Agreed Eugene. It would be one piece of straw too much - there's no point in us just being a feeder club. However I'm feeling confident we'll get some good news on this matter soon. If he signs this new contract we should have him for at least a few more seasons if not forever, which would be an improvement on the last great talent to leave in his teens.

I also have been to a lot of home games courtesy of M. O' Leary so I sympathise with your plight. Chin up.

Oh Eugene... raw nerve.

Been there... done that... got the tee-shirt... wear it next to my flesh.. over my heart.

Sez just the one word:







Rooney




My last game at Goodison: 19 October 2002... Everton v Arsenal...

Remember the Name?

How can I ever forget it.

It's a good point, Eugene, and also a very interesting trend in this Moyes era. I've gone through phases where I started to think, why bother rooting for this team. I live in America, I get up at the ass crack of dawn to watch the games and all I watch is a team that continuously disappoints.

I don't know if selling Rodwell would do it for me though. Honestly I love Jack but I question where he will play with a fit Mikel and Felli. Also his price is so inflated since he is still seen as an excellent prospect. I wonder if maybe we could use money from him to buy a Donovan, or a Pienaar replacement, and partially fund a super striker.

On the flip side... Jack is no Rooney. He has a good head on his shoulders and I think he realizes he is not ready to play for one of those teams. And I think maybe just maybe he feels he owes us something. I think he'll stay and actually if you replace Cahill with Jack and play more of a 4-3-3 with two wingers(Pienaar? Donovan?) Mik and Fel with Jack... we might just have our team.

Selling Rodwell could put a halt to the club's progress over the past few years. It would send out the wrong signals to any potential signings.

If he pushes for a move though, there's little that can be done to keep him, especially with that tosser Stretford advising him.

No player is bigger then the club.

No straw could break the back of Everton because I support the club not the individuals.

To be honest I just support the 11 players in the shirts regardless.

I don't really care who the 11 players are. If Rodwell left, I would still support the 11 players.

Agents have a vested interest in players moving on. And players know their careers can end with one bad tackle, so they want to secure their financial futures whilst they can. In summary, there are forces at work in the modern game which make it more likely that players (anyone) will go. Did the Manure want to lose Ronaldo?

If a player decides to leave then all the club can do is try to get the most they can for them. We haven’t done too badly in this regard. The fee we got for Lescott was about £12 million more than his worth.

Until the Evertonian billionaire turns up (Waiting for Godot) or the overseas “investors” appear on the scene (whose motives we would all question), we should mentally prepare ourselves for the departure of any of our players for financial reasons.

Dick, I care because I hate settling for Mediocrity, as I'm sure you truly do.

Interesting post, and posters of a certain age ask the question, Will we ever be a big club again? Or have we become the 21st Century equivalent of Burnley? — a team with a glorious past and a great youth policy that became a feeder club for the big clubs (that at the time included us).

The way football is set up at present, it all comes down to finance, and we all know our Bill is working 24/7... for what exactly is unsure. But, even if we get the money and a sleek new ground, will increasing ground capacity help us? — or will it mean that we play our games in a half-empty stadium?

The lure of CL football is the carrot that keeps the Sky 4, as the exclusive club and it looks like only unlimited riches of a Man City that will challenge it, and even then will they have the universal appeal (and the merchandising) of the Sky 4? I doubt it.

So, to get back to the original question, I think that the straw's already been broken, and unless a financial implosion occurs, what we have now will be here for decades.

I don't think it will be. You move on and get over it.

If someone comes in with a stupid offer and that money improves the team then what's the harm? I don't think there is any. I think he has the potential to be very very good... however; I would not put my life on it like I would have done with Rooney.

Looking at it differently, I would be happier that we actually turn bids down and send a message to the other clubs and our own players that we are on the up and don't need to sell.

He is a player who, if he goes, he goes. Yes, I will be disappointed but, as with Rooney, his sale gave us some money to get players in and we became a team again, not a one man band like ManUre now have become.

Rodwell has potential, Rooney was already a star. It doesn't signal anything other than business if Rodwell is sold. He's hardley set the world alight if you truely look at his performances and not through Blue tinted glasses.

Yes, he looks like he could be a good one; however, he could be a Jeffers and I wouldn't stop supporting Everton just because we sold a player I liked... otherwise, I would have cancelled my season ticket after we sold Steve Watson.

I agree with Dick's sentiments, he is just a player after all.

Ok Dick, so we sell Rodwell and buy, say, Nolan or Smith or, God forbid, Barton. Then we sell Heitinga and play Senderos. And Coleman comes good so we sell him and stick with Neville...etc.

