The Mail Bag
Champions League? You're havin' a laugh
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I've been looking on the site with some bewilderment over the last couple of weeks. People have actually been predicting the remaining results and have suggested that a Champions League place is possible. Seriously... they have.
After the Barcelona – Arsenal game, I suggested we might be a million miles away. I was wrong; for miles, substitute light years.
I believed that we were misguided to offer David Moyes his inflated contract. I still feel that way, and here's why: He lacks the guts to make tough decisions — he has favourites who aren't playing well enough but who will never be dropped.
He doesn't give young players a chance unless injuries force him to. Seamus Coleman could have made a world of difference last night, but the mind-boggling decision to send him on loan made that impossible.
We have dropped ridiculous points against poor sides and for these games the team seem to lack motivation. Yesterday was abysmal and, frankly, an insult to those who paid good money to watch it. West Ham wanted it more...
The last two summers have shown appalling mismanagement; why will this summer be any different?
We have witnessed some dreadful football over the last eight years and yet to suggest that it doesn't have to be this way brings a torrent of abuse.
Andy Crooks, Posted 05/04/2010 at 18:39:57
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Recent experience over the last couple of seaons suggests that as soon as we come across a team stronger than Dynamo Meerkats, we fall to bits. Anything going to change to alter that?
Now 4 points dropped against lesser sides and a Europa League spot is looking beyond us. No doubt there's a few more twists and turns to come in the next few weeks, but it seems as though our fate is tied to that of Mikel.... as far as Europe for next season goes.
And Coleman might have made a difference but it's unlikely, with the way the rest of them played, that an inexperienced full-back with a handful of senior games under his belt would've dragged the others through that.
Why didn't you post your amusement about a possible 4th place 2 weeks ago, perhaps after Everton beat Man City 2-0. FWIW I think had Arteta played last 2 games we probably would have won both rather than drawing both and, in so doing, be at least in with a shout of 4th.
Hindsight is bollocks.
Tom Neeson - spot on my man. To all the many haters out there - Our team is on the up and up so better get used to it. Moyes may not be perfect but he's still head and shoulders over 90% of the other gaffers in the Prem.
But overall this season how many times have we been hammered in the leaguea lá Benfica and certainly since November/December even the 3 losses in the league could've gone either way. A case for cautious optimism rather than the OTT negativity which is the norm on TW
Enough of this shit.
HE WAS MAULED BY BENFICA.
He hasn't even played 90 minutes in the Premiership yet some fans claim he's already better then Neville and Hibbert.
We are talking about a player whose career so far consists of playing in the Irish league.
Moyes watched Coleman in training. If he was that good don't you think Moyes would play him? Of course he would. Neville would be moved to midfield and Coleman would be starting.
The fact that Moyes sent Coleman out on loan suggests to me that he's not quite ready for the Premiership.
I'm going to wait and reserve judgement on Coleman. At least until I've watched him play a dozen games at Premiership level.
Until then your all just guessing about how good Coleman is.
We got exactly the same result as Barcelona at the Emirates. Exactly the same.
Moyes might be too conservative at times, but that doesn't mean he should have been making sweeping wholesale changes and then we definitely would have done better.
As for the points dropping, that's dealt with quite nicely on another thread. What about all the points we gain through having Moyes?
I still live in hope
Take 1 ex-binman, a teenager from Burnley, a Lpool reserve, 2 old crocks with dodgy knees...
I think there have been a couple of over-excited people on here talking about 4th place this season, which is of course out of reach (even if we'd beaten Wolves and West Ham). It is looking unlikely that we'll be anywhere other than 8th, but Europa is still possible if Villa slip.
What on earth are you talking about "witnessing dreadful football". We may have come down to earth a bit on Sunday, but over the last few weeks Everton have been playing some of the best football we've seen from a team in royal blue for many many years. Yes we've dropped some points against poorer sides : so have Chelsea, Man Utd and everyone else. There are no guaranteed wins in the Premiership. This doesn't detract from what Moyes has achieved. Last season he brought an amazing turnaround in the 2nd half of the season to finish 5th; this season he's brought about a similar transformation. If you look at points accumulated since Christmas Day, Everton are in 4th place, only 4 points off first.
Moyes has to take some responsibility for the poor starts that we've had the last couple of seasons. But I think the assumption that getting our transfers sorted out at the end of the summer transfer window is evidence of mismanagement to be misplaced. Because of our financial situation, we have to look toward loan deals. But it's hard to find players available on loan who would improve an already strong squad, and their clubs aren't likely to let them go until they've more or less finished their own transfer dealings and know how their squad is shaping up.
