LCC traditionally let local businesses do who represent the city, as the symbol is just that - of the city.
So we could have a Liverbird on the kit. No fuss and keep the Prince Rupert’s tower badge no worries.
The Liverbird would be a homage to the early Everton teams, and the fact we represent the city.
In a very different case, anyone using "Everton" or the club badge with Prince Rupert’s Tower or "nil satis nisi optimum" has to ask EFC for permission to use them, as EFC owns exclusive rights to those symbols as trademarks.
No one I thinks saying replace our badge or change it. Merely put the bird on the kit in an appropriate position in addition to our badge.
A nice white one would look good.
How about putting a white Liverbird on the arm/shoulder area of the Everton kit. I think its worth it just to put the reds in their place. However, it would also focus non-Evertonian perceptions of the club towards a more truthful representation.
Whilst I am an Everton fan, I have to be honest and say I’ve never even been to Liverpool. I have however seen Everton play on a number of occassions. Now you know my background, so on to my opinion....
The Liverpool city is known for it’s Liver bird and for that very reason I can see a reasoning for wanting to "reclaim" the bird for the badge. However, and controversially, Everton is not Liverpool — it is a part of the Liverpool City. Everton moved away from the Liver bird and onto Rupert's Tower whilst the Liverpool team retained the Liver bird.
I say stop looking at the past and focus on the present/future. Everton have had past glories and they are to be remember and held in high regard. The future is where the team will gain more glory and trying to invoke past spirits through the badge doesn’t seem to make much sense to me.
Manchester United and Manchester City, Birmingham and Villa or any of the London clubs do not share similar badges, so why should it be so important to Everton to share a similar badge as Liverpool?
Keep what we have got and keep working with what we have — it is making a difference.
The Liverpool city is known for it’s Liver bird and for that very reason I can see a reasoning for wanting to "reclaim" the bird for the badge. However, and controversially, Everton is not Liverpool — it is a part of the Liverpool City. Everton moved away from the Liver bird and onto Rupert's Tower whilst the Liverpool team retained the Liver bird.
I say stop looking at the past and focus on the present/future. Everton have had past glories and they are to be remember and held in high regard. The future is where the team will gain more glory and trying to invoke past spirits through the badge doesn’t seem to make much sense to me.
Manchester United and Manchester City, Birmingham and Villa or any of the London clubs do not share similar badges, so why should it be so important to Everton to share a similar badge as Liverpool?
Keep what we have got and keep working with what we have — it is making a difference.
Everton FC is a representative of Liverpool though, not one of its districts. On a global scale, Everton can benefit from being more readily identified with a great city.
I love our beautiful crest as it is (i.e. the simple blue and white pre-copyrighted version with no yellow and without the word Everton unneccesarily plastered beneath it - though the 1878 looks ok I suppose) and I see no reason to change it whatsoever.
If we really wanted to use a symbol for marketing purposes etc, then I would like to see a reintroduction of the "Tower" range of clothing that we had a few years ago, where JUST the tower was the logo on the clothing (I’ve still got a fleece jacket from that range that I love - and my wife hates!)
If we really wanted to use a symbol for marketing purposes etc, then I would like to see a reintroduction of the "Tower" range of clothing that we had a few years ago, where JUST the tower was the logo on the clothing (I’ve still got a fleece jacket from that range that I love - and my wife hates!)
"On a global scale Everton can benefit from being more readily identified with a great city."
Do any London teams have Big Ben or Tower Bridge on their badge? Do either of the Manchester teams have a canal on their badge? Off-hand I can’t think of any teams with a badge that evokes images of the city they come from (other than possibly Nottingham Forest, but their name already does that) so I don’t see why that’s really so important.
Do any London teams have Big Ben or Tower Bridge on their badge? Do either of the Manchester teams have a canal on their badge? Off-hand I can’t think of any teams with a badge that evokes images of the city they come from (other than possibly Nottingham Forest, but their name already does that) so I don’t see why that’s really so important.