You'll still stick with "any eleven" simply because they wear Royal (or is it laser?) Blue and play at Goodison Park, or Kirkby...

Sorry, but like with Michael, the Rooney sale broke a big part of my Everton heart and it's not been the same since. Rodwell would take another big chunk and eventually I fear I would become resigned to being just another fan of just another club.

But hopefully it will never happen and Rodwell will stay and become an integral part of a team that has been built the proper way and make us proud again!

The Rooney affair still hurts because I believe in this country we've never produced anyone quite as good as him. The money we got, however, was used to improve the club and keep us in the Premier League.Lots of clubs didn't do as well as us, Leeds and Newcastle for example, or the Sheffield clubs. Some clubs never win anything.

I despise what the introduction of Sky has done to most of British football. Now we are expected to have a Champions League team as our major interest and a Premier League team as a hobby. It's a bit like having a favourite team in League 2 or a Scottish team just for interest.

Half of the teams in the Premier League have a goal of 40 points a season and are just cannon fodder for the Sky 4. The Champions League is also a rigged cartel. Against this background, it is the law of the jungle that you lose your best players.

I think it is a miracle we have the players we have now — especially when you see the state of the red shite squad. I just hope that, as money has made these teams, so money will also be their undoing.

It would be refreshing to see a young man show some real dedication and loyalty to the team who produced him but I wouldn't blame him for going to a club who showed more ambition. We have to prove to our best talent that we are as ambitious as our rivals.

We had to sell Rooney despite the outpouring of bile against the bloke. We don't have to sell Rodwell, if I am to believe what I am told. Therefore, I would become totally disillusioned with the club that has stated it is looking for investment with the aim of progressing, if it cashes in on another rare talent when it doesn't have to.

Of course, I would continue to support Everton but with no expectation whatsoever. What sort of future would that be?

Joey in the USA. Simply stop "rooting" for the Blues, it's a no-brainer really. Latch onto Chelski or the Manure, then you can wear a recognisable replica top in your sports bar of choice at the crack of dawn (lovely lass, by the way).

Everton break your fucking heart and they have been breaking mine for a large part of the last 50 years. My first game was a 4-0 home defeat by Wednesday in 1961. I was hooked! I could have supported the shite and counted the silverware but Everton is in me.

The club has been a constant in my life and, whilst I should like to see more open topped buses, so fucking what? I survived our selling Alan Ball and will survive Rodwell's departure.

We are Everton... if we don't win the CL never mind... we are still Everton. Some of you need to strap a pair on!

It might be worth noting that, despite Rooney being the best British player we have ever seen and Lescott being a very good player, the results of the the sales have been positive.

With a tweak or two to the current squad, I expect us to be top four next year. Would you have swapped Lescott for Heitinga? Probably not... but I bet you would not admit to that now.

I desperately hope we keep Rodwell but, if we don't, then the money would be spent on somebody else who may just prove to be as good for the squad.

I think economic realities may force us to sell Rodwell; none of us want this to happen, but it won't mean we stop supporting our beloved blues. There is too much silly money around thanks to Sky etc; until that cash flow stops then clubs wont have the resources to prise away our talent.

Are Man U a feeder club for selling Beckham, Van Nistelroy, Ronaldo? Likewise Henry, Petit, Viera, Overmars were all sold by the blind Frenchman.

Eugene,

Interesting question, and one myself and some of the lads who I've been going the match with for 25 years have recently discussed. Quite a few of us were in agreement that, should Rodwell be sold, then there is every chance that next season will be our last. (We've already renewed our season tickets for 10-11.)

There are a number of reasons for this, such as:

The rhetoric every year is the same prior to the summer, we'll keep the players we have, one or two quality additions early on... blah blah; however, the reality is quite different.

The very early deadline for season tickets (before this one has even finished) ensures that the club gets as many season ticket holders signed up as possible before hitting them with a farcical summer of disappointment and late deals.

I believe we are close to having a very good team; however, some of the current group are ageing... Rodwell, Coleman etc are the future of the club. Given the parlous state of our finances, we can't afford to buy young talent of this calibre, we need to develop them and get the benefit, not develop them for somebody else to benefit.

Selling Rodwell would be the final confirmation that we can no longer compete in real terms (and I don't just mean with the Sky 4), we are just pretending we can. The other so called 'challengers' will lose a top player (and make no mistake, Rodwell will be) once in a blue moon, this would be the second year running we are seen to 'cash in' in order to release funds for the manager. Whatever happened to the money we 'supposedly' had for the Sheff Utd lads prior to Lescott being sold?

