I agree. Cahill has been a fantastic servent to the club and has scored some important goals, but in my opinion, he has become stale over the past couple of seasons and at 30, we must start finding replacements for him.

I would love to see Donovan sign full time.

I second the Donovan comment.

On top of his obvious attributes, he fits the scheme of things as well he possibly could. What a sprite and agile midfield that was yesterday! Inventive, really. He wants to be here, and he is seeing instant reward for his/the teams endeavors- in the form of dissrupting the hell out of the opposition. They honestly make teams look stagnent, with the dinked balls over the top and endless overlaping runs. They look like they’re all having a blast...I know I am just watching this unfold.

Correct me if I’m wrong but didn’t Cahill play against Chelsea Fran? And aren’t Chelsea currently leading the League? Clutching at straws to make your point me thinks.

Cahill is still the perfect second striker in my eyes. It is no coincidence that our form picked up when he resumed playing there. He is also our one player who plays with a bit of spite and mischief. Every team needs a player like that.

Cahill is still vital to us... he scores big goals and that is a weakness of ours - bossing games without looking like getting a winner.

One point on Bily... I agree that he is potentially the one to break games open which is why I was disappointed that he wasn’t in the derby lineup. He reminds me a bit of a slow Ronaldo - a player who doesn’t necessarily fit the Moyes player mould (hardworking team players) but is entirely attacking. His diagonal runs confused the hell out of Evans and Brown and he was a big part of us putting them on the back foot, allowing the other 4 to take advantage of the space Utd gave us.

Is this the same Tim Cahill who was outstanding against the best team in the league — Chelsea?

Is this the same Tim Cahill who was outstanding against the richest club in the world — Manchester City? Is this the same Tim Cahill who was great against Lisbon and when he was replaced Lisbon started to pose much more of a threat as the ball was not sticking up front anymore for us?

Everyone performed excellent yesterday, there were 11 Man of the Match performances, but Tim Cahill if available should be in Everton’s team.

It's not obvious who plays. To be honest we have a really good selection at the moment.

Who do you leave out? It's a nice problem to have.

I agree with Joathan Fletcher, it's nice to have a selection headache. Also Blue Bill, if you do nothing else this summer, please find the money to sign Landon. There are probably better right wingers out there but he fits Everton's work ethic and team work and has pace, which for us is priceless!!!!

...who is also the Tim Cahill that the midfield performs better without and the same Tim Cahill that isn’t a good enough finisher to play as an out-and-out striker. He’s still worthy of a place in the squad & he’ll be a great guy to bring on from the bench, but it’s becoming increasingly questionable whether he deserves to make the starting line-up when everyone’s fit.

I see what Fran is on about.... yesterday we all had players good on the ball, and Cahill simply isnt as good. Pienaar finally plays in his best position too, and it pays dividends because he was linking everything at the match.

But Cahill is a very useful player, as he is the only one of our midfielders with a goal-scoring instinct, which is too invaluable for us at the moment.

It’s a tough one to call, personally I’d play the same midfield even if Cahill is fit, but that’s my opinion, and am sure others would disagree.

We beat United, Cahill is misssing so he is the reason for our crap record against the top 4? Why don’t you just enjoy the victory instead of trying to point fingers for no reason. Cahill is a fine player with many qualities who has and will continue to benefit the team for a long time. We played with no fear yesterday and made clever substitutions and thats why we won!

Aiden Doyle, I couldn't disagree more with you. It’s amazing how fickle fans are. Cahill has been one of the key factors for our recent upturn in form, yet because he does not play in one match that we win, he suddenly shouldn't be first choice.

You ask any other manager or central defender in the Premier League who Everton's most dangerous player is and I bet Tim Cahill is high up on everyone's list. I would love to know if everyone was saying he should not be first choice when he rose above defenders 3 or 4 inches taller than him and scored a great header at Wigan.

Saying that, I’m sure when he comes back and scores another match-winning goal for us, everyone will have him in their first choice teams again.

Andrew, I can’t speak for anybody else, but I’ve held my views on Cahill since the period last season when all of the strikers were unavailable. Cahill was moved up front as an emergency forward and, all of a sudden, the midfield became immeasurably more fluid, more creative and, above all, more effective.

Yesterday’s midfield performance simply adds a little more evidence to the idea that, whatever his individual qualities, we’re a more cohesive team without him.