Many other teams don’t have their city’s hallmark on their jersey. So what? Doesn’t mean it won’t benefit Everton in this particular instance.
I don’t think it is THAT important either but any competitive advantage could help Everton.
Just don’t see the harm that’s all.
I don’t think it is THAT important either but any competitive advantage could help Everton.
Just don’t see the harm that’s all.
Surely there are other symbols more readily associated with Liverpool.
Sgt Pepper album cover, the cathedral, or a shell suit.
If LFC didn’t use the bird, would we be having this discussion?
Sgt Pepper album cover, the cathedral, or a shell suit.
If LFC didn’t use the bird, would we be having this discussion?
Liverpool FC is also about to petition the FA to finally be allowed to call themselves Everton Athletic...
I think we should have the Liver Bird on our shirt to show our roots as well as the Britannia symbol, the 25 EU stars, the Nato Crest and of course built into the fabric of the shirt all the flags of the United Nations....oh and a picture of the Queen too!!!
Are we really this bitter that we wanna ’reclaim’ the bird?? Get over yerselves!!
Are we really this bitter that we wanna ’reclaim’ the bird?? Get over yerselves!!
If they were to do it I think it would look better with two either side of the tower, maybe replicating the different position they stand in. That way it would at least be different to the Council’s and the shites bird.
Personaly I would prefer the liverpool skyline under the tower. Maybe the two cathederals and the liver building. Now thats more iconic than the birds its self.
After all the actual birds weren’t that famous outside the city until the tv series.
Personaly I would prefer the liverpool skyline under the tower. Maybe the two cathederals and the liver building. Now thats more iconic than the birds its self.
After all the actual birds weren’t that famous outside the city until the tv series.
I thought this was a poor hoax - but apparently it’s a consideration.
My response? Never. It would be ridiculous. Whilst we’re at it, we should include the cathedrals, the docks, the Merseyrail logo...
Just can’t see the logic in this even coming up for discussion.
My response? Never. It would be ridiculous. Whilst we’re at it, we should include the cathedrals, the docks, the Merseyrail logo...
Just can’t see the logic in this even coming up for discussion.
This should have been done 2 years ago to capatilise on the Capitol of Culture.
Merchandise - yes
Shirts/kit - no
Merchandise - yes
Shirts/kit - no
Anyone who has any anxieties about this needs to visit the Everton Collection or read ’Over the Park’ which both illustrate the significicant and unequovicial link that EFC has to the Liver Bird. Anyone who sings ’If you know your history ....’ would/should/needs to be aware this and if so would vote unashamadely for the liver bird emblem to be somewhere linked to EFC.
Similiarly, (and painful as it is to suggest this at this point in our relationship), the tower is a part of the Shites history whether they like it or not (we are their parents) ... so, we have the liver bird on our emblem and they have they tower on theirs, thus commemorating and celebrating the genealogical relationship.
Why does it become so easy for us to be caught up in us thinking we are bowing to them, when its the other way around! As the great David France says, if they want to see their birth certificate, go visit Central Library!
Similiarly, (and painful as it is to suggest this at this point in our relationship), the tower is a part of the Shites history whether they like it or not (we are their parents) ... so, we have the liver bird on our emblem and they have they tower on theirs, thus commemorating and celebrating the genealogical relationship.
Why does it become so easy for us to be caught up in us thinking we are bowing to them, when its the other way around! As the great David France says, if they want to see their birth certificate, go visit Central Library!
Pablo, spot on with the Tower range.
I’ve still got a shirt from when we had Puma as makers.
The tower’s there on the sleeve but you have to know its there and you get a knowing nod from other Blues when you’re out and about.
I’ve still got a shirt from when we had Puma as makers.
The tower’s there on the sleeve but you have to know its there and you get a knowing nod from other Blues when you’re out and about.