For me it's all about aspirations, and selling Rodwell would confirm to me that the powers that be at Goodison aspire to remain on the periphary, whether that be due to a lack of vision, or a lack of ability to make the next step a reality.

So yes, it would be the final straw.

I am just cursed with an irrational love of Everton, I cannot leave and no matter how many times I am shit on I will always find myself wanting to come back. Damn you Everton!

Tony J. No matter how many times ....? You made me think of that quotation from Samuel Beckett: "Habit is the ballast that chains the dog to its vomit."

Mark Murphy

I supported Everton when they won the league.

I supported Everton when they fought relegation.

I supported Everton when they were 2-0 down to Wimbledon at Half Time and effectively relegation.

I supported Everton when Rooney scored his goal against Arsenal and when he left us for Man Utd.

I will support Everton no matter who plays in the team.

Rodwell to me is just another name. If he wants to go. Let him.

I support the team. The 11 players in the shirt.

Ive been wanting to say this for a long time. What does Rodwell actually do? Yes he is composed on the ball for his age but what else? We are led to believe that he is an up and coming centre half yet from what I can see he cant tackle nor can he head a ball and his positional sense is woeful at best. Then I look at his attacking attributes....yes he scored a cracker against man utd...but is that any more than Goslings goal against liverpool and has he done anything else? To be honest if someone offered £30 million I would cash in...and id be more concerned if a club was to come in for Fellaini/Arteta/Jagielka because there I see world class players. Just my opinion but evertons back may be stregnthened not broken by the sale of Rodders. Id love to know where people get the idea that this kid is world class? Maybe im missing something?

1. Que sera sera. It's life & business. Don't worry yourself about hyotheses. Waste of time.

2. He's said he wants to stay and is not tempted to go anywhere. He thinks he's at the right club. But even if that changes, que sera sera.

3. On what basis do you think a club that gets average gates of 35,000 and been in the top 4 of the league once in 22 years, should be able to keep all its best players?

It's one thing feeling emotional about EFC, what we'd love to achieve, how we like to play etc etc. But it's another thing entirely to imagine that players with a value in excess of £20m should be playing for us.

Only ManU, Chelsea, Liverpool & Man City have paid over £20m for a player. Arsenal haven't, Spurs haven;t, Villa haven't. When bigger clubs come calling & players want to go; they go. Even ManU couldn't hold on to Ronaldo. Arsenal couldn't keep Anelka & will lose Fabregas sooner or later.

Get used to it. Final straw? What nonsense. You cut your cloth accordingly. If & when we get back to the mountain top, on a regular basis, then maybe we have cause for more arrogance, as that's what it is. But even then, EFC's turnover, attendances & global appeal can't touch a ManU, or a Chelsea, or any other big European club.

Sorry, I simply don't get this misplaced sentimentality and expectation. If & when Rodwell does go it might enable Moyes to buy 2 or 3 excellent players from elsewhere. It's just a game, and a continuum. we move on.

The problem with Rodwell is that he has no position. People say he'll mature into a Centre Back but he's shown no hint of moving there anytime soon.

Rodwell can play as a defensive midfielder but not as good as Fellaini. Even Heitinga looks better then Rodwell in this role.

Rodwell has played as an attacking midfielder but despite a couple of goals it doesn't look natural to him. And we have Tim Cahill or Stevie Pienaar who are better in that role.

Rodwell is probably looking at a defensive midfield role in the long term but he may have to wait awhile for it. Fellaini is only 22 himself.

Strongly agree with the sentiments of Alan and Dick here...

Crazy to say selling a player will have an influence on our support.... and let me say as Michael said.. selling no player will have the same impact as when we sold Rooney....

Rodwell is a great talent... but it is not clear his best position... Fella is and in my opinion will be the best DFM we have as long as we can keep him... Rodwell is a few years less developed and I pray to see them both in their primes roaming in our midfield.... However Rodders will be competing with Arteta and Fella for a few years yet.... what a great thought.

I support everton no matter what, but it is a constant love hate relationship.

Rodwell has potential to be one of the players of his generation but only potential unlikely Rooney who was just head and shoulders above most players in the world even at 16/17.

I would hope, if we did sell them, we would get the truth as to why as opposed to bullshit. I don't see him going anywhere as yet.

Rooney = Beattie, Arteta, Pip, AJ and Lescott

AJ + McFadden = Fellaini

Lescott = Heitinga, Bily, Distin

If we do sell Rodwell, then it will be a sad day for Everton. I would love to see Fellaini, Arteta and Rodwell in the middle of our midfield until Arteta is replaced in 4 or 5 years. We'll see. If £30M is offered for Rodwell, then that may buy us our next Cahill, Lescott (without the mercenary streak hopefully), Arteta, Pienaar and Jagielka......

