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As a club and support we pride ourselves on our togetherness, our community, us against the world. The club itself sponsors players to go out to schools and has many local and international initiatives.
That being said, now one of our own puts himself in the spotlight with drink driving, I would ask what if there is anything should the club do to ensure the right message is given out to those we are supposed to be trying to influence, i.e the kids.
In my opinion its not acceptable in this day and age we can just shrug our shoulders and say it's got nowt to do with footy so keep it separate. If that's the case, the club and support should not get involved in local initiatives.
We all make mistakes and do things we regret. Probably many have had a good bevvy and got behind the wheel — doesn't make it right.
But there has to be consequences...
I seem to remember Cadamarteri being shown the door.
Should Piennar be too?
John Keating, Posted 23/02/2010 at 18:30:02
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If found guilty then yes he has to go
Are you freaking serious?!! Show Pienaar the door for an act that has nothing to do with his job? The club gets involved with the community to give something back to the people who support their business and try to build a relationship with it’s fan base. If you as a parent ever, EVER, tell your child to look up to a professional athlete as a role model then it is the parent that has failed. The only role model your child should have is the person they hopefully see every day, their parents. Pienaar is a fantastic footballer, and that is all a child should be looking to him for, as an example of how to be good on the pitch. Period.
David Barks; spot on. He’s a footballer not a role model. And what happened to innocent until proven guilty? Suggest get the facts before judgement is passed. I believe he’s accused of jumping a light. Probably thought he was back in Jo’burg.
Bob, I thought he was charged with drink driving? As I mentioned on another thread, for him to have been charged with drink driving, he would have had to have been breathalysed and found to be over the limit, so innocent until proven guilty doesn’t come into it, because it has already been proven. Also, if it as you say, it was because he had jumped a red light, he would have had a on the spot fine, not a court appearance.
Tell ya what I wouldn’t like to be coming to you Geoff Trenner seeking forgiveness.
"If found guilty he has to go". Absolute bollix. Tell me why exactly.
Granted there are some companies out there who implement policies that employment is discontinued in the case of drink driving. I would very much doubt that there is such a policy in operation at Everton Football Club or anything mentioned within his contract.
Let’s face it when it comes to being a role model - he is indeed that - in footballing terms. How many kids will actually hear about this on the news - other than those who take 5 minute breaks away from their xboxes?
Sometimes I really think we overestimate the role of role models. Do we actually expect kids to now develop a mentality of "Well if Steven Pienaar is drink driving then its good enough for me".
If he is guilty then he will be brought to justice by the law - all in relatively quiet terms such is the Everton way and will get on with his football like the professional he is.
"If found guilty he has to go". Absolute bollix. Tell me why exactly.
Granted there are some companies out there who implement policies that employment is discontinued in the case of drink driving. I would very much doubt that there is such a policy in operation at Everton Football Club or anything mentioned within his contract.
Let’s face it when it comes to being a role model - he is indeed that - in footballing terms. How many kids will actually hear about this on the news - other than those who take 5 minute breaks away from their xboxes?
Sometimes I really think we overestimate the role of role models. Do we actually expect kids to now develop a mentality of "Well if Steven Pienaar is drink driving then its good enough for me".
If he is guilty then he will be brought to justice by the law - all in relatively quiet terms such is the Everton way and will get on with his football like the professional he is.
Did we sack ferguson for being sent to prison after numerous counts of gbh both on and off the pitch????? No in fact we signed him on a permanent deal and we the fans rewarded him by awarding him legendary status.
Didi Hamann has just been found guilty of drink driving ands banned for16 months.
He employed "celebrity lawyer" Nick Freemans firm to defend him, who tried to get him off on a technicality.
According to police reports he was totally out of it, weaving all over the road, mounting the kirb three times and unable to stand or speak properly when police stopped him.
He is the luckiest man in the world that he did not kill some one, but still tried to get off the charge, fucking disgusting.
I hope Pienaar realises he is very lucky and just takes his punishment.
Of course he would have to be fired, if he was the bus driver.
He employed "celebrity lawyer" Nick Freemans firm to defend him, who tried to get him off on a technicality.
According to police reports he was totally out of it, weaving all over the road, mounting the kirb three times and unable to stand or speak properly when police stopped him.
He is the luckiest man in the world that he did not kill some one, but still tried to get off the charge, fucking disgusting.
I hope Pienaar realises he is very lucky and just takes his punishment.
Of course he would have to be fired, if he was the bus driver.
