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What now?

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Phil Rodgers has commented on Joey's Brown's post that overall it has been a poor season with a smattering of good results thrown in. With eleven games left I'm just wondering what people think about what way we should do things for those eleven games.

For myself, I'm torn between pushing things to see how high up the league we finish and playing a number of the younger players as much as we can.

Right now I'm leaning towards giving the likes of Coleman, Duffy Rodwell and Gosling every minute of playing time that we can and then a full pre season in the summer. I appreciate the possible implications in terms of prize money and how some of the senior players may see it but I just think that we have a lot to gain by giving these players valuable experience and also trying different things on the pitch. Get ourselves set up for a proper run at things next season and have some proper preparation done for once.

I know people are probably as deflated as I am with how the week has turned out after last Saturday but I'm just interested to see what people think.


Kieran Fitzgerald, Dublin/London     Posted 28/02/2010 at 17:58:21

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Si Mar
1   Posted 28/02/2010 at 15:46:50

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I suppose it has been a poor season but we are club who doesnt appear to have a great deal of money and had two of our best players out with injury for the majority and further knocks to key players throughout.

For the rest of the season I want to see us go hell for leather and try and get back into Europe.

Out of the young players, Ive been really impressed with Coleman and think he deserves a few games. If we get to a stage were we cant qualify for the Europa League then Id give the younger lads more opportunity.

Fingers crossed we can somehow finish 7th which would be a Euro slot.
Mark Stone
2   Posted 28/02/2010 at 15:46:25

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Finish as high as possible (8th) with our closest rivals again being Villa.

Currently, we are unable to compete with the Sky 4, Man City or Spurs (who have benefitted from the agressive takeover over Portsmouth to become one superclub ... Tottenham Portspurs).

Whilst disappointing, this is realistic. Finishing below anyone esle (Fulham, Birmingham) would be failure - but increasingly likely if we rely too much on youngsters.
Mike Green
3   Posted 28/02/2010 at 16:16:57

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Go out to win the remianing 11 games.
Mike Elbey
4   Posted 28/02/2010 at 16:20:37

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1. The rest of this season should be used to get Arteta and Jagielka as fit as possible and as such they should start every game.

2. Heitinga and Jags should be paired at CB immediately as they are the likely first choice next season.

3. Coleman should be given some games at right back.

There is no way the above would seriously weaken the side and as such no reason why we cannot finish the season strongly. There is still an outside chance that 7th may get a european spot and that should be our aim.

Of course non of the above will happen as it requires Moyes to drop Neville, Distin and Osman. Having said that maybe thats why he is holding off trying to lengthen Donovans loan, so he doesnt have to drop one of his buddies !!!



Glen Anderson
5   Posted 28/02/2010 at 16:40:55

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Mike Elbey - Spot on!

I agree 100% and perhaps would add that Moyes should do all he can to secure Donovan’s services as soon as possible. Whether that is this season or next, I do not care, as long as it is asap.
David Hallwood
6   Posted 28/02/2010 at 16:49:57

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It won’t happen but I’d like DM to say,that we’re not going to be relegated so let’s mix it up and maybe try Duffy, Coleman, Baxter etc, cetainly against Hull
Kieran Fitzgerald
7   Posted 28/02/2010 at 16:44:23

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Mike, I think that Hetinga and Jags together make more sense than playing Duffy. Sure, give Duffy some playing time but get the centre half pairing right, along with Baines and Coleman either side would be a very decent back four for several years to come. But of course you’re right, how much chance the other players being dropped.
I suppose as a follow up to my post, it is trying to find a balance with giving the younger players enough games to keep them interested whilst keeping the senior players happy, especially the likes of Hetinga who you want to try and keep at the club like we have Arteta and Pienaar.

Mark Stone, I would agree with your points as well. Villa and Spurs have been there or there abouts for the last couple of seasons. Given that they have have had less injuries this season and I suppose it was only a matter of time before one or both of them outdid us over the course of a season. The fact that it has come in part on the back of some poor performances from us is galling none the less. But definitely, finishing below Fulham or Birmingham would be horrible.
Mike Elbey
8   Posted 28/02/2010 at 17:05:45

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Agree Glen. If we do nothing else this summer it should be to sign Donovan and get Pienaar on a long term contract.