Sadly, seeing the sell-to-buy pre-requisite of the last 2 seasons, I can only see that continuing and who is our most saleable asset?

It's not OK, but it appears to be the reality of Everton right now.

What concerns me maybe even more is the fact that we have several important players reaching the last year or 2 of their peak sale price — Cahill, Yobo, Saha, soon Arteta, etc..... if we can't move on players a la Rooney and Lescott, where will we be in 4 or 5 years?

Dick, good for you! So did I! And then some!

I even spent a fortune watching the shite that was Billy Bingham and Walter Smith's teams! I lost count of the Saturday evenings I threw my scarf down in the hall and swore never again!

But it doesn't mean I have to accept mediocrity and follow blindly! Saying that, it's all mainly rhetoric and I'll die an Evertonian. Without seeing another league title if we sell the likes of Rodwell, but an Evertonian nonetheless!

Alan Kirwin, you say..

"I simply don't get this misplaced sentimentality and expectation".

You don't?

Well, try to imagine football WITHOUT it.

Because when you do, you'll find you're left with just one league...with three teams in it.

I'm serious - If you're not one of the big three and you adopt realistic expectations and non-sentimentality as philosophies, why bother following Everton?

And what do you say to supporters of Bury, or Doncaster - they shouldn't entertain misplaced sentimentality and expectation?

That they should accept they'll never win a carrot and the warm feelings they have for their local teams are stupid?

99% of the teams on the planet only exist because of the misplaced sentimentality and expectation of supporters.

Our expectations have already been lowered to 'we'll never win the league again'

They could soon be lowered to 'we'll never qualify for Europe again'

Where and when does it stop?

I actually believe it is unrealistic expectations from Everton supporters (well...some Everton supporters) that creates pressure on the club not to fall below a certain level.

(ok, maybe not enough pressure to get rid of bums like BK, but enough that they can't totally let things slide completely)

Anyway, you can Klingon it all you want - I'm staying Tribble.

"But it doesnt mean I have to accept mediocrity and follow blindly!"

What does that even mean? We accept what we have because it is what it is. No matter how much bitching and moaning I do it will never have an influence on whether a player, say for instance Donovan, can side foot home a ball from 2 yards away.

I pay my money every year because I follow Evertonl; that is it... blindly or any other way... and screaming for Moyes's/Hibbert's/Osman's head on here is about as useful as a lead parachute.

Tony,

It means I'll moan like fuck if we sell Rodwell.

But still be there the week later to glower at Alan Smith and wave my fist at BK!

Which bar did you work in in Magalluf?? I was down there in the mid 80's.

Alan McGuffog, no worries... that will not be happening. Two of my superiors are Liverpool fans... and sadly I know more players than they do. I wasn't saying I'd ever turn from the Blues but as in every addiction you sometimes question its necessity.

Tell me any Blue wasn't disillusioned this season before the derby. We developed the greatest squad we've had in years to finish lower than we have in seasons before. But I'll be checking ToffeeWeb everyday and up at 7AM or earlier, no worries about that, but questioning my insanity is something that is necessary every once in a while.

We must not sell Rodwell, simple as.

Why people try to compare him with Rooney is beyond me. Rooney is purely a one-off. Players of his ability only come along once in a lifetime.

Rodwell possesses great quality yet never gets picked because our manager is too fucking negative and would rather pick the likes of Leon Osman over him; even with Arteta and Fellaini injured, he still refuses to play Rodwell. Of course, who am I kidding? Moyes knows best.

Rodwell, however, is a certainty to go and then we will be back to Square One again. With that said, given the manager's stubbornness in refusing to play him, we wouldn't notice the kid had gone.

Joey, absolutely nothing wrong with insanity, as I was saying to Napolean only the other day.I have every confidence in your keeping the faith... just as I shall.

I love my fellow blues... we all go to the depths of despair but usually resurface. I have vowed never to set foot in Goodison on too many occasions in the past... most significantly after losing 3-0 to the RS in 1969. I dragged myself back and was rewarded with being there in May 1970.

Best wishes and regards to Dawn. At the end of the day, we can always blame everything on Hibbert.

Would we really miss Rodwell anyway?

Let's be honest he's not even a Top 5 Everton player.

