The Mail Bag
Coleman's First Real Test
Comments (44)
Since Seamus Coleman joined Blackpool on loan there has been a huge amount of moaning from fans that he should be playing for Everton regulary.
On this very web-site Coleman gets his own mail bag submission after every single game he plays (nobody bothers with James Vaughan because most are now accepting that he's rubbish).
When Blackpool beat Swamsea Coleman got his mail bag thread. When Coleman scored his first goal for Blackpool, another mail bag thread.
And in all these mail bag threads the general opinion is that Coleman's ready for the Premiership. He's better then Neville. He is the player Everton need to crack the Top 4.
Well in the interest of fairness I believe Coleman should have another mailbag thread after his game today.
Today Coleman had his first real test. Newcastle are the only side in the Championship approaching Premier League class. This was finally a chance to see Coleman playing at a half way decent level. So how did he do?
Newcastle 4 - 1 Blackpool
Oh dear. Four goals conceded. Are we still sure he's ready for the Premier League?
Look I'm not against the lad. I like him. I think he'll have a great Everton career and eventually be a regular starter.
I just hate that some people have heard he's had a few good games in the Championship and immediately declared him better then our skipper.
Personally I trust Moyes. If the manager think Neville is better at the moment then I'm happy for Coleman to go out on loan.
Hopefully Coleman will return a better player. Today's result does show that Coleman may not yet be ready for the highest quality.
Dick Anderson, Posted 10/04/2010 at 21:24:26
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And leave the team selection to Moyes.
Of course, by your "logic", Neville is responsible for the 6 - 1 drubbing by Arsenal, whereas, in fact, he looked no more clueless than he usually does.
Good luck with the IMWT mantra. Better luck with the logic.
All that and he STILL managed to score a goal.
The 'Reserves' , more like a youth development team, are not a good test. The CCC is the next level down / old Central League and an extended run there will do the lad no harm at all.
Better teams than Blackpool will get a tonking up in the Northeast when an in-form Newcstle get going.
Still, don't let the facts get in the way of a good hobbyhorse / whingefest, eh??
It's getting boring, Dick, change the record.
Perhaps an appraisal of the lad's performance against Guttierez may have helped your point? A reflection on the overall Blackpool perforamce, how they kept shape as a team, did his right winger offer cover? All kinds of factors.
I saw the match highlights on The Football League show and the first two Newcastle goals came from Coleman's flank, but it is hard to apportion individual blame when you can't see the rest of the team's shape and how that influenced decision-making in 5 seconds of TV footage.
Dick, you are a complete fucking WALLY!!
This post needed to be penned, the clamour to see young Seamus handed the right back slot has bordered on hysteria on these pages.
Every blue is aware of Hibbert's attacking limitations and Neville seems to be involved in a competition with his brother to see who can go downhill the quickest, so the desire to find a young marauding right back is understandable; hysterical calls to get a young unproven kid in isn't.
Dick's right, people have acted as if Coleman has been solely responsible every time Blackpool have won, yet now when they get hammered... he`s blameless.
The letter doesn't strike me as an " I told you so" — he`s an Evertonian, so he must want Coleman to be the player we all hope he is.
Lowering unfair expectations won't do Seamus any harm at all. The lads a relative late starter, perhaps people will now let him get on with learning his trade.
At least the post gave the editor an opportunity for yet another Moyes bashing rant.
Also, all that has been reported by others on here is that Coleman has been playing well for Blackpool, and the way Neville has been playing lately, ie, shite, then maybe the lad does deserve a go.
A very balanced view when you consider how many people have been saying that Blackpool's upturn in form is because of Coleman.
Newcastle 4 - Blackpool 1
"Oh dear, 4 goals conceded"
It doesn't state that he was part of a team that shipped 4.
Has anyone watched any of the Blackpool games, or are you basing your opinions on very small newspaper articles and Blackpool fan sites?
Moyes and his crew are watching every game he plays so I would say he has a good idea of how good a player he is.
I hope he comes good, but I do think the loan was a good idea.
oh and Michael "didn't trust him to get the team pumped up for a really strong finish this season, and he's failing to deliver as usual."
Did Moyes just get Manager of the Month for March? Ok 2 draws on the bounce, but were hardly limping to the finish line.