I don't see how we can ever finish 4th unless we get investment from somewhere, I know it's the same old story but it is true. We can always challenge for 4th as we will do next summer but that doesn't mean we'll finish 4th. With the likes of Birmingham and Sunderland improving and spending money each season out target in the next few years will be to maintain stability and remain a top of the table side.
If every time we don't play our best or drop 2 points brings a response like this, there is no hope for some people.
However, it seems to me, based on the hindsight of over forty years of occasional European forays, that it would lead to little on the continent other than the Europa.
On the whole, I agree with Kunal. Strive all we might; declare our unshakeable conviction that the group is good enough overcome all but the very best over the season. As it happens we're not: largely because we're in no fit financial position to have the players to cover for inevitable injuries; neither we do have the clout to compete for the best players, and as said so often, there's a point which sheer effort and determination can't get you past. Kudos to Moyes for producing better football at long last but don't let's kid ourselvs that the glorious dawn has arrived.
The best quote I heard after the game against the shite at Anfield, was ' They stopped us playing our passing game ' Had to chuckle at that one.
It is a team game and the players and manager will reach conclusions about who should or should not play.
They are the professionals and as supporters our job is to get behind them and provide as much encouragement as possible.
For some supporters to be even contemplating 4th is a dream based on the mediocre funding provided by "Blue?" Bill and his cronies but on current form even including West Ham and Wolves that is what we are i.e. fourth on current form since Xmas.
To have beaten City twice Chelsea and Man U (all deserved BTW) shows we are on the right road so to post nonsense like this after a disappointing result against West Ham is stupid.
A CL place is different to being Arsenal or Barcelona, so straight away this submission becomes a peice of crap.
Andy Crooks must definitely be his mate / relative as everytime something goes 'wrong' (drawing at home after winning the previous seven on the bounce... fucking disaster that) he is on here claimimg coleman is the answer. He did it before the Man Utd game, berating Moyes for not giving youth a chance. Rodwell and Gosling scored in a 3-1 win! Keep it up Andy.
Or H Kendall's third reign, when we had Mitch Ward and Carl Tiler stroking the ball around , looking for that slide rule pass to spring the offside and get Mikel Madar thru on goal to calmly lob the keeper. Again, I do not belive that is a valid comparison.
Yes we have played some shit football during the time of Moyes tenure, but I really do think that in the last couple of years, DM has really TRIED to build and develop a side that PASSES the ball, hence why he has got players of the likes of Pienaar and Johnny H, Fellaini etc.
I get really pissed at Moyes and our players some times for not doing what I percieve they should be doing, but unlike before when I would truly despair at some of the performances becuase I knew it was not going to get any better, now I know if we play badly it is because we are having a bad day, not because we are shit.
I think Moyes is still learning, and the team is learning but we are nearly there. Nearly. We have a good side now, who are TRYING to play it the right way. When this team have been on there game, they have bettered some of the best sides in the land, with panache and some slick passing football. Those performances were no accident.
Yes, you may say the Benfica, S Lisbon matches were bad as any we have seen from any Everton side, but at least they are good sides, and in Benfica's case a very very good side.
So yes I have a lot of hope for this side, and think with the team we have if we can keep it together and add one or two more, we will have a real chance of some silverware. I actually look forward to the matches now, Now that is something I would not have said ten years ago . COYB
Nick, you describe my post as a piece of crap without addressing any of the issues I raised.
Tom Neeson, you have provided the abuse which I thought would follow.
Alan Kirwin, I respect your views but I was never amused by Evertonians talk of a Champions League place, just surprised. I would suggest that you were as bemused as I was.
David Moyes has, in relation to his predecessors, had money to spend. He has built a decent squad but, in my honestly held view, he is not the man to take us forward.
however, i think we actually play a lot of football now, mostly on ground and i think we oer do it sometimes and should shoot on sight more.
i also think we have a briilant squad and genuinely believe we can break into top 4 next season and i've never thought that previously
Put your knives away.You deserve every bit of 'abuse' that you get for writing that load of bollocks.
And don't say 'tough decisions', makes you sound like Gordon Brown.
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1 Posted 06/04/2010 at 04:46:01
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We should have beat Arsenal and so should have Barcelona this season. Suggesting we are light years away is just silly. We could get into the Champions league next season... if we can keep our best players fit... get someone like Donovan in and find a striker.
If anything in football is for sure it is that it is unpredictable. Look at the Everton team that got 4th last time out. My point is made I think.