If you made a list of Everton's best players it would look something like this:-

1. Arteta
2. Pienaar
3. Fellaini
4. Jagielka
5. Baines
6. Saha
7. Heitinga

I definately wouldn't say Rodwell is better then the seven players above.

I might put Rodwell in at No8 but its debatable because Yakubu, Osman and Cahill are still to be added to the list.

To be fair you could argue that Rodwell isn't amongst the Top 10 best Everton players.

Mark, worked in Magalluf from 96-98, Alex's Place Pub.

I was a blue last time we were relegated in 1950 and I well remember the Halcyon times in the 60s and 80s when league titles were won... BUT we ALWAYS broke up our trophy winning sides shortly after and never set up a winning sequence as Shankly did at Liverpool... consistency has never been a reality at Everton.

Now we supposedly have no money (?) and we are having team captains praising our current squad and telling everyone that we don't need to spend on additional players... Nev should be in politics because he certainly toes the party line as a disciple of Kenwright... perhaps he will end up looking after the finances at EFC.

Of course we need to strengthen our squad in the same way that other sides who finished mid table will do.

Our present squad is not large enough to get through injuries and suspensions which will occur and its no good signing the likes of Senderos as cover.

We need better acquisitions to supplement and improve our play... not just bench warmers.

I really hope that DM can manage to keep our younger squad members at EFC, but unfortunately they are the only ones worth buying like Rooney was.

A question to all, how much money have you won or lost betting with friends or the bookies on our games this season? I am running a loss this year. Spurs fans have taken some money this time because for the first time they have been on the radar. They have been very vocal this year and I had to front up losing twice. As the scum fans took money and the bookies for them games.

I'd like to re-introduce my suggestion of some weeks ago, that Rodwell be loaned out to LA Galaxy. He doesn't play much and is very young. It's impossible he's tired. Give him part of a season under Arena in LA. Arena develops talent. Always has. Galaxy would be perfect for the youngster's development and when MLS ends, it only mid-season EPL.

Again, he's so young and didn't play that much this season, he won't be tired on return. Just more game-experienced. And what he does possess in the way of talent, willpower etc? Arena will bring it out. Believe that. Plus, Donovan would absolutely ensure Rodwell was welcomed right by the fans.

So much of this discussion revolves around money and the European set-up that favors "Big" teams. EFC doesn't possess the money. That's that, then. Why not look at other avenues of talent development, establishing relationships, and making EFC an attractive team to stay with?

America really is a great place to visit. Wouldn't it benefit EFC to be able to tell youngsters, "Oh, you're not quite there yet. So, you'll have to play and live in America for a year or two". Like others here, I can't see the point in complaining about what you don't have; in this case, cash. There is a relentless negativity in here about the lack of it.

I'm suggesting that doing what no English club has done yet, loaning young talent to MLS, be started by Mr Moyes. In only a few more years, MLS will have to move to the European schedule. Everyone in MLS knows this, but must wait until the last 4-5 franchises have a "soccer-first or only" facility.

So for another (my guess) 5 years, we can send these youngsters out to play almost a full schedule of MLS and still be back for half of the EPL schedule. Start with Rodwell. Oh, and when he comes back, bring back Donovan with him.

It doesn't matter if Rodwell is in the top 5 best Everton players, it is his potential that matters. All I'll say is that if we sell him then it will define what type of club we are and we can then all get on with low expectations and just being Evertonians (best of the rest fans).

I would put my house on Ferguson paying whatever he has to to take Rodwell to Old Trafford in the Summer window and he'll see it as an absolute snip at £35 million. Giggs, Scholes and Neville are possibly in their last season, Hargreaves is injury-prone and Carrick threatens too be very good while never quite making it. He needs a Jack Rodwell potential desperately.

How many people actually stopped supporting the blues when Big Dunc was sold to the Geordies?

I have to say I'm with Dick, I'm not happy with mediocrity, I sometimes get mighty annoyed (keeping the language clean) with the board, manager and players. But I will always support the 11 players on the pitch, as long as they play for the shirt.

Haha, Dick, that's an awful argument. You could think it the other way that as an 18-year-old Rodwell is in the top 10 of our best players? That's a fantastic acheivement for a player that young for an established top 8 Premier League club.

His potential is massive — simple as. Nowhere near good as Rooney but still massive. I also think we will sell him, but not now. The only way we won't is if we turn into a top 4 club within 2 or 3 years. If not, we will get £30-35 million for him.

Sad but true, we are just not a top 4 club.

Rooney, Rodwell, Everton 2004 and Everton 2010.

Different, different, different and different.

The slings and arrows of outragious fortune.

If R and R came upon the scene in reverse order...sigh.