You don't always need to state things which reallly should be taken as a given.
Why cant you simply wake up to the fact that Moyes does make mistakes and that some of us are sick of the shite offered up by Neville for years! If Neville was playing well, no-one would be wanting him benched! And Coleman in.
You remind me of Boxer in Animal farm. "Moyes is always right". Now, before you list all Moyes's and Neville's accolades, just try and accept some of us want to see a better Everton without Neville.
Opinions are just that. Calm down people. We're all Evertonians here — and that should count for somthing at least.
There have been posts updating Coleman's progress after each Blackpool game since he went out on loan, so why not mention yesterday? I can't come out and say he was the worst player or best player on the pitch because I only saw brief highlights and a Newcastle-biased match report, but his ratings weren't great and on TV, two of the goals are down his side, so it wasn't his best game in a Blackpool shirt.
I am with Dave Smith on this, this is a forum/mailbag to express views, but we all want the same thing, so why should we be so abusive towards each other? Coleman is one for the future, and I'm sure it will be a great future.
Also, remember how Osman looked like a world beater at Derby when in the Championship? Look at the abuse he gets on this very site now.
Of course, Baines and the rest of the Everton regulars have had a season to prove their worth. Coleman will get his chance and then we'll find out whether or not he has got what it takes but I sympathise with those who are extolling his virtues at every turn because many are frustrated that a match-turning performance against Spurs was rewarded with just 20 minutes of first-team football since December.
I've seen him before he came to Everton and believe me he is quality. As Michael said we, after the loss of Donovan, are devoid of pace. Seamus Coleman could be playing wide midfield and driving us to European qualification.
As much as it might gall many people who post here, David Moyes is without doubt the best person to monitor Coleman's progression to eventually be what most of us believe the best Right Back since Shaggy Stevens. Unlike Michael Kenrick, I do trust Moye... far more than any wanabee Everton managers who lurk the interweb who see a player play 20 minutes and think they've just discovered the new Danny Alves!
There is no reason why we cannot swap Hibbert and Coleman at full back next season depending on who we are playing and what system. This is not going to happen because Neville is always going to start, no matter what; he is the manager's golden boy.
I am not saying that Coleman is ready for 90 mins now but, if he never plays, we will never know. Yes we are making judgements on what we have seen of Coleman so far... but that is only what I can judge Neville on — he is not good enough for Everton.
It's unthinkable really.
we need help on the right going forward and the answer is sitting on the bench... I just don't get it.
My point is the sarcasm clearly evident in the posting, "On this very web-site Coleman gets his own mail bag submission after every single game he plays".
Your comment as above, well where was the post again about Neville's captaincy when the team shipped six? I myself have posted I don't think defensively he is great, our best defender is Hibbert but both he and Neville are shite attacking as a wing back — something which the big boys use.
The comment about him not being a right winger from Dan Brierley; Dan can you tell me what position Dan Gosling played for when he was signed and I am sure his only appearance in defence was us getting humped by Benfica away. Cast your mind back to the 20 mins he played against Spurs and his beating his man several times and crossing from the byline, surely the trait of a winger or wing back?
Coleman is the first Everton right back to get me out of my seat since... well ever actually No GS never managed it. But this is getting out of hand: everywhere I go I hear Evertonians calling for his inclusion; everytime I switch a radio on, somebody is screaming for him to start — just look at TW's home page today, no less than FIVE headlines include Colemans name. The clamour to see coleman start is IMO even greater than it was to see Rooney and it's just not fair on the lad.
I haven't seen Seamus other than his dramatic cameos, so I will bow to your greater knowledge of him, but Moyse must see flaws that need ironing out in his game.
I detest the IMWT mantra, it smacks of not being able to think for yourself, but as far as this kid is concerned, I really don't see what other choice we have.
I've seen many a kid distroyed by being thrust into the big time before he was ready and I'm prepared to be patient.
I never said those words. You correctly quoted me stating that Dick doesn't blame Coleman for Blackpool's defeat. But I still don't see what that has to do with Neville?
It could just be me being thick here, so my apologies if i'm missing the obvious.