Hamann was also reportedly handcuffed because he told the arresting officers he had a knife.
If found guilty Pienaar will have been adjudged to have broken the law and he will be punished by the law. He will be fined and lose his license for a period.
If his job depended on having a license he may well lose it....but footballers don’t need driving licenses so it should have no affect on his job.
A player was recently (was it last year?) imprisoned for killing two children while driving under the influence. He lost his job because while in prison he couldn’t play. That will not be the position with Pienaar, especially if it is his first offence.
If Steven Gerrard can walk up to a lad sitting quietly by the bar and lay into him with uppercuts then claim it was self-defence and get off with it, then I won’t be embarrassed having a convicted drunk driver in the Everton team. At least he probably never set out to harm anybody, as stupid as he was.
It doesn’t excuse what he has done...just puts it into perspective that’s all.
If found guilty Pienaar will have been adjudged to have broken the law and he will be punished by the law. He will be fined and lose his license for a period.
If his job depended on having a license he may well lose it....but footballers don’t need driving licenses so it should have no affect on his job.
A player was recently (was it last year?) imprisoned for killing two children while driving under the influence. He lost his job because while in prison he couldn’t play. That will not be the position with Pienaar, especially if it is his first offence.
If Steven Gerrard can walk up to a lad sitting quietly by the bar and lay into him with uppercuts then claim it was self-defence and get off with it, then I won’t be embarrassed having a convicted drunk driver in the Everton team. At least he probably never set out to harm anybody, as stupid as he was.
It doesn’t excuse what he has done...just puts it into perspective that’s all.
The law is there to deal with Pienaar...it should only affect a person’s employment if it’s explicit in their contract ..
However, if it’s true - he’s still a moron...
However, if it’s true - he’s still a moron...
Didn’t Cadamarteri beat some bird up though?
For fuck sake, its hardly the worst offence in the world (I am not condoning it) but he hasn’t ran some old biddy over on the way.
He hasn’t beaten up some cocky DJ!!!
He will be banned from DRIVING, thats all that it should effect. He will also get a fine of a few hundred quid which I am sure will really hit him hard.
For fuck sake, its hardly the worst offence in the world (I am not condoning it) but he hasn’t ran some old biddy over on the way.
He hasn’t beaten up some cocky DJ!!!
He will be banned from DRIVING, thats all that it should effect. He will also get a fine of a few hundred quid which I am sure will really hit him hard.
Is there an argument that he is damaging the image of the club?
I certainly don’t like hearing about it and doubt it has impressed his gaffer much either.
From what I can gather it is a cut and dried case and therefore he is a blurt for doing it.
I certainly don’t like hearing about it and doubt it has impressed his gaffer much either.
From what I can gather it is a cut and dried case and therefore he is a blurt for doing it.
When are these idiots going to learn? And when is the club going to insist...
Hire a full time fucking driver!!!
There should be a club mandate - to and from a game, or if you’re going out at night, hire a driver... Nuff said, problem solved.
Hire a full time fucking driver!!!
There should be a club mandate - to and from a game, or if you’re going out at night, hire a driver... Nuff said, problem solved.
We should expect the highest standards of behaviour from Everton and our players, and god forbid we become a Chelsea or a Leeds or whatever and be embarrassed by OUR club on a consistent basis.
I would rather lose than win by cheating or win by having players who I can’t respect or expect my kids to respect.
Having said that, even if proven guilty it is a first offence, and I think a formal apology in the press and program, combined with perhaps making him do community service, perhaps even pre-season while other WC participants get an extended break.
It partly depends how pissed he was as well: just over? well over? paralytic? who knows the truth?
I hope he does not have to be shipped off because if this, unless we think he has a problem that cannot be helped (AVDM anyone?). Even better, just make him sign a 5 year contract instead ... :-P
Nil Satis Nisi Optimum.
I would rather lose than win by cheating or win by having players who I can’t respect or expect my kids to respect.
Having said that, even if proven guilty it is a first offence, and I think a formal apology in the press and program, combined with perhaps making him do community service, perhaps even pre-season while other WC participants get an extended break.
It partly depends how pissed he was as well: just over? well over? paralytic? who knows the truth?
I hope he does not have to be shipped off because if this, unless we think he has a problem that cannot be helped (AVDM anyone?). Even better, just make him sign a 5 year contract instead ... :-P
Nil Satis Nisi Optimum.
No, way over the top getting rid of our gem.