David, as the post above indicates, my opinion may (or may not) be misguided, but it’s hardly fickle. For the record, I said much the same during the summer transfer window and went as far as to suggest that Moyes should sell him because his high profile would attract a higher fee than he was actually worth.

I haven’t seen much to make me change my mind.

So, if everone’s fit and on top of their game (and let’s say that Landon has signed full time), what’s the starting (five-man) midfield out of Rodwell, Osman, Cahill, Arteta, Fellaini, Donovan, Bily, Gosling, Pienaar?

I’ve always thought that we could play a better style of football without Cahill in the midfield/forward roles.

His fantastic ability in the air and his tremendous work ethic to chase down poor passes make the players around him lazy imho. It results in a lot more hoofball.

Those kind of balls were far rarer in yesterday's game and we played to the strength of our midfield, passing a lot on the deck and playing a very average Manc side at their own game. It remains to be seen if this will work against sides more prepared to kick our smaller players off the park, like the RS.

At one point, we must’ve strung about 30 passes together which ended in Donovan's miscontrol 2 yards out. If that had gone in, it would have been fantastic.

One final thing. Osman comes in for a lot of criticism on this site. I also think he really fails to deliver on too many occasions. But yesterday, he was absolutely magnificent. Some of the runs he did and his close control were more messi than ossie. He would have probably been my choice for MoTM. I think if he can maintain that form it will be great for the squad.

It really gives the players a confidence boost when one of your side bamboozles the opposition like he did on several occasions yesterday. It also makes the so called ’better’ teams a bit less superior in their attitude which will help us no end when playing them.

"For the record, I said much the same during the summer transfer window and went as far as to suggest that Moyes should sell him".

I give up. What's that saying? "You never know what you have got till it’s gone."

Horses for courses - Cahill is unique and teams hate him.

He may not be as skillful and as good with the ball as the others but by God his force of will is pretty indispensible.

Writing Cahill off now is a bit premature, he still can have a vital role to play at Everton as he proved when he stuck one up Chelsea.

Yeah right, David.

What we’ve got is a limited but high profile player in his thirties who’s going to find himself increasingly marginalised and who, presumably, isn’t going to enjoy life on the bench. We should have cashed in while we had a chance.

Ferguson and Wenger know when to move players on. Moyes is still learning.

"Who is also the Tim Cahill that the midfield performs better without"

Aiden, regarding your comment above. Which specific games are you referring to were the midfield has performed better without Tim Cahill? I am presuming by your comments that you attend Everton matches on a regular basis and will therefore be able to pinpoint specific games to back up your statement.

Sorry I ’ve only skimmed the responses so I’m mainly responding to the OP, but your point is a bit Kenrick-esque in its mention of self-vindication.

Don’t get me wrong, I basically agree with you and I’m not looking for a fight. I accept that Cahill may not be in our first choice XI, and he’s certainly a limited player, but I don’t see the point of criticising him for this. He’s a player who knows his own limitations and performs above them regularly. He plays injured and in pain and his character is beyond question. I don’t know what’s been wrong with him recently but he had some weird blue strapping on at least two parts of his body against Sporting, but he still gave his all and competed for everything in the air and along the ground.

The main point though, is that the logic you use means Fellaini should be dumped, and possibly Pienaar. This is simply based on the fact that Fellaini missed both Chelsea and United victories and Pienaar missed Chelsea. I would hope this puts paid to most of the arguments based on results when Player X plays and when he doesn’t, as the factors and variables that go into a result are so much more complicated than that.

I’m a Cahill fan, I agree that he’s improved, and we’ve improved, since he basically started playing up front, and I also agree that he’s likely to become more and more a squad player as time goes on. This is especially the case as Pienaar is becoming more and more capable of playing the central role he started in yesterday.

But in today’s football, you basically need two good players for every position, so talk of getting rid of him, in my opinion, is very much wide of the mark.

David, I’m thinking of the period either side of Christmas when, in addition to the three derby matches, we outclassed Sunderland & Hull, beat Man City & Middlesboro and were unlucky to only draw with Chelsea and Arsenal. We played reasonably well at Old Trafford too, despite losing. At the time that was the most sustained period of entertaining, fluid midfield play that I’d seen from Everton for ages – and Tim Cahill may have been on the pitch but he wasn’t deployed in midfield.