I would be quite happy to start next season with the current squad plus a couple of free transfers (Beckford and Ledley ?) and maybe some loans towards the end of August.
Mike Oates
9   Posted 28/02/2010 at 17:11:31

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I still dont believe Moyes knows what his best team, formation is . He knows that Howard, Hibbert, Neville , Heitinga, Distin, Jags,Baines, Arteta, Osman, Pinnear, Cahill, Fellaini, Saha and Rodwell ,can actually deliver Premiership performances. What he doesn’t know if Coleman, Yobo , Senderos, Duffy, Billy, Gosling , Anichebe, Vaughan , Baxter , Yakubu can still deliver Premiership quality . That’s a hell of a lot of players to give playing time to .
I still feel that Moyes has to demonstrate to the top list that he actually has a pool of 18-20 players or so he can rotate (that’s what you need to do in today’s game) with little effect on the quality. They will want that assurance, particularly Pinnear, and I suspect Fellaini and Heitinga. To do that he has to balance the issue of finding his best team and formation as well as introducing and giving time to Billy,Coleman, Yak, Gosling and Anichebe . I suspect Yobo,Senderos, Baxter, Vaughan will be allowed to leave.
Mike Elbey
10   Posted 28/02/2010 at 17:31:45

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Mike, I reckon our best team is pretty obvious with all fit and Donovan signed up -

Howard
Neville / Coleman
Heitings
Jagielka
Baines
Donovan
Arteta
Fellaini
Pienaar
Cahill
Saha

The problem is this poses a couple of problems for Moyes.

1. We never have everyone fit.

2. The above team means him leaving out the likes of Osman and Hibbert and possibly Neville if you were to side with Coleman. This he will not do.

Moyes will always go with a player who offers defensive qualities and workrate as opposed to a gifted attacking player.

This isnt meant as a rant at Moyes, its just fact. I should also applaud him for improving the team dramatically during his tenure as manager.
Guy Hastings
11   Posted 28/02/2010 at 17:43:08

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Whatever he does it should be with a view to getting PN on the player/coaching staff; offloading the Yak and Big Vic and getting a decent quick forward in; deciding what Bily’s best position is (I think there’s talent there, it’s just got to be applied correctly); sticking Jags next to JH on a permanent basis - but as I posted earler, I think it’ll be Jags and Distin against Hull with JH just in front. Hope I’m wrong.
John Smith
12   Posted 28/02/2010 at 17:39:24

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It might sound odd, but I really, really don’t want to see us in Europe again, at least for the near future.

I don’t think I can handle the embarassment anymore to be honest.

The above means, in my opinion this season is pretty much wrote off.

Next season I’d like us to forget Europe and try and bring some domestic silverware back to Goodison, you’ve all heard the saying "creep before you can crawl" and at the moment Everton are trying to run before we can even walk.

We haven’t had domestic success for nearly 16 years, yet we try and take on some of Europe’s biggest and most experienced Clubs to try and win the UEFA Cup, it’s ridiculous.
Mike Green
13   Posted 28/02/2010 at 17:53:22

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Guy Hastings - spot on.

My only resevation is If Pip does go who’s going to lead the team on the pitch? Mikel is the obvious candidate but dont think he’s vocal enough, that type.

We could do a lot worse than getting Jags up to fitness and giving it to him - did you see some of the tackles he put in today, throwing himself on the line? Brilliant.

Coleman - Jags - JH - Baines

Now that sounds like a brillaint back 4 for the future.

