The Mail Bag
Pienaar Charged with drink driving
Comments (57)
Anybody know anything more about it?
Can he be locked up for this or will be just get a fine and be banned from driving?
David McKitt, Posted 23/02/2010 at 09:52:29
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Well, presuming there’s no previous, it’s just a ban and fine. About 20 seconds of match time earnings.
Anyone want to offer him a lift to Goodison?
Oh, and just to get a debate going. What a tit for getting behind the wheel.
Anyone want to offer him a lift to Goodison?
Oh, and just to get a debate going. What a tit for getting behind the wheel.
Will this affect his decision to extend his contract in June? Will his ban extend to other EC countries?
Don't care what the concequences for him are, James you shouldnt be asking what this affects!!
Any person that gets behind the wheel pissed is an idiot weather they are Sam Higgins or any everton player!!
Any person that gets behind the wheel pissed is an idiot weather they are Sam Higgins or any everton player!!
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He was pulled the morning after. It’s still not right, but i dont see it anywhere near as bad as going out drunk. He had been celebrating the win against Everton, then got pulled the following morning...
Well if he wasnt behind the wheel than thats different!!
Is that confirmed Josh? Because I read ’early hours of Sunday morning’ which usually means 1 or 2 am - but thats just me reading in between the lines..
Incidently, despite this charge being pretty straightforward more often than not, I’d still rather wait to see whether or not he is convicted before passing judgement on him.
Even if guilty he won’t be going to prison and will almost certainly escape community service, regardless of what he blew. A percentage of his salary will be far too appealing for the magistrates to overook (see Unsworth).
Incidently, despite this charge being pretty straightforward more often than not, I’d still rather wait to see whether or not he is convicted before passing judgement on him.
Even if guilty he won’t be going to prison and will almost certainly escape community service, regardless of what he blew. A percentage of his salary will be far too appealing for the magistrates to overook (see Unsworth).
To be honest, I’ve never really understood Christians.
He seems like a good guy to me, and with no damage done, let’s hope that this teaches him that a taxi fare, on occasion, isn’t an extravagance. I’ll bet it was where he grew up.
About as likely to affect his football career as a garage-full of ciggies, or alleged GBH in Southport. (Is that a rough town?)
He seems like a good guy to me, and with no damage done, let’s hope that this teaches him that a taxi fare, on occasion, isn’t an extravagance. I’ll bet it was where he grew up.
About as likely to affect his football career as a garage-full of ciggies, or alleged GBH in Southport. (Is that a rough town?)
Josh Holmes - if he was celebrating a win against Everton he deserves all he gets.
And if he was still over the next morning he must have been in one hell of a state the night before. I’d say Mark is right - it was probably the early hours and he took a red light. One year driving ban and £1000 fine.
And if he was still over the next morning he must have been in one hell of a state the night before. I’d say Mark is right - it was probably the early hours and he took a red light. One year driving ban and £1000 fine.
Hmmm,
Well just as in Baxter’s alleged misdemeanor earlier in the season, let’s just wait and see before getting all high and mighty over the implications of what he’d supposed to have done.
Well just as in Baxter’s alleged misdemeanor earlier in the season, let’s just wait and see before getting all high and mighty over the implications of what he’d supposed to have done.
I wonder what Moyes view of this would be.
The game has changed a lot these days and I would have thought that going out on the piss to celebrate a win, especially with a mid week Euro game coming up, was not the expected behaviour of modern professional player?
The game has changed a lot these days and I would have thought that going out on the piss to celebrate a win, especially with a mid week Euro game coming up, was not the expected behaviour of modern professional player?
Was the busy a Man U supporter?
It doesn’t take that much alcohol to put somebody over the limit. Two and a half pints for somebody of average body mass and normal tolerance.
He may not have been ’pissed’ as such....but why take the car? Surely he could afford a bloody taxi to Woolton?
Mind you he’s not exactly Ashley Cole is he? Just a bit of a fool on this occasion.
He may not have been ’pissed’ as such....but why take the car? Surely he could afford a bloody taxi to Woolton?
Mind you he’s not exactly Ashley Cole is he? Just a bit of a fool on this occasion.
He has brought the club into disrepute. If I did this i’d lose my job. I’d get rid in the next transfer window
What Terry & Cole have done whilst reprehensible has only hurt their families & themselves. Being drunk at the wheel has the potential to kill or maim innocent people. Totally unforgivable.