On a side note, didnt pienaars south african team mate kill someone drink driving last year?
Something moon, could be wrong though
On a side note, didnt pienaars south african team mate kill someone drink driving last year?
Something moon, could be wrong though
He has been a fool,
off point but I though this site, and sites like this , were to express an opinion, without censorship. Appears this site is run like Fox TV.
off point but I though this site, and sites like this , were to express an opinion, without censorship. Appears this site is run like Fox TV.
Blah, Blah, Blah.
Get over it guys. he has done it. He will get punished by the law. Enough said.
He is still a fucking quality player who we bloody need. So get behind him on the pitch.
Get over it guys. he has done it. He will get punished by the law. Enough said.
He is still a fucking quality player who we bloody need. So get behind him on the pitch.
David, Craig.
The point of the post was not only to expess disgust but to make a point that the players are representing our club 24 hours a day whilst they are signed.
In a perfect world our kids would only respect and look up to their parents but we all know thats not the case. Kids are grown up well before their time now.
They hear us speak, see the news, see the Echo etc etc.
They do hold pop stars, footballers as role models.
As was stated in another post couldn’t the club lay on drivers for the team.
Could not the players go out of town for a night out God knows they earn enough could they not book a night out say in Birmingham and book a hotel overnight.
Where do we say enough. OK in this case no one was injured. What would you say if someone were injured and it was you daughter, mother.
What is acceptable ?
Drink driving is ok today.
Marlon King beat up someone so is that not ok ?
Where does it end ? Rape - well its ok cos he was pissed and didn’t know what he was doing ?
We have to draw line somewhere.
The point of the post was not only to expess disgust but to make a point that the players are representing our club 24 hours a day whilst they are signed.
In a perfect world our kids would only respect and look up to their parents but we all know thats not the case. Kids are grown up well before their time now.
They hear us speak, see the news, see the Echo etc etc.
They do hold pop stars, footballers as role models.
As was stated in another post couldn’t the club lay on drivers for the team.
Could not the players go out of town for a night out God knows they earn enough could they not book a night out say in Birmingham and book a hotel overnight.
Where do we say enough. OK in this case no one was injured. What would you say if someone were injured and it was you daughter, mother.
What is acceptable ?
Drink driving is ok today.
Marlon King beat up someone so is that not ok ?
Where does it end ? Rape - well its ok cos he was pissed and didn’t know what he was doing ?
We have to draw line somewhere.
Mr Keating. You don’t know how far over the limit he was.
You also have to remember that Pienaar has a right to have any discplinary matter be dealt with confidentially.
Which I am sure is how the club will start, and at the very least wait till the magistrates appearance (he won’t attend the hearing and isn’t required to - his legal representative will).
Then the club (like any employer will respond).
However I don’t think its appropriate to start gathering a posse, with pitch forks and torches yet.
You should wait on an explaination first and if wrong has been done, a genuine apology.
You also have to remember that Pienaar has a right to have any discplinary matter be dealt with confidentially.
Which I am sure is how the club will start, and at the very least wait till the magistrates appearance (he won’t attend the hearing and isn’t required to - his legal representative will).
Then the club (like any employer will respond).
However I don’t think its appropriate to start gathering a posse, with pitch forks and torches yet.
You should wait on an explaination first and if wrong has been done, a genuine apology.
Well, let's point out that, yes, if he’d killed somebody, yes, if he’d injured somebody...
But the reality is he was doing something thousands of young men do because they can’t be arsed waiting for a night bus or getting a taxi.
I don’t give one what they do off the pitch as long as it's not severely wrong or involves me — all I care about is they win on the pitch. My opinion would probably different if he ran over one of my friends or family but no, he shouldn’t be shown the door.
Mark
you are right. I should wait.
Just a point though, over the limit is over the limit.
Please believe me when I say that I am as big a Piennar fan as anyone and no way would I wish him any ill.
Regarding posse, pitch forks, torches etc - well please don’t insult me.
My concern is genuine and if you feel you need to raise it to a racist issue then I feel sorry and contempt for you
you are right. I should wait.
Just a point though, over the limit is over the limit.
Please believe me when I say that I am as big a Piennar fan as anyone and no way would I wish him any ill.
Regarding posse, pitch forks, torches etc - well please don’t insult me.
My concern is genuine and if you feel you need to raise it to a racist issue then I feel sorry and contempt for you
John Keating,
You don’t get to have any say whatsoever in what is acceptable for an employee of Everton football club, because you are not employed by Everton Football Club as one of his superiors.
