The Mail Bag
Captain terrible
Comments (55)
This is not a knee jerk reaction, this is not a slagging match of one of our players, this is about a leader who fails to lead.
Today's performance from our captain was an absolute shambles, I'll challenge anyone to disagree with these pointers that I will mention below:
1. Phil has no pace whatsoever
2. His passing for an ex Man Utd player is shocking to say the least
3. Tackling Phil likes to dive in at any opportunity giving away needless free kicks
4. Attacking full-back? Couldn't cross his legs
5. Awarness? Always get caught out of position
6. Leader? Maybe off the pitch, but on it he can be a major weak link.
Well there you have it, these comments are not based on just today's performance, it's Phil Neville week-in, week-out. Today, Phil had all the space in the world and didn't make one good cross, will he ever score from right back? NO!
Either give Coleman a chance or buy a right back in the summer; either way, if Neville is still in the first team next season, it will be nothing less than criminal by Moyes.
Sean McKenna, Posted 04/04/2010 at 19:34:36
Comments
Note: the following content is not moderated or vetted by the site owners at the time of submission. Comments are the responsibility of the poster. Disclaimer
If you're looking for a scapegoat then how about the following players:-
Bilyaletdinov — Despite his goal, Bily was hardly in the game. He doesn't work very hard and tends to drift in and out of games.
Saha — Undoubtedly a gifted player but once again today he looked uninterested. Didn't cause West Ham a single problem that I can remember.
Cahill — Did great to set up Bily for the goal but another player who failed to cause any problems for West Ham. Sure he works hard but he's playing as a second striker and needs to get more goals. Even a couple of shots on target would be a start.
Neville really had a poor game today and I have said for many a week that he is consistently poor.
David Moyes. Two Time Winner Of The Laeague Managers' Association Manager of The Year. The only manager to break into the Top 4. A manager who has brought European football to Goodison regulary and finished Best Of The Rest 2 years running.
Moyes recently said Neville is one of the Top 5 players of his managerial career.
Other the other hand we have Trevor Williams. A guy who watches the games.
He says Neville is consistantly poor.
Sorry Trevor but I'm going to have to go with David Moyes on this one.
With some people it's always either heaven or hell, idiot or genious. No averages.
Also, Phil maybe doesn't hit as many good crosses, but at least he defends them at the other end. I'm a big fan of Baines, but he couldn't stop a cross to save his life and a left back should really be able to defend.
200 Appearances for EFC and I can recall one good performance. Terrible. The sooner he retires the better.
Dick Anderson, are you actually Phil Neville? It's OK, you can come clean — we won't think less of you.
What us fans believe is that, if we could have a right hand side as good as our left, we would have a real chance to crack the so-called elite. And the fact, Dick, that Moyes picks Neville week-in, week-out, regardless of form, really gets up my nose.
Where was Osman the whole game. Literally, I never saw him. Bily was hauled off and I actually saw him tracking back and getting neat touches in. When he went off we switched off on a day where Pienaar was misplacing passes left and right too.
It was a team failure. And a team that doesn't deserve Europe.
Overall though, I think the time has come for the captain's armband to be passed on. We have the notion of the 'club captain' here in England which I think is now Phil's status. Its basically a guy who's a solid pro and experienced, worth something off the pitch but not actually worth his place in the team. Next season has to be Coleman at right back (I wouldn't spend our meagre budget on a position where we have three players) with the armband going to either Heitinga or preferably Jagielka.
We also need a threat down the right side of midfield, Donovan if possible, Eagles, Bentley maybe, there are a few options around. I'd also replace Cahill in the starting XI with someone with a bit more craft and guile, not sure who that'd be on our budget though. Cahill would still be very much involved at the club and in the squad though.
The problem is when other teams press us and get men behind the ball we havent got a clue.
Apart from Arteta and Pienaar (Who Zola had already sussed out and put 2 men on him) we have no brains in the side at all.
Determination only gets you so far and I'm afraid that for all the recent euphoria we are only a good side with our best 11 out.
Down to Villa next a watershed moment for both clubs IMO.
Moyes will show us how much he's learned next season! If Neville is still an automatic starter then we're up Shit Creek without a paddle.