Its a little bit simplistic to say that he will only get a driving ban and a fine as it all depends on the level of his reading. Potentially, if the reading was high enough the offence carries a custodial sentence. He would have to be about four times over the legal limit so this would appear unlikely. In any event it is still a grave error of judgement on his behalf.
Sorry Geoff a bit OTT there. If your job demands you drive then yes you will lose your job, many other employees would not. Yes what he has done is extremely irresponsible but he will pay his debt and hopefully learn from his mistake With misdemeanours like this as long as nobodies hurt then everybody should be given a second chance. After that, if he does it again then and only the should we sell him on.
As it was in Liverpool city Centre I think its highly unlikely that the ’busy’ as described above was a Man Utd fan!!
It was in the early hours at the end of a night out out.
I agree with the post that says get rid of him. This couldve been the same as Lee Hughes a few years back who killed someone when behind the wheel and pissed. I know the vast majority will make light of it but drink/driving is a killer whether you play for EFC or clean the streets. If I did it and got arrested Id lose my job and career. Piennar will just employ a driver for 12months and carry on regardless. Try telling ’God is Great’ to the Magistrate and see how far that gets him!!!
It was in the early hours at the end of a night out out.
I agree with the post that says get rid of him. This couldve been the same as Lee Hughes a few years back who killed someone when behind the wheel and pissed. I know the vast majority will make light of it but drink/driving is a killer whether you play for EFC or clean the streets. If I did it and got arrested Id lose my job and career. Piennar will just employ a driver for 12months and carry on regardless. Try telling ’God is Great’ to the Magistrate and see how far that gets him!!!
If this is true, then he is a fucking moron.
So much for God.
So much for God.
If he is driving drunk he is a fool and will get no sympathy from me. I would lose my job as I work for the NHS and have to be CRB checked, drink driving is a criminal offence and as my degree trained me for the job I do then bye bye not only job, but career and maybe after that house.
The grey area for me is the next morning. In theory you can metabolise 1 unit per hour, although everyone is different. 10 pints may be 20-30 units depending on choice of your ale. You can easily see how the next day without realising you can be over the limit. Happened to a friend of mine, random spot check driving to work the next day and he had not drunk that much the night before.
The grey area for me is the next morning. In theory you can metabolise 1 unit per hour, although everyone is different. 10 pints may be 20-30 units depending on choice of your ale. You can easily see how the next day without realising you can be over the limit. Happened to a friend of mine, random spot check driving to work the next day and he had not drunk that much the night before.
Kevin, no I don’t drive for a living but my contract clearly says that if I am found guilty of an offence other than a parking offence then it is Gross Misconduct & my contract WILL be terminated immediately.
Maybe Pienaar’s contract doesn’t but he knew that what he was doing was illegal & when he got behing the wheel over the limit then he could not know whether his action would result in death or maiming an innocent person.
No excuse, get rid asap!
Maybe Pienaar’s contract doesn’t but he knew that what he was doing was illegal & when he got behing the wheel over the limit then he could not know whether his action would result in death or maiming an innocent person.
No excuse, get rid asap!
Again it very much depends on whether he’s convicted and what the facts of the case are.
Don’t get me wrong, my cousin was knocked off her bike by a drunk driver and was very fortunate just to come away with a scar on her head after a short stay in hospital... but FFS people, calling for him to be sold and questioning his religion is well overboard. Frankly it’s clear that he did not kill anybody and leave the scene ala Lee Hughes and whilst I may not be a Christian, I certainly don’t remember Thou shalt not be in control of a motor vehicle if thou has been out on the raz. So before casting stones or calling for action against this young man, just wait until after March 9th.
Don’t get me wrong, my cousin was knocked off her bike by a drunk driver and was very fortunate just to come away with a scar on her head after a short stay in hospital... but FFS people, calling for him to be sold and questioning his religion is well overboard. Frankly it’s clear that he did not kill anybody and leave the scene ala Lee Hughes and whilst I may not be a Christian, I certainly don’t remember Thou shalt not be in control of a motor vehicle if thou has been out on the raz. So before casting stones or calling for action against this young man, just wait until after March 9th.