What would I say if someone was injured or if it was my daughter or mother? I’d say the same thing as I would if it was anybody driving that car, prosecute them to the full extent of the law, IN COURT. It has nothing to do with Everton.
Get a grip. This is not Everton’s responsibility to deal with unless he was currently on the clock working, which he obviously wasn’t. It’s a legal issue, period. Courts are there to deal with this. Unless you think it is fair for the police to report to your employer anytime you are involved in any way with them? If I get in trouble with the law on Saturday night my employer should never be informed unless it directly effects them, otherwise it should remain a private matter handled through the court system.
You don’t get to have any say whatsoever in what is acceptable for an employee of Everton football club, because you are not employed by Everton Football Club as one of his superiors.
What would I say if someone was injured or if it was my daughter or mother? I’d say the same thing as I would if it was anybody driving that car, prosecute them to the full extent of the law, IN COURT. It has nothing to do with Everton.
Get a grip. This is not Everton’s responsibility to deal with unless he was currently on the clock working, which he obviously wasn’t. It’s a legal issue, period. Courts are there to deal with this. Unless you think it is fair for the police to report to your employer anytime you are involved in any way with them? If I get in trouble with the law on Saturday night my employer should never be informed unless it directly effects them, otherwise it should remain a private matter handled through the court system.
Who mentioned anything about race?
Have you never heard of the Salem-Witchhunts? Or maybe read "Frankenstein"?
Pitchforks and torches doesn’t have any relation to race - so for sure don’t think that I meant anything like that.
I’m merely saying you should wait and see and if wrong is done, then Pienaar can explain himself.
Have you never heard of the Salem-Witchhunts? Or maybe read "Frankenstein"?
Pitchforks and torches doesn’t have any relation to race - so for sure don’t think that I meant anything like that.
I’m merely saying you should wait and see and if wrong is done, then Pienaar can explain himself.
And how do you get people accusing you of racism? The posse with pitchforks and torches is symbolic of an angry mob taking justice into their own hands, not racism. Goodness.
Definitely not. There will be a queue forming outside Goodison to sign him if we do.
Stupid of me.
Apologies.
Posse, pitchforks, torches.
How could any right minded person equate those words with the KKK and racism.
Goodness.
Apologies.
Posse, pitchforks, torches.
How could any right minded person equate those words with the KKK and racism.
Goodness.
The KKK connection to pitchforks and torches is coincidental here, John. David and Mark are right; they’re emblematic of popular uprisings.
I realise that this thread is tangential to football in the first place, but can we leave the racism merry-go-round and get back on topic?
I realise that this thread is tangential to football in the first place, but can we leave the racism merry-go-round and get back on topic?
I’ll just second Ciarán on this one
Apologies to all regarding jumping gun with race.
Just gets me angry with drink driving regardless of who they are as I know consequences first hand.
Just gets me angry with drink driving regardless of who they are as I know consequences first hand.
As Pienaar’s been the victim of his own stupidity and ignorance...
Leave it to the courts and Everton’s HR procedures to sort it out.
If this were a regular occurance or a 2nd occassion then maybe the opposing opinion might have some merit.
However, its not. So for God sake let boy learn from his mistake.
As someone else said, you don’t know what culture he’s been brought up in relating to alcohol and this will just be a wake up call to him.
Leave it to the courts and Everton’s HR procedures to sort it out.
If this were a regular occurance or a 2nd occassion then maybe the opposing opinion might have some merit.
However, its not. So for God sake let boy learn from his mistake.
As someone else said, you don’t know what culture he’s been brought up in relating to alcohol and this will just be a wake up call to him.
The Dunc was done for drink driving just fter he joined Everton when he drove through Paradise St bus station the Dunc also was jailed but no one called for his head.
Best chance to get rid ever.
I hope God has forgiven him
As has been said above - the police will deal with it as they would with anyone else and unless his off-field activities start to HABITUALLY damage the good name of Everton Football Club then that should be the end of it - talk of getting rid of him after an isolated incident like this (albeit one where he has been absolutely stupid) is hugely over-reactive in my opinion.
As has been said many times over the last few weeks with other stories in the press (John Terry, Ashley Cole, Tiger Woods etc.) - if you allow your children to hold footballers and sportsmen as MORAL role models then you are quite simply failing as a parent. There is no problem with them try to emulate the sporting ability and dedication that has got these people to the top of their profession, but that is where it should end, and it’s your duty as a parent to teach your children what the difference is.