In regards to Neville and Hibbert being RB, and Everton needing RWB; I recently posted a mailbag thread addressing this issue. It never found it's way out into the open though. My point was that a RWB, with a RW would bring much needed balance to the team. But i also asked if Coleman was ready to fulfill the RWB role yet?
Coleman hasn't had much of a chance by Moyes, BUT what chance he has had, we got a point against Spurs we wouldn't have and we were heading to a FA Cup replay against Carlisle. Remember, Coleman hasn't had the 100s of games playing for Everton that the limited Neville & Hibbert have.
To suggest Moyes is wrong to send him out on loan and to claim he's better then Neville already is just silly in my book.
Too many people on here are quick to send in a message board thread everytime somebody says something good about Coleman.
And yet over the last few weeks Moyes has championed Neville, the national press have suggested an England recall and a few others have claimed Neville is a good player for Everton. But surprise surprise nobody bothers to create a message board thread.
My post wasn't to have a go at Coleman, I like the lad. Instead, I was just trying to be fair. If we are going to go mad on every good thing he does then we should also report on the not so great stuff.
My personal opinion on Coleman is that he's great going forward, but looked a bit short on defensive positional sense in the game I saw him play in Athens. That's got to be sorted before he's a starter for us in the Premier League so going out on loan makes sense.
Hopefully, these flaws are being ironed out at Blackpool's expense and not ours. He's one for next season perhaps as Neville goes into his 35th year during next season.
This isn't Coleman's fault though, I think it is just symptomatic of what we can all see when we've gone out onto the pitch for the last 3 season (at least): that we have stuff all threat down the right. Once we get a sniff of hope of some threat down that flank we're chomping at the bit for it.
Personally, sending him away to Blackpool, where he will have triumphs but also downers like the Newcastle result, will probably stand him in good stead for the Goodison stage. It is about seeing how he reacts to bad results, poor performances, mistakes etc. Perhaps getting some experience will steel him for what may come at Goodison; when we're down on a player we can be harsh, downright cruel even. If has a bad patch for us no doubt he'd kop the flak...
That thus assumed, It must come down to a headspace thing, that the end of the season / close season is the time to promote and demote and could then give Pip time to adjust to the new order of things.
IMWT-WHW (while he wins)
Coleman is getting a run in a pretty competitive league and not doing too bad. Any number of lower league players will sometimes only truely bloom once they get better players around them. So I wouldn't be too fussed right now.
But next season???
It would be to me a real bonus if Neville was promoted sideways and used as a liaison to the newbies in showing them, not so much this is how you play and this is what you do.
But being the model Pro he is, more like, this is what you don't do when playing, this is how you don't behave on tour, in training, in public, in private.
Putting, if at all possible what amounts to old heads / ideas on to young shoulders... yes you Jose Baxter!! Some won't listen but they then can't say they wearn't told.
Maybe you can tell but its seriously doing my head in the way people talk about Coleman being a possible right winger/midfielder because he's attacked from full back for c.110 mins in his entire Everton career. He'll probably be a good right back, that doesn't make him a winger, where he'd need pace, close control (at pace), tricks, dribbling ability, crossing ability, and lots of other things he's not shown us yet (and if he'd shown all that in training there's no way he'd be at Blackpool right now). What he's shown us in effort, endeavour and enthusiasm. Even in the short time he's been on the pitch a couple of heavy touches have been noticable. Dick's basic point, which as far as I can see is simply 'calm down' is spot on. Calm down.
People have rightly made the point that Neville has been piss poor for pretty much most of the season and perhaps given his poor run of form this might have opened the door to Coleman, a fairly logical deduction but nothing more. Where this nonsense comes from that Coleman is seen as the second coming I'll never know. Wise up.
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1 Posted 11/04/2010 at 05:10:17
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You say you trust Moyes. Well I don't. I didn't trust him to get the team pumped up for a really strong finish this season, and he's failing to deliver as usual — it's one of his regular weaknesses you can take to the bank, along with the tactical failures in Europe that have been laid bare on here far more succinctly by others. The decision to farm Coleman out at such a crucial time only underlined that.
Next season will be both a massive opportunity and a massive challenge. I'd like to think we have the squad and the manager to rise to it. But sadly in eight rollercoaster years all he's demonstrated is that he simply doesn't have what it takes. I hope I'm wrong.