The Mail Bag
What now?
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Phil Rodgers has commented on Joey's Brown's post that overall it has been a poor season with a smattering of good results thrown in. With eleven games left I'm just wondering what people think about what way we should do things for those eleven games.
For myself, I'm torn between pushing things to see how high up the league we finish and playing a number of the younger players as much as we can.
Right now I'm leaning towards giving the likes of Coleman, Duffy Rodwell and Gosling every minute of playing time that we can and then a full pre season in the summer. I appreciate the possible implications in terms of prize money and how some of the senior players may see it but I just think that we have a lot to gain by giving these players valuable experience and also trying different things on the pitch. Get ourselves set up for a proper run at things next season and have some proper preparation done for once.
I know people are probably as deflated as I am with how the week has turned out after last Saturday but I'm just interested to see what people think.
Kieran Fitzgerald, Posted 28/02/2010 at 17:58:21
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Currently, we are unable to compete with the Sky 4, Man City or Spurs (who have benefitted from the agressive takeover over Portsmouth to become one superclub ... Tottenham Portspurs).
Whilst disappointing, this is realistic. Finishing below anyone esle (Fulham, Birmingham) would be failure - but increasingly likely if we rely too much on youngsters.
2. Heitinga and Jags should be paired at CB immediately as they are the likely first choice next season.
3. Coleman should be given some games at right back.
There is no way the above would seriously weaken the side and as such no reason why we cannot finish the season strongly. There is still an outside chance that 7th may get a european spot and that should be our aim.
Of course non of the above will happen as it requires Moyes to drop Neville, Distin and Osman. Having said that maybe thats why he is holding off trying to lengthen Donovans loan, so he doesnt have to drop one of his buddies !!!
I agree 100% and perhaps would add that Moyes should do all he can to secure Donovan’s services as soon as possible. Whether that is this season or next, I do not care, as long as it is asap.
I suppose as a follow up to my post, it is trying to find a balance with giving the younger players enough games to keep them interested whilst keeping the senior players happy, especially the likes of Hetinga who you want to try and keep at the club like we have Arteta and Pienaar.
Mark Stone, I would agree with your points as well. Villa and Spurs have been there or there abouts for the last couple of seasons. Given that they have have had less injuries this season and I suppose it was only a matter of time before one or both of them outdid us over the course of a season. The fact that it has come in part on the back of some poor performances from us is galling none the less. But definitely, finishing below Fulham or Birmingham would be horrible.
I would be quite happy to start next season with the current squad plus a couple of free transfers (Beckford and Ledley ?) and maybe some loans towards the end of August.
I still feel that Moyes has to demonstrate to the top list that he actually has a pool of 18-20 players or so he can rotate (that’s what you need to do in today’s game) with little effect on the quality. They will want that assurance, particularly Pinnear, and I suspect Fellaini and Heitinga. To do that he has to balance the issue of finding his best team and formation as well as introducing and giving time to Billy,Coleman, Yak, Gosling and Anichebe . I suspect Yobo,Senderos, Baxter, Vaughan will be allowed to leave.
Howard
Neville / Coleman
Heitings
Jagielka
Baines
Donovan
Arteta
Fellaini
Pienaar
Cahill
Saha
The problem is this poses a couple of problems for Moyes.
1. We never have everyone fit.
2. The above team means him leaving out the likes of Osman and Hibbert and possibly Neville if you were to side with Coleman. This he will not do.
Moyes will always go with a player who offers defensive qualities and workrate as opposed to a gifted attacking player.
This isnt meant as a rant at Moyes, its just fact. I should also applaud him for improving the team dramatically during his tenure as manager.
I don’t think I can handle the embarassment anymore to be honest.
The above means, in my opinion this season is pretty much wrote off.
Next season I’d like us to forget Europe and try and bring some domestic silverware back to Goodison, you’ve all heard the saying "creep before you can crawl" and at the moment Everton are trying to run before we can even walk.
We haven’t had domestic success for nearly 16 years, yet we try and take on some of Europe’s biggest and most experienced Clubs to try and win the UEFA Cup, it’s ridiculous.
My only resevation is If Pip does go who’s going to lead the team on the pitch? Mikel is the obvious candidate but dont think he’s vocal enough, that type.
We could do a lot worse than getting Jags up to fitness and giving it to him - did you see some of the tackles he put in today, throwing himself on the line? Brilliant.
Coleman - Jags - JH - Baines
Now that sounds like a brillaint back 4 for the future.
Fellaini - Pienaar - Arteta in the middle plus a quality right winger
Cahill to play in and out , here and there with Saha and A N Other - a quality, quick, sharp, young forward we can bring on to be a world class forward. Not JV or VA, they’ve got to go. Someone else, I dont know who, he must be out there though.
Nothing to play for now but pride but don’t expect things to change much with Moyes.
We should also bin the 4-5-1 formation and be a lot more positive with 2 up front. 4-5-1 is great when it works, but I think it has far too often got turned into 9-0-1, with players unsure who they’re meant to be picking up and with us unable to get out of our own half due to having no ability to hold the ball up when its cleared.