As for children not really taking notice of this sort of stuff, my 7-year-old Everton-mad son told his mum about Pienaar the other day after reading it on the BBC website (that he follows avidly). He said "Pienaar has been arrested for drinking and driving, isn’t he stupid ? With all the money footballers earn you would think he would have enough money for someone to drive him around or to get a taxi ?".
That about sums it up for me.
As has been said many times over the last few weeks with other stories in the press (John Terry, Ashley Cole, Tiger Woods etc.) - if you allow your children to hold footballers and sportsmen as MORAL role models then you are quite simply failing as a parent. There is no problem with them try to emulate the sporting ability and dedication that has got these people to the top of their profession, but that is where it should end, and it’s your duty as a parent to teach your children what the difference is.
As for children not really taking notice of this sort of stuff, my 7-year-old Everton-mad son told his mum about Pienaar the other day after reading it on the BBC website (that he follows avidly). He said "Pienaar has been arrested for drinking and driving, isn’t he stupid ? With all the money footballers earn you would think he would have enough money for someone to drive him around or to get a taxi ?".
That about sums it up for me.
John, the point I am making is that the punishment should fit the crime.
Drink driving is not the worst crime in the world. no it isn’t exceptable which is why he will be banned from driving.
That doesn’t mean he should be banned from playing football/lose his job.
Our kids look at players as role models absolultly but it is our jobs as parents to bring them up to know what is right and wrong. Also i think that they look at what they do on the football pitch, not on there way home from the pub.
Good debate though!
Drink driving is not the worst crime in the world. no it isn’t exceptable which is why he will be banned from driving.
That doesn’t mean he should be banned from playing football/lose his job.
Our kids look at players as role models absolultly but it is our jobs as parents to bring them up to know what is right and wrong. Also i think that they look at what they do on the football pitch, not on there way home from the pub.
Good debate though!
David Barks,
To answer your query, he IS quite rightly innocent until proven guilty. The police have no right and/or power whatsoever to declare anybody as being guilty of any offence. How could they be impartial?
He is charged with drink driving but not yet convicted. The police have gathered evidence (e.g. the breathalyser) which the state will use against him in a court of law to prove his guilt. Equally Pienaar has every right to question the validity/reliability of any evidence against him.
I concur that these cases are more often than not clear cut, especially with the benefit of breathlyser results. However the day we start to allow the police to determine inocence/guilt is the day democracy dies.
If he’s found guilty, you can hate him all you want in two short weeks.
To answer your query, he IS quite rightly innocent until proven guilty. The police have no right and/or power whatsoever to declare anybody as being guilty of any offence. How could they be impartial?
He is charged with drink driving but not yet convicted. The police have gathered evidence (e.g. the breathalyser) which the state will use against him in a court of law to prove his guilt. Equally Pienaar has every right to question the validity/reliability of any evidence against him.
I concur that these cases are more often than not clear cut, especially with the benefit of breathlyser results. However the day we start to allow the police to determine inocence/guilt is the day democracy dies.
If he’s found guilty, you can hate him all you want in two short weeks.
Touchy feelie, moral high ground PC bollocks.
Not many other jobs, as thats all it is, give you the sack for DIC and as for role model...twaddle!
In all these and other ’ disputes ’ where the job is given more attention than the crime ie Joe Bloggs did, or did not do xxxxxxxxx and because He’s a xxxxx and in the public eye, I always apply the WELDER test, transposed as thus...
Steven Pienaar(27) a Welder of Garston ( or Derek Thomas for that matter aged a lot more) was fined 1000pound and banned for 6mths (or what ever),everybody would say...
STUPID BASTARD, SHOULD HAVE KNOW BETTER, SERVES YOU RIGHT, now get the bus for 6mths.
Not many other jobs, as thats all it is, give you the sack for DIC and as for role model...twaddle!
In all these and other ’ disputes ’ where the job is given more attention than the crime ie Joe Bloggs did, or did not do xxxxxxxxx and because He’s a xxxxx and in the public eye, I always apply the WELDER test, transposed as thus...
Steven Pienaar(27) a Welder of Garston ( or Derek Thomas for that matter aged a lot more) was fined 1000pound and banned for 6mths (or what ever),everybody would say...
STUPID BASTARD, SHOULD HAVE KNOW BETTER, SERVES YOU RIGHT, now get the bus for 6mths.
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1 Posted 24/02/2010 at 15:10:29
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