Have we even signed 5 players since Moyes arrived? Maybe thats why Neville is in that short list.
He's done well for us this season but disgraceful performance today but I also thought it was a spineless performance from Bily and Osman. You have to give West Ham credit though. They pressured us well and although they didn't create much they made it hard for us to play football and took their chances.
Christopher Kelly: "Have we even signed 5 players since Moyes has arrived?"
That's a joke, right? Moyes has an astonishing record in terms of signings. Absolutely stellar. Challenge you to name one manager who has signed more class players for less money OR who has a better ratio of great vs crap purchases (every manager buys lots of duds. SAF, Wenger... everyone). Unless, this is a comment on how little money the club has provided for Moyes to buy players with... If so, I'm in agreement.
I prefer to blame our so-called match winning players. Neville is a right back, he did a fairly decent job.
I blame Tim Cahill, Luis Saha and Bilyletdinov. They are the match winners. They are the players who should be pissing all over teams like West Ham.
Half arsed performances from Cahill, Saha and Bily are the real reason Everton failed to beat West Ham. It's the attacking creative match winning players who are to blame, not the right back.
a) We've been without a proper right winger;
b) And without a ball-playing midfielder aka Fellaini or Arteta
It just highlights our requirement to fill those positions over the break.
I've mentioned Victor Obinna (on loan in Spain from Inter I think). Fast strong goalscoring right flanker; as well as Ever Banega from Valencia. An Argentinian whose combative style and an eye for a pass is somewhere between Arteta and Edgar Davids.
Usual problem though... money!!
Hibbert is a joke, Osman had good skills but doesn't seem to have the energy and drive or consistency week-in and week-out... and people see Neville as a weak link, particularly growing forward.
I would say Jags is as weak a distributor as Neville but that's were the comparison stops. Jags is resolute, has real purpose when winning the ball, is quick, reads the game well and leads by example by his quality on hthe pitch. Neville seems a good guy, seems a good leader on the pitch but I don't think it's good enough to be an automatic choice.
Again, we've moved on in and have a better footballers now and a new RB (or Coleman if he's good enough) is required.
Just before their 1st goal, Baines did one of the worst pieces of defending I have ever seen. With a schoolboy-like jump with his back turned to stop a cross before it had been played, allowing an easy cross to come in. Osman, Billy, Saha & Cahill were awful too.
It was a poor all-round performance but we've had more poor performances this season than good so why don't we blame what we usually blame? Injuries.
If we have top four pretensions next season then we had better find a right back. I don't even understand how Neville is preferred to Hibbert.
Cahill did not add enough of a threat today. "King Louis" went missing for most of the game. Pienaar had his worst game in a while. Osman was poor. Even Johnny was off colour.
A lot of people say Bily would be a lot better if he didn't have Neville behind him, but they fail to point out that whilst Billy scored today he consistently failed to track back and provide cover for Phil.
The real reasons we failed to win today, one: Arteta was out... and two: West Ham put in a once-in-a-lifetime cross for their equaliser.
Yes, Cahill was poor and Bily also, but — correct me if I'm wrong — didn't Cahill set up Bily's goal? Makes you sound a bit daft really.
As for Saha, shouldn't he have got a stone-wall penalty? Although he was poor throughout the game... The thing is, Dave, even when Cahill, Bily or Saha play bad, they still contribute; they can still change a game, whereas Neville offers nothing, even his throw-ins are the same — throw it as long and as hard as he can.
We got our eyes opened when Coleman came on against the Spuds, he showed us what a bit of pace and quality can do to a top 5 team. he changed that game on his own... if Neville could do half of what Coleman could do, I don't think we would be having this conversation, Dick.
I wonder... has Wayne Rooney ever been anyone's scapegoat?? Mikel Arteta? Jags? Bainesy?
Not looking good is it!!
Why would anyone want to have a go at someone who is doing a good job for the team? They wouldn't, would they? These 'scapegoats' are maybe unfairly targeted by punters SOMETIMES because of the poor performances they give MUCH of the time — it's not rocket science.
Neville is a good pro and has done a decent job for us but his time has to be up now.
If Moyes lines him up again at the start of next season, it will speak volumes for the ambition of our club and the ambition and judgement of our manager.