There is only one thing worse than losing a game, and thats losing a game you never had any ambition to win. I think Moyes should release the shackles somewhat and start experimenting with more positive formations and tactics for the remainder of the season. Give some younger players a chance to get experience. We have a relatively easy run in and nothing to fear from any team other than perhaps villa away.
Yes, JV and VA , along with the Yak, all need to move on, and I also support the idea of Neville going on to the coaching staff.Yobo, Senderos and Distain are not solid, or reliable enough and,much as I like Howard, we need some decent competition in the nets too. Let the youngsterskeep coming through as part of the squad and, we can begin to believe again.
My problem is that watching that first half rubbish last night (I’m from Oz and stayed up for a late night/early morning match even with work only 5.5 hrs after full time) the performance of Anichibe and Yakubu was disgraceful.
Removing our first choice team and few hanger ons (Rodwell, Bilyaletdinov, Gosling), the rest of our squad are either kids, second rate, or in the case on anichibe second rate kids!
I believe we should jettison these players and bring in someone with promise:
Yobo
Yakubu
Anichibe (not targeting Nigerians here, honest)
Hibert
Vaughan
Senderos (going to happen soon anyway)
As for bringing in players, i think its fairly obvious a back up or two for saha is on the cards, any suggestions
2. The fact that he’s our captain doesn’t make him good. Neville is just not good enough. Shouting isn’t leadership and it isn’t good football. He doesn’t bring anything to the team (no tackling ability, no speed, no vision, no passing, no crossing...)
Vic hasn’t played football since last year, so he isn’t match sharp. If we had a fully fit team, he may not even be on the bench. You can’t really judge him because of that reason alone. Aside from that he was played again out of position on the wings because we have to play 4-5-1 until we’re at least 2 goals down!
The issues with our performances in lisbon and spurs come from other areas of the team than just up front. I think players like neville are more culpable than our forwards. He just isn’t positive enough, continually passing back to the goalkeeper when given any chance, or giving it to the opposition. This makes all the players nervy. We need a captain who is both vocal and a good footballing role model on the pitch. Someone who sets a positive tone like Jags, Heitinga or Pienaar.
I cannot believe anyone ever thinks its a good idea not to qualify for Europe. We have had a good run in the competition before and its a learning curve. To me, Moyes has not yet got the tactical know how in those games but you don’t get that by not being in the competition.
As for giving young players a chance, give me a break. We need to get our best team on the pitch as regularly as possible with an eye on next season and starting from the first game rather than in mid December. 7th may still be good enough for Europe and so we need to put Fulham & Birmingham out of sight first and then look at trying to catch one of the group going for 4th, all of which are no great shakes and can have a bad run. Plus finishing as high as possible in the league pays out more money than trying out various youngsters and formations and and then finishing 10th or 11th would.
Our best scenario was Man U winning league cup (done) and Chelsea playing Tottenham in the final of the FAC as both these sides are likely to both finish ahead of us and finish in the top 6, as such the european places would go down to 7th.
I agree with poster 4 that we should start preparing for next season by pairing Jags and Johnny in CB, with Arteta in front of them. This should be our long-term cornerstone, even if it takes a few games and results to smooth it out. COYB
I think Moyes should maybe write the season off and blood some youngsters on and off over the next few weeks. A year outside Europe might do our squad some good, particularly post World Cup
Arteta/Yak & Jags need to be given as much game time as possible.
Maybe give Cahill a bit of a rest and try YAK & SAHA together a bit more.
So with no fellaini, Neville should hold, and Coleman should be given a chance. thus allowing JH and jags at the back.
If Neville was ever dropped then Jags is next inline for the armband for me.
Yesterday he came on, and he organised the Defence which was the basis for our improvement.
People moan on about the marketing at Everton being shite, well, whats wrong with them trying to use some initiative for a change and capitalise on the back of 2 excellent results?
Won’t you ever want to re-watch those games and remind yourself how well we played?
http://evertondirect.evertonfc.com/stores/everton/products/product_details.aspx?pid=73150
Do we have to make ourselves such easy targets?! - I know they were great wins but we also lost the derby and got ko’d from Europe in Feb.
What is wrong with releasing something like this?
But, we’re meant to be challenging for a top 6 finish at least. We came 5th last year and reached the cup final.
Don’t you think it makes us appear to have a "small club mentality" to release a DVD of 2 home wins in February ,regardless of who they are against?
Quite rightly, Manure and Chelski fans might say we don’t need to make DVDs of the times they’ve punned us.
It’s a question of image, and of wider ambition.
Coleman has looked good at going forward in the games we have seen him play in. But how good a defender is he? As much as it is a delight to see full backs going forward and supporting attacks, your bread and butter is at the back. This might be a reason Moyes is not considering him yet.
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1 Posted 28/02/2010 at 15:46:50
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For the rest of the season I want to see us go hell for leather and try and get back into Europe.
Out of the young players, Ive been really impressed with Coleman and think he deserves a few games. If we get to a stage were we cant qualify for the Europa League then Id give the younger lads more opportunity.
Fingers crossed we can somehow finish 7th which would be a Euro slot.