Fellaini - Pienaar - Arteta in the middle plus a quality right winger

Cahill to play in and out , here and there with Saha and A N Other - a quality, quick, sharp, young forward we can bring on to be a world class forward. Not JV or VA, they’ve got to go. Someone else, I dont know who, he must be out there though.
Tom Bowers
14   Posted 28/02/2010 at 18:14:20

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Yes, let’s get the young guys the experience they need .It has been a Jekyll and Hyde season and the injuries have been a big factor but apart from 4 or 5 games we have been rather poor.I am really concerned that this squad can perform so badly when they can show so much against Arsenal,Manure and Chelski in recent weeks? Where was the inspiration and motivation when it was required and who was to blame when it was absent? -Moyes or the Captain or both.Maybe we have to admit that most of these players are just not good enough to play 2 or 3 good games on the bounce?
Nothing to play for now but pride but don’t expect things to change much with Moyes.
Wayne Smyth
15   Posted 28/02/2010 at 18:14:25

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I think neville’s performances recently have been awful; especially in lisbon. He should be dropped and coleman should be given a run. Jags seemed to steady the ship somewhat in lisbon and although we conceeded all the goals while he was on the pitch, we actually played much better than before he came on, so I’d probably give him the captains armband.

We should also bin the 4-5-1 formation and be a lot more positive with 2 up front. 4-5-1 is great when it works, but I think it has far too often got turned into 9-0-1, with players unsure who they’re meant to be picking up and with us unable to get out of our own half due to having no ability to hold the ball up when its cleared.

There is only one thing worse than losing a game, and thats losing a game you never had any ambition to win. I think Moyes should release the shackles somewhat and start experimenting with more positive formations and tactics for the remainder of the season. Give some younger players a chance to get experience. We have a relatively easy run in and nothing to fear from any team other than perhaps villa away.
Danny Mann
16   Posted 28/02/2010 at 18:21:15

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We’re close to having a quality team who can compete with the rest, but we must accept that we need at least one more new striker.
Yes, JV and VA , along with the Yak, all need to move on, and I also support the idea of Neville going on to the coaching staff.Yobo, Senderos and Distain are not solid, or reliable enough and,much as I like Howard, we need some decent competition in the nets too. Let the youngsterskeep coming through as part of the squad and, we can begin to believe again.
Mitchell Wilton
17   Posted 28/02/2010 at 22:41:01

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I think we can all pick a decent starting line up for Everton, when the team is fully fit we aren’t half bad.

My problem is that watching that first half rubbish last night (I’m from Oz and stayed up for a late night/early morning match even with work only 5.5 hrs after full time) the performance of Anichibe and Yakubu was disgraceful.

Removing our first choice team and few hanger ons (Rodwell, Bilyaletdinov, Gosling), the rest of our squad are either kids, second rate, or in the case on anichibe second rate kids!

I believe we should jettison these players and bring in someone with promise:


Yobo
Yakubu
Anichibe (not targeting Nigerians here, honest)
Hibert
Vaughan
Senderos (going to happen soon anyway)

As for bringing in players, i think its fairly obvious a back up or two for saha is on the cards, any suggestions
Jimmy Crack
18   Posted 01/03/2010 at 00:29:59

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Reckon Maradona could still do a job up front. Sell a lot of jerseys, too.
Timothy Sebastian
19   Posted 01/03/2010 at 00:41:25

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With Villa losing the League Cup, our chances of getting into Europe next season looks even dimmer. If Villa had won, it would have open up an additional spot for the EPL, since Man Utd would qualify for the Champions League based on their top 4 finish. So it looks like we need to get 7th place, minimum, if we want to have any chance of getting into Europe next season.
Dermot Ryan
20   Posted 01/03/2010 at 02:36:01

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1. I agree with those who think it will be a blessing in disguise if we don’t get into europa next year. I don’t even consider that "europe." Its crap.

2. The fact that he’s our captain doesn’t make him good. Neville is just not good enough. Shouting isn’t leadership and it isn’t good football. He doesn’t bring anything to the team (no tackling ability, no speed, no vision, no passing, no crossing...)
Wayne Smyth
21   Posted 01/03/2010 at 03:40:03

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I actually think Yakubu did ok, even before his goal. He was isolated for much of the match and given nothing but scraps to feed on.