Let’s be fair now, while there is never an excuse for drinking and driving, particularly if you’re well paid enough to be able to afford a cab, there is one salient point that needs to be taken into consideration.
For a man of average height, weight and build, roughly 2 pints will put them over the limit.
With little Stevie P, it could just as likely be the case that he had a can of Shandy Bass after dinner and it put him at twice the legal limit
For a man of average height, weight and build, roughly 2 pints will put them over the limit.
With little Stevie P, it could just as likely be the case that he had a can of Shandy Bass after dinner and it put him at twice the legal limit
Gordon, whether you can afford a cab or not is irrelevant! Ditto how much it takes to put you over the limit. If you are over the limit YOU ARE OVER THE LIMIT!
If found guilty he is not fit to wear the blue shirt
If found guilty he is not fit to wear the blue shirt
Just got the low down . Apparently Pinnear went to the Saturday Midnight Mass and the vicar screwed up and instead of using Tesco’s value Red wine (normally 8.5% strength) he used his best Italian Amarone (normally 14% strength) and he told Pinnear to take a few sips after his tremendous display against the Red Devils.
With Pinnear only weighing in at 6 stone the effect was equivalent to 6 units of alcohol. What didn’t help was he was giving 2 vicars and 3 nuns a lift back to their homes and they were giving a right earful of Hymn No 63 - "If You Know Your History" when the police stopped them. Unfortunately the police were Liverpool supporters and didn’t show any sympathy !
With Pinnear only weighing in at 6 stone the effect was equivalent to 6 units of alcohol. What didn’t help was he was giving 2 vicars and 3 nuns a lift back to their homes and they were giving a right earful of Hymn No 63 - "If You Know Your History" when the police stopped them. Unfortunately the police were Liverpool supporters and didn’t show any sympathy !
Biddleiddlebleeeebiddletritritrietriegimblediddle.
HASSSERRRRRR HASSSERRRR HASSSSERRRR
Nyernyernyermyeriddleiddleiddle.
Shhhhhhhhh-IH-IH-IH-IH-lalalalalalalalala.
(sorry if that sounds like nonsense, I’m speaking in tongues - the important thing is Pienaar gets the message)
HASSSERRRRRR HASSSERRRR HASSSSERRRR
Nyernyernyermyeriddleiddleiddle.
Shhhhhhhhh-IH-IH-IH-IH-lalalalalalalalala.
(sorry if that sounds like nonsense, I’m speaking in tongues - the important thing is Pienaar gets the message)
"I certainly don’t remember Thou shalt not be in control of a motor vehicle if thou has been out on the raz."
----
I think it’s more than covered by a reckless approach to ’thou shalt not kill’....
----
I think it’s more than covered by a reckless approach to ’thou shalt not kill’....
Radio City revealed according to them the story exclusively at 8am on their news.
They said it happened at 4:30 am as he was seen running a red light in Lime Street.
He was described in the Echo as a resident of Woolton (about 5 or so miles from the city centre for those non locals)
I live near Woolton its about a £12 taxi fare at night home from the city.
They said it happened at 4:30 am as he was seen running a red light in Lime Street.
He was described in the Echo as a resident of Woolton (about 5 or so miles from the city centre for those non locals)
I live near Woolton its about a £12 taxi fare at night home from the city.
Not that it should matter but his ban will include all the EU countries Germany Spain Italy etc so it will be a taxi ride everywhere.
Geoff I think we’ll have to agree to disagree. I just believe everybody in life will make a mistake of some magnitude. I also believe they deserve some sort of forgiveness. Yes he could have killed someboby but he didn’t. He made a wrong decision which he will regret and hopefully learn from. Marlon King didn’t learn his lesson’s and is now where he belongs, If Pienaar offends again then we should sell him.
Not so sure you are correct there Tony, he will be banned from driving in the UK. The courts will take his UK driving license off him if he has one ... and if that is his only license ghe can’t drive anywhere because h doesn’t have a license. However, he may well be driving around on at South African or Dutch license ... in which case the courts will have no power to take his license from him and as such could drive anywhere but the UK and possibly Ireland.
Get off your effing soapbox Geoff, I take it you have never done anything reckless in your entire life under the influence and outside of work hours then?