Mike, I agree about the need for depth and I’m happy to accept that Cahill has his place in the squad but my suspicion is that, at this stage of his career, someone as competitive as Tim won’t want to be anything other than a first choice player. I think that the money we could have got for Cahill last summer would have been more than enough to acquire at least one very good young talent to develop further. This year, I think that his value has fallen both on and off the pitch.

The post doesn’t say anything about selling Cahill. Only the first reply.

If Cahill doesn’t find himself in the first XI when all fit, I’ll have no complaints, but I’d never sell him... jeez.

Aiden I think Tim’s a guy who could realise that maybe he wasn’t first choice and still feel proud to play a part. He strikes me as someone with a good attitude and not someone who would cause trouble or be unhappy or unsettled. I think he’s been here long enough to feel the kind of affinity with the club that is quite rare nowadays.

I also think he will be a good bloke to have around for the younger players coming through. If they can learn from his passion, commitment, professionalism and willingness to do whatever is needed for the team then we can only benefit.

I also think that, if his ’value’ has fallen on and off the pitch, that’s mainly because of a raising of our standards, and not really a problem. He still has value, he’s worth having, and I hope he’ll be here for a while yet, even if others will rise to prominence around him.

I’d say a good parallel is with the likes of Giggs, Scholes and even Gary Neville at Man United. None of them are as important as they used to be, but they remain committed to the club and able to play an important role in supporting the younger players developing around them.

Maybe Mike. I’m not sure I agree, but I certainly see your point.

No you are 100% right Aiden, Tim Cahill was not in the midfield in those games he was up front running a marathon every game, holding the ball up, chasing down defenders, scoring goals and affording the midfield players in those games the opportunity to play off him. But you're right, we don’t need someone in the 1st team who is going to offer us those sort of qualities. I agree, let's sell him; what team needs a midfielder who when fit is going to score you 10+ goals a season and clear as many headers as the central defenders from opposing free kicks and corners etc?

So, basically David, you’re saying that during those games Tim Cahill played the Andy Johnson role. Wonder what happened to him?

Cannot for the life of me see where all this criticism is coming from. We pull out an absolute masterful display of football, and yet still seem to ’eat one of our own.’

Logic, hindsight, looking back, can all be wonderful things. Asuming we use the logic of many posters here Felliaini, Cahill, Yakubu all should be sold and forgotten about. Let’s be serious guys, without Cahill on MANY occasions this year we would have been utterly screwed.

Who puts in the hard yards when Saha decides he doesn’t feel like running for a ball or chasing down defenders? Often Tevez is praised for his ’bulldog’ like approach to the game, but I feel Cahill has been doing the same thing for longer/ and more effective.

Sure he doesn’t have the ’vision, style, flare’ of some ’creative’ midfielders but his the type of player opposition fans hate playing, because he can influence a game without having 100 touches of the ball and have defenders/keepers scrambling to keep up.

He will be a key cog next Premier League season to reach our ultimate goal of playing Champions League, and you can back that.

Mike Allison, very good points about TC and the team. Like Aiden, at the beginning of the season, knowing EFC’s financial position, my opinion was that we should cash in on TC’s reputation and buy a couple of replacements for the future. Not in any way meaning disrespect to what he has achieved for EFC, but purely from a financial point of view.

However, I agree with Mike Allison that at this point, TC will be far more valuable in terms of mentoring new talent, the ’Aussie winning spirit’, the team ethic, etc, and these are really things that money can’t buy.

Since then, I have increasingly come around to the view that Tim will play a lesser role as the quality of players around him improves, but he could still be the "super sub" that he frequently is for the Aussie national team.

Proud of Tim Cahill and proud of all the blues!

Oh dear, a good result against the Mancs and now Cahill needs to be dropped. Fran, you’ve a short memory. Leaving aside the rivalry in the North West our best result for a very very long time was against a very strong Chelsea outfit. Yesterday's result whilst a great achievement was in no way measurable to the win over Chelsea.

The Mancs without both Vidic and Ferdinand were always there for the taking. Not so Chelsea, an altogether more difficult proposition. Cahill as I recall was many peoples MotM in that game. My take on yesterday's game was that the partnership of Evans and Brown looked extremely fragile right from the off. In fact, as I watched, I bemoaned the fact that Cahill was absent as I truly believe he could have given that pair a torrid time. It seems you’ve put 2 and 2 together and come up with 11.