Vic hasn’t played football since last year, so he isn’t match sharp. If we had a fully fit team, he may not even be on the bench. You can’t really judge him because of that reason alone. Aside from that he was played again out of position on the wings because we have to play 4-5-1 until we’re at least 2 goals down!

The issues with our performances in lisbon and spurs come from other areas of the team than just up front. I think players like neville are more culpable than our forwards. He just isn’t positive enough, continually passing back to the goalkeeper when given any chance, or giving it to the opposition. This makes all the players nervy. We need a captain who is both vocal and a good footballing role model on the pitch. Someone who sets a positive tone like Jags, Heitinga or Pienaar.
Lee Gorre
22   Posted 01/03/2010 at 04:02:12

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What impact would not getting into Europe have on keeping certain players next season (particularly Pinnear) or attracting new players to the club?

I cannot believe anyone ever thinks its a good idea not to qualify for Europe. We have had a good run in the competition before and its a learning curve. To me, Moyes has not yet got the tactical know how in those games but you don’t get that by not being in the competition.

As for giving young players a chance, give me a break. We need to get our best team on the pitch as regularly as possible with an eye on next season and starting from the first game rather than in mid December. 7th may still be good enough for Europe and so we need to put Fulham & Birmingham out of sight first and then look at trying to catch one of the group going for 4th, all of which are no great shakes and can have a bad run. Plus finishing as high as possible in the league pays out more money than trying out various youngsters and formations and and then finishing 10th or 11th would.
Mike Elbey
23   Posted 01/03/2010 at 04:30:39

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Timothy, Villa not winning was the best result for us. Man Utd will definately qualify for the CL and as such the european spot gained through the league cup will now go to league placing. If Villa had won then they would have been guaranteed europr and yet they are surely one of the teams we are trying to inish ahead of ?

Our best scenario was Man U winning league cup (done) and Chelsea playing Tottenham in the final of the FAC as both these sides are likely to both finish ahead of us and finish in the top 6, as such the european places would go down to 7th.
Anthony Millington
24   Posted 01/03/2010 at 05:02:40

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The priority has got to be to finish as high as possible and I think the likes of Rodwell and Gosling will get games, because of Fellaini’s injury and Donovan’s loan runs out soon too. I would like to see Coleman given more of a chance, but I don’t think Duffy should play just yet because we’ve got a whole host of centre backs above him in the pecking order at the moment.
Jason Lam
25   Posted 01/03/2010 at 05:22:04

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I don’t think Moyes will give up until it’s mathematically impossible to atain UEFA. So we’ll see patched up sides with players playing out of position on the ’tried and tested’. Short-term mentality.

I agree with poster 4 that we should start preparing for next season by pairing Jags and Johnny in CB, with Arteta in front of them. This should be our long-term cornerstone, even if it takes a few games and results to smooth it out. COYB
Antony Matthews
26   Posted 01/03/2010 at 05:42:24

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If we dont qualify for Europe by finishing 7th, DM will probably think about joining the intertoto if its still going. Maybe Coleman and a few of the kids will get some European experience that way. It could get everyone fit for next season instead of swanning off to the USA and starting appallingly in the Premiership.
Andrew Ellams
27   Posted 01/03/2010 at 06:02:53

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Antony, the Intertoto Cup no longer exists, but I do believe our squad would benefit from playing some decent European opposition in the close season instead of jetting of to play second rate MLS sides. How come we never get invited to play in these tournaments that Sky show every summer?

I think Moyes should maybe write the season off and blood some youngsters on and off over the next few weeks. A year outside Europe might do our squad some good, particularly post World Cup
Gerard Carey
28   Posted 01/03/2010 at 06:15:02

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Better off without europa next season, concentrate on league. Hit the ground running for a change. Have transfers/loans sorted early and not when new season is started
Dave Whitwell
29   Posted 01/03/2010 at 06:35:36

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Put pretty simply finish as high as we can whilst making sure we don’t sustain any more long-term injuries.

Arteta/Yak & Jags need to be given as much game time as possible.