I am not condoning him for what he has done, it is idiotic but like most rational people I will await the details before ordering the stoning. Was he wasted, doubt it, or had he a glass or two of champagne with food and that has put him over? No one knows yet but I would bet a hefty sum that if he was massively over the limit it would have been in the story about him, papers love things like that.
Who did he kill Ciaran?, didn’t read that bit in the paper. (reckless doesn’t automatically mean life threatening)
I am not condoning him for what he has done, it is idiotic but like most rational people I will await the details before ordering the stoning. Was he wasted, doubt it, or had he a glass or two of champagne with food and that has put him over? No one knows yet but I would bet a hefty sum that if he was massively over the limit it would have been in the story about him, papers love things like that.
Who did he kill Ciaran?, didn’t read that bit in the paper. (reckless doesn’t automatically mean life threatening)
Have to agree with Tony Williams, Geoff are you some sort of Saint? and as for Ciaran, stop exaggerating. Some of you lot on this site are never happy unless there is something or someone to kick off about.
I think you’ll find that recklessness does represent a threat to life in the context of the law Tony. I knew several people who have been killed by drunken joyriders - so don’t accuse me of exageration Francis.
Anyone who knowingly gets into a car under the influence of drink and drives - is a complete and utter muppet.
Anyone who knowingly gets into a car under the influence of drink and drives - is a complete and utter muppet.
Do you know what I find funny? If it is anyone who is not connected with Everton who commits a crime etc, they should be banged up ( Gerrard ) or hung drawn and quarted etc, but when it is ’ one of our own ’ They made a mistake, they should be forgiven etc.
Drunken joyriders... again, do we know whether this was the case with Pienaar? No.
Everton have so far refused to comment, but you can be sure that had he actually been a great deal over or had so much as swerved near someone the red tops would be all over it.
Punishment has to be proportionate to the crime, and innocent until proven guilty... he has been charged not sentenced.
Everton have so far refused to comment, but you can be sure that had he actually been a great deal over or had so much as swerved near someone the red tops would be all over it.
Punishment has to be proportionate to the crime, and innocent until proven guilty... he has been charged not sentenced.
Chad, to have been charged with drink driving, he must have been breathalysed and been found to be over the limit, so how can he be innocent until proven guilty?
Sean it was a joke!! Anyway not every Scouser is an Evertonian or a Shite supporter. I know quite a few who support other Clubs including Man U and some who aren’t interested in football at all. The latter always amazes me as I always expect a Scouser to be interested in the beautiful game.
Drunk driving is a South African past time... sorry our fault for his poor upbringing...
Tony & Francis, I’m no saint that’s for sure. However, I have never & will never get behing the wheel of a car or the handlebars of my motorbike if I’ve had a single drink. One drink impairs judgement, being over the limit sure as hell dramatically increases your risk of having an accident.
Innocent until guilty, absolutely, but if anyone is found guilty of drink driving that should be locked up.
Innocent until guilty, absolutely, but if anyone is found guilty of drink driving that should be locked up.
Ciaran, we must have different law books, as the charge of recklessness can be assigned to criminal damage, even in circumstances where there is no danager of harm to a person. recklessness is simply unjustified risk taking, nothing to infer that it has to involve the risk of injury/death.
Geoff, good for you fella. Have you ever run across the road when drunk? (if you say no then I am pretty sure you are a liar)
Brian,
Did you witness Mr Pienaar driving after drinking more than the legal limit that evening?
Do you carry collaborated testing equipment and managed to test him after he was stopped?
Were you the arresting officer?
Were you at the station when further tests were conducted?
Do you know any more about the case other than the myopic bit released to the press?
Are you a Judge?
Have you go any idea how the law works?
Have you an all seeing eye?
Are you a God?
If you answer no to any of the above then I think it’s unfair of you to start judging him before he’s been in front of a Judge and his case heard.
It is irrelevant that he is currently under contract at our club.
Do you know what I find funny? None of it.
If found guilty in court (rather than an internet forum), then dependent on the facts presented I’m sure the club will act accordingly.
Personally I think a token fine (which may not have any real effect on someone’s salary) and points/temporary ban is not enough - but then that is once someone is convicted of drink driving rather than when someone’s been arrested and charged.
Did you witness Mr Pienaar driving after drinking more than the legal limit that evening?
Do you carry collaborated testing equipment and managed to test him after he was stopped?