I put a list on another site earlier of players who have consistently proven themselves worthy of a first XI jersey at Everton and here it is:
Howard, Jagielka, Baines, Pienaar, Arteta, Heitinga.
6 players, that's it.
I'm not saying the rest are no use or that we should sell them all but it is a fair indicator of where we are falling down when 6 players are essentially carrying a side, with the help of one or two more from week to week whilst regularly taking 3 absolute passengers for a ride.
If we are serious, let's act serious. If not... then let's hold our hands up and stop pretending because, frankly, all this talk about 4th, 5th, 6th... even 7th now... it's fucking embarrassing.
We have the basis of a squad that can compete right at the top but some big decisions need taking this summer and I have to be honest now.... in David Moyes I have zero confidence that we have the man to take them.
I full expect the carthorse Neville to be lining up with the armband on the first day of next season.
Of course it was a joke. And I'm not having a dig at Moyes's track record. I'm making a joke at that comment. Truly ridiculous and reeks of defensiveness.
I don't think anyone is blaming Phil for the loss. He certainly didn't help things. And I don't think anyone is blaming Neville for being a shitty player. He can't help that. The blame should go to the manager who just can't seem to shake things up and put his "automatic starters" on the bench. I'm tired of this same old sentiment. Why won't Moyes just read some of these posts and try some new ideas??? GOD, HE'S LIKE A CAVEMAN!
1) Our rights side is laughably ineffectual compared to our left.
2) Our Captain is one of if not the worst footballers in our team at the moment.
He has done a great job in the past and always gives his all but the team has moved up in terms of footballing quality. We now try and pass it around and Phil Neville just can't play that way it seems.
Personally if I was Moyes i would recall Coleman to see if he could save me the £5m I would otherwise need to spend on a modern day right back.
1/ Why against a team like West Ham did we play a 4-5-1 with the Yak left on the bench from the start? The difference was so apparent when he came on. With Saha, twice the goal threat, and always gave their defence something to think about.
2/ Why on virtually every attack did we come inside to the centre of the pitch keeping everything bunched up and congested. Baines was doing this all afternoon and he not on his own. One of the only times he didn't then the Yak scores.
I've always had a lot of time for David Moyes but yesterday his tactics left an awful lot to be desired. Sad to say it was the same against Wolves and countless other games this season.
It does look now like we'll not qualify for Europe but with Everton, you can never tell from one game to the next.
Here are some "scapegoats" from our past. Harvey. Ball. Reid. Southall. Watson. Weir. Temple. Pickering. McKenzie (too fancy)... Even Alex Young has been slagged off from the terraces when he was past his best, as have all the players I have mentioned above. If it's one thing we can do at Goodison, it's slagging off our finest when they are either playing below par or getting old.
Just who WOULD you have to replace Moyes.
Are you serious? Exactly how do you know what Coleman can do?
You're talking about a guy who has never in his entire career played 90 minutes in the Premier League.
You're just guessing how Coleman would respond to playing regularly in the Premier League.
Neville had a poor game, but neither of the goals had anything to do with him though. If anyone wants to look again, the finger can be pointed directly at Pienaar and Rodwell (maybe Cahill) for their second. Why was Pienaar chasing down their centre back, why were Rodwell and Cahill so far forward when we didn't have the ball having just gone 2-1 up?
But let's blame Neville eh, it's much simpler.
Your talking about a right back.
Phil Neville is not holding Everton back. He's a right back. He has very little effect on Everton's game.
I still maintain you have to look at the more important players further up the field. Cahill, Osman, Bily, Yakubu and Saha. All of them vary in effectiveness from game to game.
Those players need to find consistency for Everton to truly become a great side. Stop blaming the right back.
Surely he couldn't be at fault for a goal??? We all love him, he's been brilliant this season.
No you're right , it was Phil Neville cost us 2 points....
Their second came down the eft and the crosser had no-one on him... but lets have a go at Neville hey, he's shit right so it must be his fault. No matter that Saha has decided to take it easy in case he has a chance of getting the World Cup, doesn't want to get injured before does he?
Cahill was poor, Jags' passing was diabolical; however, this is irrelevant because our right back can't put a decent cross in (unlike Bianes!!!.... don't make me laugh) so it's Neville's fault... blah blah blah!