Maybe give Cahill a bit of a rest and try YAK & SAHA together a bit more.
Jamie Barlow
30   Posted 01/03/2010 at 07:26:14

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I’m with you on this John Smith. I don’t want to get back in the Europa Cup again next year. I don’t travel abroad without the missus and the kids so it makes no difference to me. It does my head in. I hate 5 o’clock kick offs. I hate it when we play on Thursdays and i’m sick of being embarassed by the shite style of football we attempt to play. We played two fantastic games last month against the two top teams and we pressed and passed and moved. It was good to watch and we got our just deserts. Then we play Lisbon and try to play all continental and get fuckin mullered. Its shite. Anyway, being from Manchester and the majority of my friends and family being City and Man Utd fans, the highlights of this season, apart from Jags and Arteta coming back are beating both teams quite convincingly. Sad isn’t it? Whats even worse is that my missus has just text me to tell me that she’s just recieved an email from Everton Football Club informing her of the new DVD ’NOTHING BUT THE BEST’. Our wins against Man Utd and Chelsea. Un-fuckin-believable.
Craig Taylor
31   Posted 01/03/2010 at 08:30:51

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For me Nevilles best position is as the holding midfield player.

So with no fellaini, Neville should hold, and Coleman should be given a chance. thus allowing JH and jags at the back.

If Neville was ever dropped then Jags is next inline for the armband for me.

Yesterday he came on, and he organised the Defence which was the basis for our improvement.
Steven Astley
32   Posted 01/03/2010 at 08:40:59

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Jamie, whats wrong with releasing that DVD?

People moan on about the marketing at Everton being shite, well, whats wrong with them trying to use some initiative for a change and capitalise on the back of 2 excellent results?

Won’t you ever want to re-watch those games and remind yourself how well we played?
Paddy Francis
33   Posted 01/03/2010 at 09:59:40

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I just got emailed this by some RS n*bheads at work:
http://evertondirect.evertonfc.com/stores/everton/products/product_details.aspx?pid=73150

Do we have to make ourselves such easy targets?! - I know they were great wins but we also lost the derby and got ko’d from Europe in Feb.
Steven Astley
34   Posted 01/03/2010 at 10:32:26

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Paddy, once again, see my comment above.

What is wrong with releasing something like this?
Paddy Francis
35   Posted 01/03/2010 at 10:35:08

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Steven, I know where you’re coming from - great wins, both of them.

But, we’re meant to be challenging for a top 6 finish at least. We came 5th last year and reached the cup final.

Don’t you think it makes us appear to have a "small club mentality" to release a DVD of 2 home wins in February ,regardless of who they are against?

Quite rightly, Manure and Chelski fans might say we don’t need to make DVDs of the times they’ve punned us.

It’s a question of image, and of wider ambition.
Dan Brierley
36   Posted 01/03/2010 at 11:37:33

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Call me old fashioned, but don’t young players earn their stripes in the reserves and training first? And if they play well there, the get the 1st team call ups?

Coleman has looked good at going forward in the games we have seen him play in. But how good a defender is he? As much as it is a delight to see full backs going forward and supporting attacks, your bread and butter is at the back. This might be a reason Moyes is not considering him yet.
David Holroyd
37   Posted 01/03/2010 at 13:00:00

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We need to get more winners in the team. Moyes did a good job in getting Phill Neville but we need to get players who have won something. We need to be in Europe. IT always takes teams four or fives goes to get used to it Sporting have played in Europe for years we cant go back to the small mentality of thinking the League Cup is better than being in Europe We missed Tim Cahill AND Fellainis presence against Spurs
Eugene Ruane
38   Posted 01/03/2010 at 16:50:39

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European football is a must. We may not have set the continent aflame with our performances, but if progression is a step-by-step (and it is) then Europa is definitely one of those steps. A step backwards will be NOT qualifying. Can I add that the ’point’ being made (along the lines) of - "If we’re not distracted with this, we’ll do this" is about as daft as I’ve ever heard. Talk about wishful thinking. Why don’t we just pack in playing completely, we’ll never lose again.

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