Were you the arresting officer?
Were you at the station when further tests were conducted?
Do you know any more about the case other than the myopic bit released to the press?
Are you a Judge?
Have you go any idea how the law works?
Have you an all seeing eye?
Are you a God?
If you answer no to any of the above then I think it’s unfair of you to start judging him before he’s been in front of a Judge and his case heard.
It is irrelevant that he is currently under contract at our club.
Do you know what I find funny? None of it.
If found guilty in court (rather than an internet forum), then dependent on the facts presented I’m sure the club will act accordingly.
Personally I think a token fine (which may not have any real effect on someone’s salary) and points/temporary ban is not enough - but then that is once someone is convicted of drink driving rather than when someone’s been arrested and charged.
Possible ban and fine...then again if he’s used that hot shot lawyer maybe nowt
Brain Waring. On my previous comments I said Everybody deserves some sort of forgiveness. For a first offence I would still think the same if he was a Liverpool, Man U or Chelsea player. Its when people, in all walks of life, don’t learn from their mistakes and carry on re-offending, then and only then do they deserve everything they get. Pienaar will be dealt with according to the law as a 1st offener. If in the future he re-offends then he will be dealt with a lot more severley and rightly so. We all make mistakes, it’s part of being a human being.
Err, hang on Chad, your point of innocent until proven guilty doesn’t stand up,I was pointing out that he had been charged with drink driving, so for the police to have charged him with that offence, they would have had to have evidence, ie a breathalyser test,so he has been proven to be guilty because they charged him, if that’s not the case, then why is he appearing in court on the charge of drink driving?
Do you think the police just pull you up, and say " I’m charging you with drink driving, and your going to court sonny " without being able to back it up?
Also, it has been said on Toffeeweb, that he’s appearing in court for going through a red light, not being funny, but my other half jumped a red light, and got an on the spot fine, not a court appearance.
I think some of you need to get the chip of your shoulders, because the way some of you are going on, you would have thought he had been given a parking fine.
Do you think the police just pull you up, and say " I’m charging you with drink driving, and your going to court sonny " without being able to back it up?
Also, it has been said on Toffeeweb, that he’s appearing in court for going through a red light, not being funny, but my other half jumped a red light, and got an on the spot fine, not a court appearance.
I think some of you need to get the chip of your shoulders, because the way some of you are going on, you would have thought he had been given a parking fine.
Tony...
No idea what criminal damage has to do with this debate...It was about recklessness in relation to life and limb...and the law certainly enshrines such a principle in relation to driving offences...
No idea what criminal damage has to do with this debate...It was about recklessness in relation to life and limb...and the law certainly enshrines such a principle in relation to driving offences...
"Punishment has to be proportionate to the crime, and innocent until proven guilty... he has been charged not sentenced. "
-------------
Yes, that’s why I put the initial caveat of ’If this is true’ ...on my first post.
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Yes, that’s why I put the initial caveat of ’If this is true’ ...on my first post.
One more thing, I don’t go along with the idea that he should be sacked. Also Kevin, I agree, people make mistakes, and should be given a second chance, the problem I have is the way that some on here are seeming to defend his actions, as if it was okay because no-one was hurt etc.
Firstly, I don’t think anyone is saying that what Pienaar did is ok. The difference of opinion is about what the club should do about it. A minority believe Everton should get shut of him, while a majority think differently.
Secondly (and this is for Brian Waring) The police do not have the power to find anybody guilty. The breathalyser results are merely evidence that the prosecution can place before a Court. In fact, breathalyser evidence is never enough on it’s own to secure a conviction and once arrested the police will request a blood sample because it is more accurate (breathalyser evidence is notoriously inaccurate). If you refuse to give a blood sample then you will be charged with failing to do so which carries exactly the same potential penalties as drink-driving.
A positive breath test is NOT proof of driving under the influence.Pienaar is innocent until due process finds him guilty....including if he pleads guilty.
Secondly (and this is for Brian Waring) The police do not have the power to find anybody guilty. The breathalyser results are merely evidence that the prosecution can place before a Court. In fact, breathalyser evidence is never enough on it’s own to secure a conviction and once arrested the police will request a blood sample because it is more accurate (breathalyser evidence is notoriously inaccurate). If you refuse to give a blood sample then you will be charged with failing to do so which carries exactly the same potential penalties as drink-driving.