As we move to a bigger, better (and less injury-plagued) squad, I think we have to be more selective about the team we put out considering the opposition. Yesterday we played a side who have faith in their own ability to control the game. This in turn meant that our players had more time on the ball and could be more creative; with Cahill in the eleven would we have won the midfield as we did?

Yet there will be other games when we will have to fight to win the midfield, and the game. I was at Wigan when we playedthere last month, and they were a strong, physical, difficult team, and not only did Cahill score, but he set up the (wrongly) disallowed Fellaini goal. If we look at our upcoming fixtures, the Blackburn and Stoke games stand out as similar challenges; I want Cahill in the eleven to start both of those, and others like Bolton and Villa. But I would accept yesterday’s eleven against West Ham and Tottenham to name just a couple.

Cahill has to stay, but in the short- and mid- terms he isn’t an automatic starter. Keeping the opposition guessing about our lineups can only be to our advantage in most situations.

Aiden, sorry for the late reply.

If by the Andy Johnson role you mean running around like a headless chicken, spending most of your time out on the wings, and losing the ball regularly then know thats not what i mean.

If by the Andy Johnson role you mean winning virtually every header he competed for in an attacking and defensive situation, holding the ball up in order to bring others into play, and giving some of the best defenders in the world like Terry and Rio etc a torrid time, then yes that's what I mean.



I think Gerry Western's comment basically says everything I have been trying to say.

"Yesterday’s midfield performance simply adds a little more evidence to the idea that, whatever his individual qualities, we’re a more cohesive team without him."

Also just regarding your comment above I’m presuming that you don’t think Fellaini should be in our first choice midfield? As yesterday's performance must suggest our midfield is more cohesive without him as well. I agree with you, let's get him sold as quick as possible — he is well past his peak.

Dave, People are quick to forget what players have done for us and what they do bring to the game.

Tim can hold his head up high amongst anyone at or been at our club.

It has crossed my mind at the games that maybe we have moved on a bit as Tim gets into the thirties.

Agree, top attitude, a real niggle to play against and a top player in the 4-6-0 we played so well last year.

Sell him? no. Automatic first team choice, not so sure.

Play him away at Anfield? Everytime.

Fran,
Look at our last 10 goals scored in all competitions and you’ll see that most of our goals have either been scored or set up by Tim Cahill. His creativity and excellent ball control have been the reason we have improved our scoring in recent months.

Stop the stereotyping of a player who, if you have a proper look and take off the blinkers, is as creative as any player we have.

Ian Smithham, spot on. Neatly condenses the whole arguement.

As we very slowly make progress on and off the field, especially squad quality and quantity. Cahill and others who used to be stand outs get eclipsed.

We only play 5 in MF coz we don’t have 4 good enough quality wise and the only way Tim would get in a ’proper’ 4 man MF would be injuries.

But with us seemingly turning the corner Re. the 4 man MF. His and others for that matter, chances to start the gane will diminish.

When a fully fit and on form Arteta is on the bench we will know we have arrived.

1. Cahill is a fantastic player... and in case you missed his last few appearances, he’s actually pretty clever with his feet as well. He has unlocked several defences with some deft passing since the new year began.

2. Bily runs like a girl. Notwithstanding his game changing contribution on Saturday.... he couldn’t hold Cahill’s Jockstrap. He’s a great sub... nothing more... and he defends like a girl as well.

3. The team really started to break down Man U after Bily left the match. It was clinical.
Minute 75; Pienaar - Donovan - Pienaar - Gosling - GOAL
and as G Neville is closing down Donovan, Valencia comes to help out, missing the overlapping run of Pienaar and Donovan’s look-away pass... and G Neville looks at Valencia twice,,before Gosling scored, as if to say...What the fuck are you doing??? Valencia was pulled a few minutes later.

Minute 78 - Donovan - Pienaar - Donovan - Pienaar - Arteta ... WHIFF!!! In spite of the whiff, it was a fantastic play and Man U were simply out-played, out-paced and out-classed... they looked old and tired. The key here is to let Pienaar and Donovan run riot and wear down defenses.

It could be argued that the Everton assault late in the game was the result of allowing Donovan in the "Cahill" slot behind Saha, or it could be that Gosling’s presence on the right opened up the left for Donovan and Pienaar. Whatever the case, with their speed on the same side of the pitch... wow!