The fact is, Neville is currently our best option at right back. The whole team were shite but Neville certainly wasn't the worst player. Your reaction seems to be a knee-jerk one or you just have it in for Neville.
"If we win every game til the end of the season we can....."
We throw a 2-goal lead away in pathetic fashion at Wolves
"well, but if we win the rest of them....."
0-0 at Birmingham, plenty of missed chances but no drive to win the game during the mid-section,
"yeah, but still...look at the other sides fixtures... if we NOW win the rest of them...."
West Ham at home, can;t buy a point anywhere, cue Davie Moyes's boys!!
I just wonder when some of you will wake up to reality and realise that we don't keep throwing these points away through bad luck.
It's in part down to your hero Moyes and the fact he is actually absolutely nowhere near the manager you think he is in reality — simply getting what more or less ANY decent manager would out of this group of players — and secondly down to the fact that some of the carthorses you repeatedly defend ARE actually shite, and they are not just being made 'scapegoats' at all.
It's a fool's paradise and I have to say... some of you are living the dream.
Personal failings agreed. There were many out there who lacked verve and inspiration, but that in the main is down to our manager.
I was one of the "if we can win all our remaining games" advocate but sadly I see the season now as concluded with a whimper.
Ffs get a grip! It's like one of the posters said Everton are moving on from the Nevilles and Osmans, good squad players but if we want fourth we need more quality, simple really.
It's the fact that Moyes NEVER drops his favorites, with nothing left to play for why doesn't Moyes change things round a bit? Try Bily in the hole, try Coleman... give him the last 5 games; drop Ossie and give Rodwell a run with Arteta?
It will never happen though.
Do you not remember what we were like when he took over (and what we were like for the previous preceeding years)?
Like I've said before it's the shame the club can't sack fans. You need a reality check.
Which is it??
It's so called fans like you that have knee jerk reactions when we don't win a game we expect to win. We had an off day yesterday end of.
Dick, this comment goes to show that you know very little about the modern game. Gone are the days when your right-back (or left-back) is just someone who defends. Just have a look at the effect that Baines has on the team when going forward. He has 8 assists this season, 7 more than Neville!!!!
I know Neville did not play right back in the final, but he is the same as Hibbert, totally commited, heart as big as a lion, won't give up, but completely lacking in the requirements for a top quality full back.
Just look at Gary Neville, in his time a top full back, now well past his sell-by date, ripped apart by Malouda on Saturday, just as Hibbert and Osman were in the final.
When Donovan played the right side we looked 50% better and Donovan is not a top player. We need to aquire a fast raiding right back (Coleman?) and a Peinaar type selfless right sided player, (I still cannot believe we did not attempt to sign Duff.)
We will not challenge for anything if we continue to channel all our attacks down our left side.
Strange to call people apologists for saying "if we win all our games..." surely that is an optimist. Would you rather we were saying "if we lose all our games" instead?
You didn't say "we hauled back a two goal lead against Spurs" which is equally the same as throwing one away at Brum.
Still some of us actually want to support the team and see them do well rather than run them down all the time. Apologies for that — shit that makes me an "apologist".
Yes since Neville has been back our fortunes have turned upwards, but surely his barking and orders can come from the bench? To put mildly his all round play has been pretty abysmal, and not to mention he has cost us goals (redshite and Chelsea). As previously stated within this thread, you cannot fault Neville for his effort, commitment and the way he is always willing to show for the ball, however it has become clearly evident our team has outgrown the thesis of being just battlers and giving 100%.
Personally I would like Moyes to take a significant risk in giving Coleman a go next season from the off - if he doesn't seem to be up to the grade then get a right back in before the end of August deadline.
COYB
The 100 Greatest Players of the 20th Century
32 Tony Hibbert
Add Your Comments
In order to post a comment to the MailBag, you need to be logged in as a registered user of the site.
Or Sign up as a ToffeeWeb Member — it's free, takes just a few minutes and will allow you to post your comments on articles and MailBag submissions across the site.
-sm.jpg)
-sm.jpg)
-sm.jpg)
1 Posted 04/04/2010 at 20:13:42
Report abuse