A positive breath test is NOT proof of driving under the influence.Pienaar is innocent until due process finds him guilty....including if he pleads guilty.
Ciaran, criminal damage has everything to do with "the law", as in "I think you’ll find that recklessness does represent a threat to life in the context of the law", a sentence which was part of this debate, wherein I suggested that it didn’t necessarily mean "life threatening"
Dave - check your police books mate coz they need updating!!!
If you blow positive at the roadside you get arrested and taken to a police station. There you are asked for TWO more breath samples on a very fancy machine that is also very accurate. This gives a reading of the amount of alcohol in your system via your breath. the limit is 35 microgrammes of alcohol in 100 milliltres of breath. If you blow under then you dont get charged with anything and youre released. 36-40 you get a warning and advice. 41-50 you get the OPTION of providing blood which gets sent of for analysis and over 50 you get charged and sent to Court. In this case as hes been charged we can safely assume he provided the 2 samples at the police station and blew in excess of 50 hence the charge and pending Court appearance.
As a police officer of 20yrs I have arrested countless people for this offence and not one has been found not guilty. So I think its also pretty safe to assume that he will be found Guilty, banned from driving and given a fine which he ll pay out of his 50k a week wages!!!
I hope that clears that one up!!!
If you blow positive at the roadside you get arrested and taken to a police station. There you are asked for TWO more breath samples on a very fancy machine that is also very accurate. This gives a reading of the amount of alcohol in your system via your breath. the limit is 35 microgrammes of alcohol in 100 milliltres of breath. If you blow under then you dont get charged with anything and youre released. 36-40 you get a warning and advice. 41-50 you get the OPTION of providing blood which gets sent of for analysis and over 50 you get charged and sent to Court. In this case as hes been charged we can safely assume he provided the 2 samples at the police station and blew in excess of 50 hence the charge and pending Court appearance.
As a police officer of 20yrs I have arrested countless people for this offence and not one has been found not guilty. So I think its also pretty safe to assume that he will be found Guilty, banned from driving and given a fine which he ll pay out of his 50k a week wages!!!
I hope that clears that one up!!!
Brian Waring: "Chad, to have been charged with drink driving, he must have been breathalysed and been found to be over the limit, so how can he be innocent until proven guilty? "
Brain Waring, twice you have claimed that a breathalyser test is incontrivertable.
Its not. You are actually entitled to a blood test in cases where you are marginally over the limit.
Although you’re lack of knowledge proves (!) not many people know this part of the Road Traffic Act.
So you’re well out of order castigating Pienaar until the details are heard in the magistrates court.
And contrary to Sean’s contribution, Do you think the police officers would have said "41-50 you get the OPTION of providing blood which gets sent of for analysis"... I doubt it!
Lets wait and see if he was given the option, and procedures are followed first. Its why its going to the magistrates court in the first place.
Brain Waring, twice you have claimed that a breathalyser test is incontrivertable.
Its not. You are actually entitled to a blood test in cases where you are marginally over the limit.
Although you’re lack of knowledge proves (!) not many people know this part of the Road Traffic Act.
So you’re well out of order castigating Pienaar until the details are heard in the magistrates court.
And contrary to Sean’s contribution, Do you think the police officers would have said "41-50 you get the OPTION of providing blood which gets sent of for analysis"... I doubt it!
Lets wait and see if he was given the option, and procedures are followed first. Its why its going to the magistrates court in the first place.
This is exactly the kind of thing that makes me despise footballers. Complete and utter idiots with total disregard for their actions.
If he is found guilty of drink driving he should be harshly punished.
If he is found guilty of drink driving he should be harshly punished.
Mark, he gets the option as it's the law. the police MUST give it to him or the case is dismissed.
I’ll not advise on your job if you dont advise me on mine. Trust me on this.He was pissed and blew over 50.
Treat yourself to a copy of the road traffic act. It's a cracking read!!!
I’ll not advise on your job if you dont advise me on mine. Trust me on this.He was pissed and blew over 50.
Treat yourself to a copy of the road traffic act. It's a cracking read!!!
Get rid and set an example to the other players.
Yes, James, it is of course only footballers, every single one of them, who drink and drive. No one else does.
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1 Posted 23/02/2010 at 20:18:40
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