Ciarán - its a cormorant, the sea crow (corvus marinus), nowadays much more common in the Mersey than it was 30 years ago, along with the waders. You even get turnstones at New Brighton which was definitely a ’don’t go near the water’ place when I was a kid on account of the UFO’s - unidentified floating objects.
Should it be on our badge? No.
Should we use the badge it was on, alongside ours, now and then for special occasions - possibly for marketing opportunities? Why not.
Like Everton 2 Liverpool 1, a dig in the right direction is good for morale. Consciousness raising is good thing. If only our supporters around the world, and the very young in school playgrounds, know that little bit of our history it can be no bad thing.
But history leaves the shite with their badge and a song from a suitably shite musical, Carousel. It would be folly to be seen to be trying to catch up.
Should it be on our badge? No.
Should we use the badge it was on, alongside ours, now and then for special occasions - possibly for marketing opportunities? Why not.
Like Everton 2 Liverpool 1, a dig in the right direction is good for morale. Consciousness raising is good thing. If only our supporters around the world, and the very young in school playgrounds, know that little bit of our history it can be no bad thing.
But history leaves the shite with their badge and a song from a suitably shite musical, Carousel. It would be folly to be seen to be trying to catch up.
How about having the bird roasting on a spit next to the Tower, getting run over by a city bus, or clubbed to death by the Beatles.
ps - wasn’t Nerys Hughes a ’Liver Bird’.
I think that ’I Hate Nerys Hughes To Death’ was a track on the first Half Man Half Biscuit album (’The Four Lads Who Rocked The Wirral’ album came later perhaps, but I am often wrong in these matters).
As they are possibly the most famous Tranmere Rovers supporters in the world, this doesn’t really add much to our considerations.
Except to say that Liver Birds and other imagined ’in my Liverpool home’ nostalgia is no help to our club here and now.
I think that ’I Hate Nerys Hughes To Death’ was a track on the first Half Man Half Biscuit album (’The Four Lads Who Rocked The Wirral’ album came later perhaps, but I am often wrong in these matters).
As they are possibly the most famous Tranmere Rovers supporters in the world, this doesn’t really add much to our considerations.
Except to say that Liver Birds and other imagined ’in my Liverpool home’ nostalgia is no help to our club here and now.
Everton 2 Liverpool 1 looks and sounds childish when you look at Everton 1 Liverpool 4. All we do is give the RS more and more reason to laugh at us and call us ’bitter’.
Lets lose the inferiority complex and put it in the same bin as the conspiracy theories that dictate they and not us are looked after by the FA/UEFA/Sky/BBC etc etc
Lets lose the inferiority complex and put it in the same bin as the conspiracy theories that dictate they and not us are looked after by the FA/UEFA/Sky/BBC etc etc
I believe it was ’I Hate Nerys Hughes (From The Heart)’ and it was on the ’Back In The DHSS’ album.
John - I do believe you’re right.
Sean, there is a huge difference between-
a ’conspiracy theory’, which I guess imagines unnamed people acting for ’shadowy’ agencies to alter the course of history and -
for example, the simple evidence that FA referees consistently distributed or withheld penalties to the advantage of the ’top’ teams until EFC and Moyes called them to account on behalf of Andy Johnson. Things improved - for everybody - after that. They were rumbled.
Its not a conspiracy. Its just the way cliques work. Its not corruption, they just live in each others pockets.
Sean, there is a huge difference between-
a ’conspiracy theory’, which I guess imagines unnamed people acting for ’shadowy’ agencies to alter the course of history and -
for example, the simple evidence that FA referees consistently distributed or withheld penalties to the advantage of the ’top’ teams until EFC and Moyes called them to account on behalf of Andy Johnson. Things improved - for everybody - after that. They were rumbled.
Its not a conspiracy. Its just the way cliques work. Its not corruption, they just live in each others pockets.
Keith.... what a load of tosh!!!!
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